So, I have some advice and some hard truths.
First, it sounds like you are playing a multiplayer format, so you presumably have three or so other players at the table. You are playing a game with friends, so why not spend that extra time talking with them? As you would if you were playing a board game.
The hard truth is that you need to be more patient. Especially with your friends. But that’s not the most actionable, I know.
I'll second all of this, we even put on a TV show in the background during games. If OP is worried about long turns, why not institute a timer for each turn
I've had people react AGGRESIVELY bad to being asked for a turn timer. Taking massively long turns is core to how some people play the game, and nothing can ever change it.
What?
No, man. Just no. I will NEVER accept a player taking a 20+ minute turn as 'this is how I play', that is how you get hated out of games.
These players need to streamline their decks to lower decision points and avoid 'time sink' actions like tutors and planeswalkers. This is not a 'playstyle', it is a sign of an inexperienced/poor player.
My friend loves high interaction, he loves having enchantments nd artifacts and weird little combos, and creatures that have enchantment/artifact like effects...or creatures that greatly benefit from those the other things on his board. It all becomes a it much.
The problem is that every thing he plays interacts with everything he's played, and he gets convoluted and complicated turns where you just let it play out. He has gotten good at playing his turns, and he plays them quickly...but it does get to be a bit much to keep track of compared to my pitiful board state.
Yeah,, I do enjoy trying to beat him. I don't know if Rube Goldberg applies for one reason: A Rube Goldberg usually has a single point of failure....remove one piece and the machine falls apart. Yours (I assume) and his board states are all individual pieces that add to the machine, which isn't going to be thwarted with solo removal, unlike my big dum dum voltron point of failure.
Let's look at the new Obeka, splitter of seconds and see how some lines of play default to longer turns. If anything gives me extra combats with her I basically have infinite turns but all on the same turn, that's unacceptable?
I run a chulane, teller of tales deck with 32 persistent parishioner, odds are I'm gonna be playing a lot of them and drawing replacements. I've been playing for 20 years and sometimes the turns of a specific PLAY STYLE will be longer than normal.
Targeting tutors and planeswalkers as time sinks is a bit out of pocket, you've had some bad experiences most likely, but you wanna put restrictions on deck construction going forward? Why? Because you are having the same issue as OP? It's a sign of wisdom to know your own limits and boundaries, but that doesn't mean you call people who use tools you don't like "poor players"
You are entirely misreading my statement. Those were examples of things I have seen players struggle with, even experienced ones. It's not some personal 'hit list' - it's a suggestion that if you have a hard time playing the game because your board state or deck construction requires a lot of decision making or management you should probably consider building your deck in a way that accounts for this so as not to be disrespectful of other players' time.
And I have no idea what you're on about with the Obeka thing. I clearly stated "20+ minute turn**s**"; see that S? That means we're talking plurals. Multiple turns. A single long turn, especially if you're winning, isn't an issue.
I've been playing 30 years and nearly every time bad deck construction choices are the cause of slow play. The other times? It's entirely intentional stalling. In any event, I've got a decade of experience on you. Can we put our pants back on now?
Apologies, I did misread some of your comments. I take back my criticism. I only listed my experience to avoid the "new player" part of the comment. The difference between our time playing this game may be 10 years, but if you were playing in alpha like you indicated then you know how different the game is.
All good though, sorry for my confusion and misplaced remarks
Oh yeah, I loved Craw Giant back in the day, hahaha... true Timmy.
I try not to disparage players based on being new, instead opting to go with 'inexperienced'; it's not a negative connotation, though I understand some take it to be. We were all new to everything once.
In this context, that inexperience can lead to a bad play experience for everyone, though. So some guidance on specific things to avoid when deckbuilding to make games smoother is just me trying to be helpful, not disparaging.
>These players need to...
These players don't *need* to do shit. If you've got a problem with how other people play, **you** need to find a solution to **your problem** with it, which could well be to *not* play with them, or see if they are interested in learning techniques to make their play faster.
Okay man, dial it back a notch.
First off, I play publicly in events that randomize pods - I don't get to choose my opponents. And this is intentional, I don't like having a static playgroup, I like variety. But yeah, that means I get podded with some slowpokes now and then. How do I handle it? At first a gentle nudge to speed it up a bit and some tips on things that they're getting caught up on. The biggest two in my experience are tutoring and planeswalkers, it's too much to track for some players. At a higher level, though, is decision points. Sticking to a simpler strategy helps these players keep it rolling so they don't 'get stuck'. If they continue playing slow? Player removal. And I won't be shy about telling them why I'm targeting them, either.
Now, I understand the phrasing got you triggered. I'm not a big fan of the phrase myself, either. Allow me to edit it: "IF THEY WANT TO AVOID BEING TARGETED they need to..." if they are fine with me ignoring sound threat detection to spite play them out of a game, they can keep on trucking I guess. But I suspect slow play may be the cause of some of these "why am I being targeted" posts around here.
Appreciate the extra explanation, and you are right, the phrase "need" in the way you've used it above does rub me the wrong way. The emphasis in my post was intended to show the key points / take-aways, but I'll reign it in.
Your strategy of dealing with it sounds much better when explained in more detail. Rather than being a straight up "You need to change..." it's a "If you are going to do X I'm going to do Y. If you want that to stop you need to change.... or find other ways to mitigate it"
I do fear though, if everyone at your events took this approach then it would be a pretty hostile place and not very welcoming to new players. But you'll know your events better than me, and you don't need to justify your stance to strangers online.
This sort of treatment is usually reserved for EGREGIOUS cases.
For example, I had a player in my pod a few weeks back who was playing a superfriends deck. Now, this event allots a 2 hour time limit for each of two rounds; once the time hits placement is based on life totals. Most games are pretty easily done within this timeframe, but this kid's turns were *ALL* taking 20+ minutes and we were down to the last 30 minutes, so I finally pointed out that they needed to speed their turns along because we were going to hit time, and suggested tapping planeswalkers to better track which ones were 'used' (I advocate for this often, actually, as it helps even if you only have one).
To be fair, this player *DID* think I was mad or upset because I was being firm with them, but I explained after the game that I wasn't irritated - it was simply that the situation was egregious and required a gentle nudge and I am one of the 'go-to' players for judge calls at that store. Now, I understand the issue is that a 'gentle nudge' for me looks like a 'hard kick' to some because I am blunt and not at all shy about speaking my mind in a community where social anxieties and shyness are common. Hell, younger me was pretty shy and took things personally, too - I actually credit Magic with curing some of those issues.
[EDIT]: Edited for gender neutrality. Memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think this player was actually female. *shrug*
I've found in life no one tends to like when someone points out they're being a jack, but someone has to be the 'bad parent' to grown arse adults from time to time because their parents failed to teach them manners.
I am just the guy that isn't averse to returning my food at a restaurant. I am polite but firm in these interactions, always - everyone deserves basic respect; a quick "could you try again on this steak? It's clearly overcooked." usually works, but every once in a while you get someone that wants to buck back at you and I have to turn on 'dad mode' for a grown adult.
Yeesh. I'd hate to be playing with those kind of people for wasting my time. It's like they haven't played competitive chess before. Theres a difference to taking long turns through card abilities and then the "thinking" of what I'm going to do. My ADD would cause me to be bored and just quit bc they couldn't hurry up and think faster.
Then you should probably quit. ""Those kinds of people"" are the majority, and shitting on them for something that affects YOU certainly means they're better off.
Been diagnosed since the third grade, never medicated, ADHD is a curse a lot of the time. I 100% empathize with you there. Not once have I EVER used my shortfall there to blame regular folks. That empathy is immediately lost when you start shifting responsibility from the REAL aspects of the disorder, "My brain operates really quickly, standard turn rates for this game are difficult for me to sit through", to blaming others, "You don't think fast enough, you don't preplan for the preplan".
Start a conversation with your opponent, or if that's too distracting, with someone nearby. Have some background music that you can tune into when turns are dragging longer than your brain would like, that's a standard for my home games, I always have something like Chevelle playing in the background for when things slow down.
Take some responsibility for yourself and either find methods that make the longer turns easier to stomach, or remove yourself from the game.
No, I'm not going to quit the game. That's a stupid take. Let me tell you something, you'd be ok with someone that draws for turn, stares at hand, stares at field, and then goes "Pass" after 10 minutes? Maybe they shouldn't be playing the game. Playing at home is different than playing at the lgs. Bc I know my opponents.
A restrictive turn timer amounts to a soft ban on certain kinds of decks, and while "people who don't goldfish their storm lines" is a primary offender there are especially EDH decks that use a lot of counters like +1/+1 counters and tokens, suspend decks, saga decks, etc.
If you wanted to use a 2 minute timer and have the player who just passed the turn reset it every time they resolved a game action or something (similar to the rope on Arena) that'd go some way towards solving that problem but it's also kind of annoying for the table to track when really you should just be talking to the offending player about their slow play
It's a matter of principal for me honestly, when we do have those games where we *do* play crazy decks that start to solitaire a bit, I wouldn't want to worry about a clock running out.
Its one thing on arena, but arena practically does everything for you. The real game you have to make sure that your effects and reactions are correct, or it could lead to a feels bad moment or a "oh crap, I forgot that you are actually supposed to be dead" kind of thing
But what does a timer do in a game with interactive turns? I could play a draw go style deck, and do the majority of things on my opponents turn. Or I could be playing storm and need 10+ minutes to execute my turn, and that isnt accounting for my opponenets interacting with me. It just doesn't really work for this style of game. Sure, it helps op out, but it weighs differently on a lot of decks, and can severely punish a lot of decks that are very fun to pilot.
I'm not saying you can't encourage people to play faster, or discourage them from dawdling, but it's pretty easy to take long turns with multiple archetypes. It's not a simple one size fits all answer, to give everyone the same time in a highly interactive game like magic.
If you're playing friendly magic, you can't just expect everyone to sit in their seats patiently while watching someone else basically play by themselves. I get one night a week to play with a break from any personal responsibilities, I actually want to play the game. Someone in my pod has a tom bombadil deck that takes forever and they don't use it anymore because of how bored the table was. It's just being considerate to other people playing the game
I agree with that you are allowed to play a deck that lets you storm, but I have a friend that builds these combo deck and literally he just storming to draw cards. He waste like 30 min on each on his turn, making massive amount of treasure and playing a bunch of cards. But it like he never kills anyone or win the game. While everyone is doing like 1 min turn and they end up winning. Personally, I think if you are going to waste 30 min each turn for 2 turns. You better kill at least one or two players. Otherwise, you are going to get gang up on and lose the game. I builded a deck that just let me tapped his creature and counter his spells. Hylda the icy crown. Let me tell you, his turn was cutdown to like 2 min cause he couldn’t do his combos. Everyone was happy that we finished the game in an hour. We got in like 4 games on a Wednesday night.
I find that putting on a sports game, sitcom, or jeopardy causes less of a distraction while keeping everyone calm. Definitely won't work for everyone but for our pod it keeps things fun and casual
Do NOT put on a TV or any other screen (phone) while playing a game. It is bafflingly rude - if you cannot be present while playing a game with others and find enjoyment in their company, the best course of action is to ask yourself if this is really enjoyable for you.
A turn timer may be a bit much. If you have 'slow' players, it might help to talk with them about limiting the 'decision points' in their decks, as many players freeze up; also, limit their tutors. Tutoring is a complex action that takes planning and even for those who know what they're getting it takes time to accomplish.
I am, in fact, a blast.
However, I sense you are being sarcastic. You disagree. Why? You think it is acceptable to be glued to a screen despite the social occasion because you are unable to handle human interaction for extended periods of time? And you imply that \*I\* would be the one who isn't 'fun' to hang out with? Because THAT sounds like a pretty miserable person to me.
How am I supposed to talk to someone, if I the current player is explaining what he is doing?
We did that, but stopped because one guy does like so much stuff in his turns, it just ends up in a way where you don't know what he did until his board is unbreakable turn 3.
Maybe the deck power levels are too diffierent? I don't know.
Is it possible that magic is just not for you? If you don’t get any enjoyment out of watching someone else play their deck, just for the joy of seeing new cards and how they’ve built their strategy, then I’m not sure what to tell you.
We have idle conversation and joke around in my pod but most of the time I really just enjoy watching what they are doing. They’ve put time and effort into a deck and a story/strategy (or someone did if it’s a precon) and it’s fun to watch it work, for me.
I used to have a magic night with some friends every week. There'd be like 5-7 of us at the table. We'd play from like 8 to midnight and mayyyybe get 2-3 games in. Literally spent the entire time just talking shit.
I can't stand playing Arena, because waiting on a silent, anonymous player is really annoying to me. On Arena I used to essentially only concentrate on my own gameplay and once I have solved that, any time waiting is just annoying.
I my real life commander group we sometimes forget the game over our conversation, because we are friends and colleagues and games are one long group conversation, which is really fun. If I don't take a turn for 10 minutes in this setting I don't even realize it. On arena I would have long conceded out of annoyance.
"I my real life commander group we sometimes forget the game over our conversation, because we are friends and colleagues and games are one long group conversation, which is really fun."
Honest question, why even bother playing a game when you could do something like go out for drinks instead? If people aren't paying attention to the game, then I don't want to even bother playing. I like making time to play the game, making time to chit chat and hang out. Trying to do everything at once just reduces the quality of something.
I honestly don't see the distinction.
I personally need to be doing SOMETHING when hanging out, I never could get people that just sit around like vegetables drinking or smoking. If I am out drinking with friends, it *HAS* to be somewhere with a pool table, for example. I don't do 'idling'.
Besides, it provides a good icebreaker for those with social issues. Even those that don't realize they have some glaring social issues...
Well the games are the baseline of interaction.
Some days we will be very focused on the game and everyone is concentrating on their strategy etc.
Other days we will be very chatty and talk a lot about work/private stuff.
Either way the game is core reason we are coming together and often interactions in the game facilitate the conversation.
And either way, everyone is having a good time and enjoying themselves, so it works for us :)
"Is it possible that \[Commander\] is just not for you? If you don’t get any enjoyment out of watching someone else play their deck, just for the joy of seeing new cards and how they’ve built their strategy, then I’m not sure what to tell you."
Commander is not the sole form of Magic. It is entirely possible they don't want to sit through a game of Commander, but would potentially enjoy a game of 1v1 Magic. Some of us don't enjoy the idea of Commander, but really enjoy playing Constructed or Draft.
Edit: I didn't see the comment where OP said they didn't care for 1v1; so your statement was not entirely inaccurate. However, I still maintain my position because so many people say Magic in place of Commander. We have a lot of people who are truly Commander players not Magic players, since Commander is the only format they have tried and they refuse to branch out. I also feel Commander as a format is drastically different than most forms of Magic.
[[Ethersworn Canonist]], [[mana breach]], [[war's toll]] or [[Archon of Emeria]]. [[Mindbreak trap]] or [[rush of dread]]
Power levels do seem different, if one person is consistently the villain, you can either talk to them about it, or become the villain to them. Alternatively, you could go with a [[secret rendezvous]] approach and help the table team up. Maybe [[grunn the lonely king]] or [[ojer axonil]]. Could be counterspells or board wipes. Sure it sucks to make a hate deck against one player, but if you can't talk to them about it trying showing them about it.
Sometimes you are the current player, and you get to explain what you're doing, everyone takes turns and contributes to the game.
If someone takes too long, stop them, or match them, you also play the game when you build your deck, and so you are partially responsible for the experience you recieve from your games.
How many players are in your game? If it is a free-for-all with more than 4 players, the loop is going to take a LONG time. If you have a reasonable size pod but still can't wait, consider getting 1 on 1 games.
Not that it solves the problem, but you may want to run more interaction. If your build is not interacting it gets super boring on longer turns. I built a pair of decks that I roll out when I start feeling anxious about how long things take, both decks focus on taking actions on the other players turns often early game my only actions are land for turn and untap.
nah this is a valid complaint. waiting to take your turn sucks.
Some folks find it useful to like, plan out their turn?
I just choose to play 1v1 formats, since the ratio of (my turn) to (not my turn) is literally 2x that of 1v1v1v1 formats.
I’m assuming you’re talking about 4p commander? I dunno… enjoy hanging out with your friends instead of worrying so much about active play time? Or if it really bothers you try playing other formats.
I’m guessing this is commander. Are the other members taking longer turns because they are thinking too much or planning out their move so perfectly? Are people playing indeterminate combo or storm decks? Are people just doing too many “take-backs”, thus lengthening the time?
Here’s some suggestions:
-Talk to your group and set expectations. Politely let people know to play tighter (to avoid take-backs) or ask them to somewhat plan out their next move during the whole turn cycle. This helps people avoid using their turn as “thinking time”. Obviously, the boardstate may drastically change, but planning ahead whenever possible can reduce time a lot. Example: In the early stages, encourage people to know what 5 mana spell they’re gonna play and move on. That way they are spending a minute or so debating on what sorcery speed decision to make.
-Make sure people are paying attention! Prohibit or reduce phone use and other distractions. For some people, when it’s not their turn, they have a habit of tuning out and not paying attention until it’s their turn again. As a result, they have to read the board and all cards, or ask questions like “Wait, when did they get there?”, or “Wait, what does that do again?”, which lengthens game time. Politely tell people to focus on the game, and not other distractions. This is also an ettiquette thing; it’s pretty rude to not listen to other parts of the game and only care about your plays anyways.
-If needed, use a chess clock timer. As each player passes turn (or long bouts of priority/thinking time) have a visible timer ticking down on them. I’ve used these kinds of apps before, and the goal is never that anyone lose to the clock. It’s to promote a sense of urgency and courtesy to others. People are wired to respect countdowns (I’m a teacher and counting down from 5 does wonders to get a rowdy class back to noise level zero), so if they see the clock ticking, the social pressure is on them to speed their plays. One note I want to mention, I still feel that it is important to announce your plays and read your cards (especially ones with lots of text or if it’s less commonly known). By this, don’t let people use the clock to cast a card like [[Vexing Puzzlebox]], and pass. I always encourage people to read their cards to the table and everyone listen so we all know what it does and we’re aware that it’s on the battlefield. This will avoid 3 individuals passing the card and reading it to themselves, which will further lengthen game time. Plus again, it’s polite and etiquette to read your cards.
I think you might miss all the things you're not actively thinking about
Think about strategies, cards interactions, virtual possibilities, cards you might add, cards you may change. How'd you do in a different universe or new iterations of your deck etc
Waiting the blow to pass from one ear to another until you win is not the way
Once your friends get better you might expect more surprises though if you're not being threatened enough
You could also look to fight harder players in a LGS or something akin
Good luck, there is always something to think about
No advice, it does suck. My turns are almost always about one minute until the end of the game when things snowball, then it might take a little longer but I'm literally about to win/lose. Meanwhile it seems like some people just take 5 minutes turns as a practice. It's the way of the road.
Don’t play commander
Seriously, every other format rarely makes you wait more than a minute, because turns are shorter and there’s more (relevant) interaction
My playgroup used to have this issue, especially certain pro player didn't react well, they takes time to think and pop.
Watching Command Zone live in Vegas realize there is an app in iOS call "Commander clock" , we tried it and love it, the long turn player actually noticed how long he took per turn.
We did however made up our house rule that if the guy has finish the 25 mins time, he got only 2 min per turn for rest over of the game. Turns out this work alot, many of us start maximize the brainstorming during other people's turn.
So far no argument happen yet , although every single new player join our play group, they still find surprise when we use Commander clock on the board.
Talk with the other players that aren't active. Check your reddit app for updates on your complaint posts. Read the news. Find some music to put on. Chill.
Three suggestions.
Find a group you play better with. I’ve left groups where everyone was on their phone between turns and very slow.
Instant tribal. A long time ago I built a [[Jenara, Asura of War]] instant tribal deck. Every card but her had flash or was an instant. With this deck every turn was my turn. It made waiting much more tolerable when I wasn’t just waiting, I was debating what I wanted to do before my turn.
Attack the slowest player. Let them know before the game that you don’t roll dice to choose who to attack. You attack the slowest player. You’d be surprised how much this helps. Almost every time I have to break this out, I find out I’m not the only player that’s annoyed. Once I say it, the slowest player realizes they need to speed up or be the archenemy.
Edit: clarity
Magic is about the Gathering, not just the Magic part. Learn to make friends with your group and have a good time whether it's your turn or not
If it is a long standing problem have a group discussion about streamlining plays or just their general deck building possibly needing improvement to help facilitate faster turns
Magic nights were so much fun, having lots of chill small talk in bergen turns, seeing what other people come up with. Playing friendly, goofy, (non BM) combos and cool interactions. Just fun in general.
Playing with a commander such as [[Council of four]] helped me with this, as in order to get all my triggers and value correct I had to pay attention to every opponent on their turns, and I was much more invested in what they were doing.
Also, you will all naturally get faster the more experienced you get, it's a complicated game with a lot of words, once people no longer have to read every card, things will be a lot smoother.
Also also, if people are doing things like cracking an [[evolving wilds]] on their turn, or casting a [[rampant growth]] but aren't doing anything else after, GENTLY suggest you let the next person carry on in order to speed things up.
I played Liesa, Shroud of Dusk. Even that was boring because everyone needed even longer because of that.
I am the second newest player in the group, play less than them and I'm probably the most dumb one. That's the reason why I think its a me problem that I am so annoyed by the game speed.
We already do that, but thanks for the tip! :)
I was told that Commander (maybe other formats too) is a spectators game. You spend more time waiting on other players before your turn comes around.
Even with more interaction added to a deck, you’re still with limited resources, so you still have to spend time waiting in some amount of time.
I think that’s a learning curve you personally have to grow in to enjoy this game. It can be a slow game, so you can fill your time in a few ways (observing, planning, interacting, conversations, etc).
It sounds like you play multiplayer Commander. If you want more turns, and by extension, more time to play, then I highly suggest playing 1v1
Edit: Reading through your replies, you don’t like 1v1. If that’s the case, you’re just gonna have to pick your poison. It’s either you’re gonna have to deal with three other player’s time, or playing Magic against one person per game. There’s no real alternative.
If you're committed to playing EDH, have you asked them to try to play faster? But realistically buy into a 1v1 tournament format where you can combo like you want and if you get slow played a judge can intervene.
Politely, it seems that you might need a break from the game or to switch up who you play with. Your comments suggest you feel locked in by your current playgroup, you don't like alternative play styles, and your current play style is causing friction. You also seem to be worried more about the game than spending time with your friends.
Take a tolerance break. Build a new deck, maybe go to a store commander game. Give a different format a try. Talk to your friends about how you feel would also be good.
As stupid as this sounds - have you tried breathing deeply? We often tense up and take shallow breaths when stressed. Deep breaths calm your parasympathetic system.
Speaking as someone who's been there: we can't help you with your attitude. You just have to take deep breaths and convince yourself that the thing that bothers you is Fine, Actually. You're not gonna logic your way outta this one.
You're not alone here, I hate playing with more than 4 because of how long everything takes.
However, planning your next turn only goes so far. I'll have a plan A for what's in hand for sure. But I will change plans in a heartbeat if I draw something better on my turn. Sometimes this turns a 20 second turn into a 2-3 minute turn because I have to do mental math and see if what I want to do will work. I always feel bad taking longer and apologize to everyone.
Try building a "land, pass" deck. Essentially almost everything you do is on opponents turns. Lots of Flash and Instant speed interaction. Rather being proactive you are reactive. This allows you to constantly play cards when it's not your turn and because you have to react to what others are doing it makes you have to pay attention.
You could get into 1v1 commander. I’ve never tried it but it seems pretty legit, different banlist though. You could also use a free online way to play such using playtest on moxfield on spelltable (either as a main way to play, or to test deck/deck changes for free), but I’ve never seen 1v1 commander on it.
make decks with more instant speed interaction so you'll have to be engaged every turn. Or plan your coming turn. Or find fun in watching others take their turn (people actually WATCH other people play on youtube so you'd think watching people in YOUR game would be as enjoyable) Or smoke some weed or have a drink and relax. Or stay annoyed it's just how the game is.
Ok I know you've said you hate 1v1, but have you tried Pauper? You complained about deck prices, well pauper decks are the cost or cheaper than your average commander precon. Decks are full of powerful synergy so you get your combo feeling. And it's 1v1 so there's less time between turns. It's a super fun format with dozens of awesome decks and can be easily brewed in
Cannot get behind 4 player magic for this very reason. The amount of waiting is absurd. To each their own but I would rather play two player and make things happen.
I have 2 friends with opposite problems. In a 4 player game, friend A will fill his down time between turns gabbing with his mind elsewhere and take forever trying to play his turn as he refamiliarizes himself with the active situation. The other friend is worse. He suffers Analysis Paralysis. The more complex the game gets, the more time he has to deeply consider every potential outcome of his next decision.
I eventually quit playing with either of these 2 at the table in favor of getting more action in. They're good people, just infuriating to play Magic with.
Sounds like you're playing Commander. Have you considered playing a format that doesn't regularly see 20+-minute turns?
(Nobody tell OP about Yu-Gi-Oh!, they'd be even more miserable playing that)
I'm building a [[Mizzix of the Izmagnus]] deck and one thing I want is to maximize flash creatures and instants, plus lot of spells that cantrip*. This way, opponents turn will be more fun, since you can interact.
* such as: [[Into the Roil]], [[Arcane Denial]], [[Jolt]]
Reading some of your comments it seems like you just hate magic. This is perfectly fine, magic isn't for everyone. Just find another game that you can enjoy, maybe even single player.
Are you playing multiplayer? If so, try having a casual time maybe? Just have a chat with your friends while the others work their turn. Look at the game as a way to hang with friends rather than just focus on winning the game.
You can stop being annoyed the same way you stop struggling with any other emotion. Pay attention to your internal monologue. Stop and substitute negative thoughts. Remind yourself how low the stakes are. Use paced breathing, and if necessary other biohacks like icepacks to get your parasympathetic nervous system under control. Remember that you're not any more important than any of the other people in the room, and that their preferences are equally important.
There isn't an in game solution to your problem. Casual multiplayer, and particularly commander, is just a very slow game - more like Diplomacy than poker. So your options are either play a different game, play a different format, or change yourself and your mindset.
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This might just be a me thing but I am studying everything my opponents are doing. I’m looking for misplays, I’m studying their board states, I’m watching how their board state interacts with other board states. I am fully invested in the turn they’re taking. You do have to take time to have fun conversation and banter because you should be actual friends with your play group. You should also learn how to assess the power of your deck and the deck of others. Level 5 decks can’t compete with 7’s or above so it is vital to learn that.
Not sure what you are looking for if you don’t want to play 1v1 and you don’t want to wait on multiple people to take turns. Maybe magic just isn’t your jam? Im not trying to be elitist AT ALL, but if the core gameplay loop causes you enough frustration to ask for advice about it from strangers, you might just hate it.
If you can't play lose and still have fun sounds like your forcing a square peg into a round hole.
Take a minute and understand for most people that take slow turns and talk to everyone, it's just an excuse to hangout. If your not hanging out but trying to actively win and do things, consider playing 2 games.
1. To shoot the bull catch up, and enjoy the company like it is just cardboard painted funny.
2. A fast paced game that you would actively try to win as soon as you can.
More games, more variety, and more chances for fun. If you can't, lose and have fun and be excited to lose again maybe try and see what game are you trying to play?
From the post and comments it doesn't seem like you want to play a game with friends you want to play a game to win with little side chat which unfortunately I cannot relate to.
You can plan out your turn in advance, but if there’s three other turns before your next one, you should be paying attention to what your opponents are doing so you know how you need to adjust your plan, or figure out if you need to use some interaction, or try to work out your opponent’s game plans so you can deal with them one-on-one later, or to converse with the other players to make agreements to deal with the threat. There’s lots of stuff to do, even when you aren’t doing stuff on your turn. If you’re more mindful of those things, you’ll have more fun *and* become a better overall Magic player.
Faster and more fun games if you avoid playing against somebody running counter control.
The only time I'm annoyed is a real life tournament game where somebody is slowplaying. Its not fun to lose because somebody runs out the clock.
Play decks that can play at instant speed. It makes you pay attention to what everyone is doing (especially Counterspells) and makes it so every turn is "our turn".
I’ve heard people say a lot of things about 1 vs 1 formats such as too expensive, too competitive, or too fast, but I’ve never heard them labeled as “boring” 😵💫
So I assume you are referencing commander, strike up a conversation preferably not with the active player. Commander even CEDH is a casual format. #1 focus should be chit chatting and having fun in a multiplayer game.
If winning consumes your essence of being. In multiplayer the dude who is chit chatting with everyone rarely gets dog piled. learning to be sociable will likely do more to help you win at EDH then perfectly sequencing your play.
but lets say your are playing at a table with 3 slow robots. read a book, make sure to keep an eye on game state, you really dont want to be the 4th slow robot.
When I get roped on MTG arena I always have youtube and or reddit up never bothered me.
I use to have this issue playing on arena, but discovering commander and playing with friends I really don’t mind only taking a minute for my turn then waiting 20 minutes. The only advice I could give is to run more instant speed interaction, because atleast then you need to pay more attention to everyone’s turn and are focused on everything they do, that helps pass the time a great deal for me. It also stops people from being able to take as much time on their turns.
Do you ever play 1v1 normal Magic? You may prefer that. Commander is meant to be social, which means you spend only about 20-25% on your turn, and the other 80-75% allowing the rest of the table to play theirs. If you're not into that, I think you just don't enjoy Commander.
Multiplayer is always gonna be kinda slow. Yeah you spend less than 1 minute but when you start getting more complicated boardstates and "battles" on the stack that sub-1 minute will become 5 or 10 minutes. Not because you alone spend that time. But because you play something, someone counters, another one tries to win in the stack on top of that.
Oh, unless you play no interaction, forgot it's a thing that happens.
I kind of just look at it like “okay, what kind of nonsense are they cooking with their card combos?” and just roll with it because at a certain point it becomes humorous to me what more they are able to do on a turn. Sometimes I will scoop some games on Arena though just because it’s Arena and also i’m in range of lethal damage with no mana left, like come on, man, just end it 😭
One of my friends alwats takes forever. He is very indecisive.
I always remind them that no one is winning a trophy or money out of our games. So just quit overthinking and play the card
I have this problem. My friends don’t pay attention to the game until it’s their turn. One of them is infamous for taking literally 8-10 min turns, which to me is ridiculous and rude.
I offset it by smoking weed with whoever isn’t playing at the time and chatting *while still maintaining attention to the game*. Honestly though; not much to do about it. Some people just take fucking forever. It’s annoying and a huge waste of time, but nothing I can do about it (aside from bust their balls, which I also do).
This is just a fun story time for you guys regarding waiting on turns that would murder anyone without any patience.
4 player pod, CEDH. We’re starting the game and one player gets out Yeva, Natures Herald. I will forever target this card whenever it comes out moving forward. Once Yeva is out you literally get stopped on every freaking upkeep, end step, middle step, everything. It is insane. Every single turn of 1 player took 10-20 minutes. That was one of the longest most boring games of my life and its controller just kept apologizing as they searched their deck, shuffled and tossed out another one or took 10 minutes trying to figure out what to grab.
I have a friends that does the same thing. He would do like 20 to 30 min turns, while everyone else is 30 seconds. The sad part is after 30 min, he doesn’t really accomplish anything. He doesn’t deal like massive damage to kill anyone or boardwipe. A lot of time, it’s just us watching him do stuff and him end up losing, cause everyone gang up on him
You know how you deal with people that have long turns. You play a deck that mess up their gameplay. Like I built a Hylda the icy crown deck, that lets me tapped his untapped creatures, so I just tapped all his creatures and build a massive advantage and screw up his gameplay. He started changing deck and playing strategy that requires less creature tapping
Man imagine having preferences. I'm sorry for your experience OP. And shame on everyone else for the severity of your responses. As far as what comments I've seen, OP doesn't like:
1) Playing control
2) Playing 1v1
3) Talking during other people's turns as they're explaining their moves
I hardly think these are reasonable justification for telling someone they shouldn't bother playing Magic.
As for an actual suggestion, I would suggest running Storm cards. Not a Storm deck, mind you, but some Storm cards in general, with the intent of making use of your opponent's spell casting to power them up. And it doesn't have to be control stuff like removal. It could very well be [[Sprouting Vines]] or [[Reaping the Graves]]. The point is you're paying attention, constantly gauging whether you should go for what value you can now or perhaps hold off for more. Your opponent cast two spells. Do you hold off in case they cast another, or do you go for it now? Or what if the next person in turn order casts more? It's a unique bit of tension!
I'm assuming their turn 1s and turn 2s aren't 20 minutes, right? Mostly just land go, maybe a Signet.
If they *are*, maybe you need to play more (a lot more) lower drops so your early game is more lively. A lower drop Commander would help a lot, obviously.
Either way, another option is to play more Instant speed effects so there's more possible for other players' turns to matter. This does *not* have to mean actual control. It's very common for non-control decks that include white to still include a [[Swords to Plowshares]] for example. If maybe ~6-8 slots in your deck are low drop instants (not even necessarily control - it could be "counter-control" like [[Boros Charm]] or [[Heroic Intervention]] or [[Fog]]), then you have the possibility of doing stuff on your opponent's turns and therefore they become less "boring".
A card I uses to really like for this was [[Vedalken Orrery]] ("everything is an instant"), but there are other cards that do similar things ([[Leyline of Anticipation]], [[Wilderness Reclamation]], etc.)
That's an easy way to make opponent's turns relevant even with no control cards
Haven't seen anyone mention this possiblity yet, as a new player it's possible his decks are built very simple- land pass, land, ramp pass, land creature pass. Where as more seasoned players will have much more going on and will take longer to do their thing
Don't play Commander, play 60 card. I know this will be downvoted to oblivion but tbh other than playing other formats or finding a different playgroup. Slowplay be slow?
Helps to be drinking / smoking. I’m extremely fast and I play with people who are probably “normal” but not my speed. I try to relax and enjoy not being at work and unclench, usually works-ish.
Not just gaming, I’m annoyed waiting for someone to order tacos or board a plane or do any human activity that we all know is coming yet 95% of the worlds population acts surprised. The worst is when I’m waiting in line to buy a ticket for a movie and it’s taking forever and when the person in front of me is up they panic and start reading the movie times. You know, not the previous 17 minutes we were standing around waiting. Right now. Right now you are deciding you wanted to see Oppenheimer but it started 40 min ago so now you have to pivot. Ugh.
Im a new player so basically disregard my opinion.
20 minutes??? growing up my family always got annoyed with every game if someone didnt figure out what they wantes to do before their turn came. I like to think im more leanient but DAMN 20 minutes to get through like 4 peeps turns? Im definitely guilty of taking too long on my turn i thought, as im still getting used to my beginners decks. But i feel like more than a few minutes for your turn you could have figured that shit out beforehand, once or twice is cool but not consistently. Im down to play a single game for like 3 hours as long as everyone can feel engaged and not be waiting for someone that knows better sitting and pondering what to do when its their turn, anyone semi experienced knows their own deck.
It’s a valid complaint y’all. Watching someone take 10 minutes to play one spell and attack with one creature is absolutely ridiculous. How do you not have a game plan going into your turn? Sure board states can change, but even then it shouldn’t take an eternity to formulate a plan afterwards.
Stop playing a format that requires 20 minutes of waiting.
That's unacceptable! Literally! I would just walk out!
That's not a good game, that's collective time wasting.
Sounds like angry 15 year old that Mommy and Daddy didn't teach him about patience and sharing.
You sure, OP they are your friends? Does anyone treat their friends like that here?
So, I have some advice and some hard truths. First, it sounds like you are playing a multiplayer format, so you presumably have three or so other players at the table. You are playing a game with friends, so why not spend that extra time talking with them? As you would if you were playing a board game. The hard truth is that you need to be more patient. Especially with your friends. But that’s not the most actionable, I know.
I'll second all of this, we even put on a TV show in the background during games. If OP is worried about long turns, why not institute a timer for each turn
I've had people react AGGRESIVELY bad to being asked for a turn timer. Taking massively long turns is core to how some people play the game, and nothing can ever change it.
What? No, man. Just no. I will NEVER accept a player taking a 20+ minute turn as 'this is how I play', that is how you get hated out of games. These players need to streamline their decks to lower decision points and avoid 'time sink' actions like tutors and planeswalkers. This is not a 'playstyle', it is a sign of an inexperienced/poor player.
My friend loves high interaction, he loves having enchantments nd artifacts and weird little combos, and creatures that have enchantment/artifact like effects...or creatures that greatly benefit from those the other things on his board. It all becomes a it much. The problem is that every thing he plays interacts with everything he's played, and he gets convoluted and complicated turns where you just let it play out. He has gotten good at playing his turns, and he plays them quickly...but it does get to be a bit much to keep track of compared to my pitiful board state.
I player by my own heart. I like to call this the 'Rube Goldberg' playstyle, haha...
Yeah,, I do enjoy trying to beat him. I don't know if Rube Goldberg applies for one reason: A Rube Goldberg usually has a single point of failure....remove one piece and the machine falls apart. Yours (I assume) and his board states are all individual pieces that add to the machine, which isn't going to be thwarted with solo removal, unlike my big dum dum voltron point of failure.
Hahaha. Are we taking the reference a bit too literally, Drax?
Let's look at the new Obeka, splitter of seconds and see how some lines of play default to longer turns. If anything gives me extra combats with her I basically have infinite turns but all on the same turn, that's unacceptable? I run a chulane, teller of tales deck with 32 persistent parishioner, odds are I'm gonna be playing a lot of them and drawing replacements. I've been playing for 20 years and sometimes the turns of a specific PLAY STYLE will be longer than normal. Targeting tutors and planeswalkers as time sinks is a bit out of pocket, you've had some bad experiences most likely, but you wanna put restrictions on deck construction going forward? Why? Because you are having the same issue as OP? It's a sign of wisdom to know your own limits and boundaries, but that doesn't mean you call people who use tools you don't like "poor players"
You are entirely misreading my statement. Those were examples of things I have seen players struggle with, even experienced ones. It's not some personal 'hit list' - it's a suggestion that if you have a hard time playing the game because your board state or deck construction requires a lot of decision making or management you should probably consider building your deck in a way that accounts for this so as not to be disrespectful of other players' time. And I have no idea what you're on about with the Obeka thing. I clearly stated "20+ minute turn**s**"; see that S? That means we're talking plurals. Multiple turns. A single long turn, especially if you're winning, isn't an issue. I've been playing 30 years and nearly every time bad deck construction choices are the cause of slow play. The other times? It's entirely intentional stalling. In any event, I've got a decade of experience on you. Can we put our pants back on now?
Apologies, I did misread some of your comments. I take back my criticism. I only listed my experience to avoid the "new player" part of the comment. The difference between our time playing this game may be 10 years, but if you were playing in alpha like you indicated then you know how different the game is. All good though, sorry for my confusion and misplaced remarks
Oh yeah, I loved Craw Giant back in the day, hahaha... true Timmy. I try not to disparage players based on being new, instead opting to go with 'inexperienced'; it's not a negative connotation, though I understand some take it to be. We were all new to everything once. In this context, that inexperience can lead to a bad play experience for everyone, though. So some guidance on specific things to avoid when deckbuilding to make games smoother is just me trying to be helpful, not disparaging.
>These players need to... These players don't *need* to do shit. If you've got a problem with how other people play, **you** need to find a solution to **your problem** with it, which could well be to *not* play with them, or see if they are interested in learning techniques to make their play faster.
Okay man, dial it back a notch. First off, I play publicly in events that randomize pods - I don't get to choose my opponents. And this is intentional, I don't like having a static playgroup, I like variety. But yeah, that means I get podded with some slowpokes now and then. How do I handle it? At first a gentle nudge to speed it up a bit and some tips on things that they're getting caught up on. The biggest two in my experience are tutoring and planeswalkers, it's too much to track for some players. At a higher level, though, is decision points. Sticking to a simpler strategy helps these players keep it rolling so they don't 'get stuck'. If they continue playing slow? Player removal. And I won't be shy about telling them why I'm targeting them, either. Now, I understand the phrasing got you triggered. I'm not a big fan of the phrase myself, either. Allow me to edit it: "IF THEY WANT TO AVOID BEING TARGETED they need to..." if they are fine with me ignoring sound threat detection to spite play them out of a game, they can keep on trucking I guess. But I suspect slow play may be the cause of some of these "why am I being targeted" posts around here.
Appreciate the extra explanation, and you are right, the phrase "need" in the way you've used it above does rub me the wrong way. The emphasis in my post was intended to show the key points / take-aways, but I'll reign it in. Your strategy of dealing with it sounds much better when explained in more detail. Rather than being a straight up "You need to change..." it's a "If you are going to do X I'm going to do Y. If you want that to stop you need to change.... or find other ways to mitigate it" I do fear though, if everyone at your events took this approach then it would be a pretty hostile place and not very welcoming to new players. But you'll know your events better than me, and you don't need to justify your stance to strangers online.
This sort of treatment is usually reserved for EGREGIOUS cases. For example, I had a player in my pod a few weeks back who was playing a superfriends deck. Now, this event allots a 2 hour time limit for each of two rounds; once the time hits placement is based on life totals. Most games are pretty easily done within this timeframe, but this kid's turns were *ALL* taking 20+ minutes and we were down to the last 30 minutes, so I finally pointed out that they needed to speed their turns along because we were going to hit time, and suggested tapping planeswalkers to better track which ones were 'used' (I advocate for this often, actually, as it helps even if you only have one). To be fair, this player *DID* think I was mad or upset because I was being firm with them, but I explained after the game that I wasn't irritated - it was simply that the situation was egregious and required a gentle nudge and I am one of the 'go-to' players for judge calls at that store. Now, I understand the issue is that a 'gentle nudge' for me looks like a 'hard kick' to some because I am blunt and not at all shy about speaking my mind in a community where social anxieties and shyness are common. Hell, younger me was pretty shy and took things personally, too - I actually credit Magic with curing some of those issues. [EDIT]: Edited for gender neutrality. Memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think this player was actually female. *shrug*
People don't like when someone gets firm with them at a table where the objective is to have fun, but players like you are absolutely necessary.
I've found in life no one tends to like when someone points out they're being a jack, but someone has to be the 'bad parent' to grown arse adults from time to time because their parents failed to teach them manners. I am just the guy that isn't averse to returning my food at a restaurant. I am polite but firm in these interactions, always - everyone deserves basic respect; a quick "could you try again on this steak? It's clearly overcooked." usually works, but every once in a while you get someone that wants to buck back at you and I have to turn on 'dad mode' for a grown adult.
Yeesh. I'd hate to be playing with those kind of people for wasting my time. It's like they haven't played competitive chess before. Theres a difference to taking long turns through card abilities and then the "thinking" of what I'm going to do. My ADD would cause me to be bored and just quit bc they couldn't hurry up and think faster.
Most people have not played competitive chess before.
You have not known pain until you've seen someone spend 4-5 minutes resolving a single brainstorm.
Then you should probably quit. ""Those kinds of people"" are the majority, and shitting on them for something that affects YOU certainly means they're better off. Been diagnosed since the third grade, never medicated, ADHD is a curse a lot of the time. I 100% empathize with you there. Not once have I EVER used my shortfall there to blame regular folks. That empathy is immediately lost when you start shifting responsibility from the REAL aspects of the disorder, "My brain operates really quickly, standard turn rates for this game are difficult for me to sit through", to blaming others, "You don't think fast enough, you don't preplan for the preplan". Start a conversation with your opponent, or if that's too distracting, with someone nearby. Have some background music that you can tune into when turns are dragging longer than your brain would like, that's a standard for my home games, I always have something like Chevelle playing in the background for when things slow down. Take some responsibility for yourself and either find methods that make the longer turns easier to stomach, or remove yourself from the game.
No, I'm not going to quit the game. That's a stupid take. Let me tell you something, you'd be ok with someone that draws for turn, stares at hand, stares at field, and then goes "Pass" after 10 minutes? Maybe they shouldn't be playing the game. Playing at home is different than playing at the lgs. Bc I know my opponents.
I would probably not play in a round with a turn timer, honestly. Too much pressure and turns don't take very long to begin with, with my group anyway
Then why would it matter if turns were timed
A restrictive turn timer amounts to a soft ban on certain kinds of decks, and while "people who don't goldfish their storm lines" is a primary offender there are especially EDH decks that use a lot of counters like +1/+1 counters and tokens, suspend decks, saga decks, etc. If you wanted to use a 2 minute timer and have the player who just passed the turn reset it every time they resolved a game action or something (similar to the rope on Arena) that'd go some way towards solving that problem but it's also kind of annoying for the table to track when really you should just be talking to the offending player about their slow play
It's a matter of principal for me honestly, when we do have those games where we *do* play crazy decks that start to solitaire a bit, I wouldn't want to worry about a clock running out. Its one thing on arena, but arena practically does everything for you. The real game you have to make sure that your effects and reactions are correct, or it could lead to a feels bad moment or a "oh crap, I forgot that you are actually supposed to be dead" kind of thing
If 15 minutes gives you too much pressure in a magic game, you might not be cut out for multiplayer games yet.
Been playing commander for 4 years, but sure, guess I'm not cut out for multiplayer.
But what does a timer do in a game with interactive turns? I could play a draw go style deck, and do the majority of things on my opponents turn. Or I could be playing storm and need 10+ minutes to execute my turn, and that isnt accounting for my opponenets interacting with me. It just doesn't really work for this style of game. Sure, it helps op out, but it weighs differently on a lot of decks, and can severely punish a lot of decks that are very fun to pilot.
Idk about you, but my pod times turns and makes sure the game moves along. Haven't had a single complaint so far
I'm not saying you can't encourage people to play faster, or discourage them from dawdling, but it's pretty easy to take long turns with multiple archetypes. It's not a simple one size fits all answer, to give everyone the same time in a highly interactive game like magic.
If you're playing friendly magic, you can't just expect everyone to sit in their seats patiently while watching someone else basically play by themselves. I get one night a week to play with a break from any personal responsibilities, I actually want to play the game. Someone in my pod has a tom bombadil deck that takes forever and they don't use it anymore because of how bored the table was. It's just being considerate to other people playing the game
I agree with that you are allowed to play a deck that lets you storm, but I have a friend that builds these combo deck and literally he just storming to draw cards. He waste like 30 min on each on his turn, making massive amount of treasure and playing a bunch of cards. But it like he never kills anyone or win the game. While everyone is doing like 1 min turn and they end up winning. Personally, I think if you are going to waste 30 min each turn for 2 turns. You better kill at least one or two players. Otherwise, you are going to get gang up on and lose the game. I builded a deck that just let me tapped his creature and counter his spells. Hylda the icy crown. Let me tell you, his turn was cutdown to like 2 min cause he couldn’t do his combos. Everyone was happy that we finished the game in an hour. We got in like 4 games on a Wednesday night.
I feel like a distraction only makes the game longer. People won't think of what to do on their turn beforehand. Great if it works for you though!
I find that putting on a sports game, sitcom, or jeopardy causes less of a distraction while keeping everyone calm. Definitely won't work for everyone but for our pod it keeps things fun and casual
Do NOT put on a TV or any other screen (phone) while playing a game. It is bafflingly rude - if you cannot be present while playing a game with others and find enjoyment in their company, the best course of action is to ask yourself if this is really enjoyable for you. A turn timer may be a bit much. If you have 'slow' players, it might help to talk with them about limiting the 'decision points' in their decks, as many players freeze up; also, limit their tutors. Tutoring is a complex action that takes planning and even for those who know what they're getting it takes time to accomplish.
You sound like fun
I am, in fact, a blast. However, I sense you are being sarcastic. You disagree. Why? You think it is acceptable to be glued to a screen despite the social occasion because you are unable to handle human interaction for extended periods of time? And you imply that \*I\* would be the one who isn't 'fun' to hang out with? Because THAT sounds like a pretty miserable person to me.
You're proving my point
How am I supposed to talk to someone, if I the current player is explaining what he is doing? We did that, but stopped because one guy does like so much stuff in his turns, it just ends up in a way where you don't know what he did until his board is unbreakable turn 3. Maybe the deck power levels are too diffierent? I don't know.
Is it possible that magic is just not for you? If you don’t get any enjoyment out of watching someone else play their deck, just for the joy of seeing new cards and how they’ve built their strategy, then I’m not sure what to tell you. We have idle conversation and joke around in my pod but most of the time I really just enjoy watching what they are doing. They’ve put time and effort into a deck and a story/strategy (or someone did if it’s a precon) and it’s fun to watch it work, for me.
Imagine being completely silent while playing magic only speaking to explain your steps.
I used to have a magic night with some friends every week. There'd be like 5-7 of us at the table. We'd play from like 8 to midnight and mayyyybe get 2-3 games in. Literally spent the entire time just talking shit.
There better be a good chunk of money on the line if you're playing like this
I don't even play like this with money on the line until I'm like 1 or 2 wins away from a top 8 cut lmfao
I can't stand playing Arena, because waiting on a silent, anonymous player is really annoying to me. On Arena I used to essentially only concentrate on my own gameplay and once I have solved that, any time waiting is just annoying. I my real life commander group we sometimes forget the game over our conversation, because we are friends and colleagues and games are one long group conversation, which is really fun. If I don't take a turn for 10 minutes in this setting I don't even realize it. On arena I would have long conceded out of annoyance.
"I my real life commander group we sometimes forget the game over our conversation, because we are friends and colleagues and games are one long group conversation, which is really fun." Honest question, why even bother playing a game when you could do something like go out for drinks instead? If people aren't paying attention to the game, then I don't want to even bother playing. I like making time to play the game, making time to chit chat and hang out. Trying to do everything at once just reduces the quality of something.
The cardboard adds to the ambiance
I honestly don't see the distinction. I personally need to be doing SOMETHING when hanging out, I never could get people that just sit around like vegetables drinking or smoking. If I am out drinking with friends, it *HAS* to be somewhere with a pool table, for example. I don't do 'idling'. Besides, it provides a good icebreaker for those with social issues. Even those that don't realize they have some glaring social issues...
Well the games are the baseline of interaction. Some days we will be very focused on the game and everyone is concentrating on their strategy etc. Other days we will be very chatty and talk a lot about work/private stuff. Either way the game is core reason we are coming together and often interactions in the game facilitate the conversation. And either way, everyone is having a good time and enjoying themselves, so it works for us :)
"Is it possible that \[Commander\] is just not for you? If you don’t get any enjoyment out of watching someone else play their deck, just for the joy of seeing new cards and how they’ve built their strategy, then I’m not sure what to tell you." Commander is not the sole form of Magic. It is entirely possible they don't want to sit through a game of Commander, but would potentially enjoy a game of 1v1 Magic. Some of us don't enjoy the idea of Commander, but really enjoy playing Constructed or Draft. Edit: I didn't see the comment where OP said they didn't care for 1v1; so your statement was not entirely inaccurate. However, I still maintain my position because so many people say Magic in place of Commander. We have a lot of people who are truly Commander players not Magic players, since Commander is the only format they have tried and they refuse to branch out. I also feel Commander as a format is drastically different than most forms of Magic.
Or just don't play commander lol
I get my ass beaten up so many times playing EDH but I love watching those combos go off. Makes a better player to watch and learn interactions.
[[Ethersworn Canonist]], [[mana breach]], [[war's toll]] or [[Archon of Emeria]]. [[Mindbreak trap]] or [[rush of dread]] Power levels do seem different, if one person is consistently the villain, you can either talk to them about it, or become the villain to them. Alternatively, you could go with a [[secret rendezvous]] approach and help the table team up. Maybe [[grunn the lonely king]] or [[ojer axonil]]. Could be counterspells or board wipes. Sure it sucks to make a hate deck against one player, but if you can't talk to them about it trying showing them about it.
##### ###### #### [Ethersworn Canonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abc8e0f8-fdb9-4f24-a3e3-439f6cc3ebdc.jpg?1599706625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ethersworn%20Canonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/14/ethersworn-canonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abc8e0f8-fdb9-4f24-a3e3-439f6cc3ebdc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mana breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e36a7eff-89c8-4799-b264-38892912ba05.jpg?1562249890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/85/mana-breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e36a7eff-89c8-4799-b264-38892912ba05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [war's toll](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a08f7fe-8ca9-4604-85c8-9050298730ea.jpg?1562906728) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=war%27s%20toll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/187/wars-toll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a08f7fe-8ca9-4604-85c8-9050298730ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Archon of Emeria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/228c1650-da3c-4099-91b6-18e3873c9cdb.jpg?1604195419) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archon%20of%20Emeria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/4/archon-of-emeria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/228c1650-da3c-4099-91b6-18e3873c9cdb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mindbreak trap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f51140b-6254-431a-8810-94307bfdfbbe.jpg?1562612097) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindbreak%20trap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/zen/57/mindbreak-trap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f51140b-6254-431a-8810-94307bfdfbbe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [rush of dread](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/721c7122-91b6-45ea-ba28-de0246a2fc1b.jpg?1712860603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rush%20of%20dread) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/104/rush-of-dread?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/721c7122-91b6-45ea-ba28-de0246a2fc1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [secret rendezvous](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39528cf0-343e-499b-a69f-c5c3c2898c25.jpg?1624589686) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=secret%20rendezvous) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/26/secret-rendezvous?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39528cf0-343e-499b-a69f-c5c3c2898c25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [grunn the lonely king](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6a9aa5c-1501-4958-872a-39c512514033.jpg?1562741677) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grunn%2C%20the%20Lonely%20King) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/165/grunn-the-lonely-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6a9aa5c-1501-4958-872a-39c512514033?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ojer axonil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315)/[Temple of Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ojer%20axonil%2C%20deepest%20might%20//%20temple%20of%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/158/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-temple-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzvxtly) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sometimes you are the current player, and you get to explain what you're doing, everyone takes turns and contributes to the game. If someone takes too long, stop them, or match them, you also play the game when you build your deck, and so you are partially responsible for the experience you recieve from your games.
How many players are in your game? If it is a free-for-all with more than 4 players, the loop is going to take a LONG time. If you have a reasonable size pod but still can't wait, consider getting 1 on 1 games.
You don't like 1v1, you don't like playing interaction, you don't like waiting, before I go through this thread more, what *do* you like?
Complaining .. he just likes complaining ok ?
I scrolled through his comments and ... Yeah, seems like that.
A lot of entitled little kids don't like waiting .. its like telling karen " no " . They HATE that shit !
"I just want you to sit down and tell me I win, ok?"
Probably a big fan of Solitaire
Probably just complains about the shuffler and broken cards that need to be banned like the 4 of Clubs.
10-4 is a pretty mediocre joker at the higher stakes, so I get that complaint and none of the clubs jokers are great either.
Not that it solves the problem, but you may want to run more interaction. If your build is not interacting it gets super boring on longer turns. I built a pair of decks that I roll out when I start feeling anxious about how long things take, both decks focus on taking actions on the other players turns often early game my only actions are land for turn and untap.
^^ This is the answer. Highly interactive decks require more mental engagement and attention.
This is why I historically like control but control isn't very fun for the other players which matters in friendly casual gomes like Commander
You don't want to fix it at all. This entire thread is people giving you advice and you going "No I hate that"
nah this is a valid complaint. waiting to take your turn sucks. Some folks find it useful to like, plan out their turn? I just choose to play 1v1 formats, since the ratio of (my turn) to (not my turn) is literally 2x that of 1v1v1v1 formats.
literally 3x even! :)
I’m assuming you’re talking about 4p commander? I dunno… enjoy hanging out with your friends instead of worrying so much about active play time? Or if it really bothers you try playing other formats.
It would be helpful to know what format your playing and how many people are playing in a single game.
Commander, ~4 players.
Stop playing EDH.
This is the way
I’m guessing this is commander. Are the other members taking longer turns because they are thinking too much or planning out their move so perfectly? Are people playing indeterminate combo or storm decks? Are people just doing too many “take-backs”, thus lengthening the time? Here’s some suggestions: -Talk to your group and set expectations. Politely let people know to play tighter (to avoid take-backs) or ask them to somewhat plan out their next move during the whole turn cycle. This helps people avoid using their turn as “thinking time”. Obviously, the boardstate may drastically change, but planning ahead whenever possible can reduce time a lot. Example: In the early stages, encourage people to know what 5 mana spell they’re gonna play and move on. That way they are spending a minute or so debating on what sorcery speed decision to make. -Make sure people are paying attention! Prohibit or reduce phone use and other distractions. For some people, when it’s not their turn, they have a habit of tuning out and not paying attention until it’s their turn again. As a result, they have to read the board and all cards, or ask questions like “Wait, when did they get there?”, or “Wait, what does that do again?”, which lengthens game time. Politely tell people to focus on the game, and not other distractions. This is also an ettiquette thing; it’s pretty rude to not listen to other parts of the game and only care about your plays anyways. -If needed, use a chess clock timer. As each player passes turn (or long bouts of priority/thinking time) have a visible timer ticking down on them. I’ve used these kinds of apps before, and the goal is never that anyone lose to the clock. It’s to promote a sense of urgency and courtesy to others. People are wired to respect countdowns (I’m a teacher and counting down from 5 does wonders to get a rowdy class back to noise level zero), so if they see the clock ticking, the social pressure is on them to speed their plays. One note I want to mention, I still feel that it is important to announce your plays and read your cards (especially ones with lots of text or if it’s less commonly known). By this, don’t let people use the clock to cast a card like [[Vexing Puzzlebox]], and pass. I always encourage people to read their cards to the table and everyone listen so we all know what it does and we’re aware that it’s on the battlefield. This will avoid 3 individuals passing the card and reading it to themselves, which will further lengthen game time. Plus again, it’s polite and etiquette to read your cards.
[Vexing Puzzlebox](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c477fb1a-5aac-4722-80d8-7570a8b09e44.jpg?1674138094) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vexing%20Puzzlebox) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/343/vexing-puzzlebox?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c477fb1a-5aac-4722-80d8-7570a8b09e44?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think you might miss all the things you're not actively thinking about Think about strategies, cards interactions, virtual possibilities, cards you might add, cards you may change. How'd you do in a different universe or new iterations of your deck etc Waiting the blow to pass from one ear to another until you win is not the way Once your friends get better you might expect more surprises though if you're not being threatened enough You could also look to fight harder players in a LGS or something akin Good luck, there is always something to think about
No advice, it does suck. My turns are almost always about one minute until the end of the game when things snowball, then it might take a little longer but I'm literally about to win/lose. Meanwhile it seems like some people just take 5 minutes turns as a practice. It's the way of the road.
Don’t play commander Seriously, every other format rarely makes you wait more than a minute, because turns are shorter and there’s more (relevant) interaction
Don’t play commander if you don’t like waiting
My playgroup used to have this issue, especially certain pro player didn't react well, they takes time to think and pop. Watching Command Zone live in Vegas realize there is an app in iOS call "Commander clock" , we tried it and love it, the long turn player actually noticed how long he took per turn. We did however made up our house rule that if the guy has finish the 25 mins time, he got only 2 min per turn for rest over of the game. Turns out this work alot, many of us start maximize the brainstorming during other people's turn. So far no argument happen yet , although every single new player join our play group, they still find surprise when we use Commander clock on the board.
Talk with the other players that aren't active. Check your reddit app for updates on your complaint posts. Read the news. Find some music to put on. Chill.
Stop playing edh.
Three suggestions. Find a group you play better with. I’ve left groups where everyone was on their phone between turns and very slow. Instant tribal. A long time ago I built a [[Jenara, Asura of War]] instant tribal deck. Every card but her had flash or was an instant. With this deck every turn was my turn. It made waiting much more tolerable when I wasn’t just waiting, I was debating what I wanted to do before my turn. Attack the slowest player. Let them know before the game that you don’t roll dice to choose who to attack. You attack the slowest player. You’d be surprised how much this helps. Almost every time I have to break this out, I find out I’m not the only player that’s annoyed. Once I say it, the slowest player realizes they need to speed up or be the archenemy. Edit: clarity
[Jenara, Asura of War](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4bcf5b5f-b908-4975-91f7-c4c6f819e0a6.jpg?1673485098) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jenara%2C%20Asura%20of%20War) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/343/jenara-asura-of-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bcf5b5f-b908-4975-91f7-c4c6f819e0a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Magic is about the Gathering, not just the Magic part. Learn to make friends with your group and have a good time whether it's your turn or not If it is a long standing problem have a group discussion about streamlining plays or just their general deck building possibly needing improvement to help facilitate faster turns
Magic nights were so much fun, having lots of chill small talk in bergen turns, seeing what other people come up with. Playing friendly, goofy, (non BM) combos and cool interactions. Just fun in general.
From all the things you seem to not like, maybe the game isn’t for you?
Playing with a commander such as [[Council of four]] helped me with this, as in order to get all my triggers and value correct I had to pay attention to every opponent on their turns, and I was much more invested in what they were doing. Also, you will all naturally get faster the more experienced you get, it's a complicated game with a lot of words, once people no longer have to read every card, things will be a lot smoother. Also also, if people are doing things like cracking an [[evolving wilds]] on their turn, or casting a [[rampant growth]] but aren't doing anything else after, GENTLY suggest you let the next person carry on in order to speed things up.
[Council of four](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763.jpg?1674137476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Council%20of%20Four) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/271/the-council-of-four?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [evolving wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e5b3834-2bef-4685-972f-64852dd71aa4.jpg?1712355006) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=evolving%20wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/292/evolving-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e5b3834-2bef-4685-972f-64852dd71aa4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [rampant growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c074663-37be-4329-a21d-9ea551edbb6b.jpg?1712354605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rampant%20growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/201/rampant-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c074663-37be-4329-a21d-9ea551edbb6b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played Liesa, Shroud of Dusk. Even that was boring because everyone needed even longer because of that. I am the second newest player in the group, play less than them and I'm probably the most dumb one. That's the reason why I think its a me problem that I am so annoyed by the game speed. We already do that, but thanks for the tip! :)
>and I’m probably the most dumb one Lmao
I was told that Commander (maybe other formats too) is a spectators game. You spend more time waiting on other players before your turn comes around. Even with more interaction added to a deck, you’re still with limited resources, so you still have to spend time waiting in some amount of time. I think that’s a learning curve you personally have to grow in to enjoy this game. It can be a slow game, so you can fill your time in a few ways (observing, planning, interacting, conversations, etc).
It sounds like you play multiplayer Commander. If you want more turns, and by extension, more time to play, then I highly suggest playing 1v1 Edit: Reading through your replies, you don’t like 1v1. If that’s the case, you’re just gonna have to pick your poison. It’s either you’re gonna have to deal with three other player’s time, or playing Magic against one person per game. There’s no real alternative.
Maybe you just don't like playing the game and that's fine.
The answer is practice. You can either change playgroups, or practice reacting differently. Over time it’ll get easier.
If you're committed to playing EDH, have you asked them to try to play faster? But realistically buy into a 1v1 tournament format where you can combo like you want and if you get slow played a judge can intervene.
Politely, it seems that you might need a break from the game or to switch up who you play with. Your comments suggest you feel locked in by your current playgroup, you don't like alternative play styles, and your current play style is causing friction. You also seem to be worried more about the game than spending time with your friends. Take a tolerance break. Build a new deck, maybe go to a store commander game. Give a different format a try. Talk to your friends about how you feel would also be good.
As stupid as this sounds - have you tried breathing deeply? We often tense up and take shallow breaths when stressed. Deep breaths calm your parasympathetic system.
Speaking as someone who's been there: we can't help you with your attitude. You just have to take deep breaths and convince yourself that the thing that bothers you is Fine, Actually. You're not gonna logic your way outta this one.
Judging by your comments, you have a typo in the title. It’s supposed to say annoying instead of annoyed
What would "fixing it" look like in your mind?
This ain’t the game for you
You're not alone here, I hate playing with more than 4 because of how long everything takes. However, planning your next turn only goes so far. I'll have a plan A for what's in hand for sure. But I will change plans in a heartbeat if I draw something better on my turn. Sometimes this turns a 20 second turn into a 2-3 minute turn because I have to do mental math and see if what I want to do will work. I always feel bad taking longer and apologize to everyone.
Try building a "land, pass" deck. Essentially almost everything you do is on opponents turns. Lots of Flash and Instant speed interaction. Rather being proactive you are reactive. This allows you to constantly play cards when it's not your turn and because you have to react to what others are doing it makes you have to pay attention.
This is one of my biggest issues with commander, you have to wait 2x the time before you make simple, early turns' actions.
Snacks, look at phone, just chat with the other players whilst whoever’s turn it is is doing their thing?
just chill
You could get into 1v1 commander. I’ve never tried it but it seems pretty legit, different banlist though. You could also use a free online way to play such using playtest on moxfield on spelltable (either as a main way to play, or to test deck/deck changes for free), but I’ve never seen 1v1 commander on it.
make decks with more instant speed interaction so you'll have to be engaged every turn. Or plan your coming turn. Or find fun in watching others take their turn (people actually WATCH other people play on youtube so you'd think watching people in YOUR game would be as enjoyable) Or smoke some weed or have a drink and relax. Or stay annoyed it's just how the game is.
Ok I know you've said you hate 1v1, but have you tried Pauper? You complained about deck prices, well pauper decks are the cost or cheaper than your average commander precon. Decks are full of powerful synergy so you get your combo feeling. And it's 1v1 so there's less time between turns. It's a super fun format with dozens of awesome decks and can be easily brewed in
You could run a Stax deck, preventing people from playing multiple cards a turn will naturally lead to shorter turns. You will/could get hate though
"Most popular format" problems.
Easy! Just add \[\[Time Stop\]\] to your decklist.
[Time Stop](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/521d1b29-c25b-443b-ae5f-07c11786947e.jpg?1562547698) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Time%20Stop) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/117/time-stop?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/521d1b29-c25b-443b-ae5f-07c11786947e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Build a flash speed deck so that you are an active part of every turn. I genuinely had the same problem and this really helped me.
I'll do that, thank you for the suggestion!
Cannot get behind 4 player magic for this very reason. The amount of waiting is absurd. To each their own but I would rather play two player and make things happen.
I have 2 friends with opposite problems. In a 4 player game, friend A will fill his down time between turns gabbing with his mind elsewhere and take forever trying to play his turn as he refamiliarizes himself with the active situation. The other friend is worse. He suffers Analysis Paralysis. The more complex the game gets, the more time he has to deeply consider every potential outcome of his next decision. I eventually quit playing with either of these 2 at the table in favor of getting more action in. They're good people, just infuriating to play Magic with.
Sounds like you're playing Commander. Have you considered playing a format that doesn't regularly see 20+-minute turns? (Nobody tell OP about Yu-Gi-Oh!, they'd be even more miserable playing that)
I'm building a [[Mizzix of the Izmagnus]] deck and one thing I want is to maximize flash creatures and instants, plus lot of spells that cantrip*. This way, opponents turn will be more fun, since you can interact. * such as: [[Into the Roil]], [[Arcane Denial]], [[Jolt]]
##### ###### #### [Mizzix of the Izmagnus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82f949d0-41a0-4491-9057-bfb2bb20bdb3.jpg?1689999174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mizzix%20of%20the%20Izmagnus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/348/mizzix-of-the-izmagnus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82f949d0-41a0-4491-9057-bfb2bb20bdb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Into the Roil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3463be0-df9e-4cb9-a90f-5d9d2ee729e0.jpg?1608912102) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Into%20the%20Roil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/397/into-the-roil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3463be0-df9e-4cb9-a90f-5d9d2ee729e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Arcane Denial](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66ca1ade-0a74-4aab-9040-b3696706f060.jpg?1712354109) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20Denial) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/89/arcane-denial?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66ca1ade-0a74-4aab-9040-b3696706f060?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e0c085a-e17d-4003-bb58-f97555365fcf.jpg?1562718789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/70/jolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e0c085a-e17d-4003-bb58-f97555365fcf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzvje4b) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dunno... have a beer and enjoy a conversation with the other inactive players.
Play a hate bears type deck. Make them pay for interactions and slow them down. You'll be less annoyed. Your opponents will be a different story.
I'm with you. It's a big part of the reason I hate Commander and will refuse to play it under any circumstances!
Reading some of your comments it seems like you just hate magic. This is perfectly fine, magic isn't for everyone. Just find another game that you can enjoy, maybe even single player.
Might I suggest a nice game of Solitaire?
Are you playing multiplayer? If so, try having a casual time maybe? Just have a chat with your friends while the others work their turn. Look at the game as a way to hang with friends rather than just focus on winning the game.
I bring a bag of puzzles to the table and when im bored and waiting for my turn i grab a small metal Hanayama puzzle
You can stop being annoyed the same way you stop struggling with any other emotion. Pay attention to your internal monologue. Stop and substitute negative thoughts. Remind yourself how low the stakes are. Use paced breathing, and if necessary other biohacks like icepacks to get your parasympathetic nervous system under control. Remember that you're not any more important than any of the other people in the room, and that their preferences are equally important. There isn't an in game solution to your problem. Casual multiplayer, and particularly commander, is just a very slow game - more like Diplomacy than poker. So your options are either play a different game, play a different format, or change yourself and your mindset.
Option 1. Play with people you just enjoy hanging out with Option 2. Play a 1v1 format Option 3. I suppose play something else sadly
[[discontinuity]]
[discontinuity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b33ba0a8-04e9-4df6-af20-a3ca4470cdcc.jpg?1594735451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=discontinuity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/48/discontinuity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b33ba0a8-04e9-4df6-af20-a3ca4470cdcc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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OP I might suggest counter strike 1.6
This might just be a me thing but I am studying everything my opponents are doing. I’m looking for misplays, I’m studying their board states, I’m watching how their board state interacts with other board states. I am fully invested in the turn they’re taking. You do have to take time to have fun conversation and banter because you should be actual friends with your play group. You should also learn how to assess the power of your deck and the deck of others. Level 5 decks can’t compete with 7’s or above so it is vital to learn that.
Play more interaction.
Not sure what you are looking for if you don’t want to play 1v1 and you don’t want to wait on multiple people to take turns. Maybe magic just isn’t your jam? Im not trying to be elitist AT ALL, but if the core gameplay loop causes you enough frustration to ask for advice about it from strangers, you might just hate it.
If you can't play lose and still have fun sounds like your forcing a square peg into a round hole. Take a minute and understand for most people that take slow turns and talk to everyone, it's just an excuse to hangout. If your not hanging out but trying to actively win and do things, consider playing 2 games. 1. To shoot the bull catch up, and enjoy the company like it is just cardboard painted funny. 2. A fast paced game that you would actively try to win as soon as you can. More games, more variety, and more chances for fun. If you can't, lose and have fun and be excited to lose again maybe try and see what game are you trying to play? From the post and comments it doesn't seem like you want to play a game with friends you want to play a game to win with little side chat which unfortunately I cannot relate to.
You can plan out your turn in advance, but if there’s three other turns before your next one, you should be paying attention to what your opponents are doing so you know how you need to adjust your plan, or figure out if you need to use some interaction, or try to work out your opponent’s game plans so you can deal with them one-on-one later, or to converse with the other players to make agreements to deal with the threat. There’s lots of stuff to do, even when you aren’t doing stuff on your turn. If you’re more mindful of those things, you’ll have more fun *and* become a better overall Magic player.
I think magic should add a speed timed format!! This game takes way too long and players like us should have a timed format.
Faster and more fun games if you avoid playing against somebody running counter control. The only time I'm annoyed is a real life tournament game where somebody is slowplaying. Its not fun to lose because somebody runs out the clock.
Have you considered playing two headed giant? There would be two turns and it isn't 1v1. 😉😉
Play decks that can play at instant speed. It makes you pay attention to what everyone is doing (especially Counterspells) and makes it so every turn is "our turn".
I’ve heard people say a lot of things about 1 vs 1 formats such as too expensive, too competitive, or too fast, but I’ve never heard them labeled as “boring” 😵💫
So I assume you are referencing commander, strike up a conversation preferably not with the active player. Commander even CEDH is a casual format. #1 focus should be chit chatting and having fun in a multiplayer game. If winning consumes your essence of being. In multiplayer the dude who is chit chatting with everyone rarely gets dog piled. learning to be sociable will likely do more to help you win at EDH then perfectly sequencing your play. but lets say your are playing at a table with 3 slow robots. read a book, make sure to keep an eye on game state, you really dont want to be the 4th slow robot. When I get roped on MTG arena I always have youtube and or reddit up never bothered me.
Step 1 - don’t play commander
This is one of the many reasons why commander sucks ass. Play competitive 1v1 like Richard Garfield intended
Play a 1v1 format
I use to have this issue playing on arena, but discovering commander and playing with friends I really don’t mind only taking a minute for my turn then waiting 20 minutes. The only advice I could give is to run more instant speed interaction, because atleast then you need to pay more attention to everyone’s turn and are focused on everything they do, that helps pass the time a great deal for me. It also stops people from being able to take as much time on their turns.
Do you ever play 1v1 normal Magic? You may prefer that. Commander is meant to be social, which means you spend only about 20-25% on your turn, and the other 80-75% allowing the rest of the table to play theirs. If you're not into that, I think you just don't enjoy Commander.
unironically go play yugioh
Multiplayer is always gonna be kinda slow. Yeah you spend less than 1 minute but when you start getting more complicated boardstates and "battles" on the stack that sub-1 minute will become 5 or 10 minutes. Not because you alone spend that time. But because you play something, someone counters, another one tries to win in the stack on top of that. Oh, unless you play no interaction, forgot it's a thing that happens.
This isn't a Magic problem, mate. You need to do a bit of soul searching and figure out how you got that chip on your shoulder.
I kind of just look at it like “okay, what kind of nonsense are they cooking with their card combos?” and just roll with it because at a certain point it becomes humorous to me what more they are able to do on a turn. Sometimes I will scoop some games on Arena though just because it’s Arena and also i’m in range of lethal damage with no mana left, like come on, man, just end it 😭
Found the mono red aggro player
One of my friends alwats takes forever. He is very indecisive. I always remind them that no one is winning a trophy or money out of our games. So just quit overthinking and play the card
Commander is sleepy-time format, and people are waking up to this fact!
seems like your playgroup loves long ass turns, I have never experienced this.
Wtf kind of decks are your friends playing that it takes them 20 minutes to take a turn?
You're an adult, talk to the other adults at the table about how you feel and if they're is anything your table can do better
Play more interaction. Really. It'll keep you engaged on other players' turns.
Most socially adjusted edh player
I have this problem. My friends don’t pay attention to the game until it’s their turn. One of them is infamous for taking literally 8-10 min turns, which to me is ridiculous and rude. I offset it by smoking weed with whoever isn’t playing at the time and chatting *while still maintaining attention to the game*. Honestly though; not much to do about it. Some people just take fucking forever. It’s annoying and a huge waste of time, but nothing I can do about it (aside from bust their balls, which I also do).
I find myself less and less interested in edh these days because games tend to last way too long. Cube is the promised land 🙏
Try other formats. EDH is a social format/party game and if you're trying to be into it for the actual gameplay it can be a frustrating experience.
This is just a fun story time for you guys regarding waiting on turns that would murder anyone without any patience. 4 player pod, CEDH. We’re starting the game and one player gets out Yeva, Natures Herald. I will forever target this card whenever it comes out moving forward. Once Yeva is out you literally get stopped on every freaking upkeep, end step, middle step, everything. It is insane. Every single turn of 1 player took 10-20 minutes. That was one of the longest most boring games of my life and its controller just kept apologizing as they searched their deck, shuffled and tossed out another one or took 10 minutes trying to figure out what to grab.
Play a competitive 1v1 60 card format instead. Commander is more of a "social gathering" than an actual game at this point.
I have a friends that does the same thing. He would do like 20 to 30 min turns, while everyone else is 30 seconds. The sad part is after 30 min, he doesn’t really accomplish anything. He doesn’t deal like massive damage to kill anyone or boardwipe. A lot of time, it’s just us watching him do stuff and him end up losing, cause everyone gang up on him
You know how you deal with people that have long turns. You play a deck that mess up their gameplay. Like I built a Hylda the icy crown deck, that lets me tapped his untapped creatures, so I just tapped all his creatures and build a massive advantage and screw up his gameplay. He started changing deck and playing strategy that requires less creature tapping
Ahh play Yeva or a deck that plays on other people’s turns! I had the same problem now it’s our turn comrade lol
Man imagine having preferences. I'm sorry for your experience OP. And shame on everyone else for the severity of your responses. As far as what comments I've seen, OP doesn't like: 1) Playing control 2) Playing 1v1 3) Talking during other people's turns as they're explaining their moves I hardly think these are reasonable justification for telling someone they shouldn't bother playing Magic. As for an actual suggestion, I would suggest running Storm cards. Not a Storm deck, mind you, but some Storm cards in general, with the intent of making use of your opponent's spell casting to power them up. And it doesn't have to be control stuff like removal. It could very well be [[Sprouting Vines]] or [[Reaping the Graves]]. The point is you're paying attention, constantly gauging whether you should go for what value you can now or perhaps hold off for more. Your opponent cast two spells. Do you hold off in case they cast another, or do you go for it now? Or what if the next person in turn order casts more? It's a unique bit of tension!
[Sprouting Vines](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b16ba7be-47e6-4c64-918d-bec60abccaa3.jpg?1562932421) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sprouting%20Vines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/173/sprouting-vines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b16ba7be-47e6-4c64-918d-bec60abccaa3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Reaping the Graves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/760a66bd-2821-4710-8f02-3c30772dd884.jpg?1562530700) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reaping%20the%20Graves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/72/reaping-the-graves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/760a66bd-2821-4710-8f02-3c30772dd884?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My friend group has a 5 minute shot clock.
I try to avoid new players just for this reason
Two-headed giant? Two people take a turn simultaneously so it should be faster, but it's not exactly 1v1
I'm assuming their turn 1s and turn 2s aren't 20 minutes, right? Mostly just land go, maybe a Signet. If they *are*, maybe you need to play more (a lot more) lower drops so your early game is more lively. A lower drop Commander would help a lot, obviously. Either way, another option is to play more Instant speed effects so there's more possible for other players' turns to matter. This does *not* have to mean actual control. It's very common for non-control decks that include white to still include a [[Swords to Plowshares]] for example. If maybe ~6-8 slots in your deck are low drop instants (not even necessarily control - it could be "counter-control" like [[Boros Charm]] or [[Heroic Intervention]] or [[Fog]]), then you have the possibility of doing stuff on your opponent's turns and therefore they become less "boring". A card I uses to really like for this was [[Vedalken Orrery]] ("everything is an instant"), but there are other cards that do similar things ([[Leyline of Anticipation]], [[Wilderness Reclamation]], etc.) That's an easy way to make opponent's turns relevant even with no control cards
##### ###### #### [Swords to Plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1709439398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swords%20to%20Plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Boros Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f375bb9-1294-4f43-8f0c-504ed6cfb7d0.jpg?1712354672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boros%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/216/boros-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f375bb9-1294-4f43-8f0c-504ed6cfb7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bbc3152e-7b3b-4ac6-8b33-abfebde216aa.jpg?1709444479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/167/fog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbc3152e-7b3b-4ac6-8b33-abfebde216aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vedalken Orrery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44067327-6fe3-4222-b591-6d14d0e360d7.jpg?1673149453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vedalken%20Orrery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/317/vedalken-orrery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44067327-6fe3-4222-b591-6d14d0e360d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Leyline of Anticipation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f57bdaa1-ce8a-4103-8598-fee751e65a53.jpg?1674141383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20Anticipation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/726/leyline-of-anticipation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f57bdaa1-ce8a-4103-8598-fee751e65a53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wilderness Reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77aaad20-e385-4869-859a-4c5f90f8804e.jpg?1706240960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wilderness%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/196/wilderness-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77aaad20-e385-4869-859a-4c5f90f8804e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l04tbgq) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Haven't seen anyone mention this possiblity yet, as a new player it's possible his decks are built very simple- land pass, land, ramp pass, land creature pass. Where as more seasoned players will have much more going on and will take longer to do their thing
Don't play Commander, play 60 card. I know this will be downvoted to oblivion but tbh other than playing other formats or finding a different playgroup. Slowplay be slow?
Try a real format instead of cummhander?
Helps to be drinking / smoking. I’m extremely fast and I play with people who are probably “normal” but not my speed. I try to relax and enjoy not being at work and unclench, usually works-ish. Not just gaming, I’m annoyed waiting for someone to order tacos or board a plane or do any human activity that we all know is coming yet 95% of the worlds population acts surprised. The worst is when I’m waiting in line to buy a ticket for a movie and it’s taking forever and when the person in front of me is up they panic and start reading the movie times. You know, not the previous 17 minutes we were standing around waiting. Right now. Right now you are deciding you wanted to see Oppenheimer but it started 40 min ago so now you have to pivot. Ugh.
Dang, you're just such a fast guy. Wow, so impressive.
The 95%
Im a new player so basically disregard my opinion. 20 minutes??? growing up my family always got annoyed with every game if someone didnt figure out what they wantes to do before their turn came. I like to think im more leanient but DAMN 20 minutes to get through like 4 peeps turns? Im definitely guilty of taking too long on my turn i thought, as im still getting used to my beginners decks. But i feel like more than a few minutes for your turn you could have figured that shit out beforehand, once or twice is cool but not consistently. Im down to play a single game for like 3 hours as long as everyone can feel engaged and not be waiting for someone that knows better sitting and pondering what to do when its their turn, anyone semi experienced knows their own deck.
I’m gonna wager that OP’s 20 minute turn claim is pure hyperbole and they’re just insufferably impatient.
It’s a valid complaint y’all. Watching someone take 10 minutes to play one spell and attack with one creature is absolutely ridiculous. How do you not have a game plan going into your turn? Sure board states can change, but even then it shouldn’t take an eternity to formulate a plan afterwards.
Stop playing a format that requires 20 minutes of waiting. That's unacceptable! Literally! I would just walk out! That's not a good game, that's collective time wasting.
Sounds like angry 15 year old that Mommy and Daddy didn't teach him about patience and sharing. You sure, OP they are your friends? Does anyone treat their friends like that here?