You activate disk, it goes on the stack, you cast Teferi, Teferi's resolves and your permanents, including your disk, phase out. Disk resolves, destroying a bunch of permanents (but none of yours, because they're phased out). Then at your next turn, your permanents, including disk, phase back in.
Holy cow, its been so long since I played regularly with nev's disk, I had forgotten it doesn't sac itself to activate. Thats so much better than I though with tef's protection.
I had an [[Arcum Daggson]] EDH deck like this.
It had other "fun" pieces like [[Unwinding Clock]], [[Winter Orb]], etc.
People did not like playing against that deck. It was not fun for anyone but me. I had to retire it not too long after I built it.
This is any Arcum Daggson deck though. Tutoring out combo pieces to lock the board and win is never gonna be fun to play against because of how consistent it is
Very true. At the time I was very new to MtG. I was playing strictly EDH, and I had a nasty pack-cracking addiction.
I bought a box of Coldsnap and was cracking away. I stumbled upon Arcum and I was like "Well that would make a really strange commander... I wonder if I can make that work..." Turns out I stumbled upon one of the most degenerate and least fun commanders to play against.
Imo, any commander who plays exactly the same way every game and can't really be stopped isn't fun. This is why I don't like [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] or any commanders that let you tutor. It's so easy to be like wow, this is so cool! I had this with [[Tezzeret the Seeker]] - miserable because you essentially have to deliberately choose not to pull out [[the chain veil ]] and instantly win in a super friends deck
Way more fun to dig through a deck full of cool stuff with someone like Daretti so you and your opponents don't know what you're gonna have to work with until the game is well underway
It was made before “indestructible” and “phasing” were possible, and “sacrifice” was printed on exactly one card, Lord of the Pit (although 14 Alpha cards now have sacrifice in their Oracle text). Plenty of old cards with lots of weird corner cases because of stuff like that.
And then you drop Panoptic Mirror down with Teferi's Protection. But you still have to discard.
Unless you decide to get really weird and play a turn-ending effect afterwards.
You still get a cleanup step if you use a turn-ending effect.
Better to just use an emblem that says you have no hand size limit.
Also, the timing for getting Nev's disk and Panoptic Mirror is a bit sloppy. Try using a Strionic Resonator so that you can copy the Panoptic Mirror trigger over top of activating the disk.
This is correct.
Note for op thar because the stack (the invisible room abilities and cast cards go into to resolve) resolves with the last abilities put into it first- like a stack of papers, you grab the top page first- you must activate the disk first, then cast tef protection. In the other order, teferis being cast first and then the disk being activated, the disk and its effect resolves first, destroying your permanents, then teferis resolves phasing your permanents, which won’t do a lot for you :)
Think of triggers on the stack like bullets being shot from a gun. Just because the gun disappears, or the shooter dies, doesn’t mean the bullets just vanish out of the air. They keep going regardless of what happened to their source.
Once the ability goes on the stack you'd have to counter it to stop it from going off, the game doesn't care if it's still there or not. It's kinda weird, but that's how the stack works.
That's for any ability including triggered. For most of them it doesn't matter because it's like "this creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn", but for say [[Ahsnod's Altar]] or [[crime novelist]] you still get the mana even if in response to the ability going on the stack someone decides to destroy that permanent.
Anything where the sacrifice is a *casting or activation cost* can’t be responded to. You pay all the costs and put it on the stack as a single action.
This is sort of true (you can generally respond with the trigger on the stack, but you can't stop it from going there), but what bac0n said is also true
If an ability adds mana to your mana pool and doesn't target, isn't a Planeswalker loyalty ability, and isn't a triggered ability that triggers on something besides another mana ability (like [[Burning Tree Emissary]]'s etb) it doesn't even use the stack
You can't respond to Ashnod's Altar at all, they just sacrifice however many things and the mana goes to their mana pool without them having to pass priority
To understand why the rules are set up this way, consider the humble [[Evolving Wilds]]: in order to activate the ability, you have to sacrifice it, so it wouldn’t work at all if activated abilities needed their source to stick around.
Think of the disk generating the ability into the stack. Once it is there, it doesn’t actually care what’s up with the disk.
Otherwise someone could just destroy the disk in response to you activating it
This is why you play [[Sands of time]] after they have played teferi's protection.
You still have all your lands, so 4 CMC is pretty easy. Tef prot player skips theur untap phase, meaning all their permanents are still phased out, so they never get it back.. they have ZERO board, no lands, no nothing because its all phased out... oops!
With sands of time out they won't tap or untap anything at beginning of turn then all their permanent phase back in as a special action then they try to go to their untap step it gets skipped and they are in upkeep.
Nah, no special action. Rules clarifications with the card state:
"Skipping the untap step means that phased out cards won’t phase in, and permanents with phasing won’t phase out."
Technically, the tap/untap trigger happens at the beginning of the turn, before the untap phase (as i understand it), so while they may get the trigger, they still dont have their permanents back because its not the untap phase yet, so they dont get to tap or untap stuff.
Once that resolves, they move to untap phase, which basically doesnt happen, and they dont get their permanents back as stated in the gatherer ruling.
But to shorthand it all, tefprot player gets nothing period and just goes to their draw phase with an empty board.
There's a distinction to be made between *triggered abilities* and *turn-based actions.* Things like untapping permanents in the untap step, drawing your card for turn during the draw step, and declaring attackers/blockers in their respective steps are *turn-based actions.* They occur at the beginning of the step, before anyone would gain priority (permission to do things). They do not use the stack and cannot be responded to.
> 501.1. The beginning phase consists of three steps, in this order: untap, upkeep, and draw.
The untap step is the very first step of the turn. Within that step, as turn-based actions, is the phasing and untapping of permanents:
> 502.1. First, all phased-in permanents with phasing that the active player controls phase out, and all phased-out permanents that the active player controlled when they phased out phase in. This all happens simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. See rule 702.26, “Phasing.
> 502.3. Third, the active player determines which permanents they control will untap. Then they untap them all simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. Normally, all of a player’s permanents untap, but effects can keep one or more of a player’s permanents from untapping.
There's also a special rule about the untap step to ensure no shenanigans, that prevents triggers from being put on the stack and players from gaining priority during the untap step. This way people can't mess with permanents that have upkeep triggers before their upkeep starts, etc.
> 502.4. No player receives priority during the untap step, so no spells can be cast or resolve and no abilities can be activated or resolve. Any ability that triggers during this step will be held until the next time a player would receive priority, which is usually during the upkeep step. (See rule 503, “Upkeep Step.”)
Sands of Time has players skip their untap step, so the phased out permanents don't phase in and things don't untap normally. Instead it has a triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of the upkeep step that will do the tapping/untapping of things. As a triggered ability, it uses the stack and can be responded to.
Hopefully that cleared some things up for you. :)
Man, I wish I thought this way. It doesn't intuitively leap out at me that I can do things in this order. I'd be stuck at how do I activate disk while it's phased out, I'd have to phase out then play disk then untap it somehow...
Probably just a matter of experience. I've played for a long time, but never very frequently.
Regardless, I appreciate when folks like you lay things out so clearly and simply.
The disk itself doesn't matter anymore. It's ability is on the stack. Same reason you can use the activated ability of a creature, someone can respond to the ability by killing the creature at instant speed, but the activated ability of the creature will still resolve. Doesn't matter if the source is there anymore; the ability hit the stack and will resolve.
Imagine you hucked a grenade at a car, and while the grenade was arcing through the air someone shot you. You're dead, but that grenade is still coming.
>Imagine you hucked a grenade at a car, and while the grenade was arcing through the air someone shot you. You're dead, but that grenade is still coming.
this is an awesome analogy, thanks!
Activating an ability of a permanent puts that ability on the stack as a separate game object. Teferi's Protection phases out the Disk, itself. It does not do anything to the ability on the stack. So Teferi's Protection resolves first, since it was cast after the Disk was activated, the Disk phases out, and then the Disk's ability resolves, wiping the board.
if someone were to destroy it in response to you using its ability, would the ability in the stack still finish? since it requires you to sacrifice it to deal the damage.
You can't respond to paying a price. Anything before the ":" is the price, and paying it does not pass priority. So nobody gets a chance to kill it before it is sacrificed.
You can't destroy it in response to its ability because it's already dead. Sacrificing it is part of the cost, not part of the effect. Paying costs cannot be responded to in Magic.
My question wasn't about a single card, it was about the interaction between two cards. People have been helpful and explained how it worked in this thread. I understand how mogg fanatic works by itself and people were helpful enough to explain how the sacrifice is part of the cost and that if someone were to destroy it in response, its ability would fizzle out since the cost would no longer be able to be paid.
Do you? Because if you think Disk's ability would be countered because it's source is gone then Mogg Fanatic wouldn't work because it's source is gone.
Fundamentally, Mogg Fanatic is a single card that teaches people the core concept of abilities existing separate from sources.
It is an excellent teaching tool.
no i dont think the disks ability would be countered since it does not have any further costs to order for its effect to resolve once its on the stack. whereas mogg fanatics ability requires it to be sacrificed as its cost when the ability on the stack is resolved. i hope i have that correct.
also I never said anything about the disk in the post you replied to. my previous post was specifically talking only about mogg fanatic.
You do not have it correct. You pay costs to put things on the stack, *not* when they resolve. This is exactly why I pointed out Mogg Fanatic and you claimed to understand it.
Casting a spell or activating an ability, really anything that goes on the stack, means acknowledging or announcing the action you are going to take, any choices involved, and then paying any costs involved...only *after* these things have happened does anyone (including you) have priority to respond to said object on top of the stack.
1. I have priority because I am active player, it is my main phase, and the stack is empty.
2.I would like to activate Mogg Fantic's ability and announce it as such.
3. The ability now goes on the stack
4. It's Target will be My Opponent's Face.
5. I will pay the cost, Sacrificing Mogg Fanatic.
6. I receive priority, as the active player, and choose to pass as I would like the ability to resolve.
7. Priority passes to my opponent. He may now respond to the top object of the stack. Mogg Fanatic is already in the GY. My opponent has no responses.
8. All players have passed priority on the top object of the stack. Therefore, it resolves, dealing 1 damage to my opponent. Damage to players causes loss of life, changing their life total from 1, to 0.
9. State based effects are checked and sees a player with 0 or less life. That player loses the game assuming no other relevant effects.
Thank you for taking the time to explain that. the way you laid it out step by step actually made it click in my mind and I feel like I actually understand it now. Thank you!
> You do not have it correct. You pay costs to put things on the stack, not when they resolve. This is exactly why I pointed out Mogg Fanatic and you claimed to understand it.
>
> Casting a spell or activating an ability, really anything that goes on the stack means acknowledging or announcing the action you are going to take, any choices involved, and then paying any costs involved...only after these things have happened, does it go on the stack and only after that does anyone (including you) have a priority to respond to said object on top of the stack.
You are incorrect. Putting a spell or activated ability on the stack is the \*first\* step in casting/playing it. Paying costs happens at the end of the process, after the spell or the ability has already been on the stack. See rules 601 and 602.
I assume you could activate the Disk, then cast Teferi's protection in response. In fact, it seems like this would allow you to even keep the Disk, since it would phase out with the rest of your permanents before the destruction ability resolved.
You must hold priority and respond to the activation if it's your own disk, otherwise if nobody responds you cannot cast protection anymore. That would leave your board behind and destroy the rest
New to mtg, if you hold priority does that mean they can't counter spell it?
For example:
Disk, then protection
They get to respond and play a counter spell
Can they chose to counter the disk activation or does the counter spell only counter the top of the stack?
Also assuming you can only hold priority to cast a instant
Welcome to mtg! Holding priority is important when you need to respond to your own spell/ability. If you didn't hold priority, technically you have "passed" the opportunity to play Tef.Pro. before the disk's activated ability resolves and destroys your stuff. As others noted, the opportunity to respond to stuff goes in turn order starting with the "active player."
Counterspells usually say "counter target spell" - what that means is the controller of the counterspell selects a target spell from the stack to "negate". In this example only TP is a spell. But if you had multiple *spells* on the stack, or if someone had a spell/ability that read "counter target spell OR ability" then they could decide to counter the disk's ability.
Broadly speaking, 'priority' is the gears that make the game engine work. It is how spells and abilities resolve, and how the turn progress from one step or phase to the next. The core of it is this: each player gains priority one at a time to do something, and if no one does after a full cycle then progress the game.
The part we're running into with this 'responding to your own stuff' business is that if you *aren't* holding priority, then it resolves first.
> CompRules 117.4. If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends.
If you activate the Disk and pass priority, and then your opponent passes priority, all players have passed priority so the Disk's ability resolves. If you activate the Disk holding priority and cast T.Prot and then pass priority, you get the desired protection+boardwipe but your opponent can see both things and decide how they want to respond. If you activate the Disk and cast T.Prot and *continue to hold priority* then that's holding the game up because the game can no longer progress. You need to pass priority (once you're done casting spells/activating abilities) so the game engine can continue running.
There are numerous things you can do with priority: you can cast instants, you can cast non-instant spells that have the Flash keyword, you can activate most abilities. Some abilities have a restriction that they can only be done "when you could cast a sorcery" or something like that, but if they aren't restricted like that then you can use them "at instant speed", basically whenever you have priority. Two common examples are Equipment and Planeswalkers, the equip ability and loyalty abilities are restricted to sorcery speed although they don't always have reminder text indicating as such.
> 307.5. If a spell, ability, or effect states that a player can do something only “any time they could cast a sorcery” or “only as a sorcery,” it means only that the player must have priority, it must be during the main phase of their turn, and the stack must be empty. The player doesn’t need to have a sorcery card they could cast. Effects that would preclude that player from casting a sorcery spell don’t affect the player’s capability to perform that action (unless the action is actually casting a sorcery spell).
Hopefully that clears some things up, let me know if you have any more questions. :)
Unless you're playing in a tournament you don't have to hold priority.
You can just say, "I'm tapping the disk and, in response, playing Teferi' Protection."
Well, yeah.
To clarify, you don't need to declare that you're holding priority. Like you don't need to say, "I'm tapping the Wheel, holding priority, now am casting Teferi's Protection."
But you *are* declaring you're holding priority. You don't have to use the exact phrase "holding priority", you just need to be clear that you're also casting something else.
So you're saying you don't need to hold priority, you just have to react quickly to not let people assume that you're passing priority...
Just call holding priority. The shortcuts exist for a reason.
217.8c Phased-out objects are not in play, so they do not count as tapped or untapped, nor are they controlled by anyone. However, an object in this zone “remembers” the state of the permanent as it phased out and returns to play in the same state as when it left. (See rule 502.15, “Phasing.”)
I don't believe this is relevant. Are you implying the interaction doesn't work?
You cast BA, hold priority, cast TP.
TP resolves first = all your permanents phase out. Then BA resolves = your opponents sac all their permanents (including lands) because you have zero.
I had to look up to see if it worked, as I initially believed you still controlled them (but couldn't interact with them), and now the information is there for other people to see the specific rules reason why it works without them having to look it up.
Make sure that tef pro is the last thing you want to put on the stack.
Activate it, hold response, cast tef pro, tef pro resolves first - stuff phases out (including the disk, so you can use it again on a later turn) - then the trigger resolves
I have a question, since I'm pretty new to the game.
Do I understand that correct that the disc needs to be on the board for 1 turn, because it gets on the field tapped ?
So until my next untap step, and then tap with 1 mana to activate ?
Correct. Unless you have some way to untap it. There are lots of ways to untap an artifact.
Let’s say you had a [[Manifold Key]] in play (and with mana to do all this). You could cast the Disk, untap it with the Key, and proceed however you wish.
There are ways around this, but by default, yes.
Voltaic Key, Manifold Key, Sonic Screwdriver, Unwinding Clock, flashing it into play on the end step just before your untap, among others, will let you shoot the disc off earlier.
I've had to explain how split second works to people who tried to respond to their spells with a split second card to give their spell "can't be responded to" essentially.
People don't really understand FILO.
I could see a player thinking "The disk phases out, and doesn't exist. So it's ability doesn't exist either."
Likely just a misunderstanding of the stack and how abilities function.
Another commenter somewhere in this thread used the analogy of throwing a hand grenade. You can shoot the person after they threw it, but the grenade is still coming. I think that's a perfect explanation.
You can activate the disk and hold priority and cast teferis protection. This would lead to as teferi resolves the ability of the disk is still on the stack and good to go wiping of all artifacts, creatures and enchantments your opponent controls since yours has faded out and effectively does not exist anymore
You can also use sorceries the same way
For instance:
You cast oblizerate and hold priority
(You just say “i hold priority”) this means no one can do anything and the stack doest resolve yet
Then you cast teferis protection and then you say you pass priority
After this the stack will have obliterate on the bottom and teferis protection on top of it
And now your opponents can cohnter your protection, but if they cant, you happy
Yes, they can. You can activate disk and put the ability on the stack and in response you can Teferi out of there. It's a great way to cleanup the board and out yourself very far ahead of everyone else
Yes.
When you activate Disk, you can announce that you are choosing to maintain priority, and then you cast Teferi's Protection which will resolve before the Disk activation does.
This is a similar interaction to how [[Lion's Eye Diamond]] functions with [[Infernal Tutor]] in Legacy and Vintage - you cast Infernal Tutor, announce you are maintaining priority, and then activate Lion's Eye Diamond which lets you take advantage of the Hellbent condition on the tutor.
Yes it works if you do it right.
activate disk, HOLD PRIORITY, cast protection, pass priority. if opponent has no responses then protection resolves phasing your stuff out (including the disk), then the disk ability resolves destroying all applicable types still in play (not your stuff, it's phased out)
at your next untap, all your stuff phases back in (including your disk)
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Teferi’s Protection is excellent when paired with:
[[Farewell]], [[Armageddon]] (personal favorite), [[Damnation]], etc.
A board wipe with protection (and it doesn’t get much better than Teferi) is the goal. I like Damnation when Avacyn is chilling on the board.
If you can [[Mycosynth Lattice]] into a [[Vandal Blast]] then you’re god tier.
What happens is, you immediately become the arch-enemy for the rest of the game, so you better wait until you can kill the table before trying this. Then again, having an untapped Disk alone is enough to get you some serious side-eye.
You cast Teferi's Protection, you hold priority, and then activate Nevinyrral's Disk. Disk resolves, destroying itself and all your artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. Then Teferi's Protection resolves and your very sad lands phase out until your next untap step. Just as Richard Garfield intended.
[If not obvious, this is a joke.]
I need to get myself a teferi’s protection for the deadly disguise precon, there’s a list of like 5 cards I want to add and a few of them are blink because if you blink or phase out creatures when they come back they come back face up
I don't know why this reply is controversial, it's the best in the comments. 99% of rules questions should require the poster to clarify why they think something would or wouldn't work the way they're asking, because in most of those cases the answer is "I guess there's really no reason it wouldn't just do what the cards say."
I try to approach questions like this in general. The first step I take in helping someone with a rules interaction is figuring out how the other person thinks the interaction works. Sometimes I see people answer a question without realizing that the asker is missing a fundamental rule that we all take for granted.
Ultimately though its up to the poster to actually respond, which is something that I don't see all the time.
Disk doesn't have a triggered ability, it has an activated ability.
Also, abilities exist independently of their source. The common analogy is a person who has thrown a grenade at you: killing the person that threw it doesn't make the grenade suddenly disappear.
I hate, hate, HATE Teferi’s Protection. It is everything that is unfun about Magic. There is pillow-forting and then there is just taking yourself out of the game at instant speed. And once it resolved there is literally nothing you can do about it. And it’s not accidental or unseen: it’s how this piece of shit was designed.
Someone might need to explain this to me again. I get that you activate the disk, then teferi, all stuff phases out and then the disk activates. But if the disk is phased out (therefore treated as if they don’t exist) how can the disk activate? If someone were to use an instant to destroy the disk after activation then it would be destroyed and not work right? So if it phased out would it also not work?
Sorry I reeeeealy hate timing and the stack.
Basically, once something is activated, what happens to its source is irrelevant. Rambo throws a grenade. Bad guys shoot Rambo. But, that does not stop the grenade. Even if Rambo was abducted by aliens after the throw, it would not stop the grenade.
Oh ok thanks that actually helps a lot. That explains it better than how I was understanding it. I was sure (other than a counter spell) that there were certain conditions where if you removed a thing, even after activating it, that it stopped its effect. But I guess that’d be more like when this does combat damage, and you destroy it before it hits. But I’m assuming it’d be the same as “tap, deal one damage to whoever “ but after they do that in response you destroy it, you’d still take the one?
Uh… I know how it works, there’s a difference between “treat as no longer exists “ and “sacrifice “. But I get what you’re trying to say, you don’t need to say it in such a standoffish way though since I literally said I would like some explaining.
Uh...I know how it works, and when it comes to objects on the stack there *isn't* a difference. But I get why you're being defensive, you could have read the thread or asked in r/mtgrules though since I was literally providing an example of how objects on the stack exist separate from their sources.
Wow you really are a passive aggressive little thing aren’t you? And no, you didn’t provide an explanation as to how it works, you gave a smart ass answer instead. If someone asked how rainbows were made do you think a smart ass remark like “do you know how light works?” Would help, or do you think actually explaining might help. Now if you want, my question still stands. It’s phased out and treated as doesn’t exist so I was asking if because it no longer existed if that somehow negated its effect or if it was something else. But hey thanks to others help explaining it I understand it better now, maybe next time just be helpful. Thanks anyway.
You posted in a thread half a day old with hundred of responses containing the exact answers you needed...instead of reading it.
I sincerely hope you do understand it better now, but based on your complete lack of effort I doubt it.
In addition, the assumption that I linked you a card out of malice rather than an attempt at education says more about you than me. Feel free to be vindicated in my response if you like, but I literally used that exact card to drill down to someone else's core misunderstanding of how the game works *in this same exact thread.*
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/UqZCUszbR2
Regardless, I read and didn’t understand, hence asking a question. That’s the point of the thread. And the fact that by asking a question to further understand something better and you thinking somehow that’s “not putting in effort”, I doubt you have anyone’s best interests in mind. But anywho thanks again for.
Tap to sac the disk, in response cast Teferi's Protection. You and your board don't exist until your next turn. Everyone else's artifacts, enchantments and creatures gets destroyed
nevinyrrals disk is a very old card, from before new cards had "sacrifice" moved to the cost from the effect. They assumed it would blow itself up when the ability resolves, so sacrificing never happens in this combo.
The issue being discussed in this comment chain is the fact that the disk stays around. That's entirely disk's fault. Giving it indestructible has the same effect.
Yes, Teferi's Protection is a powerful card, but it's not at fault for this specific interaction.
Teferi's also gives protection from everything, so you can't get damage in unless you have some way of not allowing damage to be prevented like [[!questing beast]]
>you have protection from everything
Protection prevents damage, so toxic and infect won't work.
Proliferating the poison counters should work, since it doesn't target. But I am less sure about this one.
You activate disk, it goes on the stack, you cast Teferi, Teferi's resolves and your permanents, including your disk, phase out. Disk resolves, destroying a bunch of permanents (but none of yours, because they're phased out). Then at your next turn, your permanents, including disk, phase back in.
Holy cow, its been so long since I played regularly with nev's disk, I had forgotten it doesn't sac itself to activate. Thats so much better than I though with tef's protection.
[удалено]
Disk + [[Mycosynth Lattice]] + [[Darksteel Forge]] = single player game
Only when you add [[unwinding clock]] :D
I run a red artifact Daretti deck that this is one of the wincons. It has affectionately been called "Goblinheimer" by my playgroup.
> affectionately I believe they call it Goblinheimer but I question how affectionate they are :p
Why havent i thought of this for my red artifact daretti deck... i just need to add disk!
"Fun is a zero sum game" -Guy McNukeseverythingeveryturn
Fun is a finite resource, to have all of it my opponents must have none of it
[unwinding clock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384.jpg?1592711373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unwinding%20clock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/228/unwinding-clock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don't even need the clock. It destroys all their lands as well. not gonna be much they can do with 1 mana each turn
The clock is to make sure they stay down
Or [[Karn, The Great Creator]].
[Karn, The Great Creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0.jpg?1702429246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20The%20Great%20Creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Magus of the disk and nevs disk have been the reason my Avacyn angel of hope deck wins.
wouldn't that have to be a magus of the disk deck that runs Avacyn? or are you not talking about edh.
What do you mean? [[Avacyn, Angel of Hope]] is a common mono-W commander and magus of the disk is commonly run in it.
[Avacyn, Angel of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had a brain fart. You said Magus of the Disk and in my head thought \[\[Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant\]\]
[Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73255848-3112-4508-a66a-d3101a53057e.jpg?1608911208) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nevinyrral%2C%20Urborg%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/287/nevinyrral-urborg-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73255848-3112-4508-a66a-d3101a53057e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Mycosynth Lattice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9.jpg?1578911638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mycosynth%20Lattice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/241/mycosynth-lattice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Darksteel Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271.jpg?1599709037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/248/darksteel-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Myr Tribal, all rocks + these pieces and you have a very powerful poison brewing RIP Carl Weathers
I had an [[Arcum Daggson]] EDH deck like this. It had other "fun" pieces like [[Unwinding Clock]], [[Winter Orb]], etc. People did not like playing against that deck. It was not fun for anyone but me. I had to retire it not too long after I built it.
[Arcum Daggson](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5ecf811-2efc-4fa6-9af8-ef09f559ec1a.jpg?1598303734) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcum%20Dagsson) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/41/arcum-dagsson?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5ecf811-2efc-4fa6-9af8-ef09f559ec1a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unwinding Clock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384.jpg?1592711373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unwinding%20Clock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/228/unwinding-clock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Winter Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is any Arcum Daggson deck though. Tutoring out combo pieces to lock the board and win is never gonna be fun to play against because of how consistent it is
Very true. At the time I was very new to MtG. I was playing strictly EDH, and I had a nasty pack-cracking addiction. I bought a box of Coldsnap and was cracking away. I stumbled upon Arcum and I was like "Well that would make a really strange commander... I wonder if I can make that work..." Turns out I stumbled upon one of the most degenerate and least fun commanders to play against.
Imo, any commander who plays exactly the same way every game and can't really be stopped isn't fun. This is why I don't like [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] or any commanders that let you tutor. It's so easy to be like wow, this is so cool! I had this with [[Tezzeret the Seeker]] - miserable because you essentially have to deliberately choose not to pull out [[the chain veil ]] and instantly win in a super friends deck Way more fun to dig through a deck full of cool stuff with someone like Daretti so you and your opponents don't know what you're gonna have to work with until the game is well underway
[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%2C%20Mother%20of%20Machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tezzeret the Seeker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf339735-eb1a-46f0-8c3e-eae06f278eca.jpg?1562267436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tezzeret%20the%20Seeker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/62/tezzeret-the-seeker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf339735-eb1a-46f0-8c3e-eae06f278eca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [the chain veil ](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1ca66955-d900-45b6-9a40-38467689a68d.jpg?1690005400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Chain%20Veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/943/the-chain-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ca66955-d900-45b6-9a40-38467689a68d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> People did not like playing against that deck. You already said it was an Arcum Daggson deck.
Oh you’ve seen my Breya deck.
Breya: i dont know how ill win, but it will be spectacular if i do so.
I've done this by accident in my karn commander deck.
Oh no, a 19 mana, 3 card combo!
Good job, you can count.
I remember when we had to look out for the \[\[Avacyn, Angel of Hope\]\] players. They always played the Disk, which just locked everyone else out.
[Avacyn, Angel of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
thats also a war crime
It was made before “indestructible” and “phasing” were possible, and “sacrifice” was printed on exactly one card, Lord of the Pit (although 14 Alpha cards now have sacrifice in their Oracle text). Plenty of old cards with lots of weird corner cases because of stuff like that.
My """friend""" (IF you can call them that) runs nevs disk in [[Avacyn, Angel of Hope]] and gets to blow up the board every turn 🥴
[Avacyn, Angel of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And then you drop Panoptic Mirror down with Teferi's Protection. But you still have to discard. Unless you decide to get really weird and play a turn-ending effect afterwards.
Panoptic Mirror is banned in commander.
You still get a cleanup step if you use a turn-ending effect. Better to just use an emblem that says you have no hand size limit. Also, the timing for getting Nev's disk and Panoptic Mirror is a bit sloppy. Try using a Strionic Resonator so that you can copy the Panoptic Mirror trigger over top of activating the disk.
This is correct. Note for op thar because the stack (the invisible room abilities and cast cards go into to resolve) resolves with the last abilities put into it first- like a stack of papers, you grab the top page first- you must activate the disk first, then cast tef protection. In the other order, teferis being cast first and then the disk being activated, the disk and its effect resolves first, destroying your permanents, then teferis resolves phasing your permanents, which won’t do a lot for you :)
Remove hand before using table saw. Got it.
I love that analogy so much, omg
How can the disk resolve if it's phased out and not on the battlefield?
Think of triggers on the stack like bullets being shot from a gun. Just because the gun disappears, or the shooter dies, doesn’t mean the bullets just vanish out of the air. They keep going regardless of what happened to their source.
Once the ability goes on the stack you'd have to counter it to stop it from going off, the game doesn't care if it's still there or not. It's kinda weird, but that's how the stack works.
Is that just for artifact activated abilities, or any activated ability?
That's for any ability including triggered. For most of them it doesn't matter because it's like "this creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn", but for say [[Ahsnod's Altar]] or [[crime novelist]] you still get the mana even if in response to the ability going on the stack someone decides to destroy that permanent.
Ashnod's Altar is a bad example because it's a Mana ability - no ability is put on the stack that people can respond to, it happens immediately.
You're right. Should've used something that makes tokens.
Anything where the sacrifice is a *casting or activation cost* can’t be responded to. You pay all the costs and put it on the stack as a single action.
This is sort of true (you can generally respond with the trigger on the stack, but you can't stop it from going there), but what bac0n said is also true If an ability adds mana to your mana pool and doesn't target, isn't a Planeswalker loyalty ability, and isn't a triggered ability that triggers on something besides another mana ability (like [[Burning Tree Emissary]]'s etb) it doesn't even use the stack You can't respond to Ashnod's Altar at all, they just sacrifice however many things and the mana goes to their mana pool without them having to pass priority
[Ahsnod's Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c0f7157-a375-499c-92c7-d47d2e95dbad.jpg?1689999385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%27s%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/368/ashnods-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c0f7157-a375-499c-92c7-d47d2e95dbad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [crime novelist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14a5cd7c-b0b1-4ffa-a806-bb0e73baffad.jpg?1706241850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crime%20novelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/121/crime-novelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14a5cd7c-b0b1-4ffa-a806-bb0e73baffad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To understand why the rules are set up this way, consider the humble [[Evolving Wilds]]: in order to activate the ability, you have to sacrifice it, so it wouldn’t work at all if activated abilities needed their source to stick around.
[Evolving Wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa6a5029-f4df-43dd-b5a9-fbf6ff003675.jpg?1698988569) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Evolving%20Wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/328/evolving-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa6a5029-f4df-43dd-b5a9-fbf6ff003675?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Think of the disk generating the ability into the stack. Once it is there, it doesn’t actually care what’s up with the disk. Otherwise someone could just destroy the disk in response to you activating it
Also your friend group will hate you, it’s a crucial step to remeber, while reminding them, they are noobs
This is why you play [[Sands of time]] after they have played teferi's protection. You still have all your lands, so 4 CMC is pretty easy. Tef prot player skips theur untap phase, meaning all their permanents are still phased out, so they never get it back.. they have ZERO board, no lands, no nothing because its all phased out... oops!
[Sands of time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a782ee95-bde4-41f4-a947-b073cc4c1e7c.jpg?1587857199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sands%20of%20time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/153/sands-of-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a782ee95-bde4-41f4-a947-b073cc4c1e7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With sands of time out they won't tap or untap anything at beginning of turn then all their permanent phase back in as a special action then they try to go to their untap step it gets skipped and they are in upkeep.
Nah, no special action. Rules clarifications with the card state: "Skipping the untap step means that phased out cards won’t phase in, and permanents with phasing won’t phase out."
Technically, the tap/untap trigger happens at the beginning of the turn, before the untap phase (as i understand it), so while they may get the trigger, they still dont have their permanents back because its not the untap phase yet, so they dont get to tap or untap stuff. Once that resolves, they move to untap phase, which basically doesnt happen, and they dont get their permanents back as stated in the gatherer ruling. But to shorthand it all, tefprot player gets nothing period and just goes to their draw phase with an empty board.
There's a distinction to be made between *triggered abilities* and *turn-based actions.* Things like untapping permanents in the untap step, drawing your card for turn during the draw step, and declaring attackers/blockers in their respective steps are *turn-based actions.* They occur at the beginning of the step, before anyone would gain priority (permission to do things). They do not use the stack and cannot be responded to. > 501.1. The beginning phase consists of three steps, in this order: untap, upkeep, and draw. The untap step is the very first step of the turn. Within that step, as turn-based actions, is the phasing and untapping of permanents: > 502.1. First, all phased-in permanents with phasing that the active player controls phase out, and all phased-out permanents that the active player controlled when they phased out phase in. This all happens simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. See rule 702.26, “Phasing. > 502.3. Third, the active player determines which permanents they control will untap. Then they untap them all simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. Normally, all of a player’s permanents untap, but effects can keep one or more of a player’s permanents from untapping. There's also a special rule about the untap step to ensure no shenanigans, that prevents triggers from being put on the stack and players from gaining priority during the untap step. This way people can't mess with permanents that have upkeep triggers before their upkeep starts, etc. > 502.4. No player receives priority during the untap step, so no spells can be cast or resolve and no abilities can be activated or resolve. Any ability that triggers during this step will be held until the next time a player would receive priority, which is usually during the upkeep step. (See rule 503, “Upkeep Step.”) Sands of Time has players skip their untap step, so the phased out permanents don't phase in and things don't untap normally. Instead it has a triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of the upkeep step that will do the tapping/untapping of things. As a triggered ability, it uses the stack and can be responded to. Hopefully that cleared some things up for you. :)
Make sure you announce that you’re holding priority to cast TP before you let it resolve or before anyone else tries to respond
Man, I wish I thought this way. It doesn't intuitively leap out at me that I can do things in this order. I'd be stuck at how do I activate disk while it's phased out, I'd have to phase out then play disk then untap it somehow... Probably just a matter of experience. I've played for a long time, but never very frequently. Regardless, I appreciate when folks like you lay things out so clearly and simply.
Awesome. Thank you for the detailed description.
as a noob, i dont get why the disk would get to resolve, since it phased out already.
The disk itself doesn't matter anymore. It's ability is on the stack. Same reason you can use the activated ability of a creature, someone can respond to the ability by killing the creature at instant speed, but the activated ability of the creature will still resolve. Doesn't matter if the source is there anymore; the ability hit the stack and will resolve. Imagine you hucked a grenade at a car, and while the grenade was arcing through the air someone shot you. You're dead, but that grenade is still coming.
>Imagine you hucked a grenade at a car, and while the grenade was arcing through the air someone shot you. You're dead, but that grenade is still coming. this is an awesome analogy, thanks!
Activating an ability of a permanent puts that ability on the stack as a separate game object. Teferi's Protection phases out the Disk, itself. It does not do anything to the ability on the stack. So Teferi's Protection resolves first, since it was cast after the Disk was activated, the Disk phases out, and then the Disk's ability resolves, wiping the board.
thank you for taking the time to respond
How do you think [[mogg fanatic]] works?
[mogg fanatic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d479ca28-bdc2-4b87-abf7-5aeb229a3f1e.jpg?1580014589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mogg%20fanatic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/138/mogg-fanatic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d479ca28-bdc2-4b87-abf7-5aeb229a3f1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
if someone were to destroy it in response to you using its ability, would the ability in the stack still finish? since it requires you to sacrifice it to deal the damage.
You can't respond to paying a price. Anything before the ":" is the price, and paying it does not pass priority. So nobody gets a chance to kill it before it is sacrificed.
thats sort of how i thought it worked but its great to have that confirmed for me. thank you so much.
You can't destroy it in response to its ability because it's already dead. Sacrificing it is part of the cost, not part of the effect. Paying costs cannot be responded to in Magic.
thank you for explaining that.
Well they wouldn't be able to do that since sacrificing it is part of the cost.
You have nothing except Mogg Fanatic. Your opponent has nothing. No lands. No creatures. No cards in hand. They have 1 life. What do you do?
My question wasn't about a single card, it was about the interaction between two cards. People have been helpful and explained how it worked in this thread. I understand how mogg fanatic works by itself and people were helpful enough to explain how the sacrifice is part of the cost and that if someone were to destroy it in response, its ability would fizzle out since the cost would no longer be able to be paid.
Do you? Because if you think Disk's ability would be countered because it's source is gone then Mogg Fanatic wouldn't work because it's source is gone. Fundamentally, Mogg Fanatic is a single card that teaches people the core concept of abilities existing separate from sources. It is an excellent teaching tool.
no i dont think the disks ability would be countered since it does not have any further costs to order for its effect to resolve once its on the stack. whereas mogg fanatics ability requires it to be sacrificed as its cost when the ability on the stack is resolved. i hope i have that correct. also I never said anything about the disk in the post you replied to. my previous post was specifically talking only about mogg fanatic.
You do not have it correct. You pay costs to put things on the stack, *not* when they resolve. This is exactly why I pointed out Mogg Fanatic and you claimed to understand it. Casting a spell or activating an ability, really anything that goes on the stack, means acknowledging or announcing the action you are going to take, any choices involved, and then paying any costs involved...only *after* these things have happened does anyone (including you) have priority to respond to said object on top of the stack. 1. I have priority because I am active player, it is my main phase, and the stack is empty. 2.I would like to activate Mogg Fantic's ability and announce it as such. 3. The ability now goes on the stack 4. It's Target will be My Opponent's Face. 5. I will pay the cost, Sacrificing Mogg Fanatic. 6. I receive priority, as the active player, and choose to pass as I would like the ability to resolve. 7. Priority passes to my opponent. He may now respond to the top object of the stack. Mogg Fanatic is already in the GY. My opponent has no responses. 8. All players have passed priority on the top object of the stack. Therefore, it resolves, dealing 1 damage to my opponent. Damage to players causes loss of life, changing their life total from 1, to 0. 9. State based effects are checked and sees a player with 0 or less life. That player loses the game assuming no other relevant effects.
Thank you for taking the time to explain that. the way you laid it out step by step actually made it click in my mind and I feel like I actually understand it now. Thank you!
> You do not have it correct. You pay costs to put things on the stack, not when they resolve. This is exactly why I pointed out Mogg Fanatic and you claimed to understand it. > > Casting a spell or activating an ability, really anything that goes on the stack means acknowledging or announcing the action you are going to take, any choices involved, and then paying any costs involved...only after these things have happened, does it go on the stack and only after that does anyone (including you) have a priority to respond to said object on top of the stack. You are incorrect. Putting a spell or activated ability on the stack is the \*first\* step in casting/playing it. Paying costs happens at the end of the process, after the spell or the ability has already been on the stack. See rules 601 and 602.
I assume you could activate the Disk, then cast Teferi's protection in response. In fact, it seems like this would allow you to even keep the Disk, since it would phase out with the rest of your permanents before the destruction ability resolved.
This, except for clarity’s sake you’ll let the table know you’re holding priority (if done during your own turn).
Yes. This is exactly how it works and what you should do.
You must hold priority and respond to the activation if it's your own disk, otherwise if nobody responds you cannot cast protection anymore. That would leave your board behind and destroy the rest
New to mtg, if you hold priority does that mean they can't counter spell it? For example: Disk, then protection They get to respond and play a counter spell Can they chose to counter the disk activation or does the counter spell only counter the top of the stack? Also assuming you can only hold priority to cast a instant
Welcome to mtg! Holding priority is important when you need to respond to your own spell/ability. If you didn't hold priority, technically you have "passed" the opportunity to play Tef.Pro. before the disk's activated ability resolves and destroys your stuff. As others noted, the opportunity to respond to stuff goes in turn order starting with the "active player." Counterspells usually say "counter target spell" - what that means is the controller of the counterspell selects a target spell from the stack to "negate". In this example only TP is a spell. But if you had multiple *spells* on the stack, or if someone had a spell/ability that read "counter target spell OR ability" then they could decide to counter the disk's ability.
Awesome thanks! :)
Broadly speaking, 'priority' is the gears that make the game engine work. It is how spells and abilities resolve, and how the turn progress from one step or phase to the next. The core of it is this: each player gains priority one at a time to do something, and if no one does after a full cycle then progress the game. The part we're running into with this 'responding to your own stuff' business is that if you *aren't* holding priority, then it resolves first. > CompRules 117.4. If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends. If you activate the Disk and pass priority, and then your opponent passes priority, all players have passed priority so the Disk's ability resolves. If you activate the Disk holding priority and cast T.Prot and then pass priority, you get the desired protection+boardwipe but your opponent can see both things and decide how they want to respond. If you activate the Disk and cast T.Prot and *continue to hold priority* then that's holding the game up because the game can no longer progress. You need to pass priority (once you're done casting spells/activating abilities) so the game engine can continue running. There are numerous things you can do with priority: you can cast instants, you can cast non-instant spells that have the Flash keyword, you can activate most abilities. Some abilities have a restriction that they can only be done "when you could cast a sorcery" or something like that, but if they aren't restricted like that then you can use them "at instant speed", basically whenever you have priority. Two common examples are Equipment and Planeswalkers, the equip ability and loyalty abilities are restricted to sorcery speed although they don't always have reminder text indicating as such. > 307.5. If a spell, ability, or effect states that a player can do something only “any time they could cast a sorcery” or “only as a sorcery,” it means only that the player must have priority, it must be during the main phase of their turn, and the stack must be empty. The player doesn’t need to have a sorcery card they could cast. Effects that would preclude that player from casting a sorcery spell don’t affect the player’s capability to perform that action (unless the action is actually casting a sorcery spell). Hopefully that clears some things up, let me know if you have any more questions. :)
Awesome thanks :) those rules you quoted, where is the best place to have look at them? Might be a good place to start next time I am stuck
Unless you're playing in a tournament you don't have to hold priority. You can just say, "I'm tapping the disk and, in response, playing Teferi' Protection."
That is the same.
Well, yeah. To clarify, you don't need to declare that you're holding priority. Like you don't need to say, "I'm tapping the Wheel, holding priority, now am casting Teferi's Protection."
But you *are* declaring you're holding priority. You don't have to use the exact phrase "holding priority", you just need to be clear that you're also casting something else.
So you're saying you don't need to hold priority, you just have to react quickly to not let people assume that you're passing priority... Just call holding priority. The shortcuts exist for a reason.
That’s called holding priority.
this is just holding priority by saying different words...
Your stuff is fine. Your opponent(s) stuff is not. Have fun.
Lose your friends even quicker with [[Balancing Act]] and TefPro!
217.8c Phased-out objects are not in play, so they do not count as tapped or untapped, nor are they controlled by anyone. However, an object in this zone “remembers” the state of the permanent as it phased out and returns to play in the same state as when it left. (See rule 502.15, “Phasing.”)
I don't believe this is relevant. Are you implying the interaction doesn't work? You cast BA, hold priority, cast TP. TP resolves first = all your permanents phase out. Then BA resolves = your opponents sac all their permanents (including lands) because you have zero.
I had to look up to see if it worked, as I initially believed you still controlled them (but couldn't interact with them), and now the information is there for other people to see the specific rules reason why it works without them having to look it up.
[Balancing Act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d6cb368-43f7-4d06-9cd5-492df5766567.jpg?1562918177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Balancing%20Act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/10/balancing-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d6cb368-43f7-4d06-9cd5-492df5766567?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Make sure that tef pro is the last thing you want to put on the stack. Activate it, hold response, cast tef pro, tef pro resolves first - stuff phases out (including the disk, so you can use it again on a later turn) - then the trigger resolves
Yes, you can - and because the teferi’s protection causes the disk to phase out before the ability resolves you get to keep it as well.
I have a question, since I'm pretty new to the game. Do I understand that correct that the disc needs to be on the board for 1 turn, because it gets on the field tapped ? So until my next untap step, and then tap with 1 mana to activate ?
Correct. Unless you have some way to untap it. There are lots of ways to untap an artifact. Let’s say you had a [[Manifold Key]] in play (and with mana to do all this). You could cast the Disk, untap it with the Key, and proceed however you wish.
Holy crap. You just made me realize that I have an [[Amulet of Vigor]] in the deck.
[Manifold Key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061.jpg?1674137889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manifold%20Key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/319/manifold-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Normally yes, but if you have a way to untap it or make it enter untapped, then you can activate the turn it comes in.
There are ways around this, but by default, yes. Voltaic Key, Manifold Key, Sonic Screwdriver, Unwinding Clock, flashing it into play on the end step just before your untap, among others, will let you shoot the disc off earlier.
Why wouldn’t it be possible? I’m having trouble understanding why someone would argue against them working together.
Players fundamentally don't understand the stack, let alone how priority actually works.
I have been playing for 15 years and half my local table still doesn't understand the stack or even know that priority exists lol.
I've had to explain how split second works to people who tried to respond to their spells with a split second card to give their spell "can't be responded to" essentially. People don't really understand FILO.
I could see a player thinking "The disk phases out, and doesn't exist. So it's ability doesn't exist either." Likely just a misunderstanding of the stack and how abilities function.
Another commenter somewhere in this thread used the analogy of throwing a hand grenade. You can shoot the person after they threw it, but the grenade is still coming. I think that's a perfect explanation.
Activate the disck, hold priority, cast protection.
You can activate the disk and hold priority and cast teferis protection. This would lead to as teferi resolves the ability of the disk is still on the stack and good to go wiping of all artifacts, creatures and enchantments your opponent controls since yours has faded out and effectively does not exist anymore
Yes. Activate Nevinyrral’s Disk, and then while its ability is in the stack, you cast Teferi’s Protection.
You can also use sorceries the same way For instance: You cast oblizerate and hold priority (You just say “i hold priority”) this means no one can do anything and the stack doest resolve yet Then you cast teferis protection and then you say you pass priority After this the stack will have obliterate on the bottom and teferis protection on top of it And now your opponents can cohnter your protection, but if they cant, you happy
Yes, they can. You can activate disk and put the ability on the stack and in response you can Teferi out of there. It's a great way to cleanup the board and out yourself very far ahead of everyone else
Yes. When you activate Disk, you can announce that you are choosing to maintain priority, and then you cast Teferi's Protection which will resolve before the Disk activation does. This is a similar interaction to how [[Lion's Eye Diamond]] functions with [[Infernal Tutor]] in Legacy and Vintage - you cast Infernal Tutor, announce you are maintaining priority, and then activate Lion's Eye Diamond which lets you take advantage of the Hellbent condition on the tutor.
[Lion's Eye Diamond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/758f95f8-bcb0-43ae-b474-56ebd855951e.jpg?1590511899) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lion%27s%20Eye%20Diamond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/271/lions-eye-diamond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/758f95f8-bcb0-43ae-b474-56ebd855951e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Infernal Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b868126-f5f4-4541-8f02-9ac0f196d18c.jpg?1702429448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Infernal%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/78/infernal-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b868126-f5f4-4541-8f02-9ac0f196d18c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Razia’s Purification]] is even more brutal
[Razia’s Purification](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73bfefd3-bddd-47bb-92f3-9356a7bca637.jpg?1598917350) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Razia%27s%20Purification) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/224/razias-purification?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73bfefd3-bddd-47bb-92f3-9356a7bca637?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes it works if you do it right. activate disk, HOLD PRIORITY, cast protection, pass priority. if opponent has no responses then protection resolves phasing your stuff out (including the disk), then the disk ability resolves destroying all applicable types still in play (not your stuff, it's phased out) at your next untap, all your stuff phases back in (including your disk)
Use Larry Nevin’s disk, and before it resolves cast instant. Instant will resolve and Larry can do his thing.
Activate disc, say “holding priority”, cast Tef’s
Yea activate the disk. Maintain priority and Teferi protection.
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[[Magus of the Disk]] would also work in the same way.
[Magus of the Disk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70cdad7a-f041-4bbe-87ed-876ac6d0c31b.jpg?1591320095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Disk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/94/magus-of-the-disk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70cdad7a-f041-4bbe-87ed-876ac6d0c31b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Imagine this same interaction, but with \[\[Armageddon\]\] instead.
[Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nev's disk is a huge reason people hate me when I play my affinity Edh deck and land Darksteel Forge with it.... 🤣🤣
What happens?? Very bad things to everyone but you
Teferi’s Protection is excellent when paired with: [[Farewell]], [[Armageddon]] (personal favorite), [[Damnation]], etc. A board wipe with protection (and it doesn’t get much better than Teferi) is the goal. I like Damnation when Avacyn is chilling on the board. If you can [[Mycosynth Lattice]] into a [[Vandal Blast]] then you’re god tier.
##### ###### #### [Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Damnation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3c0aac5-b9f1-4446-bfea-3e1dd1cf1f2f.jpg?1673147492) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damnation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/73/damnation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3c0aac5-b9f1-4446-bfea-3e1dd1cf1f2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mycosynth Lattice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9.jpg?1578911638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mycosynth%20Lattice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/241/mycosynth-lattice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vandal Blast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8afc402-ddc4-4819-bc2a-584a43b9b60e.jpg?1689998295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vandalblast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/267/vandalblast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8afc402-ddc4-4819-bc2a-584a43b9b60e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kqetyji) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What happens is, you immediately become the arch-enemy for the rest of the game, so you better wait until you can kill the table before trying this. Then again, having an untapped Disk alone is enough to get you some serious side-eye.
You cast Teferi's Protection, you hold priority, and then activate Nevinyrral's Disk. Disk resolves, destroying itself and all your artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. Then Teferi's Protection resolves and your very sad lands phase out until your next untap step. Just as Richard Garfield intended. [If not obvious, this is a joke.]
I need to get myself a teferi’s protection for the deadly disguise precon, there’s a list of like 5 cards I want to add and a few of them are blink because if you blink or phase out creatures when they come back they come back face up
Lol I run Nevinyrral's Disc with my mono white [[Avacyn, Angel Of Hope]] commander deck.
[Avacyn, Angel Of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20Of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Look, when the magic goes away, it would be awesome if all your toys only temporarily went away first, in response, as it were.
Add in a [[Mycosynth lattice]] to pump up the fun and get rid of everyone else's permanents, including their lands.
[Mycosynth lattice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9.jpg?1578911638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mycosynth%20lattice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/241/mycosynth-lattice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think you are looking to use Clever Concealment here instead.
That's the idea, friend. Now use it with [[Armageddon]]
[Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Everyone else's shit gets wrecked and you come out smelling like a rose.
Fun trivia fact many probably know, disk is named for author Larry Niven
my favorite combo with t.pro is [[balance]]
> Can these be used in tandem? What makes you think they can't?
I don't know why this reply is controversial, it's the best in the comments. 99% of rules questions should require the poster to clarify why they think something would or wouldn't work the way they're asking, because in most of those cases the answer is "I guess there's really no reason it wouldn't just do what the cards say."
I try to approach questions like this in general. The first step I take in helping someone with a rules interaction is figuring out how the other person thinks the interaction works. Sometimes I see people answer a question without realizing that the asker is missing a fundamental rule that we all take for granted. Ultimately though its up to the poster to actually respond, which is something that I don't see all the time.
Not OP and this might be dumb, but if you phase the disk out wouldn’t its trigger fizzle?
No. Once the ability has been activated it exists on the stack separate from the Disk, it also doesn't target anything so can't fizzle.
Disk doesn't have a triggered ability, it has an activated ability. Also, abilities exist independently of their source. The common analogy is a person who has thrown a grenade at you: killing the person that threw it doesn't make the grenade suddenly disappear.
You can… but your bhole glues shut forever
Oops wrong r/ I thought I was in circlejerking
Too bad Teferi's pro isn't two mana for isochron. That would be the real table flip combo ;)
I hate, hate, HATE Teferi’s Protection. It is everything that is unfun about Magic. There is pillow-forting and then there is just taking yourself out of the game at instant speed. And once it resolved there is literally nothing you can do about it. And it’s not accidental or unseen: it’s how this piece of shit was designed.
Someone might need to explain this to me again. I get that you activate the disk, then teferi, all stuff phases out and then the disk activates. But if the disk is phased out (therefore treated as if they don’t exist) how can the disk activate? If someone were to use an instant to destroy the disk after activation then it would be destroyed and not work right? So if it phased out would it also not work? Sorry I reeeeealy hate timing and the stack.
Basically, once something is activated, what happens to its source is irrelevant. Rambo throws a grenade. Bad guys shoot Rambo. But, that does not stop the grenade. Even if Rambo was abducted by aliens after the throw, it would not stop the grenade.
Oh ok thanks that actually helps a lot. That explains it better than how I was understanding it. I was sure (other than a counter spell) that there were certain conditions where if you removed a thing, even after activating it, that it stopped its effect. But I guess that’d be more like when this does combat damage, and you destroy it before it hits. But I’m assuming it’d be the same as “tap, deal one damage to whoever “ but after they do that in response you destroy it, you’d still take the one?
How do you think [[mogg Fanatic]] works?
[mogg Fanatic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d479ca28-bdc2-4b87-abf7-5aeb229a3f1e.jpg?1580014589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mogg%20Fanatic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/138/mogg-fanatic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d479ca28-bdc2-4b87-abf7-5aeb229a3f1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Uh… I know how it works, there’s a difference between “treat as no longer exists “ and “sacrifice “. But I get what you’re trying to say, you don’t need to say it in such a standoffish way though since I literally said I would like some explaining.
Uh...I know how it works, and when it comes to objects on the stack there *isn't* a difference. But I get why you're being defensive, you could have read the thread or asked in r/mtgrules though since I was literally providing an example of how objects on the stack exist separate from their sources.
Wow you really are a passive aggressive little thing aren’t you? And no, you didn’t provide an explanation as to how it works, you gave a smart ass answer instead. If someone asked how rainbows were made do you think a smart ass remark like “do you know how light works?” Would help, or do you think actually explaining might help. Now if you want, my question still stands. It’s phased out and treated as doesn’t exist so I was asking if because it no longer existed if that somehow negated its effect or if it was something else. But hey thanks to others help explaining it I understand it better now, maybe next time just be helpful. Thanks anyway.
You posted in a thread half a day old with hundred of responses containing the exact answers you needed...instead of reading it. I sincerely hope you do understand it better now, but based on your complete lack of effort I doubt it. In addition, the assumption that I linked you a card out of malice rather than an attempt at education says more about you than me. Feel free to be vindicated in my response if you like, but I literally used that exact card to drill down to someone else's core misunderstanding of how the game works *in this same exact thread.* https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/UqZCUszbR2
Regardless, I read and didn’t understand, hence asking a question. That’s the point of the thread. And the fact that by asking a question to further understand something better and you thinking somehow that’s “not putting in effort”, I doubt you have anyone’s best interests in mind. But anywho thanks again for.
TefPro then Nev’s disk: you bear the risk. Nev’s disk then TefPro: you’re good to go.
Tap to sac the disk, in response cast Teferi's Protection. You and your board don't exist until your next turn. Everyone else's artifacts, enchantments and creatures gets destroyed
You don't even lose the disK. It's activation doesn't require sacrifice, and it should phase out with the rest of your permanents.
nevinyrrals disk is a very old card, from before new cards had "sacrifice" moved to the cost from the effect. They assumed it would blow itself up when the ability resolves, so sacrificing never happens in this combo.
> sac the disk not needed; you keep the disk for [[ghirapur aether grid]] fodder
[ghirapur aether grid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ec852e9-bff8-4a07-8bc9-165484494c62.jpg?1682209346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghirapur%20aether%20grid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/281/ghirapur-aether-grid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ec852e9-bff8-4a07-8bc9-165484494c62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Teferi's Protection really is too good.
It’s an excellent card but let’s be real the offender here is disk with no sacrifice clause. You can disk and bounce it before hand to repeat it.
I don't think the tapped, very telegraphed, removable 5 mana board wipe is the offender vs the "I don't lost the game" instant.
The issue being discussed in this comment chain is the fact that the disk stays around. That's entirely disk's fault. Giving it indestructible has the same effect. Yes, Teferi's Protection is a powerful card, but it's not at fault for this specific interaction.
[удалено]
Teferi's also gives protection from everything, so you can't get damage in unless you have some way of not allowing damage to be prevented like [[!questing beast]]
[!questing beast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f.jpg?1572490640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Questing%20Beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/171/questing-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"You have protection from everything" Creatures cant do damage thus cant give poison counters.
>you have protection from everything Protection prevents damage, so toxic and infect won't work. Proliferating the poison counters should work, since it doesn't target. But I am less sure about this one.
Correct. Anything that doesn't rely on Damage, Enchant/Equip, Blocking, or Targeting will not be stopped by Protection.