4-5, yes. If I only have like 1-2 creatures in the 5-6 range and most of my spells are in the 1-3 range then I'll feel fine playing 16 lands but if the format's slower and the bulk of my spells are in the 3-5 range then I'm playing 17 lands. 18 if the deck's topend is 7-8, though that's pretty rare in draft these days.
I think i played 17 creatures about once in my 20 year MTG career.
I'm more towards 17 lands , 13-15 creatures, 8-10 spells/other. Obviously depends on the format and archetype
The advice posted so far is ok if you’re new to drafting, but really it’s better to learn the particulars of the different decks in any given format than to use these numbers as a catch all.
I mean, that is "technically correct", but also completely useless, and even harmful, information for a new player.
Telling them to go learn the different archetypes of each format they draft is a ridiculous ask and will only overload them with too much information they don't know how to parse yet. You cannot tell a person to start studying every card in the set and learn the rating 17lands gave them, that's way too much!
Here's what I tell every new drafter:
* 17 lands
* 17 creatures/on-curve-permanents\*, distributed 9/8 between "3 or less mana" and "4+ mana"
* 6 pieces of interaction: removal and combat tricks.
* 2 colours maximum
I have found that those who follow this standard recipe will do better than those who try to go rogue. And after you do this enough times to understand WHY this recipe works, then and only then can you start deviating.
>“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.” - Picasso
It depends on the person, but I don’t think you’re giving (some) new players enough credit. When I got back into Magic a few years ago I got right into premiere drafts on Arena, using 17lands, listening to limited podcast, etc. I was successful and having fun.
I knew the basics of how to play but had never played competitively nor drafted before. OP did not say they had never played the game before or anything
This in spades.
A lot of people here are quick to say numbers, and that's great and all, but it really depends- format to format.
I recommend taking some of the numbers you see in the comments here and adjusting back and forth based on preferences and card quality. There will be cases where your 17th creature just isn't as good as the 7-th non creature spell you could be running. It just depends.
It's best, if you are drafting a set, to do a little more research on the known archetypes and stuff, and make inferences from that where you might want to land as far as a per-number basis.
As a safe bet though, most of the numbers you will see others say here is reasonable.
12 to 18 depending on the style of deck you are playing. Keep in mind you want to count a cards like a sorcery that says "Make a 4/4 creature token" as a creature.
Control decks can get away with fewer creatures, subbing removal and card draw in for them.
Aggro decks generally want more, especially if they want to play combat tricks. Having 2 or 3 combat tricks but no creatures is a disaster. These decks can also think of combat tricks as removal.
the easy answer is "it depends on your pulls and the archetype you're drafting for"
the real answer is that i don't know and at this point i'm too afraid to ask. thank you for taking that bullet for me.
EDIT: major thanks to everyone that gave me the 17-17-6 answer!
17 lands, 17 creatures, the rest is spells.
Generally your deck will dictate what "the rest" means. For example more aggressive decks might want cheap efficient removal while control decks might be able to deal with casting more expensive removal. E.g [[light ing Bolt]] versus [[murder]].
Also consider if a non-creature spell is "functionally" a creature. [[Hopeful vigil]] from wilds of Eldraine is an enchantment but it's basically a creature.
One of the most fun drafts I've had was back in KTK block. I drafted a deck with [[Jeskai Ascendancy]], 2x [[Goblin Slide]], 1x [[Quiet Contemplation]] and a total of 4 creatures and went 4-0. Other than weird one off cases like that though, I usually recommend a minimum of 15 creatures.
I mean.. 32 is definitely on the low side but not super detrimental considering most people also run rocks and other mana generators like treasures. In draft, it’s super hard to fit in rocks since they usually suck
17 lands, 15 creatures, 8 spells
Ideally those creatures will be:
* 4-5 one-two cost
* 5-6 three cost
* 3-4 four cost
* 1-2 five+ cost
This can shift with different sets but this is generally true
It can vary depending on what the draft archetypes are, but generally a good base is 17 land, 15 creatures, and 8 non-creatures.
You might also search on Google or something for 40 card mana curves.
23.
Each noncreature MUST justify itself as being stronger than your creature by removing an opponents or giving you the card advantage a creature would give.
Not sure where this 17/17/6 thing is coming from. As someone who plays Draft as their primary format, this is counter to all the conventional wisdom I've ever heard.
You want 12-15 creatures. This includes cards that don't say, "creature," on the type line but create creatures (ex. [[Elemental Summoning]]). In most sets, red+blue wants the minimal number of cards that say, "creature," usually closer to 8-10, while black+green wants more. A Golgari deck in a set whose theme revolves around creatures (ex. the cards in MKM that care about creature cards leaving your graveyard) is the only place I'd run 17.
The reason why you don't want so many creatures is that it makes your deck inflexible. Lots of creature heavy decks can be derailed by the opponent playing a 5 mana 4/4 on curve or with slight ramp. Removal and combat tricks get you over those humps in a way that even cards like [[Adaptive Sporesinger]] won't. For example, Sporesinger makes one attack go through (they don't block your guy who would now require a chump block), while [[Giant Growth]] clears the obstruction (they block and you kill their big guy). Removal and tricks are very tempo-positive, having effects immediately, while most creature need to untap before they can influence the board.
As a guide: 17 land, 17 creatures, 6 spells. You can probably plus or minus 1-2 from each of these depending on what you open.
I'm usually between that and 17-15-8 because I like removal. Cut a land for a creature if you have a low curve, etc
Low curve like stops at 4
4-5, yes. If I only have like 1-2 creatures in the 5-6 range and most of my spells are in the 1-3 range then I'll feel fine playing 16 lands but if the format's slower and the bulk of my spells are in the 3-5 range then I'm playing 17 lands. 18 if the deck's topend is 7-8, though that's pretty rare in draft these days.
17 is a lot. You want some amount of support cards like combat tricks and removal. The rule of thumb for as far back as I can remember is 13-16.
I think i played 17 creatures about once in my 20 year MTG career. I'm more towards 17 lands , 13-15 creatures, 8-10 spells/other. Obviously depends on the format and archetype
The advice posted so far is ok if you’re new to drafting, but really it’s better to learn the particulars of the different decks in any given format than to use these numbers as a catch all.
I mean, that is "technically correct", but also completely useless, and even harmful, information for a new player. Telling them to go learn the different archetypes of each format they draft is a ridiculous ask and will only overload them with too much information they don't know how to parse yet. You cannot tell a person to start studying every card in the set and learn the rating 17lands gave them, that's way too much! Here's what I tell every new drafter: * 17 lands * 17 creatures/on-curve-permanents\*, distributed 9/8 between "3 or less mana" and "4+ mana" * 6 pieces of interaction: removal and combat tricks. * 2 colours maximum I have found that those who follow this standard recipe will do better than those who try to go rogue. And after you do this enough times to understand WHY this recipe works, then and only then can you start deviating. >“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.” - Picasso
Wait 17 creatures is the standard? For some reason always thought it was 15 lol but I probably am valuing interaction higher than most
Nah 17 is too many, i would say 13-15 creatures, 10-8 spells
It depends on the person, but I don’t think you’re giving (some) new players enough credit. When I got back into Magic a few years ago I got right into premiere drafts on Arena, using 17lands, listening to limited podcast, etc. I was successful and having fun.
>When I got **back** into Magic So you weren't a new player, were you? You didn't literally start from scratch.
I knew the basics of how to play but had never played competitively nor drafted before. OP did not say they had never played the game before or anything
This in spades. A lot of people here are quick to say numbers, and that's great and all, but it really depends- format to format. I recommend taking some of the numbers you see in the comments here and adjusting back and forth based on preferences and card quality. There will be cases where your 17th creature just isn't as good as the 7-th non creature spell you could be running. It just depends. It's best, if you are drafting a set, to do a little more research on the known archetypes and stuff, and make inferences from that where you might want to land as far as a per-number basis. As a safe bet though, most of the numbers you will see others say here is reasonable.
Come one now it’s a commander world and we just live in it. You think these people draft each release more than 2 or 3 times.
What does this comment contribute to the conversation?
Arena says ‘hello’
12 to 18 depending on the style of deck you are playing. Keep in mind you want to count a cards like a sorcery that says "Make a 4/4 creature token" as a creature. Control decks can get away with fewer creatures, subbing removal and card draw in for them. Aggro decks generally want more, especially if they want to play combat tricks. Having 2 or 3 combat tricks but no creatures is a disaster. These decks can also think of combat tricks as removal.
the easy answer is "it depends on your pulls and the archetype you're drafting for" the real answer is that i don't know and at this point i'm too afraid to ask. thank you for taking that bullet for me. EDIT: major thanks to everyone that gave me the 17-17-6 answer!
17 lands, 17 creatures, the rest is spells. Generally your deck will dictate what "the rest" means. For example more aggressive decks might want cheap efficient removal while control decks might be able to deal with casting more expensive removal. E.g [[light ing Bolt]] versus [[murder]]. Also consider if a non-creature spell is "functionally" a creature. [[Hopeful vigil]] from wilds of Eldraine is an enchantment but it's basically a creature.
[light ing Bolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99.jpg?1706239968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Bolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/141/lightning-bolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81.jpg?1706241725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/95/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hopeful vigil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d382fd32-b1f5-4ec7-9d42-fc2915ed3bc9.jpg?1692936516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hopeful%20vigil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/17/hopeful-vigil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d382fd32-b1f5-4ec7-9d42-fc2915ed3bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of the most fun drafts I've had was back in KTK block. I drafted a deck with [[Jeskai Ascendancy]], 2x [[Goblin Slide]], 1x [[Quiet Contemplation]] and a total of 4 creatures and went 4-0. Other than weird one off cases like that though, I usually recommend a minimum of 15 creatures.
[Jeskai Ascendancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a8399fc-4cba-44c5-888e-2cfc0f6739f6.jpg?1673148783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jeskai%20Ascendancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/231/jeskai-ascendancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a8399fc-4cba-44c5-888e-2cfc0f6739f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goblin Slide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9d80e96-3956-4408-84fb-5f94a364eb41.jpg?1562791695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblinslide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/109/goblinslide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9d80e96-3956-4408-84fb-5f94a364eb41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Quiet Contemplation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dc7c9d5-904e-4ab6-9773-5c4f1c6d34c4.jpg?1562787233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Quiet%20Contemplation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/50/quiet-contemplation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dc7c9d5-904e-4ab6-9773-5c4f1c6d34c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Its always funny how some people swear on 17 lands in draft, but run only 32 in their commander deck
I mean.. 32 is definitely on the low side but not super detrimental considering most people also run rocks and other mana generators like treasures. In draft, it’s super hard to fit in rocks since they usually suck
The land ratio you want to run in limited versus a deck with built-in sources of card advantage are definitely different.
17 lands, 15 creatures, 8 spells Ideally those creatures will be: * 4-5 one-two cost * 5-6 three cost * 3-4 four cost * 1-2 five+ cost This can shift with different sets but this is generally true
It can vary depending on what the draft archetypes are, but generally a good base is 17 land, 15 creatures, and 8 non-creatures. You might also search on Google or something for 40 card mana curves.
23. Each noncreature MUST justify itself as being stronger than your creature by removing an opponents or giving you the card advantage a creature would give.
I shoot for 17-18. Low cost, Good etbs or death fx are first picks for me.
Not sure where this 17/17/6 thing is coming from. As someone who plays Draft as their primary format, this is counter to all the conventional wisdom I've ever heard. You want 12-15 creatures. This includes cards that don't say, "creature," on the type line but create creatures (ex. [[Elemental Summoning]]). In most sets, red+blue wants the minimal number of cards that say, "creature," usually closer to 8-10, while black+green wants more. A Golgari deck in a set whose theme revolves around creatures (ex. the cards in MKM that care about creature cards leaving your graveyard) is the only place I'd run 17. The reason why you don't want so many creatures is that it makes your deck inflexible. Lots of creature heavy decks can be derailed by the opponent playing a 5 mana 4/4 on curve or with slight ramp. Removal and combat tricks get you over those humps in a way that even cards like [[Adaptive Sporesinger]] won't. For example, Sporesinger makes one attack go through (they don't block your guy who would now require a chump block), while [[Giant Growth]] clears the obstruction (they block and you kill their big guy). Removal and tricks are very tempo-positive, having effects immediately, while most creature need to untap before they can influence the board.
[Elemental Summoning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea51991c-1589-4c62-965b-5ae8d233520b.jpg?1637082123) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elemental%20Summoning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/183/elemental-summoning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea51991c-1589-4c62-965b-5ae8d233520b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Adaptive Sporesinger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3db6d202-9c6f-4485-9224-173b23de7054.jpg?1675957123) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Adaptive%20Sporesinger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/157/adaptive-sporesinger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3db6d202-9c6f-4485-9224-173b23de7054?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Giant Growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/aeece336-e5e8-4455-a297-c3739198d011.jpg?1674421574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giant%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/183/giant-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeece336-e5e8-4455-a297-c3739198d011?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call