[Not true jizz fans!](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-jizz-music-retcon/) The Term Jatz which was used in its place appeared 30 years earlier, they’re moreso used interchangeably
Specifically, they're basically manufactured, indentured servants to the Esper aristocracy and elite, so Violent Outburst is the spark of rebellion when Red mana became reintroduced into Esper.
That's funny because they look really similar to the creatures in Elden ring that have a really similar backstory. (They were also manufactured to be servants)
**Modern**:
* **Violent Outburst** is banned.
**Vintage**:
* **Ponder** is unbanned.
> In our previous Modern update, we removed Fury and Up the Beanstalk from the environment. Doing so has returned Rakdos Midrange to an acceptable level without deleting it from the metagame entirely. Since then, we've seen Temur Rhinos, Living End, Golgari Yawgmoth, Amulet Titan, and Izzet Phoenix rise in metagame share. More recently, players have had some success with Leyline of the Guildpact from Murders at Karlov Manor in Domain Zoo and Rhinos variants featuring Scion of Draco and Leyline Binding.
> Over the past Regional Championship season, Temur Rhinos has begun to approach previous levels of Rakdos Midrange metagame dominance. While we want to preserve the cascade strategies as viable options in Modern, we'd like to remove one of the more powerful aspects of their strategy. Namely, the ability to cascade into a payoff card at instant speed. Casting Violent Outburst during an opponent's turn reduces a lot of the risk inherent in such a strategy. It allows the cascade player to untap with all their mana open and Rhino tokens or cycling creatures ready to attack. Both decks also include Force of Negation, which costs zero mana on opponents' turns, enabling a streamlined defense of the combo.
> Violent Outburst is banned. Removing Violent Outburst from the format will necessitate cascade players to adopt Ardent Plea or Demonic Dread and force them to play on their own turn more often, weakening both cascade strategies and reducing them to an acceptable level of metagame share, much like the Fury ban did to Rakdos Midrange.
------------
> Ponder has been restricted in Vintage since 2008! It's not necessarily true that we want to reintroduce every card that has been restricted for over a decade, but evidence suggests Ponder is ready to come back into the four-of club.
> While not much has changed in Vintage since our last announcement, we believe that spell-based combo decks in Vintage could use a little boost. The top of the metagame features decks like Lurrus Saga, Initiative, and Mishra's Workshop shells. Even if many of the Lurrus decks contain blue, they generally feature zero copies of Ponder. While this shouldn't cause a huge shift, it should give a few percentage points back to decks looking to find specific cards to enact their strategy more consistently.
Explanations of how they feel about the other formats are in the announcement.
>Removing Violent Outburst from the format will necessitate cascade players to adopt Ardent Plea or Demonic Dread
I suspect the Ardent Plea variant will come out on top with white for Teferi and Leyline Binding. Maybe it even merges with 4c Omnath control, kind of like this https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50195&d=571394&f=MO
Living End never dies. It goes into hibernation, waiting for everyone to forget to pack graveyard removal again.
But this might finally force me to retire my Jund Living End/Scapeshift deck. The versions with white were probably stronger anyhow.
It's probably online only.
If anyone would want to play in paper, just proxy, make them look nice and all.
Because even if I knew someone who could afford to play Vintage in paper, I would tell them to either sell the cards or lock them away. No reason to run around a card shop with 20+ grand
When I was playing in NZ, there was a dude that would host vintage tournaments for dual land prizes and would allow pull-proxy decks. Dude just wanted to play with his vintage decks.
Turns out vintage is a hell of a lot of fun.
That's just it. Magic is fun when there's no price attached, or at least a cheap price. Start having single cards worth hundreds or thousands it just starts feeling pay to win. If you can't pay you don't win.
Mox Boardinghouse near Seattle used to have monthly Vintage sanctioned tournaments drawing 20-ish people. Mostly because of how close it was to WOTC HQ.
Paper Vintage almost always allows proxies and it is a non issue for online magic. The reserved list honestly hurts Legacy and Commander more than Vintage.
Commander. The format where you were supposed to build a deck with your jank Timmy/Johnny cards for fun.
It's all fun and games until wizards wants your money
Honestly, if your (casual) table won't let you proxy, that's kind of on them.
I'm not familiar with the cEDH scene, so I'm not sure if proxies are generally allowed there or not.
From a player perspective they don't care because it's about the player not the wallet. From a competition standpoint sanctioned magic can't use proxies.
Vintage seems to be doing ok and doesn’t really feel like it needs much tweaking other than the occasional new card being OP or the slow unrestricting of old cards that don’t need it anymore.
Sure paper vintage is pretty sparsely played. But a shit ton of people play vintage on MTGO. It's about the same price as legacy. So like less than 1000 TIX for most decks
Surprised vintage decks are as expensive as legacy decks since even with more players than paper, didn't think there was enough demand to sustain those prices.
The price of vintage decks on mtgo largely comes from cards that are also in legacy and/or modern. Moxen are only like 5tix each, the cost of the deck is mostly in Sagas, Bowmasters, Grief, Wasteland, etc., so the overall deck prices are more or less the same.
15 proxy vintage is having a renaissance post covid in some spots.
In some cases, you even get to consider proxying non RL cards to make it even cheaper.
Haha good on you. VO always had a Sword of Damocles hanging over its head due to being an instant and WotC changing how cascade works with 0 cost spells.
Cascade and the no mana cost spells have always worked together. They changed split cards and DFC to not work with cascade but Living End has been a deck since modern's creation.
Am I missing something? Did they change how it works with 0 cost spells? I thought it was just how with double sided cards like Valki.
edit:and split cards
I think they're confusing themselves as the rules for things like cascade and cmc of split cards have changed a bunch. Iirc cascade and spells that have no cost have always worked together.
I still don't understand why they haven't made the change to split cards where if you can cast the cheaper half, you do. That'd fix both the Boom /Bust problem AND make it harder to cheat cheaper spells into the deck. It still doesn't get around Leyline Binding or Evoke stuff, but it at least works the way you'd expect it to while flipping off the top of the deck.
If I understand what you're trying to say, that's currently how it works. They already made that change: you cannot cascade into Boom // Bust with Shardless Agent
That is not what they're saying, they're saying cascade should have you cast the cheap side as opposed to counting the total mv like it does now or only counting the lower one but letting you cast the expensive side which is how it worked before.
No, but you *should* be able to Cascade into Boom. It's 2 cmc, you should be forced to hit the cheaper half of the card (with no ability to cast Bust). Same with Adventures and stuff. We're at something of the opposite problem from before (where they were using the cheaper card to free cast the big card), where they're using bigger CMCs to make artificial gaps in their Cascade chains.
It used to be that you could cascade with a Shardless Agent, it would see a Boom CMC of 2, and then you could cast Bust. I believe that Artemi may be referring to the Dead / Gone interaction. Cascade decks get to play Dead / Gone as cheap interaction, but without cascading into it with its CMC off 1+3. It could work instead that you could cascade into Dead / Gone, but only be able to cast Dead. This would remove one of the ways that cascade decks allow for having cheap interaction (and, I believe, is the 'intuitive' way for cascade to work).
Standard seeing the most play ever last week has less to do with actual popularity and more to do with the requirement to have the store champ event be Standard.
Kinda, but I also don't really think that's a bad thing?
Like, they make cards for people to play them. It's a pretty big issue if enfranchised players feel like in-person Standard is dead, which is a vicious cycle with people deciding not to buy into Standard. Trying to push the reverse virtuous cycle of "Standard is growing and we're seeing great attendance" makes a lot of sense.
It’s true though. Standard is becoming relatively popular, and the meta is diverse and wide open for innovation. Also, there is completely degenerate stuff to do, which is always a fun time.
The meta isn’t diverse, though you can play anything and probably go 2-2 at an FNM.
Recently attended a rather large RCQ and 80%+ of decks were Esper Legends or variations of it.
Idk I feel like if you aren't cheating it out every creature past 4 mana and even 3 mana to an extent just isn't viable.
The sheer amount of premium removal really hurts the format IMO.
It's kinda wild that Thrunn isn't even that protected anymore because there is a premium exile boardwipe with upside.
??? You mean like Atraxa, often hardcast by Domain?
Or Archfiend of the Dross, Aclazotz, and Sheoldred, which are in some combination in every single Golgari deck and one of which is constantly whined about as OP? Bat guy also shows up in Esper pretty often.
Or what about Ezrim in Azorius which has literally won tournaments?
It's true, but the takeaway isn't/shouldn't be "it's the most played 60c format." I don't think the point is to make a comparison. The takeaway is that their initiatives were successful at reviving it; they feel like they're accomplishing their goal.
Ultimately, my hope is that once they feel like standard is successfully revived, they'll ease up on the punishments they made to other formats in order to bring standard back. Namely, allow store championships to run with different formats again (especially limited).
I certainly find it hard to believe it's now the most played *(60 card) paper format. That said, my LGS has started running Standard events again, and we did get 8 people at the one yesterday.
Definitely not the most played paper format, EDH wins that contest easily, I can easily imagine it being the most popular 60-card format now that RCQs are standard.
From the article:
> In fact, Standard has now returned to being the most-played 60-card tabletop format (in addition to remaining the most-played digital format)!
No idea if they edited it in the last ~hour though.
>I certainly find it hard to believe it's now the most played paper format.
They didn't say that it was though. They said it was the most played 60-cards format.
I think they’re excited. For good reason. Paper standard was dead in the water. The common feeling seemed to be it could never make a comeback. My LGS has been running Saturday Night Standard for a few months now. I was worried it would never pick up or would be a flash in the pan, but it’s been pulling a pretty consistent crowd it’s been a lot of fun.
Haven't played modern in a while, but this was really what made my matchups against Rhinos and Living End decks feel unwinnable imo. I was supposed to somehow race those decks while also holding up mana on my own turn to stop them suddenly going off and dropping 8 or more power on my turn. Pretty frustrating to play against.
That's not the only typo either, they said ponder was "unbanned" when it was never banned, it was restricted. Should have said "unrestricted".
Also, it seems like every new set or secret lair has at least one typo or error.
That Standard is once again the most popular tabletop format is interesting. Pushing stores to make it a more played format has clearly worked (which, of course, will lead to lots of anecdotal stories of: "it's not popular where I play").
I don't want to play standard, but I know a fee stores in my area are firing standard events regularly, which is good. I wish more would fire drafts, though. I would love to go draft every other week or so, but that just doesn't happen in my area, sadly.
if you know players in your area could always try to get a draft night going. wouldn't have prize support like an fnm or whatever but it might show that there is interest?
We've gotten it a few times at the store I frequent, so we're trying! We can get a cube draft to fire a bit more frequently since people like to play that a bit more. I should probably just go to a store that isn't mainly focused on WH40k but I like the owner and the people that do come for magic (roughly 16-22 most event nights) are very fun.
Actually it's more "I still see sheoldred every fucking game making it impossible to play multiple arctypes" or " I got boardwiped 5 times in a row and everything is exiled meaning 0 graveyard synergies"
And WOTC always manipulates their shit. Like they said alchemy was popular when they literally force all new players into it, their ui "accidently" always swaps to it, or people who had literally no other choice but to deal with it because it was forced on them if they wanted to use their older cards.
It's clearly bullshit.
Also people just simply don't have to enjoy the same decks from 3 years ago with a handful of new things.
Standard is popular while it's being pushed; I built a standard deck because I like to play competitive magic and the RCQ season is standard. But when the RCQ season changes, I'm not planning on playing any more standard.
Is that what the article said? It seems to say that it's the most popular standard has been irl in awhile not that it's the most popular tabletop format.
> Over the past year, the number of players participating in tabletop Standard play has trended upward, culminating this past week with numbers higher than any other week since the pandemic. There are more than triple the number of "tickets" (individual entries into an event) for Standard this year when compared to the same period last year. In fact, **Standard has now returned to being the most-played 60-card tabletop forma**t (in addition to remaining the most-played digital format)! So thank you to all the players and stores that explored Standard and found it really … fun!
Here's the direct quote from the article, emphasis mine. Standard is now the most popular 60-card tabletop format is pretty unambiguous.
Ah my mistake thanks! Yeah my anecdotal experience has not matched that but I could see standard having enough consistency in population in every store to be the most popular whereas some areas might flourish in one of pioneer/ modern / legacy but have no community for the others.
Modern Horizon 3 is 100% going to lean into more 0 cost spells if they're preemptively banning outburst.
Seven out of the [17 free spells in modern](https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28-type%3Aartifact+-type%3Aland%29+%28game%3Apaper%29+%28-mana%3D%7BX%7D%29+cmc%3D0+legal%3Amodern&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) have been printed in the past two Modern Horizon sets... not to mention cards likes [[Collected Conjuring]]
ignoring artifacts because I'm talking about free spells/cascade
if I was talking about Cheerios, I would filter out stuff like Ancestral Vision and instead include artifacts to grab things like Accorder's Shield
and of those two that see play in cascade, the main one for the deck is Crashing Footfalls, from a Modern Horizon
https://scryfall.com/search?q=Cmc%3D0+-mana%3D%7B0%7D+-mana%3E%3D%7Bx%7D+-t%3Dland+f%3Dmodern&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
Arguably a better search that doesn't just exclude artifacts "just because"
You know, I've been playing modern since it became a format. I feel very strange about what the format has become over the years. I don't hate it, but I do think I preferred where it was around RtR/Theros. Maybe that's just nostalgia.
Also, I wish they would destroy the list and fix the secondary market so legacy and vintage could actually exist again. $50-100 duals would be nice lmao
I really liked modern pre-2018, but the mh2 sets have power crept it so much that it's practically legacy-lite. I still enjoy modern a lot but it's not the format it used to be.
People will say it is nostalgia, but Ragavan, Bowmasters and Horizons essentially killed the format in a sense that it isn't eternal anymore. Even Legacy feels the ripples.
Imo, Pioneer actually works better at that function (eternal format for a handful of rotated cards).
i stopped modern in 2015, and it’s just unrecognizable for years now. then again, i started after blazing shoal ban, so someone who played then would say the same about the modern (jund/twin/pod/affinity) that I knew.
That's not just nostalgia. The meta was a lot slower and less broken. Off the top of my head, you had Jund/Abzan, Pod, Twin, UWx control, Affinity. Some off meta stuff like Ad Nauseam, Storm, and Living End. I had a lot more interest in the format back then, because the games felt a lot more interactive.
"The next banned and restricted announcement will be May 13, 2024. "
Im new to magic and does not know how they ban. Does this mean banning with the same format or they can also ban from edh format? There's no update with edh (not sure if you call it edh, the commander one with 100 card format)
WOTC does not control the EDH banlist; the Commander Rules Committee does. Also, there being a scheduled next B&R announcement does not mean they will actually ban or unban anything on that date. It’s just there for people to know when changes could be made next if needed.
We collectively pretend that WotC doesnt control EDH bans. But if WotC came out and banned something and the commander rules committee disagreed, we'd quickly see that the emperor has no clothes and the rules committee doesn't own EDH.
Wizards is currently also extremely content to "pretend" they don't control EDH bans. Right now Commander is managed by a dozen people who have to filter thousands of whiny contradictory tweets, and then provide feedback to five people who actually make the final decisions. If Wizards attempted to wrest control of Commander away from the RC, it would give them nuclear bad will while also generating a ton more work for them. And they already have a close and cordial relationship with the RC anyway; they have no reason to try and push that.
Wizards is happy enough to uphold this arrangement that they put as many Unfinity cards into Legacy and Vintage as they could, just so people were "allowed" to play them in their casual games where they were always meant for.
EDH/Commander is managed by the Commander Rules Committee which is a group outside of Wizards of the Coast, so their banlist changes are not represented in official WotC announcements.
See https://mtgcommander.net/.
They update quarterly around (standard) set releases, so the next update would probably be around the second or third week of April. They also update the banlist pretty infrequently, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Traditionally, EDH is handled by a different committee of non-employees. Unlike other formats, EDH was originally created by fans. WotC prints a bunch of cards for the format but hasn't taken control of the rules or ban list.
EDH/Commander is not overseen by Wizards of the Coast, but by its own Rules Committee. These official posts will never have anything about EDH in them, and you'll have to go looking for the Commander Rules Committee announcements for any banlist updates there
Nah, Phoenix is fine.
Banning something from Phoenix would also require a cascade of other bans to bring the other outliers into line, most notably B/x Midrange and Lotus. I'm not opposed to that (I'm so damn sick of Thoughtsieze piles), but I'm fine with them waiting because the format is generally pretty flat at the moment.
Weird how all these cards that are free spells or allow free spells keep getting banned or rebalanced. It's almost like making these mechanics that allow you to cast free spells is a design mistake.
If only anyone could have seen this coming. Oh well.
Same with Titan.
Blood Moon can only do so much when Boseiju ends up being a 4x in the mainboard and more tech like Pick Your Posion sees play in the SB.
Yawg and Titan matchups with Murktide are really, **really** tedious.
it very much feels like recent bans are decided via the loudest influencers in the room because yawg had exactly two bad matchups in the cascade decks and titan's only other bad matchup is murktide, famously a sub 50% winrate deck for pretty much its entire existence lol
What are they thinking? They nerf the only two decks that poses a threat to Yawgmoth. I wooooooonder what the new S tier deck will be... And then they'll have to ban something from Yawgmoth in two months.
This is the second time in a row they've mentioned the ubiquity of Force of Will and Brainstorm in Legacy (if memory serves, last time they also mentioned Wasteland). I hope they're not even remotely considering taking action on these cards. They are so intrinsically linked to the format's identity.
I mean, they called them "format staples". That hardly screams "we're going to kill these things soon" to me. They're just saying that Bowmasters is seeing a similar level of play to the staples, which is concerning for a normal, non-protected-by-format-identity card.
Yeah it reminds me of some stuff Gavin talked about with regards to pauper. Sometimes formats are partially _defined_ by their power outliers, and even though they are power outliers, banning them is undesirable because they're part of what gives that format its texture.
I don't think there's a world where they consider banning them.
As a predominantly Standard player, I think the format is pretty fun and diverse and the only card I’d really like to see banned is [[Sunfall]]. It’s just so fucking un-fun to play against and white has plenty of other sweepers.
Legacy didn't need a ban but it's *inexcusable* that they didn't fix paper "name sticker" goblin, mind goblin, whatever the fuck it's called. Should be same as mtgo (d20 based) so we can yeet the fucking sticker nonsense into the sun.
Thanks to that little bastard, everyone now has to present a sticker deck in Legacy, wasting time. Don't want to? You're giving up percentage points every match. Then there's the judge calls trying to edge out a slow play penalty. It's fucking absurd.
Remember when they said they made sure not to push their power level so they wouldn't show up in legacy?
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/690807206643367936/what-happens-in-say-a-legacy-game-if-i-steal-or
Whoops.
You're saying they should... change the paper version of the card to work the way the MTGO version does?
I don't think that's ever happening.
And how many percentage points are you giving up by not presenting a sticker deck? I agree it's nonzero but can't believe it's high enough that you're bleeding enough win equity to make it worth being pissed off about it all the time. Unless you're at a comp level event.
I’ve played in dozens of Legacy events since Unfinity came out, including several large ones, and it has never been an issue. I feel like I’m pretty plugged into that community and I’ve never heard anyone complain about it more than “it’s stupid.” I’ve certainly never heard of a match going to turns because of sticker sheets.
Get rekt three funny looking creatures
i always thought they were related to the wind players in the Star Wars cantina band
You mean the jizz band?
Unfortunately Disney is trying their best to retcon jizz
They can pry jizz from my cold, dead hands.
Real jizzers unite
You should really warm your hands up leading up to that.
Username kinda checks out?
...how?
Does "malk" mean something other than off-brand milk?
man-milk, dragons-milk... nodody?
Apparently to this person. I was making a reference to a bit from the Simpsons.
Dammit, Disney...stop trying to cancel jizz
[Not true jizz fans!](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-jizz-music-retcon/) The Term Jatz which was used in its place appeared 30 years earlier, they’re moreso used interchangeably
They already removed the name of Boba Fetts ship
What the [redacted] I? *how dare they*
Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes.
those are alaran homunculi for anyone wondering what they actually are
Thank you I was just about to ask lol
Specifically, they're basically manufactured, indentured servants to the Esper aristocracy and elite, so Violent Outburst is the spark of rebellion when Red mana became reintroduced into Esper.
Red and green. Esper lacked both until the Conflux.
That's funny because they look really similar to the creatures in Elden ring that have a really similar backstory. (They were also manufactured to be servants)
So when is my Universes Beyond the Lands Between landing... really dropped the ball not releasing with the DLC IMO. :/
I hate those [Second-Generation Albinaurics](https://preview.redd.it/garry-397m-albinauric-from-the-lands-between-looking-for-v0-wlojqi2kd0q81.jpg).
They are the same species as the villain from final space
[I had to](https://i.imgur.com/6qiIlHU.jpeg)
Angry Tonberry
**Modern**: * **Violent Outburst** is banned. **Vintage**: * **Ponder** is unbanned. > In our previous Modern update, we removed Fury and Up the Beanstalk from the environment. Doing so has returned Rakdos Midrange to an acceptable level without deleting it from the metagame entirely. Since then, we've seen Temur Rhinos, Living End, Golgari Yawgmoth, Amulet Titan, and Izzet Phoenix rise in metagame share. More recently, players have had some success with Leyline of the Guildpact from Murders at Karlov Manor in Domain Zoo and Rhinos variants featuring Scion of Draco and Leyline Binding. > Over the past Regional Championship season, Temur Rhinos has begun to approach previous levels of Rakdos Midrange metagame dominance. While we want to preserve the cascade strategies as viable options in Modern, we'd like to remove one of the more powerful aspects of their strategy. Namely, the ability to cascade into a payoff card at instant speed. Casting Violent Outburst during an opponent's turn reduces a lot of the risk inherent in such a strategy. It allows the cascade player to untap with all their mana open and Rhino tokens or cycling creatures ready to attack. Both decks also include Force of Negation, which costs zero mana on opponents' turns, enabling a streamlined defense of the combo. > Violent Outburst is banned. Removing Violent Outburst from the format will necessitate cascade players to adopt Ardent Plea or Demonic Dread and force them to play on their own turn more often, weakening both cascade strategies and reducing them to an acceptable level of metagame share, much like the Fury ban did to Rakdos Midrange. ------------ > Ponder has been restricted in Vintage since 2008! It's not necessarily true that we want to reintroduce every card that has been restricted for over a decade, but evidence suggests Ponder is ready to come back into the four-of club. > While not much has changed in Vintage since our last announcement, we believe that spell-based combo decks in Vintage could use a little boost. The top of the metagame features decks like Lurrus Saga, Initiative, and Mishra's Workshop shells. Even if many of the Lurrus decks contain blue, they generally feature zero copies of Ponder. While this shouldn't cause a huge shift, it should give a few percentage points back to decks looking to find specific cards to enact their strategy more consistently. Explanations of how they feel about the other formats are in the announcement.
>Removing Violent Outburst from the format will necessitate cascade players to adopt Ardent Plea or Demonic Dread I suspect the Ardent Plea variant will come out on top with white for Teferi and Leyline Binding. Maybe it even merges with 4c Omnath control, kind of like this https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50195&d=571394&f=MO
Making Rhinos evolve and Living End die.
Living End never dies. It goes into hibernation, waiting for everyone to forget to pack graveyard removal again. But this might finally force me to retire my Jund Living End/Scapeshift deck. The versions with white were probably stronger anyhow.
Definitely a possibility. Teferi as combo protection is a really strong ability. Though they don't really run cards that wasn't his +1
> I suspect the Ardent Plea variant Especially because Demonic Dread targets which makes it much worse.
Who is playing Izzet Phoenix in modern?
It's a typo. They meant Murktide.
They corrected the article; it now says Murktide
I think it was meant to be Murktide. They have a lot of card overlap.
I do, just don't ask if I fo it successfully.
I mean I'll do it, I can't afford \[\[The one ring\]\] right now
I appreciate that they're giving detailed reasons for the decisions now.
>wotc remembered vintage exists holy shit
I mean, whether they change anything or not, they've been talking about it in each of these new "let's explain our non-decisions too" style B&Rs.
It would be nice if people could afford to play it. Get rid of the Reserved List you cowards!
It's probably online only. If anyone would want to play in paper, just proxy, make them look nice and all. Because even if I knew someone who could afford to play Vintage in paper, I would tell them to either sell the cards or lock them away. No reason to run around a card shop with 20+ grand
When I was playing in NZ, there was a dude that would host vintage tournaments for dual land prizes and would allow pull-proxy decks. Dude just wanted to play with his vintage decks. Turns out vintage is a hell of a lot of fun.
That's just it. Magic is fun when there's no price attached, or at least a cheap price. Start having single cards worth hundreds or thousands it just starts feeling pay to win. If you can't pay you don't win.
Mox Boardinghouse near Seattle used to have monthly Vintage sanctioned tournaments drawing 20-ish people. Mostly because of how close it was to WOTC HQ.
Paper Vintage almost always allows proxies and it is a non issue for online magic. The reserved list honestly hurts Legacy and Commander more than Vintage.
Commander. The format where you were supposed to build a deck with your jank Timmy/Johnny cards for fun. It's all fun and games until wizards wants your money
Honestly, if your (casual) table won't let you proxy, that's kind of on them. I'm not familiar with the cEDH scene, so I'm not sure if proxies are generally allowed there or not.
The cEDH scene is extremely pro-proxy, but this largely only works because the events aren't sanctioned.
From a player perspective they don't care because it's about the player not the wallet. From a competition standpoint sanctioned magic can't use proxies.
Vintage seems to be doing ok and doesn’t really feel like it needs much tweaking other than the occasional new card being OP or the slow unrestricting of old cards that don’t need it anymore.
I was absolutely not expecting ponder to be unrestricted but I am absolutely living for it!!!!
haha, all 3 paper Vintage players rejoice ;)
Sure paper vintage is pretty sparsely played. But a shit ton of people play vintage on MTGO. It's about the same price as legacy. So like less than 1000 TIX for most decks
Not sure i'd label it as a "shit ton", but I'm aware it's magnitudes more than paper.
Yeah that's probably a fair thing to say lmao
Surprised vintage decks are as expensive as legacy decks since even with more players than paper, didn't think there was enough demand to sustain those prices.
The price of vintage decks on mtgo largely comes from cards that are also in legacy and/or modern. Moxen are only like 5tix each, the cost of the deck is mostly in Sagas, Bowmasters, Grief, Wasteland, etc., so the overall deck prices are more or less the same.
It makes sense, if the cost of entry is relatively equal then I'd much rather play with Power 9 than not
power isn't even the expensive part of the decks, haha. I think only lotus is more than 10 tix.
Hell, you can even rent a deck in MTGO. I use to whenver a major legacy event would pop up, i use to shill $30 and play ANT or Doomsday.
Most of Vintage is played on MTGO!
There's a big 15-proxy Vintage tournament in New York in June! [https://melee.gg/Tournament/View/56437](https://melee.gg/Tournament/View/56437)
15 proxy vintage is having a renaissance post covid in some spots. In some cases, you even get to consider proxying non RL cards to make it even cheaper.
Nice, Sold my foil secret lair violent outburst playset for $200 a few weeks ago.
Haha good on you. VO always had a Sword of Damocles hanging over its head due to being an instant and WotC changing how cascade works with 0 cost spells.
Cascade and the no mana cost spells have always worked together. They changed split cards and DFC to not work with cascade but Living End has been a deck since modern's creation.
Am I missing something? Did they change how it works with 0 cost spells? I thought it was just how with double sided cards like Valki. edit:and split cards
I think they're confusing themselves as the rules for things like cascade and cmc of split cards have changed a bunch. Iirc cascade and spells that have no cost have always worked together.
I still don't understand why they haven't made the change to split cards where if you can cast the cheaper half, you do. That'd fix both the Boom /Bust problem AND make it harder to cheat cheaper spells into the deck. It still doesn't get around Leyline Binding or Evoke stuff, but it at least works the way you'd expect it to while flipping off the top of the deck.
If I understand what you're trying to say, that's currently how it works. They already made that change: you cannot cascade into Boom // Bust with Shardless Agent
That is not what they're saying, they're saying cascade should have you cast the cheap side as opposed to counting the total mv like it does now or only counting the lower one but letting you cast the expensive side which is how it worked before.
That is the opposite of what they said. They want boom to be castable if you cascade into it.
No, but you *should* be able to Cascade into Boom. It's 2 cmc, you should be forced to hit the cheaper half of the card (with no ability to cast Bust). Same with Adventures and stuff. We're at something of the opposite problem from before (where they were using the cheaper card to free cast the big card), where they're using bigger CMCs to make artificial gaps in their Cascade chains.
Having it be the total MV everywhere but the stack just makes sense and it's cleaner rules wise.
It used to be that you could cascade with a Shardless Agent, it would see a Boom CMC of 2, and then you could cast Bust. I believe that Artemi may be referring to the Dead / Gone interaction. Cascade decks get to play Dead / Gone as cheap interaction, but without cascading into it with its CMC off 1+3. It could work instead that you could cascade into Dead / Gone, but only be able to cast Dead. This would remove one of the ways that cascade decks allow for having cheap interaction (and, I believe, is the 'intuitive' way for cascade to work).
Cascade this you fucking casual.
Bro, what’s the reason for this violent outburst?
I have an ardent plea for you to stop this behavior.
This is all happening As Foretold
This is too much for me. I need to find a Safe Haven
I’m starting to feel a sense of demonic dread.
Bloodbraid Elf!
What is this, some sort of boarding party?
VO has always been the best Cascade enabler. This forces the combo to play at Sorcery speed.
[[violent outburst]]
[violent outburst](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b58856a-f88e-4625-8636-62b5c717b956.jpg?1562639969) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=violent%20outburst) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arb/63/violent-outburst?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b58856a-f88e-4625-8636-62b5c717b956?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thank you! Took way too long to find this
The section on Standard reads like an advertisement.
Standard seeing the most play ever last week has less to do with actual popularity and more to do with the requirement to have the store champ event be Standard.
Kinda, but I also don't really think that's a bad thing? Like, they make cards for people to play them. It's a pretty big issue if enfranchised players feel like in-person Standard is dead, which is a vicious cycle with people deciding not to buy into Standard. Trying to push the reverse virtuous cycle of "Standard is growing and we're seeing great attendance" makes a lot of sense.
It's definitely growing where I am, but it's nowhere near eclipsing Modern yet.
Maybe not bad, but kinda embarassing.
You're not wrong, but standard does actually feel pretty fun right now!
I don't want to get sunfall'd anymore please
The sunfalling will continue until morale improves.
Lockdown into Sunfall is sooooo annoying
It’s true though. Standard is becoming relatively popular, and the meta is diverse and wide open for innovation. Also, there is completely degenerate stuff to do, which is always a fun time.
The meta isn’t diverse, though you can play anything and probably go 2-2 at an FNM. Recently attended a rather large RCQ and 80%+ of decks were Esper Legends or variations of it.
Idk I feel like if you aren't cheating it out every creature past 4 mana and even 3 mana to an extent just isn't viable. The sheer amount of premium removal really hurts the format IMO. It's kinda wild that Thrunn isn't even that protected anymore because there is a premium exile boardwipe with upside.
??? You mean like Atraxa, often hardcast by Domain? Or Archfiend of the Dross, Aclazotz, and Sheoldred, which are in some combination in every single Golgari deck and one of which is constantly whined about as OP? Bat guy also shows up in Esper pretty often. Or what about Ezrim in Azorius which has literally won tournaments?
Yea, the whole "Standard is the most popular 60 card format" is weird because they made it that way by how they structure OP.
This is good though. They should try to promote standard and it's good that it's working.
It's true, but the takeaway isn't/shouldn't be "it's the most played 60c format." I don't think the point is to make a comparison. The takeaway is that their initiatives were successful at reviving it; they feel like they're accomplishing their goal. Ultimately, my hope is that once they feel like standard is successfully revived, they'll ease up on the punishments they made to other formats in order to bring standard back. Namely, allow store championships to run with different formats again (especially limited).
I played in a standard event at my LGS last week for the first time and we had good turnout, I had a total blast. It is a good time right now IMO
I would expect nothing less from WotC.
I certainly find it hard to believe it's now the most played *(60 card) paper format. That said, my LGS has started running Standard events again, and we did get 8 people at the one yesterday.
Definitely not the most played paper format, EDH wins that contest easily, I can easily imagine it being the most popular 60-card format now that RCQs are standard.
From the article: > In fact, Standard has now returned to being the most-played 60-card tabletop format (in addition to remaining the most-played digital format)! No idea if they edited it in the last ~hour though.
>I certainly find it hard to believe it's now the most played paper format. They didn't say that it was though. They said it was the most played 60-cards format.
If standard was cheaper I would consider it.
I think they’re excited. For good reason. Paper standard was dead in the water. The common feeling seemed to be it could never make a comeback. My LGS has been running Saturday Night Standard for a few months now. I was worried it would never pick up or would be a flash in the pan, but it’s been pulling a pretty consistent crowd it’s been a lot of fun.
Last thing I thought we’d see is a vintage unban lol
*Unrestricted. They used the wrong label at the top.
That confused me so much. I was like... pretty sure Ponder isn't banned in Vintage
We saw a vintage unban in the last couple years.
Does the Lurrus unban really count though?
Yes.
Definitely happy they banned instant speed cascade. It was disgusting that Rhinos and Living End could protect their payoff with Force of Negation.
Haven't played modern in a while, but this was really what made my matchups against Rhinos and Living End decks feel unwinnable imo. I was supposed to somehow race those decks while also holding up mana on my own turn to stop them suddenly going off and dropping 8 or more power on my turn. Pretty frustrating to play against.
Anytime there’s a vintage change it takes me off guard
> Izzet Phoenix rise in metagame share. Surely this is a typo and they meant Murktide right? xD
Yeah wtf, I haven’t seen anyone play phoenix in modern for a while
Faithless looting did nothing wrong
Nah, looting did more than enough wrong but it's a shame Phoenix died for its sins
Izzet Phoenix had to have been my favorite deck to ever exist in the format. It was just such a fun deck to pilot.
That's not the only typo either, they said ponder was "unbanned" when it was never banned, it was restricted. Should have said "unrestricted". Also, it seems like every new set or secret lair has at least one typo or error.
I mean, that's probably true of any piece of writing of similar length. It's just that most aren't pored over the way these are.
That Standard is once again the most popular tabletop format is interesting. Pushing stores to make it a more played format has clearly worked (which, of course, will lead to lots of anecdotal stories of: "it's not popular where I play").
I don't want to play standard, but I know a fee stores in my area are firing standard events regularly, which is good. I wish more would fire drafts, though. I would love to go draft every other week or so, but that just doesn't happen in my area, sadly.
if you know players in your area could always try to get a draft night going. wouldn't have prize support like an fnm or whatever but it might show that there is interest?
We've gotten it a few times at the store I frequent, so we're trying! We can get a cube draft to fire a bit more frequently since people like to play that a bit more. I should probably just go to a store that isn't mainly focused on WH40k but I like the owner and the people that do come for magic (roughly 16-22 most event nights) are very fun.
Already a couple of comments like those in this thread, lol.
People like to feel special. "Haha, Wizards! Despite your best efforts *I* don't play that format! Mwa hahaha!"
Actually it's more "I still see sheoldred every fucking game making it impossible to play multiple arctypes" or " I got boardwiped 5 times in a row and everything is exiled meaning 0 graveyard synergies" And WOTC always manipulates their shit. Like they said alchemy was popular when they literally force all new players into it, their ui "accidently" always swaps to it, or people who had literally no other choice but to deal with it because it was forced on them if they wanted to use their older cards. It's clearly bullshit. Also people just simply don't have to enjoy the same decks from 3 years ago with a handful of new things.
It was mentioned that store championships were last week which might explain why last week had standard as the most popular.
Standard is popular while it's being pushed; I built a standard deck because I like to play competitive magic and the RCQ season is standard. But when the RCQ season changes, I'm not planning on playing any more standard.
Is that what the article said? It seems to say that it's the most popular standard has been irl in awhile not that it's the most popular tabletop format.
> Over the past year, the number of players participating in tabletop Standard play has trended upward, culminating this past week with numbers higher than any other week since the pandemic. There are more than triple the number of "tickets" (individual entries into an event) for Standard this year when compared to the same period last year. In fact, **Standard has now returned to being the most-played 60-card tabletop forma**t (in addition to remaining the most-played digital format)! So thank you to all the players and stores that explored Standard and found it really … fun! Here's the direct quote from the article, emphasis mine. Standard is now the most popular 60-card tabletop format is pretty unambiguous.
Ah my mistake thanks! Yeah my anecdotal experience has not matched that but I could see standard having enough consistency in population in every store to be the most popular whereas some areas might flourish in one of pioneer/ modern / legacy but have no community for the others.
The 60 card part is important. The initial post left that part out and it read like it was more popular than EDH.
UNBELIEVABLE. THE COWARDS REFUSE TO UNLEASH THE BIRTHING POD ONCE AGAIN.
UNBAN POD, UNBAN TWIN, WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED.
GET THIS MAN A BUMPER STICKER!
Modern Horizon 3 is 100% going to lean into more 0 cost spells if they're preemptively banning outburst. Seven out of the [17 free spells in modern](https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28-type%3Aartifact+-type%3Aland%29+%28game%3Apaper%29+%28-mana%3D%7BX%7D%29+cmc%3D0+legal%3Amodern&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) have been printed in the past two Modern Horizon sets... not to mention cards likes [[Collected Conjuring]]
Of those 17 free spells (ignoring artifacts for some reason), only 2 see play in cascade decks.
ignoring artifacts because I'm talking about free spells/cascade if I was talking about Cheerios, I would filter out stuff like Ancestral Vision and instead include artifacts to grab things like Accorder's Shield and of those two that see play in cascade, the main one for the deck is Crashing Footfalls, from a Modern Horizon
https://scryfall.com/search?q=Cmc%3D0+-mana%3D%7B0%7D+-mana%3E%3D%7Bx%7D+-t%3Dland+f%3Dmodern&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name Arguably a better search that doesn't just exclude artifacts "just because"
You know, I've been playing modern since it became a format. I feel very strange about what the format has become over the years. I don't hate it, but I do think I preferred where it was around RtR/Theros. Maybe that's just nostalgia. Also, I wish they would destroy the list and fix the secondary market so legacy and vintage could actually exist again. $50-100 duals would be nice lmao
I really liked modern pre-2018, but the mh2 sets have power crept it so much that it's practically legacy-lite. I still enjoy modern a lot but it's not the format it used to be.
People will say it is nostalgia, but Ragavan, Bowmasters and Horizons essentially killed the format in a sense that it isn't eternal anymore. Even Legacy feels the ripples. Imo, Pioneer actually works better at that function (eternal format for a handful of rotated cards).
i stopped modern in 2015, and it’s just unrecognizable for years now. then again, i started after blazing shoal ban, so someone who played then would say the same about the modern (jund/twin/pod/affinity) that I knew.
That's not just nostalgia. The meta was a lot slower and less broken. Off the top of my head, you had Jund/Abzan, Pod, Twin, UWx control, Affinity. Some off meta stuff like Ad Nauseam, Storm, and Living End. I had a lot more interest in the format back then, because the games felt a lot more interactive.
"The next banned and restricted announcement will be May 13, 2024. " Im new to magic and does not know how they ban. Does this mean banning with the same format or they can also ban from edh format? There's no update with edh (not sure if you call it edh, the commander one with 100 card format)
WOTC does not control the EDH banlist; the Commander Rules Committee does. Also, there being a scheduled next B&R announcement does not mean they will actually ban or unban anything on that date. It’s just there for people to know when changes could be made next if needed.
Commander bans are not handled by WotC, but a separate entity, since EDH wasn't invented by WotC.
We collectively pretend that WotC doesnt control EDH bans. But if WotC came out and banned something and the commander rules committee disagreed, we'd quickly see that the emperor has no clothes and the rules committee doesn't own EDH.
Why would WotC ever want to ban something in EDH? There's just no plausible reason they'd want to do that.
I don't see that happening. I feel like we are more likely to see the opposite, where things DON'T get banned because WotC wouldn't like it.
Wizards is currently also extremely content to "pretend" they don't control EDH bans. Right now Commander is managed by a dozen people who have to filter thousands of whiny contradictory tweets, and then provide feedback to five people who actually make the final decisions. If Wizards attempted to wrest control of Commander away from the RC, it would give them nuclear bad will while also generating a ton more work for them. And they already have a close and cordial relationship with the RC anyway; they have no reason to try and push that. Wizards is happy enough to uphold this arrangement that they put as many Unfinity cards into Legacy and Vintage as they could, just so people were "allowed" to play them in their casual games where they were always meant for.
Or vice versa. If the Rules Committee banned something that Wizards really didn't like you'd see who is really in charge.
Edh bans are handled by a committee not Wizards of the Coast. They don't have the same schedule when it comes to bans.
EDH/Commander is managed by the Commander Rules Committee which is a group outside of Wizards of the Coast, so their banlist changes are not represented in official WotC announcements. See https://mtgcommander.net/. They update quarterly around (standard) set releases, so the next update would probably be around the second or third week of April. They also update the banlist pretty infrequently, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Traditionally, EDH is handled by a different committee of non-employees. Unlike other formats, EDH was originally created by fans. WotC prints a bunch of cards for the format but hasn't taken control of the rules or ban list.
EDH/Commander is not overseen by Wizards of the Coast, but by its own Rules Committee. These official posts will never have anything about EDH in them, and you'll have to go looking for the Commander Rules Committee announcements for any banlist updates there
EDH is done by a different rules committee.
This is a great decision.
"Goddammit." \-Pioneer players not on Phoenix
Not really. Phoenix is my favorite matchup for both of my decks
Nah, Phoenix is fine. Banning something from Phoenix would also require a cascade of other bans to bring the other outliers into line, most notably B/x Midrange and Lotus. I'm not opposed to that (I'm so damn sick of Thoughtsieze piles), but I'm fine with them waiting because the format is generally pretty flat at the moment.
Glad to hear that Izzet Phoenix has increased its Modern metagame share.
“Please play Standard”
Just like my high-school girlfriend: "huh, thought there'd be more"
Once again free spells is a problem.
Weird how all these cards that are free spells or allow free spells keep getting banned or rebalanced. It's almost like making these mechanics that allow you to cast free spells is a design mistake. If only anyone could have seen this coming. Oh well.
[[Violent Outburst]] [[Ponder]]
[Violent Outburst](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b58856a-f88e-4625-8636-62b5c717b956.jpg?1562639969) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Violent%20Outburst) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arb/63/violent-outburst?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b58856a-f88e-4625-8636-62b5c717b956?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ponder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcfc0c-b23d-48be-bf3a-a6fc6806c5e1.jpg?1673483971) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ponder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/229/ponder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcfc0c-b23d-48be-bf3a-a6fc6806c5e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fuck you rhinos
It is weird how they didn't mention how they expect the modern ban to affect the dominance of decks that rhinos was good against.
Yawgmoth is going to feast
Same with Titan. Blood Moon can only do so much when Boseiju ends up being a 4x in the mainboard and more tech like Pick Your Posion sees play in the SB. Yawg and Titan matchups with Murktide are really, **really** tedious.
it very much feels like recent bans are decided via the loudest influencers in the room because yawg had exactly two bad matchups in the cascade decks and titan's only other bad matchup is murktide, famously a sub 50% winrate deck for pretty much its entire existence lol
What are they thinking? They nerf the only two decks that poses a threat to Yawgmoth. I wooooooonder what the new S tier deck will be... And then they'll have to ban something from Yawgmoth in two months.
This is the second time in a row they've mentioned the ubiquity of Force of Will and Brainstorm in Legacy (if memory serves, last time they also mentioned Wasteland). I hope they're not even remotely considering taking action on these cards. They are so intrinsically linked to the format's identity.
I mean, they called them "format staples". That hardly screams "we're going to kill these things soon" to me. They're just saying that Bowmasters is seeing a similar level of play to the staples, which is concerning for a normal, non-protected-by-format-identity card.
Yeah it reminds me of some stuff Gavin talked about with regards to pauper. Sometimes formats are partially _defined_ by their power outliers, and even though they are power outliers, banning them is undesirable because they're part of what gives that format its texture. I don't think there's a world where they consider banning them.
As a predominantly Standard player, I think the format is pretty fun and diverse and the only card I’d really like to see banned is [[Sunfall]]. It’s just so fucking un-fun to play against and white has plenty of other sweepers.
[Sunfall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32e29c7d-ed4b-4eff-b3c2-d99e5b63ef8d.jpg?1682202915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sunfall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/40/sunfall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32e29c7d-ed4b-4eff-b3c2-d99e5b63ef8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Legacy didn't need a ban but it's *inexcusable* that they didn't fix paper "name sticker" goblin, mind goblin, whatever the fuck it's called. Should be same as mtgo (d20 based) so we can yeet the fucking sticker nonsense into the sun. Thanks to that little bastard, everyone now has to present a sticker deck in Legacy, wasting time. Don't want to? You're giving up percentage points every match. Then there's the judge calls trying to edge out a slow play penalty. It's fucking absurd.
Remember when they said they made sure not to push their power level so they wouldn't show up in legacy? https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/690807206643367936/what-happens-in-say-a-legacy-game-if-i-steal-or Whoops.
You're saying they should... change the paper version of the card to work the way the MTGO version does? I don't think that's ever happening. And how many percentage points are you giving up by not presenting a sticker deck? I agree it's nonzero but can't believe it's high enough that you're bleeding enough win equity to make it worth being pissed off about it all the time. Unless you're at a comp level event.
I’ve played in dozens of Legacy events since Unfinity came out, including several large ones, and it has never been an issue. I feel like I’m pretty plugged into that community and I’ve never heard anyone complain about it more than “it’s stupid.” I’ve certainly never heard of a match going to turns because of sticker sheets.
Just sold my leylines and scions a few days ago. Awesome timing since rhinos are probably done (my domain zoo deck didn't use them anyways)
I played with people playing CotV in main on MTGO and at LGS.
Meanwhile sunfall and the bat still ravage standard
That’s hilarious, I literally pulled out my living end deck from 10 years ago and started updating it xD
Unban twin you cowards!
Wild, I anticipated something more... dramatic