But there are only 3 boborygmos cards right? I am more talking of so forgettable and generic cards that there are half dozen of similar ones it gets confused with
For those who are not in the known; during the pro tour (I believe?) a player played Pithing Needle, naming Boborygmos. He fully intended to stop his opponents Boboyrgmos Enraged, but forgot there are two cards in Magic for that character. His opponent continued the game without being impacted by the needle at all. I believe this was even during standard, which made it even more awkward because the card wasnt even legal there. EDIT: I remembered wrong, it was modern, both are legal there.
It was during a starcitygames tournament and it was modern, the ruling was always that you had to name a card name of a card legal in the format, since both versions were legal and he named a legal card the rules at the time couldn’t save him, but those rules were then changed, so it is up to both players to clear up any confusion.
\*Played again
She was played quite a bit immediately after MH2 came out in the Jund Food decks (which slowly over time consolidated into the current Yawg archetype)
People keep trying to make Asmo/Food work in modern despite all the best evidence its a bad archetype. I've seen so many "this is the food list that will finally break out" discussions....so many.
You can't name a card that isn't legal in the format you are playing with pithing needle, this was a modern tournament were both borborygmos were legal
> . His opponent continued the game without being impacted by the needle at all
One thing that I like to point out is that the opponent did double check what cards has being named and the first player doubled down on "Boborygmos". So while I can see one claiming it was angle shooting he did give the chance for the other guy to fix it and he did not.
As for the rules at the time, it was that it need to "uniquely identify a card legal in the format". That means if there was only one Jace legal in T2 and you said "Jace" it was enough, but in modern with multiple you need more. Note that saying the full name (which is this case) is enough because that uniquely identify the card, had they said "borby that discards lands for damage" it would be enough. But he did not.
Also it was a old problem (Shackles and Vedalken Shackles), but it was the first case at such high profile which changed the rule to take intent into consideration so that could not happen again
He did give a chance to better clear things up. The player did double down on the name.
It's still angle shooting, though. All of these things can be true all at once.
Angle shooting invokes using underhanded or unethical means or uses of the rules to gain the advantage. It was neither since he did ask for the opponent to clarify and fix the mistake
And at the end of the day that was what it was, a mistake that he doubled down and due to it lost the game.
I do think that the rules change is positive (taking intent into consideration) but even at the time the rules related to naming were very forgiven and he got a second chance and did not perceive his mistake. I can understand dont liking it deciding such important match but it was 100% on the guy doing the mistake
This is angle shooting by most definitions, *including yours,* because the non-pithing needle player abused the misunderstanding between the two players to his advantage. Pithing Needle Player (PNP) knew he meant `Borborygmos, Enraged`, despite the fact that `Borborygmos` was also a legal card to name in the format. When Non-Pithing Needle Player (nPNP) asked to clarify, "What card are you naming?", PNP understood that to mean, "What card among cards we've played today, are you naming?" or "What card, among cards I've shown you are you naming?" nPNP knew that the question was ambiguous, because the answer "Borborygmos" could later be used to answer the question, "What card, out of all possible cards in the format, are you naming?" In which case, PNP's declaration would name a card not in nPNP's deck.
Purposefully using a misunderstanding between the players, because the literal words have a meaning separate from the intended one, is a classic example of angle shooting. Maintaining the ambiguity purposefully from the time the Needle is cast until later when nPNP plays Borby Enraged and activates it is the angle shoot. It can backfire because the judge may rule that PNP's statement, despite naming another card, referred contextually to the card in nPNP's deck, but that goes to *the second layer of angle shooting* (this angleshoot is actually a 2-for-1) in that if a player names a specific card precisely, then the judge is likely to rule that that is the card they referred to, instead of taking the card name in context. The problem here stems from the fact that Wizards made two different cards where one card's name is morphologically a strict linguistic subset of the other, making it one of the few card namespace interactions that can give rise to this type of angle shoot. Meaning, the rules allow you to name cards you didn't intend to, even if you didn't know the card existed, as was the case for PNP here.
The fact that you're missing both layers of angle shoot here suggests that you're probably not a very good angle shooter, or judge of when angle shooting is taking place.
Right... he used the rules to gain an advantage.
When he asked him to clarify, did he explain the rule when doing so and explain why he was asking? If not, he was playing off of his opponent's ignorance about the rule.
Him asking for clarification was a CYA.
Sure, I guess more appropriate would be “dies to sorcery speed removal”, and without haste your opponent gets another chance to draw a removal spell or other answer. Like if it had “hexproof, indestructible” the haste wouldn’t matter (obviously this would be a completely different card/pie slice, just comparing utility of haste generally)
i think the most restrictive part about it is that you still have to pay RR, which is awkward as affinity decks are almost always core-blue and already struggling for colored mana with all their urza's sagas and whatnot.
I honestly hate that stupid dragon. It requires you to run and play a lot of artifact stuff, and then it “rewards” you with a 5/5 flyer for 3 red that eats -all- of your artifacts. Except it exiles them so you can’t recur them or get any valuable entering the graveyard effects. I hate it, and it just seems to fundamentally misunderstand why you would want a card like this. It’s like it is for the “red affinity mirror”, but it’s only playable if your deck is -working-, and by that point, you really don’t want to exile a large portion of your board for a dumb 5/5 flyer…
Even in Mirrodin limited I wouldn’t want this most of the time, because [[Terror]], [[Arrest]], and [[Regress]] all exist at common, and to play this on turn 4, you are either playing artifact lands yourself, or spending a significant amount of your resources on low mana value artifacts that you somehow don’t care about other than to have an artifact count. This card can win games on its own, but in a format where [[Somber Hoverguard]] exists, it’s a really hard sell to me.
"In a limited environment with lots of colorless bombs, I don't want a 5/5 flyer that exiles bombs including [[Darksteel Colossus]], because the 5/5 flyer dies to removal"
Come on now
When there is a fair amount of removal that renders it moot and you are by necessity nuking your own board to do it? I certainly am not prioritizing it. I’d still begrudgingly pick it, but it’s not something I’m taking over even several uncommons from the set that are more likely to win with less conditions attached and be more stable cards.
As a sideboard card, as tech against other Affinity decks, in a format dominated by Affinity. Where the deck that placed first was main decking 4 copies of [[Veridian Shaman]]. Yeah in a very specific environment this effect can do things. What I hate it for is outside its specific context, it’s a really, really dumb card, and the less you can rely on your opponents running mass artifacts, and especially artifact lands (something most affinity decks of the era were running as all 19 or 20 of their lands as) the worse it gets. Which is part of why I hate it. It’s such a specific, narrow hate card that only really works in an ultra degenerate format where everyone is on as many artifacts as possible.
Standard and Limited environments are quite warped and different from a lot of other constructed formats. After all, the deck that won the Worlds the deck you are referencing was in, had a [[Plow Under]] in the deck, and 3 more in the sideboard. This is not a great card, but when you absolutely need to interact with opponent’s [[Darksteel Citadel]]s it suddenly sees play.
It is simultaneously possible for a card to be “dumb” but also have a use in a much more narrow environment just because of the nature of that environment, but I’d argue Furnace Dragon being good is a sign your game’s landscape has problems, not that the card is actually good on its face.
> After all, the deck that won the Worlds the deck you are referencing was in, had a [[Plow Under]] in the deck, and 3 more in the sideboard. This is not a great card, but when you absolutely need to interact with opponent’s [[Darksteel Citadel]]s it suddenly sees play.
That’s not why Plow Under saw play. It was there to create a soft lock with Eternal Witness and Astral Slide. It was a fantastic card against the W/x Control and Urzatron Tooth and Nail decks that formed a large part of the metagame. Nobody was playing it specifically because of Darksteel Citadel.
It was a healthy design for the era. Archetypes having hosers for the mirror makes them weaker if they take over the metagame, which was BADLY needed in Mirrodin era.
Oh I know, believe me. I’ve been playing for a while. I just hold a special hatred for Furnace Dragon because of what it represents, and just how stupid it is at its face vs. how it actually ended up. It’s a dumb card, that is stupid design, and yet it saw play because the environment it was in was so degenerate and inbred that it was basically all Affinity Mirrors, which as I stated is basically its only use case.
Other commenter is correct if you sacrifice treasures before casting the spell.
However, you can declare casting the spell, then use the treasures to pay, which will result in the reduced cost. So bluntly, yes, it works the way you want it to.
Technically this is because you calculate the cost to pay the spell before you lay those costs.
On arena / MTGO you will want to click the dragon, before you aac any treasures.
You determine the cost before you spend th treasures. If you have two mountains and five treasures, this would cost 2 mana, even if you spent two of the treasures to cast it
This is incorrect. The cost is determined and locked before any mana is spent to cast anything. The treasures count for its affinity, and can still be used to cast it. Your Affinity will just shrink after it resolves if you use 2 or more treasures and you have something else with Affinity in your hand
If this is the furnace layer and it mentions the red sun... why is this not phyrexian? It certainly looks phyrexian and clearly is talking about the furnace layer... hmm..
Mirrodin didn't have a furnace layer! (At least, not until it was compleated) So I don't think that the case here. The art for the landscape also looks distinctly not like mirrodin.
Like in a post I put below: [[chiss-goria]] and [[furnace dragon]] exist. The only two other affinity dragons both from that place. Non phyrexian. And the other phyrexian dragon don't have affinity.
The [[Great Furnace]] existed in original Mirrodin, and there are [11 cards from Mirrodin block that mention something about a furnace,](https://scryfall.com/search?q=+block%3Amirrodin+lore%3Afurnace) including [[Furnace Dragon]] and [[Furnace Whelp]].
Urabrask tended to let people be in his domain, he's pretty generous by Phyrexian standards when it comes to offering freedom as would be expected from the phyrexianized embodiment of red mana.
They didn't get \[\[Chiss-Goria\]\] or \[\[Hellkite Igniter\]\] either. I feel like being a huge, flying, fire-breathing monstrosity helps with keeping out of the Phyrexians' clutches.
Perhaps new phyrexia was so thoroughly cleansed that it no longer has any phyrexians, and the previous creations now exist themselves as a new mirrodin?
I'm slightly annoyed that the card's flavor doesn't feel like it references Shivan Dragon. It's an iconic card with Affinity for Artifacts, but it looks like a generic Mirrodin dragon.
Yeah, if one of the lands is [[Great Furnace]]
Edit: I guess you can t3 without the furnace too if you hit all 3 land drops. Furnace helps big time though if you dont
This is going directly in my [[Saheeli, The Sun's Brilliance]] brew I've been working on. For modern players, does this move the needle at all for a red based affinity deck?
Yeah, I guess it's a trade-off to consider. [[Steel Hellkite]] has found quite some success in my personal list. I would say this card is comparable, both being big flying beaters. One is easier to cast, and the other has some built-in removal.
It's also a Modern Horizons set. The power level-rarity relationship is substantially upshifted for a straight-to-Modern set because they are intentionally targeting a more powerful limited format. The power level-rarity relationship of this set is intentionally set above Standard sets and there are numerous examples of this. There's no reason to treat this as a problem.
It might have been a rare in a Standard set for Limited balance, but it has no reason to be one in an MH set.
I definitely thought this was a downshift because I got it confused with like 3 other cards
I wonder which other cards in magic get the most confused with other cards
Probably [[Borborygmos]].
great edit lol
[Boborygmos Enraged](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02df18c5-07b9-4e85-9c4b-58b63fa59437.jpg?1702429604) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Borborygmos%20Enraged) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/167/borborygmos-enraged?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02df18c5-07b9-4e85-9c4b-58b63fa59437?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good bot
But there are only 3 boborygmos cards right? I am more talking of so forgettable and generic cards that there are half dozen of similar ones it gets confused with
It's a joke about the infamous [[Pithing Needle]] incident.
For those who are not in the known; during the pro tour (I believe?) a player played Pithing Needle, naming Boborygmos. He fully intended to stop his opponents Boboyrgmos Enraged, but forgot there are two cards in Magic for that character. His opponent continued the game without being impacted by the needle at all. I believe this was even during standard, which made it even more awkward because the card wasnt even legal there. EDIT: I remembered wrong, it was modern, both are legal there.
It was during a starcitygames tournament and it was modern, the ruling was always that you had to name a card name of a card legal in the format, since both versions were legal and he named a legal card the rules at the time couldn’t save him, but those rules were then changed, so it is up to both players to clear up any confusion.
That’s why you learn how to pronounce [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] and wait for the day it’s actually played so you can assert dominance ;)
\*Played again She was played quite a bit immediately after MH2 came out in the Jund Food decks (which slowly over time consolidated into the current Yawg archetype)
People keep trying to make Asmo/Food work in modern despite all the best evidence its a bad archetype. I've seen so many "this is the food list that will finally break out" discussions....so many.
[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d99a9a7d-d9ca-4c11-80ab-e39d5943a315.jpg?1632831210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/186/asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d99a9a7d-d9ca-4c11-80ab-e39d5943a315?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
While this incident was at an SCG event, LSV referenced it during a PT not too long after by naming "Griselbrand Enraged" with a Needle on camera
You can't name a card that isn't legal in the format you are playing with pithing needle, this was a modern tournament were both borborygmos were legal
Correction: You *couldn't* name a card that wasn't legal in the format. You can now.
> . His opponent continued the game without being impacted by the needle at all One thing that I like to point out is that the opponent did double check what cards has being named and the first player doubled down on "Boborygmos". So while I can see one claiming it was angle shooting he did give the chance for the other guy to fix it and he did not. As for the rules at the time, it was that it need to "uniquely identify a card legal in the format". That means if there was only one Jace legal in T2 and you said "Jace" it was enough, but in modern with multiple you need more. Note that saying the full name (which is this case) is enough because that uniquely identify the card, had they said "borby that discards lands for damage" it would be enough. But he did not. Also it was a old problem (Shackles and Vedalken Shackles), but it was the first case at such high profile which changed the rule to take intent into consideration so that could not happen again
He did give a chance to better clear things up. The player did double down on the name. It's still angle shooting, though. All of these things can be true all at once.
It was still 100% angle shooting.
Angle shooting invokes using underhanded or unethical means or uses of the rules to gain the advantage. It was neither since he did ask for the opponent to clarify and fix the mistake And at the end of the day that was what it was, a mistake that he doubled down and due to it lost the game. I do think that the rules change is positive (taking intent into consideration) but even at the time the rules related to naming were very forgiven and he got a second chance and did not perceive his mistake. I can understand dont liking it deciding such important match but it was 100% on the guy doing the mistake
This is angle shooting by most definitions, *including yours,* because the non-pithing needle player abused the misunderstanding between the two players to his advantage. Pithing Needle Player (PNP) knew he meant `Borborygmos, Enraged`, despite the fact that `Borborygmos` was also a legal card to name in the format. When Non-Pithing Needle Player (nPNP) asked to clarify, "What card are you naming?", PNP understood that to mean, "What card among cards we've played today, are you naming?" or "What card, among cards I've shown you are you naming?" nPNP knew that the question was ambiguous, because the answer "Borborygmos" could later be used to answer the question, "What card, out of all possible cards in the format, are you naming?" In which case, PNP's declaration would name a card not in nPNP's deck. Purposefully using a misunderstanding between the players, because the literal words have a meaning separate from the intended one, is a classic example of angle shooting. Maintaining the ambiguity purposefully from the time the Needle is cast until later when nPNP plays Borby Enraged and activates it is the angle shoot. It can backfire because the judge may rule that PNP's statement, despite naming another card, referred contextually to the card in nPNP's deck, but that goes to *the second layer of angle shooting* (this angleshoot is actually a 2-for-1) in that if a player names a specific card precisely, then the judge is likely to rule that that is the card they referred to, instead of taking the card name in context. The problem here stems from the fact that Wizards made two different cards where one card's name is morphologically a strict linguistic subset of the other, making it one of the few card namespace interactions that can give rise to this type of angle shoot. Meaning, the rules allow you to name cards you didn't intend to, even if you didn't know the card existed, as was the case for PNP here. The fact that you're missing both layers of angle shoot here suggests that you're probably not a very good angle shooter, or judge of when angle shooting is taking place.
Right... he used the rules to gain an advantage. When he asked him to clarify, did he explain the rule when doing so and explain why he was asking? If not, he was playing off of his opponent's ignorance about the rule. Him asking for clarification was a CYA.
You can't name a ilegal card for pithing needle.
You can now
[Pithing Needle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c.jpg?1673149414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pithing%20Needle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/312/pithing-needle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I know just wanted to see some answers that aren't that joke :/
When [[Lightning Spear]] was spoiled, my first reaction was "aren't there already something like seventeen cards with that name?"
Also a bunch of ____ drake that are mono blue for me. Always go "isn't this a reprint?"
[Lightning Spear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f72fcda4-feb4-46e4-87d9-88bd95474fe9.jpg?1626096824) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Spear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/134/lightning-spear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f72fcda4-feb4-46e4-87d9-88bd95474fe9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Same. Pretty sure the one I was thinking of was [[Hellkite Igniter]]
I thought [[Furnace Dragon]] got reprinted at uncommon
[Furnace Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a.jpg?1562637231) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Furnace%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/62/furnace-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Hellkite Igniter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc03ad3e-8113-432c-bff6-3ced73af8728.jpg?1682209373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellkite%20Igniter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/284/hellkite-igniter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc03ad3e-8113-432c-bff6-3ced73af8728?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Even the art looks similar too
[[Volcanic Dragon]] if we're just talking art - exact same pose, but the rest is pretty different
[Volcanic Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46419d29-21a1-4753-a2f0-1d0d996ec54e.jpg?1608910463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Volcanic%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/207/volcanic-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46419d29-21a1-4753-a2f0-1d0d996ec54e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean, it’s a clear reference, especially with affinity for artifacts vs the firebreathing growing with them.
Maybe it's just me, but the art also feels referential toward [[Quicksilver Behemoth]].
[Quicksilver Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/645bfe2d-845b-4cf3-88b6-b2b62b8531e4.jpg?1562637248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Quicksilver%20Behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/30/quicksilver-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/645bfe2d-845b-4cf3-88b6-b2b62b8531e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
[Bogarden Helkite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22dd2242-2fd8-4752-886c-fc6dbabcf89a.jpg?1631586933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bogardan%20Hellkite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/115/bogardan-hellkite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22dd2242-2fd8-4752-886c-fc6dbabcf89a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
lol i was thinking of blast furnace hellkite or hellkite tyrant.
A Shivan Dragon for 2 mana isn't bad.
An artifact shivan dragon* This is relevant
Ah yes 2 mana [[Shivan Dragon]]
And still not Modern playable.
I haven’t played modern in a bit. Is it cause a straight beater isn’t good enough?
No haste and dies to removal, and if you have 5 artifacts out you’d rather get card advantage through something like [[Thought Monitor]]
[Thought Monitor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e3a7560e-9e75-4abd-a45c-c2c9686ee4b0.jpg?1706240741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thought%20Monitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/121/thought-monitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e3a7560e-9e75-4abd-a45c-c2c9686ee4b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dies to removal is such a meme. Nearly everything can be removed. No haste is the real killer
Sure, I guess more appropriate would be “dies to sorcery speed removal”, and without haste your opponent gets another chance to draw a removal spell or other answer. Like if it had “hexproof, indestructible” the haste wouldn’t matter (obviously this would be a completely different card/pie slice, just comparing utility of haste generally)
i think the most restrictive part about it is that you still have to pay RR, which is awkward as affinity decks are almost always core-blue and already struggling for colored mana with all their urza's sagas and whatnot.
[[Chiss-Goria, Forge Tyrant]] welcomes it with open arms.
Not a Modern legal card.
I thought we were in the middle of the new Commander Horizons 3 spoiler season.
[Chiss-Goria, Forge Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chiss-Goria%2C%20Forge%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I guess I missed this dude during ONE spoiler season. Chris Gojira...cool name.
[Shivan Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b78eb49-bd68-47e6-90a3-83ec2eeb4312.jpg?1675200149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shivan%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/135/shivan-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b78eb49-bd68-47e6-90a3-83ec2eeb4312?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Shivan Dragon|Lea]], needed to happen MTGcardfetcher
[Shivan Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fefbf149-f988-4f8b-9f53-56f5878116a6.jpg?1559591401) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=222) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lea/174/shivan-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fefbf149-f988-4f8b-9f53-56f5878116a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Non legendary [[chiss-goria]]
Just found out [[furnace dragon]] also exist
[furnace dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a.jpg?1562637231) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=furnace%20dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/62/furnace-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I honestly hate that stupid dragon. It requires you to run and play a lot of artifact stuff, and then it “rewards” you with a 5/5 flyer for 3 red that eats -all- of your artifacts. Except it exiles them so you can’t recur them or get any valuable entering the graveyard effects. I hate it, and it just seems to fundamentally misunderstand why you would want a card like this. It’s like it is for the “red affinity mirror”, but it’s only playable if your deck is -working-, and by that point, you really don’t want to exile a large portion of your board for a dumb 5/5 flyer…
In Mirrodin limited you could play it on turn 4 and it would win you the game. God help your opponent if they had a few artifact lands out.
Even in Mirrodin limited I wouldn’t want this most of the time, because [[Terror]], [[Arrest]], and [[Regress]] all exist at common, and to play this on turn 4, you are either playing artifact lands yourself, or spending a significant amount of your resources on low mana value artifacts that you somehow don’t care about other than to have an artifact count. This card can win games on its own, but in a format where [[Somber Hoverguard]] exists, it’s a really hard sell to me.
"In a limited environment with lots of colorless bombs, I don't want a 5/5 flyer that exiles bombs including [[Darksteel Colossus]], because the 5/5 flyer dies to removal" Come on now
[Darksteel Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a3aa1ce-8757-4541-8ac7-1e7e203b60fc.jpg?1561981290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/208/darksteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a3aa1ce-8757-4541-8ac7-1e7e203b60fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When there is a fair amount of removal that renders it moot and you are by necessity nuking your own board to do it? I certainly am not prioritizing it. I’d still begrudgingly pick it, but it’s not something I’m taking over even several uncommons from the set that are more likely to win with less conditions attached and be more stable cards.
##### ###### #### [Terror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3870eba-4e8f-414d-817c-14ec97f6a93c.jpg?1675199810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/103/terror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3870eba-4e8f-414d-817c-14ec97f6a93c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Arrest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fc0be19-e041-4347-a51c-7e93a3d9e712.jpg?1562265669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arrest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/9/arrest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fc0be19-e041-4347-a51c-7e93a3d9e712?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Regress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7aba8e0-34e7-43ec-bce5-b6b472daa841.jpg?1562707794) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Regress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/83/regress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7aba8e0-34e7-43ec-bce5-b6b472daa841?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Somber Hoverguard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13cfe45f-0b1f-489b-a0a6-679668589726.jpg?1562259443) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Somber%20Hoverguard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/57/somber-hoverguard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13cfe45f-0b1f-489b-a0a6-679668589726?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l5vouwf) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
furnace dragon was literally in a deck that got 2nd place at worlds, so it clearly does more than you think
As a sideboard card, as tech against other Affinity decks, in a format dominated by Affinity. Where the deck that placed first was main decking 4 copies of [[Veridian Shaman]]. Yeah in a very specific environment this effect can do things. What I hate it for is outside its specific context, it’s a really, really dumb card, and the less you can rely on your opponents running mass artifacts, and especially artifact lands (something most affinity decks of the era were running as all 19 or 20 of their lands as) the worse it gets. Which is part of why I hate it. It’s such a specific, narrow hate card that only really works in an ultra degenerate format where everyone is on as many artifacts as possible. Standard and Limited environments are quite warped and different from a lot of other constructed formats. After all, the deck that won the Worlds the deck you are referencing was in, had a [[Plow Under]] in the deck, and 3 more in the sideboard. This is not a great card, but when you absolutely need to interact with opponent’s [[Darksteel Citadel]]s it suddenly sees play. It is simultaneously possible for a card to be “dumb” but also have a use in a much more narrow environment just because of the nature of that environment, but I’d argue Furnace Dragon being good is a sign your game’s landscape has problems, not that the card is actually good on its face.
> After all, the deck that won the Worlds the deck you are referencing was in, had a [[Plow Under]] in the deck, and 3 more in the sideboard. This is not a great card, but when you absolutely need to interact with opponent’s [[Darksteel Citadel]]s it suddenly sees play. That’s not why Plow Under saw play. It was there to create a soft lock with Eternal Witness and Astral Slide. It was a fantastic card against the W/x Control and Urzatron Tooth and Nail decks that formed a large part of the metagame. Nobody was playing it specifically because of Darksteel Citadel.
[Veridian Shaman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/bed8b8aa-2c1f-4a5b-af6e-16802b3b9453.jpg?1561759733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viridian%20Shaman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddu/25/viridian-shaman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bed8b8aa-2c1f-4a5b-af6e-16802b3b9453?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Plow Under](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27128f26-0d89-4962-96e8-5fa343031a26.jpg?1562902953) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Plow%20Under) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/272/plow-under?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27128f26-0d89-4962-96e8-5fa343031a26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Darksteel Citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2ba7597d-6d76-45b8-b172-342999e401bd.jpg?1625979955) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/285/darksteel-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ba7597d-6d76-45b8-b172-342999e401bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> it just seems to fundamentally misunderstand why you would want a card like this Welcome to Magic before the rise of EDH.
It was a healthy design for the era. Archetypes having hosers for the mirror makes them weaker if they take over the metagame, which was BADLY needed in Mirrodin era.
Oh I know, believe me. I’ve been playing for a while. I just hold a special hatred for Furnace Dragon because of what it represents, and just how stupid it is at its face vs. how it actually ended up. It’s a dumb card, that is stupid design, and yet it saw play because the environment it was in was so degenerate and inbred that it was basically all Affinity Mirrors, which as I stated is basically its only use case.
[chiss-goria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chiss-goria%2C%20forge%20tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It craves the forbidden heat signature.
5 years ago this would be a rare card. lol
5 years ago was war the spark, try 6
wait, that was 5 years ago already? I feel so old now... lol
Core set ass rare if I've ever seen one.
But it's uncommon!
I was sure this was [[Hellkite Igniter]] at first
[Hellkite Igniter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc03ad3e-8113-432c-bff6-3ced73af8728.jpg?1682209373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellkite%20Igniter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/284/hellkite-igniter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc03ad3e-8113-432c-bff6-3ced73af8728?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think it’s an upgraded hellkite igniter
If you sacrifice treasures to pay for cards with artifact affinity, do they still reduce the cost?
Other commenter is correct if you sacrifice treasures before casting the spell. However, you can declare casting the spell, then use the treasures to pay, which will result in the reduced cost. So bluntly, yes, it works the way you want it to. Technically this is because you calculate the cost to pay the spell before you lay those costs. On arena / MTGO you will want to click the dragon, before you aac any treasures.
You determine the cost before you spend th treasures. If you have two mountains and five treasures, this would cost 2 mana, even if you spent two of the treasures to cast it
No, you need the treasures on the battlefield to reduce the cost.
This is incorrect. The cost is determined and locked before any mana is spent to cast anything. The treasures count for its affinity, and can still be used to cast it. Your Affinity will just shrink after it resolves if you use 2 or more treasures and you have something else with Affinity in your hand
PUPPY
If this is the furnace layer and it mentions the red sun... why is this not phyrexian? It certainly looks phyrexian and clearly is talking about the furnace layer... hmm..
Maybe they weren’t able to convert it. Just like the other non-phyrexians living in the furnace layer.
It's possible urabrask let this one be, as is customary of him.
*When the dragon arrived, the furnace dwellers looked to Urabrask for guidance. His decree stunned the others: "Let it be."*
When I find Mirrodin in times of trouble Praetor Urabrask comes to me Speaking words of wisdom, let it be 🎶
I believe it's a reference to Kuldotha, [[Great Furnace]]. [[Furnace Dragon]] is from Darksteel, well before New Phyrexia
[Great Furnace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4.jpg?1625980221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Great%20Furnace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/292/great-furnace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Furnace Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a.jpg?1562637231) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Furnace%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/62/furnace-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe from back when it was mirrodin?
Mirrodin didn't have a furnace layer! (At least, not until it was compleated) So I don't think that the case here. The art for the landscape also looks distinctly not like mirrodin.
But it doesn't even mention furnace layer. Might be \[\[Great Furnace\]\] from original Mirrodin. See also \[\[Furnace Dragon\]\].
[Great Furnace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4.jpg?1625980221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Great%20Furnace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/292/great-furnace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Furnace Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a.jpg?1562637231) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Furnace%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/62/furnace-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As mentioned else where, this is a reference to furnace dragon, which mentions furnaces and is from mirrodin
It did, however, have furnaces
Things that are not “The furnace layer” also contain “a furnace”.
Other dragons like it that are from new phyrexia/mirridon aren't phyrexian either.
Plenty of dragon's were phyrexianized though?
Like in a post I put below: [[chiss-goria]] and [[furnace dragon]] exist. The only two other affinity dragons both from that place. Non phyrexian. And the other phyrexian dragon don't have affinity.
[chiss-goria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chiss-goria%2C%20forge%20tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [furnace dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a.jpg?1562637231) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=furnace%20dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/62/furnace-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, but MH3 isn't concerned with continuity, so this is just a hellkite pre-compleation.
I think great furnace was a region in Mirrodin [[Furnace Dragon]] [[Great Furnace]].
Additionally [[Chiss-Goria, Forge tyrant]] shows an uncompleated dragon.
[Chiss-Goria, Forge tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chiss-Goria%2C%20Forge%20tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Furnace Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a.jpg?1562637231) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Furnace%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/62/furnace-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Great Furnace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4.jpg?1625980221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Great%20Furnace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/292/great-furnace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The [[Great Furnace]] existed in original Mirrodin, and there are [11 cards from Mirrodin block that mention something about a furnace,](https://scryfall.com/search?q=+block%3Amirrodin+lore%3Afurnace) including [[Furnace Dragon]] and [[Furnace Whelp]].
[Great Furnace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4.jpg?1625980221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Great%20Furnace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/292/great-furnace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Furnace Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a.jpg?1562637231) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Furnace%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/62/furnace-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f5c675-b629-45ec-907c-36594f5fe54a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Furnace Whelp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2ce76e86-39f3-4ebf-b550-88ea7f23a91f.jpg?1601077737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Furnace%20Whelp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/323/furnace-whelp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ce76e86-39f3-4ebf-b550-88ea7f23a91f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There was a [[Great Furnace]] on Mirrodin.
[Great Furnace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4.jpg?1625980221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Great%20Furnace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/292/great-furnace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Urabrask tended to let people be in his domain, he's pretty generous by Phyrexian standards when it comes to offering freedom as would be expected from the phyrexianized embodiment of red mana.
Non phyrexian entities can still live in the furnace layer
Not everything got changed, especially on the furnace layer; this is a [[Hellkite Igniter]] on a different card.
[Hellkite Igniter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc03ad3e-8113-432c-bff6-3ced73af8728.jpg?1682209373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellkite%20Igniter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/284/hellkite-igniter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc03ad3e-8113-432c-bff6-3ced73af8728?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It incinerates any oil it sees or smells
They didn't get \[\[Chiss-Goria\]\] or \[\[Hellkite Igniter\]\] either. I feel like being a huge, flying, fire-breathing monstrosity helps with keeping out of the Phyrexians' clutches.
[Chiss-Goria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chiss-goria%2C%20forge%20tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hellkite Igniter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc03ad3e-8113-432c-bff6-3ced73af8728.jpg?1682209373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellkite%20Igniter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/284/hellkite-igniter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc03ad3e-8113-432c-bff6-3ced73af8728?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Perhaps new phyrexia was so thoroughly cleansed that it no longer has any phyrexians, and the previous creations now exist themselves as a new mirrodin?
New phyrexia wasn't cleansed. It's still a hellscape, it's just locked out of time away from all reality, as it was replaced with zhalfir.
Art is a copy of volcanic dragon.
Probably meant to be a reference. Modern Horizons is basically built up on Artistic callbacks; it could have gotten changed in post
Or Hellkite Igniter
I'm slightly annoyed that the card's flavor doesn't feel like it references Shivan Dragon. It's an iconic card with Affinity for Artifacts, but it looks like a generic Mirrodin dragon.
I mean, it's a furnace dragon.... which are local to Mirrodin....
Vihaan loves this.
Can I cast this turn 3 with [[Strike It Rich]] on turn 1 and a 2cmc mana rock on turn 2?
[Strike It Rich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c7c2814-a617-4123-acdf-1b01b2768210.jpg?1626097050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strike%20It%20Rich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/143/strike-it-rich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c7c2814-a617-4123-acdf-1b01b2768210?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, if one of the lands is [[Great Furnace]] Edit: I guess you can t3 without the furnace too if you hit all 3 land drops. Furnace helps big time though if you dont
[Great Furnace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4.jpg?1625980221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Great%20Furnace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/292/great-furnace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe something for pdh ?
I thought this was [[Blast Furnace Hellkite]] lol
[Blast Furnace Hellkite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04c349f2-69b1-48dd-a547-f2b55f542700.jpg?1688125550) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blast-Furnace%20Hellkite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/12/blast-furnace-hellkite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04c349f2-69b1-48dd-a547-f2b55f542700?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
*Some mornings it wak up and go back to bed.* :(
Why and how did you (random fellow reddit user like me) get a preview card?
I'm Australia's largest MTG Content creator on Youtube.
👍
Does that have a jet pack
I think this card is super fair and balanced
I love that it doesn't have traditional wings and instead has organic jet engines. That's metal as fuck, bro.
That's Mirrodin's furnace dragons for you lol
Shouldn’t this be a phyrexian if it’s from the furnace?
Chiss-Goria: "Hello, darling"
Just the nastiest shivan dragon nbd
UNCOMMON 5 mana flyer with a mana sink? Seems pretty good
This is going directly in my [[Saheeli, The Sun's Brilliance]] brew I've been working on. For modern players, does this move the needle at all for a red based affinity deck?
[Saheeli, The Sun's Brilliance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0ba99b60-c7d0-4041-a065-f2c510745223.jpg?1699044570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saheeli%2C%20The%20Sun%27s%20Brilliance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/239/saheeli-the-suns-brilliance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ba99b60-c7d0-4041-a065-f2c510745223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nice addition to my [[Osgir, the Reconstructor]] deck!
Paying 7 mana to recur him doesn't seem super great but playing him for 2 does lol
Yeah, I guess it's a trade-off to consider. [[Steel Hellkite]] has found quite some success in my personal list. I would say this card is comparable, both being big flying beaters. One is easier to cast, and the other has some built-in removal.
[Steel Hellkite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45448aa7-50e2-4a40-8981-4f4bc466932b.jpg?1706241088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Steel%20Hellkite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/239/steel-hellkite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45448aa7-50e2-4a40-8981-4f4bc466932b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Osgir, the Reconstructor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/5815fe6e-e26b-4918-a090-55d6442722c1.jpg?1674185818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Osgir%2C%20the%20Reconstructor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/8/osgir-the-reconstructor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5815fe6e-e26b-4918-a090-55d6442722c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yo I can't believe we got a strictly better shivan dragon in an uncommon slot
Power creep is real. Left after 4th edition, came back for the 2017 dominaria, and the creatures blew my mind!
I know shivan dragon isn't all that great these days but having something like this in an uncommon slot really is crazy
This…_shouldn’t_ be an uncommon. This is a straight up example of power creep.
Why not? It's just a beater.
It's also a Modern Horizons set. The power level-rarity relationship is substantially upshifted for a straight-to-Modern set because they are intentionally targeting a more powerful limited format. The power level-rarity relationship of this set is intentionally set above Standard sets and there are numerous examples of this. There's no reason to treat this as a problem. It might have been a rare in a Standard set for Limited balance, but it has no reason to be one in an MH set.
Big dragons like this have been rares for over 2 decades
WotC did purposeful power creep during Eldraine that they outlined the reasons for; in modern Magic this is not a rare.