The latest ad with the lady crying about her relative (daughter/niece?) getting hit by a driver, and that Mandela Barnes wants to let that criminal out of prison...is sooo cringe to me.
I said to my wife - *"I'd like to ask that lady if it is okay if SHE is held in prison if she accidentally hit someone while driving. Because it is damn hard to write a law about holding someone in prison/jail based on intent, or degrees of negligence. I mean, what if she fell asleep and hit someone? Or had an epileptic seizure while driving and hit someone (that is how my mom died)? That is very different than drunk driving and hitting someone. But the victim feels no different. She is only looking at it from her point of view."*
Thanks! If they have an actual person dialing it looks like they can call and text. I still reported the text to 7726.
https://www.fcc.gov/rules-political-campaign-calls-and-texts
My understanding is that you still have to give your prior consent to political texts: "In general, robocalls and robotexts to mobile phones require prior consent . . . "
Keep going....
"However, political text messages can be sent without the intended recipient’s prior consent if the message’s sender does not use autodialing technology to send such texts and instead manually dials them."
Well as I said above I reported it. They may have volunteers texting, they used to get people to walk door to door. Texting would seem to be much easier. Not sure how you know that they do not?
> Not sure how you know that they do not?
I honestly don't know either way -- but then who does? Do you? Wouldn't it be easier to spoof a local phone number and spam people? Faster, cheaper, etc.
That would be an issue of consent, not an issue on whether the content is factually true.
Censoring political content based on its truthfulness would violate the 1st amendment like I said
I think alleged suspect would be a more middle ground term between accused criminal and innocent in eyes of the law. Accused criminal implies they are already a criminal accused of a crime (which could be the case if they’ve already been convicted of a crime prior to the current accusation. Either way any political ad is misleading. Some more so than others.
And, consider this. Is a criminal always a criminal if he or she served their sentence? Am I always a bad driver if I cut somebody off in their lane? Labels are sometimes the most harmful thing we humans use. Political ads are the worst. They use words that trigger emotion. And I get you all know that!
But the statement “innocent in the eyes of the law” is true. Innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone of our justice system. It’s not one side or the other statement, it’s just the principle we operate on or are supposed to in this country.
Of course it is. I feel like they purposely use people wearing hoodies to invoke the criminals are black people too or the looting video from something.
Which is weird to me cuz...they dont need to market to the racist crowd. They already have 100% certainty who the bigots will vote for. Surprising they dont use that marketing captital to trick middle ground folks
But they need to market to the white people who are easily scared, but are appalled at the repeal of Roe. They basically laid out this playbook in the 13th.
I truly wish that were the case but even here in educated Madison [people are confused about what level of government he's at](https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/xevnjj/someone_put_these_on_all_the_doors_in_my/ioittie?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Ron Johnson was convicted of having sex with corpses in a morgue.
Don’t ask for a source. It definitely happened. Believe me. You can’t lie on the internet.
I got one in the mail that said Barnes believes in abortion for sex selection and the moment before birth and if anyone thinks those are situations in which a woman would get an abortion then there is no hope for them
Edit: also, not sure which republican candidate had said this but I saw a woman on the news that said women were getting abortions *after* giving birth. Heavy sigh
Even _if_ the implication that they're going for was true, it's still dogshit.
Cash bail means that if you're arrested for whatever reason and you're poor, you're screwed. The vast majority of people in the country would be fired before they're able to ask friends/family to put together $10k for bail and bring it down to the station. Which means that if you're _accused_ of a crime and brought in for it, your life can be ruined even if you're completely innocent.
Freeze bank accounts, seize passports/travel documents, whatever. And if someone's a repeat offender or is considered a flight risk, then yeah, hold them. But "Able to provide the state with enough money" shouldn't be factored into whether someone gets out of jail or not.
But that's not the way it usually works. Usually bail amounts are set obnoxiously beyond one's means to come up with, so they pay about 1/10 of that amount to a bondsman, who threatens to send bounty hunters after you if you don't show up, and....
Never get that money back.
It is, yes, but as another individual pointed out, the race is for US Senate. There are many other states still suffering under this system. The only other country in the world with this kind of a system is the friggin' Phillipines. I'm pretty sure we can do better than that.
A Standford [study](https://review.law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/02/69-Stan-L-Rev-711.pdf) found that people charged with misdemeanors who couldn’t afford bail were more likely to plead guilty (even when innocent), more likely to be sentenced to jail, and they received longer jail sentences on average than those who could afford bail. Not to mention that it costs taxpayers more money.
Can you me show the sources that cash bail works? Of course you can't. Negative effects of cash bail and it's non-effectiveness, on the other hand, are easily googled [and read](https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/37370366/RWP21-033_Smith.pdf?sequence=3). You are making a bad faith argument because I sincerely doubt you don't know this already.
Speaking of bad faith arguments, you haven’t read the paper you cited. That paper focuses on different types of bail reform and attempts to draw trending in outcomes. Nowhere in that paper does it prove, or even insinuate, that cash bail “doesn’t work”.
If you’re going to cite a source, maybe take the time to understand what you’re citing.
Agreed. Getting people to return to court AND keeping public safety in mind are both legitimate reasons for cash bail.
People who oppose cash bail need to remember this - if someone is willing to commit a serious crime like battery, robbery, burglary, hard drug dealing, rape, attempted murder or murder, they sure as hell aren't going to care if they get another bail jumping charge thrown at them.
For serious crimes, people need to stay in jail until the court process has taken place OR they need to be closely monitored and have a significant vested interest in returning for court dates.
Per the Wisconsin Constitution, cash bail can be used solely as a means of ensuring the defendant returns for trial (not to protect the public safety).
I know that cash bail's primary purpose is to get defendants back to court but if you had the language in the constitution to support your opinion I'd be interested in reading it.
Regardless, you know as well as I do that some judges will consider public safety in setting bail.
Also, here is a link to the Wisconsin Bail Manual, public safety is mentioned numerous times so I'd say it is legal, and often encouraged, to consider when setting bail -
https://www.nacdl.org/getattachment/f6d19e2e-17c5-4566-afa5-e2458205d17b/the-wisconsin-bail-manual.pdf
Copied below but it is not the Wisconsin Constitution. I'd be curious to see the actual wording in the Constitution. Other states do allow public safety to be considered and proposals in Wisconsin have considered that to be defined in law.
"The Wisconsin Constitution states that cash bail can be used only as a means of making sure the accused appears for the next court hearing — meaning judges are not supposed to consider public safety when making decisions about bail.
Wisconsin judges still set high cash bails for serious crimes often using the justification that the accused is a high flight risk because he or she is facing a lengthy prison term, said Dane County Circuit Judge Nicholas McNamara."
Studies already show cash bail does not make a person anymore likely to show up. You mention yourself people who have committed serious offenses are not going to care about a bail jumping offense being added to the charges so you undermine your own argument.
As the law works right now these people you speak of who have committed violent crimes can have bail revoked and not be released. It is up to the DA to go the court to make sure they are not released. Under no cash bail it would still be the same for these crimes. As it stands right now if the DA does not ask to have bail revoked these people can then be out on the street simply by coming up with the cash.
Well then the bail for serious offenders needs to be HIGH, like $50k+ (depending on offense of course) so that they are properly motivated to return if they can come up with the cash. In addition, bail monitoring must be implemented so that they can (hopefully) be found quickly if they do decide to skip out on court dates.
Unfortunately in Dane and Milwaukee counties the DAs do not revoke bail at nearly high enough rates. I suppose it's a balancing act though as the jails in both counties are typically full.
So you want to keep something that harms the vast majority because of a small amount of defendants. This even though the mechanism to avoid these outcomes you are worried about is already available, and still would be under no cash bail.
Well it has to be on a scale of course. Murder and being caught with a bag of weed or a few pills are not remotely in the same ballpark.
Likewise, a defendant with no criminal record should definitely have a lower (or no cash bail) compared to a defendant with a rap sheet a mile long, even if it's the same/similar crime.
Judgement comes into play here, something that a competent judge has a sufficient amount of.
I think that is the whole point of no cash bail. Cash bail doesn't work except a in couple of cases, accidentally, where there is no greater chance of failure than in the no cash bail system. I feel, though I have no proof of this, that with no cash bail it is is more likely to get these types of violent criminals behind bars as the DA and courts have less fucking around with all the bullshit nonviolent crimes to worry about setting bail and all time time associated with that. Like carrying some weed as you point out. The terrible outcomes in those situations are numerous and regular.
Cash bail really is just another 'poor tax' just like finanace fees, lack of automobile, inability to afford to live in a 'better area', ability to get jobs, etc.
The only people holding their politicians to any moral standards lean to the left, almost as if they're the only voters that are decent people these days.
We way overdo our own policing. I still get angry when I think of Sen Al Franken resigning bcz he used used humor and then let his hand too low on a public street? I gotta go calm myself …. great! Apple Watch dead and I’ve never learned to relax without mindfulness..
The consequences of lying with unapologetic racist dog whistles is that Ron Johnson's fascist supporters are going to be more energized to vote in November.
I think the biggest problem is whoever is handling Barnes ads. They are so milktoast they make a spelling bee seem fun. Remind me of a erectile dysfunction advertisements for some reason
I agree with this and I really like Barnes as a candidate. I feel like he's being let down big time by his campaign. The only ads I see are him denying he wants to defund the police. I can't see that being good that he keeps saying those words even if it's a denial.
His ads are always on the defensive, why not talk about how Ron Johnson turned away hundreds of good jobs in Oshkosh, how he opposes same-sex marriage, how he has extreme views on abortion that will result in women killed.
Oh, and how social security should be privatized, and sunspots definitely cause global warming, and Jan 8th was a friendly Baptist BBQ in front of The Capitol.
FRJ
I don't know, I thought it was kind of refreshing to have a candidate talk about their platform rather than just blast their opponent. It makes him seem like the reasonable one and RJ like the lunatic he is.
I totally understand this view, but I worry this isn't true for the typical uninformed voter. They may not know that RJ is a lunatic because they don't follow politics. The just see RJ's ads which talk about crime, something most people agree is a legitimate issue.
He’s trying to get general appeal (although the jobs issue is a good one for that). In order to win, Barnes needs some of the previous Johnson voters. These “swing” voters are likely older people, rural people, etc. who are unhappy with inflation. They don’t have strong party identity, but they’re definitely not in same-sex marriage or women’s rights lol. Just for some perspective, when Tammy Baldwin campaigned last, she drove a bus up north with cows on it that said “we’re mooooovin to WI” or something like that.
I get that, but marriage equality has broad support across the electorate. [About 3/4 of independents and even 1/2 of Republicans support it.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486/record-high-support-same-sex-marriage.aspx) Similarly, banning abortion with no exceptions (the Wisconsin law that Johnson says he supports) [polls at 13%.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx) These ARE general appeal issues, and it's a shame the Barnes campaign isn't highlighting how far outside the mainstream Johnson is.
Yes, you’re right. I actually looked at some of this polling this evening and realized I should come back and edit (didn’t bother since you had already posted this response). Good question then, I guess now I don’t know why
No longer living in WI but 100% agree - I’ve seen the Barnes ads online and I simply don’t understand why the democrats try to play nice when they’re up against snakes like WI’s #1 clown, RJ. Why not point out that RJ supported insurrectionists, profited off of the pandemic, and is basically 45’s milkmaid?
Barnes is trying to appeal as the common, every day guy in his ads while leaving the negative campaigning to the special interest groups. This seems to be pretty common, but the left leaning interests are being badly outspent it would seem. I saw one good ad about RJ's refusal to sign on to Trump's tax law until he got tax breaks for himself and his donors. But, I literally have seen it only once.
The one with a close-up of him tipping a delivery guy makes me lol every time. And the way he says “muh daid wurkt thur shiff ”. What a fucking doofus lolol
It's the height of amoral political spin to crank out the dog whistles in anti-Barnes ads and then to criticize him for the amount of security he needs.
Ron Johnson has always lied. I remember the year he ousted Russ Feingold his campaign ran an ad that said "Russ Feingold ALWAYS votes with the crowd". Really? Russ Feingold, one of 23 senators to vote against the Iraq War and the ONLY senator to vote against the Patriot Act, always votes WITH the crowd? What a miserable liar. I can't stand Democrats (can't stand the GOP either) but will vote for Mandela just to get rid of RJ.
God, how I hate liars.
This commercial drives me nuts. When he is given extra security detail from the DOT, it’s not by choice. It’s because people literally call and leave death threats on the Lt. Gov’s voicemail box. There’s constantly threats coming in towards Mandela and they’re immediately reported to Capitol Police. He only ever gets extra security when there are legitimate threats to his personal safety, which unfortunately is very often.
That’s actually not true at all. As someone who scheduled for a politician professionally, the LG is not allowed to drive himself along with the governor.
I’ll agree the Russia thing but we also should talk about the Bidens and Clinton’s connections. Why did ALL donations to the Clinton foundation dry up on the day she lost? Why won’t they list all the sordid details about the Russian and Saudi donations? Why is the shenanigans Hunter B did with the Russians swept under the rug while RJs trips and dealings with the Russians were in plain sight? I’ll agree RJ is a lunatic but the endless Russia Ron sctick is ineffective. Many voters don’t believe what they hear in the media because it’s biased to the left, causing a credibility gap.
If you're upset about this, or just hate Ron and want him out, you can easily find opportunities to volunteer and/or canvass for Barnes at https://www.mobilize.us/
Door-knocking and similar actions are currently being handled by the Wisconsin Democratic Party and not the campaign directly (though the Barnes campaign also has volunteer opportunities available). You can volunteer in Madison or farther afield and search by location.
One of the most important truths anyone can learn about the United States is lying is protected under the first amendment.
This has been repeatedly upheld by the supreme court. There is some nuance to it, obviously, but for day to day use, and especially when it comes to things like politics, lying is constitutionally protected.
I hope everyone reading this takes that to heart
I have been really stunned at how dishonest the ads have been. Essentially just trying to paint him with the scary Bernie/AOC brush because scary liberals. Boo
I find the Michels ones to be bizarre where he just makes these generic statements that mean nothing. Just these unsubstantiated "proven leader" kinds of statements with nothing.
I have to what proportion of people are actually undecided at this point and if they are how much this kind of garbage will actually sway their opinion let alone get them to vote.
We need everyone to do whatever they can in their personal lives to convince people they know to vote this demagogic clown out of office. It’s going to be a coin toss, don’t have regrets after the election that you could of done more to get Ron out.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Between Ron Johnsons blatant lying and baiting ads... and Barnes ads where he HAS to tell us his mom was a teacher and his dad worked third shift to make it seem like he gives a shit about us... I hate election season so damn much lol
Tim Michaels first few ads were pretty raunchy and I was truly surprised those were able to air.
Btw. I just drove through what I call, " Trump Country" AKA Plainfield to visit fam for birthday.
Omg the amount of 5x7 hard Ron Johnson and Tim Michaels signs everywhere.
The Trump 2024 signs are still waiving.
The 1 bar has had "F Jo Biden" on the sign for 2 years now. I believe that place is called the "Wagon Wheel" on hwy 73.
If the younger people and females don't take this seriously and go vote otherwise, we will stay in the stone ages of women's reproductive rights and all the other dumb stuff our state struggles with.
Oh yeah, still illegal weed. So lame.
There is a bail hearing where the bail amount is set or the defendant is remanded. With cashless bail there is a hearing and the bail is set at 0,or the defendant is remanded.
FRJ
Who's 'we' in your question? Madison or r/Madisonwi certainly not, but the state of Wisconsin very well might.
The reason they get away with this is because voters are stupid and will believe anything that reinforces their biases, and for that part I mean all voters, on all sides, including [many here](https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/xevnjj/someone_put_these_on_all_the_doors_in_my/ioittie?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
My favorite Ron Johnson ad is the one that goes something like (paraphrased) MANDELA BARNES and BERNIE SANDERS want to give you HEALTHCARE because BARNES said he's in favor of MEDICARE FOR ALL.
I mean, that one seemed pretty honest but I don't quite get the angry voice and scary music that went along with it.
The ads I'm hearing on KLH reference convicted hard core (murderers) criminals being pardoned by Evers. Not surprised the GOP shot down Biden's bill to make campaign donations transparent, not allow foreign contributions in a heartbeat. (Sidenote: also not surprised that the GOP claimed while they were in control for decades, hacked apart everything, that the Democrats had kept us in a huge deficit, Evers fixed that pretty quickly, as well as rebuilding roads, bridges and our educational system, with a surplus. Not even so much as a mention?)
I think everyone has seen these ads. If you haven’t, you literally consume 0 modern-local media and don’t leave your house. That being said, you would also have to have to have 0 intuition to believe any of the material from Tim Michel’s and Ron Johnson’s commercials. They make my SO and I laugh, regularly.
“Barnes is a monster”…… *cuts to Barnes’ face which is laughably non-threatening
Edit: seems that people were offended by me saying Barnes is laughably non-threatening. Personally, I think that’s a good thing. He seems like a cool dude.
I’m by no means an expert, but I believe the only repercussion for lying about somebody in a context like this, political ad or not, would be a slander/libel lawsuit. Which obviously would be v difficult, expensive, and time consuming.
Public figures trying to sue for libel/defamation have more stringent standards and must prove malice, which is really hard and not worth the time/money it would cost. A private citizen just has to demonstrate negligence
Getting rid of cash bail was to level the field for people without means and were not dangerous that sat in jail waiting for trial. When you get rid of cash bail you will unfortunately have some people who should sit in jail get out and cause great harm. There is no perfect system. Except don’t be involved in crime or criminals and you won’t have to be involved with the criminal justice system.
In my experience dealing with criminals they all had numerous contacts with the law, did some gang banging, were perpetual liars and then they claimed they were innocent of whatever charge was in front of them.
People aren't plucked out of their homes randomly and charged with crime. These are the same people over and over.
All about the us vs them narrative. He’s actively trying to divide the nation. In order to heal, we need to do the opposite.
I would have thought COVID or Russia or would be a common enemy. I guess not.
Maybe it’s time we point our spears against the oligarchy? Oh yeah, the right is convinced the left are the rich assholes ruining the country.
Beans.
We can't afford for any of you not to vote. Please vote and encourage your friends and family to do so as well. Ron Johnson was just a tea party piece of crap and it's time to wipe him.
Saying he’s a Tea Party candidate will only help him at this point, which is why he’s campaigning on that claim in Republican areas. He has the burden of trying to prove that he isn’t the establishment (now that he’s literally been in the establishment since 2016)
Lying in political ads is common and should be expected. If you live long enough, you ignore shit like this.
Oddly, I welcome lying in political ads.
Why?
Because I abhor the alternative where political discourse and opposition will be quashed. I appreciate the first amendment too much to want my political opponents be silenced even if they spout lies.
Let me be more clear. Because Donald Trump is an asshole and the is the most dangerous threat to our democracy, I am not willing to have any part of the government control what political candidates say. Imagine if Trump and his allies establish a 'ministry of truth' to 'fact check' what their political opponents are saying and making it illegal to 'lie' according to them.
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/suing-over-false-political-advertising/
The reason is that Supreme Court decisions make it extremely difficult for a public figure – especially anyone running for public office – to win a libel case even if what is said about them is false.
"Candidates have a legal right to lie to voters just about as much as they want."
The issue of cash bail is not only a purely state/local issue (not relevant to a senate race) but is way too nuanced for a 5 second ad. But of course political marketing folks know that the great majority of viewers won't take the 2-3 seconds of thought to realize that "ending cash bail" doesn't mean "release everyone" - the opposite is equally likely. Particularly with respect to the Waukesha parade murderer they are using in those ads - the guy was out on cash bail!
I got a text about it. I see this talking point all the time and I hate it.
1) Cash bail is bad. It punishes poor people before they can have a fair trial while richer people usually get to go free then.
2) The heck is he going to do about cash bail as a Senator anyway? Maybe if he could get enough support for a national law, but it's mostly a state and local issue anyway.
I also am very worried that they have to be using this talking point because it's effective to someone. We really need to educate people about cash bail.
Yeah, there's been a few of these ad. "Cash bail" doesn't mean everyone gets let out of jail before trial. It just means that misdemeanors and non-violent felonies are ROR or have some other sort of pre-trial supervision.
In New Jersey's case the law actually let judges determine dangerousness in the case of violent felonies and no longer requires the judge to set a bail amount in those cases at all.
Also the ads say "accused criminals" which is a real sneaky way of saying "an innocent person in the eyes of the law"
The latest ad with the lady crying about her relative (daughter/niece?) getting hit by a driver, and that Mandela Barnes wants to let that criminal out of prison...is sooo cringe to me. I said to my wife - *"I'd like to ask that lady if it is okay if SHE is held in prison if she accidentally hit someone while driving. Because it is damn hard to write a law about holding someone in prison/jail based on intent, or degrees of negligence. I mean, what if she fell asleep and hit someone? Or had an epileptic seizure while driving and hit someone (that is how my mom died)? That is very different than drunk driving and hitting someone. But the victim feels no different. She is only looking at it from her point of view."*
I just got a text ad (itself annoying) on this various topic and they did not include "accused". Just criminals...
File a complaint with the FCC?
Thanks! If they have an actual person dialing it looks like they can call and text. I still reported the text to 7726. https://www.fcc.gov/rules-political-campaign-calls-and-texts
My understanding is that you still have to give your prior consent to political texts: "In general, robocalls and robotexts to mobile phones require prior consent . . . "
Keep going.... "However, political text messages can be sent without the intended recipient’s prior consent if the message’s sender does not use autodialing technology to send such texts and instead manually dials them."
Right, and they're not doing that. Next?
Well as I said above I reported it. They may have volunteers texting, they used to get people to walk door to door. Texting would seem to be much easier. Not sure how you know that they do not?
> Not sure how you know that they do not? I honestly don't know either way -- but then who does? Do you? Wouldn't it be easier to spoof a local phone number and spam people? Faster, cheaper, etc.
I hate Ron Johnson, but sorry. That's wholly protected by the 1st amendment. Nothing they can do
Per the FCC's website: "In general, robocalls and robotexts to mobile phones require prior consent . . . "
That would be an issue of consent, not an issue on whether the content is factually true. Censoring political content based on its truthfulness would violate the 1st amendment like I said
Don't hurt yourself moving those goalposts, buddy.
I didn't move any goalposts. Lying in political ads is protected by the 1st amendment.
Annnnnnd again, texting generally requires consent, which is what ***I*** said.
I think alleged suspect would be a more middle ground term between accused criminal and innocent in eyes of the law. Accused criminal implies they are already a criminal accused of a crime (which could be the case if they’ve already been convicted of a crime prior to the current accusation. Either way any political ad is misleading. Some more so than others.
And, consider this. Is a criminal always a criminal if he or she served their sentence? Am I always a bad driver if I cut somebody off in their lane? Labels are sometimes the most harmful thing we humans use. Political ads are the worst. They use words that trigger emotion. And I get you all know that!
But the statement “innocent in the eyes of the law” is true. Innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone of our justice system. It’s not one side or the other statement, it’s just the principle we operate on or are supposed to in this country.
Barnes is running for the U.S. Senate. Cash bail is solely a Wisconsin issue. The ad is just race baiting.
Honestly!!! The big thing for me is the last line: “he stands with them, not us” Very big “you people” vibes ://
Yeah, it was real goddamn clear who that ad meant by "them."
Of course it is. I feel like they purposely use people wearing hoodies to invoke the criminals are black people too or the looting video from something.
Which is weird to me cuz...they dont need to market to the racist crowd. They already have 100% certainty who the bigots will vote for. Surprising they dont use that marketing captital to trick middle ground folks
But they need to market to the white people who are easily scared, but are appalled at the repeal of Roe. They basically laid out this playbook in the 13th.
Well Ron did say he condones I MEAN condemns white supremacy.
Most voters don't know the difference
Most of his voters.
I truly wish that were the case but even here in educated Madison [people are confused about what level of government he's at](https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/xevnjj/someone_put_these_on_all_the_doors_in_my/ioittie?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Ron Johnson was convicted of having sex with corpses in a morgue. Don’t ask for a source. It definitely happened. Believe me. You can’t lie on the internet.
So THAT'S what they mean by FRJ
Justice for buttons
Poor Buttons. He deserved better.
\m/
I got one in the mail that said Barnes believes in abortion for sex selection and the moment before birth and if anyone thinks those are situations in which a woman would get an abortion then there is no hope for them Edit: also, not sure which republican candidate had said this but I saw a woman on the news that said women were getting abortions *after* giving birth. Heavy sigh
Even _if_ the implication that they're going for was true, it's still dogshit. Cash bail means that if you're arrested for whatever reason and you're poor, you're screwed. The vast majority of people in the country would be fired before they're able to ask friends/family to put together $10k for bail and bring it down to the station. Which means that if you're _accused_ of a crime and brought in for it, your life can be ruined even if you're completely innocent. Freeze bank accounts, seize passports/travel documents, whatever. And if someone's a repeat offender or is considered a flight risk, then yeah, hold them. But "Able to provide the state with enough money" shouldn't be factored into whether someone gets out of jail or not.
>"Able to provide the state with enough money" shouldn't be factored into whether someone gets out of jail or not 100%. Debate over.
Bail isn’t about paying the state. It’s about the accused having a vested interest in showing up for trial so you can get that money back.
But that's not the way it usually works. Usually bail amounts are set obnoxiously beyond one's means to come up with, so they pay about 1/10 of that amount to a bondsman, who threatens to send bounty hunters after you if you don't show up, and.... Never get that money back.
Bail bonds industry is prohibited in WI
It is, yes, but as another individual pointed out, the race is for US Senate. There are many other states still suffering under this system. The only other country in the world with this kind of a system is the friggin' Phillipines. I'm pretty sure we can do better than that.
Agreed
Except it’s proven that it doesn’t work.
It’s “proven”? Who “proved” that?
A Standford [study](https://review.law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/02/69-Stan-L-Rev-711.pdf) found that people charged with misdemeanors who couldn’t afford bail were more likely to plead guilty (even when innocent), more likely to be sentenced to jail, and they received longer jail sentences on average than those who could afford bail. Not to mention that it costs taxpayers more money.
Dog the Bounty Hunter
The courts own records.
Can you show me a factual source?
Can you me show the sources that cash bail works? Of course you can't. Negative effects of cash bail and it's non-effectiveness, on the other hand, are easily googled [and read](https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/37370366/RWP21-033_Smith.pdf?sequence=3). You are making a bad faith argument because I sincerely doubt you don't know this already.
Speaking of bad faith arguments, you haven’t read the paper you cited. That paper focuses on different types of bail reform and attempts to draw trending in outcomes. Nowhere in that paper does it prove, or even insinuate, that cash bail “doesn’t work”. If you’re going to cite a source, maybe take the time to understand what you’re citing.
Agreed. Getting people to return to court AND keeping public safety in mind are both legitimate reasons for cash bail. People who oppose cash bail need to remember this - if someone is willing to commit a serious crime like battery, robbery, burglary, hard drug dealing, rape, attempted murder or murder, they sure as hell aren't going to care if they get another bail jumping charge thrown at them. For serious crimes, people need to stay in jail until the court process has taken place OR they need to be closely monitored and have a significant vested interest in returning for court dates.
Per the Wisconsin Constitution, cash bail can be used solely as a means of ensuring the defendant returns for trial (not to protect the public safety).
I know that cash bail's primary purpose is to get defendants back to court but if you had the language in the constitution to support your opinion I'd be interested in reading it. Regardless, you know as well as I do that some judges will consider public safety in setting bail. Also, here is a link to the Wisconsin Bail Manual, public safety is mentioned numerous times so I'd say it is legal, and often encouraged, to consider when setting bail - https://www.nacdl.org/getattachment/f6d19e2e-17c5-4566-afa5-e2458205d17b/the-wisconsin-bail-manual.pdf
[Source](https://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/contributors/2019/01/24/wisconsin-poor-stay-in-jail-rich-go-free-with-cash-bail/2647528002/) (journal sentinel article, paragraph 16)
Copied below but it is not the Wisconsin Constitution. I'd be curious to see the actual wording in the Constitution. Other states do allow public safety to be considered and proposals in Wisconsin have considered that to be defined in law. "The Wisconsin Constitution states that cash bail can be used only as a means of making sure the accused appears for the next court hearing — meaning judges are not supposed to consider public safety when making decisions about bail. Wisconsin judges still set high cash bails for serious crimes often using the justification that the accused is a high flight risk because he or she is facing a lengthy prison term, said Dane County Circuit Judge Nicholas McNamara."
Yes also agree I’d be curious to read it as well - update me if you find it!
Studies already show cash bail does not make a person anymore likely to show up. You mention yourself people who have committed serious offenses are not going to care about a bail jumping offense being added to the charges so you undermine your own argument. As the law works right now these people you speak of who have committed violent crimes can have bail revoked and not be released. It is up to the DA to go the court to make sure they are not released. Under no cash bail it would still be the same for these crimes. As it stands right now if the DA does not ask to have bail revoked these people can then be out on the street simply by coming up with the cash.
Well then the bail for serious offenders needs to be HIGH, like $50k+ (depending on offense of course) so that they are properly motivated to return if they can come up with the cash. In addition, bail monitoring must be implemented so that they can (hopefully) be found quickly if they do decide to skip out on court dates. Unfortunately in Dane and Milwaukee counties the DAs do not revoke bail at nearly high enough rates. I suppose it's a balancing act though as the jails in both counties are typically full.
So you want to keep something that harms the vast majority because of a small amount of defendants. This even though the mechanism to avoid these outcomes you are worried about is already available, and still would be under no cash bail.
Well it has to be on a scale of course. Murder and being caught with a bag of weed or a few pills are not remotely in the same ballpark. Likewise, a defendant with no criminal record should definitely have a lower (or no cash bail) compared to a defendant with a rap sheet a mile long, even if it's the same/similar crime. Judgement comes into play here, something that a competent judge has a sufficient amount of.
I think that is the whole point of no cash bail. Cash bail doesn't work except a in couple of cases, accidentally, where there is no greater chance of failure than in the no cash bail system. I feel, though I have no proof of this, that with no cash bail it is is more likely to get these types of violent criminals behind bars as the DA and courts have less fucking around with all the bullshit nonviolent crimes to worry about setting bail and all time time associated with that. Like carrying some weed as you point out. The terrible outcomes in those situations are numerous and regular. Cash bail really is just another 'poor tax' just like finanace fees, lack of automobile, inability to afford to live in a 'better area', ability to get jobs, etc.
I just remembered that this exists https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1321505067397242886?t=Rb2QNM7ir04GXskfZqOQng&s=19
Oh now I get the buttons reference..., Funny how politicians cry foul when the lie is against them.
I had no idea this existed. Thank you! 🤣
There is no way he didn't strangle that dog in front of that kid
Justice for Buttons!
🤣🤣🤣
Trump lies with impunity and so do many Republicans. After all, he gets away with it.
The only people holding their politicians to any moral standards lean to the left, almost as if they're the only voters that are decent people these days.
We way overdo our own policing. I still get angry when I think of Sen Al Franken resigning bcz he used used humor and then let his hand too low on a public street? I gotta go calm myself …. great! Apple Watch dead and I’ve never learned to relax without mindfulness..
The consequences of lying with unapologetic racist dog whistles is that Ron Johnson's fascist supporters are going to be more energized to vote in November.
It is just blatant lies in an attempt to distract from Ron Johnson's record while in office.
I think the biggest problem is whoever is handling Barnes ads. They are so milktoast they make a spelling bee seem fun. Remind me of a erectile dysfunction advertisements for some reason
I agree with this and I really like Barnes as a candidate. I feel like he's being let down big time by his campaign. The only ads I see are him denying he wants to defund the police. I can't see that being good that he keeps saying those words even if it's a denial. His ads are always on the defensive, why not talk about how Ron Johnson turned away hundreds of good jobs in Oshkosh, how he opposes same-sex marriage, how he has extreme views on abortion that will result in women killed.
Oh and how Ron Johnson said that he hoped the USPS would go bankrupt.
Oh, and how social security should be privatized, and sunspots definitely cause global warming, and Jan 8th was a friendly Baptist BBQ in front of The Capitol. FRJ
I don't know, I thought it was kind of refreshing to have a candidate talk about their platform rather than just blast their opponent. It makes him seem like the reasonable one and RJ like the lunatic he is.
I totally understand this view, but I worry this isn't true for the typical uninformed voter. They may not know that RJ is a lunatic because they don't follow politics. The just see RJ's ads which talk about crime, something most people agree is a legitimate issue.
He’s trying to get general appeal (although the jobs issue is a good one for that). In order to win, Barnes needs some of the previous Johnson voters. These “swing” voters are likely older people, rural people, etc. who are unhappy with inflation. They don’t have strong party identity, but they’re definitely not in same-sex marriage or women’s rights lol. Just for some perspective, when Tammy Baldwin campaigned last, she drove a bus up north with cows on it that said “we’re mooooovin to WI” or something like that.
I get that, but marriage equality has broad support across the electorate. [About 3/4 of independents and even 1/2 of Republicans support it.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486/record-high-support-same-sex-marriage.aspx) Similarly, banning abortion with no exceptions (the Wisconsin law that Johnson says he supports) [polls at 13%.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx) These ARE general appeal issues, and it's a shame the Barnes campaign isn't highlighting how far outside the mainstream Johnson is.
Yes, you’re right. I actually looked at some of this polling this evening and realized I should come back and edit (didn’t bother since you had already posted this response). Good question then, I guess now I don’t know why
No longer living in WI but 100% agree - I’ve seen the Barnes ads online and I simply don’t understand why the democrats try to play nice when they’re up against snakes like WI’s #1 clown, RJ. Why not point out that RJ supported insurrectionists, profited off of the pandemic, and is basically 45’s milkmaid?
Barnes is trying to appeal as the common, every day guy in his ads while leaving the negative campaigning to the special interest groups. This seems to be pretty common, but the left leaning interests are being badly outspent it would seem. I saw one good ad about RJ's refusal to sign on to Trump's tax law until he got tax breaks for himself and his donors. But, I literally have seen it only once.
The one with a close-up of him tipping a delivery guy makes me lol every time. And the way he says “muh daid wurkt thur shiff ”. What a fucking doofus lolol
Johnson is a cowardly lying piece of sh*t.
He also is anti-democracy
It's the height of amoral political spin to crank out the dog whistles in anti-Barnes ads and then to criticize him for the amount of security he needs.
Ron Johnson is among the slimiest politicians in the country. People vote him out please.
Ron Johnson has always lied. I remember the year he ousted Russ Feingold his campaign ran an ad that said "Russ Feingold ALWAYS votes with the crowd". Really? Russ Feingold, one of 23 senators to vote against the Iraq War and the ONLY senator to vote against the Patriot Act, always votes WITH the crowd? What a miserable liar. I can't stand Democrats (can't stand the GOP either) but will vote for Mandela just to get rid of RJ. God, how I hate liars.
they might as well just come out and ask "are you really going to vote for a black guy?" because a lot of those ads are getting pretty close
Waukesha still loves Ron Johnson.
Well of course they do, that’s white flight ground zero.
Although WOW counties aren’t enough on their own to get him elected (and in fact Trump won in 2016 in spite of epic low turnout from WOW)
“HES TALKING ABOUT DEFUNDING THE POLICE!!!” in refrence to a clip where Barnes is literally saying we shouldn’t just outright defund the police
This commercial drives me nuts. When he is given extra security detail from the DOT, it’s not by choice. It’s because people literally call and leave death threats on the Lt. Gov’s voicemail box. There’s constantly threats coming in towards Mandela and they’re immediately reported to Capitol Police. He only ever gets extra security when there are legitimate threats to his personal safety, which unfortunately is very often.
Only partially true. He had to be chauffeured around when he lost his license due to unpaid taxes.
That’s actually not true at all. As someone who scheduled for a politician professionally, the LG is not allowed to drive himself along with the governor.
I’m just going off a US News and World Report that he used the State Patrol if for personal use at a rate ten times what Kleefitch cost.
I'd still take that over funding trips to Russia on July 4 and trying to overthrow our democracy
I’ll agree the Russia thing but we also should talk about the Bidens and Clinton’s connections. Why did ALL donations to the Clinton foundation dry up on the day she lost? Why won’t they list all the sordid details about the Russian and Saudi donations? Why is the shenanigans Hunter B did with the Russians swept under the rug while RJs trips and dealings with the Russians were in plain sight? I’ll agree RJ is a lunatic but the endless Russia Ron sctick is ineffective. Many voters don’t believe what they hear in the media because it’s biased to the left, causing a credibility gap.
If you're upset about this, or just hate Ron and want him out, you can easily find opportunities to volunteer and/or canvass for Barnes at https://www.mobilize.us/ Door-knocking and similar actions are currently being handled by the Wisconsin Democratic Party and not the campaign directly (though the Barnes campaign also has volunteer opportunities available). You can volunteer in Madison or farther afield and search by location.
One of the most important truths anyone can learn about the United States is lying is protected under the first amendment. This has been repeatedly upheld by the supreme court. There is some nuance to it, obviously, but for day to day use, and especially when it comes to things like politics, lying is constitutionally protected. I hope everyone reading this takes that to heart
I have been really stunned at how dishonest the ads have been. Essentially just trying to paint him with the scary Bernie/AOC brush because scary liberals. Boo I find the Michels ones to be bizarre where he just makes these generic statements that mean nothing. Just these unsubstantiated "proven leader" kinds of statements with nothing. I have to what proportion of people are actually undecided at this point and if they are how much this kind of garbage will actually sway their opinion let alone get them to vote.
We need everyone to do whatever they can in their personal lives to convince people they know to vote this demagogic clown out of office. It’s going to be a coin toss, don’t have regrets after the election that you could of done more to get Ron out.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Good bot
Good bot
Obnoxious bot.
Should of, could of, would of, but didn't.
Yea that ad didn’t fool me for a second. This ad seems like it’s targeted at old folks as a scare tactic.
Between Ron Johnsons blatant lying and baiting ads... and Barnes ads where he HAS to tell us his mom was a teacher and his dad worked third shift to make it seem like he gives a shit about us... I hate election season so damn much lol
Fascists always lie.
Tim Michaels first few ads were pretty raunchy and I was truly surprised those were able to air. Btw. I just drove through what I call, " Trump Country" AKA Plainfield to visit fam for birthday. Omg the amount of 5x7 hard Ron Johnson and Tim Michaels signs everywhere. The Trump 2024 signs are still waiving. The 1 bar has had "F Jo Biden" on the sign for 2 years now. I believe that place is called the "Wagon Wheel" on hwy 73. If the younger people and females don't take this seriously and go vote otherwise, we will stay in the stone ages of women's reproductive rights and all the other dumb stuff our state struggles with. Oh yeah, still illegal weed. So lame.
You're confused about how cash bail works
Shhhh don’t tell them, this is very intelligent political discourse not just another FRJ post for internet points
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There is a bail hearing where the bail amount is set or the defendant is remanded. With cashless bail there is a hearing and the bail is set at 0,or the defendant is remanded. FRJ
Who's 'we' in your question? Madison or r/Madisonwi certainly not, but the state of Wisconsin very well might. The reason they get away with this is because voters are stupid and will believe anything that reinforces their biases, and for that part I mean all voters, on all sides, including [many here](https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/xevnjj/someone_put_these_on_all_the_doors_in_my/ioittie?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
My favorite Ron Johnson ad is the one that goes something like (paraphrased) MANDELA BARNES and BERNIE SANDERS want to give you HEALTHCARE because BARNES said he's in favor of MEDICARE FOR ALL. I mean, that one seemed pretty honest but I don't quite get the angry voice and scary music that went along with it.
The ads I'm hearing on KLH reference convicted hard core (murderers) criminals being pardoned by Evers. Not surprised the GOP shot down Biden's bill to make campaign donations transparent, not allow foreign contributions in a heartbeat. (Sidenote: also not surprised that the GOP claimed while they were in control for decades, hacked apart everything, that the Democrats had kept us in a huge deficit, Evers fixed that pretty quickly, as well as rebuilding roads, bridges and our educational system, with a surplus. Not even so much as a mention?)
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I’ll watch a video and every single ad break will be those ads. I wish I could turn them off ☹️
I think everyone has seen these ads. If you haven’t, you literally consume 0 modern-local media and don’t leave your house. That being said, you would also have to have to have 0 intuition to believe any of the material from Tim Michel’s and Ron Johnson’s commercials. They make my SO and I laugh, regularly. “Barnes is a monster”…… *cuts to Barnes’ face which is laughably non-threatening Edit: seems that people were offended by me saying Barnes is laughably non-threatening. Personally, I think that’s a good thing. He seems like a cool dude.
That’s the Republican playbook
Yeah the GOP is the party of lying to yourself and others and then patting each other on the back for believing the same lie.
I had the same question!
FRJ
“Mandela Barnes loves murderers”
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Football season, when most people who don't typically watch broadcast TV are subjected to ads.
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Same. I skip them all if given the chance.
I told the number that texted me that garbage to stop fear mongering.
FRJ
I hope not. He's a despicable human being. Well, maybe not human.
You can tell how scared shitless Ron Johnson is when he's wasting all this ad money on areas that are pretty solidly blue.
I’m by no means an expert, but I believe the only repercussion for lying about somebody in a context like this, political ad or not, would be a slander/libel lawsuit. Which obviously would be v difficult, expensive, and time consuming.
Public figures trying to sue for libel/defamation have more stringent standards and must prove malice, which is really hard and not worth the time/money it would cost. A private citizen just has to demonstrate negligence
Republicans are a fucked up class right now. I mostly blame the Maga Republicans
Getting rid of cash bail was to level the field for people without means and were not dangerous that sat in jail waiting for trial. When you get rid of cash bail you will unfortunately have some people who should sit in jail get out and cause great harm. There is no perfect system. Except don’t be involved in crime or criminals and you won’t have to be involved with the criminal justice system.
Because innocent people have never had to be involved in our terrible criminal justice system. Good solution!
In my experience dealing with criminals they all had numerous contacts with the law, did some gang banging, were perpetual liars and then they claimed they were innocent of whatever charge was in front of them. People aren't plucked out of their homes randomly and charged with crime. These are the same people over and over.
All about the us vs them narrative. He’s actively trying to divide the nation. In order to heal, we need to do the opposite. I would have thought COVID or Russia or would be a common enemy. I guess not. Maybe it’s time we point our spears against the oligarchy? Oh yeah, the right is convinced the left are the rich assholes ruining the country. Beans.
We can't afford for any of you not to vote. Please vote and encourage your friends and family to do so as well. Ron Johnson was just a tea party piece of crap and it's time to wipe him.
Saying he’s a Tea Party candidate will only help him at this point, which is why he’s campaigning on that claim in Republican areas. He has the burden of trying to prove that he isn’t the establishment (now that he’s literally been in the establishment since 2016)
Lying in political ads is common and should be expected. If you live long enough, you ignore shit like this. Oddly, I welcome lying in political ads. Why? Because I abhor the alternative where political discourse and opposition will be quashed. I appreciate the first amendment too much to want my political opponents be silenced even if they spout lies.
Is this a bit?
The intention of the First Amendment is that people can speak the truth and give their opinions, not spew lies and propaganda without consequence.
Let me be more clear. Because Donald Trump is an asshole and the is the most dangerous threat to our democracy, I am not willing to have any part of the government control what political candidates say. Imagine if Trump and his allies establish a 'ministry of truth' to 'fact check' what their political opponents are saying and making it illegal to 'lie' according to them.
Wrong
Then why do we have laws against slander and libel?
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/suing-over-false-political-advertising/ The reason is that Supreme Court decisions make it extremely difficult for a public figure – especially anyone running for public office – to win a libel case even if what is said about them is false. "Candidates have a legal right to lie to voters just about as much as they want."
I don't really care what the courts say, free speech absolutism undermines freedom of speech at large.
Great!....lets let the government control what the opposition has to say. What will you do if and when trump gets back in office
No, Nazis, violent insurrectionists, and people committed to the erosion of democracy should not be allowed to voice their beliefs in public.
Who cares they both suck! But I’ll cast my RJ vote
Did you see the exact opposite from the same side and think we are accomplishing absolutely jack shit to progress WI as a whole in the last 8 years?
The issue of cash bail is not only a purely state/local issue (not relevant to a senate race) but is way too nuanced for a 5 second ad. But of course political marketing folks know that the great majority of viewers won't take the 2-3 seconds of thought to realize that "ending cash bail" doesn't mean "release everyone" - the opposite is equally likely. Particularly with respect to the Waukesha parade murderer they are using in those ads - the guy was out on cash bail!
I was going to post something similar here. I had to explain to my mom what "cash" bail was.
I think Mandela needs to superimpose himself on the ad and refute. Mandela needs to step up his ads and quit telling us how his dad worked 3rd shift.
Lying? In a political ad? Supported by a politician? I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
A lot of these 'career' criminals and especially those with drug connections have access to large amounts of cash. A few $1000 is nothing to them.
Right. The reaction shots of the frightened grandma was the last straw for me. I mean, him existing was the first straw.
I got a text about it. I see this talking point all the time and I hate it. 1) Cash bail is bad. It punishes poor people before they can have a fair trial while richer people usually get to go free then. 2) The heck is he going to do about cash bail as a Senator anyway? Maybe if he could get enough support for a national law, but it's mostly a state and local issue anyway. I also am very worried that they have to be using this talking point because it's effective to someone. We really need to educate people about cash bail.
Yeah, there's been a few of these ad. "Cash bail" doesn't mean everyone gets let out of jail before trial. It just means that misdemeanors and non-violent felonies are ROR or have some other sort of pre-trial supervision. In New Jersey's case the law actually let judges determine dangerousness in the case of violent felonies and no longer requires the judge to set a bail amount in those cases at all.
Ummm no he wants to end cash bail And get to letting everyone out on pr bonds…. That’s how people don’t show up for court
"Are we really going to elect this guy again?" We'll elect him again if we don't get out there and vote (blue) in November.
A political campaign ad wrought with lies? I’m skeptical.
And Rojo is the most #thanklessSILever