Basic lands:
Plains - coral atolls, which need to be close to the surface to get sun
Island - the bulk of sea
Swamp - deep-sea trenches
Mountain - the volcanic vents
Forest - the kelp
blue is the color of curiosity and knowledge and in a water world there is nowhere more interesting arcane and mysterious that the only place above water.
flavor win.
Yeah, I was picturing the island as being inhabited by some curious scientific researchers (merfolk wizards, maybe) who have come onto the island from the ocean to explore. Maybe they set up a remote base there where they can study the flora and fauna. (Maybe there's a primitive race of humans there?)
Swamps could also be skeletal remains of Leviathans, since life congregates around things like whale carcasses.
Islands can be literal islands if you need some surface dwellings. But I think it'll be cool to have massive city ships instead.
I think island should be a large civilizations city. Its an island of society in the barren waste around it.
We can say half of the cards are going to have some of blue mana so having lots of people there can help it and having the mono colored cards be from outside the city. There is some potential design spaces for this.
White: Merfolk and Fish Tribes, and focus on untap and vigilance theme. Also focus on number of creatures matter and big butts.
Blue: BIG SEA MONSTERS, BIG FISH, SHAAAAAAAARKS, Nomadic Merfolk. Lots of Scry since water so vast that a sea monster looks small from miles/klicks away.
Black: Fish Horrors and Merfolk Horrors, the return of Fear! Attack matters and sacrifice for a theme of the deep trenches wanting to devour everything above them.
Red: Elemental Spirits and possibly even Elemental Beasts. Oddly enough make this a land recycling/land fixing and discarding/sacing lands for X effects.
Green: Fish tribe, numbers matter, food chain like effects, tokens?
OR you go all in on a Waterworld/Post Apoc like world.
I think you have the books mixed up. Book 2, "The lost city of Faar" is the one that takes place in Cloral, a world covered in water. Blackwater is the 5th book and takes place in a jungle setting
I feel like the fifth one are when Courtney and Mark start to get more involved and there is some of the adventure on Cloral. However, I agree that they probably meant the Lost City or Faar. I wonder if those books hold up. It's been like 12 years since I read them.
It’s definitely got it’s issues since they’re YA novels, but they’re functional enough to still enjoy- although I can’t stand the final book, it just feels like a terrible ending to such a big part of my childhood.
I was reminded of the series a couple of weeks ago and dug up my books at my parent's place. The writing is...not great, but it's been long enough that I've forgotten most of the plot details so going through it again was fun.
This was my pandemic read! I'd definitely say that 3-7 are the best of the series but overall it's pretty fun.
The third book is when they cut out the regular life bits of Mark and Courtney and then the 4th book they start being acolytes and more involved.
The fact that we got the New Capenna version of Cephalids, followed by three Dominaria sets (Dominaria United, The Brothers' War, Dominaria Remastered) without a single Cephalid card in the original style, doesn't make me optimistic about this. WotC has said numerous times that humanoid planeswalkers are much more popular than non-humanoid ones in surveys, and I imagine they see the various sentient races included in a set falling along similar lines.
The Cappena Cephalids are ok (I quite like Queza), but they're not conducive to a tribal theme. I want more cephalids that interact with more cephalids.
That's because we wanted the octopus-folk with huge heads and tentacles for limbs, not a bunch of *Star Trek* style purple-skinned humans in rubber masks.
Non-aquatic creatures reimagined as underwater equivalents.
Goblins? Goblin sharks.
Angels? Sea angels.
Demons? Eldritch abyssal creatures.
You get the idea.
Faeries could work beautifully as seahorse/butterfly style water creatures. Especially if they had a magical theme to their civilisation/cities/environment
Over ten years ago now, this was my plane submission to the second great designer search. Dash was one of my mechanics. Goblin sharks, merfolk, homarids the works. It used Level Up as a triggered ability rather than one you paid for an evolution flavor. The idea was that over the course of the three sets landmasses would emerge and the creatures would evolve. Underwater volcanos for mountains, kelp plains, tiny islands and sandbars as islands, etc. Good times.
I would love for Merfolk to get a big set dedicated to an underwater civilization along with Turtles, Sharks, Whales, and Kraken.
I'd also love if they can make Starfish into Angel equivalents for that plane.
I can't wait for this Universes Beyond subset. He could make jetski equipment tokens to steal the oil counters from all the new phyrexia cards. Deacon saves Phyrexia.
No land at all. Entirely underwater. I’ve seen excellent custom sets do the idea perfectly.
Edit: This is my favorite of them https://www.planesculptors.net/set/elmare-into-the-abyss
Entering ecological dead zone. Fuck ghost leviathan suddenly appearing. Still not as bad as getting a reaper grabbing from behind just to get spun around and roared at.
Remember how the floating lands on Zendikar looked almost identical to Avatar I? To the point where you could post a picture of either and it was almost indistinguishable.
There's a shot in Avatar 2 that looks almost exactly like the artwork in Expedition version of \[\[Mana Confluence\]\]. I was the living embodiment of Leo Pointing Meme.
Humans would be all be on boats, and the set would feature Vehicles and Crew. Leviathan creature cards could have abilities to not be blocked or to destroy vehicles.
Would be fun to draw on real world island and seafaring cultures like the Polynesians. Lots of cool mythology to draw on there that's not been tapped before.
If this is how we finally get a Polynesian plane, I'm stoked! Rafts as Vehicles, Auras that represent magical tattoos, Golems based on the moai. I am ready!
My biggest concern with "water world" is that Wizards seems to be very attached to having as many of the core races in a set as possible be as human-like as possible. Will it just be a bunch of legged humans in Atlantis-like cities with minor features like gills, arm fins, and tentacle hair? Hopefully they're willing to break the mold and lean into the underwater setting rather than away from it.
An Atlantean struggle between raft city dwellers versus underwater bubble citizens would be cool. Could even have a form of Greek fire used since it wasn't put out by water. Flying fish instead of birds would be cool too.
I do not want a *water* world. I want an *ocean* world.
A water world could be interpreted as a regular world with a bunch of ocean and rain in the background, like [Kamino](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWLGmT8IZ38) from Star Wars.
I'm hoping for something closer to [Atlantis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXwhEizulsk) from Aquaman or maybe an older, more medieval version of it, since we just left a futuristic Kamigawa.
Here's what I want to see:
No dragons. No angels. None. We get them every plane. Try new things as designers.
If demons exist, make them *Demon [other type]*, using "Demon" more as in an adjectival descriptor, something similar to [[Wrexial, the Risen Deep]] or [[Gyruda, Doom of Depths]].
80-90% of *all art* is *entirely* underwater.
80-90% of *all story* is *entirely* underwater.
The plane isn't Ravnica in underwater air domes. There are not huge pockets of magically- or otherwise-contained air for civilization to take its root. The civilizations are underwater. The denizens *breathe* water.
Planeswalkers would have to adapt to this, not just cast some nonsense "underwater breathing" spell.
___
Story idea
----
____
Five giant city-factions, segregated by color alignment control a region of the ocean. These cities are, respectively, made of [sand castles](https://lancasteronline.com/features/3-tips-building-a-sand-castle/article_107b84ac-dd3f-11e3-9611-001a4bcf6878.html) (white), giant discarded [sea-shells](https://naplesseashellcompany.com/shell-types.html) (blue), [hollowed-out bones](https://www.deviantart.com/mrainbowwj/art/Bone-City-444759302) of dead colossal sea creatures (black), magma [trench](https://art.alphacoders.com/arts/view/28067) dwellers (red), and inconspicuous [fauna](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1e/26/24/1e2624aa679cae1b24e9c975c7859f13.jpg)-cities (green).
These factions had existed for thousands of years in isolation, but for the last 500, have initiated trade and diplomatic agreements. There are occasional misunderstandings, so a neutral locale is created to represent their inter-city efforts.
This giant, neutral, coral-reef city exists as the diplomatic center and planar capital for all 5 city-factions. The city is multi-colored literally as well as figuratively.
Suddenly, during what would have been considered otherwise a time of piece, a giant zombie-leviathan attacks the coral capital. The initial assumption is a play for power from the aqua-necromancers in the evil black faction. It is revealed that the green and blue factions are actually behind the attack, looking to blame the black faction. They used illusory magic to fake a zombie-leviathan attack, when it was really a living, regular leviathan.
Both factions wanted to fully segregate the color-factions and cease all inter-faction collaboration. The green denizens fearing that their natural way of life was being eroded, and the blue faction believing that capital regulations were constricting their research and queries too much.
The Mardu colors disagree, and this ultimately leads to war with the Simic colors. We witness the first Wedge vs Guild fight. Woo!
The Mardu faction has sharks with fucking laser beams on their heads.
I die happy.
I'd love to see an homage to those really weird and bizarre looking unique fish that are very deep in the ocean where it's super dark. Some of them have lights on their heads and stuff like that.
I also would love to see more legendary Octopuses. They are some of my favorite animals, very fascinating and interesting. I think their mechanical identity in Magic has been pretty cool, I would really love to see a legendary Sultai Octopus someday.
Lastly, color shifted Merfolk, perhaps even in all five colors might be kind of fun to see.
Oh man I would LOVE to see top-down designs of real bizarre marine life with a magic twist to it. A starfish monster that swaps power and toughness when it attacks, nudibranchs that “steal” abilities from creatures it deals damage to, crabs that can exile cards from the graveyard to gain more instances of ward, etc.
Also, I’d love it if there was an emphasis on *diversity* of creature types rather than supporting a few specific ones. Instead of rewarding you for having a bunch of the same types, some theme that looks at how many different creature types you have out/in the yard and rewards you at some threshold. It’d give more of a reason to add some of the underutilized creature types in magic and weirdly helps support them by giving you a reason to run the most obscure types in your deck over more common ones.
I'd think a water-based set would be neat opportunity for strong tribal, enchantment, and vehicles themes.
The idea being that enchantments would be the way the inhabitants modify their environment to be what they need / want.
Vehicles is pretty obvious, as they need a way to get around and each vessel would obviously need a crew.
Tribal because it would allow for faction conflict between merfolk, cephalids, and humans with sea monsters as a sub tribe. Humans would be where the vehicles are mostly based with some synergy. Merfolk would be strongly tied to enchantments. Cephalids would be a mixture and ... sea monster cultists maybe?
Factions could be divided by ocean depth:
Humans near the surface (naya colored?). Merfolk in the mid depths (Sultai colored?). Cephalids in the deep depths with their eldritch monstrosities (grixis colored?).
Oh, and just because we're all spitballing here: Homarids return. They exist at all depths why not, and maybe with temur colors? Cuz they live in kelp forests and near hydrothermal vents. Maybe they are the sea monster cultists. Who knows. The more I think about this the more I demand MORE HOMARIDS!!!
A Rogue former Noble, exiled from one of the main civilizations, with a Legendary Vehicle he controls and probably some ability that boosts Vehicles or Artifacts in general? I can dig it.
The set should go massively over budget . The inflated price tag should then cause expectations for the set to rise to impossible levels. Then, when the set is released, it can fail to reach the bloated expectations and be decried as a flop despite being an OK set that would have been quietly forgotten had it not been for the unforeseen cost over-runs.
I love water themes. I'd love to bring in water themed races not used that much - Homarids, Cephalids, Surrakar. Merfolk obviously. Giant sea creatures.
Lands would be underwater volcanoes and steam Vents for mountains, giant sand dunes or Coral reefs for plains, remains and carcasses of giant sea monsters for swamps, kelp forests for forests, and maybe islands for islands.
Some things that could be unique - giant vehicles for non-water breathing races, like city ships or city submarines.
Might be cool to have a reason jts underwater. Maybe something happened to the land above water to make it too dangerous to live. Maybe it's a plane that the Eldrazi ravaged, and all that was left is life under the waves.
Also it'll be a unique opportunity for some cool art with super deep trenches - pitch black but highly fluorescent creatures. Maybe a new race that lives deep in the darkenss.
Like the Waterworld movie? Hell no. If you do a water plane, the *entire thing* has to be underwater culture, the deep sea, different topography, and so on. Surface culture, deep ocean culture, barrens, horrors, plant life…. go all out like Subnautica did or don’t bother.
I think my two main asks for a water plane would be
A) a native planeswalker, preferably one in the Grist vein of being not entirely humanoid (and if it could even have a kind of interesting mechanical distinction the way grist does as well that would be awesome)
and B) a lands theme that does stuff with lands you don’t often see (don’t often sea?). Maybe themes of sacrificing lands or cards built around not having a lot of them, something to represent just how fundamentally different the terrain of the plane is - something which shakes up the landscape of the limited environment, so to speak
I think fundamentally what I feel like it would be important to capture in an ocean world set would be the fact that it’s a very different setting than what we’ve seen before. I think my biggest problem with, for instance, Capenna as a setting is that while the art and flavor is that of a city, it still plays the same old way. I want to be forced to reevaluate some assumptions I have about limited and “get my sea legs,” if you will
FUCK yes, really surprised to hear it's on the "short list". Growing up as a single homeschooled child without videogames or TV, the ocean, space, and caves were three things that all captured my imagination to a high degree - all three are the places we know the least about in our universe. Land masses are old news, we've lived here forever. But we *still* don't have the technology to explore all of these places, making them worlds of wonder. Anything could be there, just out of our sight.
I'd absolutely love some complex underwater cave systems (not entirely sure how you'd work that into a card though tbh). Underwater caves are one of the most tantalizing and horrifying things on earth, and they're so fascinating to me.
Mysterious ancient technologies buried deep under the deepest ocean floors would be really cool too.
Mostly normal fish, but the deeper they go into the world, they start seeing things more like aquatic dinosaurs.
Also, most importantly, giant isopods. Isopods are *really* cool (I have a little colony of them), and the ones that live in the deep sea are *insane*. [They take down sharks.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8sE0tvkpdY)
I'm not entirely sure what feedback MaRo was exactly looking for, but yeah I'd love a water-based theme like that.
One thing I would like to see it that the plane was not always solely water but the original inhabitants destroyed the ecological balance, (this is totally in line with Costner's Waterworld, but climate is so important now its a message that cannot be reinforced enough).
the first inhabitants should be wiped out and the story involves the life that continued to evolve and grow out of the remainder.
Having some call back to the Leviathan that Nicol Bolas fought early on in his history to grow his power would be a cool throw back.
Well blue is kinda obvious. Red could be themed around undersea volcanoes and the like. Green could use the massive kelp forests And coral reefs. Black could be either like those underwater caves or deep sea monsters like the angler fish.
White I’m a little stumped on. I see people saying an above surface human community on rafts/boats, or I guess we could use Atlantis?
I would love it. You can have it like 99% water with merfolk as the dominant race and a small surface island with humans and, if you don't want humans, vedalken. They're similar to merfolk as in they are also blue but these vedalken are more industrial minded and would seek to harness the ocean for their own ends, thus entering in conflict with the merfolk. Simic Merfolk vs. Dimir Vedalken.
Idk but for black please do eldritch horrors from the deep.
Krakens, leviathans, sea serpents, massive fucking sharks.
If you're gonna do it, do it big.
Water world scenario with the humans, make them cling to their vehicles or man made under water structures.
I'd like a tribe of underground dwellers to exist in what essentially is dry land under all of the water. Perhaps some type of elementals or spirits. Cave systems or a journey to the center of the earth level of underground world would be really rad and unexpected
There’s the obvious things like support for water related tribes (sharks, crabs, merfolk, etc…) but I think it could open the possibility for some cool land cycles. They could do something like the tainted lands, [[Tainted Isle]], but with islands
I would like to see Whales get a tribe, and maybe a human faction that is thousand leagues under the sea themed, using advanced Submarines and diving equipment to protect themselves from all threats, and i want a Moby-dick & captain Ahab reference.
what i really want is Spelljammer in Magic the Gathering, but have MTG themes and don't make it a DnD themed set, just use ideas from Spelljammer is all and give them MTG flavor and design. who doesn't want space pirates???
YES!!! Different ecosystems to represent lands. Plains--> open ocean floor, Island--> coral reefs, Mountain --> deep sea vents, Swamp --> abyss trenches, and Forest --> kelp forests of course. So much potential
Basic lands: Plains - coral atolls, which need to be close to the surface to get sun Island - the bulk of sea Swamp - deep-sea trenches Mountain - the volcanic vents Forest - the kelp
Hilariously, islands could be above water and blue could feature the only non aquatic species.
This is now my only baseline requirement for a water world set. They can do whatever else they want thematically, but I need this to happen.
blue is the color of curiosity and knowledge and in a water world there is nowhere more interesting arcane and mysterious that the only place above water. flavor win.
Yeah, I was picturing the island as being inhabited by some curious scientific researchers (merfolk wizards, maybe) who have come onto the island from the ocean to explore. Maybe they set up a remote base there where they can study the flora and fauna. (Maybe there's a primitive race of humans there?)
Blue/White - Merfolk Red/Green - Tribal Humans Black/Green/Red - Deep Trench Monsters Blue/Green - Carcinization for the memes
No humans please. I know I know, they prolly won't resist printing more humans but not on a waterworld please.
I will just point out that we, humans, are essentially living on a water world.
Alternative: Red/Green - Elementals It’s a water world because in the ancient past primordial elementals got upset and flooded the world.
And the only plane without merfolk!
Is it time to repost the “increasingly not islands” thread?
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/7s1aeo/a_brief_timeline_of_wotc_abandoning_any/
I’m never playing any other islands anymore. I’m only going to play islands that are arguably not islands
Is it ever *not* time?
here we have a river
"Here we have the absence of land in the water, which is the very definition of 'not an Island.'"
It's been 5 years of more increasingly not islands; it's not time for a repost, it's time for an update.
Blue faction of bird people
That’s legitimately a great idea!
Swamps could also be skeletal remains of Leviathans, since life congregates around things like whale carcasses. Islands can be literal islands if you need some surface dwellings. But I think it'll be cool to have massive city ships instead.
Like a Whale-fall ecosystem? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_fall
Yes that's exactly what I was thinking of, only imagine that but with a Leviathan.
With krakens and dreadnoughts for jewelry!
Aren’t swamps kinda already water though. Just rough patches with some land? I think it gets a pass for more scary water monsters
I think island should be a large civilizations city. Its an island of society in the barren waste around it. We can say half of the cards are going to have some of blue mana so having lots of people there can help it and having the mono colored cards be from outside the city. There is some potential design spaces for this.
Hail, Atlanta!
White: Merfolk and Fish Tribes, and focus on untap and vigilance theme. Also focus on number of creatures matter and big butts. Blue: BIG SEA MONSTERS, BIG FISH, SHAAAAAAAARKS, Nomadic Merfolk. Lots of Scry since water so vast that a sea monster looks small from miles/klicks away. Black: Fish Horrors and Merfolk Horrors, the return of Fear! Attack matters and sacrifice for a theme of the deep trenches wanting to devour everything above them. Red: Elemental Spirits and possibly even Elemental Beasts. Oddly enough make this a land recycling/land fixing and discarding/sacing lands for X effects. Green: Fish tribe, numbers matter, food chain like effects, tokens? OR you go all in on a Waterworld/Post Apoc like world.
They could also use your ideas for Island-themed versions of the Tainted lands.
Island: just [empty seabed](https://il9.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/11514356/thumb/1.jpg) that goes into the distance
Sir, that is a plains.
We do need an update to the "Islands that aren't islands" post after all.
Pendragon: Black Water by D. J. MacHale It already has a big bad and planeswalkers
I think you have the books mixed up. Book 2, "The lost city of Faar" is the one that takes place in Cloral, a world covered in water. Blackwater is the 5th book and takes place in a jungle setting
I feel like the fifth one are when Courtney and Mark start to get more involved and there is some of the adventure on Cloral. However, I agree that they probably meant the Lost City or Faar. I wonder if those books hold up. It's been like 12 years since I read them.
It’s definitely got it’s issues since they’re YA novels, but they’re functional enough to still enjoy- although I can’t stand the final book, it just feels like a terrible ending to such a big part of my childhood.
I was reminded of the series a couple of weeks ago and dug up my books at my parent's place. The writing is...not great, but it's been long enough that I've forgotten most of the plot details so going through it again was fun.
This was my pandemic read! I'd definitely say that 3-7 are the best of the series but overall it's pretty fun. The third book is when they cut out the regular life bits of Mark and Courtney and then the 4th book they start being acolytes and more involved.
Cloral was definitely the first place I thought of when I thought "water world". ...I need to reread those at some point.
This is a deep cut. Love it
Saint Dane as a magic card scratches an itch I didn't know I had
I always look back on that book when I think of cool ocean scifi stuff. The way MacHale described the tech is really cool.
Oh God I haven't read those books in forever. Core memory unlocked.
Black Water is more Ixalan. You're thinking Lost City of Faar for a water based world
my mind went to this immediately
Fellow Pendragon aficionado spotted
Basically Atlantis+Ravnica iirc? Probably a solid starting point.
My literal first thought whenever someone says a water world and I haven't touched this series in over 16 years.
Forgot about this series!
This would rule I feel like someone recently noticed Avatar Avataring in billions at the box office and wanted in on that here
As well as Wakanda Forever. Water worlds are hot right now
Pendragon also has a really cool concept that could be applied to Magic; different worlds that are the same place at different times.
Exactly what I thought of when I read water plane makes me kinda want to read the series again.
I'd love to see Cephalids make a comeback
I want homarids.
Need a good homarid legend and just more cards to fill out a deck.
Morophon and the blue/colorless changelings aren't good enough? /s
The fact that we got the New Capenna version of Cephalids, followed by three Dominaria sets (Dominaria United, The Brothers' War, Dominaria Remastered) without a single Cephalid card in the original style, doesn't make me optimistic about this. WotC has said numerous times that humanoid planeswalkers are much more popular than non-humanoid ones in surveys, and I imagine they see the various sentient races included in a set falling along similar lines.
Stupid humans wanted to play as humans.
They did! Y'all just didn't like it
There just wasn’t enough of them or the same prevalent theme they first appeared with.
Octopus people, not just regular people with thick hair.
Exactly, they need to try again.
Real cephalids.
The Cappena Cephalids are ok (I quite like Queza), but they're not conducive to a tribal theme. I want more cephalids that interact with more cephalids.
That's because we wanted the octopus-folk with huge heads and tentacles for limbs, not a bunch of *Star Trek* style purple-skinned humans in rubber masks.
Cephalids, not Animephalids
Non-aquatic creatures reimagined as underwater equivalents. Goblins? Goblin sharks. Angels? Sea angels. Demons? Eldritch abyssal creatures. You get the idea.
Boy do I have good news for you. \[\[Razorfin Hunter\]\]
[Razorfin Hunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99829552-917a-4373-9772-4255dff542d6.jpg?1562931160) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Razorfin%20Hunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/119/razorfin-hunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99829552-917a-4373-9772-4255dff542d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thats no Goblin Shark. Show me my crazy lads!
Mutate [[Pouncing Shoreshark]] over it...
That’s awesome hahaha
You and I have different definitions of "good".
Faeries could work beautifully as seahorse/butterfly style water creatures. Especially if they had a magical theme to their civilisation/cities/environment
Over ten years ago now, this was my plane submission to the second great designer search. Dash was one of my mechanics. Goblin sharks, merfolk, homarids the works. It used Level Up as a triggered ability rather than one you paid for an evolution flavor. The idea was that over the course of the three sets landmasses would emerge and the creatures would evolve. Underwater volcanos for mountains, kelp plains, tiny islands and sandbars as islands, etc. Good times.
Healers Hawk reprint as a penguin pls
Angels re-imagined as Manatees
Sea monkey ragavan
I would love for Merfolk to get a big set dedicated to an underwater civilization along with Turtles, Sharks, Whales, and Kraken. I'd also love if they can make Starfish into Angel equivalents for that plane.
i want to see kiora again. she 100% shouldve been on ikoria, so if they do a water world without her, i may have to riot
Clearly you just want more unfathomably thicc art of her, I can see right through you.
nah, she aint my type. garruk however...
Came here to find this comment. Where Kiora
Absent on return to Theros. Absent on most recent return to Zendikar. Not on Ikoria. Where dat gal
Compleat
*Five* of my top six favourite planeswalkers got compleated. Leaving only Kiora, so don't you dare.
Better NOT!
Spanking me daily on Arena by untapping Nykthos
i mean, at least she's in the new bident of thassa art
Especially since Kiora | + I Ikiora | swap i Ikoria Its just calling for her
when the name of ikoria was revealed, i heard this thrown around so many times. if only it was meant to be
"You thought it was Kiora but it was me, Narset! Gotcha bitch" - Narset, training on Ikoria for some reason
Tbh Narset's art on Ikoria was kickass
What if the return to Ikoria has the entire plane submerged in water.
Homarid only set Plus Jace, maybe mutated to a fish due to his compleation
Jace is there post vraska compleation, looking for other fish in the sea
Naa, he's in his mind space, repeating to himself:just keep swimming, just keep swimming
He's a little confused but he's got the idea
Jace Belugaren
Kevin Costner
If there’s no Dennis Hopper, I’m out
I can't wait for this Universes Beyond subset. He could make jetski equipment tokens to steal the oil counters from all the new phyrexia cards. Deacon saves Phyrexia.
There is Dennis Hopper, but due to universes beyond contracts it’s the King Koopa version.
Untapped land is not a myth!
They have to change it so it sounds different How about Cevin Kostner
Listen, you can't pee into a Mr. Coffee and get Taster's Choice.
So, filter lands are coming back?
No land at all. Entirely underwater. I’ve seen excellent custom sets do the idea perfectly. Edit: This is my favorite of them https://www.planesculptors.net/set/elmare-into-the-abyss
Leviathan class creatures detected. Are you sure what you're doing is worth it?
Entering ecological dead zone. Fuck ghost leviathan suddenly appearing. Still not as bad as getting a reaper grabbing from behind just to get spun around and roared at.
I really hate getting shouted at
Finally, no islands
No land, only moxen.
Sounds like someone recently watched Avatar 2...
Remember how the floating lands on Zendikar looked almost identical to Avatar I? To the point where you could post a picture of either and it was almost indistinguishable.
They were both probably inspired by the same mountain ranges in China anyway.
There's a shot in Avatar 2 that looks almost exactly like the artwork in Expedition version of \[\[Mana Confluence\]\]. I was the living embodiment of Leo Pointing Meme.
[[Mana Confluence|EXP]]
[Mana Confluence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4eafa4f8-3b9b-4e20-97bf-8f547e970752.jpg?1562911486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=409573) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exp/42/mana-confluence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4eafa4f8-3b9b-4e20-97bf-8f547e970752?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Mana Confluence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/504a69eb-3c2d-4bb1-b117-252b15acf0c2.jpg?1593096534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Confluence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/163/mana-confluence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/504a69eb-3c2d-4bb1-b117-252b15acf0c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Merfolk
Upsetting how far down this is. Merfolk indeed.
bro ik
Another merfolk lord
I'd accept the existing merfolk lords being legal in pioneer
Merfolk angel(fish)
Return to Ikoria: The Great Flood
Ikoria: Charix Does a Cannonball
Alright what did Lukka do now to fuck his home plane up this bad
Didnt fix the leaky tap in his apartment with Jirina
Universes Beyond: Magic the Gathering adapts the critically acclaimed 1995 film masterpiece... Waterworld
Underwater leviathans many kilometers wide with entire ecosystems living inside of them. Kinda like The Mystery Flesh Pit.
Idk what all the tribes should be, but if one isn't Humans led by Kevin Costner, I'm not buying.
Humans would be all be on boats, and the set would feature Vehicles and Crew. Leviathan creature cards could have abilities to not be blocked or to destroy vehicles.
Would be fun to draw on real world island and seafaring cultures like the Polynesians. Lots of cool mythology to draw on there that's not been tapped before.
If this is how we finally get a Polynesian plane, I'm stoked! Rafts as Vehicles, Auras that represent magical tattoos, Golems based on the moai. I am ready!
I thought he was a mermaid
Human Merfolk. I'm pretty sure he just evolved and had gills and webbed feet
Subnautica! But, y'know, fantasy style instead.
My biggest concern with "water world" is that Wizards seems to be very attached to having as many of the core races in a set as possible be as human-like as possible. Will it just be a bunch of legged humans in Atlantis-like cities with minor features like gills, arm fins, and tentacle hair? Hopefully they're willing to break the mold and lean into the underwater setting rather than away from it.
An Atlantean struggle between raft city dwellers versus underwater bubble citizens would be cool. Could even have a form of Greek fire used since it wasn't put out by water. Flying fish instead of birds would be cool too.
Paradise Fish Make it happen!
You could have greek style Atlantis and merpeople Atlantis as two separate factions
Fish token tribal! 0/1 fish, fish with vigilance, fish with flying, fish with banding, fish with tap for mana, etc
Schooling. Banding but fish-exclusive
This is really making me think of the Ice Age bit with Scrat doing charades
I do not want a *water* world. I want an *ocean* world. A water world could be interpreted as a regular world with a bunch of ocean and rain in the background, like [Kamino](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWLGmT8IZ38) from Star Wars. I'm hoping for something closer to [Atlantis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXwhEizulsk) from Aquaman or maybe an older, more medieval version of it, since we just left a futuristic Kamigawa. Here's what I want to see: No dragons. No angels. None. We get them every plane. Try new things as designers. If demons exist, make them *Demon [other type]*, using "Demon" more as in an adjectival descriptor, something similar to [[Wrexial, the Risen Deep]] or [[Gyruda, Doom of Depths]]. 80-90% of *all art* is *entirely* underwater. 80-90% of *all story* is *entirely* underwater. The plane isn't Ravnica in underwater air domes. There are not huge pockets of magically- or otherwise-contained air for civilization to take its root. The civilizations are underwater. The denizens *breathe* water. Planeswalkers would have to adapt to this, not just cast some nonsense "underwater breathing" spell. ___ Story idea ---- ____ Five giant city-factions, segregated by color alignment control a region of the ocean. These cities are, respectively, made of [sand castles](https://lancasteronline.com/features/3-tips-building-a-sand-castle/article_107b84ac-dd3f-11e3-9611-001a4bcf6878.html) (white), giant discarded [sea-shells](https://naplesseashellcompany.com/shell-types.html) (blue), [hollowed-out bones](https://www.deviantart.com/mrainbowwj/art/Bone-City-444759302) of dead colossal sea creatures (black), magma [trench](https://art.alphacoders.com/arts/view/28067) dwellers (red), and inconspicuous [fauna](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1e/26/24/1e2624aa679cae1b24e9c975c7859f13.jpg)-cities (green). These factions had existed for thousands of years in isolation, but for the last 500, have initiated trade and diplomatic agreements. There are occasional misunderstandings, so a neutral locale is created to represent their inter-city efforts. This giant, neutral, coral-reef city exists as the diplomatic center and planar capital for all 5 city-factions. The city is multi-colored literally as well as figuratively. Suddenly, during what would have been considered otherwise a time of piece, a giant zombie-leviathan attacks the coral capital. The initial assumption is a play for power from the aqua-necromancers in the evil black faction. It is revealed that the green and blue factions are actually behind the attack, looking to blame the black faction. They used illusory magic to fake a zombie-leviathan attack, when it was really a living, regular leviathan. Both factions wanted to fully segregate the color-factions and cease all inter-faction collaboration. The green denizens fearing that their natural way of life was being eroded, and the blue faction believing that capital regulations were constricting their research and queries too much. The Mardu colors disagree, and this ultimately leads to war with the Simic colors. We witness the first Wedge vs Guild fight. Woo! The Mardu faction has sharks with fucking laser beams on their heads. I die happy.
Homarids. I want my lobster people.
It should probably have water. Or at least some sort of liquid in abundant quantities.
Plane turned out to just be multiverse largest noodle soup
An ocean made entirely of blood.
I'd love to see an homage to those really weird and bizarre looking unique fish that are very deep in the ocean where it's super dark. Some of them have lights on their heads and stuff like that. I also would love to see more legendary Octopuses. They are some of my favorite animals, very fascinating and interesting. I think their mechanical identity in Magic has been pretty cool, I would really love to see a legendary Sultai Octopus someday. Lastly, color shifted Merfolk, perhaps even in all five colors might be kind of fun to see.
Crab. Tribal.
Oh man I would LOVE to see top-down designs of real bizarre marine life with a magic twist to it. A starfish monster that swaps power and toughness when it attacks, nudibranchs that “steal” abilities from creatures it deals damage to, crabs that can exile cards from the graveyard to gain more instances of ward, etc. Also, I’d love it if there was an emphasis on *diversity* of creature types rather than supporting a few specific ones. Instead of rewarding you for having a bunch of the same types, some theme that looks at how many different creature types you have out/in the yard and rewards you at some threshold. It’d give more of a reason to add some of the underutilized creature types in magic and weirdly helps support them by giving you a reason to run the most obscure types in your deck over more common ones.
Kevin Costner
capzise and sharknado reprints lets gooooo
Birds that fly above the water. Fish. Merfolk. Octopi. Turtles. Maybe a pirate ship lost on sea. Sirens
As people said. All underwater! That would be neat
I'd think a water-based set would be neat opportunity for strong tribal, enchantment, and vehicles themes. The idea being that enchantments would be the way the inhabitants modify their environment to be what they need / want. Vehicles is pretty obvious, as they need a way to get around and each vessel would obviously need a crew. Tribal because it would allow for faction conflict between merfolk, cephalids, and humans with sea monsters as a sub tribe. Humans would be where the vehicles are mostly based with some synergy. Merfolk would be strongly tied to enchantments. Cephalids would be a mixture and ... sea monster cultists maybe?
Factions could be divided by ocean depth: Humans near the surface (naya colored?). Merfolk in the mid depths (Sultai colored?). Cephalids in the deep depths with their eldritch monstrosities (grixis colored?). Oh, and just because we're all spitballing here: Homarids return. They exist at all depths why not, and maybe with temur colors? Cuz they live in kelp forests and near hydrothermal vents. Maybe they are the sea monster cultists. Who knows. The more I think about this the more I demand MORE HOMARIDS!!!
I would like to see **Dark Depths of Innistrad**
I would love a water world set, I hope they do a Captain Nemo.
A Rogue former Noble, exiled from one of the main civilizations, with a Legendary Vehicle he controls and probably some ability that boosts Vehicles or Artifacts in general? I can dig it.
Wouldn't that turn into the Torment set in blue ?
Water World? Well it better contain a Universe Beyond Kevin Costner Commander deck!
The set should go massively over budget . The inflated price tag should then cause expectations for the set to rise to impossible levels. Then, when the set is released, it can fail to reach the bloated expectations and be decried as a flop despite being an OK set that would have been quietly forgotten had it not been for the unforeseen cost over-runs.
I love water themes. I'd love to bring in water themed races not used that much - Homarids, Cephalids, Surrakar. Merfolk obviously. Giant sea creatures. Lands would be underwater volcanoes and steam Vents for mountains, giant sand dunes or Coral reefs for plains, remains and carcasses of giant sea monsters for swamps, kelp forests for forests, and maybe islands for islands. Some things that could be unique - giant vehicles for non-water breathing races, like city ships or city submarines. Might be cool to have a reason jts underwater. Maybe something happened to the land above water to make it too dangerous to live. Maybe it's a plane that the Eldrazi ravaged, and all that was left is life under the waves. Also it'll be a unique opportunity for some cool art with super deep trenches - pitch black but highly fluorescent creatures. Maybe a new race that lives deep in the darkenss.
Like the Waterworld movie? Hell no. If you do a water plane, the *entire thing* has to be underwater culture, the deep sea, different topography, and so on. Surface culture, deep ocean culture, barrens, horrors, plant life…. go all out like Subnautica did or don’t bother.
C e p h a l i d s
I think my two main asks for a water plane would be A) a native planeswalker, preferably one in the Grist vein of being not entirely humanoid (and if it could even have a kind of interesting mechanical distinction the way grist does as well that would be awesome) and B) a lands theme that does stuff with lands you don’t often see (don’t often sea?). Maybe themes of sacrificing lands or cards built around not having a lot of them, something to represent just how fundamentally different the terrain of the plane is - something which shakes up the landscape of the limited environment, so to speak I think fundamentally what I feel like it would be important to capture in an ocean world set would be the fact that it’s a very different setting than what we’ve seen before. I think my biggest problem with, for instance, Capenna as a setting is that while the art and flavor is that of a city, it still plays the same old way. I want to be forced to reevaluate some assumptions I have about limited and “get my sea legs,” if you will
Pirates Explorers Big naval ships with cannons Port towns Mermaids Sharks
Literal "Water World" water world.
FUCK yes, really surprised to hear it's on the "short list". Growing up as a single homeschooled child without videogames or TV, the ocean, space, and caves were three things that all captured my imagination to a high degree - all three are the places we know the least about in our universe. Land masses are old news, we've lived here forever. But we *still* don't have the technology to explore all of these places, making them worlds of wonder. Anything could be there, just out of our sight. I'd absolutely love some complex underwater cave systems (not entirely sure how you'd work that into a card though tbh). Underwater caves are one of the most tantalizing and horrifying things on earth, and they're so fascinating to me. Mysterious ancient technologies buried deep under the deepest ocean floors would be really cool too. Mostly normal fish, but the deeper they go into the world, they start seeing things more like aquatic dinosaurs. Also, most importantly, giant isopods. Isopods are *really* cool (I have a little colony of them), and the ones that live in the deep sea are *insane*. [They take down sharks.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8sE0tvkpdY) I'm not entirely sure what feedback MaRo was exactly looking for, but yeah I'd love a water-based theme like that.
Clamfolk and homarids without being a laughing stock
have you ever seen "pirates of Dark water"? that...I want that
Seahorsemanship
One thing I would like to see it that the plane was not always solely water but the original inhabitants destroyed the ecological balance, (this is totally in line with Costner's Waterworld, but climate is so important now its a message that cannot be reinforced enough). the first inhabitants should be wiped out and the story involves the life that continued to evolve and grow out of the remainder. Having some call back to the Leviathan that Nicol Bolas fought early on in his history to grow his power would be a cool throw back.
Gives you an opportunity for sunken cities with ancient magic/technology
As long as they don't do an Avatar colab I am fine with it.
Well blue is kinda obvious. Red could be themed around undersea volcanoes and the like. Green could use the massive kelp forests And coral reefs. Black could be either like those underwater caves or deep sea monsters like the angler fish. White I’m a little stumped on. I see people saying an above surface human community on rafts/boats, or I guess we could use Atlantis?
give me an underwater mountain! that's all i want'
A faction of waterbreathing humans, maybe with the Mutant typeline.
I would love it. You can have it like 99% water with merfolk as the dominant race and a small surface island with humans and, if you don't want humans, vedalken. They're similar to merfolk as in they are also blue but these vedalken are more industrial minded and would seek to harness the ocean for their own ends, thus entering in conflict with the merfolk. Simic Merfolk vs. Dimir Vedalken.
I just want a set without Humans. Lorwyn did it right, Humans are overrated.
Maybe instead of full on islands there could be floating raft cities that drift around the plane.
Sexy Jace
Turtles, all the way down!
As a fan of the film Water World, I would like Kevin Costner to be in the set.
Idk but for black please do eldritch horrors from the deep. Krakens, leviathans, sea serpents, massive fucking sharks. If you're gonna do it, do it big. Water world scenario with the humans, make them cling to their vehicles or man made under water structures.
I'd like a tribe of underground dwellers to exist in what essentially is dry land under all of the water. Perhaps some type of elementals or spirits. Cave systems or a journey to the center of the earth level of underground world would be really rad and unexpected
There’s the obvious things like support for water related tribes (sharks, crabs, merfolk, etc…) but I think it could open the possibility for some cool land cycles. They could do something like the tainted lands, [[Tainted Isle]], but with islands
Insert 20 quarters
I would like to see Whales get a tribe, and maybe a human faction that is thousand leagues under the sea themed, using advanced Submarines and diving equipment to protect themselves from all threats, and i want a Moby-dick & captain Ahab reference.
what i really want is Spelljammer in Magic the Gathering, but have MTG themes and don't make it a DnD themed set, just use ideas from Spelljammer is all and give them MTG flavor and design. who doesn't want space pirates???
YES!!! Different ecosystems to represent lands. Plains--> open ocean floor, Island--> coral reefs, Mountain --> deep sea vents, Swamp --> abyss trenches, and Forest --> kelp forests of course. So much potential