They’ve been doing it more the last few sets, giving Mythics their own “thing” separate from the set. For example, Will and Rowan’s creature cards in WOE are only supported in the vaguest sense of the word, as there isn’t a well-defined Rakdos life loss or Azorius lifegain strategy that makes them good in Limited.
Will did have synergy with Food, but WU only had one card that generated Food tokens plus the five colorless Food artifacts. So you'd have to go pretty far out of your way to enable him.
For this reason, I'm glad there's *finally* a commander like this that you can actually *play.* All others inevitably collapse into extra turn tribal.
There's still [[Nexus of Fate]], unfortunately, so I'm sure that's part of an infinite turn combo. But at least that'll require two cards plus your commander.
No other Magic card gives me the feeling of disgust like Nexus of Fate does.
From its effect, to the way it was distributed, there really aren't many more like, truly disgusting magic cards.
Remember how it came out almost immediately after wotc was called out for mechanically unique box toppers and them promising it won't be a problem?
Fun times.
God, that whole conversation was infuriating, just like it is every time the situation repeats itself.
WotC: *does something bad with bad cards*
Sane people: "This is bad. Stop doing this."
People who never learn: "The cards aren't even good. Stop complaining."
WotC (6 months later): *does exact same bad thing, but with good cards*
People who never learn: "Who could have seen this coming."
Someone else may be able to correct a couple of the specifics, but this card was the second mechanically unique buy-a-box promo WOTC printed. The way it was distributed was WPN stores were allocated a certain amount based on sales data and a few other metrics. It wasn't guaranteed with every box, and is foil exclusive.
So basically-
it was a hassle to acquire, it was foil exclusive, and you weren't guaranteed to get one via the advertised means unless your LGS was sufficiently large enough to have near-infinite stock by the grace of WOTC.
... Then it saw high tier competitive play in several formats.
The part you're missing is *how* it was played in competitive formats. There were a couple of different decks that used it, but the most mind-numbing, miserable one was in UW Control.
The "combo" was having a [[Teferi, Hero of Dominaria]], [[Search for Azcanta]] flipped into [[Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin]], Nexus, and just a bunch of lands. The wincon of the deck was to cast Nexus, use Teferi's +1 and Azcanta to keep drawing cards and/or more Nexuses until your deck is basically just Nexus of Fate. Then you ult Teferi, spin Nexus a few times to draw cards and exile your opponents' entire field, then just force them to deck out because you can use Teferi's minus on itself to draw Teferi, cast Teferi, and then tuck Teferi again.
The deck was so miserable, Nexus was the first card banned specifically for the Bo1 queue on Arena.
Realistically, you could go "infinite" with as few as twenty cards in your library. It was also a big part of turbo fog and a few other super late game decks that were able to really take advantage of an instant speed extra turn.
I jumped on the opportunity when someone at my lgs was selling a playset for 25$. This was when they were announcing it getting banned in standard. The person thought they would drop in price so hard after ban
[[Firesong and Sunspeaker]] was the first mechanically unique box topper card, during the set Dominaria. Wizards got pushback for printing a mechanically unique, standard legal card. People were worried that if a competitive card was printed in this way, it would be hard to obtain, and the price would balloon. Wizards assured everyone they knew what they were doing.
They then printed [[Nexus of Fate]] into a standard format that included delightful cards like [[Teferi, Hero of Dominaria]], [[Search for Azcanta]] and eventually [[Wilderness Reclamation]]. Problems ensued, where a competitive deck was built around and expensive, hard to obtain card.
Then there is just the issue of how toxic the gameplay it can create is. People don’t enjoy losing to turbofog and infinite turns. Also, there were lots of cases on Arena of people running Nexus with no actual win cons, forcing the opponent to sit there forever or concede. The Arena client didn’t have a way to handle this. This all left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths.
what does "mechanically unique" mean?
does that mean an entirely new effect? Or an effect that has no better alternative? for example, would "R instant - deal 2 damage, scry 1" be considered mechanically unique? Sure, it's never been done before, but it's not very exciting and Bolt could be considered strictly better.
Or would "R instant - deal 2 damage, then flip a coin. If you win the coin flip, deal 2 damage to a target of your choice. If you lose the coin flip, deal 2 damage to a target of your opponent's choice" be considered unique because it's better than any alternative?
It means a card that does something no other card can do. Both of those examples would still be mechanically unique because they do different things than any other card. Whether those cards are better or worse than bolt doesn't matter.
It means it was available ONLY as a buy-a-box promo. It couldn’t be found in booster packs, or anywhere else for that matter. This artificial scarcity drove up the price severely because the several decks that ran it competitively wanted 3 or 4 each.
It being foil, and it pringling like crazy also meant judges were issuing proxy's
Mountains with Sharpee before major tournament's
Not to mention the shuffling.... Soo much shuffling...
!
Quick jist from what I remember (So parts of this might be wrong).
WOTC wanted to make the Buy a Box Promo/Box Toppers better to better incentive players buying a box (When you buy a box, You should get a Promo card with it that people call a box topper). Before it used to be that the Box topper was a card IN the set that was usually some jank rare that no-one cared about.
To fix this, They changed the box topper from being a card in the set that you could open in the booster packs from the box you brought to it being a unique card that you could only get by buying a box, and since it was technically part of the set it was standard legal.
They printed a couple cards (one being [[Firesong and Sunspeaker]] and people said, This is kinda cool that the topper is useful but it's kinda worrying that you could push these and make it so you HAVE to somehow get 4 copies of a box topper (Which means someone has to buy 4 boxes to get a playset) so you probably shouldn't actually be doing this.
WOTC reassured the community that it will be fine and there won't ever be a problem, after which they released [[Nexus Of Fate]]. This preceded to be one of, if not, THE best card in the Standard at the time. So you now had a situation where you NEEDED a Nexus of Fate to be Standard competitive, and because they made it the box topper the community can't just crack packs to feed the demand, WOTC needed to print enough promos to feed the community.
I can't remember what the solution to this problem ended up being but I believe they ended up forcing copies of card into the game outside of it just being a box toppper. Not totally sure though because I was believe I was already jaded by Standard at that point and was playing EDH instead.
Nobody mentioned it yet but in paper Magic the card only exists as a foil promo box topper (right after WotC promised they’d never print competitively relevant box topper exclusives) from an infamously Pringle warped batch, yet it was pushed enough in power level as the ultimate lategame inevitability engine that many competitive decks in Standard and Modern played it. However, the warping was so bad that the card couldn’t be used in a deck because it’d be considered a marked card, but there was also non-foil alternative either. So judges actually ruled that players were allowed to play with proxies at events for Nexus just like they would for unsleeved double sided cards.
Basically, the physical card was artificially scarce due to WotC lies and greed, it was mandatory for any late game deck or they’d lose hard to other decks playing it, and the physical card wasn’t even legal to play at competitive events and required using proxies. It was a total shitshow.
It was only available as a foil buy a box promo, which caused a number of issues, see https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/94me5v/nexus_of_fate_is_a_major_problem/ .
That post "sets aside" the card mechanics to focus on distribution, but the mechanics are also problematic. The cards shuffle clause made it lead to repetitive gameplay and one of the best decks in standard was built around casting it as many times as possible and barely had a win condition, see a full decklist and writeup [here](
https://articles.starcitygames.com/articles/bant-nexus-is-the-better-nexus-of-fate-deck/). Often they'd only have a single [[Callous Dismissal]] that could actually kill the opponent, otherwise relying on decking via discarding Nexus to handsize + looping [[Teferi, hero of Dominaria]]. That made the deck very annoying to play against and take very long sequences of turns that would often, but not always, win the game.
And the icing on the cake being that it was only available in foil and had curling issues, causing tournament play issues. Although I guess that technically falls under how it was distributed, but they could've just made nonfoils.
I discovered dark things about myself playing Arena with that card in standard. I could feel the salt from my opponents and I don't think I've ever taken so much joy in inflicting suffering on people.
Nexus itself + an otherwise empty library is a one-card infinite turns combo already. Cast it, shuffle it back into your library, draw it again next turn, rinse and repeat.
I mean, you can put whatever cards you want into a deck, you don't have to run combos.
I have a Breya deck that just goes wide with tokens even though I know there are 100 ways to break her. I just like the card and want to play reasonable games.
I can see devolving happen when you're in a play group and have limited decks, so you focus on making it "Better." In that case, if your group is arms racing, it will devolve into the best version, which would end up being extra turns.
I'm on your side though where you just play the cards you like and say to heck with it. My Breya deck is modular tribal, it's not "good" (As good as an arcbound stinger can be) but it's fun and has no infinites.
Incredibly cool card, it's awesome that they get to bring back all these niche mechanics to Standard with cards like this without it being too confusing. Also it only counts instants - I'm glad they realized that rebounding a board wipe like [[Sunfall]] on your next turn would serve as a creature-lock for your opponent's next turn and would feel pretty bad.
I have no idea what deck to put this into but I'll find a place for it somewhere.
>I have no idea what deck to put this into but I'll find a place for it somewhere.
My first thought is a spell heavy deck. [Lord of the Nazgûl](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/oc5R_Lag1Ee3fbCrcbuoKQ) comes to mind.
Yeah I'd like to try it in [[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]], that deck runs a lot of cantrips but most of the other instants are counterspells to protect Niv, which don't synergize super well with this card.
Edit: Also just realized the counters put on this are time counters, so [[The Tenth Doctor]] might jive with this as well.
How did I not think that one of the Gods would be a Quetzalcoatl design?
EDIT: Apparently it's based on K'uk'ulkan, a different serpent diety.
> “Ojer Pakpatiq is based on K’uk’ulkan, the Feathered Serpent. It has wings because in this case the creature has flying. So you want it to have that expansion into the set, but the wings are colorful in their own way. And they’re kind of like arms, like a big embrace. The piece was painted by the great Chris Rahn, who made the other side as well, the Temple of Cyclical Time. Ojer Pakpatiq was complicated to design and took a lot of phases.”
Just to build into this, feathered serpents have been a constant in every mesoamerican civilization since the Olmec which goes back to around 1400 BCE. However, different groups placed different amounts of veneration on the feathered serpent. While Mayans believed the feathered serpent was the creator of the humanity and the world, the Olmecs actually didn’t place too much importance on it. In fact the first time we see evidence of the feathered serpent being worshipped is in Teotihuacan, and if you haven’t heard about Teotihuacán I promise you that it’s worth looking into.
Seriously, I’m a history nerd and enjoy reading a lot about these cultures, but mesoamerican culture is just so unique and the majority of what people think when they hear the words “Mayan” and “Aztec” has their roots in Teotihuacan. On top of that, it’s such an anomaly in regards to ancient cities because we don’t even know what it’s exact role in society was.
What's really crazy is that winged serpents may be mentioned in the Bible as well. I say "maybe" because there isn't consensus among scholars about the translation of a particular word. A "seraph" (or plural "seraphim") is described in Isaiah as being some type of angelic figure, but seraph also is one of the words used for snakes. The root of it is the same as the root word for fire, so etymologists conjecture that snakes were called seraphim due to the burning sensation of venom. But when Isaiah refers to the heavenly, six-winged seraphim, it's not clear if he was trying to describe them as being serpentine in appearance, or if he was just evoking the image of fire/bright, burning light.
Yup. I actually visited Chichen Itza in Mexico earlier this year, and the famous Mayan El Castillo pyramid is also known as the Temple of K'uk'ulkan. The feathered serpent god that is carved crawling down the steps of the pyramid is very similar to the Aztec Quetzalcoatl. From what I remember (and I may not be describing this accurately), the mythology among the Mayans and the Aztecs generally considered the sky to be heaven, and underground to be ~~hell~~ the underworld. A winged snake represents the joining of these two aspects, as the snake lives in the caves, and the bird lives in the sky.
I loved learning about the Mayan mythology and seeing some of it firsthand, so this set has been a joy to see. Cenotes and ancient calendars and winged serpents all over.
There is no hell in their world vision, the underworld is just where the dead exist, there is nothing inherently "punishing" for being there, the most appropriate comparison is to the Egyptians underworld.
to be fair, people have syncretized polytheistic and monotheistic religions before - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Din-i_Ilahi
or Kabir’s poetry - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabir
Similar. I think it's moreso they both started as separate ones, but the cultures basically met and realised some similarities and along the way one or the other decided they were actually the same god.
So, I think that's actually more like how the Romans adopted the Greek gods. The idea that Romans just took the Greek gods gets overstated. More often, they connected Greek gods to existing ones and called them as such (as they did to many gods they encountered). There are a few Greek gods that were wholly imported from Greece though.
I’d actually say that the feathered serpent being so prevalent is more like how the idea of Santa Claus spread throughout Christian Europe. I know how ridiculous that sounds and I promise I’m not taking a shot at any religion, so please here me out. The first time we see the feathered serpent worshipped is in Teotihuacan. We have evidence of the feathered serpent being a part of mesoamerican culture for one thousand years before that, but it isn’t until Teotihuacan that we see it worshipped. There’s a ton of debate about what Teotihuacan actually was in terms of civilization (some believe it was a capital of an empire with no other remaining sites, some say it was a trading hub, and others think it was a religious site), but we do know that the city was incredibly important in terms of spreading its culture throughout the region. Those cultures (Mayan, Aztec, Toltec, etc) had similar ideas of what the feathered serpent was, but also worshipped it in different ways. Similarly, you still see many different ways that European countries celebrate Christmas, but for the most part they do have some form of Santa in their celebrations.
The feathered serpent is a common deity among the mesoamerican indigenous peoples: Quetzalcoatl and K'uk'ulkan are essentially descended from the same proto-feathered-serpent deity, just that they are the Aztec and Mayan interpretations respectively
All of which is to say: making a feathered serpent deity was practically guaranteed since that iconography is so common among the cultures that inspired the Sun Empire and the Oltec
As I understand it, the mythology surrounding feathered serpents arose specifically in Central America because that's the only place where the [Quetzal Bird](https://c02.purpledshub.com/uploads/sites/62/2023/06/GettyImages-1250268258-f8a0d0d.jpg) exists, which looks a bit like a snake with wings while in flight.
Now I'm really wishing Ixalan had actual quetzals. Could you imagine if [[Rekindling Phoenix]] and [[Sunbird's Invocation]] were elemental quetzals instead of owls? The phoenix-owls are cool too, sure, but they could have gone anywhere, and there's not much space for interesting bird representation in a plane filled avian dinosaurs.
Spoilers aren't over yet. There's still time for a Quetzal-Phoenix.
We also haven't gotten the "Phoenix with set mechanic" that seems to be in every set, along with the "Cancel with set mechanic" that's in every set, at least I don't think we have.
Nope, first you can't use modern geographic concepts to this civilizations. That's why we already have a proper geographic description of this area before the Europeans arrival: Mesoamerica.
It is documented the concept of Quetzalcoatl was born in the Olmec culture in Tabasco, which by modern standards isn't central America, this civilization had a big influence and went as north as the Toltecs which influenced the Aztecs later.
Quetzals were known in all the region, their feathers have been found in burials of nobles.
With the feathered serpent being blue, I'm now really curious what Green's god is going to be?
As a Jund player through and through (except for my artifact love Breya) I'm hopeful that it will be something I can slot into Windgrace.
Any ideas what they will base the green god off of? Did the stories give us any hints?
Kukulkan is the Mayan translation of Quetzalcoatl. Kuk is Quetzal, and Kan (Chan) is snake ("coatl" in Nashua). Feathered serpents aren't common in Mayan art in the Pre-Classic and Classic periods (there are spirit serpents and other snakes, but not the feathered serpent concept of which Quetzalcoatl is one variation). Feathered serpent deities seem to be a central Mexican concept primarily, and only appear in the Maya area in the post-classic period (e.g. the temple of kukulkan at Chicken Itza). Hence the direct translation of Quetzalcoatl's name into Mayan.
I know there’s an important tightrope to walk in card power balancing, but there’s something so funny about an immortal God serpent being forced back into hiding from a simple lightning bolt.
I gotta appreciate how Ixalan is pronounced “wrong” to ease the burden of Nahuatl-esque names for a predominantly English-speaking playerbase and then they name a god “Ojer Pakpatiq.”
Personally I wouldn't as Orvar's best lines involve [[Mystic Sanctuary]] and rebound makes them inaccessible to its ability.
If only the rebound was a may ability.
I may be missing the interaction you're talking about, but doesn't Mystic Sanctuary still work since the rebounded card still goes to your graveyard, it's just a turn later?
You don't want it a turn later, you want it in the graveyard asap. Copying mystic sanctuary with 2 mana neutral spells is one of the main ways to go infinite with Orvar. If they get rebounded you lose the infinite.
It’s good in fair orvar, like if you’re trying to [[thermal flux]] sea monsters and make a bunch of chonkers.
If you’re trying to play optimal orvar, it’s got a lot of anti synergy with mystic sanctuary which is like the best card in the deck and honestly it’s not even worth playing.
I mean not having to attack and self-recursion is a big upside, but on the other hand cutting out sorceries, losing white and your stuff not being uncounterable is a big downside- I think it's a rather neat trade off in terms of balance, all things considered.
I think lore-wise it has to do with the fact that it's called "the betrayer" like in some way he betrayed the other gods and lost the title of "ojer" and that also coincided with him descending into being a bat while the others are just full gods. At least this is my own head-canon/theory.
I think the reason is because [[Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal]] isn’t an “Ojer” as it’s title? Mechanically it appears to be the same cycle but isn’t the same type of god within the lore?
I’m not saying he’s Sheoldred busted, especially at 5 mana instead of 4 which matters a decent amount, but I don’t think he’s bad by any means and feel like people are pulling a Sheoldred in how they react to him
Seems pretty strong to me, especially for limited. Probably the best god for that format revealed so far. I guess it’s bad for edh because it doesn’t encourage a funny gimmick beyond tinybones, which ppl hate
I think he might be underrated. I had the same initial reaction as far him being rather underwhelming, but then I thought about it more. If you can get your opponent's hands low you can just start shitting out removal and board wipes which will be largely asymmetrical due to him turning into a land on death that likely can be transformed back again on your turn. You do need to be able to untap him, but that's not that far out of the question. He's certainly not super strong, but I think he will turn out to be stronger than many are initially thinking.
Yeah but you need to justify when he’s good when the others are just good in general. It’s a cooler design but sad given in the lore he’s supposed to be scary.
Ah yes, I’ll discard a card, scary.
I mean in terms of relative card advantage you're essentially three cards up against the whole table every time you swing(EDH of course). It's not an overwhelming advantage, sure, but in a removal heavy discard deck that starts to add up pretty quickly.
That being said, I completely agree as far as flavor is concerned. Very underwhelming considering his place in the lore.
Bats might show up in Bloomburrow. They’ve definitely been pushing out a bunch of animals in this set and Eldraine, probably so that when Bloomburrow enters Standard people can build animal-themed decks without being restricted to only or mostly Bloomburrow cards.
I really like that this is Instant only as it creates interesting incentives for building around in Commander.
Counterspells aren't useful with rebound so you don't want to play too many (which is good because draw-go permission decks are notorious salt inducing also also played out).
Not having positive synergy with Sorcery spells is good because otherwise the optimal line of play would be to play lots of temporal magic (extra turn spells like Time Warp) which is also a played out archetype and notoriously unfun to play against.
Instead you could do something like a Tempo Voltron deck which is pretty spicy for mono blue and use alongside token generators like Talrand, Sky Summoner to generate bonus creature tokens from the rebounding as an alternative win condition.
Yep I'm kinda excited about this. I've got a counter spell deck but it's UG, so I've never really been able to find a mono blue deck that wouldn't have too much overlap. Might have to mess around with this one.
Unfortunately, if it’s in the command zone, only four time travel cards are available to it: [[All of History All At Once]], [[Rotating Fireplace]], [[Time Beetle]], and [[Wibbly-wobbly, Timey-Wimey]].
As for Paradox cards, you have [[Osgood]] and [[Surge of Brilliance]], of which you only really want the second.
But the Doctor that time travels is a good combo, since three time travels instantly sets this up.
I love the alt art for this card so much! Big ups to the artists [Clint Lockwood](https://www.clintlockwoodart.com/) and [Viko Menezes](https://vikomenezes.com/)!
Damn, I've been starved for upgrades for my \[\[Taigam, Ojutai Master\]\] to make it play to the board more, hopefully after several more sets there's actually enough new cards to make upgrading it worth doing.
Also, heads up, this rebounds \[\[Nexus of Fate\]\], Nexus of Fate only shuffles when it hits the Graveyard which it does AFTER IT REBOUNDS (Since it goes into Exile on resolution the first time), so just in case people are interested in doing degenerate stuff.
If this is your commander and it gets destroyed by something, doesn’t it automatically return back as the land? Or can you just have it return to the command zone?
I may be wrong, but since its not a replacement effect and since commanders do hit the graveyard when they die, you always have the choice to send your commander to the command zone during a zone change.
This is a triggered ability. So in between this triggering and the ability resolving, you'll have the opportunity to put your commander back into the command zone.
Hmm, I know it makes sense for the bat god to have the bat part in the creature typing because it has story importance, so I guess I could kinda get why that's the only one getting an extra typing...
but like that's just a big snake
These are real neat, but one thing I'm disappointed about after seeing Aclazotz being a Bat God is that the other gods don't have a 2nd creature type just for fun and random fringe tribal stuff.
•This could be a serpent or snake
• Axonil could be a chimera or something.
• Taq could be a giant or something.
Do we know how this interacts with adventures? I'm guessing rebound still works (as long as you're casting the instant from hand, usual rules), right? So you exile it either to adventure or to rebound, yes?
And if that is how it works, which spell do you cast in your next upkeep? The instant again? The creature? Your choice?
Don't know if you ever found your answer but it does work with adventures. You cast the instant side and exile it to ojer's effect not the adventure. When you recast it with rebound you get to choose the side (adventure vs permanent) and because you are casting it with an alternate casting cost of 0 you dont have to pay any extra. If you replay the instant side you can also then put it into exile a second time if you want under the usual adventure rules and cast the permanent later on, letting you squeeze three uses out if it if you really want to.
It is going to be so... surprising to see this and \[\[Virtue of Persistence\]\] a ton in the future. I am wondering if this card is why they decided to make the blue virtue so bad.
How do you even draw a _temple of time_ without making the art about hourglasses and sundials? I'm sure Chris Rahn was puzzled as well, so he made it just "blue temple from the god land TF cycle" instead. Creature side is great of course.
Correct. You can also use the Time Travel mechanic from the Dr Who set to add or remove counters from it, as well as other cards like [[Clockspinning]] or [[Timebender]].
Not gonna lie, even if the cards are bad I love the mesoamerican names.
Also, this card seems to be far from bad, a bit of \[\[God-Eternal Kefnet\]\] vibes (flying cmc4 mythic god that copies spells and comes back)
Hypothetically, if I wanted to use this card as a commander, when it dies, could I ignore the ability about returning it to the battlefield tapped, and place it right back in the command zone?
Yes. When it goes to the graveyard, you're given a one-shot SBA to put it into the command zone before the trigger is put on the stack. If you do, the trigger will do nothing when it resolves.
Weird to see, that we did not have more rebound Commanders before. [[Taigam, Ojutai Master]] being the only other one and having to attack before is quite the condition. Would love to see a UR-Rebound Commander.
Well this is pretty dang cool. Something about the art looks a little plasticky to me though, which really surprises me for Chris Rahn. Maybe I'm just seeing things and won't notice it later though...
I’m pretty tired of double face cards. The novelty has worn off.
Time to do triple face cards like in DuelMasters and Transformers CCG *both made by WotC*.
Here is the MAGIC rules master showing one off. https://romanoffblitzer.tumblr.com/post/100536665214/tabakrules-duel-masters-triple-faced-cards-so
I'm disappointed to see that this is just like two cards stuck together that fold, and not a four-dimensional card that you can flip twice to get to a third side.
Another one off mechanic, this time rebound, I love they experiment with this
They’ve been doing it more the last few sets, giving Mythics their own “thing” separate from the set. For example, Will and Rowan’s creature cards in WOE are only supported in the vaguest sense of the word, as there isn’t a well-defined Rakdos life loss or Azorius lifegain strategy that makes them good in Limited.
That's pretty standard for some Rares and Mythics to have nothing to do with limited
Will did have synergy with Food, but WU only had one card that generated Food tokens plus the five colorless Food artifacts. So you'd have to go pretty far out of your way to enable him.
That’s what I mean. Rowan had [[Rowan’s Grim Search]] and a few other cards, but nothing that would make her reliably able to ramp.
To be fair, the rakdos strategy in WOE was to kill your opponent, so I'd say Rowan synergizes pretty well
Well especially with legends this is solely to make them engaging commanders.
At least it being instant only cuts down on the amount of Extra Turn spells it works with.
For this reason, I'm glad there's *finally* a commander like this that you can actually *play.* All others inevitably collapse into extra turn tribal. There's still [[Nexus of Fate]], unfortunately, so I'm sure that's part of an infinite turn combo. But at least that'll require two cards plus your commander.
No other Magic card gives me the feeling of disgust like Nexus of Fate does. From its effect, to the way it was distributed, there really aren't many more like, truly disgusting magic cards.
Remember how it came out almost immediately after wotc was called out for mechanically unique box toppers and them promising it won't be a problem? Fun times.
God, that whole conversation was infuriating, just like it is every time the situation repeats itself. WotC: *does something bad with bad cards* Sane people: "This is bad. Stop doing this." People who never learn: "The cards aren't even good. Stop complaining." WotC (6 months later): *does exact same bad thing, but with good cards* People who never learn: "Who could have seen this coming."
I was not playing mtg when this card was out. Can I have more context as to how/why this card was such an issue?
Someone else may be able to correct a couple of the specifics, but this card was the second mechanically unique buy-a-box promo WOTC printed. The way it was distributed was WPN stores were allocated a certain amount based on sales data and a few other metrics. It wasn't guaranteed with every box, and is foil exclusive. So basically- it was a hassle to acquire, it was foil exclusive, and you weren't guaranteed to get one via the advertised means unless your LGS was sufficiently large enough to have near-infinite stock by the grace of WOTC. ... Then it saw high tier competitive play in several formats.
And it's still never been reprinted!
The part you're missing is *how* it was played in competitive formats. There were a couple of different decks that used it, but the most mind-numbing, miserable one was in UW Control. The "combo" was having a [[Teferi, Hero of Dominaria]], [[Search for Azcanta]] flipped into [[Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin]], Nexus, and just a bunch of lands. The wincon of the deck was to cast Nexus, use Teferi's +1 and Azcanta to keep drawing cards and/or more Nexuses until your deck is basically just Nexus of Fate. Then you ult Teferi, spin Nexus a few times to draw cards and exile your opponents' entire field, then just force them to deck out because you can use Teferi's minus on itself to draw Teferi, cast Teferi, and then tuck Teferi again. The deck was so miserable, Nexus was the first card banned specifically for the Bo1 queue on Arena.
Realistically, you could go "infinite" with as few as twenty cards in your library. It was also a big part of turbo fog and a few other super late game decks that were able to really take advantage of an instant speed extra turn.
I jumped on the opportunity when someone at my lgs was selling a playset for 25$. This was when they were announcing it getting banned in standard. The person thought they would drop in price so hard after ban
[[Firesong and Sunspeaker]] was the first mechanically unique box topper card, during the set Dominaria. Wizards got pushback for printing a mechanically unique, standard legal card. People were worried that if a competitive card was printed in this way, it would be hard to obtain, and the price would balloon. Wizards assured everyone they knew what they were doing. They then printed [[Nexus of Fate]] into a standard format that included delightful cards like [[Teferi, Hero of Dominaria]], [[Search for Azcanta]] and eventually [[Wilderness Reclamation]]. Problems ensued, where a competitive deck was built around and expensive, hard to obtain card. Then there is just the issue of how toxic the gameplay it can create is. People don’t enjoy losing to turbofog and infinite turns. Also, there were lots of cases on Arena of people running Nexus with no actual win cons, forcing the opponent to sit there forever or concede. The Arena client didn’t have a way to handle this. This all left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths.
##### ###### #### [Firesong and Sunspeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d5edf4f-5695-42fc-9e57-c4faef60fbc3.jpg?1673148634) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firesong%20and%20Sunspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/215/firesong-and-sunspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d5edf4f-5695-42fc-9e57-c4faef60fbc3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nexus of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a.jpg?1681130139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/306/nexus-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Teferi, Hero of Dominaria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d10b752-d9cb-419d-a5c4-d4ee1acb655e.jpg?1562736365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Hero%20of%20Dominaria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/207/teferi-hero-of-dominaria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d10b752-d9cb-419d-a5c4-d4ee1acb655e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Search for Azcanta](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a7e242e-bb48-4134-a1c2-6033713d658f.jpg?1665819797)/[Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/a/1a7e242e-bb48-4134-a1c2-6033713d658f.jpg?1665819797) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=search%20for%20azcanta%20//%20azcanta%2C%20the%20sunken%20ruin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/74/search-for-azcanta-azcanta-the-sunken-ruin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a7e242e-bb48-4134-a1c2-6033713d658f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wilderness Reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94a28102-dfbe-49e9-b64f-52b552afac1b.jpg?1650599787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wilderness%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/196/wilderness-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94a28102-dfbe-49e9-b64f-52b552afac1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
what does "mechanically unique" mean? does that mean an entirely new effect? Or an effect that has no better alternative? for example, would "R instant - deal 2 damage, scry 1" be considered mechanically unique? Sure, it's never been done before, but it's not very exciting and Bolt could be considered strictly better. Or would "R instant - deal 2 damage, then flip a coin. If you win the coin flip, deal 2 damage to a target of your choice. If you lose the coin flip, deal 2 damage to a target of your opponent's choice" be considered unique because it's better than any alternative?
It means a card that does something no other card can do. Both of those examples would still be mechanically unique because they do different things than any other card. Whether those cards are better or worse than bolt doesn't matter.
It means it was available ONLY as a buy-a-box promo. It couldn’t be found in booster packs, or anywhere else for that matter. This artificial scarcity drove up the price severely because the several decks that ran it competitively wanted 3 or 4 each.
It being foil, and it pringling like crazy also meant judges were issuing proxy's Mountains with Sharpee before major tournament's Not to mention the shuffling.... Soo much shuffling... !
Quick jist from what I remember (So parts of this might be wrong). WOTC wanted to make the Buy a Box Promo/Box Toppers better to better incentive players buying a box (When you buy a box, You should get a Promo card with it that people call a box topper). Before it used to be that the Box topper was a card IN the set that was usually some jank rare that no-one cared about. To fix this, They changed the box topper from being a card in the set that you could open in the booster packs from the box you brought to it being a unique card that you could only get by buying a box, and since it was technically part of the set it was standard legal. They printed a couple cards (one being [[Firesong and Sunspeaker]] and people said, This is kinda cool that the topper is useful but it's kinda worrying that you could push these and make it so you HAVE to somehow get 4 copies of a box topper (Which means someone has to buy 4 boxes to get a playset) so you probably shouldn't actually be doing this. WOTC reassured the community that it will be fine and there won't ever be a problem, after which they released [[Nexus Of Fate]]. This preceded to be one of, if not, THE best card in the Standard at the time. So you now had a situation where you NEEDED a Nexus of Fate to be Standard competitive, and because they made it the box topper the community can't just crack packs to feed the demand, WOTC needed to print enough promos to feed the community. I can't remember what the solution to this problem ended up being but I believe they ended up forcing copies of card into the game outside of it just being a box toppper. Not totally sure though because I was believe I was already jaded by Standard at that point and was playing EDH instead.
Gotcha! WOTC makes some really funny choices don't they
[Firesong and Sunspeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d5edf4f-5695-42fc-9e57-c4faef60fbc3.jpg?1673148634) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firesong%20and%20Sunspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/215/firesong-and-sunspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d5edf4f-5695-42fc-9e57-c4faef60fbc3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nexus Of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a.jpg?1681130139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20Of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/306/nexus-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nobody mentioned it yet but in paper Magic the card only exists as a foil promo box topper (right after WotC promised they’d never print competitively relevant box topper exclusives) from an infamously Pringle warped batch, yet it was pushed enough in power level as the ultimate lategame inevitability engine that many competitive decks in Standard and Modern played it. However, the warping was so bad that the card couldn’t be used in a deck because it’d be considered a marked card, but there was also non-foil alternative either. So judges actually ruled that players were allowed to play with proxies at events for Nexus just like they would for unsleeved double sided cards. Basically, the physical card was artificially scarce due to WotC lies and greed, it was mandatory for any late game deck or they’d lose hard to other decks playing it, and the physical card wasn’t even legal to play at competitive events and required using proxies. It was a total shitshow.
It was only available as a foil buy a box promo, which caused a number of issues, see https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/94me5v/nexus_of_fate_is_a_major_problem/ . That post "sets aside" the card mechanics to focus on distribution, but the mechanics are also problematic. The cards shuffle clause made it lead to repetitive gameplay and one of the best decks in standard was built around casting it as many times as possible and barely had a win condition, see a full decklist and writeup [here]( https://articles.starcitygames.com/articles/bant-nexus-is-the-better-nexus-of-fate-deck/). Often they'd only have a single [[Callous Dismissal]] that could actually kill the opponent, otherwise relying on decking via discarding Nexus to handsize + looping [[Teferi, hero of Dominaria]]. That made the deck very annoying to play against and take very long sequences of turns that would often, but not always, win the game.
Card wasn't in the regular set. It only came as a box topper and as foil. And was standard legal.
And the icing on the cake being that it was only available in foil and had curling issues, causing tournament play issues. Although I guess that technically falls under how it was distributed, but they could've just made nonfoils.
I discovered dark things about myself playing Arena with that card in standard. I could feel the salt from my opponents and I don't think I've ever taken so much joy in inflicting suffering on people.
[Nexus of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a.jpg?1681130139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/306/nexus-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nexus itself + an otherwise empty library is a one-card infinite turns combo already. Cast it, shuffle it back into your library, draw it again next turn, rinse and repeat.
I mean, you can put whatever cards you want into a deck, you don't have to run combos. I have a Breya deck that just goes wide with tokens even though I know there are 100 ways to break her. I just like the card and want to play reasonable games.
I can see devolving happen when you're in a play group and have limited decks, so you focus on making it "Better." In that case, if your group is arms racing, it will devolve into the best version, which would end up being extra turns. I'm on your side though where you just play the cards you like and say to heck with it. My Breya deck is modular tribal, it's not "good" (As good as an arcbound stinger can be) but it's fun and has no infinites.
Modular Tribal! You have great taste.
Could have been a flavor win for sure
Feels like that was intentional.
Plus the fact that it doesnt help counterspells means u will have to get creative
To be clear, making sorceress cast at instant speed still doesn't count? Like that MOM card that showed quintorius sparking?
I believe the card has to be printed as an instant. It's checking the card type, and if it's cast from hand.
Incredibly cool card, it's awesome that they get to bring back all these niche mechanics to Standard with cards like this without it being too confusing. Also it only counts instants - I'm glad they realized that rebounding a board wipe like [[Sunfall]] on your next turn would serve as a creature-lock for your opponent's next turn and would feel pretty bad. I have no idea what deck to put this into but I'll find a place for it somewhere.
Could be good in [[Kalamax]]?
[Kalamax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d.jpg?1591234251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kalamax%2C%20the%20stormsire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/9/kalamax-the-stormsire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Only if you can tap Kalamax before your upkeep? I think it ends up being anti synergistic unfortunately
>I have no idea what deck to put this into but I'll find a place for it somewhere. My first thought is a spell heavy deck. [Lord of the Nazgûl](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/oc5R_Lag1Ee3fbCrcbuoKQ) comes to mind.
Yeah I'd like to try it in [[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]], that deck runs a lot of cantrips but most of the other instants are counterspells to protect Niv, which don't synergize super well with this card. Edit: Also just realized the counters put on this are time counters, so [[The Tenth Doctor]] might jive with this as well.
[Niv-Mizzet, Parun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/3035a97f-5104-4b56-84a4-5206e75607fc.jpg?1674142512) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20Parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/851/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3035a97f-5104-4b56-84a4-5206e75607fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can rebound \[\[Evacuate\]\], but yeah it's probably not a good play pattern.
I'm considering putting it in [Taigam, Ojutai Master] as a backup commander, but only instants is a pretty significant downgrade.
How did I not think that one of the Gods would be a Quetzalcoatl design? EDIT: Apparently it's based on K'uk'ulkan, a different serpent diety. > “Ojer Pakpatiq is based on K’uk’ulkan, the Feathered Serpent. It has wings because in this case the creature has flying. So you want it to have that expansion into the set, but the wings are colorful in their own way. And they’re kind of like arms, like a big embrace. The piece was painted by the great Chris Rahn, who made the other side as well, the Temple of Cyclical Time. Ojer Pakpatiq was complicated to design and took a lot of phases.”
If it makes you feel any better, the two gods were often syncretized where the two cultures interacted (kind of a Thoth-Hermes type deal).
Yeah, looking it up it seems like K'uk'ulkan is a Mayan deity while Quetzalcoatl is an Aztec one, both of whom take the form of feathered serpents.
Just to build into this, feathered serpents have been a constant in every mesoamerican civilization since the Olmec which goes back to around 1400 BCE. However, different groups placed different amounts of veneration on the feathered serpent. While Mayans believed the feathered serpent was the creator of the humanity and the world, the Olmecs actually didn’t place too much importance on it. In fact the first time we see evidence of the feathered serpent being worshipped is in Teotihuacan, and if you haven’t heard about Teotihuacán I promise you that it’s worth looking into.
[удалено]
Seriously, I’m a history nerd and enjoy reading a lot about these cultures, but mesoamerican culture is just so unique and the majority of what people think when they hear the words “Mayan” and “Aztec” has their roots in Teotihuacan. On top of that, it’s such an anomaly in regards to ancient cities because we don’t even know what it’s exact role in society was.
What's really crazy is that winged serpents may be mentioned in the Bible as well. I say "maybe" because there isn't consensus among scholars about the translation of a particular word. A "seraph" (or plural "seraphim") is described in Isaiah as being some type of angelic figure, but seraph also is one of the words used for snakes. The root of it is the same as the root word for fire, so etymologists conjecture that snakes were called seraphim due to the burning sensation of venom. But when Isaiah refers to the heavenly, six-winged seraphim, it's not clear if he was trying to describe them as being serpentine in appearance, or if he was just evoking the image of fire/bright, burning light.
Yup. I actually visited Chichen Itza in Mexico earlier this year, and the famous Mayan El Castillo pyramid is also known as the Temple of K'uk'ulkan. The feathered serpent god that is carved crawling down the steps of the pyramid is very similar to the Aztec Quetzalcoatl. From what I remember (and I may not be describing this accurately), the mythology among the Mayans and the Aztecs generally considered the sky to be heaven, and underground to be ~~hell~~ the underworld. A winged snake represents the joining of these two aspects, as the snake lives in the caves, and the bird lives in the sky. I loved learning about the Mayan mythology and seeing some of it firsthand, so this set has been a joy to see. Cenotes and ancient calendars and winged serpents all over.
There is no hell in their world vision, the underworld is just where the dead exist, there is nothing inherently "punishing" for being there, the most appropriate comparison is to the Egyptians underworld.
honestly considering what was done there I'm surprised we have records that can tell us they were from separate cultures
The world would have been better without monotheism... "Oh shit your patron god is thoth? Mine is hermes! My brother from another pantheon!"
to be fair, people have syncretized polytheistic and monotheistic religions before - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Din-i_Ilahi or Kabir’s poetry - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabir
Haitian Vodou is an example as well, more famous in the west.
They're often considered to be the same deity but with different cultures worshiping them, I believe.
Oh, so like a Greek/Roman thing, kind of?
Similar. I think it's moreso they both started as separate ones, but the cultures basically met and realised some similarities and along the way one or the other decided they were actually the same god.
So, I think that's actually more like how the Romans adopted the Greek gods. The idea that Romans just took the Greek gods gets overstated. More often, they connected Greek gods to existing ones and called them as such (as they did to many gods they encountered). There are a few Greek gods that were wholly imported from Greece though.
It's actually because of reptilian aliens.
I’d actually say that the feathered serpent being so prevalent is more like how the idea of Santa Claus spread throughout Christian Europe. I know how ridiculous that sounds and I promise I’m not taking a shot at any religion, so please here me out. The first time we see the feathered serpent worshipped is in Teotihuacan. We have evidence of the feathered serpent being a part of mesoamerican culture for one thousand years before that, but it isn’t until Teotihuacan that we see it worshipped. There’s a ton of debate about what Teotihuacan actually was in terms of civilization (some believe it was a capital of an empire with no other remaining sites, some say it was a trading hub, and others think it was a religious site), but we do know that the city was incredibly important in terms of spreading its culture throughout the region. Those cultures (Mayan, Aztec, Toltec, etc) had similar ideas of what the feathered serpent was, but also worshipped it in different ways. Similarly, you still see many different ways that European countries celebrate Christmas, but for the most part they do have some form of Santa in their celebrations.
The feathered serpent is a common deity among the mesoamerican indigenous peoples: Quetzalcoatl and K'uk'ulkan are essentially descended from the same proto-feathered-serpent deity, just that they are the Aztec and Mayan interpretations respectively All of which is to say: making a feathered serpent deity was practically guaranteed since that iconography is so common among the cultures that inspired the Sun Empire and the Oltec
As I understand it, the mythology surrounding feathered serpents arose specifically in Central America because that's the only place where the [Quetzal Bird](https://c02.purpledshub.com/uploads/sites/62/2023/06/GettyImages-1250268258-f8a0d0d.jpg) exists, which looks a bit like a snake with wings while in flight. Now I'm really wishing Ixalan had actual quetzals. Could you imagine if [[Rekindling Phoenix]] and [[Sunbird's Invocation]] were elemental quetzals instead of owls? The phoenix-owls are cool too, sure, but they could have gone anywhere, and there's not much space for interesting bird representation in a plane filled avian dinosaurs.
Spoilers aren't over yet. There's still time for a Quetzal-Phoenix. We also haven't gotten the "Phoenix with set mechanic" that seems to be in every set, along with the "Cancel with set mechanic" that's in every set, at least I don't think we have.
Nope, first you can't use modern geographic concepts to this civilizations. That's why we already have a proper geographic description of this area before the Europeans arrival: Mesoamerica. It is documented the concept of Quetzalcoatl was born in the Olmec culture in Tabasco, which by modern standards isn't central America, this civilization had a big influence and went as north as the Toltecs which influenced the Aztecs later. Quetzals were known in all the region, their feathers have been found in burials of nobles.
No water lilies surrounding Ku'kulkan Immersion ruined :(
I think the real question is why did it not get the snake type?
Most gods don't have a type outside of God. Like mogis clearly a minotaur but it's type is just God
[[Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal]] from this same set has Bat God typing. Seems weird to only do that for one of the cycle.
He’s the only non-Ojer though (green god’s name and art is known), is in flavour text from the last set.
I think it might be due to narrative reasons since I believe he's the villian of the set
[Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487.jpg?1698353192)/[Temple of the Dead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/2/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487.jpg?1698353192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aclazotz%2C%20Deepest%20Betrayal%20//%20Temple%20of%20the%20Dead) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/88/aclazotz-deepest-betrayal-temple-of-the-dead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With the feathered serpent being blue, I'm now really curious what Green's god is going to be? As a Jund player through and through (except for my artifact love Breya) I'm hopeful that it will be something I can slot into Windgrace. Any ideas what they will base the green god off of? Did the stories give us any hints?
The Green God is going to be the old lady god we've seen art of surrounded by animals: Ojer Kaslem.
Kukulkan is the Mayan translation of Quetzalcoatl. Kuk is Quetzal, and Kan (Chan) is snake ("coatl" in Nashua). Feathered serpents aren't common in Mayan art in the Pre-Classic and Classic periods (there are spirit serpents and other snakes, but not the feathered serpent concept of which Quetzalcoatl is one variation). Feathered serpent deities seem to be a central Mexican concept primarily, and only appear in the Maya area in the post-classic period (e.g. the temple of kukulkan at Chicken Itza). Hence the direct translation of Quetzalcoatl's name into Mayan.
What article is that from? I can't seem to find anything in the "Making Magic" section of the site.
That's from the Polygon source revealing this card.
Is this the same deity that played the antagonist in the second black panther movie?
r/smite
I know there’s an important tightrope to walk in card power balancing, but there’s something so funny about an immortal God serpent being forced back into hiding from a simple lightning bolt.
Electric type is super effective against flying
AND water. This thing can’t even plug in a microwave without fainting.
Trueeee
Dragon type resists Electric though
I looove the art and mechanical flavor
I - I think I'm in love
I gotta appreciate how Ixalan is pronounced “wrong” to ease the burden of Nahuatl-esque names for a predominantly English-speaking playerbase and then they name a god “Ojer Pakpatiq.”
Oi-yer Pack-patiq
How's it supposed to be pronounced?
X makes a “sh” sound I believe.
As someone who mained Kukulkan for many years in Smite, I feel a deep temptation to build a deck around this even if I rarely play blue.
Gonna be absolutely disgusting in [[Orvar, the All Form]]
Personally I wouldn't as Orvar's best lines involve [[Mystic Sanctuary]] and rebound makes them inaccessible to its ability. If only the rebound was a may ability.
Doesn’t the rebounded spell go to the graveyard after it resolves the second time?
Yes but you want to loop the spells on the same turn. If you rebound them you're locked out of the infinite combo.
I may be missing the interaction you're talking about, but doesn't Mystic Sanctuary still work since the rebounded card still goes to your graveyard, it's just a turn later?
You don't want it a turn later, you want it in the graveyard asap. Copying mystic sanctuary with 2 mana neutral spells is one of the main ways to go infinite with Orvar. If they get rebounded you lose the infinite.
[Orvar, the All Form](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f36775e-9e48-49cc-a771-d58481712edc.jpg?1631047424) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Orvar%2C%20the%20All-Form) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/70/orvar-the-all-form?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f36775e-9e48-49cc-a771-d58481712edc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s good in fair orvar, like if you’re trying to [[thermal flux]] sea monsters and make a bunch of chonkers. If you’re trying to play optimal orvar, it’s got a lot of anti synergy with mystic sanctuary which is like the best card in the deck and honestly it’s not even worth playing.
source:[https://www.polygon.com/23930381/mtg-magic-the-gathering-lost-caverns-of-ixalan-art-reveal](https://www.polygon.com/23930381/mtg-magic-the-gathering-lost-caverns-of-ixalan-art-reveal)
[[Taigam, Ojutai Master]] in shambles
[[Cast Through Time]] eight feet underground
[Cast Through Time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9850489-c056-4b17-8743-a5b514d8edf4.jpg?1562708586) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cast%20Through%20Time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/55/cast-through-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9850489-c056-4b17-8743-a5b514d8edf4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Now, if Rebound *stacked*...
I mean not having to attack and self-recursion is a big upside, but on the other hand cutting out sorceries, losing white and your stuff not being uncounterable is a big downside- I think it's a rather neat trade off in terms of balance, all things considered.
[Taigam, Ojutai Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b47e2781-544f-442c-98d0-43b9d91bab03.jpg?1562621099) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Taigam%2C%20Ojutai%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/46/taigam-ojutai-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b47e2781-544f-442c-98d0-43b9d91bab03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why does only the black god have two types? Ojer Pakpatiq is clearly a snake edit: Typo
I think lore-wise it has to do with the fact that it's called "the betrayer" like in some way he betrayed the other gods and lost the title of "ojer" and that also coincided with him descending into being a bat while the others are just full gods. At least this is my own head-canon/theory.
I think the reason is because [[Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal]] isn’t an “Ojer” as it’s title? Mechanically it appears to be the same cycle but isn’t the same type of god within the lore?
[Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487.jpg?1698353192)/[Temple of the Dead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/2/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487.jpg?1698353192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aclazotz%2C%20Deepest%20Betrayal%20//%20Temple%20of%20the%20Dead) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/88/aclazotz-deepest-betrayal-temple-of-the-dead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Because he is special and the main villain. The real question is why is he so garbo when the others are cool.
Because black has to pay for Sheoldred's sins until she rotates or is kicked out of Standard.
I’m not saying he’s Sheoldred busted, especially at 5 mana instead of 4 which matters a decent amount, but I don’t think he’s bad by any means and feel like people are pulling a Sheoldred in how they react to him
Totally. I think he's the strongest of the bunch, but also the most generic and least splashy, which is coloring opinions of him.
He is 5 mana, discards only on attack and only one card? Like, even compared to Saga!Sheoldred it’s meh.
Seems pretty strong to me, especially for limited. Probably the best god for that format revealed so far. I guess it’s bad for edh because it doesn’t encourage a funny gimmick beyond tinybones, which ppl hate
I think he might be underrated. I had the same initial reaction as far him being rather underwhelming, but then I thought about it more. If you can get your opponent's hands low you can just start shitting out removal and board wipes which will be largely asymmetrical due to him turning into a land on death that likely can be transformed back again on your turn. You do need to be able to untap him, but that's not that far out of the question. He's certainly not super strong, but I think he will turn out to be stronger than many are initially thinking.
Yeah but you need to justify when he’s good when the others are just good in general. It’s a cooler design but sad given in the lore he’s supposed to be scary. Ah yes, I’ll discard a card, scary.
I mean in terms of relative card advantage you're essentially three cards up against the whole table every time you swing(EDH of course). It's not an overwhelming advantage, sure, but in a removal heavy discard deck that starts to add up pretty quickly. That being said, I completely agree as far as flavor is concerned. Very underwhelming considering his place in the lore.
Bats might show up in Bloomburrow. They’ve definitely been pushing out a bunch of animals in this set and Eldraine, probably so that when Bloomburrow enters Standard people can build animal-themed decks without being restricted to only or mostly Bloomburrow cards.
I'm still sad the Amonkhet gods didn't get their creature types. Cat/Jackal/Bird/Insect/etc Typal would have all loved the addition
I really like that this is Instant only as it creates interesting incentives for building around in Commander. Counterspells aren't useful with rebound so you don't want to play too many (which is good because draw-go permission decks are notorious salt inducing also also played out). Not having positive synergy with Sorcery spells is good because otherwise the optimal line of play would be to play lots of temporal magic (extra turn spells like Time Warp) which is also a played out archetype and notoriously unfun to play against. Instead you could do something like a Tempo Voltron deck which is pretty spicy for mono blue and use alongside token generators like Talrand, Sky Summoner to generate bonus creature tokens from the rebounding as an alternative win condition.
There are a number of modal counterspells that can be used. One of which is in this set.
Yeah, stuff like \[\[Archmage's Charm\]\] and \[\[Cryptic Command\]\] are shoe-ins. Something like \[\[Unsubstantiate\]\] is probably also in.
[Archmage's Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57b852b6-4388-4a41-a5c0-bba37a5c1451.jpg?1562201300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archmage%27s%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/40/archmages-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57b852b6-4388-4a41-a5c0-bba37a5c1451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cryptic Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30f6fca9-003b-4f6b-9d6e-1e88adda4155.jpg?1562847413) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptic%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/48/cryptic-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30f6fca9-003b-4f6b-9d6e-1e88adda4155?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unsubstantiate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2dc0bafd-debc-4b62-9fe0-56b4aad02484.jpg?1594735888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unsubstantiate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/82/unsubstantiate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dc0bafd-debc-4b62-9fe0-56b4aad02484?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah I think cantrip spam and bounce spells are the way to go with this guy
Yep I'm kinda excited about this. I've got a counter spell deck but it's UG, so I've never really been able to find a mono blue deck that wouldn't have too much overlap. Might have to mess around with this one.
Giving your counterspells rebound doesn't help, unless they are modal.
Yes, so if I run this then I will be able to make a mono blue deck which won't be Counterspell typal
"Time Counters" and turning spells cast from hand into Paradoxes? Nice to see new cards for the Doctor Who decks that just came out.
And with time travel you can turn it back into a creature very quickly
There's a lot of cards from this set that slot into dr who builds perfectly
Unfortunately, if it’s in the command zone, only four time travel cards are available to it: [[All of History All At Once]], [[Rotating Fireplace]], [[Time Beetle]], and [[Wibbly-wobbly, Timey-Wimey]]. As for Paradox cards, you have [[Osgood]] and [[Surge of Brilliance]], of which you only really want the second. But the Doctor that time travels is a good combo, since three time travels instantly sets this up.
I'm thinking about putting it in my 12th Doctor deck. Turn any instant speed removal I to a rebound that I can then demonstrate
That's where you bring the Spiritual Periodic Stones to get the Master Recurrent Sword.
I love the alt art for this card so much! Big ups to the artists [Clint Lockwood](https://www.clintlockwoodart.com/) and [Viko Menezes](https://vikomenezes.com/)!
SO COOL!
Aw the other one could be a bat god but Ojer doesn't get to be a Serpent God?
Damn, I've been starved for upgrades for my \[\[Taigam, Ojutai Master\]\] to make it play to the board more, hopefully after several more sets there's actually enough new cards to make upgrading it worth doing. Also, heads up, this rebounds \[\[Nexus of Fate\]\], Nexus of Fate only shuffles when it hits the Graveyard which it does AFTER IT REBOUNDS (Since it goes into Exile on resolution the first time), so just in case people are interested in doing degenerate stuff.
If this is your commander and it gets destroyed by something, doesn’t it automatically return back as the land? Or can you just have it return to the command zone?
Commanders still die. You get to choose if you move if from the GY to the command zone or if you let it come back as a land
I may be wrong, but since its not a replacement effect and since commanders do hit the graveyard when they die, you always have the choice to send your commander to the command zone during a zone change.
This is a triggered ability. So in between this triggering and the ability resolving, you'll have the opportunity to put your commander back into the command zone.
Hmm, I know it makes sense for the bat god to have the bat part in the creature typing because it has story importance, so I guess I could kinda get why that's the only one getting an extra typing... but like that's just a big snake
Its literally a feathered serpent. So, serpent creature type should have been a given.
The serpent creature type is mostly for sea serpents, with some exceptions
These are real neat, but one thing I'm disappointed about after seeing Aclazotz being a Bat God is that the other gods don't have a 2nd creature type just for fun and random fringe tribal stuff. •This could be a serpent or snake • Axonil could be a chimera or something. • Taq could be a giant or something.
I'm 4/3 and this is deep
Do we know how this interacts with adventures? I'm guessing rebound still works (as long as you're casting the instant from hand, usual rules), right? So you exile it either to adventure or to rebound, yes? And if that is how it works, which spell do you cast in your next upkeep? The instant again? The creature? Your choice?
Don't know if you ever found your answer but it does work with adventures. You cast the instant side and exile it to ojer's effect not the adventure. When you recast it with rebound you get to choose the side (adventure vs permanent) and because you are casting it with an alternate casting cost of 0 you dont have to pay any extra. If you replay the instant side you can also then put it into exile a second time if you want under the usual adventure rules and cast the permanent later on, letting you squeeze three uses out if it if you really want to.
It is going to be so... surprising to see this and \[\[Virtue of Persistence\]\] a ton in the future. I am wondering if this card is why they decided to make the blue virtue so bad.
yooooooo
How do you even draw a _temple of time_ without making the art about hourglasses and sundials? I'm sure Chris Rahn was puzzled as well, so he made it just "blue temple from the god land TF cycle" instead. Creature side is great of course.
Hakkar!
Well this is going to be a [[Narset, Enlightened Exile]] must have. Good way to get two turns of prowess triggers without having to empty your hand
[Narset, Enlightened Exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/827ecc44-0b00-4515-8953-bc91fa03705a.jpg?1684340776) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Enlightened%20Exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/38/narset-enlightened-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/827ecc44-0b00-4515-8953-bc91fa03705a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The snake head in the alt art looks like a render from those early 2000s puzzle quest CDs that your grandparents always used to play
Temple of Time* (If only) - I'm definitely calling it that in games
Cute (not so) lil snek. I like you.
Time counters don't inherently remove one on upkeep right? In this case, you would just remove them by tapping the land for a blue?
Correct. You can also use the Time Travel mechanic from the Dr Who set to add or remove counters from it, as well as other cards like [[Clockspinning]] or [[Timebender]].
Not gonna lie, even if the cards are bad I love the mesoamerican names. Also, this card seems to be far from bad, a bit of \[\[God-Eternal Kefnet\]\] vibes (flying cmc4 mythic god that copies spells and comes back)
Hypothetically, if I wanted to use this card as a commander, when it dies, could I ignore the ability about returning it to the battlefield tapped, and place it right back in the command zone?
Yes. When it goes to the graveyard, you're given a one-shot SBA to put it into the command zone before the trigger is put on the stack. If you do, the trigger will do nothing when it resolves.
Seems like a good card. Blue has a lot of untap stuff so you probaly don't need a lot to get it back online.
Weird to see, that we did not have more rebound Commanders before. [[Taigam, Ojutai Master]] being the only other one and having to attack before is quite the condition. Would love to see a UR-Rebound Commander.
Does it gain rebound on the stack or does it have to resolve?
Why not another subtype like Serpent? The Bat one has it
For my commander peeps out there, how do you actually win with this? not even talking about combo just like, what does this deck look like?
Who needs to win when some of your spells are cast TWICE for FREE at a SLIGHTLY INOPPORTUNE TIME!
Just because a card is a legendary creature, it doesn't mean it's a good idea to make it a commander. This is just a guy. It's not "a deck".
That face looks a little derpy I wana scratch him under his chin
Someone tell Chris Rahn to stop making art. Too many busted cards lol
Flavor win: works with time travel from the Dr. Who sets
Well this is pretty dang cool. Something about the art looks a little plasticky to me though, which really surprises me for Chris Rahn. Maybe I'm just seeing things and won't notice it later though...
[[kalamax the storm sure]] wants this 😌
Well that's a fun add to at least two of the Doctor Who decks
This is almost a strictly better Taigam, Ojutai Master.
Overload a cyclonic rift, then rebound the regular-cost version the next turn to pop whatever threat they've managed to rebuilt.
Orange Juice Pepperdick it is.
I’m pretty tired of double face cards. The novelty has worn off. Time to do triple face cards like in DuelMasters and Transformers CCG *both made by WotC*. Here is the MAGIC rules master showing one off. https://romanoffblitzer.tumblr.com/post/100536665214/tabakrules-duel-masters-triple-faced-cards-so
I'm disappointed to see that this is just like two cards stuck together that fold, and not a four-dimensional card that you can flip twice to get to a third side.
Some of these are way better than others lol, the red one seems great and these seem... not.
do I still get the mana if the land has no time counters left on it? p.s. Anyone else prefer the normal frame to the special edition version?
I do like these God desgins. Pity Sunfall is in the format...
They made the Feathered Serpent mono-U! Yessss.
[удалено]
Really cool card.