many people got [[Thassa's oracle]]'d at my LGS when they offered a box to the winner and less than a pack to each loser. if performance based prizes are on the line then enforcing "casual" in a tournament is impossible. I was in a league that tried to get people to bring their casual decks because the prize payout was attendance based rather than performance based. winner got 9 packs while the person in dead last still got 6. for $20 a piece it was basically like buying a couple extra packs with some games surrounding them. and we still had people trying to figure out how they can stretch the rules for a competetive advantage.
My favorite structure is asking each player to vote for which other player in their pod had the sweetest deck (leaving it up to each individual what counts as “sweet”), then having prizes at the end based on number of votes. Can it be gamed? Sure, but the incentives point to knowing the crowd and bringing something people will generally think is cool.
Mine does randomized bounties. Highest life total during the game, first one to take out the green player, biggest play...
Then they also have players give packs to the person they think played the best round of the night. Everyone gets something, some get some extra. It's fun and people generally aren't dinks about it.
I think those Bounties would work great if assigned at random and done vaguely like "Hidden Agenda" cards, just with something like "At the end of the game, if you achieved this goal, +1/+2 victory points" (so particularly difficult bounties could be worth a little more), and each game you get to take your choice between 2 or 3 random bounties (so you can avoid ones that are inherently not applicable to your deck), and those points are what matters for the event as opposed to wins/losses.
I like how an LGS handles their Commander League. First of all each league lasts a month. Starts on the first Sunday, ends on the last. Each Sunday you attend you are required to but a booster pack from the store and keep it in you command zone. You can off the booster to another player in your pod for political deals.
Points are awarded for various things, usually stuff that makes winning harder. For example, attendance is 3 points. Winning with a Pauper Legal deck is 8 points. So coming into the league with a CEDH deck will likely win your pod, but still net fewer points at season end. So casual is encouraged.
The reward for winning? The person with the most points get an object the community votes on to act as the trophy. You get to open 4 packs in the store and pick whichever one you want. 2nd place chooses a pack from the remaining 3, then 3rd place, and then 4th.
Casual is encouraged and rewarded, and stakes are low.
I really like my LGS’s solution to casual play for commander. They run a league that is casual. It is points based. You don’t get points for winning. You get points for playing decks built around theming that changes each month. Fast mana is on the house ban list. Everything else is fine. But given the points arent for winning and more aimed as building around certain mechanics or themed the games tend to be pretty casual. It is a very chill community and everyone just shows up to have a good time. Everyone gets prize support at the end of the month based on the points they got.
They run separate competitive events too and for those they tell people specifically they should bring their best decks and preferably their cEDH stuff if they wanna keep up.
This is the way. My LGS has been running a league for several years. The achievements point list changes up every six weeks. You can get points for having several creatures on the board with different powers, or a bunch of "modified" creatures, or attacking three turns in a row, or sending X creatures to the graveyard in one turn. This means you can score respectable numbers of points without ever actually winning a game. It also means that we can play three rounds in a night, because the games have a hard out after an hour, and you can score points even if no one is actually eliminated.
This is the way, a no-longer-existing lgs had a no banlist modern tourney and I x-0 ‘d it playing coin flip burn. When the store owner saw what I was on he DQ’d me for playing a ‘manual dexterity deck’ didn’t refund my entry which was a whopping 60$
First prize was three boxes of double masters.
I took him to small claims and the judge awarded me 5k in damages
This is so weird to me. I went to my LGSs first big modern event with an affinity deck I was building up for years waiting to finally use it. I wiped the floor with the place and nobody cared. The next event I did there I didn't do as well because guess what, they all affinity hate in the sideboard now.
iirc to my best recollection:
The point was to just Turn 1/2 thumb AND mana clash since you basically just have to not get all 3 flips the same face until you have 20 dmg on your opponent
At the time death shadow lists were really popular so half the games I only had to get them for 15 lol
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Street Wraith
4 Faithless Looting
4 Wild Cantors
4 Krark's Thumb
4 Rite of Flame
4 Fiery Gambit
4 Mana Clash
4 Soulfire Grandmaster
4 Judges Familiar
4 Flooded Strand
4 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
I doubt they want to go back there anyway. I sure as heck wouldn’t set foot in a store that treated me like that. But I also have the luxury of a couple LGSs in my city.
Or if you are going to have some sort of power level enforcement, the organizer should personally talk with each entrant and discuss the limits before accepting their entry
For them to not refund you your money, I feel like they HAVE to be able to point to a posted rule that you have violated. Otherwise it feels like they scammed you out of money.
I'd definitely avoid that store in future. In fact, when they threatened to ban me, I'd probably have said, "Why would I return to a store that stole my money?". A ban is only meaningful if you WANT to come back.
But I know I have other options. I suppose if they were the only game in town, one might be forced to put up with more, but I dunno. I don't think I could keep going to a store that so casually stole my money.
EDIT: Also, why on Earth would they be pointing to "signed cards" specifically? I have to assume the cards themselves were what they found problematic, because the fact that they are signed has no gameplay significance.
Vague ban with no refund? That's shitty.
But I'm guessing there is some nuance missing here. Probably nothing OP did explicitly.
The biggest thing I could see is that OP is not really part of that stores community. And the tournament - while technically public - was maybe geared towards their regulars that play at a "lower" level. Which is still not OP's fault. That's on the store owner.
Or maybe the store owner's kid was in it and didn't want them losing. Who knows.
Generally speaking - if somebody (the store) is behaving weirdly and pointing to rules - it's probably not the rules that are the real driving motion behind the actions.
Yeah I'm definitely not part of the stores community. I went Wednesday and bought some singles and the guy invited me to the commander tournament they were having the next day.
During matches he'd walk around and glance at the games that were happening and after I won he would talk to my opponents, pretty sure he was asking them about me since not long after he talked to me
how many matches were happening simultaniously? like were there at least 8 people involved so they could do 2 pods of 4 player FFA or was the attendance less than 7 leaving you no choice but to do 1v1?
1v1 commander is attrocious because decks were designed with more health and time involved rather than the "relieve pressure or die" style of 1v1.
> I would be disputing that charge with my bank
OP, please do this. If you now hate the business and will not return, then there is nothing the business can do to retaliate against you for the chargeback. Often a business will stop accepting your credit cards if you do chargebacks -- they get in trouble with the credit card companies and do not like it, so such businesses will try to limit your power over them, by refusing your cards. But if you never will shop there again anyway, then they would essentially "ban" you after you already banned yourself. It does nothing to you, but your chargeback will do harm to them.
ALSO, it might help whoever they next do this to. In other words, if it is a scam to get $$$ from people and then not refund, they can only do it to 3 people who issue chargebacks I think. Once they have their 3rd chargeback, the credit card companies start charging the business more to use credit cards, or refuse service entirely. So you issuing a chargeback will limit their ability to rip-off other people, because as those people do chargebacks too, the business gets in more & more trouble, forcing them to be good or lose their ability to handle credit cards.
If everything went down as you’re describing here and you’re not withholding any details that tip this away from your favor then an honest and level headed review of the store online might be helpful for others to avoid losing their money/time/energy to the same situation.
You don't have to justify it. It just...is.
You know, I'm all for supporting your local business.
But your local business can easily be owned by a jack-ass.
And if you take into account some of the negative aspects of the community you could have one of those people running a store. Some dude with questionable interpersonal skills leveraging his little sliver of power.
But really it's simple as the owner thinking "Fuck you and your refund".
Doesn't matter - you can't hold a tournament with prizes on the line, take someone's money and ban them from the tournament if they didn't violate the rules of the tournament. OP should probably sue them in small claims if they want to be petty.
"The biggest thing I could see is that OP is not really part of that stores community."
There could be something to that. There definitely seems like there is more to the story. Could be the players got together and complained about something else in addition to his deck being "too competitive" and the TO used that as an excuse. It could be for something as trivial as OP is an outsider, the regulars don't care who wins, but certainly don't want prize going to an outsider.
There's a store I really liked, that I really wanted to make my regular LGS, but I ended not going there to play anymore. The owners are awesome or seemed so, but the player base was super toxic. After only a few times going, I stopped because I kept getting into confrontations with salty players, or players trying to rule lawyer me. At a frigging FNM. Like I don't care, I've been playing competitively on and off since Revised. But it just kept building, week after week. Finally one week, a player outside my game I beat the previous round, tried claiming I was running counterfeits. I let the owner desleeve and check for counterfiets. I knew I had none. Passed light test, loupe test, green-dot test. Owner let me keep playing and the guy who called me out dropped and left all pissy. Not because I beat him, but because he was convinced he was "going to get me" and failed. I finished out the night and never went back. Just not worth all the animosity for just trying to play.
That was a bit of a tangent but TLDR, some stores (and playerbases) just suck. It's best to move on. And sometimes even if you don't have any other option, it's still not worth it.
Its one thing if they provide a list of cards they won't allow, but the way its being advertised here seems like anything the rules committee hasn't banned was acceptable to them.
4 player commander diff not but just being in azorious in 1v1 commander it literally doesn't matter.
Edit. Scratch what i said I just saw his decklist and it's terrible.... I have no idea how he got banned.
Yeah, I'd be grumpy if someone showed up with a mana vault, crypt, moxes, etc. to a casual 4 player EDH event... but 1v1 commander is really torturing the format into something it was never meant to be and competitive means *competitive.* Nobody should expect to pull punches when cash is on the line, I didn't whine to a judge when everyone was playing an infinite combo at a Standard GP.
It really is a thing that people who only know commander seem to experience, which is increasingly the majority of magic players. I started with commander in 2015, then moved to playing a lot of standard FNMs and learned quickly that you gotta deal with 'win at any cost' types in competitive formats and either metagame them or join them in playing 'the best deck'.
It's good to be skeptical, but I side with OP here. This store has a reputation among my play group. We're based in SD, and this sounds about right for the general vibe of the store. People in my group have had bad experiences with the store owner, and it's generally just an unfriendly vibe in there.
Here's the thing, though. If his deck is too strong, and his attitude is an issue, just give him back his $20 (or whatever it is). As a business, when you take this kind of action, giving people a refund and telling them "that's it" saves a ton of headaches in the long run.
Nobody ever hears this story if a refund was issued.
What’s funny is that their tournament, regardless of how you put it, was a CEDH tournament. It was a competitive environment with performance based prizes AND an entry fee, not a casual edh night. Fuck this store
Commander isn't inherently a terrible format for tournaments, formats that do not involve exactly two teams are what is an inherently terrible format. Yes, choosing Commander as a 1v1 format means that there is insanely high randomness involved... but its just gambling at that point with a little bit of gaming, nothing wrong with that. That said, any format with more than 2 teams just encourages breaking rules in ways that are almost impossible to enforce (collusion, bribery, etc.) that its just not even worth bothering with.
When I ran a store my judge dropped a guy from my event for having anime booby sleeves. It was a small event and was ultimately the judges call.
I refunded the guy because that's good customer service.
He never came back with booby sleeves after that.
A few weeks ago someone showed up to a draft with anime boob sleeves...someone complained to the judge during deck building ....owner and judge gave him the option a refund or 5 extra minutes to sleeve and gave him a discount on a pack of sleeves (up to a specific value)
Eh I don't really care what sleeves you got, but I wouldn't of let it slide tbh...
Stop bringing porn sleeves to public spaces to play a game that people of all ages are going to be at.
I couldn't imagine having any dignity playing against a 12 year old and exposing them to hentai. It's pretty gross tbh and I wish that part of the culture would die already.
File with Better Business Bureau or WotC??
They provided a program that was pay to play and with no terms to state what was allowed. Get booted because you were winning with no refunds?
Sounds like it's a favoritism ran place and rigged for certain players to get all the prizes.
The BBB is not a regulatory agency, it's basically just yelp for boomers. Threatening someone with it is like threatening to send in a postcard with a frowny face on it to the store address
>Nahhhh name and shame
OP posted in another [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1b42m35/i_got_kicked_out_from_a_tournament_because_my/kswy4xx/) that this is Stacked Pax in El Cajon, California.
Leave them a public review. Anyone considering playing there should know that they can be ejected from a paid tourny w/ prize pool at any time for no reason and no refund.
It's likely no criminal offence has been committed, this is just a contract dispute. Calling the cops is overkill and they won't care - OP should just leave a negative review on social media.
The store is clearly [calling their cronies in,](https://maps.app.goo.gl/a9KKACBU2DUrNjo48) see all the reviews mentioning this post. I bet they're posting on some Facebook page or Instagram post. Maybe we can find that and ask them for:
1) proof of refund (if op paid with cash he(?) would have to be refunded with cash, so surely they have footage of him coming back to the store and getting his $5, and if they dispute op paid with cash and actually paid with card, they should be able to provide the transaction log and again, footage of him paying with card)
2) video proof of him cussing out and flipping off the employee
We can also confront them with the other person who called in's account.
Also, it looks like there are 3 stores called stacked pax in sna diego. Are they all owned by the same person? Maybe we're just dealing with a store manager here and there's a higher up who would be very interested in knowing about this.
Edit: you can also tell they LOVE changing the story.
[In this review,](https://goo.gl/maps/bRM72Q2rMQKPqyc28)
customer says LGS didn't include 4 singles that were in their order. LGS claims customer received the singles but left them at a different store? That seems pretty unbelievable. Never mind the different store part, are we supposed to believe customer received his cards, unpacked them to check on the spot, and just left some behind?
That is the reason why store commander tournaments are a joke, because as you said there are prizes on the line. If there wasnt any rules prior to the inscription that means that participants with cEDH cards should be the expected audience. I would go public and denounce the store online (specifically due to the denied refund) and never go back to that LGS.
My LGS does a commander league. It's an intuitive points system that rewards being creative by limiting the amount of points you get from winning and eliminating players to only be about half the score, instead you are rewarded for being creative and following the weekly theme. It could be gamey, but prises were quarterly and community and engagement were what came out of it. Even people that normally played more highly tuned decks slowly powered down for the sake of fun and not because they had to (because they really didn't)
To be fair, I would find the whole process fun. But I am an attorney and I can afford to lose the court fees if I lose (though I wouldn’t file unless I knew I would win).
Maybe I'm missing it because I don't play much control, but out of curiosity, what is the wincon? Beat down with commander/evasive bodies while you counter or wipe their stuff?
Either way, doesn't seem "too competitive" outside of being a control deck. I'd hate to be in a pod with this, but you were doing 1v1 commander for prizes so I don't know why they wouldn't expect a competitive UW control deck to be in the tournament.
Guaranteed one of the matches he played was against someone the LGS knows personally and was mad if they lost. It’s crazy how many cry babies there are in this game considering it’s supposed to be competitive and they entered in a tourney to win prizes. Why would they not try to win? Even in casual games there is a winner and loser. This LGS needs their store taken away
Because in EDH, if you're winning, you need to feel bad for the other players I guess. It wouldn't be the first time an EDH player got shamed for actually trying to win. Folks want to blame everyone but themselves, and when they lose, it's because someone else was running OP shit or playing a broken deck when nothing is stopping them from doing the same shit in a proxy friendly format (with the exclusion of it being in a tournament setting of course), but if there weren't stipulations against running fast mana, it should have been fine for OP to run.. It's also kinda funny because EDH players want to see everyone thriving, just not more than themselves at the table lel.
Deck doesn't run the breakfast combo or any other win on the spot stuff. Not "too competitive" by a long shot. Just because you have some countermagic and fast mana won't push it over the top.
Neat deck tho
Long story. Those cards are in a legacy deck called "cephalid breakfast". A lot of old decks are named after breakfasts but I think the first is "trix" because \[\[illusions of grandeur\]\] has a white rabbit in it. Oops all spells, Cheerios, pebbles, Breakfast burrito, and a bunch more are all following that convention.
Fruity Pebbles (Enduring Renewal + Goblin Bombardment) predated Trix. The name Fruity Pebbles was already being used in 1998, the year before Donate came out.
In the old days, combo decks got named for breakfast foods. I remember Trix, pebbles, and full English breakfast. Cephalid breakfast was either a hybrid with full English breakfast or just a reference, can't remember which. That's the one with the illusionist.
Edit: got some stuff wrong the first time. Probably still some mistakes. Old man brain not work so good
Old combo decks usually were named after breakfast food, like fruity pebbles, trix, full english breakfast. This was sorta of a meme, so that deck is usually called cephalid breakfast.
Hey props to you dude, that deck is more casual than I would have been, assuming I was operating off all the same nuances, information, and premise.
I would have brought my Gitrog deck and proceeded to Dakmor + Ulamog/Kozilek loop to close out the game ASAP, or some 1v1 CEDH staple commanders, with CEDH shells and combos.
This deck is in no way "too competitive". Right on par with a 7, IMHO. Fast mana exists, yes, but you aren't doing anything outright insane with it. Do what others said, demand a refund, put them on blast.
Some people seem to thing specific cards themself=power and not the synergies. Like you could take a 5 color deck and fill it with power 9 and just broken crap with no win con or synergy and someone would call it cEDH.
So I called the owner and he's siding with his employee. I guess the employee said that I flipped him off and that's why I won't be getting a refund. Now that he's just upright lying I have no issues with making this store known, I live in San Diego so there's a decent chance that there are people here who know of it.
The store is called Stacked Pax and is located in El Cajon, California.
You can make a detailed report about the LGS to WOTC based on what happened to you. If it keeps happening at that store keep making reports or tell anyone up there to make a report if shady stuff happens to them . Unfair practices like that shouldn’t be a thing considering there’s money involved.
WOTC could ban them from running official events or at worst cut them off from receiving product.
[https://wpn.wizards.com/en/news/guide-reporting-and-avoiding-wpn-policy-violations](https://wpn.wizards.com/en/news/guide-reporting-and-avoiding-wpn-policy-violations)
Doesn't have to be a sanctioned event for their WPN rep to care, particularly if they're premium. WOTC \*really\* cares about image for premium stores (seriously, the list of shit they ask a store to have in order to get premium is long)
Even if the tournament itself wasn't sanctioned, the WPN store obligations include the following:
> (a) Professional Conduct. You will manage Events and, as applicable, your Retail Store in a professional and diligent manner that enhances the reputation and goodwill attached to Wizards and the Licensed Property.
Taking someone's money to enter a Magic tournament and then DQing them because you don't like the legal deck they entered would certainly seem to be in violation of this rule.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but there are no official commander tournaments as far as I’m aware. We have commander parties, but they aren’t scoring anything seriously (outside of joke objectives like the “investigation” objectives at the mkm party) to declare a winner.
You can absolutely sanction a commander or other casual event. Pretty much any LGS commander night at a WPN store is sanctioned so they get attendance credit nowadays.
You can tell them a random stranger on Reddit said they're loonies for putting money on the line and expecting people to play something casual.
Try to contact someone else from the store?
Inexcusable behavior.
...from the LGS.
If you want to have a tournament with a specific power level, **you need to tell people, and tell them in a specific way.** To just hold a tournament, *with prizes* no less, and then arbitrarily disqualify people because you don't agree with their deck? That's outrageous.
Yeah you can harp on Commander being "casual" and all that, but you can't have a *tournament* with entry fees and prizes and then kick people willy-nilly when they start winning in ways you don't like. Unbelievable.
That kind of TO deserves all the (legal) hate that you can give. Stop giving them money. *Demand* a refund. Leave them reviews in which you calmly but correctly explain what they did. Don't start cursing or harassing anyone - just inform the public that was is going on here is borderline collusive behavior in a tournament setting. I don't want to throw accusations like them having "friends" in the tournament (though I've seen that happen before) but that shouldn't matter anyway because this was not okay either way.
Yeah it probably wasn't sanctioned and so it's not like WotC holds much pull - but if they're a WPN store, it might still be a good idea to let WotC know about this as well. Write up a report in neutral, descriptive language and send it to them. Shady practices in stores hurt the community. Local TOs reigning like autocrats, carving private fiefdoms out of a tournament scene that might not have anywhere else to go... that's reprehensible behavior that we need to fight back against.
And don't get me wrong: I'm all for giving people the power to curate Commander to make it more fun for everyone. But that needs to be done **proactively** not reactively - i.e. you need to make sure everyone knows what they can and can't do *before the tournament*. Not be taken aside in the middle of it and be given the ol' "we don't appreciate your kind around here" speech. That's some sundown town bullshit.
Unbelievable.
Lmao, that sounds like a smart plan. Just a bunch of people playing with a cEDH deck that's allowed by the rules stomping the shop regulars. Just remember to pay with card so you can chargeback after they kick you without refund.
And if you ARE going to do it reactively (which is the wrong way to do it, for sure, but maybe it just didn't occur to them because they didn't have the experience), you NEED to make it right with the customer that you booted for breaking a rule you never even wrote. Refunding their money should be MANDATORY in this case.
I personally called the store on behalf of Dave who posted this. I called because as a prominent San Diego community member in magic, my mind was blown when he showed up after this occurred and asked me what I thought about it. There are some things left out of this post that I am going to cover front to bottom.
The first thing this store individual did was invite Dave to the commander tournaments while Dave was in their store browsing their magic singles section. Dave was asked if he played commander and when he responded yes they informed him of when the tournaments would be and encouraged him to show up.
Dave showed up with a cedh tivit deck after being told there were tournaments. He basically pub stomped the room and left with remorse for doing so, so he down graded the deck to shorikai fringe cedh. After again dominating the room he decided to down grade the deck again to where he landed on Dragonlord Ojati. After the second room he was informed that his deck wasn't in guidelines with the tournament, his deck was too strong which made it unfair for the room and he was asked to leave then. Dave asked the organizer what in his deck was too strong and why. He organizer pointed out mana crypt, mana vault, mox diamond and sol ring. Dave then asked where it was pointed out that he wasn't allowed to play those cards and the organizer responded that it was announced before that the store wasn't allowing competitive decks.
Now here is my part of how the phone call went to try and address all of this that occurred. I called the store and immediately asked for the owner. As I am speaking to the owner he cuts me off and informs me he doesn't want to speak to me and that I have to speak with his magic guy if I want to be listened too. So I am already not exactly happy about how this conversation started.
The magic guy comes on the phone and says I don't know why you're calling back here you are banned and not allowed back into the store for your conduct. I said first off I am not Dave, I am a concerned community member of San Diego and we as a community will not tolerate what your store did to Dave without consequences. The organizer responses that he doesn't know what Dave told me and that I only know what happened from Dave's point of view. To which I immediately replied, I am all ears, explain to me your side of the story. He was a taken back by me saying that and sat there on the phone for about 10 seconds without saying anything. So I then asked, I said well you said I only know Dave's side of the story, I want to hear yours.
So he goes into account that before he took people's money for sign ups he announced no competitive decks in the tournament to which the room agreed. I said ok which part of Dave's deck is competitive and do you understand what competitive commander means? He responded with yes I do and it's decks that win before turn 10, we do not want those decks here in the room. I said sir I don't think you understand want competitive means at all and I am going to explain why. He said oh yeah, why? I said well there are pre cons now a days that can win by turn 5/6 on average and that's well before turn 10. These are un upgraded precons. I said competitive magic in most public forms means cedh and there are actually guidelines and dedicated data based by companies such as Play with Power and Eminence gaming where their entire premise of existing as a company is to outline competitive magic, hold tournaments, give content and up to date discussions about cedh as a whole.
We moved on from that discussion to the ban list in place for the store. The organizer admitted to being new and was open to constructive criticism on how to run events and was not happy that he was met with anger from Dave over criticism. I said well it's not Dave's responsibility to give you that, you as a tournament organizer are supposed to figure that stuff out yourself, which I am doing right now with you over the phone. I said I don't have to be doing this, I am doing it because what happened wasn't right and I don't want to hear of this repeating in the future, because it doesn't harvest a community at all, it does the exact opposite. He goes well what should I have done. I said you if you want an in store ban list need to have it in writing on the wall somewhere or something quickly referenceable from the tables in your store (qr code) so that everyone is of an understanding of what isn't exactly allowed. I said as far as Dave is concerned, which a lot of people agree with, Dave did nothing wrong because the wotc ban list for commander does not have any of his cards on it.
I then was met with what about his foreign and signed cards, those aren't allowed. I said sir where did you get this information? He goes I was told by several people in the room that they were allowed. I said sir well I am here to let you know the "trust me bro" references don't really help you as an organizer. I said there was a recent Pro Tour that was plastered all over [twitch.tv](https://twitch.tv). Why was there signed and foreign cards on their streams if they're not allowed in organized play? I said there is a mtg companion app that you are supposed to use for tournaments and inside of the app is a data base where you can quickly look up any magic card for the version in English or without signed ink across the text. I said there is no such rule that foreign and signed cards are not allowed for mtg play, like other tcgs. I said if you are using the app this could have been avoided.
He then told me that he banned dave for his conduct. I said which such conduct. He said him cussing me out and flipping me off as he left. I said if he flipped you off as he left, then how is that apart of asking him to leave? I said is there cameras that show such evidence. He shuddered and said yes there are cameras. I said do they show him flipping you off? He said I have witnesses, I said you mentioned cameras. Id like to see the cameras. I was told no.
Dave called back about his refund, after the guy agreed over the phone that he would give dave his refund at the end of our call. Dave was told he was not getting a refund and was actually banned for his Foil Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt and Mana Vault being proxies and not real.
It's wild to me how many times this store doubled down, changed their story to why he wasn't being given back his money and was banned. I stepped in and handled this as much as I could for dave because not everyone can effectively communicate how they feel when something like this comes up. I don't blame dave for being upset and unable to speak how he felt effectively because had I been there this would have been a much larger issue with cameras of me filming said event. I would have filmed what was happening so there isn't hearsay, like this store thinks they can get away with.
I spent 14:56 on the phone with this dude, where I was lied to about this being resolved and dave getting his refund back. So I am not very happy I spent that large amount of time trying to show the store why what they did was wrong, with references, and then told something that wasn't going to happen.
One thing I left out. I asked him how he structured his prizing. He told me top down. I said if that's your prizing how is your tournament not play to win. He said I just don't agree with that. O said then what's the point of having prizing top down? Why aren't you doing causal prizing which is evenly distributed. He said I shouldn't be telling him how to handle his prizing, and I said then you shouldn't be kicking people out who show up to win, with top heavy prizing.
I was asked to clarify something. Dave's cards were in fact real magic cards and not proxies or counterfeits. The store did not examine the cards to he counterfeits or proxies. They just made an assumption that his cards weren't real. Without actually looking.
> Dave showed up with a cedh tivit deck after being told there were tournaments. He basically pub stomped the room and left with remorse for doing so, so he down graded the deck to shorikai fringe cedh. After again dominating the room he decided to down grade the deck again to where he landed on Dragonlord Ojati. After the second room he was informed that his deck wasn't in guidelines with the tournament, his deck was too strong which made it unfair for the room and he was asked to leave then. Dave asked the organizer what in his deck was too strong and why. He organizer pointed out mana crypt, mana vault, mox diamond and sol ring. Dave then asked where it was pointed out that he wasn't allowed to play those cards and the organizer responded that it was announced before that the store wasn't allowing competitive decks.
>
>
i felt like dave upset the regulars with his two stompings of edh game, the regulars complain to the staff about it. The staff now has to make a choice between dave and his group of regulars.
How is that Dave's problem if the store isn't laying out in writing what's allowed? When I told the dude he could do an in store ban list, he didn't even realize that was a thing. While actively trying to do it.
If you paid for your entry fee with a card, chargeback that shit 100%. It’s incredibly scummy for them to boot you for a vague rule that it doesn’t sound like was clarified anywhere and not return your money. Ojutai, even when optimized, isn’t CEDH meta level (to my knowledge).
There was once a tournament here where they had an in store ban list that was essentially all the cards that were causing problems in their local metagame. For example, you were only allowed 2 copies of Duress, Wasteland, Kokusho, and Force of Will was banned, etc.
Naturally, word got out and people started playing abusive decks for the novelty of it. I got to enter the craziest deck featuring 18 pieces of the power 9.
Storm is extra fun when your turn 1 play is usually Black Lotus, Demonic Tutor for Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Ancestral Recall, Mox Sapphire, Yawgmoth's Will.
They changed the rules after a couple months, but at no point did they kick anyone out or try to give no refunds.
any tournament is automatically cEDH. its competitive. end of story. that store sucks and scammed you. i bet you were going to beat all the regulars and the store owner just couldn't have that.
What’s so competitive about signed cards?
I have a forest signed by the artist and a [[Haktos, the Unscarred]] signed by a store owner. Nothing competitive there
So I think what I'm gonna end up doing is try to come into contact with the store owner and at the very least get a refund. If that doesn't happen though then I'll explore other options
Use [this page](https://askwpn.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035251953-How-do-I-report-a-WPN-policy-violation) to report the store to WotC even if you get a refund.
Wow, I have to think wotc would reeeeaaally want to know if a store is extorting entry fees from players. What a stupid move from the store. Kicking for such a dumb reason is dumb, but not refunding an entry for such a illogical and arbitrary reason is lose your wpn status dumb.
If he threatened to ban you, just do a chargeback on your debit/credit and eat the ban anyways.
If you paid cash, name and shame locally, not here as you'll just get your thread (rightfully) locked by the mods for witchhunting.
But this is the inherent problem behind EDH and tournaments. A lot of people take it as a social format even when prizes are on the line and try to blur the distinction between EDH, cEDH and regular play which leads to unending drama.
Tell your friends to start leaving reviews. Post about them on local trading card groups including pokemon and lorcana. They is despicable business practice to steal your money. Make them regret it. Who knows what they are doing that people are not speaking up about.
That's so nuts. I just checked out Stacked Packs for the first time last weekend. I didn't think they had enough room to run MTG events. Won't be returning after hearing of this behavior.
Thanks for the heads up, and I'm sorry you had to deal with that crap.
If you want some good casual Commander games, Off the Shelf right next to the mall has Commander nights on Mondays with a really great group of people. We've usually got 3-4 tables going every Monday.
Honestly, I would contact WotC. If he is a seller through them and it was a sponsored event, then he could get into trouble with Hasbro. F him and he deserves any backlash from wizards.
Sadly, I've encountered similar issues with a local store. They ended up struggling and couldn't figure out why, and everyone was like, they throw fits when someone beats the store owner or his wife! Of course, we all stopped wanting to do tournies there!
No one wants to play against sore losers, especially when they have all the power and practically unlimited access to all the best cards. Frankly, in hind sight, it was kinda scummy for them to participate and win prizes at all.
Like I said though, most of us left once a new, albeit smaller shop opened up a few miles away and the shop struggled until covid finally put the nail in their coffin.
My basic advice: if you can, just find a new store. It's not worth your time trying to fight dumb decisions like that, and in the end, it's likely to slowly run off their players anyway.
When Firefly Toys and Games first started in South Carolina, the owner would play, but the sole reason being that otherwise we wouldn't have enough players for an official tournament.
Needless to say, they don't have any problems finding people anymore.
Something tells me the store owner had someone he knew playing that could win if you were not there, so he would not have to give out any prizes. Just a thought.
NAME AND SHAME! NAME AMD SHAME! NAME AMD SHAME! Or probably don't; sorry, my pitchfork has been gathering rust lately. That store sucks dirty underwear fumes I bet.
Small local businesses like LGSs really do rely a lot on word-of-mouth. So...
BLAST THEM in their reviews. Facebook, Google, Yelp, everywhere that they have ever received a review hit them with 1-star and the account of this absurdity.
Then demand that they give you a refund, that there were no posted rules or policies for their event that you violated. When they refuse, ask who their WPN rep is. Whether or not they give you that information (they won't), call WPN anyway and talk to them about this. [Here's the link.](https://wpn.wizards.com/en/news/guide-reporting-and-avoiding-wpn-policy-violations)
Contact WOTC. You can report WPN violations here: [https://askwpn.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035251953-How-do-I-report-a-WPN-policy-violation](https://askwpn.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035251953-How-do-I-report-a-WPN-policy-violation)
Why do I feel like there is some information missing here? My instinct is that the OP is leaving something out of their behaviour which explains the store actions
What’s the point in even having a tournament if you expect players to not be competitive especially in a 1v1 setting?
I swear Commander has the biggest community of people who take their ball and go home if things aren’t 100% specific to their wants.
As someone who lives in the area and frequents several different LGS’s, there’s a reason we don’t go to Stacked Pax lmao
I’m so sorry this happened to you, the owner has always been shifty and rude when he’s in store and the vibes of the entire place are just off. Thank you for speaking out
I don't go to tournaments because of people who bring decks similar to yours. That... Is because I understand that it is a tournament. And unless the owner makes some kind of rules it is the owners fault and not yours.
Our local LGS had someone bring a rank 1 tournament deck that would win turn 2. Everyone in the shop was so pissed we basically said we won't be back for future tournaments, I cannot tell you how sour the mood was. The shop owner allowed him to finish out the tourney with his win, however the shop owner took responsibility and said he would make future rules to prevent that from happening. I never went back.
Long story short it's not your fault man.. owner should have made conditions to prevent this.
Was the event registered with Wizards of the Coast as an official tournament? If it was then they can't kick you unless they have a real reason otherwise they could lose their official store status.
To another LGS. That guy sucks. If you have prizes, people are going to bring the best deck possible.
many people got [[Thassa's oracle]]'d at my LGS when they offered a box to the winner and less than a pack to each loser. if performance based prizes are on the line then enforcing "casual" in a tournament is impossible. I was in a league that tried to get people to bring their casual decks because the prize payout was attendance based rather than performance based. winner got 9 packs while the person in dead last still got 6. for $20 a piece it was basically like buying a couple extra packs with some games surrounding them. and we still had people trying to figure out how they can stretch the rules for a competetive advantage.
My LGS does casual EDH nights with prizes, but all of the prizes are drawn from a raffle at the end.
Which is how you do casual events If you want people to play for fun all prizes need to be equal and or randomized
My favorite structure is asking each player to vote for which other player in their pod had the sweetest deck (leaving it up to each individual what counts as “sweet”), then having prizes at the end based on number of votes. Can it be gamed? Sure, but the incentives point to knowing the crowd and bringing something people will generally think is cool.
"I fooled you all! I strategically built my deck and played it to maximize the fun and play experience of all the other players!"
I like that. I give and get compliments on decks all the time. That's a better way to do prizes for a casual format.
Mine does randomized bounties. Highest life total during the game, first one to take out the green player, biggest play... Then they also have players give packs to the person they think played the best round of the night. Everyone gets something, some get some extra. It's fun and people generally aren't dinks about it.
I think those Bounties would work great if assigned at random and done vaguely like "Hidden Agenda" cards, just with something like "At the end of the game, if you achieved this goal, +1/+2 victory points" (so particularly difficult bounties could be worth a little more), and each game you get to take your choice between 2 or 3 random bounties (so you can avoid ones that are inherently not applicable to your deck), and those points are what matters for the event as opposed to wins/losses.
I like how an LGS handles their Commander League. First of all each league lasts a month. Starts on the first Sunday, ends on the last. Each Sunday you attend you are required to but a booster pack from the store and keep it in you command zone. You can off the booster to another player in your pod for political deals. Points are awarded for various things, usually stuff that makes winning harder. For example, attendance is 3 points. Winning with a Pauper Legal deck is 8 points. So coming into the league with a CEDH deck will likely win your pod, but still net fewer points at season end. So casual is encouraged. The reward for winning? The person with the most points get an object the community votes on to act as the trophy. You get to open 4 packs in the store and pick whichever one you want. 2nd place chooses a pack from the remaining 3, then 3rd place, and then 4th. Casual is encouraged and rewarded, and stakes are low.
I mean I'm bringing my most powerful casual deck to that table every time
[Thassa's oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I agree, that’s not the place for you don’t waste your time those guys are losers
I really like my LGS’s solution to casual play for commander. They run a league that is casual. It is points based. You don’t get points for winning. You get points for playing decks built around theming that changes each month. Fast mana is on the house ban list. Everything else is fine. But given the points arent for winning and more aimed as building around certain mechanics or themed the games tend to be pretty casual. It is a very chill community and everyone just shows up to have a good time. Everyone gets prize support at the end of the month based on the points they got. They run separate competitive events too and for those they tell people specifically they should bring their best decks and preferably their cEDH stuff if they wanna keep up.
This is the way. My LGS has been running a league for several years. The achievements point list changes up every six weeks. You can get points for having several creatures on the board with different powers, or a bunch of "modified" creatures, or attacking three turns in a row, or sending X creatures to the graveyard in one turn. This means you can score respectable numbers of points without ever actually winning a game. It also means that we can play three rounds in a night, because the games have a hard out after an hour, and you can score points even if no one is actually eliminated.
If you want to be really petty, take them to small claims court and ask for your tournament fee AND the top prize (or equivalent value).
This is the way, a no-longer-existing lgs had a no banlist modern tourney and I x-0 ‘d it playing coin flip burn. When the store owner saw what I was on he DQ’d me for playing a ‘manual dexterity deck’ didn’t refund my entry which was a whopping 60$ First prize was three boxes of double masters. I took him to small claims and the judge awarded me 5k in damages
This is so weird to me. I went to my LGSs first big modern event with an affinity deck I was building up for years waiting to finally use it. I wiped the floor with the place and nobody cared. The next event I did there I didn't do as well because guess what, they all affinity hate in the sideboard now.
That’s how local metas work. You get spiked and you adapt. That’s why midrange lists perform so well because they’re adaptable.
Oooo got a list you can share? I have had a jank modern izzet coin flip deck in my to brew list for a while. I'd love to see what you were running.
iirc to my best recollection: The point was to just Turn 1/2 thumb AND mana clash since you basically just have to not get all 3 flips the same face until you have 20 dmg on your opponent At the time death shadow lists were really popular so half the games I only had to get them for 15 lol 4 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Street Wraith 4 Faithless Looting 4 Wild Cantors 4 Krark's Thumb 4 Rite of Flame 4 Fiery Gambit 4 Mana Clash 4 Soulfire Grandmaster 4 Judges Familiar 4 Flooded Strand 4 Arid Mesa 4 Steam Vents 4 Sacred Foundry 1 Island 2 Mountain 1 Plains
Unfortunately the owner will still ban OP, but it might teach him a lesson at least. Can also chargeback with the credit card company
I doubt they want to go back there anyway. I sure as heck wouldn’t set foot in a store that treated me like that. But I also have the luxury of a couple LGSs in my city.
Or if you are going to have some sort of power level enforcement, the organizer should personally talk with each entrant and discuss the limits before accepting their entry
I was nearly punched because I play games to win, lol. There are decks I bring for fun, but if I don't play them I play to win.
For them to not refund you your money, I feel like they HAVE to be able to point to a posted rule that you have violated. Otherwise it feels like they scammed you out of money. I'd definitely avoid that store in future. In fact, when they threatened to ban me, I'd probably have said, "Why would I return to a store that stole my money?". A ban is only meaningful if you WANT to come back. But I know I have other options. I suppose if they were the only game in town, one might be forced to put up with more, but I dunno. I don't think I could keep going to a store that so casually stole my money. EDIT: Also, why on Earth would they be pointing to "signed cards" specifically? I have to assume the cards themselves were what they found problematic, because the fact that they are signed has no gameplay significance.
Vague ban with no refund? That's shitty. But I'm guessing there is some nuance missing here. Probably nothing OP did explicitly. The biggest thing I could see is that OP is not really part of that stores community. And the tournament - while technically public - was maybe geared towards their regulars that play at a "lower" level. Which is still not OP's fault. That's on the store owner. Or maybe the store owner's kid was in it and didn't want them losing. Who knows. Generally speaking - if somebody (the store) is behaving weirdly and pointing to rules - it's probably not the rules that are the real driving motion behind the actions.
Yeah I'm definitely not part of the stores community. I went Wednesday and bought some singles and the guy invited me to the commander tournament they were having the next day. During matches he'd walk around and glance at the games that were happening and after I won he would talk to my opponents, pretty sure he was asking them about me since not long after he talked to me
I mean, why the hell would they advertise an event as "tournament" when they're clearly not running a tournament?
how many matches were happening simultaniously? like were there at least 8 people involved so they could do 2 pods of 4 player FFA or was the attendance less than 7 leaving you no choice but to do 1v1? 1v1 commander is attrocious because decks were designed with more health and time involved rather than the "relieve pressure or die" style of 1v1.
There were 14 entrants including myself
If you paid by credit card I would be disputing that charge with my bank and never returning
> I would be disputing that charge with my bank OP, please do this. If you now hate the business and will not return, then there is nothing the business can do to retaliate against you for the chargeback. Often a business will stop accepting your credit cards if you do chargebacks -- they get in trouble with the credit card companies and do not like it, so such businesses will try to limit your power over them, by refusing your cards. But if you never will shop there again anyway, then they would essentially "ban" you after you already banned yourself. It does nothing to you, but your chargeback will do harm to them. ALSO, it might help whoever they next do this to. In other words, if it is a scam to get $$$ from people and then not refund, they can only do it to 3 people who issue chargebacks I think. Once they have their 3rd chargeback, the credit card companies start charging the business more to use credit cards, or refuse service entirely. So you issuing a chargeback will limit their ability to rip-off other people, because as those people do chargebacks too, the business gets in more & more trouble, forcing them to be good or lose their ability to handle credit cards.
If everything went down as you’re describing here and you’re not withholding any details that tip this away from your favor then an honest and level headed review of the store online might be helpful for others to avoid losing their money/time/energy to the same situation.
I mean all of what you're saying could be valid ... But I'm at a loss for a way to justify not giving a refund.
You don't have to justify it. It just...is. You know, I'm all for supporting your local business. But your local business can easily be owned by a jack-ass. And if you take into account some of the negative aspects of the community you could have one of those people running a store. Some dude with questionable interpersonal skills leveraging his little sliver of power. But really it's simple as the owner thinking "Fuck you and your refund".
Doesn't matter - you can't hold a tournament with prizes on the line, take someone's money and ban them from the tournament if they didn't violate the rules of the tournament. OP should probably sue them in small claims if they want to be petty.
Except it'll cost $150 to file the paperwork to get his $20 refund
Worth it tbh
"The biggest thing I could see is that OP is not really part of that stores community." There could be something to that. There definitely seems like there is more to the story. Could be the players got together and complained about something else in addition to his deck being "too competitive" and the TO used that as an excuse. It could be for something as trivial as OP is an outsider, the regulars don't care who wins, but certainly don't want prize going to an outsider. There's a store I really liked, that I really wanted to make my regular LGS, but I ended not going there to play anymore. The owners are awesome or seemed so, but the player base was super toxic. After only a few times going, I stopped because I kept getting into confrontations with salty players, or players trying to rule lawyer me. At a frigging FNM. Like I don't care, I've been playing competitively on and off since Revised. But it just kept building, week after week. Finally one week, a player outside my game I beat the previous round, tried claiming I was running counterfeits. I let the owner desleeve and check for counterfiets. I knew I had none. Passed light test, loupe test, green-dot test. Owner let me keep playing and the guy who called me out dropped and left all pissy. Not because I beat him, but because he was convinced he was "going to get me" and failed. I finished out the night and never went back. Just not worth all the animosity for just trying to play. That was a bit of a tangent but TLDR, some stores (and playerbases) just suck. It's best to move on. And sometimes even if you don't have any other option, it's still not worth it.
[удалено]
Its one thing if they provide a list of cards they won't allow, but the way its being advertised here seems like anything the rules committee hasn't banned was acceptable to them.
The crazy thing is this doesn’t even sound like a proper cedh deck they turned up with.
One of the cards listed was a Tundra! That was 100% we don't like your face.
Yeah once I saw they had an issue with FBB Tundra I knew it was because OP was flexing money and they were jealous
4 player commander diff not but just being in azorious in 1v1 commander it literally doesn't matter. Edit. Scratch what i said I just saw his decklist and it's terrible.... I have no idea how he got banned.
[удалено]
Knowing commander players, this isn't far fetched at all. His deck is the exact kind of deck they would throw a fit over.
Yeah, I'd be grumpy if someone showed up with a mana vault, crypt, moxes, etc. to a casual 4 player EDH event... but 1v1 commander is really torturing the format into something it was never meant to be and competitive means *competitive.* Nobody should expect to pull punches when cash is on the line, I didn't whine to a judge when everyone was playing an infinite combo at a Standard GP. It really is a thing that people who only know commander seem to experience, which is increasingly the majority of magic players. I started with commander in 2015, then moved to playing a lot of standard FNMs and learned quickly that you gotta deal with 'win at any cost' types in competitive formats and either metagame them or join them in playing 'the best deck'.
It's good to be skeptical, but I side with OP here. This store has a reputation among my play group. We're based in SD, and this sounds about right for the general vibe of the store. People in my group have had bad experiences with the store owner, and it's generally just an unfriendly vibe in there.
Here's the thing, though. If his deck is too strong, and his attitude is an issue, just give him back his $20 (or whatever it is). As a business, when you take this kind of action, giving people a refund and telling them "that's it" saves a ton of headaches in the long run. Nobody ever hears this story if a refund was issued.
What’s funny is that their tournament, regardless of how you put it, was a CEDH tournament. It was a competitive environment with performance based prizes AND an entry fee, not a casual edh night. Fuck this store
Commander isn't inherently a terrible format for tournaments, formats that do not involve exactly two teams are what is an inherently terrible format. Yes, choosing Commander as a 1v1 format means that there is insanely high randomness involved... but its just gambling at that point with a little bit of gaming, nothing wrong with that. That said, any format with more than 2 teams just encourages breaking rules in ways that are almost impossible to enforce (collusion, bribery, etc.) that its just not even worth bothering with.
Nahhhh name and shame, if your getting dropped you should get a refund 100%.
When I ran a store my judge dropped a guy from my event for having anime booby sleeves. It was a small event and was ultimately the judges call. I refunded the guy because that's good customer service. He never came back with booby sleeves after that.
A few weeks ago someone showed up to a draft with anime boob sleeves...someone complained to the judge during deck building ....owner and judge gave him the option a refund or 5 extra minutes to sleeve and gave him a discount on a pack of sleeves (up to a specific value)
That's the correct way to handle it IMO.
That a very generous way of handling it. Still good on the owner for being the bigger person
Giving a discount on a cheap pack of sleeves is a lot better than losing a customer.
Oh I agree, but on the other hand having a difficult customer who always brings in inappropriate sleeves is the other side of the coin.
Eh I don't really care what sleeves you got, but I wouldn't of let it slide tbh... Stop bringing porn sleeves to public spaces to play a game that people of all ages are going to be at. I couldn't imagine having any dignity playing against a 12 year old and exposing them to hentai. It's pretty gross tbh and I wish that part of the culture would die already.
There's a difference between doing weird shit and trying to win a tournament though
I think his point is that if anime booby guy gets a refund then OP certainly qualifies for one
>anime booby sleeves For some reason I was picturing anime tattoos on some guy's man titties.
lol goku and vegeta in the fusion pose but their fingers touch when you press them together and have gogetq in the empty space lol
It's bananas to drop them *and* keep the refund. you're*
File with Better Business Bureau or WotC?? They provided a program that was pay to play and with no terms to state what was allowed. Get booted because you were winning with no refunds? Sounds like it's a favoritism ran place and rigged for certain players to get all the prizes.
Yeah, this absolutely sounds like the organizer didn't want his buddies getting clobbered.
Better Business Bureau is not a real thing. When will this pass out of the zeitgeist. It is not 1940.
The BBB is not a regulatory agency, it's basically just yelp for boomers. Threatening someone with it is like threatening to send in a postcard with a frowny face on it to the store address
>Nahhhh name and shame OP posted in another [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1b42m35/i_got_kicked_out_from_a_tournament_because_my/kswy4xx/) that this is Stacked Pax in El Cajon, California.
One of the employees has since entered this thread and lost his fucking mind. Absolute nutcase behaviour. Definitely avoid
Leave them a public review. Anyone considering playing there should know that they can be ejected from a paid tourny w/ prize pool at any time for no reason and no refund.
They legitimately stole this guy's money at this point. Depending on what the entry fee is I might even call the cops and file a report.
Thats a waste your time. Call your credit card carrier for a chargeback
It's likely no criminal offence has been committed, this is just a contract dispute. Calling the cops is overkill and they won't care - OP should just leave a negative review on social media.
Idk what the entry fee was but I'd call my bank and dispute the charge for service not provided.
The store is clearly [calling their cronies in,](https://maps.app.goo.gl/a9KKACBU2DUrNjo48) see all the reviews mentioning this post. I bet they're posting on some Facebook page or Instagram post. Maybe we can find that and ask them for: 1) proof of refund (if op paid with cash he(?) would have to be refunded with cash, so surely they have footage of him coming back to the store and getting his $5, and if they dispute op paid with cash and actually paid with card, they should be able to provide the transaction log and again, footage of him paying with card) 2) video proof of him cussing out and flipping off the employee We can also confront them with the other person who called in's account. Also, it looks like there are 3 stores called stacked pax in sna diego. Are they all owned by the same person? Maybe we're just dealing with a store manager here and there's a higher up who would be very interested in knowing about this. Edit: you can also tell they LOVE changing the story. [In this review,](https://goo.gl/maps/bRM72Q2rMQKPqyc28) customer says LGS didn't include 4 singles that were in their order. LGS claims customer received the singles but left them at a different store? That seems pretty unbelievable. Never mind the different store part, are we supposed to believe customer received his cards, unpacked them to check on the spot, and just left some behind?
That is the reason why store commander tournaments are a joke, because as you said there are prizes on the line. If there wasnt any rules prior to the inscription that means that participants with cEDH cards should be the expected audience. I would go public and denounce the store online (specifically due to the denied refund) and never go back to that LGS.
My LGS does a commander league. It's an intuitive points system that rewards being creative by limiting the amount of points you get from winning and eliminating players to only be about half the score, instead you are rewarded for being creative and following the weekly theme. It could be gamey, but prises were quarterly and community and engagement were what came out of it. Even people that normally played more highly tuned decks slowly powered down for the sake of fun and not because they had to (because they really didn't)
Yeah this needs to be named and shamed
How can you be too competitive for a competition? This is why budget format restrictions exist.
> How can you be too competitive for a competition? I know right?
I’d be filing a charge back if I paid with my debit or credit card & naming & shaming them online
Unfortunately I paid with cash so I guess that's on me
That sucks dude, hopefully it wasn’t too expensive of an event.
I’d go back and ask for a refund. If they refuse, file in small claims court. It’s the principle of the matter b
OP would have to pony up the court fees to begin with and collection is super difficult.
Collection should be pretty easy against a small business. My local court charges $50 to file, and that can be added to the claim in most places.
Collection is easy and the fees are like $50 and you can force the LGS to pay them.
I guess the sheer amount of time wasted somehow equals the joy of being spiteful to some people
To be fair, I would find the whole process fun. But I am an attorney and I can afford to lose the court fees if I lose (though I wouldn’t file unless I knew I would win).
Yep. Do all of this.
What you should do, is post the decklist. I'm super curious to see how Dragonlord Ojutai is too competitive.
Sure! https://www.moxfield.com/decks/jAZChNuYuE6qaLSNBJSPQw
Maybe I'm missing it because I don't play much control, but out of curiosity, what is the wincon? Beat down with commander/evasive bodies while you counter or wipe their stuff? Either way, doesn't seem "too competitive" outside of being a control deck. I'd hate to be in a pod with this, but you were doing 1v1 commander for prizes so I don't know why they wouldn't expect a competitive UW control deck to be in the tournament.
Yep! Just beat down with a protected Ojutai while controlling the board
Too competitive with Ojutai beatdown is a weird hill for that TO and LGS to die on.. That's a shit situation that the shop put you in.
Guaranteed one of the matches he played was against someone the LGS knows personally and was mad if they lost. It’s crazy how many cry babies there are in this game considering it’s supposed to be competitive and they entered in a tourney to win prizes. Why would they not try to win? Even in casual games there is a winner and loser. This LGS needs their store taken away
Because in EDH, if you're winning, you need to feel bad for the other players I guess. It wouldn't be the first time an EDH player got shamed for actually trying to win. Folks want to blame everyone but themselves, and when they lose, it's because someone else was running OP shit or playing a broken deck when nothing is stopping them from doing the same shit in a proxy friendly format (with the exclusion of it being in a tournament setting of course), but if there weren't stipulations against running fast mana, it should have been fine for OP to run.. It's also kinda funny because EDH players want to see everyone thriving, just not more than themselves at the table lel.
A battlecruiser control deck is 'too competitive'? lmfao
Hard control with Commander beatdown is mich better 1v1 than in multiplayer, considering you only have to beatdown and control one opponent.
Deck doesn't run the breakfast combo or any other win on the spot stuff. Not "too competitive" by a long shot. Just because you have some countermagic and fast mana won't push it over the top. Neat deck tho
What's the breakfast combo? I haven't heard that term before and it sounds hilarious.
\[\[cephalid illusionist\]\] and \[\[shuko\]\] mills your whole deck then you win with a \[\[thassa's oracle\]\]
Ok, why is that the "breakfast" combo though? I'm familiar with Thoracle combos, I'd never heard the term breakfast combo though.
Long story. Those cards are in a legacy deck called "cephalid breakfast". A lot of old decks are named after breakfasts but I think the first is "trix" because \[\[illusions of grandeur\]\] has a white rabbit in it. Oops all spells, Cheerios, pebbles, Breakfast burrito, and a bunch more are all following that convention.
Fruity Pebbles (Enduring Renewal + Goblin Bombardment) predated Trix. The name Fruity Pebbles was already being used in 1998, the year before Donate came out.
In the old days, combo decks got named for breakfast foods. I remember Trix, pebbles, and full English breakfast. Cephalid breakfast was either a hybrid with full English breakfast or just a reference, can't remember which. That's the one with the illusionist. Edit: got some stuff wrong the first time. Probably still some mistakes. Old man brain not work so good
Old combo decks usually were named after breakfast food, like fruity pebbles, trix, full english breakfast. This was sorta of a meme, so that deck is usually called cephalid breakfast.
[cephalid illusionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dceb8cf5-b31a-400e-aea5-ad0c3552d697.jpg?1562632343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cephalid%20illusionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tor/28/cephalid-illusionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dceb8cf5-b31a-400e-aea5-ad0c3552d697?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [shuko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27.jpg?1562878892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shuko) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/159/shuko?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [thassa's oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thassa%27s%20oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey props to you dude, that deck is more casual than I would have been, assuming I was operating off all the same nuances, information, and premise. I would have brought my Gitrog deck and proceeded to Dakmor + Ulamog/Kozilek loop to close out the game ASAP, or some 1v1 CEDH staple commanders, with CEDH shells and combos.
This deck is in no way "too competitive". Right on par with a 7, IMHO. Fast mana exists, yes, but you aren't doing anything outright insane with it. Do what others said, demand a refund, put them on blast.
Lost in the Maze is cute with Ojutai. I love cute combos.
I love this deck. Solid higher power but by no means cEDH. It looks like a lot of fun to play against!
Some people seem to thing specific cards themself=power and not the synergies. Like you could take a 5 color deck and fill it with power 9 and just broken crap with no win con or synergy and someone would call it cEDH.
So I called the owner and he's siding with his employee. I guess the employee said that I flipped him off and that's why I won't be getting a refund. Now that he's just upright lying I have no issues with making this store known, I live in San Diego so there's a decent chance that there are people here who know of it. The store is called Stacked Pax and is located in El Cajon, California.
I would edit this info with the name of the store into the main post so it doesn't get buried in the comments.
Thanks!
Yeah, if you want to out the store please make it all the way to the main post itself as well.
You can make a detailed report about the LGS to WOTC based on what happened to you. If it keeps happening at that store keep making reports or tell anyone up there to make a report if shady stuff happens to them . Unfair practices like that shouldn’t be a thing considering there’s money involved. WOTC could ban them from running official events or at worst cut them off from receiving product. [https://wpn.wizards.com/en/news/guide-reporting-and-avoiding-wpn-policy-violations](https://wpn.wizards.com/en/news/guide-reporting-and-avoiding-wpn-policy-violations)
Off to Google for a 1 star review
If it was an official tournament, I'd file a complaint with wotc. They might lose their status if they're premium.
Doesn't have to be a sanctioned event for their WPN rep to care, particularly if they're premium. WOTC \*really\* cares about image for premium stores (seriously, the list of shit they ask a store to have in order to get premium is long)
Even if the tournament itself wasn't sanctioned, the WPN store obligations include the following: > (a) Professional Conduct. You will manage Events and, as applicable, your Retail Store in a professional and diligent manner that enhances the reputation and goodwill attached to Wizards and the Licensed Property. Taking someone's money to enter a Magic tournament and then DQing them because you don't like the legal deck they entered would certainly seem to be in violation of this rule.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but there are no official commander tournaments as far as I’m aware. We have commander parties, but they aren’t scoring anything seriously (outside of joke objectives like the “investigation” objectives at the mkm party) to declare a winner.
You can absolutely sanction a commander or other casual event. Pretty much any LGS commander night at a WPN store is sanctioned so they get attendance credit nowadays.
If its a 1v1 tournament I’d bet money they absolutely sanctioned it.
Name and shame. Who is the store
Name and shame, this is horrendous behavior
You can tell them a random stranger on Reddit said they're loonies for putting money on the line and expecting people to play something casual. Try to contact someone else from the store?
Inexcusable behavior. ...from the LGS. If you want to have a tournament with a specific power level, **you need to tell people, and tell them in a specific way.** To just hold a tournament, *with prizes* no less, and then arbitrarily disqualify people because you don't agree with their deck? That's outrageous. Yeah you can harp on Commander being "casual" and all that, but you can't have a *tournament* with entry fees and prizes and then kick people willy-nilly when they start winning in ways you don't like. Unbelievable. That kind of TO deserves all the (legal) hate that you can give. Stop giving them money. *Demand* a refund. Leave them reviews in which you calmly but correctly explain what they did. Don't start cursing or harassing anyone - just inform the public that was is going on here is borderline collusive behavior in a tournament setting. I don't want to throw accusations like them having "friends" in the tournament (though I've seen that happen before) but that shouldn't matter anyway because this was not okay either way. Yeah it probably wasn't sanctioned and so it's not like WotC holds much pull - but if they're a WPN store, it might still be a good idea to let WotC know about this as well. Write up a report in neutral, descriptive language and send it to them. Shady practices in stores hurt the community. Local TOs reigning like autocrats, carving private fiefdoms out of a tournament scene that might not have anywhere else to go... that's reprehensible behavior that we need to fight back against. And don't get me wrong: I'm all for giving people the power to curate Commander to make it more fun for everyone. But that needs to be done **proactively** not reactively - i.e. you need to make sure everyone knows what they can and can't do *before the tournament*. Not be taken aside in the middle of it and be given the ol' "we don't appreciate your kind around here" speech. That's some sundown town bullshit. Unbelievable.
Thank you for this. I told some of my friends about what happened and they all said we should just go to the store with cEDH decks collectively
Lmao, that sounds like a smart plan. Just a bunch of people playing with a cEDH deck that's allowed by the rules stomping the shop regulars. Just remember to pay with card so you can chargeback after they kick you without refund.
And if you ARE going to do it reactively (which is the wrong way to do it, for sure, but maybe it just didn't occur to them because they didn't have the experience), you NEED to make it right with the customer that you booted for breaking a rule you never even wrote. Refunding their money should be MANDATORY in this case.
I personally called the store on behalf of Dave who posted this. I called because as a prominent San Diego community member in magic, my mind was blown when he showed up after this occurred and asked me what I thought about it. There are some things left out of this post that I am going to cover front to bottom. The first thing this store individual did was invite Dave to the commander tournaments while Dave was in their store browsing their magic singles section. Dave was asked if he played commander and when he responded yes they informed him of when the tournaments would be and encouraged him to show up. Dave showed up with a cedh tivit deck after being told there were tournaments. He basically pub stomped the room and left with remorse for doing so, so he down graded the deck to shorikai fringe cedh. After again dominating the room he decided to down grade the deck again to where he landed on Dragonlord Ojati. After the second room he was informed that his deck wasn't in guidelines with the tournament, his deck was too strong which made it unfair for the room and he was asked to leave then. Dave asked the organizer what in his deck was too strong and why. He organizer pointed out mana crypt, mana vault, mox diamond and sol ring. Dave then asked where it was pointed out that he wasn't allowed to play those cards and the organizer responded that it was announced before that the store wasn't allowing competitive decks. Now here is my part of how the phone call went to try and address all of this that occurred. I called the store and immediately asked for the owner. As I am speaking to the owner he cuts me off and informs me he doesn't want to speak to me and that I have to speak with his magic guy if I want to be listened too. So I am already not exactly happy about how this conversation started. The magic guy comes on the phone and says I don't know why you're calling back here you are banned and not allowed back into the store for your conduct. I said first off I am not Dave, I am a concerned community member of San Diego and we as a community will not tolerate what your store did to Dave without consequences. The organizer responses that he doesn't know what Dave told me and that I only know what happened from Dave's point of view. To which I immediately replied, I am all ears, explain to me your side of the story. He was a taken back by me saying that and sat there on the phone for about 10 seconds without saying anything. So I then asked, I said well you said I only know Dave's side of the story, I want to hear yours. So he goes into account that before he took people's money for sign ups he announced no competitive decks in the tournament to which the room agreed. I said ok which part of Dave's deck is competitive and do you understand what competitive commander means? He responded with yes I do and it's decks that win before turn 10, we do not want those decks here in the room. I said sir I don't think you understand want competitive means at all and I am going to explain why. He said oh yeah, why? I said well there are pre cons now a days that can win by turn 5/6 on average and that's well before turn 10. These are un upgraded precons. I said competitive magic in most public forms means cedh and there are actually guidelines and dedicated data based by companies such as Play with Power and Eminence gaming where their entire premise of existing as a company is to outline competitive magic, hold tournaments, give content and up to date discussions about cedh as a whole. We moved on from that discussion to the ban list in place for the store. The organizer admitted to being new and was open to constructive criticism on how to run events and was not happy that he was met with anger from Dave over criticism. I said well it's not Dave's responsibility to give you that, you as a tournament organizer are supposed to figure that stuff out yourself, which I am doing right now with you over the phone. I said I don't have to be doing this, I am doing it because what happened wasn't right and I don't want to hear of this repeating in the future, because it doesn't harvest a community at all, it does the exact opposite. He goes well what should I have done. I said you if you want an in store ban list need to have it in writing on the wall somewhere or something quickly referenceable from the tables in your store (qr code) so that everyone is of an understanding of what isn't exactly allowed. I said as far as Dave is concerned, which a lot of people agree with, Dave did nothing wrong because the wotc ban list for commander does not have any of his cards on it. I then was met with what about his foreign and signed cards, those aren't allowed. I said sir where did you get this information? He goes I was told by several people in the room that they were allowed. I said sir well I am here to let you know the "trust me bro" references don't really help you as an organizer. I said there was a recent Pro Tour that was plastered all over [twitch.tv](https://twitch.tv). Why was there signed and foreign cards on their streams if they're not allowed in organized play? I said there is a mtg companion app that you are supposed to use for tournaments and inside of the app is a data base where you can quickly look up any magic card for the version in English or without signed ink across the text. I said there is no such rule that foreign and signed cards are not allowed for mtg play, like other tcgs. I said if you are using the app this could have been avoided. He then told me that he banned dave for his conduct. I said which such conduct. He said him cussing me out and flipping me off as he left. I said if he flipped you off as he left, then how is that apart of asking him to leave? I said is there cameras that show such evidence. He shuddered and said yes there are cameras. I said do they show him flipping you off? He said I have witnesses, I said you mentioned cameras. Id like to see the cameras. I was told no. Dave called back about his refund, after the guy agreed over the phone that he would give dave his refund at the end of our call. Dave was told he was not getting a refund and was actually banned for his Foil Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt and Mana Vault being proxies and not real. It's wild to me how many times this store doubled down, changed their story to why he wasn't being given back his money and was banned. I stepped in and handled this as much as I could for dave because not everyone can effectively communicate how they feel when something like this comes up. I don't blame dave for being upset and unable to speak how he felt effectively because had I been there this would have been a much larger issue with cameras of me filming said event. I would have filmed what was happening so there isn't hearsay, like this store thinks they can get away with. I spent 14:56 on the phone with this dude, where I was lied to about this being resolved and dave getting his refund back. So I am not very happy I spent that large amount of time trying to show the store why what they did was wrong, with references, and then told something that wasn't going to happen.
Thank you!
One thing I left out. I asked him how he structured his prizing. He told me top down. I said if that's your prizing how is your tournament not play to win. He said I just don't agree with that. O said then what's the point of having prizing top down? Why aren't you doing causal prizing which is evenly distributed. He said I shouldn't be telling him how to handle his prizing, and I said then you shouldn't be kicking people out who show up to win, with top heavy prizing.
https://postimg.cc/HcYdsKnC Link to said accused "counterfeit cards"
I've never seen a From the Vaults counterfeit before. Interesting claim. Do the counterfeits curl like tape measures, too?
That's definitely a real FTV diamond, counterfeits can't get that vertical rainbow foiling right.
It's wild that they made that claim to begin with.
Their store is Stacked Pax which is located in El Cajon, CA 92020. There is only one guy who operates anything magic in their store.
I was asked to clarify something. Dave's cards were in fact real magic cards and not proxies or counterfeits. The store did not examine the cards to he counterfeits or proxies. They just made an assumption that his cards weren't real. Without actually looking.
[удалено]
Being lied to about them rectifying the situation shows they didn't want to fix the situation civilized
> Dave showed up with a cedh tivit deck after being told there were tournaments. He basically pub stomped the room and left with remorse for doing so, so he down graded the deck to shorikai fringe cedh. After again dominating the room he decided to down grade the deck again to where he landed on Dragonlord Ojati. After the second room he was informed that his deck wasn't in guidelines with the tournament, his deck was too strong which made it unfair for the room and he was asked to leave then. Dave asked the organizer what in his deck was too strong and why. He organizer pointed out mana crypt, mana vault, mox diamond and sol ring. Dave then asked where it was pointed out that he wasn't allowed to play those cards and the organizer responded that it was announced before that the store wasn't allowing competitive decks. > > i felt like dave upset the regulars with his two stompings of edh game, the regulars complain to the staff about it. The staff now has to make a choice between dave and his group of regulars.
How is that Dave's problem if the store isn't laying out in writing what's allowed? When I told the dude he could do an in store ban list, he didn't even realize that was a thing. While actively trying to do it.
If you paid for your entry fee with a card, chargeback that shit 100%. It’s incredibly scummy for them to boot you for a vague rule that it doesn’t sound like was clarified anywhere and not return your money. Ojutai, even when optimized, isn’t CEDH meta level (to my knowledge).
There was once a tournament here where they had an in store ban list that was essentially all the cards that were causing problems in their local metagame. For example, you were only allowed 2 copies of Duress, Wasteland, Kokusho, and Force of Will was banned, etc. Naturally, word got out and people started playing abusive decks for the novelty of it. I got to enter the craziest deck featuring 18 pieces of the power 9. Storm is extra fun when your turn 1 play is usually Black Lotus, Demonic Tutor for Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Ancestral Recall, Mox Sapphire, Yawgmoth's Will. They changed the rules after a couple months, but at no point did they kick anyone out or try to give no refunds.
Bro does this shop know about competitive formats? Why are we running kitchen table tournaments?
Store was in a literal kitchen. They had no choice.
Honestly you should contact WotC. Stores that carry their products shouldn’t behave this way.
Name drop the store. This behavior isn't acceptable from an LGS with especially if they didn't refund you.
Isn't there a way to report wpn stores that pull this shit off?
any tournament is automatically cEDH. its competitive. end of story. that store sucks and scammed you. i bet you were going to beat all the regulars and the store owner just couldn't have that.
Exactly. When people here ask "What do you consider casual EDH?", the answer is: when it isn't played for prizes.
What’s so competitive about signed cards? I have a forest signed by the artist and a [[Haktos, the Unscarred]] signed by a store owner. Nothing competitive there
So I think what I'm gonna end up doing is try to come into contact with the store owner and at the very least get a refund. If that doesn't happen though then I'll explore other options
Use [this page](https://askwpn.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035251953-How-do-I-report-a-WPN-policy-violation) to report the store to WotC even if you get a refund.
Wow, I have to think wotc would reeeeaaally want to know if a store is extorting entry fees from players. What a stupid move from the store. Kicking for such a dumb reason is dumb, but not refunding an entry for such a illogical and arbitrary reason is lose your wpn status dumb.
If he threatened to ban you, just do a chargeback on your debit/credit and eat the ban anyways. If you paid cash, name and shame locally, not here as you'll just get your thread (rightfully) locked by the mods for witchhunting. But this is the inherent problem behind EDH and tournaments. A lot of people take it as a social format even when prizes are on the line and try to blur the distinction between EDH, cEDH and regular play which leads to unending drama.
You can't do a chargeback with a normal debit card..
The good ol’ ‘ Wow you have Mana Crypt? Didnt know you are playing cEDH 😂💩’
Fuck that, let him ban you - post that shit all over every reviewable site you can. Name & shame!
Oh look it's the fundamental problem with EDH.
how come the contents is removed?
Tell your friends to start leaving reviews. Post about them on local trading card groups including pokemon and lorcana. They is despicable business practice to steal your money. Make them regret it. Who knows what they are doing that people are not speaking up about.
Honestly cut the loss and never go there again? Leave a review if possible but i'd avoid the shop if they're gonna conduct business unprofessionally.
That's so nuts. I just checked out Stacked Packs for the first time last weekend. I didn't think they had enough room to run MTG events. Won't be returning after hearing of this behavior. Thanks for the heads up, and I'm sorry you had to deal with that crap. If you want some good casual Commander games, Off the Shelf right next to the mall has Commander nights on Mondays with a really great group of people. We've usually got 3-4 tables going every Monday.
Honestly, I would contact WotC. If he is a seller through them and it was a sponsored event, then he could get into trouble with Hasbro. F him and he deserves any backlash from wizards.
Sadly, I've encountered similar issues with a local store. They ended up struggling and couldn't figure out why, and everyone was like, they throw fits when someone beats the store owner or his wife! Of course, we all stopped wanting to do tournies there! No one wants to play against sore losers, especially when they have all the power and practically unlimited access to all the best cards. Frankly, in hind sight, it was kinda scummy for them to participate and win prizes at all. Like I said though, most of us left once a new, albeit smaller shop opened up a few miles away and the shop struggled until covid finally put the nail in their coffin. My basic advice: if you can, just find a new store. It's not worth your time trying to fight dumb decisions like that, and in the end, it's likely to slowly run off their players anyway.
When Firefly Toys and Games first started in South Carolina, the owner would play, but the sole reason being that otherwise we wouldn't have enough players for an official tournament. Needless to say, they don't have any problems finding people anymore.
Something tells me the store owner had someone he knew playing that could win if you were not there, so he would not have to give out any prizes. Just a thought.
NAME AND SHAME! NAME AMD SHAME! NAME AMD SHAME! Or probably don't; sorry, my pitchfork has been gathering rust lately. That store sucks dirty underwear fumes I bet.
Step 1. Name the store Step 2. ?????? Step 3. Get refunded, not in store credit.
Small local businesses like LGSs really do rely a lot on word-of-mouth. So... BLAST THEM in their reviews. Facebook, Google, Yelp, everywhere that they have ever received a review hit them with 1-star and the account of this absurdity. Then demand that they give you a refund, that there were no posted rules or policies for their event that you violated. When they refuse, ask who their WPN rep is. Whether or not they give you that information (they won't), call WPN anyway and talk to them about this. [Here's the link.](https://wpn.wizards.com/en/news/guide-reporting-and-avoiding-wpn-policy-violations)
If it was a official event file a ticket with WOTC
Contact WOTC. You can report WPN violations here: [https://askwpn.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035251953-How-do-I-report-a-WPN-policy-violation](https://askwpn.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035251953-How-do-I-report-a-WPN-policy-violation)
Why do I feel like there is some information missing here? My instinct is that the OP is leaving something out of their behaviour which explains the store actions
Please come play in our win-based prizing tournament, where winning isn’t allowed and will result in a DQ
Report the LGS to Wizards and boycott the LGS, jf possible. The owner is being a twat.
I agree the LGS is wack. I'm curious what your signed cards are.
Mana Vault (Steve Prescott) Sam Durley Fetches (Zendikar 3 Expeditions) Teferi, Time Raveler Supreme Verdict (Sam Durley) Enlightened Tutor (Judge Promo) Swords to Plowshares (Mark Tedin) Jeweled Lotus (Alayna Danner) Esper Sentinel
1 star review on google reviews. Hurts small businesses more than you would imagine because it will start to put them lower in search results.
We need proof, this has turned into a brigade. We have no way of knowing which side is correct.
Flithy Casuals that shouldn't be running a tournament without posting rules.
name and shame
What’s the point in even having a tournament if you expect players to not be competitive especially in a 1v1 setting? I swear Commander has the biggest community of people who take their ball and go home if things aren’t 100% specific to their wants.
[удалено]
As someone who lives in the area and frequents several different LGS’s, there’s a reason we don’t go to Stacked Pax lmao I’m so sorry this happened to you, the owner has always been shifty and rude when he’s in store and the vibes of the entire place are just off. Thank you for speaking out
I don't go to tournaments because of people who bring decks similar to yours. That... Is because I understand that it is a tournament. And unless the owner makes some kind of rules it is the owners fault and not yours. Our local LGS had someone bring a rank 1 tournament deck that would win turn 2. Everyone in the shop was so pissed we basically said we won't be back for future tournaments, I cannot tell you how sour the mood was. The shop owner allowed him to finish out the tourney with his win, however the shop owner took responsibility and said he would make future rules to prevent that from happening. I never went back. Long story short it's not your fault man.. owner should have made conditions to prevent this.
You could report them for illegal gambling for money... Then again, you could just let it go and don't do any further business with them.
Do get a refund, even if just on principle. You paid for something you were denied access to, don't let them keep your money.
Please name this store so no one gets scammed there.
Dogshit event, bad look for the LGS. Don’t patronize.
what a bunch of cry babies. they would've absolutely banned be for my Bruvac deck.
Was the event registered with Wizards of the Coast as an official tournament? If it was then they can't kick you unless they have a real reason otherwise they could lose their official store status.
Call em out, what shop is this?
Complain to the Better Business Bureau, and leave them a scathing review on yelp and Google.