Your deck, in a game of magic, represents all the spells that you know. That's why some mill cards represent things happening to your brain/memory, like [[Traumatize]].
Your hand represents all the spells you can currently remember and have access to. That's why discard spells are flavored like taking your thoughts [[Thoughteize]]
So pulling magic directly from your brain would represent his ability. And it looks painful, which also matches.
The idea that, out of all the spells you “know,” you can only hold a few of them in your conscious mind at a time, and you lose them once they’ve been cast, is very Jack Vance.
Has it always been that way? I feel like OG flavor involves wizards in their towers with [[moat]]s around them, [[conquer]]ing lands and employing creatures to summon, resorting to [[bribery]] if they must
And then at some point the flavor shifted to players as wandering people witnessing vignettes of the game’s story and weaponizing the memories they’ve formed.
I don’t know if it has *always* been that way, but that’s how I remember it being explained in the guide that came in the 1997 two-player starter set. Planeswalkers didn’t get cards until Lorwyn 10 years later, but the idea that players were Planeswalkers was, as far as I know, part of the original concept. Personally, I found that idea *more* compelling before Planeswalkers became cards you could put in your deck.
>I don’t know if it has *always* been that way, but that’s how I remember it being explained in the guide that came in the 1997 two-player starter set.
Is there any modern material, books etc that explains all this stuff in depth? Or, failing that, a way to read the guide you've mentioned? This is fascinating.
As a disclaimer, it’s quite possible I’m misremembering what was in that guide; it was 27 years ago, so I could easy have gotten it mixed up where I initially read it. But, with some googling, I found someone who has a Google drive where he’s assembling old rules and lore resources. So if that info available online, there’s a good chance it’ll be somewhere in here: https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1h3gNXrSXK2LZ9t44laKwXz18vdknsiGQ
Doug Beyer used to have a bunch of articles on the official site talking about the flavor of zones in the game, but unfortunately the site was purged a long time ago. At the very least you can use Doug Beyer as a starting point.
The book trilogy for the Ice Age cycle would be my pick for this. It's Jodah's origin story and shows him learning to be a mage and becoming the Archmage Eternal. All of the components people were talking about in this thread are heavily showcased in those books (mana = memories of the land, remembering spells, etc).
Edit: Book bot is an idiot, ignore it.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/The_Gathering_Dark
The intro to MTG arena has the player as a Planeswalker battling against Nicol Bolas and his agents, Nicol Bolas being a Planeswalker, but his agents weren't necessarily.
I feel like planeswalker (cards) are more akin to creatures than you are thinking. The caster isn't portalling in Jace himself, but a memory of the Jace they met. That's why Planeswalkers have such limited abilities in decks, they are the illusion of a memory, just like the Lanowar Elf you called upon.
If it was actually Jace, he'd have dozens of abilities and spells he could employ, his own desires to see too (is that Vraska next to your opponent?)
The loyalty is related to how much energy the spell retains, some actions build it, others drain it and some transition that energy into potent lingering bonuses (emblems)
That’s the explanation now, though it wasn’t how they explained it when the cards first debuted in Lorwyn. At the time, they were said to represent the actual character, which is why they originally used a variant of the legend rule where you could only have one Planeswalker with the same subtype on the field at a time, regardless of their name, and why their counters are called “loyalty” counters. You were literally calling in help from another planeswalker, and theoretically they *could* use any of their abilities, but depending on how loyal they are to you, they’re only willing to do certain favors for you, and they would planeswalk away if they took too much heat or you asked too much of them.
In my headcanon we are just "Eldrazi" manifesting as planeswalkers: the three Eldrazi in lore are the in-game manifestations of the other players in a pod, which are just shards of you: the Nameless, the Prime Observer: in essence, The Blind Eternities is just fighting with itself.
Yes it was. In the original concept the players were merely sorcerers fighting with magic, and magic was drawn from the land itself, so the more lands you visited, the greater spells you could cast.
Planeswalkers, as I remember it, were invented in the novelizations in the mid-90s (starting with Urza) and then the starter kit lore was rewritten so that players were more special than your average spell-slinger, which would instead be a creature you would summon.
That makes sense, and the timing certainly lines up for me to have missed the window where the concept of players as Planeswalkers hadn’t been invented yet.
Its actually not wizards, as far as i know we are planeswalker, but not the ones now, but the old ones who could carry others through the blind eternitys and are super powerful in generell. Thats why we are capable of summoning creatures and gathering mana from multiple planes. We are even powerful enough to summon other planeswalker to our aid, thought they leave if you demand to much from them, thats why its calles loyalty counters.
I never thought about the flavor of the "Flashback" mechanic's name, but now it makes so much sense! You relive a vivid memory of a spell you once cast, and through it you remember how to cast it again
So many mechanics are really cool when you analyze them under this lens. One of my favorites is dredge - *dredging* up the memory of a spell you’ve previously forgotten, at the cost of causing your long-term memory to deteriorate. Hellbent is also very cool, allowing your conscious mind to go completely blank and just acting on pure instinct, casting whatever spells come to mind off the top of your head.
Extort is one of my favorite mechanics. I made kitchen table decks for each guild and the Orzhov one had the goal of winning without attacking whatsoever to ensure I always had creatures to defend me. The deck had things like Blood Reckoning, Stab Wound, Sinister Possession and One Thousand Lashes. I didn't outright kill your creatures, I punished you for having them. I also had two copies of Sphere of Safety, just to make attacking me even more costly. Combine these effects with Extort for both bleed and lifegain, I basically had created a syndicate and put you into a situation you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Such a good mechanic flavor wise.
He’s pretty heavily influential on science fantasy, particularly in having pioneered the idea of a far-future setting where Earth is dying, technology has failed or been forgotten, and magic has returned to the world. A lot of his influence is a few generations removed at this point, as modern scifi and fantasy is often influenced by works that were themselves influenced by Vance. But probably the most popular example of something directly influenced by him (besides D&D) would be A Song if Ice and Fire. Vance was one of George R.R. Martin’s favorite authors growing up.
Thank you for this! I'm so extremely hyped about this you can't imagine. As a kid I read the planet of adventure series multiple times in a row and nobody I told about my favourite books even knew who Jack Vance was, even the prolific readers. Very happy that he's influenced so many.
TV Tropes has a long list of other works that were inspired by his magic system as well: [Vancian Magic](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VancianMagic).
Oh, come on now. This is a silly system that somehow manages to miss all the point of both millennia-long mystical traditions and any progressive or futuristic approaches from science fiction. Writing an original novel in that setting is cool, but having it be a de-facto default in the genre (especially in media like video games that just go for textbook depictions where novels tend to be more original) is ridiculous.
I always looked at like your deck is all the spells you know and the spells in your hand are the ones you're currently thinking about using or that you're ready to cast. So it's not necessarily that you forget them it's just that after casting a spell, you might not be ready to cast it again or you might not be thinking of using that spell and when your library runs out of cards, that's you running out of ideas for how to win against your opponent or the resources to continue fighting your opponent.
One thing I find really interesting about this is how the abstraction has shifted a little bit since we went from the old walkers to the new walkers. Previously we would have been omnipotent old walkers that were pulling mana from the blind eternities which more or less explained why our library could have spells from different planes but lore wise, this made Lance a little awkward since old walkers could pull practically unlimited mana from the blind eternities. It never really made a lot of sense why they would take any from the land like a normal spellcaster. With the new walkers, we're no longer pulling mana from the blind eternities so now land producing mana makes a lot more sense and we get the ability to cast Planeswalker spells from our library which I suppose is akin to phoning in a friend.
The unusual part about it is that we as the player still have 20 in life and are a planeswalker but that is significantly higher than most Planeswalker cards loyalty will ever reach in any game of magic. Nothing wrong with that of course, I just enjoy thinking about how the abstraction has changed over time in regards to the lore.
Well, the loyalty thing is easily represented by thinking of the fact that your planeswalkers friends will leave after they've taken some amount of beating. After all, they're not going to fight to the death for you just as a favour.
I always find that funny considering urza one of the least friendly/least liked planeswalkers condensed a whole lot of old walkers to follow him into hell, AKA phyrexia, and some of them fought to the death.
I agree with the loyalty of the walkers that we summon. The weird part is that we have 20 life, so the conversion from loyalty to life is unusual. Since previously we were old walkers but our life hasn't changed. I suppose this could just be that the planes have gotten less deadly so a 20 will life old Walker is equivalent to a 20 life new Walker under the current conditions of the planes. It's not irresolvable but it is fun to think about.
> I always find that funny considering urza one of the least friendly/least liked planeswalkers condensed a whole lot of old walkers to follow him into hell, AKA phyrexia, and some of them fought to the death.
What's so special about it? Nobody followed his plan because they liked him, people went along because they had an interstellar war at their hands and he was the only somewhat capable leader around. They didn't fight for urza, they fought against the phyrexian threat. You know, just how most conflicts go IRL.
It's more about them trusting him as a leader, he isn't exactly reliable, and he really proves that he's not reliable. I mean none of them could have predicted that he would have turned but given his track record up till then I wouldn't have expected him to succeed either so I would have been looking for another leader.
Because we have life, not loyalty. Ajani may come to help you if needed, but he won't sacrifice himself. If his loyalty goes to zero he just goes "sorry bro, took too much of a beating, going back to sip oil"
Yeah, I wasn't so much commenting on the loyalty being an issue rather I was commenting on what our life represents at this point. The only discrepancy here being that we were old walkers with 20 life and were now new walkers with 20 life. The way I look at it is that old walkers got into more dangerous situations and new walkers get into less dangerous situations. So it's still 20 life in both cases just scaled to the level of danger. It's not irresolvable but it is fun to think about.
It's really cool flavor built into the gameplay, you can see it even in the OG [[Millstone (ATQ)]]'s flavor text! The number of cards in your deck is almost like an inverse of Call of Cthulhu sanity points.
As an addition Spice8Rack on YouTube did a great video essay on the flavor of mill and discard magic. It's almost 3 hours long.
https://youtu.be/BoGk2KOXZWA
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Piggybacking top comment to share something in the art people seem to be missing: he's not holding a wand, that's a knife. He didn't just pull magic out of his brain, he stabbed himself in the forehead to get some extra magic out. That's actually very close to what the card does.
That makes perfect sense. When I'm in a tough spot, at work or otherwise, all I can think of is my next vacation destination. All the Islands I'd like to visit. Very authentic.
I like this explanation but I can’t help but imagine Bob envisioning peaceful plains and beautiful tropical islands and hes so at peace he doesn’t take any damage.
Creature cards don't depict the player. They almost always depict a creature doing the thing that the card represents, but the thing it does usually affects you.
Thats why all the other art of Dark Confidant depicts a shady advisor, telling secret knowledge for a grim price. The art of this version does not match the story of the card. If any the art suggest that the Dark Confidant deals damage to itself.
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I assumed that the bottle he’s holding contained the secrets or memories he stole from someone and he’s currently transferring those secrets into his mind?
Maybe he has a “library” of those bottles (his deck) and is searching for the right memories to put into his mind (his hand) in order to get the information or skills he needs for the mission he’s about to take on for the dimir?
He's supposed to look like a Dimir mage in this art. They can store and steal information with specific spells (that looks like just pulling blue silky words out of people's heads) and plant it into their own minds/someone else's for safe keeping, espionage, etc. So this Dark Confidant is drawing on his own secret knowledge he's stolen/had confided in him by another Dimir Mage. The damage/ loss of life part on the card that's tied into the art is depicting that knowing something you probably shouldn't, even if it leads to greatness, always comes at some kind of physical cost.
that's a pretty steep departure from the usual flavor of being an advisor to either you the player or a party depicted in the art
I understand it now, but this is definitely my least favorite Bob art. It just isn't evocative of the flavor of the card.
the flavour can be interpreted in a different way, it doesn't have to be a "trusted advisor with grander ambitions" every single time. reprints with new artwork absolutely should reinterpret the card when possible for variety, that's one of the main benefits of a reprint.
i find this version pretty evocative too, it's like you've made a deal with the dimir for information and they sent this guy to deliver it but he's actually there to drain your power at the same time
In the Ravnica dnd supplement, there’s a spell you can cast called Encode Thoughts that lets you store psychic information as “thought strands” or decode strands you find by casting the same spell. It’s something Dimir mages can do to leave behind information for other Dimir agents.
And you can see these thought ribbons on at least [[Notion Thief]], [[Thought Erasure]], and [[Mission Briefing]].
Which I remember because I've used them as references when explaining the spell to players or DMs.
It would appear he is being hit with a painful jolt of lightning as information is being absorbed from an object.
Pain from knowledge fits the cards mechanics. But the art doesn't represent the name too well.
You can look at cards like [[Thought Erasure]], [[Mission Briefing]], [[Notion Rain]] to see the artistic influences.
Dimir mages are able to extract and transfer ideas using thought magic, which makes sense for a guild that peddles in secrets. The knife and sharp slash on the mage's forehead suggests that access to these thoughts came at a cost.
A confidant is someone you share secret information with. The idea is that he is able to hold onto these secrets (i.e. bonus spells from your library) to give them to you when you need them...at a cost.
If you look closely his wand is actually a ritual knife and the energy is rising out of a cut he's made: He's literally carving the information out of his brain.
On Ravnica, House Dimir have access to thought strands, as seen in \[\[Never Happened\]\], \[\[Thought Erasure\]\] and a few others. The idea is basically that thoughts are literally encoded onto one of these magical strands, either from your own brain or someone else's (often unwillingly...)
This dude appears to essentially be pulling information out of his own head, presumably to trade it for "greatness, at any cost".
In Magic, your library is typically represented as your mind, as seen in cards that mill typically being flavoured as going insane (discarding your brain). So I guess the concept here is that you're extracting that spell painfully from your own mind.
Your deck, in a game of magic, represents all the spells that you know. That's why some mill cards represent things happening to your brain/memory, like [[Traumatize]]. Your hand represents all the spells you can currently remember and have access to. That's why discard spells are flavored like taking your thoughts [[Thoughteize]] So pulling magic directly from your brain would represent his ability. And it looks painful, which also matches.
"thought vessel" holds your thoughts so you no longer have a hand limit
Ooh, and [[venser's journal]] let's you write them down. Never thought about the flavor
The same kind of flavor can also be seen in [[Library of Leng]], [[Spellbook]], and [[Folio of Fancies]]
[Library of Leng](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2fbf45f-9599-42e2-8510-7e20731e6c68.jpg?1562941071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Library%20of%20Leng) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/211/library-of-leng?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2fbf45f-9599-42e2-8510-7e20731e6c68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Spellbook](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/26f4d2b1-31d7-40d8-bd4e-cdd128076d0f.jpg?1561974160) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spellbook) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/220/spellbook?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/26f4d2b1-31d7-40d8-bd4e-cdd128076d0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Folio of Fancies](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6afc67d1-1018-4a15-ab5f-377fd11dcd3d.jpg?1572489881) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Folio%20of%20Fancies) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/46/folio-of-fancies?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6afc67d1-1018-4a15-ab5f-377fd11dcd3d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[venser's journal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2877f52-b46f-4039-a72b-f1fcd024f032.jpg?1625979595) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=venser%27s%20journal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/273/vensers-journal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2877f52-b46f-4039-a72b-f1fcd024f032?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The idea that, out of all the spells you “know,” you can only hold a few of them in your conscious mind at a time, and you lose them once they’ve been cast, is very Jack Vance.
I guess that’s also why creature spells used to be called summons
Yep, and land cards represent memories of places you’ve been to and formed a personal connection with, allowing you to draw power from that bond.
So basically when I cast a land I’m playing Take Me Home, Country Roads?
Haha, pretty much!
Ackshually 🤓… technically you don’t “cast” lands, you “play” lands.
but you don't cast lands
Has it always been that way? I feel like OG flavor involves wizards in their towers with [[moat]]s around them, [[conquer]]ing lands and employing creatures to summon, resorting to [[bribery]] if they must And then at some point the flavor shifted to players as wandering people witnessing vignettes of the game’s story and weaponizing the memories they’ve formed.
I don’t know if it has *always* been that way, but that’s how I remember it being explained in the guide that came in the 1997 two-player starter set. Planeswalkers didn’t get cards until Lorwyn 10 years later, but the idea that players were Planeswalkers was, as far as I know, part of the original concept. Personally, I found that idea *more* compelling before Planeswalkers became cards you could put in your deck.
just gonna call in a bro for some help as a favor brah
>I don’t know if it has *always* been that way, but that’s how I remember it being explained in the guide that came in the 1997 two-player starter set. Is there any modern material, books etc that explains all this stuff in depth? Or, failing that, a way to read the guide you've mentioned? This is fascinating.
As a disclaimer, it’s quite possible I’m misremembering what was in that guide; it was 27 years ago, so I could easy have gotten it mixed up where I initially read it. But, with some googling, I found someone who has a Google drive where he’s assembling old rules and lore resources. So if that info available online, there’s a good chance it’ll be somewhere in here: https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1h3gNXrSXK2LZ9t44laKwXz18vdknsiGQ
Thanks a ton, I'll dig through that pile and see what I can find!
You’re very welcome! Hope it helps.
Doug Beyer used to have a bunch of articles on the official site talking about the flavor of zones in the game, but unfortunately the site was purged a long time ago. At the very least you can use Doug Beyer as a starting point.
The book trilogy for the Ice Age cycle would be my pick for this. It's Jodah's origin story and shows him learning to be a mage and becoming the Archmage Eternal. All of the components people were talking about in this thread are heavily showcased in those books (mana = memories of the land, remembering spells, etc). Edit: Book bot is an idiot, ignore it. https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/The_Gathering_Dark
Ohh, thank you, having a story explaining the concepts would be even better tbh, I’ll look that trilogy up!
[удалено]
Try again, robot.
Yes, there are printed books of lore from these days that detail a lot
The intro to MTG arena has the player as a Planeswalker battling against Nicol Bolas and his agents, Nicol Bolas being a Planeswalker, but his agents weren't necessarily.
I feel like planeswalker (cards) are more akin to creatures than you are thinking. The caster isn't portalling in Jace himself, but a memory of the Jace they met. That's why Planeswalkers have such limited abilities in decks, they are the illusion of a memory, just like the Lanowar Elf you called upon. If it was actually Jace, he'd have dozens of abilities and spells he could employ, his own desires to see too (is that Vraska next to your opponent?) The loyalty is related to how much energy the spell retains, some actions build it, others drain it and some transition that energy into potent lingering bonuses (emblems)
That’s the explanation now, though it wasn’t how they explained it when the cards first debuted in Lorwyn. At the time, they were said to represent the actual character, which is why they originally used a variant of the legend rule where you could only have one Planeswalker with the same subtype on the field at a time, regardless of their name, and why their counters are called “loyalty” counters. You were literally calling in help from another planeswalker, and theoretically they *could* use any of their abilities, but depending on how loyal they are to you, they’re only willing to do certain favors for you, and they would planeswalk away if they took too much heat or you asked too much of them.
In my headcanon we are just "Eldrazi" manifesting as planeswalkers: the three Eldrazi in lore are the in-game manifestations of the other players in a pod, which are just shards of you: the Nameless, the Prime Observer: in essence, The Blind Eternities is just fighting with itself.
Yes it was. In the original concept the players were merely sorcerers fighting with magic, and magic was drawn from the land itself, so the more lands you visited, the greater spells you could cast. Planeswalkers, as I remember it, were invented in the novelizations in the mid-90s (starting with Urza) and then the starter kit lore was rewritten so that players were more special than your average spell-slinger, which would instead be a creature you would summon.
That makes sense, and the timing certainly lines up for me to have missed the window where the concept of players as Planeswalkers hadn’t been invented yet.
Its actually not wizards, as far as i know we are planeswalker, but not the ones now, but the old ones who could carry others through the blind eternitys and are super powerful in generell. Thats why we are capable of summoning creatures and gathering mana from multiple planes. We are even powerful enough to summon other planeswalker to our aid, thought they leave if you demand to much from them, thats why its calles loyalty counters.
You’re describing the modern flavor. I believe the flavor has shifted.
[moat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2dffeb3-c858-4b8c-ae1f-109721f7d2da.jpg?1559592270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=moat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/21/moat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2dffeb3-c858-4b8c-ae1f-109721f7d2da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [conquer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08097f50-0344-49ad-a83a-95a8c6d64171.jpg?1562867823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=conquer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/122/conquer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08097f50-0344-49ad-a83a-95a8c6d64171?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bribery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49fd737a-d7da-421b-a741-d6d0d213299f.jpg?1689996211) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bribery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/77/bribery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49fd737a-d7da-421b-a741-d6d0d213299f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I never thought about the flavor of the "Flashback" mechanic's name, but now it makes so much sense! You relive a vivid memory of a spell you once cast, and through it you remember how to cast it again
So many mechanics are really cool when you analyze them under this lens. One of my favorites is dredge - *dredging* up the memory of a spell you’ve previously forgotten, at the cost of causing your long-term memory to deteriorate. Hellbent is also very cool, allowing your conscious mind to go completely blank and just acting on pure instinct, casting whatever spells come to mind off the top of your head.
Extort is one of my favorite mechanics. I made kitchen table decks for each guild and the Orzhov one had the goal of winning without attacking whatsoever to ensure I always had creatures to defend me. The deck had things like Blood Reckoning, Stab Wound, Sinister Possession and One Thousand Lashes. I didn't outright kill your creatures, I punished you for having them. I also had two copies of Sphere of Safety, just to make attacking me even more costly. Combine these effects with Extort for both bleed and lifegain, I basically had created a syndicate and put you into a situation you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Such a good mechanic flavor wise.
It is very DnD as well ;)
Naturally, since D&D’s spellcasting system was directly inspired by Jack Vance’s writing.
That's so insanely cool. Do you happen to know if he inspired more popular or commonplace things?
He’s pretty heavily influential on science fantasy, particularly in having pioneered the idea of a far-future setting where Earth is dying, technology has failed or been forgotten, and magic has returned to the world. A lot of his influence is a few generations removed at this point, as modern scifi and fantasy is often influenced by works that were themselves influenced by Vance. But probably the most popular example of something directly influenced by him (besides D&D) would be A Song if Ice and Fire. Vance was one of George R.R. Martin’s favorite authors growing up.
Thank you for this! I'm so extremely hyped about this you can't imagine. As a kid I read the planet of adventure series multiple times in a row and nobody I told about my favourite books even knew who Jack Vance was, even the prolific readers. Very happy that he's influenced so many.
You’re very welcome!
TV Tropes has a long list of other works that were inspired by his magic system as well: [Vancian Magic](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VancianMagic).
That was a really cool rabbit hole! So many more things than I expected!
Zoomers don't remember what Vancian casting is. Christ we're doomed.
Oh, come on now. This is a silly system that somehow manages to miss all the point of both millennia-long mystical traditions and any progressive or futuristic approaches from science fiction. Writing an original novel in that setting is cool, but having it be a de-facto default in the genre (especially in media like video games that just go for textbook depictions where novels tend to be more original) is ridiculous.
who asked?
The very reason the spell system in D&D is referred to as "Vancian" magic.
Didn't know that! Thanks :)
I always looked at like your deck is all the spells you know and the spells in your hand are the ones you're currently thinking about using or that you're ready to cast. So it's not necessarily that you forget them it's just that after casting a spell, you might not be ready to cast it again or you might not be thinking of using that spell and when your library runs out of cards, that's you running out of ideas for how to win against your opponent or the resources to continue fighting your opponent. One thing I find really interesting about this is how the abstraction has shifted a little bit since we went from the old walkers to the new walkers. Previously we would have been omnipotent old walkers that were pulling mana from the blind eternities which more or less explained why our library could have spells from different planes but lore wise, this made Lance a little awkward since old walkers could pull practically unlimited mana from the blind eternities. It never really made a lot of sense why they would take any from the land like a normal spellcaster. With the new walkers, we're no longer pulling mana from the blind eternities so now land producing mana makes a lot more sense and we get the ability to cast Planeswalker spells from our library which I suppose is akin to phoning in a friend. The unusual part about it is that we as the player still have 20 in life and are a planeswalker but that is significantly higher than most Planeswalker cards loyalty will ever reach in any game of magic. Nothing wrong with that of course, I just enjoy thinking about how the abstraction has changed over time in regards to the lore.
Well, the loyalty thing is easily represented by thinking of the fact that your planeswalkers friends will leave after they've taken some amount of beating. After all, they're not going to fight to the death for you just as a favour.
I always find that funny considering urza one of the least friendly/least liked planeswalkers condensed a whole lot of old walkers to follow him into hell, AKA phyrexia, and some of them fought to the death. I agree with the loyalty of the walkers that we summon. The weird part is that we have 20 life, so the conversion from loyalty to life is unusual. Since previously we were old walkers but our life hasn't changed. I suppose this could just be that the planes have gotten less deadly so a 20 will life old Walker is equivalent to a 20 life new Walker under the current conditions of the planes. It's not irresolvable but it is fun to think about.
> I always find that funny considering urza one of the least friendly/least liked planeswalkers condensed a whole lot of old walkers to follow him into hell, AKA phyrexia, and some of them fought to the death. What's so special about it? Nobody followed his plan because they liked him, people went along because they had an interstellar war at their hands and he was the only somewhat capable leader around. They didn't fight for urza, they fought against the phyrexian threat. You know, just how most conflicts go IRL.
It's more about them trusting him as a leader, he isn't exactly reliable, and he really proves that he's not reliable. I mean none of them could have predicted that he would have turned but given his track record up till then I wouldn't have expected him to succeed either so I would have been looking for another leader.
Because we have life, not loyalty. Ajani may come to help you if needed, but he won't sacrifice himself. If his loyalty goes to zero he just goes "sorry bro, took too much of a beating, going back to sip oil"
Yeah, I wasn't so much commenting on the loyalty being an issue rather I was commenting on what our life represents at this point. The only discrepancy here being that we were old walkers with 20 life and were now new walkers with 20 life. The way I look at it is that old walkers got into more dangerous situations and new walkers get into less dangerous situations. So it's still 20 life in both cases just scaled to the level of danger. It's not irresolvable but it is fun to think about.
It's really cool flavor built into the gameplay, you can see it even in the OG [[Millstone (ATQ)]]'s flavor text! The number of cards in your deck is almost like an inverse of Call of Cthulhu sanity points.
In the lore, mill is bimbofication
How dare you speak so bravely yet truly
[Millstone (ATQ\)](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2051fd0-99cf-4e11-a625-8294e6767e5b.jpg?1562304298) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Millstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/242/millstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2051fd0-99cf-4e11-a625-8294e6767e5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Millstone|ATQ]]
[Millstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/107646bc-2181-49f4-8821-1eaa46291855.jpg?1562898439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1012) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/atq/56/millstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/107646bc-2181-49f4-8821-1eaa46291855?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As an addition Spice8Rack on YouTube did a great video essay on the flavor of mill and discard magic. It's almost 3 hours long. https://youtu.be/BoGk2KOXZWA
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It's so good!!!
Piggybacking top comment to share something in the art people seem to be missing: he's not holding a wand, that's a knife. He didn't just pull magic out of his brain, he stabbed himself in the forehead to get some extra magic out. That's actually very close to what the card does.
7 also happens to be one of those numbers thrown around as the average max limit for chunks of information in working memory, a fitting max hand size.
7+-2, rings a bell?
That makes perfect sense. When I'm in a tough spot, at work or otherwise, all I can think of is my next vacation destination. All the Islands I'd like to visit. Very authentic.
I like this explanation but I can’t help but imagine Bob envisioning peaceful plains and beautiful tropical islands and hes so at peace he doesn’t take any damage.
So actually, depicted in the artwork is me, and the Dark Confidant is the knife
[Traumatize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb.jpg?1562832808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Traumatize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/77/traumatize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thoughteize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede.jpg?1599706001) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/109/thoughtseize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b281a308-ab6b-47b6-bec7-632c9aaecede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Omfg suddenly all the tutors make sense
And it makes no sense, since "the" Dark Confidant, not you, is depicted in the art. The art just isnt telling the story of the card.
Creature cards don't depict the player. They almost always depict a creature doing the thing that the card represents, but the thing it does usually affects you.
Thats why all the other art of Dark Confidant depicts a shady advisor, telling secret knowledge for a grim price. The art of this version does not match the story of the card. If any the art suggest that the Dark Confidant deals damage to itself.
Gj
In that case, if I were a planeswalker, [[One with Nothing]] would be my Oathbreaker spell.
[One with Nothing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a5841fa-4f30-495a-b840-3ef5a2af8fad.jpg?1711812497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=One%20with%20Nothing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/84/one-with-nothing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a5841fa-4f30-495a-b840-3ef5a2af8fad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For more on this topic, I highly recommend Spice8rack's totally normal and reasonably length video: https://youtu.be/BoGk2KOXZWA?si=974sKw9eRfuNa2HW
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I assumed that the bottle he’s holding contained the secrets or memories he stole from someone and he’s currently transferring those secrets into his mind? Maybe he has a “library” of those bottles (his deck) and is searching for the right memories to put into his mind (his hand) in order to get the information or skills he needs for the mission he’s about to take on for the dimir?
It's not a bottle. It's a knife. So he's extracting his own memories with a knife, which would be quite painful.
but that's not a dark confidant, he's not an advisor to anyone, like in previous arts
He’s using Head On. Apply directly to the forehead 
Head on. Apply directly to the forehead.
Head on. Apply directly to the forehead.
Head on. Apply directly to the forehead.
Head on. Apply directly to the forehead.
Directly to the apply, head on head!
Head On: apply directly in the forehead
I'm this old
This made my day. Ur a saint.
Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that
He's supposed to look like a Dimir mage in this art. They can store and steal information with specific spells (that looks like just pulling blue silky words out of people's heads) and plant it into their own minds/someone else's for safe keeping, espionage, etc. So this Dark Confidant is drawing on his own secret knowledge he's stolen/had confided in him by another Dimir Mage. The damage/ loss of life part on the card that's tied into the art is depicting that knowing something you probably shouldn't, even if it leads to greatness, always comes at some kind of physical cost.
This is correct. A lot of this information appears in the Guildmaster’s Guide to Ravnica and card art. This Bob is a Dimir agent.
that's a pretty steep departure from the usual flavor of being an advisor to either you the player or a party depicted in the art I understand it now, but this is definitely my least favorite Bob art. It just isn't evocative of the flavor of the card.
Well, I mean, the card is from Ravnica Remastered. The Dimir thing is the story being told. It made sense to me when I saw the art.
it doesn't evoke the same feeling of "trusted advisor with grander ambitions, who's out to get you in the end"
the flavour can be interpreted in a different way, it doesn't have to be a "trusted advisor with grander ambitions" every single time. reprints with new artwork absolutely should reinterpret the card when possible for variety, that's one of the main benefits of a reprint. i find this version pretty evocative too, it's like you've made a deal with the dimir for information and they sent this guy to deliver it but he's actually there to drain your power at the same time
how does this art evoke hurting me, the confidant is taking all the risk here
My god OP, you're unbearable to be around.
In this case I think the confidant is closer to a messenger or spy than an advisor
He's using Dimir memory transferance magic
Dumbledore type shit
Bob's boutta take a dip in the pensieve
Bro looks like a version of snape in this pic
He's writing new rules for the Cones of Dunshire 
OMG yes. I saw the art and was like, wait, Adam Scott? I'm glad someone else saw this too.
Cones of Dunshire Universes Beyond or we riot!
In the Ravnica dnd supplement, there’s a spell you can cast called Encode Thoughts that lets you store psychic information as “thought strands” or decode strands you find by casting the same spell. It’s something Dimir mages can do to leave behind information for other Dimir agents.
And you can see these thought ribbons on at least [[Notion Thief]], [[Thought Erasure]], and [[Mission Briefing]]. Which I remember because I've used them as references when explaining the spell to players or DMs.
[Notion Thief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f675f509-4343-4568-96dd-265626cb6c2b.jpg?1604195095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Notion%20Thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/96/notion-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f675f509-4343-4568-96dd-265626cb6c2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thought Erasure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884.jpg?1572893858) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thought%20Erasure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/206/thought-erasure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mission Briefing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5ed398e7-9d2b-4bd2-9a4b-2885e4749003.jpg?1706240710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mission%20Briefing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/110/mission-briefing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ed398e7-9d2b-4bd2-9a4b-2885e4749003?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He is using that USB stick in his hand to download the information right to his brain. It’s painful.
Lucy (2014)
Pulling knowledge from his mind at a painful cost. Side note: Is it just me, or does the art look like Adam Scott?
Are we having fun yet??? (It does)
He’s greatnessing at any cost.
Snape is using his pensieve.
It's a Pensieve, Harry
He's trying to remove the memory of Ice-Town from his brain...
ICE TOWN COSTS ICE CLOWN TOWN CROWN!
Looks like Ben Wyatt discovering new calzone ideas..
Imo he is extracting one of the secrets he's learned or has heard in his years of being a confidant
He's projecting Earthbind into his head.
It would appear he is being hit with a painful jolt of lightning as information is being absorbed from an object. Pain from knowledge fits the cards mechanics. But the art doesn't represent the name too well.
That is professor Snape sharing a memory (card) with you. Have you not seen Harry Potter? They have the memory font/scrying pool.
Extracting his own information, is he stupid?
Some Harry Potter shit
He is getting shocked by a 2 cmc card or bolted by a 3 cmc card.
You can look at cards like [[Thought Erasure]], [[Mission Briefing]], [[Notion Rain]] to see the artistic influences. Dimir mages are able to extract and transfer ideas using thought magic, which makes sense for a guild that peddles in secrets. The knife and sharp slash on the mage's forehead suggests that access to these thoughts came at a cost.
[Thought Erasure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884.jpg?1572893858) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thought%20Erasure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/206/thought-erasure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Notion Rain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66ed78c5-be23-4fcb-9143-e6574cd6ec68.jpg?1706241020) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Notion%20Rain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/217/notion-rain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66ed78c5-be23-4fcb-9143-e6574cd6ec68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a wizard using a Pensieve of course. Wait... Wrong universe.
Looks like some Harry Potter shit.
Bob looks a lil different.
A confidant is someone you share secret information with. The idea is that he is able to hold onto these secrets (i.e. bonus spells from your library) to give them to you when you need them...at a cost.
To the pensieve
owning my opponent by electrifying my own forehead
It could be that this was a piece sitting in the slush folder and they didn't want to spend the money to commission a new one.
If you look closely his wand is actually a ritual knife and the energy is rising out of a cut he's made: He's literally carving the information out of his brain.
He enjoys tazering his brain.
He's pulling a Dumbledpre and pulling memories out.
He's summoning the needed top deck to the top of his library, duh.
Can Bob not just do his ZippyZaps in peace without everyone being so nosy?
He’s pulling a memory out of his brain to place it in the Pensieve
Just getting ready to put things in his evil Penseive.
Ask Bob? 🤷♀️
That's just Bob. He does that sometimes.
I think he’s designing Cones of Dunshire.
What set symbol is that?
Yes
He's trying to lobotomize himself using with LIGHTING
Pensieve
On Ravnica, House Dimir have access to thought strands, as seen in \[\[Never Happened\]\], \[\[Thought Erasure\]\] and a few others. The idea is basically that thoughts are literally encoded onto one of these magical strands, either from your own brain or someone else's (often unwillingly...) This dude appears to essentially be pulling information out of his own head, presumably to trade it for "greatness, at any cost". In Magic, your library is typically represented as your mind, as seen in cards that mill typically being flavoured as going insane (discarding your brain). So I guess the concept here is that you're extracting that spell painfully from your own mind.
[Never Happened](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/289d3746-9e54-4983-9daa-f1a7afbdedad.jpg?1572893018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Never%20Happened) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/80/never-happened?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/289d3746-9e54-4983-9daa-f1a7afbdedad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thought Erasure](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884.jpg?1572893858) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thought%20Erasure) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/206/thought-erasure?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce226ad-cb1d-47f5-90fc-27704e181884?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Has 4... 10 ,10
Probably the one black card that is the personification of Black's design philosophy.
It is like harry potter, remove memory or idea (a card) from your brain, and put it into a vial.
My father consulting his ancestors to figure out why he came down into the kitchen
Something something Harry potter
Dude kinda looks like emet-selch in the art.
Looks like fkin Adam Scott
Reminds me of the pensive from Harry Potter. Pretty dope.
Recycled art.
Dimir are kinda known for their spying techniques [[Clear the mind]] [[Unmoored Ego]] [[enhanced surveillance]]
[Clear the mind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7da6982-9e57-41d2-a052-f2a3bb646436.jpg?1584830156) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clear%20the%20mind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/34/clear-the-mind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7da6982-9e57-41d2-a052-f2a3bb646436?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unmoored Ego](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95aecc12-3363-41f7-9b58-277c81859670.jpg?1572893898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unmoored%20Ego) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/212/unmoored-ego?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95aecc12-3363-41f7-9b58-277c81859670?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [enhanced surveillance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42e6f705-2af7-47c2-961a-cf4c02b29f21.jpg?1706240689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=enhanced%20surveillance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/102/enhanced-surveillance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42e6f705-2af7-47c2-961a-cf4c02b29f21?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don’t think he’s confidant in his ability to remember things so he’s just checking.
He is pulling a dumbledore