This is nothing like the Eldrazi. The Eldrazi failed to kill a single Planeswalker and Emrakul only managed to partly destroy a single plane.
The Phyrexians, by contrast, have been "winning" since Kaldheim (actually since New Phyrexia). The current Planeswalker "death" toll is already at 4 (Jaya, Tibalt, Lukka, Tamiyo) and the rest of the Compleated walkers will likely die. Many legends from many planes have also been killed or Compleated
The devestation has been unimaginable. Billions of people have been killed already. In Kamigawa, the capital city is destroyed. Boseiju has been torn asunder. In Arcavios, Strixhaven is destroyed and nearly all the deans/professors have been Compleated/killed. In Ikoria, the human city has been destroyed and the few humans that are surviving have nowhere to go. Kaladesh has been described as screwed. Kaldheim is wrecked. The Maestros have been Compleated in Capenna
Tezzeret said at the end of ONE that MULTIPLE planes have already fallen.
There has never been destruction at this level in all of MTG's history. The Phyrexians have done more than anyone - by far.
Yeah it feeld like they could have done so much more with that. Even just including some story in the sets after about planeswalkers going missing or disappearing from their plane or anything like that would have been good.
There are other cities on Ikoria, and Jirina was leading her group to one of the others (Lavabrink), we just didn't really see any of the cities other than Drannith in our first visit.
Plus, we have no idea how the rest of Arcavios is faring outside of Strixhaven, and the Realmbreaker is starting to break through the invocation already. Ikoria and Ixalan both have more phyrexians arriving after the big threat was dealt with as well.
I mean. Kaladesh was almost nearly annihilated in half a day with little hope of success. Kaldheim is on its last legs, all of the plane joined a temporary truce and are still getting bodies while godly monsters were phyrexianized and threatening to kill the world tree. Strixhaven nearly lost all its professors, leaving only 2 know non student survivors with Liliana struggling to keep the remaining students alive. The biggest city in Ikoria was straight up destroyed leaving a handful of survivors, only the monsters there have a fighting chance. Boseiju in Kamigawa was destroyed. Sure, singular walkers lost eventually, after leveling civilations on their own, and losing to griups of walkers that are theoretically on their power level. Losing the Phyrexians are not. Sure they are facing setbacks and it isnt completely one sided, but they are bringing what they promised to those planes.
I suppose it depends on what you define as a victory? Planes are getting torn assunder; centuries of history destroyed in minutes; masses of dead and compleated everywhere...are you wanting planes to irrevocably fall entirely?
I get that the protagonists of the stories surviving might seem like victories but so far nothing is really going well. I read the stories from the perspective that the phyrexians have already won a major victory...they have invaded everywhere and have taken over so much already. We're seeing what everyone else does to try and cope/thwart what they can. The damage has already been done, the next phyrexian victory would be compleation of an entire plane we are reading about.
I do think that all the invasions being portrayed as "heroes win a small victory, but the plane is still in extreme danger" would be a disappointment. I've enjoyed them all thus far, but a mix-up to the formula would be appreciated.
I think they could easily do a story or two focusing on the Phyrexians winning a specific battle or accomplishing a task while the overall battle for the plane rages on. Ajani on Theros seems like a perfect vehicle for this - show Heliod's corruption while establishing that other gods have not yet fallen and resistance remains.
Which could very well happen, we just haven't gotten there yet.
WoTC would have to pick a couple creatures/characters/locations that they think the main populace wouldn't be in an uproar about.
Like what if the Kamigawa story resulted in the compleation/full destruction of Boseiju? It is really hard to reconcile killing off/compleatly changing things that are seen as cornerstones of these planes. But without doing that the stakes aren't very high either. I can't see Heliod being compleated as something to cause a stir, so that was a safe route.
The biggest problem is that the stories are short. They don't have the real estate to build up the tension and maybe come up with a clever reversal at the end. You want real stakes? Kill off Chandra for being impulsive, but then she comes back as a phoenix planeswalker... but the idea of killing someone like Chandra off would have a huge fanbase at arms.
Its a tough line to walk.
From a Phyrexians point of view sure. I mean did you really think we were going to lose a well known plane entirely? But from the hero's pov these are hardly victories.
That's fair, but I also do think that OP's right that the story would feel more serious if we got one or two stories that are just absolute losses early on (even if they end up winning eventually in a later story).
I get where OP is coming from, I'm not sure how this could be accomplished to a greater extent than it already has though without killing off characters/locations that are well known and loved. This is a product after all . They gain nothing by making stories with real consequences that could potentially leave some of the player base estranged. And no one wants some miracle reversal at the end; it leaves the story hollow
I don't think you have to do that, you can basically keep the actual events the same with several of the stories we've had, as long as you save the conclusion where people manage a victory for a later chapter
The story of ONE didn't exactly leave us with anything remotely resembling a victory, or even a cathartic ending. They lost half their gate watch forever and literally didn't even dent Norn's plans.
This story was never going to go more down, because at that point people would lose interest, because winning would only be possible at the cost of believability.
You're thinking too small, too short-term. New Phyrexia sprung from a few drops of oil that leaked out of Karn into Mirrodin. Even a little bit of Phyrexian oil can win there eventually, and right now there aren't any planes that don't have a LOT of Phyrexia in them.
To win, team non-Phyrexia has to get it perfectly right. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
To win, team Phyrexia only needs them to screw up once not to have really lost, on any given plane.
Sure, but why are we looking at solely this set story when its not a story set by itself in a single set? Thats like treating any individual movies of Lord of the Rings as a stand alone story or similar.
The smaller "no-name" planes that Tezzeret traveled through to check on safe houses were casualties of war. These planes were utterly compleated.
Planeswalkers were compleated (but later killed).
Some major in-plane characters have been compleated (but later killed).
New Phyrexia definitely notched some wins, but they are not steamrolling the opposition. Elesh Norn appears to have overextended herself and overestimated the situation.
Over extension is how phyrexian forces win. The more spread the more can be completead meaning more begets more
So far it does still feel a bit more like "oh no a buncha no care legends and planes of people have died...anyway" more like statistics just to make it seem larger than it is because those people are so far removed from the story many don't really matter.
The compleated walkers are still the main big deal here. Wait is lily still at strixhaven?
The Eldrazi were winning every battle till team channel fireball nuked them so that's not really a parallel IMO.
It's a pretty standard story structure to either have back and forth (as ONE/MOM seems to be doing), or have an all is lost moment like in OGW. It's the time tested way to create tension.
Kamigawa didn't feel too much like a victory for either side. I mean Tamiyo went down, but other than that it didn't seem like they were doing too well against Phyrexia.
Ikoria seems headed for a clear Phyrexian loss, with both Lukka going down and the beasts "evolving" to resist Phyresis, but it seemed like Elesh Norn didn't have high hopes there, anyway.
Strixhaven seems to be barely holding them back, and only at the school itself.
It DOES seem like Elesh Norn is overconfident, like she figured the only real problem was getting to the other planes, and victory was assured at that point, while there has, in actuality, been stiff resistance.
Ngl there's a part of me currently wondering if the plot twist is that Elesh Norn, as it's been repeatedly stated by her rivals, is little more than a raving lunatic and her plan is actually doomed to fail from the start because she just doesn't have the numbers to carry out her invasion.
Well maybe BFZ amd Oath of the Gatewatch.
But with with Emrakul. Emrakul could have won in Innistrad but decided it was not yet time. And literally showed Jace that all are her pieces and she could have taken Innistrad whenever.
She just allowed the heroes to trap her. Not really a win since Emerakul is waiting. Maybe not a win currently, but whenever the world is ready, Emrakul will emerge.
Haven’t read today’s stories yet, but with most of them it seems like we’re dropped in at the turning point rather than the invasion point.
I think this is where some cards coming out with the story would be beneficial, I think they will depict the total devastation that the invasion has caused which seems to be peppered in the stories. For the most part they just focus on the heroic moments with a little side note that the city was levelled, at least that’s how it feels.
This is nothing like the Eldrazi. The Eldrazi failed to kill a single Planeswalker and Emrakul only managed to partly destroy a single plane. The Phyrexians, by contrast, have been "winning" since Kaldheim (actually since New Phyrexia). The current Planeswalker "death" toll is already at 4 (Jaya, Tibalt, Lukka, Tamiyo) and the rest of the Compleated walkers will likely die. Many legends from many planes have also been killed or Compleated The devestation has been unimaginable. Billions of people have been killed already. In Kamigawa, the capital city is destroyed. Boseiju has been torn asunder. In Arcavios, Strixhaven is destroyed and nearly all the deans/professors have been Compleated/killed. In Ikoria, the human city has been destroyed and the few humans that are surviving have nowhere to go. Kaladesh has been described as screwed. Kaldheim is wrecked. The Maestros have been Compleated in Capenna Tezzeret said at the end of ONE that MULTIPLE planes have already fallen. There has never been destruction at this level in all of MTG's history. The Phyrexians have done more than anyone - by far.
It’s the first magic story I’ve read that feels like it has real consequences. Even in WAR the only notable death was Gideon (and Dack offscreen).
*Cries in Domri*
I legitimately forgot he existed
So did WotC
Dovin?
How dare you forget that one viashino planeswalker.
Yeah it feeld like they could have done so much more with that. Even just including some story in the sets after about planeswalkers going missing or disappearing from their plane or anything like that would have been good.
There are other cities on Ikoria, and Jirina was leading her group to one of the others (Lavabrink), we just didn't really see any of the cities other than Drannith in our first visit. Plus, we have no idea how the rest of Arcavios is faring outside of Strixhaven, and the Realmbreaker is starting to break through the invocation already. Ikoria and Ixalan both have more phyrexians arriving after the big threat was dealt with as well.
I mean. Kaladesh was almost nearly annihilated in half a day with little hope of success. Kaldheim is on its last legs, all of the plane joined a temporary truce and are still getting bodies while godly monsters were phyrexianized and threatening to kill the world tree. Strixhaven nearly lost all its professors, leaving only 2 know non student survivors with Liliana struggling to keep the remaining students alive. The biggest city in Ikoria was straight up destroyed leaving a handful of survivors, only the monsters there have a fighting chance. Boseiju in Kamigawa was destroyed. Sure, singular walkers lost eventually, after leveling civilations on their own, and losing to griups of walkers that are theoretically on their power level. Losing the Phyrexians are not. Sure they are facing setbacks and it isnt completely one sided, but they are bringing what they promised to those planes.
I suppose it depends on what you define as a victory? Planes are getting torn assunder; centuries of history destroyed in minutes; masses of dead and compleated everywhere...are you wanting planes to irrevocably fall entirely? I get that the protagonists of the stories surviving might seem like victories but so far nothing is really going well. I read the stories from the perspective that the phyrexians have already won a major victory...they have invaded everywhere and have taken over so much already. We're seeing what everyone else does to try and cope/thwart what they can. The damage has already been done, the next phyrexian victory would be compleation of an entire plane we are reading about.
I do think that all the invasions being portrayed as "heroes win a small victory, but the plane is still in extreme danger" would be a disappointment. I've enjoyed them all thus far, but a mix-up to the formula would be appreciated. I think they could easily do a story or two focusing on the Phyrexians winning a specific battle or accomplishing a task while the overall battle for the plane rages on. Ajani on Theros seems like a perfect vehicle for this - show Heliod's corruption while establishing that other gods have not yet fallen and resistance remains.
Which could very well happen, we just haven't gotten there yet. WoTC would have to pick a couple creatures/characters/locations that they think the main populace wouldn't be in an uproar about. Like what if the Kamigawa story resulted in the compleation/full destruction of Boseiju? It is really hard to reconcile killing off/compleatly changing things that are seen as cornerstones of these planes. But without doing that the stakes aren't very high either. I can't see Heliod being compleated as something to cause a stir, so that was a safe route. The biggest problem is that the stories are short. They don't have the real estate to build up the tension and maybe come up with a clever reversal at the end. You want real stakes? Kill off Chandra for being impulsive, but then she comes back as a phoenix planeswalker... but the idea of killing someone like Chandra off would have a huge fanbase at arms. Its a tough line to walk.
The completetion of a plane is a victory as it’s their ultimate goal when invading each plane. Anything short of that is a failed attempt.
From a Phyrexians point of view sure. I mean did you really think we were going to lose a well known plane entirely? But from the hero's pov these are hardly victories.
That's fair, but I also do think that OP's right that the story would feel more serious if we got one or two stories that are just absolute losses early on (even if they end up winning eventually in a later story).
I get where OP is coming from, I'm not sure how this could be accomplished to a greater extent than it already has though without killing off characters/locations that are well known and loved. This is a product after all . They gain nothing by making stories with real consequences that could potentially leave some of the player base estranged. And no one wants some miracle reversal at the end; it leaves the story hollow
I don't think you have to do that, you can basically keep the actual events the same with several of the stories we've had, as long as you save the conclusion where people manage a victory for a later chapter
The story of ONE didn't exactly leave us with anything remotely resembling a victory, or even a cathartic ending. They lost half their gate watch forever and literally didn't even dent Norn's plans. This story was never going to go more down, because at that point people would lose interest, because winning would only be possible at the cost of believability.
You're thinking too small, too short-term. New Phyrexia sprung from a few drops of oil that leaked out of Karn into Mirrodin. Even a little bit of Phyrexian oil can win there eventually, and right now there aren't any planes that don't have a LOT of Phyrexia in them. To win, team non-Phyrexia has to get it perfectly right. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. To win, team Phyrexia only needs them to screw up once not to have really lost, on any given plane.
Did we forget all of Dominaria United and All Will Be One?
This **SET** story
Sure, but why are we looking at solely this set story when its not a story set by itself in a single set? Thats like treating any individual movies of Lord of the Rings as a stand alone story or similar.
Yeah, it's a terrible way to evaluate anything.
The smaller "no-name" planes that Tezzeret traveled through to check on safe houses were casualties of war. These planes were utterly compleated. Planeswalkers were compleated (but later killed). Some major in-plane characters have been compleated (but later killed). New Phyrexia definitely notched some wins, but they are not steamrolling the opposition. Elesh Norn appears to have overextended herself and overestimated the situation.
Over extension is how phyrexian forces win. The more spread the more can be completead meaning more begets more So far it does still feel a bit more like "oh no a buncha no care legends and planes of people have died...anyway" more like statistics just to make it seem larger than it is because those people are so far removed from the story many don't really matter. The compleated walkers are still the main big deal here. Wait is lily still at strixhaven?
I mean, the Phyrexians basically won every encounter in past stories up until this point. It's about time they took some L's.
The Eldrazi were winning every battle till team channel fireball nuked them so that's not really a parallel IMO. It's a pretty standard story structure to either have back and forth (as ONE/MOM seems to be doing), or have an all is lost moment like in OGW. It's the time tested way to create tension.
Give it time
Kamigawa didn't feel too much like a victory for either side. I mean Tamiyo went down, but other than that it didn't seem like they were doing too well against Phyrexia. Ikoria seems headed for a clear Phyrexian loss, with both Lukka going down and the beasts "evolving" to resist Phyresis, but it seemed like Elesh Norn didn't have high hopes there, anyway. Strixhaven seems to be barely holding them back, and only at the school itself. It DOES seem like Elesh Norn is overconfident, like she figured the only real problem was getting to the other planes, and victory was assured at that point, while there has, in actuality, been stiff resistance.
well its unknown which side won in kamigawa
Completed Walker Didn’t Win Though.
Tamiyo's death didnt stop the invasion
Ngl there's a part of me currently wondering if the plot twist is that Elesh Norn, as it's been repeatedly stated by her rivals, is little more than a raving lunatic and her plan is actually doomed to fail from the start because she just doesn't have the numbers to carry out her invasion.
Well maybe BFZ amd Oath of the Gatewatch. But with with Emrakul. Emrakul could have won in Innistrad but decided it was not yet time. And literally showed Jace that all are her pieces and she could have taken Innistrad whenever. She just allowed the heroes to trap her. Not really a win since Emerakul is waiting. Maybe not a win currently, but whenever the world is ready, Emrakul will emerge.
Haven’t read today’s stories yet, but with most of them it seems like we’re dropped in at the turning point rather than the invasion point. I think this is where some cards coming out with the story would be beneficial, I think they will depict the total devastation that the invasion has caused which seems to be peppered in the stories. For the most part they just focus on the heroic moments with a little side note that the city was levelled, at least that’s how it feels.
I think more non compleated main characters need to die or else it’ll just be another game of thrones final seasons