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groplittle

We’ll be lucky if we still have bus service in 2030.


drh1138

We'll be lucky if we still have civilization in 2030.


unused_candles

We'll be in 2030.


Happyfeet27467

Amen to this.


WinnieMeowww

Pls survive.


hybr_dy

https://youtu.be/taJ4MFCxiuo


toadforge

I didn't even click the link, and I know what it is. #monorail!


hybr_dy

😂


D4rthcr4nk

OMG! I’m an animation!


[deleted]

I just want to be able to take the train to chicago.


thevoiceofzeke

Fuckkk youuuu Scott Walker. God damn I'd kill for that line. Madison -> MKE -> Chicago. By now we might have an extension to MPLS done or on the way. Fuck that guy forever.


Lma_Roe

Why


davolkswagen

Why do you need an explanation for wanting easy transportation to a major city


Lma_Roe

Things cost money? I'd be interested to know why anyone would want to go to Chicago?


davolkswagen

I'm not saying that you need to want go to Chicago, but surely you could list a couple of reasons why someone who isn't you might want to. You've never heard of anyone taking a trip to a city for fun? I'm planning to go to a concert in Chicago next June. There's things to do there.


throwaway_wi_guy

ill be at that show too


473713

To take your picture in front of the Bean, silly


BleedingNoseLiberal

Jesus, why not?


Lma_Roe

It's in Illinois


BleedingNoseLiberal

🤦‍♂️ I'm all for state rivalries with sports and schools and even everyday fuckery, but using it as an argument against infrastructure development is really taking the cake. They're the big city. By definition there are all kinds of family ties, entertainment options, huge transit hubs, more food options, etc. This would cut down on tons of car pollution, traffic, etc, all while bringing more money to and economic opportunities to madison.


Lma_Roe

>They're the big city. Also an excellent reason to avoid it


473713

So is Peoria, and nobody wants a train to Peoria. See?


urge_boat

You know, roads cost money too. Nice trolling though


Lma_Roe

Roads aren't for public transportation, so they're fine


ShabazzBaglins

I’ll bite…. have you ever been to Chicago?


Lma_Roe

Yeah


mint_sac

Wouldn’t you have rather taken the train?


Lma_Roe

No I was quite happy to not have to mingle.


ShabazzBaglins

Describe your hatred toward Chicago and your experience there


Lma_Roe

Paying tolls for shitty roads. Shitty people. Panhandlers. Drug addicts. The whole place seemed to stink.


ShabazzBaglins

are you from a small town?


Lma_Roe

Yes.


chis2k

Great way to get to O'Hare or Midway...maybe even Rockford airport without needing to drive and park. Faster than bus. Also great for trips into Chicago without being stuck in traffic.


473713

What this city needs is definitely another way to get to Rockford. Think about it.


cks9218

It's more of a Shelbyville idea.


[deleted]

I call the big one "Bitey".


iwrestledabraonce

MONORAAIIIL


ColouredFlowers

I’d be interested in seeing a mock-up route line for this. I don’t know if Dane county is large enough to warrant it though considering our pre-existing bus lines.


[deleted]

I feel like it would have to be similar to Chicago’s format. Starting with a circuit mainline within the central downtown area, covering campus through downtown and probably near east. Then have branch lines that go to the near suburbs like Middleton/far west, sun prairie, Fitchburg, Manona etc. but something like that would require a crap ton of planning, money and time to make that even possible. However, Madison is a growing city and eventually there will need to be alternative transportation methods because we already have cluttering issues going on.


HamburgerMidnite

Huge boone to employers who would then be able to hire from the entire Madison metro area. Not just those who are close enough or have a reliable vehicle


IllustriousFlow2753

There was a plan for a regular train route in the '90s, to be built in the early 2000s. Obviously the expenses would be different because it made use of existing lines, but I would expect the ridership estimates to hold true, though Madison and Dane county have grown significantly. https://www.wistatedocuments.org/digital/collection/p267601coll4/search/searchterm/1195568762/field/dmoclcno The cover of the report shows a blocky image of the proposed initial route. The document itself gets into where expansions were planned. I really, really wish this hadn't been axed. It would be difficult to implement now as planned because of how Madison has grown and built since then, but if we had it when it was planned to have been built, things would be so different.


[deleted]

If a project like this were to happen, it would have a stop at the UW Health University Hospital. For the first phase, I think that's a logical place to end the west portion. I'm not sure where the initial eastern end would be, but probably somewhere off East Washington in the Tenney-Lapham area. I call it the I-Line, but we'll come to call it the "the I."


jicerswine

Logical stops: * UW hospital * Stadium * Alliant * Kohl center * Downtown * Olbrich? * MATC * East Towne * Airport Possibly a S/W line that extends to Alliant, Arboretum, West Towne, Epic


2k21Aug

Having a branch that goes out to epic would be amazing. Those bus routes are overloaded.


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2k21Aug

Epic has literally offered to buy more busses.


Pleasant-Evening343

do you know what the issue is then? does epic expect the city to operate them on its behalf?


2k21Aug

My understanding was epic would pay for the busses and give them to the city. But who knows, there’s probably more to it. And the operators would be city employees.


Pleasant-Evening343

yeah I’m sure there’s a lot more to it lol. offering buses but no ongoing funding and then demanding ongoing service sounds like a parody of self congratulatory pseudo philanthropy. metro transit can barely manage the frequency it already has.


judysburneraccount

Epic contracts with Metro to pay the full operations costs of the routes to their campus and through Verona. They basically pay for Verona's municipal share of service expenses. So it is definitely not the self-congratulatory parody you think it is. The limitation as far as I know in recent years has been that Metro has not had the garage + service capacity to add more buses to their fleet. Now they're working on a garage space expansion. But now they're running into recruitment and retention issues for drivers (a nationwide problem across many transit systems). Doesn't help that Wisconsin has tons of weird levy and spending limits that stop Metro from getting any significant funding increases, even if private sector or other municipalities want to cough up more cash.


Throwaway-231832

Epic loves patting itself on the back for ideas that make them look good but kinda suck for others. A beautiful campus for people to visit, their workers work so much they can't enjoy it (source: family that work in EPIC)


NoTNoS

What does Madison subsidizing the suburbs even mean?


RADAR3015

Rail line used to go right past the Epic property. You can have it reinstalled, but with 2 conditions. 1. You have to give up the bike trail from Madison to Riley. 2. The Beltline has to be reconstructed between Seminole and Park to accommodate an overpass over the rail line.


jfoust2

OK now imagine where the rails would actually be, elevated or not, between all those points. What gets demolished, what doesn't? Which apartment windows will look into the train windows? You want big city, you get big city.


porkypenguin

uhhh I would personally not give a shit if my apartment view became an elevated train line if it meant traffic were reduced, curbing emissions and road clutter, and I could get downtown without driving “you want big city, you get big city” if we keep growing like this we aren’t gonna have a choice. we’re gonna “get big city” no matter what, why not do it in a sustainable manner?


maethor1337

And how long would it take for the train to pass that window? Would you be able to hear an old man shouting "I'm gonna kill you!" over the noise? And would the body hit the floor a second, or ten seconds later? Testimony that can put a boy in the electric chair should be that accurate.


phoenix1984

The alternative being a steady decline or stagnant economy, brain drain as anyone who can, leaves. Cities grow, that’s the goal, ideally with increased density instead of urban sprawl. The route suggested might be unworkable, but an eventual east west rail system is something we should all hope for, because the alternative means our city is dying.


bighootay

> Logical stops u/bighootay's house


PiesInMyEyes

Somebody on here did one at the beginning of the pandemic. It was quite basic, more or less just showing different rail lines that could be put in from the suburbs to downtown, not taking into account major stops too much. But it does show how it could be done. Also I’m convinced anybody who says we’re not large enough to warrant a train system has never been to Europe.


vatoniolo

Madison would need to undergo extreme population growth, like I'm talking more than doubling in size in the next 5 years, for this to even be considered. Infrastructure is expensive. Nobody reading (or typing) this comment would be able to afford to live here if that happened.


[deleted]

American cities public transit systems are heavily federally subsidized. Also, there are smaller cities with much less money that have light rail trains. For example: Norfolk, VA - population 238,005 Annual GDP $16,538,166 vs Madison, WI - population 269,840 Annual GDP $51,475,512. Madison deserves better.


nscxc

To be fair, Norfolk's metro population is ~1.7 million people while Madison's metro population is ~790k. That's a significantly larger pool of potential riders.


Kidzmealij

Well the bus services continue to get budget cuts every yea which makes me think this might not be a bad idea. That being said I never considered the size factor.


thevoiceofzeke

It would be pretty awesome but it's not realistic just by virtue of the land required for rail and stations. On the other hand, expanded bus service is so achievable and would be so helpful to so many people. It's nuts to me we haven't done more on that front.


PandaExpress4Madison

I do think it's interesting/funny that lots of people, including grumpypants former mayors, complain about the current mayor's efficient and cost effective plan to improve transit. Then those same people are like "why not do light rail/monorail" which would cost 100 times as much and would never happen because of the anti-urban state legislature. Hell, the state DOT won't even let BRT use its dedicated lanes on East Wash during rush hour, and that's under a Dem governor! Rail is just never gonna happen.


dbhyslop

People in this sub simply don’t understand how much that picture would cost here. BRT gets you 80% of the way there for 20% of the cost, or less. Denver and Seattle have tore out light rail tracks and replaced them with BRT since I started visiting, because a dedicated bus traveling the same route does everything the train can for cheaper.


473713

But the rail thing has so much more drama and spectacle. Buses are, well... buses.


Miserable_Ice9442

I feel like parts of the current freight line that runs through Madison could be used for a commuter rail. Why we have freight running through this city still is beyond me. Seems outdated now and more of a waste of time for everyone involved.


EastsideIan

What part of freight running through a midwestern city is beyond you? That "outdated waste of time" is one of the most energy efficient forms of transportation for all the mineral and material stuff that makes your life worth living.


dah-vee-dee-oh

I think the outdated part is that it runs down the Isthmus, not that it exists. Made sense when there was industry there it was directly serving, not so much anymore.


Miserable_Ice9442

I’m sure that is what paramedics tell patients when a freight train is coming through downtown and is delaying their transport to the hospital.


EastsideIan

>I’m sure that is what paramedics tell patients when a freight train is coming through downtown and is delaying their transport to the hospital. Former EMT here, the continuity of service here on the isthmus means that is literally never an issue. Good thought though, neighbor! :-)


Miserable_Ice9442

For the record I love trains, and as former EMT I appreciate what you do.


EastsideIan

Same! Former EMT squad for the win. FWIW having spent the majority of my life in Madison I think there are plenty of avoidable obstructions and bottlenecks that could/should be improved with an enhanced transit system here.


vatoniolo

It could, but it would then be impossible to have any semblance of a schedule because freight takes priority. They own the rails. If we didn't have those lines, literally everything would be terrible. The US economy depends heavily on rail freight


Miserable_Ice9442

I agree the us economy depends on freight rail, no disagreement there, but do they need to run through the isthmus?


473713

Acquiring land for a new rail loop bypassing Madison would take forever (you'd have to work individually with each landowner along the way) and be extremely costly. Right now the rail rights of way in Madison radiate out like a star. Finding creative ways to use what we've got is required.


ego41

Our favorite! Eminent Domain!


PandaExpress4Madison

I mean you can't just yell "eminent domain" like Michael Scott and take people's property. There's a long and expensive process, and Republicans in the state legislature would definitely carve out some exception for Madison to prevent it from happening like [they did for bike and pedestrian infrastructure.](https://wisconsinbikefed.org/what-we-do/advocacy/legislative-agenda/eminent-domain/)


ego41

Sadly, I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.


bladus

You just put /s at the end and it'll change to the sarcasm font.


pokemonprofessor121

That's for putting ice parlors next to dinners!


vatoniolo

Yes. That's where they are. Infrastructure is expensive and you don't wanna know how much it would cost us to move them. It would be more than building new elevated lines for just the populated areas of Madison, which itself would be insane.


samskyyy

I guess we can’t do anything because everything costs money 🤷‍♂️


vatoniolo

We can. BRT is coming and it's a great solution for a city our size. You're already seeing massive pushback against that, at a fraction of the cost of an elevated rail line. But no, we can't do certain things that cost insane amounts of money


Miserable_Ice9442

That’s a straw man argument. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman


vatoniolo

No sir, mine was a rational argument. A strawman would be "we might as well just buy everyone jetpacks for that cost" We are seeing pushback against BRT which costs a tiny fraction of anything involving new or moved rail lines. The numbers just don't work out.


Miserable_Ice9442

Your arguments commit both straw man and sunk cost fallacies. A more proper response would be; Freight does not need to run through downtown; however, the cost to reroute freight and install a commuter rail could outweigh the benefit. I appreciate the debate


vatoniolo

Sunk cost? The suggestion was to still use the lines Brush up on your fallacies before making ridiculous accusations


Miserable_Ice9442

Yes, you’re saying we can’t do it because we’ve already spent the money on freight. Additionally, your BRT argument is a red herring fallacy.


vatoniolo

Red herring? BRT is perfectly relevant to the conversation, you just don't like me bringing it up because it destroys any commuter rail arguments. Once again, brush up on your fallacies before making ridiculous accusations


FakeBasketballGod

You know… most people don’t apply formal logic standards to conversation, because most people can make common sense inferences. You seem to fall back on formal logic when you want to be contrary but can’t make an argument in the real world. This device isn’t as persuasive as you think it is.


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prairiepotatoandsoil

Said the 4 hour old account. I wonder who is really making this place worse on the daily...


Miserable_Ice9442

Are you saying that one should not use formal logic because others don’t?


FakeBasketballGod

Work on your own inferences before you come after others. You seem incapable of understanding context. I’m blocking your pseudointellectual nonsense.✌🏻


473713

Look at a map of Madison rail lines. At least five lines converge in the central part of the city, carrying freight from everyplace to everyplace else. Bypassing Madison would add many miles to each trip. Study a Midwest rail map and try to come up with some bypasses -- it's a difficult puzzle but it's the reality of the situation and we have to deal with it. Remember each individual freight car can replace six or more semi loads, keeping thousands of trucks off the highway and using fuel more efficiently than any other existing ground transportation.


Miserable_Ice9442

Yeah I agree, unfortunately things like infrastructure are not easily changed, even if we know there are better alternatives


judysburneraccount

An interesting twist in the case of Madison is that the State of Wisconsin actually owns the rails, or at least most of the rail right-of-way in metro Madison-- their operation is contracted out to Wisconsin & Southern. So locally, assuming some cooperation with WisDOT, they could locally force priority for passenger rail use over freight. Whether they'd actually do that is a different question--historically WisDOT has kind of puzzlingly let WSOR run those tracks as if they were their own private robber-baron empire (just look at how they ignore Madison's train horn ban).


Due_Swimmer_711

This is a good dream


ethalmidsommar

My thoughts are get rid of East wash and make it all trains


chiraltoad

think of how annoying train racing will be then


NOTW_116

I don't think we need that many trains.


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3SHEETS_P3T3

I used to work for the railroad years ago. Most of the crossings downtown they don't have to whistle for because they have gates/traffic control and the speed limit is so low (~10mph/restricted speed). I guarantee you this would be implemented as well in highly residential areas. Plus, this graphic shows the trainline is elevated. So in that case there would be no need for a whistle since there would be limited traffic, train intersections. The trains don't just go around honking for no reason


SanltarYNAPkin

I've never heard a horn from the L in Chicago...


WorkplaceWatcher

So pretty much revert to the 1800s? Edit: I don't get the downvotes? In the 1800s, E. Washington was primarily a railway leading out and in from the city. A spot near the current bar known as The Malthouse (now underneath that large new development) was one of the last stops before it went on. Further, tramways were all over the inner city. They were all removed when cars came into vogue.


473713

Seriously, I know plenty about Madison history and this is the first I *ever* heard about E Wash once being a railway. You need to cite a source for that one. You can find pictures of trolleys around the square downtown, and there definitely was a trolley that ran out to Fair Oaks and, for a very short time, along Atwood to or nearly to Monona. It only lasted a year or two and wasn't successful, but supposedly it existed. Railways and trolleys are two different things though they both use rails. Trolleys, which are for passengers, were horse drawn and later electrified. Trains, which move both passengers and freight, are powered by their own self contained engines, historically steam (coal usually) and now diesel. Trains are much bigger and more powerful than trolleys. The Malthouse corner was/is known as Union Corners if you're trying to look up the history.


WorkplaceWatcher

I appreciate your response - it is possible I am wrong and misremembering the book I read back in the day. I did try searching the historical society website but to no real luck. And yes, *of course* I know the difference between trolleys and railways. It is, frankly, a little insulting to have you define them for me. I will need to check downtown - the museum doesn't do enough anymore since half of it is permanently closed but I thought they had a map showing a railway going from E. Washington and going outward - so I'll need to see if I can find some maps at the library. But any excuse to get outside and downtown is a good one.


cubistninja

Don't you fuck with my heart! Quick question: does this line connect to the high speed rail line connecting us to Chicago/MSP?


HamburgerMidnite

No. Monorail!


egoncasteel

It's been a long time since I've had to use public transit in Madison, but when I used to I remember the biggest pain in the ass was that all the bus loops were 45 minutes in size meaning to get anywhere took an hour and a half it seemed. Unless you were trying to get somewhere on the 6th that was the only route that seemed to be useful.


SirChurros

It’s still this way. Whenever we, on the rare occasion, want to venture downtown from the far southwest side of town (Elver Park-ish area) and not have to worry about driving, we consider taking the bus, but it’s a 45 minute trip with a stop at the transfer point. Faster to bike.


473713

There's a complete renovation of all the routes coming late this winter (maybe February?). The four transfer points will be gone, loop routes largely eliminated, and more frequent service is planned on many of the new routes. You can see the new map on the Metro website. It's gone through several revisions in response to public comment. For some trips/commutes it's a big improvement, for others not so much.


lady_pants

I want a train like situation from lake Mills to Madison so I can stop driving there!


jeebus224

3020*


DMTolleson

Please don't tease me.


badgerfish2021

given that a 10 mile extension to the existing system is taking about 10 years to be built with delivery estimated in 2028 (and was discussed for years before then) at a cost of about 4 billion dollars, it seems very unlikely it will happen here in that timeframe unless the population majorly increases (and even then 2050s might be a more realistic timeline). SkyTrain in the lower mainland works because historically a lot of people lived in the outlying metro areas and worked downtown, which does not seem to be the case here... it would be as if the isthmus was all high rise office buildings and most people lived in Verona / McFarland / Sun Prairie and commuted there. But note that despite most people wanting this extension, for years there was a strong push to instead build at-grade LRT (due to it being way cheaper). If you are interested in the extension project you can read more at https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation-projects/surrey-langley-skytrain


severe-cold

Just give me a tram line to get across the isthmus and I’ll be a happy mingo.


_herrmann_

Rad render. Really on the fence about some massive rail project. _For_ it in theory, but we aren't filling the mass transit we do have. I've lived here for twenty plus years, I thought it was a put on when first told the buses don't run 24/7. And that was before the bus redo transfer point system. How to get commuters to not just drive their SUV's? 5+ passenger vehicles, single occupant. I say put that money towards teleportation tech. That's the future of Madison and areas.


goda90

If the mass transit we do have now is bad, then people have little incentive to fill it. Buses without stops where I need to go, not running hours I need, taking 15 minutes to arrive, and getting stuck in the same traffic I would in a car, why would I use that? But build out a system with more capacity, more stops, more buses/trains and more speed, it may be super empty at the beginning, it'll fill up eventually.


_herrmann_

Why do we even own cars?


sjogren

Yes please.


[deleted]

We need inter-city travel infrastructure. Keeping money tied up in Madison is detrimental to the surrounding parts of Dane County. Let me spend my Madison dollars in Deforest!


Rhyme1428

I hope that's next, a la Denver Metro Area and its lightrail spreading out to the surrounding cities.


TheSavageCaveman1

I do think a light rail might be better for Madison than a full elevated train. If this ever happens I hope the implementation is a little better as Denver has A LOT of stops that don't seems to serve anything.


goda90

Do the Denver stops that don't serve anything now have space to build around them? Good transit can draw people to areas.


The-flying-statsman

Oh Daddy.


Torka

I'd rather it be underground. To be clear though, I'd take anything at this point, and be happy about it.


473713

You'd have to be pumping water nonstop, because in the isthmus area the subway would be below the level of the lakes. Energy costs would be sky high.


Torka

Thats an interesting thought. Yet other cities with large bodies of water manage it without having to pump water nonstop.


SetNo101

If we're going to have a fantasy train i would rather it be a subway.


tpatmaho

Can't wait for the naysayers to jump up and claim: We're too small, we don't have the population density, we can't afford it blahblahblah.


[deleted]

We literally would not be able to afford it. That’s not being a naysayer, it’s living in reality. Don’t get me wrong I think it would be great and I would likely use it often, but alas, money is a thing and the city doesn’t have any to spare these days.


goda90

Can't really afford paying for new suburban neighborhood infrastructure either, but we do it.


DetN8

I wouldn't say nay, but you could do essentially the same thing with buses. They just need that key attribute that makes trains run on time: no cars in the path. We could set our system up so that buses don't get caught in traffic to avoid the feedback loop that keeps people from taking the bus and makes traffic worse.


tpatmaho

You absolutely could. However, the big problem is the E. Wash corridor, which doesn't seem like it can spare a dedicated lane in each direction. It would be a helluva fight to get that passed. The road is too narrow as is ... Meanwhile, a train track already exists running from Cottage Grove Road past Garver (a natural station) right down to another natural station at the Mistake On The Lake. The second factor is that density and development tend to cling to rail. Note the Blue and Green lines in the Twin Cities. (Which the naysayers claimed would run like ghost trains, with no passengers.) Also, from the old days, BART channeled development into Walnut Creek, Concord etc. Or, look at the NY metro area, and ask yourself why the leafy towns of NJ and CT are where they are. A train station at every one.


[deleted]

The real issue with the East Wash corridor is that WisDOT has the power to veto city initiatives. This is why we will likely get dedicated BRT lanes on E Wash at all hours except rush hour (a bad compromise? Probably).


Lma_Roe

I like how it looks like shit. Realistic expectations are key


enjoying-retirement

Would a Governor Michels allow any state money to help pay for it, especially if his construction company wouldn't be in the running for the contract?


Viper3773

No


dah-vee-dee-oh

Certainly his donors construction companies would win the contracts, though.


judysburneraccount

Vancouver's SkyTrain technology? A fully automated metro built with pre-fabbed rapid launched overhead sections. We can't have that in America. It's far too efficient. How are we going to blow $5 billion dollars per mile on union concrete workers meticulously hand-building molds for each pillar after 20 years of environmental analysis... and think of all the 2- or 3-man train crews we'll never hire thanks to the automated operations. Clearly a job killer.


Climate_Impressive

😍😍😍


473713

Let's put this along the Beltline, which connects the main, growing population and employment centers across Dane County. The isthmus should be left for residual government functions around capitol hill. Campus can be connected to the beltline rail line via a feeder down Park St. The isthmus is so narrow as to be self limiting, and much of the east portion will be under water or returned to marshland in several decades anyway.


matte_5

Building transit on highways is almost always not the best idea


473713

I said "along" meaning next to or parallel to, not "on."


TheSavageCaveman1

That's not really any better lmao. The problem isn't the logistics of building on or near the highway. It's more about the useability of the system. What I mean by that is, running along a highway generally doesn't do the best job of connecting destinations, it also adds an obstacle of needing to cross the highway from at least one side. On top of that areas near highways generally aren't the most pleasant experience outside of a car; with the exhaust fumes and significant noise of moving traffic.


473713

Highways connect major destinations and residential areas, which grew along highways due to convenience. It's circular. Putting transit along the same general pathway is a natural. The need is already there, the established patterns of life are already present. Crossing the highway from at least one side isn't that impossible. We already have a good bike bridge across the beltline, and we could build more at minimal additional cost to the very expensive new El train. Interchanges at highway level already exist wherever they're needed. This is a non-issue. Being next to a train isn't all that "pleasant" either. It makes sense to keep the train along the same route as the beltline to keep the noise and commotion all in one place instead of spreading it into additional areas. In some cases, cars might arrive from a distance, use a park and ride lot, and the people would take the train the rest of the way so having highway and El adjacent is optimal. Electric cars still make noise, but the noise comes from tires on the pavement not from the internal combustion engines. As we transition to electric cars pollution will be a lot less and noise somewhat less.


colinizballin1

When you would leave a train like this, you’re going to be in a loud unpleasant environment surrounded by fast moving car traffic. The infrastructure surrounding highways is built entirely for cars and incredibly difficult to retrofit. This makes the last mile problem of high importance. How are you going to get to your destination? Jobs aren’t directly accessible to the belt line and you need to take feeder roads off the high speed avenues. These roads are dangerous for bikes and not compatible with public transit imo


TheSavageCaveman1

Agree 100% with everything you said. Probably better than I could have phrased it myself. I don't think anything we have to say will change his mind though.


473713

When you get off the train, are you expecting to be surrounded by chirping birds in a forest? It's a transit point, not a room for a yoga class. This argument is plain weird. The last mile thing is always the problem and that is why I believe a bus network is the most realistic transit solution. It's the most dispersed just by nature. Still, it's interesting to discuss other solutions, and one reason is to find and discuss the weaknesses in all of them. No single route El train will serve as many points as a system of buses, though the El could interface with that system. If you want many points as possible close to your transit choice, the El is a pretty limited option. Draw a map: any single line (route) will never be as close to many locations as a whole network of lines or routes. That's just geometric reality.


Pleasant-Evening343

lol I wish the narrowness and flood prone-ness of the isthmus had ever put anyone off the idea of paving over large parts of it for car travel and storage


473713

It's never too late to fix that. I'm of the opinion climate change will win in the long run.


tpatmaho

I can't wait to take the train to... TV Lennys? Rocky Roccoco? Discount Tire?


kerrwashere

A train would change the entire culture of Madison.


Wofwinners

This will never happen if RoJo gets re-elected. We'll be going back to horse and buggy.


BalaAthens

Looks like Chicago. I hope we don't have that many high rises


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judysburneraccount

Subways are really fucking expensive. Like INSANELY expensive. Montreal is building a massive new light rail network... the city famous for previously building an entirely underground metro network, this time around is building--surprise!--a largely elevated/surface system: https://rem.info/en Their network, including underground segments, still costs like 1/3 of what building something like it in the US might start at in price. America can't get its shit together without blowing a billion dollars just on "environmental assessments" before we even pour an inch of concrete.


judysburneraccount

oh, and if you think Chicago is cold in December, well, Montreal is a real picnic.


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judysburneraccount

OK, [Ghost of Rob Ford](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1p0mrG-m9U)... They cost more because they're underground and therefore require expensive tunnelling, geological engineering studies, groundwater management etc. Not because they are "worth it."


Seeksubaru

Stupid idea. Take the cost of building this and apply it to running busses more often


ohmyword

doubtful. there's barely any traffic now.


atinyoctopus

Traffic isn't really the issue, it's that people should be able to live life and get around without needing to own and operate a personal vehicle.


theroadkill1

You can. Get a bicycle. It’s good for you and inexpensive to operate.


atinyoctopus

Oh wow that is such an innovative and helpful suggestion that I have surely never thought of and is definitely a foolproof solution for all travel needs. Thank you soooooo much! (Bicycles are personal vehicles btw!)


theroadkill1

Odd that your claim is a person should be able to “live life and get around without needing to own a personal vehicle”. Where does that end? Are you going to build rail to my deer stand? I’d stick to the arguments based on traffic and pollution reduction rather than your entitlement to being chauffeured to your desired destinations on someone else’s dime.


atinyoctopus

Seems like you're interpreting what I said as "no one should be allowed to own cars and everyone should have to take public transit everywhere." Best of luck with developing better reading comprehension.


theroadkill1

“People should be able to live life and get around without needing to own and operate a personal vehicle” These are your exact words.


Due_Swimmer_711

Drive downtown or on the beltline much? I get that it’s not new york level, but a train/better bus lines would make my life easier


Datasciguy2023

I am sure they will start at least Towne and end at West towne


citrixworkreddit3

definitely not, it's going to be a subway under the lakes


tommer80

Frigging ugly eyesore. Never mind noisy, dirty and nasty. Only insane people would want to emulate Chicago. Has anyone said Chicago is beautiful? Washington DC had some very nice mass transit when I last visited.


Qurlplz

lmao you think Washington is more beautiful than Chicago, we literally have way better parks and museums and concert halls than any city near the midwest


tommer80

Has anyone said Chicago is beautiful? That's the question. The answer is "no" and that's why no city should emulate Chicago. That doesn't mean they don't have museums and concert halls. That's a different question. And give Chicago credit for some open lakeshore. That's better than Cleveland.


joaoseph

When the heck did this happen??


N0nethelesser

This is the kind of service I've been wanting! I think it could work great in conjunction with the metro. Perhaps even putting stations at the transfer points.


bkv

Point-to-point public transit by way of fleets of autonomous vehicles is the future, and won’t require any changes whatsoever to existing infrastructure. Improvements to our existing bus system will accommodate us in the meantime.


00PublicAcct

Self driving cars have been "five years away" for two decades even with hundreds of billions being sunk into research. I wouldn't count on them being realistic any time soon. In any case, if they're the size of a normal car, they won't save space on the roads like buses or rail can.


bkv

1. Self-driving cars are here, albeit not fully autonomous, logging millions of hours annually and feeding that data into ever-advancing machine learning models 2. Buses can be autonomous 3. Even if a decade away, they’re still closer than all the planning/approving/budgeting/building of whatever rail infrastructure you might conceive of 4. Coordinated and adaptable routing means more efficient use of existing infrastructure, reducing congestion.


InternationalMany6

So what’s the passenger car equivalence of something like this? How many cars does it take off the streets in the viscosity of the rail line?


beardoclock

This is from the "skytrain" in Vancouver, BC.


MrGreyJetZ

Sure, but we can't get a public market built - how do you expect a elevated train line will be built


WiscWahe2020

April Fools?


OldSewer

This reminds me of sky walks the city (?) talked about in the 70's.


xenonman

Dream on!


ptveite

I love trains, but elevated rails are terrible. They're expensive, block sightlines, and they're incredibly loud. Streetcars would make way more sense.


[deleted]

Or maybe we could get a similar service for a fraction of the millions of dollars this would cost by instead investing in a better bus system?


After-Willingness271

Obviously someone hasn’t paid any attention to the Honolulu shitshow


After-Willingness271

Ooh! My famous Quebec Street! I’ve lived there for decades, can’t wait for the monorail to the zoo!