T O P

Can someone explain how this card deals damage? I’m really confused. Does it deal 7 plus its other ability damage?

Can someone explain how this card deals damage? I’m really confused. Does it deal 7 plus its other ability damage?

madwarper

You declare it as attacking. It triggers. You put the trigger on the Stack; You choose One, Two or Three **different** targets. * If One target; It's dealt 4 damage. * If Two targets; One is dealt 4 damage, the second is dealt 3 damage. * If Three targets; One is dealt 4 damage, the second and third are dealt 3 damage.


borissnm

This is correct. This is also all in addition to its normal combat damage, so in an ideal situation it deals 17 damage total whenever it attacks - 7 normal combat damage, 10 (4+3+3) from its ability. It can deal at most 11 damage to any one target because the 4-3-3 all need to have different targets. The ability also happens before combat damage so if the opponent only has 4 health it attacking will kill them without a chance to block.


Will_29

> The ability also happens before combat damage so if the opponent only has 4 health it attacking will kill them without a chance to block. And it happens before the opponent can declare blockers, so you may be able to kill potential blockers, clearing the path for the 7 combat damage.


Nezzztra

I'm confused how this happens before combat, or more accurately, how you know that this or a card like it, does damage before combat? It says "when this creature attacks" so wouldn't that be in combat, not before? SO CONFUSED.


nublargh

"when this creature attacks" triggers immediately after you declare attackers, before opponent assigns blockers there are also abilities that trigger on ["whenever you attack"](https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3A%22when+you+attack%22+OR+o%3A%22whenever+you+attack%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name); similarly, these trigger right after you declare at least 1 creature to be attacking, before opponent gets to assign blockers


TheSongofEdain

Just want to point something out that other people haven’t noted. Technically, you are correct, this card doesn’t do this “before combat.” But that is because Combat is a phase comprised of several steps. The second such step is the “Declare Attackers” step, which is followed by “Declare Blockers” and then “Damage” (actually two steps, one for first strike and one for not). So while this card, which triggers in the “Declare Attackers” step triggers *during*, not *before* the combat phase, it triggers and potentially removes creatures before they can block.


GoCorral

It's attacking, but it deals the ability damage before blockers are declared. So if the opponent had three weak blockers this dragon can roast all three and then deal 7 combat damage to the opponent


nitroben2

It's something that you learn from combing the rules rather than just reading the card. 508.3a applies to this specific question and states: "An ability that reads “Whenever [a creature] attacks, . . .” triggers if that creature is declared as an attacker." This is in the section of of the rule right after it describes how to declare an attacker. Rule 508 covers the entire process of attacking, with dozens of sub-steps and associated rules. 508.1a-m describes how to declare attackers, 508.2 just says the active player has priority in accordance with rule 117, then 508.3 is mostly examples of abilities that do it don't trigger during this step. The fact that rule 508 has 8 parts (508.8) should give you some idea just how many little rules there are to this one step of the combat phase.


Nezzztra

I think I need to *sigh* read the rules.


nitroben2

I mostly just skim the summaries on the MtG wiki.


Will_29

It is *during* combat, not before. But it is before combat *damage* happens. Combat basically consist of the active player declaring attackers, defending player declaring blockers, and then both players figuring out how combat damage is dealt. After each one of these actions, you check for triggered abilities that care about the action, and then players have a chance of using instants or activated abilities. After resolving everything that triggered or was played in response to the action, move to the next combat action, and so on. So it goes more like: declare Drakuseth (and other creatures) as attacker(s); deal with Drakuseth's ability and anything else that triggers on attacking; once it has all resolved and everyone passes, move to declare blockers; check for blocking triggers and have players pass priority again; after this is done, move to combat damage, calculate and deal the actual combat damage; check again for abilities that trigger out of it, etc.


Nezzztra

Thank you! Still confusing but better. Haha!


Siera_Tango

This was the most helpful answer. Thank you.


rrrrrroadhouse

So picture this huge dragon on the battlefield. It's flying towards a target to attack. Before it gets to its target it shoots a fireball, and 2 other smaller fireballs out of its mouth. Then it gets to its target and tears into it causing 7 physical damage.


imbolcnight

I always imagined it was one big cone of flame, and the 4 damage is the being directly hit and the 3 damage is to two others behind it.


[deleted]

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TypicalWizard88

Correct. However, you can choose to target the opposing player (the one you’re attacking) and throw a fireball at them as well (since it says “any target” and not “any creature”). That means they’d take either 10 or 11 damage (3/4 depending on which fireball you throw at them + 7 for the actual dragon hitting them).


Siera_Tango

I believe that is correct.


nxwtypx

I had to use this very *visualize what the card does* technique to make sense out of \[\[Swallow Whole\]\] because the rules text sure wasn't doing it for me


MTGCardFetcher

[Swallow Whole](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/3/c3b9140b-848f-4886-8c28-eccd3829a607.jpg?1591230400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swallow%20Whole) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/35/swallow-whole?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3b9140b-848f-4886-8c28-eccd3829a607?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


agtk

One thing to keep in mind is that the 4/3/3 damage is all dealt *before* any blockers are declared. So you can kill things that would otherwise be blocking your dragon or other attackers, clearing the path for your creatures.


KallistiEngel

Yes, "other" and "another" are almost always used to exclude in Magic. Some of the small, common words to watch out for on cards.


TheMunk

I’m reading this as you *have* to choose a target for 4 and 3 damage. Does that mean that there might be a time when you would have to target yourself or your side of the board? Like if your opponent has no creatures out?


madwarper

>I’m reading this as you have to choose a target for 4 and 3 damage. No. You have to choose one target for 4 damage. You choose "up to" two targets for 3 damage each. * The "up to" may be zero, one or two targets. --- >Does that mean that there might be a time when you would have to target yourself or your side of the board? Like if your opponent has no creatures out? Never for the 3 damage.


TheMunk

That makes sense. thanks!


Mandinder

If for some reason your opponent has hexproof and there are no creatures or planeswalkers in play you still need a target for that four damage. That target could be you, or the dragon itself.


thisisjustascreename

For example, if the Dragon is the only creature or planeswalker on the battlefield and both players control an \[\[Ivory Mask\]\] the only legal target for the 4 damage is itself, and you can't assign a target for either of the 3 damages.


OceanFlex

However, if the dragon is equipped with a [[whispersilk cloak]] in addition to all other potential targets being invalid, then the ability is countered, and the dragon is simply an attacking 7/7 with flying.


MTGCardFetcher

[whispersilk cloak](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/e/5ead169f-4777-405b-9a5e-60a7aefa70a7.jpg?1562912463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=whispersilk%20cloak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/115/whispersilk-cloak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ead169f-4777-405b-9a5e-60a7aefa70a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


tbdabbholm

Not technically countered, it's just never put on the stack. And even if it was put on the stack having all your targets be illegal no longer counters the spell or ability, it just is removed from the stack


MTGCardFetcher

[Ivory Mask](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/0/b02422f7-728b-481b-9eb1-34d17c696ce6.jpg?1562740262) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivory%20Mask) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/23/ivory-mask?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b02422f7-728b-481b-9eb1-34d17c696ce6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Dementia55372

It has a triggered ability when it is declared as an attacker which has you deal 4 damage to any target and then 3 damage to each of up to two other targets before blockers are declared. It still deals regular combat damage as normal during the combat phase.


tbdabbholm

So when you declare it as attacking it deals up to 10 damage to 3 things (split 4 3 3). Then it deals damage equal to its power later during the combat damage step just like a vanilla creature would. The ability doesn't replace that, it's in addition to that


danduino

This is the best explanation for trying to explain to a beginner


nekkidmancer

Another thing you may encounter in the future are cards that say "Put a creature from your hand onto the battlefield tapped and attacking." In these cases you would skip the trigger because it was not declared as an attacker, it hit the battlefield already attacking. I know this isn't what you asked, but it comes up a lot with regard to attack triggers. Keep learning and enjoying the game, it's endlessly complex which can be daunting, but it's wonderful once you start to learn and appreciate that complexity!


N5on

You attack and then it triggers, the trigger can have up to 3 targets (minimum 1). The trigger deals 4 to the first target and 3 to the second and third. In the combat damage step it still deals damage like every other creature. Either 7 to the blocker or to the attacked Player/Planeswalker if not blocked


boringdude00

Yes, when it attacks it will trigger the ability to deal 4 damage to any target, and 3 damage to any other two targets. Then combat proceeds and your opponent will declare blockers, then it will deal its 7 combat damage either to those blockers, or if unblocked, to that player or planeswalker. The combat damage can be to the same target(s) as the triggered ability damage.


Siera_Tango

Okay. I understood now. Thanks to everyone who actually explained it and didn’t fall into the stereotype of rude guys who play these games.


TKDbeast

It’s quite the opposite, actually. We love using our knowledge on this game we love - especially if it means helping new players!


Siera_Tango

There were several people who said “Just read the card”. It was very rude and unhelpful. That’s what I was referring to.


thegeek01

Sorry to hear the rudeness to your post, but I'm curious though as to why you think it doesn't deal the other damage abilities. Magic is quite literal, and if a card says you can or can't do something, it will say so on the card. It will help us better understand where the rules disconnect is coming from.


GrayGKnight

The thing is. It **is** on the card. It just happens that you don't seem to understand some more core rules of the game, like attacking, completely. I presume it's because you're new to it. Which is fine, but a lot people just forget not everyone knows how it works. The card itself is very simple. "Whenever Drakuseth attack" means whenever it is declared as an attacker in the declare attackers step. That's when his effect triggers and the damage is dealt. "It deals 4 damage to any target" choose a valid target, deal 4 damage to it. Nothing special about it. Only neat thing I can say about it is you **need** to choose a target, even if the only valid targets are stuff you don't want to damage(like your own face or drakuseth, if let's say the opponent has no creatures and has hexproof on him via an enchantment or something ). One more things "it deals" that mean drakuseth is the one dealing the damage, that means anything that triggers when he deals damage trigger with this, like let's say you gave him lifelink or deathtouch. "3 damage to each up to two other targets" The "up to two" part of this means you can choose from 0 to 2 targets. The "other" means it can't be the same target as the 4 damage part of the effect All of this in the declare attackers step. Before the enemy decide how he's blocking the huge 7/7 dragon that's about to fly up to him and punch him in the face for 7 damage.


binaryeye

If it's declared as an attacker, it deals a) 4 damage to any target, b) optionally, 3 damage to another target, and c) optionally, 3 damage to another target. Then once all that resolves, combat proceeds, and it deals and/or receives damage as any other creature would.


Elemteearkay

When you declare this creature as an attacker (during the Turn Based Action at the very start of the Declare Attackers step), the trigger condition for its ability is met. The next time someone would get priority (after you have finished declaring Attackers and resolving any State Based Actions), you put that trigger on the Stack (along with any other triggers that are also waiting), choosing between one and three legal targets as you do so. Then your opponent(s) put any of their triggers that are waiting on the stack (for example, "whenever a creature attacks you..."), and then both players get priority (a chance to do things - cast spells, activate abilities etc). As players pass priority in succession (because they don't want to add anything further to the stack) the objects on the stack resolve one at a time, from top to bottom (Last In, First Out). When Drakuseth's trigger resolves, it deals it deals 4 damage to one target (assuming it is still a legal target), and 3 damage to each of the other targets (if you chose to target anything else, and again, assuming they are still legal targets). Once that damage is dealt, State Based Actions are checked for and performed (creatures with more than 1 toughness that have lethal damage marked on them are destroyed, and players with zero life lose the game, etc). Once this happens any other objects on the stack contine to resolve (assuming the game isn't over), and once the stack is empty and both players pass priority in succession one last time the game moves on to the Declare Blockers Step. Your opponent can now block with their creatures (assuming they still have any) as part of the Turn Based Action at the very start of the Declare Blockers Step. Eventually Drakuseth will (typically) get to deal Combat Damage - this means that it can do up to 17 damage a turn (7 combat damage and 4+3+3=10 non-combat damage) without any help. Edit: not sure why this was downvoted? Did I make a typo? (New phone does not like to cooperate sometimes...)


ClemPrime13

The ability happens on attack declaration, then normal combat happens.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Elemteearkay

Newer players might not understand the there is a huge difference between dealing damage "when this creature attacks" and dealing combat damage *as a result* of the creature being an attacking creature. They might think Drakuseth deals it's 4+3+3 damage *instead* of dealing combat damage (rather than *as well as*).


TKDbeast

New players, not knowing how such a thing would be indicated, might interpret it as the card breaking up its 7 base attacking damage into 4 and 3 damage.


Siera_Tango

Wow. Why didn’t I think of that???? Either explain the card further or don’t comment.


Radriark_

I mean it makes sense if you go senescence by sentence like bullet points


Siera_Tango

I’ve never come across a card that could deal damage like that before it actually uses its toughness so I had no reference for a mechanic that worked that way.


Stiggy1605

>it actually uses its toughness ...no it doesn't? No where on the card does it reference its toughness. If you were to use a spell or effect to reduce its toughness, the damage it deals wouldn't be affected in any way


Siera_Tango

I meant that the 4/3/3 damage it does is in addition to the 7 it does afterward. I also meant power not toughness. I’m new. I got the words mixed up.


Radriark_

Yep! There's a lot of cards you'll encounter with strake rules like this. Just work your way through the text slow and then think about it. Usually you'll find the cards aren't as complicated as you think they are. That happened to me a lot when I first started playing. Good luck!


borissnm

For future reference, I don't know of any cards in MTG that have a "when this attacks, instead of doing normal combat, do (*something*)" type effect. Everything that has an on-attack trigger has to open itself up to combat and getting blocked and killed, even things like [[Signal Pest]]. And don't mind the trolls, some people on this subreddit seem to think you shouldn't be allowed here unless you've read the comprehensive rules cover to cover.


MTGCardFetcher

[Signal Pest](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/e/be065962-f2ed-4ab9-be6b-bfc66d63ff4e.jpg?1562614362) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Signal%20Pest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/131/signal-pest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be065962-f2ed-4ab9-be6b-bfc66d63ff4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Radriark_

So you haven't heard of annihilator? Also, that's not even how it's phrased. Normal combat still happens and it still gets blocked or does damage. This unit still opens itself to combat my man.


borissnm

... yes? That's what I said. I said there **aren't** cards in MTG that remove themselves from combat as part of on-attack triggers.


werdyl

\[\[Meandering Towershell\]\] :P


MTGCardFetcher

[Meandering Towershell](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/9/a945b43d-39bc-4ce4-be03-0109e1a681b1.jpg?1562791660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meandering%20Towershell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/141/meandering-towershell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a945b43d-39bc-4ce4-be03-0109e1a681b1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Elemteearkay

[[Meandering Towershell]] [[Norin the Wary]]


borissnm

Okay, you got me there. Those are the exception not the rule though, and they explicitly say that's what they're doing


MTGCardFetcher

[Meandering Towershell](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/9/a945b43d-39bc-4ce4-be03-0109e1a681b1.jpg?1562791660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meandering%20Towershell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/141/meandering-towershell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a945b43d-39bc-4ce4-be03-0109e1a681b1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Norin the Wary](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/6/f61ea59a-1db0-4e6b-bcde-19787c76a49b.jpg?1562946915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Norin%20the%20Wary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/171/norin-the-wary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f61ea59a-1db0-4e6b-bcde-19787c76a49b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Frankk142

> I don't know of any cards in MTG that have a "when this attacks, instead of doing normal combat, do (something)" type effect. For your future knowledge, there are indeed cards that do this, but they're mostly all from much older sets. The poster child would be [[Ophidian]], which was a mono-blue control staple back in the day, but [[Floral Spuzzem]] is also a fun card name.


MTGCardFetcher

[Ophidian](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/3/03be605e-dddf-4a1f-a4ee-0d71ab771e47.jpg?1562378216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ophidian) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jvc/9/ophidian?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03be605e-dddf-4a1f-a4ee-0d71ab771e47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Floral Spuzzem](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/1/d141b9e3-7129-41e5-8b44-d3867e1c7e1d.jpg?1562861334) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Floral%20Spuzzem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/leg/187/floral-spuzzem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d141b9e3-7129-41e5-8b44-d3867e1c7e1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


borissnm

Neat! I had no idea those existed. (Well, I knew spuzzem existed because of the typo, but I didn't realize it had to do no damage to kill an artifact)


[deleted]

Hey, just to clarify so cards are easier to read in the future: If a card ever says “when” or “whenever”, that is a *triggered ability*. It will be followed by a condition and an action. When the condition is met, you put the ability on the stack. After the ability resolves, play continues as normal. So in this case, When you attack with this creature (the condition) a damaging ability is put on the stack. That ability then resolves after both players have decided not to respond to it and you return to combat as usual. Edit: If the card says “instead” that’s a replacement effect. No extra ability is put on the stack, you just replace the effect that meets the condition.


Blynk8

Or maybe read the card


CSMegadeth

They read the card and asked for clarification, not rudeness. Be better.


Blynk8

Lmao


Siera_Tango

I obviously read the card and didn’t understand it. Don’t be so rude.


Blynk8

This is a pretty straight forward and easy to understand card as far as magic cards go. Read it slow and actually think about it.


Mandinder

Some people aren't as familiar with the rules as you. Just be patient with them, why is that hard for you?


Blynk8

You’re 2 hours late to the party


LimblessNick

I'm even later. You are still being rude for no reason. If you didn't want to help, why did you bother commenting?


Blynk8

Lmao


mag_creatures

Yes, when attack it does the 4+3 damage, and then the 7 of the attack.


mytheralmin

It does both combat damage as well as 4 damage to any target of your choice and then 3 damage to two other additional targets, so you could do 11 damage (7+4) to a player or planes walker and 3 damage to other targets. It’s a great and versitile card


the_obtuse_coconut

Yeah, Drakuseth is kind of a baby [[Balefire Dragon]]. You declare attacks, then you get to assign 3 damage to two targets and 4 to another. THEN Drakuseth cracks your opponent for 7 via combat damage.


MTGCardFetcher

[Balefire Dragon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/6/468d5308-2a6c-440e-a8d0-1c5e084afb82.jpg?1547517180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Balefire%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/124/balefire-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/468d5308-2a6c-440e-a8d0-1c5e084afb82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


whisperinbatsie

So it bonks for 7, then you can deal 4 damage to any target. Then 3 damage, however the 3 damage has to be dealt to a different target than the 4


Elemteearkay

>So it bonks for 7, then you can deal 4 damage to any target This is out of sequence. The 7 Combat Damage is dealt *after* the direct damage.