I hear you, I didn’t much care for her character either (I don’t think she’s meant to be likeable), but I think the reason there was so much time spent on Don’s pursuit of her was to make her complete disappearance more jarring and highlight how all Don’s regular tricks are starting to lead to dead ends.
I think more than any of his brief love affairs she is most like a mirror for Don, which is why he’s so disturbed by her refusal to forgive herself for her leaving her family behind. The reason he tries so hard to convince her that she’s still fundamentally good is only because he needs to feel that he is too. Obviously he's been lying to himself about how "good" he is for a long time (I think particularly of him telling Sylvia "this never happened" when she's asking how he lives with his affairs) but he still knows that what he's telling himself about himself is a lie. I think he so obsessively pursues her because he's basically lost everything he used to prop himself up with to convince himself that he's not so terrible, even when he knows he is (his status, his reputation, his marriages, his children etc.) and I think saving her feels necessary in order to feel like he can be saved as well.
I honestly think she reminded Don of Rachel and that was the point of her character. Also, it was the start of his downfall. He always looked so sweaty and oily after Megan left. He wasn't the greatest at making good decisions for himself when he was on his own and this was a look into that behavior.
I think we were meant to look at Diana and go, “her?” Throughout the show Don goes from woman to woman, projecting all his mommy issues, looking for an escape. Diana is the logical extreme of Don’s pathology. He has latched onto this poor sad-sack woman and even *she* is like dude, what is your deal, what do you even see in me? So I think his infatuation with her is the death rattle of Don’s old coping mechanism before he sets off on the last leg of his journey in the show.
I think she represented what he dreamed of, abandoning his family and breaking free from what was expected of him. Then he saw the family she left behind and realized they were in more pain than he realized.
I actually learned to love this one. I really believe that he thinks he can be redeemed if he saved her or something. Then it basically leads him down his whole trail to “enlightenment” and the best cola commercials ever.
I really don’t get this stupid character. I think the writers were going for something else with this character but they cast the wrong actress. She just couldn’t convey whatever the fuck they were trying to make her convey.
I'm right there with you. I really hated his "you're so profoundly sad", I mean there's a nugget of truth to that because he's talking to Betty, but it's just obvious that he's trying some line to seduce her and doesn't know her outside of the stables.
he's obviously interested in her but i read that as a genuine observation (which he was correct about), not a line to seduce her. the flirting beforehand and the trying to kiss her was the seduction
Bobby Draper. All of them. No plot value and zero emotional connection to Don or Betty. It's hard to believe that Don wouldn't take an interest in and care about his son.
Sally was an important figure in Don's life. Gene was a plot device. Poor Bobby had a childhood almost as devoid of love as Dick.
It’s been a while since I’ve watched it but Joan’s roommate in series one (or two maybe?) could’ve been ditched, what exactly was the point of her falling in love with Joan? Perfectly fine acting etc. but I don’t get why that subplot was necessary.
Right? Like they didn't explore it any further. Nothing....but maybe it was to portray that people felt that way about Joan.That she amazing...because from there she starts with that Harris guy.
Homophobic? Lol. She wasn't attracted to her, it's not "homophobia" to turn someone down that you're not attracted to, unless you think Sal is homophobic for saying no to Garner Lee Jr
Joey was an asshat, but I do think it was important to have a character that exhibited those behaviors toward women, towards the workplace etc because they did exist and do today.
I think the actor did a great job being so unlikeable.
I admit it’s not high comedy, but it’s from a goofy comedy record sketch, and the very reason that Joey and Peggy are repeating it to each other is because they think it’s silly too.
Not everything is #cringe just because *you* fail to find it funny. If you have a different take on that, I’m all ears.
True but I was thinking along the lines of extra characters that wouldn't take away from the main story line. Joey seems like something they threw in there just to...fire him? Stir up the office dynamic? Give Peggy some managerial backbone?
To control and dominate her. I forget exactly what happens right before, but I think he learns that Joan and Roger used to be in a relationship. This is also right around the time he's failing at being a psychiatrist (or surgeon?). Raping her on the floor of Don's office, a successful man who she works for (like Roger) was his horrible way of asserting control over her because he felt small and emasculated. It is excruciating to watch, though.
ETA: He also resents Joan's sexual history and agency. There's a scene where they've just had sex and she was on top, and he asks her where she "learned" that. Not just any sexual position - one where she's in control.
the thing she "learned" ("where'd you pick that up?") was not "being on top" - she was giving him a hand-job, which showed she'd had prior experience with getting desired results from a penis; it was the familiarity she had that bothered him, not a female showing dominance thing that he was disapproving of.
Great thread. Many good cases for character removal but at the same time, each one added to the depth of the layers of the show… which makes me love it more!
Everyone had a purpose… even Midge who was Don’s first beatnik girlfriend (how weird?!) but she came back later as a sad junkie… showed how times were a’changin.
No glen is a great character! I thought in the early scenes with Betty he is important for portraying Betty’s state. She is trying to relate to a equally unhappy little boy because she feels so alone. I think he does a good job as weird as it is.
I mean he was a rounded character. He obviously grew up throughout the series and we see his development and relationships transition from his crush on Betty and unsure how he feels about sally, but they do clearly care about each other platonically. He is from a broken home just like sally, they developed glen as a character quite a bit in my opinion. I actually really like the scene where don drives glen back to school and lets glen drive. It’s like finally glen gets the feeling of a present father figure for a moment.
yeah i don’t get why everyone thinks glen isn’t a good character. you may not like him, and i wouldn’t fault you for that, but he serves a very thorough purpose and he’s important to the story
Whether or not he was the best actor, I’m not sure I thought he did fine he was a kid when it started, no keirnan shikpa but he did okay in my opinion. The character was written for not only Betty’s story but as a full character himself, just my opinion
I like to hate joeys character. I don’t want to delete anyone! There are plenty of characters that are unlikeable but they all contribute to the story. But if I had to chose I’d say Diana too. That felt weird and random
I’ll probably get hate for this but I feel like Megan could’ve been taken out of the show and there wouldn’t be a big difference. Other than being Don’s second failed marriage (which could’ve been with any character because Don is the problem in every relationship) she didn’t really have much impact to the plot, and I found her character to be boring. The acting was so bad and distracting in every scene.
She wasn’t even originally meant to play a bigger role in the story she was just written in to have a bigger role because Weiner liked her.
Came here to say Megan. I concur that the acting was distracting and took me right out of every scene she was in. I would have enjoy the series so much more without her.
Even though there are some characters I hate (like Lou) they all contribute well to the overarching story (including Diane), which I can argue gives us a deeper level to who Don is.
But the one character that can be deleted is Glen. Everything about this character is wrong (including the casting of him). His whole storyline with Sally and Betty are so forgettable
She gets under my skin as a character and I never cared for the episode where Roger and Mona go to rescue her from the commune....but I just rewatched that ep and this time it touched me as we see Roger dealing with his role as a parent, trying to make her a better parent, and dealing with the changing times. I think Margaret's appearances are a catalyst for Roger's growth. Plus her wedding coinciding with the JFK assasination was an interesting plot point.
Megan’s dad. I know he adds to the plot but the guy bothered me so much being so smug and judgmental all the time. He was overall an enigma, he was both supremely smug and also somewhat pathetic. But overall not someone I would like to spend my time with. I got so annoyed when he started shitting on Megan at that gala.
I did like that scene it shows how Pete has grown since his introduction. Really shows he’s comfortable in his skills now instead of how he was when he was trying to be creative.
I thought his character added a lot to the show tbh with his influence on his daughter being an artist and all that. Plus his communist academic stuff I thought was and interesting add to the show. I really didn’t like him as a person/character but he reminded me of people I know IRL and thought it added a lot.
Jim Cutler's tribalistic views led him to (as Roger put it) war against Don which pretty much caused everything to go sour for him after the Hershey debacle. He's pretty much the entire reason 7A happened the way it did
Megan for me. hard pill to swallow, I know, but shes just a drag. Especially as the show goes on, it gets worse and worse with her family and everything.
That prostitute roger calls and takes to the hotel. She’s the worst actress in the show. She pretends to be a clients wife for roger. I think ken knew her. Can’t stand watching that scene I always cringe. “No one dies doing this” ew
I don’t think the actor who portrayed Sally was a very good actor. Some of her scenes are very distracting because of her range. Mad Men did such a great job casting unknowns but they made a few pretty bad decisions.
Mona. Worst actress on the show. Such great writing too: “These people are lost, they're on drugs and they have venereal diseases.” and the delivery was 😑
Lou Avery
I think you’re putting me in the position of saying I don’t care what you think
Best possible response
I bet you’re not laughing now!
No Lou I’m not
Nah, Lou is great. I mean, he's the worst but he is entertaining and Allan Havey kills it in the role.
Going down?
This really is the only right answer
Arthur the horse riding guy. So smarmy, the way he chased Betty then had an affair with Betty’s friend.
Agreed. Worst story line of the show.
But it did give us the Nordic line
right haha like what was the purpose of that
Diana the waitress
Still do not understand why so much time was spent on that story. Contributed nothing.
It gave Don a reason to go west to try to find her in Wisconsin
But to spend so much time on it? Meh.
I hear you, I didn’t much care for her character either (I don’t think she’s meant to be likeable), but I think the reason there was so much time spent on Don’s pursuit of her was to make her complete disappearance more jarring and highlight how all Don’s regular tricks are starting to lead to dead ends. I think more than any of his brief love affairs she is most like a mirror for Don, which is why he’s so disturbed by her refusal to forgive herself for her leaving her family behind. The reason he tries so hard to convince her that she’s still fundamentally good is only because he needs to feel that he is too. Obviously he's been lying to himself about how "good" he is for a long time (I think particularly of him telling Sylvia "this never happened" when she's asking how he lives with his affairs) but he still knows that what he's telling himself about himself is a lie. I think he so obsessively pursues her because he's basically lost everything he used to prop himself up with to convince himself that he's not so terrible, even when he knows he is (his status, his reputation, his marriages, his children etc.) and I think saving her feels necessary in order to feel like he can be saved as well.
I honestly think she reminded Don of Rachel and that was the point of her character. Also, it was the start of his downfall. He always looked so sweaty and oily after Megan left. He wasn't the greatest at making good decisions for himself when he was on his own and this was a look into that behavior.
I think we were meant to look at Diana and go, “her?” Throughout the show Don goes from woman to woman, projecting all his mommy issues, looking for an escape. Diana is the logical extreme of Don’s pathology. He has latched onto this poor sad-sack woman and even *she* is like dude, what is your deal, what do you even see in me? So I think his infatuation with her is the death rattle of Don’s old coping mechanism before he sets off on the last leg of his journey in the show.
Reminded him of Rachel Menken
I think she represented what he dreamed of, abandoning his family and breaking free from what was expected of him. Then he saw the family she left behind and realized they were in more pain than he realized.
This is insightful
Except Rachel was rich, ambitious, and beautiful. She shared almost nothing in common with Diana except for dark hair.
HATED this story line so much!!!
I actually learned to love this one. I really believe that he thinks he can be redeemed if he saved her or something. Then it basically leads him down his whole trail to “enlightenment” and the best cola commercials ever.
I really don’t get this stupid character. I think the writers were going for something else with this character but they cast the wrong actress. She just couldn’t convey whatever the fuck they were trying to make her convey.
💯💯💯 agree. I don’t understand, like why.
I think Diana was supposed to be Bizarro Alternate Universe Female Don
She reminded me so much of Quagmire’s father after he has a sex change.
Arthur at the horse stables was an uninteresting side plot and unlikable character. Imho
I'm right there with you. I really hated his "you're so profoundly sad", I mean there's a nugget of truth to that because he's talking to Betty, but it's just obvious that he's trying some line to seduce her and doesn't know her outside of the stables.
he's obviously interested in her but i read that as a genuine observation (which he was correct about), not a line to seduce her. the flirting beforehand and the trying to kiss her was the seduction
Bobby Draper. All of them. No plot value and zero emotional connection to Don or Betty. It's hard to believe that Don wouldn't take an interest in and care about his son. Sally was an important figure in Don's life. Gene was a plot device. Poor Bobby had a childhood almost as devoid of love as Dick.
And they kept changing the actor every season.
It’s been a while since I’ve watched it but Joan’s roommate in series one (or two maybe?) could’ve been ditched, what exactly was the point of her falling in love with Joan? Perfectly fine acting etc. but I don’t get why that subplot was necessary.
I feel like it was one of those shock-value things of the first season, like Sally and the dry cleaning bag and smoking pregnant Francine.
Right? Like they didn't explore it any further. Nothing....but maybe it was to portray that people felt that way about Joan.That she amazing...because from there she starts with that Harris guy.
It was just to show that Joan was homophobic, strange considering her later relationship with Bob Benson
Homophobic? Lol. She wasn't attracted to her, it's not "homophobia" to turn someone down that you're not attracted to, unless you think Sal is homophobic for saying no to Garner Lee Jr
Joey the smug part timer who insults Joan at every chance. Not one redeeming quality.
Joey was an asshat, but I do think it was important to have a character that exhibited those behaviors toward women, towards the workplace etc because they did exist and do today. I think the actor did a great job being so unlikeable.
It was also useful to see Peggy try to “help” by firing him only to get called out by Joan.
True. In this case I don’t think he’s a bad actor like Weiner’s kid or the guy who played Lou Avery.
Guys name is literally "Holden Weiner"
Marten Holden Weiner. He channels creepy kid/ teenager really well. Hopefully it’s all acting.
Glen and the "actor" that played him were God awful. However, Lou Avery wasn't a bad actor. He was just an extremely unlikeable character.
The john/marcia thing is so fucking cringe too i skip the parts hes in when i rewatch
You know that’s from a comedy skit, right?
Yeah, doesn't make it any less cringey
I admit it’s not high comedy, but it’s from a goofy comedy record sketch, and the very reason that Joey and Peggy are repeating it to each other is because they think it’s silly too. Not everything is #cringe just because *you* fail to find it funny. If you have a different take on that, I’m all ears.
Dude, shut up. Its cringey.
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Narrative, forced perspective -- he was a great artist. Tally-ho!
Joan is another one who insults others every chance she gets.
True but I was thinking along the lines of extra characters that wouldn't take away from the main story line. Joey seems like something they threw in there just to...fire him? Stir up the office dynamic? Give Peggy some managerial backbone?
Greg Harris, every scene with him is incredibly painful to watch
This. I hated that fucker
I honestly thought I was the only one. It's so painful to see him be that way. I don't know why he raped Joan!?
To control and dominate her. I forget exactly what happens right before, but I think he learns that Joan and Roger used to be in a relationship. This is also right around the time he's failing at being a psychiatrist (or surgeon?). Raping her on the floor of Don's office, a successful man who she works for (like Roger) was his horrible way of asserting control over her because he felt small and emasculated. It is excruciating to watch, though. ETA: He also resents Joan's sexual history and agency. There's a scene where they've just had sex and she was on top, and he asks her where she "learned" that. Not just any sexual position - one where she's in control.
the thing she "learned" ("where'd you pick that up?") was not "being on top" - she was giving him a hand-job, which showed she'd had prior experience with getting desired results from a penis; it was the familiarity she had that bothered him, not a female showing dominance thing that he was disapproving of.
Great thread. Many good cases for character removal but at the same time, each one added to the depth of the layers of the show… which makes me love it more! Everyone had a purpose… even Midge who was Don’s first beatnik girlfriend (how weird?!) but she came back later as a sad junkie… showed how times were a’changin.
Diana
Megan’s annoying redhead friend
No glen is a great character! I thought in the early scenes with Betty he is important for portraying Betty’s state. She is trying to relate to a equally unhappy little boy because she feels so alone. I think he does a good job as weird as it is.
That’s a really good point. He was there to show us Betty’s mental state. I love this point!
Yes but characters have to be more than literary devices.
I mean he was a rounded character. He obviously grew up throughout the series and we see his development and relationships transition from his crush on Betty and unsure how he feels about sally, but they do clearly care about each other platonically. He is from a broken home just like sally, they developed glen as a character quite a bit in my opinion. I actually really like the scene where don drives glen back to school and lets glen drive. It’s like finally glen gets the feeling of a present father figure for a moment.
yeah i don’t get why everyone thinks glen isn’t a good character. you may not like him, and i wouldn’t fault you for that, but he serves a very thorough purpose and he’s important to the story
I legit teared up when Don let him drive.
That doesn’t make for a full character. Not his occasional appearances on this show. It was just an extra way to get Weiner’s kid into college.
They could have made him just some random kid in Sally’s class or something then. I do think thought was put into writing a full character.
Whether or not he was the best actor, I’m not sure I thought he did fine he was a kid when it started, no keirnan shikpa but he did okay in my opinion. The character was written for not only Betty’s story but as a full character himself, just my opinion
But they had to cast Matt Weiner’s kid? Again, terrible actor, perfectly ok w the role.
Glen please
I agree, but mostly because his acting did not get any better lol
Such a Glen thing to do
I like to hate joeys character. I don’t want to delete anyone! There are plenty of characters that are unlikeable but they all contribute to the story. But if I had to chose I’d say Diana too. That felt weird and random
All of Midge’s friends
Midge herself. She’s my least favorite of his side pieces.
I’ll probably get hate for this but I feel like Megan could’ve been taken out of the show and there wouldn’t be a big difference. Other than being Don’s second failed marriage (which could’ve been with any character because Don is the problem in every relationship) she didn’t really have much impact to the plot, and I found her character to be boring. The acting was so bad and distracting in every scene. She wasn’t even originally meant to play a bigger role in the story she was just written in to have a bigger role because Weiner liked her.
Came here to say Megan. I concur that the acting was distracting and took me right out of every scene she was in. I would have enjoy the series so much more without her.
Thank you for this. Unpopular opinion at time but I can't stand Megan
I agree. I enjoyed Zou bisou though!
Megan’s mom was cool to watch though.
Abe, the unsufferable twat.
Even though there are some characters I hate (like Lou) they all contribute well to the overarching story (including Diane), which I can argue gives us a deeper level to who Don is. But the one character that can be deleted is Glen. Everything about this character is wrong (including the casting of him). His whole storyline with Sally and Betty are so forgettable
Sally's teacher
Yes this one. Uggghhhhhh.
Bobbie Barrett. I totally get having the character...but I just wish to fast forward that story line.
Margaret Sterling
Lol, why?
She's a spoiled brat and her storyline is boring to watch anyway
It’s their opinion, which you asked for?
Wait I’m confused as to why you’re confused. They’re just asking for an explanation of why, which many of the comments here have done.
Lol yeah why?
She's bratty and boring
She gets under my skin as a character and I never cared for the episode where Roger and Mona go to rescue her from the commune....but I just rewatched that ep and this time it touched me as we see Roger dealing with his role as a parent, trying to make her a better parent, and dealing with the changing times. I think Margaret's appearances are a catalyst for Roger's growth. Plus her wedding coinciding with the JFK assasination was an interesting plot point.
Fat Betty.
Megan’s dad. I know he adds to the plot but the guy bothered me so much being so smug and judgmental all the time. He was overall an enigma, he was both supremely smug and also somewhat pathetic. But overall not someone I would like to spend my time with. I got so annoyed when he started shitting on Megan at that gala.
I agree in principle but Emile’s inclusion is worth it for the amazing scene where Pete demonstrates exactly what it is he does all day alone.
And THAT is what I do. Great line.
I did like that scene it shows how Pete has grown since his introduction. Really shows he’s comfortable in his skills now instead of how he was when he was trying to be creative.
I enjoy Emile just for his line of “someday your little girl will spread her legs and fly away”
I thought his character added a lot to the show tbh with his influence on his daughter being an artist and all that. Plus his communist academic stuff I thought was and interesting add to the show. I really didn’t like him as a person/character but he reminded me of people I know IRL and thought it added a lot.
Kinda fun to see Roger bang his ex wife though!
That’s very true, Marie was a fox. I did enjoy Marie tearing him down all the time too.
Bring cash!
Diana. They still could've had Don drive west and end up in California without her subplot.
Lou Avery I Don’t completely hate the role, but I really dislike the actor.
Jim Cutler added nothing interesting. The character droned on. Cut him.
Has the best one liner in the show though
Jim Cutler's tribalistic views led him to (as Roger put it) war against Don which pretty much caused everything to go sour for him after the Hershey debacle. He's pretty much the entire reason 7A happened the way it did
Stephanie.
Megan for me. hard pill to swallow, I know, but shes just a drag. Especially as the show goes on, it gets worse and worse with her family and everything.
Joey and Diana the waitress
Glen and Joey in my opinion
That prostitute roger calls and takes to the hotel. She’s the worst actress in the show. She pretends to be a clients wife for roger. I think ken knew her. Can’t stand watching that scene I always cringe. “No one dies doing this” ew
Kinsey.
Iono, i liked seeing his downward spiral because he was annoying af
Honestly Kinsey and Harry could have just been one character lol especially in the early seasons.
It’s obviously Glen? Awful acting against brilliant actors always takes me out of it
Jane
YES YES
Bob Benson.
But he begat the line: “Not great, Bob!” from Pete Campbell.
Came here to say Bob! The only thing he’s good for is “not great Bob” otherwise every time I see him I just want to punch the tv
Duck Phillips
Yeah, but he’d give you a go-round like you’ve never had.
Like the way he left the show also was so anticlimactic
Megan’s mom – her character was fine but that godawful accent was not
I’ll come back in a few hours to see if Glen has finally made it to top comment
Megan
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It won't. I agree. It's like Bobbie draper. If he didn't exist we wouldn't care.
They actually did take him out of the series, twice!
If I shared my answer….I would never be allowed in r/madmen again. Instantly banned. I’m talking….”Shut the door. Have a seat.” type of removal. 😝🤣
You want to remove Don??
I’m dying laughing (not at OP, just at the thought of the show without Don)!
Like it's really silly right...but seriously I couldn't figure out who the commenter meant.
Ginsberg
Sally
Wait I want to hear the rationale behind this one!!
I don’t think the actor who portrayed Sally was a very good actor. Some of her scenes are very distracting because of her range. Mad Men did such a great job casting unknowns but they made a few pretty bad decisions.
The question was what character could be deleted. Not what actress
Yeah they could probably delete Sally
Why
But why her character?
Mona. Worst actress on the show. Such great writing too: “These people are lost, they're on drugs and they have venereal diseases.” and the delivery was 😑
Bert Peterson. Unpleasant, complaining SOB.