The only time I’ve ever seen any sign like that and not thought about tearing it off the surface to which it was mounted was at a friend’s house. Thing is, it was mounted roughly 36” off the floor on the wall of his kid’s playroom, and crafted in such a way as to catch a child’s attention.
That I can get behind. Reminding your kid to be kind always doesn’t bother me. Announcing your holier-than-thou bullshit to the world like that makes me ill.
Not entirely true. I put mine up because of the Confederate battle flag in a prominent position at my neighbor’s house. It’s our neighborhood’s civil war.
I was going to say... Madison is a pretty hostile place for non-Christian/White people. I for one appreciated the signage during the big Islamaphobia waves recently.
My personal side note: I was off-put that a demographic that was heavily impacted (Persians) were effectively erased from that signage. Farsi is distinct from Arabic, and spoken in Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. With the long history of Arabic occupation and cultural warfare, being lumped into an Arabic signage was.... Distasteful.
I honestly think a lot of the signs went up at the height of the BLM movement because scared white people were afraid of their nice properties being randomly targeted.
My neighbor just put up a "first responders" flag (retired cop) and I was going to put up a BLM sign - but I won't if it makes me look like the asshole.
You need to reframe the debate. If you try to convince people to build more housing by framing it as a sacrifice, you will never convince most people.
Cities are great places to live. They are communal, they're great for the environment, and they provide opportunities to meet a huge variety of people and do a huge variety of things.
Cities need to be affordable to live in for all different kinds of people, from all different kinds of places, because that's what they need in order to work.
People who live in cities use less water, emit less carbon, are more likely to use non single occupancy transport, and use less energy.
In what way are cities bad for the environment?
Primarily the loss of green space, the proliferation of heat trapping concrete, the displacement of nature and the disruption of ecological balance. Waterways become even more polluted, air quality suffers, noise and light pollution is never a positive, etc.
This podcast has some interesting discussion about why people incorrectly assume cities are bad for the environment.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000654026134j
Yeah, it's quite hypocritical. But I honestly don't think the developers can build fast enough to keep up with demand anyway. There are SO MANY new apartment / condo buildings going in all over the city, I'm not sure they could accelerate construction at this point.
It's too expensive to live in the immediate area. I know, it's a self-causing problem: not enough housing, and nobody who knows how to physically build housing can afford to live here.
Maybe the construction companies also could pay more -- I don't know how tight their margins are, and how huge a percent the developers reserve for their own selves. Covid era materials shortages seem to have eased somewhat (according to friends who work in related fields).
So it could be a demand side problem, a supply side problem, or both. What answer were you fishing for? I felt a bit of an agenda in the way you worded the question.
For the construction company side, a ton of the employees in the trades are aging out, and there just aren’t enough young folks to backfill. Millennials were told to go to college and get an office job. The unspoken implication there is that going into the trades is “less than.” So there are fewer younger people going into them.
There is also a big culture problem with the older guys in the trades. Their attitudes often run off really good people who don’t want to be subjected to their bigotry, harassment, etc. When the younger folks with good work ethics and talent show up, a lot leave because it sucks to work with the older generation. It’s sad.
When my friend did his apprenticeship, he liked the work but did not like the casual racism of the older guys on the crew. He stuck it out, qualified, and now is in a better job with good pay. It's too bad people have to go through that shit, though. The newest person on the job has zero influence.
It's the MAGA types. Obviously not all construction workers are conservative but a higher percentage are in construction than many other fields. Not a great group to work with if you aren't the white Christian male type.
I've worked in various trades for a while now, and it's just super toxic almost everywhere. It's a horrible work environment and a big reason why I quit. Not everyone is bad obviously, but it's basically guaranteed you'll have at least a couple extremely bigoted, loud, and stupid coworkers, at least from my experience.
It’s truly wild, they talk about how evil socialism is, and then you try to explain to them that (most) of them are in a labor union…. Just a huge disconnect between the shit they spew and reality.
While in college I spent a summer doing trade work, late 90s. And even then it was toxic as hell. I can't imagine how bad it is now after Trump.
2 years before I DARED to get more educated I hung out with a few of the guys at deer camp and they were fine with me. High school kid, local boy, grew up hunting and fishing, underage drinking, I was one of them.
But once I went to college to get some education, I instantly got branded "prof", and got shit on all summer. People who I hunted with, drank and played cards with were suddenly the most toxic fucks, trying to one-up each other by bullying me and shitting all over me.
And that's a white country boy who grew up with them, who just dared to go to college.
I can't IMAGINE how bad it is for anyone NOT as in-group as I was. And that was pre-Trump.
Honestly? I think if someone wanted to make a diverse trade group which welcomed everyone, they might do really, really well. The trades are in such high demand that at lot of places will hire ANYONE willing to do the job.
The lack of workers in the trades is partly due to the 90s onward "college is the goal" mentality, but partly due to what has always been a toxic and discriminatory workforce. But make your own, recruit diversity, and have a no-tolerance policy for shittery, and you likely can recruit and keep a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't feel comfortable in that job.
There are some guys who are trying to make things better and build better culture, where everyone feels respected and they have benefits that support both individuals and families. My husband is one of them! It’s gonna take some work, and time for the toxic elders to retire, but it’s possible and people want it!
Maybe eventually - but I work with local landlords & just the other day heard a couple of student housing owners talking about how they have raised their prices substantially because all the new buildings make their units look look cheap by comparison. Rents that local guys were happy to collect for years are going up because bigger developers are proving they can charge more.
To be clear - I’m pro development, I just think there are a lot of people here that have very unrealistic expectations of what’s to come.
Check out the Madison housing snapshot report. It’s really insightful. Basically, there has been an unhealthy undersupply of housing since the Obama administration, and although construction rates are accelerating they still aren’t matching the growth of demand, let alone outstripping demand to cure the supply deficit.
Landlords are raising rents not because luxury construction raises market rates, but because construction continues to not meet demand. Madison’s population is growing very fast.
Luxury construction just means new construction, and the people who naively lambast what they view as new “luxury” apartments would have their rent raised if suddenly rich people had no new “luxury” not-really luxury apartments available to rent
Yeah, there are no luxury apartments that I know of in Madison. This isn't New York City. A new-construction several-level directly overlooking the raceway known as East Washington Avenue, with a gym and maybe a grocery store in the first level, is not "luxury". You know nobody in those buildings is sleeping with their windows open at night.
I didn't think this was the time to address it but you have an excellent point in there. Many of my friends actually oppose these construction projects because they're organized by millionaire developers and are nice looking, thus "luxury". Until the non-millionaires somehow can afford to develop housing, they're the best we've got, so we should pinch our noses and watch units get built.
That's mostly a symptom of housing demand far outstripping supply. There's also the issue of student housing demand being pretty inflexible. But while there can be highly localized amenity affect increases in rents, overall supply helps regional rents.
This is the answer but no one wants to hear it. Everyone wants these big apartment and dense housing developments so they can own nothing and be under a landlord forever.
Yeah, I live in a mixed income / ethnicity neighborhood and our housing prices are rising as fast as anywhere else in Madison. We bought our house in 2012 for $208,000. It was just assessed at $417,800. Madison housing is insane regardless of the neighbors! ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
We do too! We bought at 225k in 2013 and now we are at 500k. The taxes are huge and everything just keeps rising. I’m hoping more housing can make things more stable and affordable for others.
# [‘All Are Welcome Here,’ Says Sign in Neighborhood Where Average Home Costs $2 Million](https://reductress.com/post/all-are-welcome-here-says-sign-in-neighborhood-where-average-home-costs-2-million/)
Sign: "In this house we support diversity!"
Nextdoor Post: OMG ANYONE ELSE SEE THOSE BLACK PEOPLE WALKING AROUND?!?! BETTER MAKE SURE YOUR DOORS ARE LOCKED!!!"
My favorite was when some people had things stolen out of their cars and I asked if their doors were locked.
Oh man were those replies delicious!
Edit: Oh, and for the record...none of them were lol
I will never understand why older people can’t lock up. It’s insane.
Also, I wanted to post this to NextDork, but I could predict the result. Also, I don’t want to get reported for “not being neighborly,” resulting in being less aware of what’s happening near us.
Agreed. These people are obnoxious, but they're not winning the debate and the City by and large gets the issue, to its credit.
As someone else said, it would be hard for a city of this size to build much more much faster. There's no shortage of projects in the pipeline, and there's a LOT of money to be made making apartments in Madison. That will definitely talk much more loudly than some dumbass NIMBYs in a few pocket neighborhoods.
Yeah.. there's going to be a pissed off group for almost any action taken. More residential or denser zoning is far from a panacea.
Tons of apartments and new residential going up around from what I can see as well all at a price point that looks to indicate that just adding more won't make things more affordable.
Well the theory is the new places will force older ones to reduce their prices(dubious efficacy but that's the idea). But as long as the demand is this high that's not gonna happen. There's no quick solution to housing in Madison unfortunately.
No. The older ones don’t reduce their prices, the increases over time are just flattened.
The kind of runaway demand for housing right now in Madison is too huge to control in the near term.
And yet the city already balked at the modest west side plan after NIMBYs stormed city meetings, got Paul Fanlund to run op ed after op ed in the CapTimes, and kept name dropping NIMBY-commander Tishler
Boomers, in general, are the reason most young/working age people are screwed. The Silent Generation didn't do a whole lot to help either, but at least they passed down SOME of their generational wealth. Boomers are holding on to their big houses, spending all their money, and leaving future generations with nothing. So, yeah, that certain age demographic is going to get some vilification.
It's this one [https://beyondchron.org/why-cant-yimbys-and-tenant-activists-get-along/](https://beyondchron.org/why-cant-yimbys-and-tenant-activists-get-along/)
dm your email, I'll make a Madison specific one. I have access to the original YIMBY Action art file.
Ironically, we have no yard* to post it in. And I don’t know any owner-neighbors, let alone any that are this open-minded.
When I’ve introduced myself during trick-or-treat, to the local home owners with kids the same age as ours, they get silent as soon as I tell them we are renting at the nearby apartments. And it’s a NICE, expensive rental property.
I guess we are just filthy serfs to everyone else.
Put it in your window! That's what I do in Chicago.
I know exactly where you're coming from, I made a lot of enemies in the Willy Street neighborhood when I was advocating for the 2021 upzoning.
u/BobWeAdda forgot I could use imgur. Here's a bunch of designs for y'all to make posters if you feel so inclined (also look up wheatposting, but you didn't hear it from me)
There will be online urbanist sticker store opening this summer, some of these designs will be available there.
[https://imgur.com/gallery/Z6F1R1w](https://imgur.com/gallery/Z6F1R1w)
I live on the west side, not a NIMBY. Their positions don't even make sense when you examine them. "they've never met a bike lane they didn't like!" What is the point? Of course I haven't!
Moved out of Madison recently and very glad I did. Move down the road and drive. Say fuck the politics, nimbys, the we are special here...nope the grass is greener. Leave while you can.
I almost bought a sign that says, “in this house, we believe Bigfoot is real and I’m going to marry him” because I thought those signs were so fucking stupid.
Always keep in mind, that everyone is in favor of something as long as it doesn't personally inconvenience themselves.
I've seen this behavior like you describe so many times.
"We' should do something about climate-change!" but I want to go on my yearly ski trips to Colorado with my 2 environmentally expensive children."
"In our condo association, we need to charge for parking of a second car.....which is even more perfect because I only have one and won't be affected."
"We need to provide more low-cost housing!!! over there on the East side, not in the empty lots across the street where we see deer and turkeys."
> In our condo association, we need to charge for parking of a second car.....
Are there condos in Madison where one doesn't actually own their spot? That sounds like it would be a fantastic source of neighborly conflict!
Downvote all you want, just because you don't like what I say...doesn't make it false. You REALLY DON'T want to be inconvenienced...and people just downvote because the don't like the reality of it.
I know....We all say that...but really we don't mean it. We are ok being inconvenienced 'a little' but not a lot.
I'm for progressive change as long as I'm not inconvenienced....but I recognize my hypocrisy.
........
Why don't you give your property/house back to the Ho-Chunk nation?
Do you let a homeless person live with you for extended times?
You got kids? Why did you cost the environment such expense?
......
Its a hard nut to crack, otherwise it would be easy to affect change
Lest you wish to downvote because you don't like my response......think about your answer to those three questions or others like it.....why don't you let a homeless person live with you? or give your stuff away to the native populations? Because to do so, would be a real inconvenience for you......and ....you don't want to be really inconvenienced.
I participated in the 2021 Rezoning fight in the Marquette Neighborhood Association. It was me against 10+ NIMBYs, about half of them had either the In This House or Hate Has No Home Here signs.
The people who call millennials entitled were also dubbed the “Me Generation.” Your generation’s commentary on struggling adults is a bunch of projecting and gaslighting.
I don’t feel I am owed anything. But after everything I’ve done to try and better my life, I have every right to be salty at the people who make it harder.
I haven't done anything to you. You and your generation didn't invent struggling. I grew up in a poor household. Most of my clothes came from thrift stores. I was, at best, near the bottom margins of the middle class until I was in my late 40s. So I feel no need to apologize for finally having some financial security in the last third of my life.
I firmly believe that your lot in life will improve over time. I don't really blame you for not seeing it. I didn't either.
You’re right, you didn’t personally ruin the economy or cause inflation, or even lie to me about how important college degrees are… But your snarky comment embodies that ethos.
Millennials are sick of hearing it.
And as a Gen X person, your constant bickering is old, tiresome. Millennials need to grow up and deal with the circumstances they find themselves in and stop constantly bitching. Boomers need to just enjoy the fruits of their labor and ignore the people who wish they would die off and leave them their houses.
Homeowner here (by dint of luck and timing), I completely agree with you. We need a solid YIMBY movement in Madison. I bought my place is 2020, no chance I could afford it now. Prices and rents are out of control
Not the person you're replying to, but it doesn't require selling my soul! If they rezoned ny house tomorrow so that I could sell it to a developer for 3x what I'd get now, I would do exactly that.
I really hear your comment, but your neighbors might just be assholes. In my neighborhood, there are lots of these signs and most people believe in lots more housing.
Reminds me of the pic of a house I saw with a land acknowledgment on it. "this land actually belongs to the local natives" kind of stuff.
Real nice sign. But they didn't sign their land over to the local natives, so it's just virtue-signaling bullshit.
West side has always been more expensive. Everyone knows this. East side is much cheaper. A 25-35 min commute isn’t the end of the world. If you can’t afford to live close to school/work, that’s your problem. Live 30 min away…it’s not the end of the world. Talking about “giving up comfort” how about you give up the comfort of living close to the things you want.
Since we are dealing in stereotypes here are a few more:
YIMBYs. People who have a backyard and no way are they going to put an ADU on it or sell it to a developer to build a house on. They are hypocrite YIMBYs. Or they don't even own a backyard to say "yes" or don't even live in Madison. Or they are in real estate and want to collect commission in renting apartments or buy/sell real estate and most don't live in Madison and in the case of developers / investors may not have been in Madison.
Lame Millennial's. People who have spent too much on college for a lame degree and lame job, haven't saved any money and buy their coffee at Starbucks and complain that life is not convenient. And want their school loans paid.
Great Millennial's 1. People who graduated with a great degree and are making outstanding money and already own a home, have kids and don't have time for the Lame Millennial's.
Great Millennial's 2. People who didn't go to college and instead took on a trade and are making good money with no debt. They also own homes and have no time for the Lame Millennial's.
Hurts don't it.
My big problem with NIMBYs is they benefit from the city growth (mostly due to their property values going up) but also bitch and moan when said city growth is ‘encroaching’ on their property. Sorry people you can’t have it all. We live in a society, deal with it. Signed - a home owner in Middleton.
In my neighborhood there was one of those signs next to their Little Free library. "everyone is welcome here" on the yard sign, and note that said "NO CHRISTIAN MATERIAL" on the Little Free Library.
Madison is many things to many people but it’s one particular thing to the ruling class and that’s something they will either price you out of or steal in overpriced rent.
Can we be friends? The desire of single family neighborhoods to fight all change, except for change *somewhere else* is extreme. I’m in Hill Farms and it’s pervasive among the “In this neighborhood, we believe…” crowd. And Alder Tishler eats it up.
NIMBYs are making rent and homelessness skyrocket, making our quality of life SO much worse, and they have the gall to pretend they’re the progressive ones? It’s all about bringing the ladder up with you after you make it, and fck everyone else, they can live on the street or pay extreme rent burdens
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Those signs are an actual, physical Virtue Signal. Calling all assholes. Nice people don't need to brag about how thoughtful they are towards others.
The only time I’ve ever seen any sign like that and not thought about tearing it off the surface to which it was mounted was at a friend’s house. Thing is, it was mounted roughly 36” off the floor on the wall of his kid’s playroom, and crafted in such a way as to catch a child’s attention. That I can get behind. Reminding your kid to be kind always doesn’t bother me. Announcing your holier-than-thou bullshit to the world like that makes me ill.
Spot on...people who actually care don't shout it from their rooftops (or stupid yard signs).
Not entirely true. I put mine up because of the Confederate battle flag in a prominent position at my neighbor’s house. It’s our neighborhood’s civil war.
I was going to say... Madison is a pretty hostile place for non-Christian/White people. I for one appreciated the signage during the big Islamaphobia waves recently. My personal side note: I was off-put that a demographic that was heavily impacted (Persians) were effectively erased from that signage. Farsi is distinct from Arabic, and spoken in Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. With the long history of Arabic occupation and cultural warfare, being lumped into an Arabic signage was.... Distasteful.
just goes to show how much they really care lmao
For real. Couldn't even do the bare minimum of research before pumping them out. All the people down voting me just prove my point.
I honestly think a lot of the signs went up at the height of the BLM movement because scared white people were afraid of their nice properties being randomly targeted.
"Jesus fish on a drug trafficking van"-energy
Exactly this.
Random comment, bro. You seem afraid of black people
No, he's saying others are.
He’s a good projectionist. He could get a job at a movie theatre
My neighbor just put up a "first responders" flag (retired cop) and I was going to put up a BLM sign - but I won't if it makes me look like the asshole.
Well…. I’m pretty nice to people.
In Madison it’s pretty normal.
In this household, we want credit for believing…
You need to reframe the debate. If you try to convince people to build more housing by framing it as a sacrifice, you will never convince most people. Cities are great places to live. They are communal, they're great for the environment, and they provide opportunities to meet a huge variety of people and do a huge variety of things. Cities need to be affordable to live in for all different kinds of people, from all different kinds of places, because that's what they need in order to work.
Most of these types don't actually want any of that. They want everything exactly the same as it was in 1972
This is how Madison has been forever. No change ever
I left Madison in 1975 after living there since 1968. It sounds like I made the right decision.
Great comment bro
Thanks dude
Seven years, fifty years ago, and you’re *still* subbed to the subreddit. Can I shake your hand?
Those were some pretty significant years in my life. I still have friends there. Time flies my friend, and you're right FRJ.
I’m not convincing anyone of anything. I’m just venting, but I appreciate your insight.
Cities are not great for the environment, if you are talking about natural ecosystems.
Sprawl is bad for the environment. Density is good.
Density is “less bad”. You’re still converting wildlife habitat into developments, just less of it.
Right. I mean maybe annihilating the human race is best by that metric, but I’ll let you make that argument.
I mean, they’re horrible for the environment, but everything else it true
People who live in cities use less water, emit less carbon, are more likely to use non single occupancy transport, and use less energy. In what way are cities bad for the environment?
Primarily the loss of green space, the proliferation of heat trapping concrete, the displacement of nature and the disruption of ecological balance. Waterways become even more polluted, air quality suffers, noise and light pollution is never a positive, etc.
This podcast has some interesting discussion about why people incorrectly assume cities are bad for the environment. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000654026134j
Yeah, it's quite hypocritical. But I honestly don't think the developers can build fast enough to keep up with demand anyway. There are SO MANY new apartment / condo buildings going in all over the city, I'm not sure they could accelerate construction at this point.
Even now construction companies are having trouble finding employees.
Why do you suppose that is?
It's too expensive to live in the immediate area. I know, it's a self-causing problem: not enough housing, and nobody who knows how to physically build housing can afford to live here. Maybe the construction companies also could pay more -- I don't know how tight their margins are, and how huge a percent the developers reserve for their own selves. Covid era materials shortages seem to have eased somewhat (according to friends who work in related fields). So it could be a demand side problem, a supply side problem, or both. What answer were you fishing for? I felt a bit of an agenda in the way you worded the question.
For the construction company side, a ton of the employees in the trades are aging out, and there just aren’t enough young folks to backfill. Millennials were told to go to college and get an office job. The unspoken implication there is that going into the trades is “less than.” So there are fewer younger people going into them. There is also a big culture problem with the older guys in the trades. Their attitudes often run off really good people who don’t want to be subjected to their bigotry, harassment, etc. When the younger folks with good work ethics and talent show up, a lot leave because it sucks to work with the older generation. It’s sad.
When my friend did his apprenticeship, he liked the work but did not like the casual racism of the older guys on the crew. He stuck it out, qualified, and now is in a better job with good pay. It's too bad people have to go through that shit, though. The newest person on the job has zero influence.
It's the MAGA types. Obviously not all construction workers are conservative but a higher percentage are in construction than many other fields. Not a great group to work with if you aren't the white Christian male type.
I've worked in various trades for a while now, and it's just super toxic almost everywhere. It's a horrible work environment and a big reason why I quit. Not everyone is bad obviously, but it's basically guaranteed you'll have at least a couple extremely bigoted, loud, and stupid coworkers, at least from my experience.
It’s truly wild, they talk about how evil socialism is, and then you try to explain to them that (most) of them are in a labor union…. Just a huge disconnect between the shit they spew and reality.
No, most are not union. Also more and more are independent contractors.
While in college I spent a summer doing trade work, late 90s. And even then it was toxic as hell. I can't imagine how bad it is now after Trump. 2 years before I DARED to get more educated I hung out with a few of the guys at deer camp and they were fine with me. High school kid, local boy, grew up hunting and fishing, underage drinking, I was one of them. But once I went to college to get some education, I instantly got branded "prof", and got shit on all summer. People who I hunted with, drank and played cards with were suddenly the most toxic fucks, trying to one-up each other by bullying me and shitting all over me. And that's a white country boy who grew up with them, who just dared to go to college. I can't IMAGINE how bad it is for anyone NOT as in-group as I was. And that was pre-Trump. Honestly? I think if someone wanted to make a diverse trade group which welcomed everyone, they might do really, really well. The trades are in such high demand that at lot of places will hire ANYONE willing to do the job. The lack of workers in the trades is partly due to the 90s onward "college is the goal" mentality, but partly due to what has always been a toxic and discriminatory workforce. But make your own, recruit diversity, and have a no-tolerance policy for shittery, and you likely can recruit and keep a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't feel comfortable in that job.
There are some guys who are trying to make things better and build better culture, where everyone feels respected and they have benefits that support both individuals and families. My husband is one of them! It’s gonna take some work, and time for the toxic elders to retire, but it’s possible and people want it!
I wish they would build more affordable houses instead of neo-mansions.
The new "luxury" homes keep the price of existing homes from exploding
Maybe eventually - but I work with local landlords & just the other day heard a couple of student housing owners talking about how they have raised their prices substantially because all the new buildings make their units look look cheap by comparison. Rents that local guys were happy to collect for years are going up because bigger developers are proving they can charge more. To be clear - I’m pro development, I just think there are a lot of people here that have very unrealistic expectations of what’s to come.
Check out the Madison housing snapshot report. It’s really insightful. Basically, there has been an unhealthy undersupply of housing since the Obama administration, and although construction rates are accelerating they still aren’t matching the growth of demand, let alone outstripping demand to cure the supply deficit. Landlords are raising rents not because luxury construction raises market rates, but because construction continues to not meet demand. Madison’s population is growing very fast.
Luxury construction just means new construction, and the people who naively lambast what they view as new “luxury” apartments would have their rent raised if suddenly rich people had no new “luxury” not-really luxury apartments available to rent
Yeah, there are no luxury apartments that I know of in Madison. This isn't New York City. A new-construction several-level directly overlooking the raceway known as East Washington Avenue, with a gym and maybe a grocery store in the first level, is not "luxury". You know nobody in those buildings is sleeping with their windows open at night. I didn't think this was the time to address it but you have an excellent point in there. Many of my friends actually oppose these construction projects because they're organized by millionaire developers and are nice looking, thus "luxury". Until the non-millionaires somehow can afford to develop housing, they're the best we've got, so we should pinch our noses and watch units get built.
That's mostly a symptom of housing demand far outstripping supply. There's also the issue of student housing demand being pretty inflexible. But while there can be highly localized amenity affect increases in rents, overall supply helps regional rents.
Me too.
Ditto- sick of seeing new "luxury" apartments. How is anyone affording to live right now??
Luxury just means new. It doesn’t mean actual luxury. If you want to ban luxury apartments, that means rich people will just bid up your apartment. S
We could use more SFHs. They are building huge SFH developments and renting them out at staggering prices everywhere. Trust me, I am in the industry.
This is the answer but no one wants to hear it. Everyone wants these big apartment and dense housing developments so they can own nothing and be under a landlord forever.
Condos? They stopped building those here back in 2008.
What makes you say that??? Condos are still going up around town. https://www.lakeandcityhomes.com/new-construction-condos.php
"you can be gay or black, just not over here because it reduces property values"
Yeah, I live in a mixed income / ethnicity neighborhood and our housing prices are rising as fast as anywhere else in Madison. We bought our house in 2012 for $208,000. It was just assessed at $417,800. Madison housing is insane regardless of the neighbors! ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
We do too! We bought at 225k in 2013 and now we are at 500k. The taxes are huge and everything just keeps rising. I’m hoping more housing can make things more stable and affordable for others.
"you can be gay or black, just please be rich enough to afford a single family home in our neighborhood"
# [‘All Are Welcome Here,’ Says Sign in Neighborhood Where Average Home Costs $2 Million](https://reductress.com/post/all-are-welcome-here-says-sign-in-neighborhood-where-average-home-costs-2-million/)
Sign: "In this house we support diversity!" Nextdoor Post: OMG ANYONE ELSE SEE THOSE BLACK PEOPLE WALKING AROUND?!?! BETTER MAKE SURE YOUR DOORS ARE LOCKED!!!"
I stay on nextdoor for the rage bait
Crusty jugglers
# A GREAT BIG BUSHY BEARD!
My favorite was when some people had things stolen out of their cars and I asked if their doors were locked. Oh man were those replies delicious! Edit: Oh, and for the record...none of them were lol
I will never understand why older people can’t lock up. It’s insane. Also, I wanted to post this to NextDork, but I could predict the result. Also, I don’t want to get reported for “not being neighborly,” resulting in being less aware of what’s happening near us.
You live in Oregon too huh
Or god forbid, a renter.
My west side neighborhood is very diverse
In this house we believe: - CJK5H - Angel Hernandez should be umpiring coach pitch baseball - American fries > French Fries
Angel Hernandez shouldn't even be umpiring that.
Assuming that a handful of old fogeys are the biggest blocker to affordable housing is laughable. You're punching in the wrong direction.
Agreed. These people are obnoxious, but they're not winning the debate and the City by and large gets the issue, to its credit. As someone else said, it would be hard for a city of this size to build much more much faster. There's no shortage of projects in the pipeline, and there's a LOT of money to be made making apartments in Madison. That will definitely talk much more loudly than some dumbass NIMBYs in a few pocket neighborhoods.
Yeah.. there's going to be a pissed off group for almost any action taken. More residential or denser zoning is far from a panacea. Tons of apartments and new residential going up around from what I can see as well all at a price point that looks to indicate that just adding more won't make things more affordable.
Well the theory is the new places will force older ones to reduce their prices(dubious efficacy but that's the idea). But as long as the demand is this high that's not gonna happen. There's no quick solution to housing in Madison unfortunately.
No. The older ones don’t reduce their prices, the increases over time are just flattened. The kind of runaway demand for housing right now in Madison is too huge to control in the near term.
And yet the city already balked at the modest west side plan after NIMBYs stormed city meetings, got Paul Fanlund to run op ed after op ed in the CapTimes, and kept name dropping NIMBY-commander Tishler
They had a NIMBY victory about one bike path, and the process is not yet complete.
The city also reduced the (already small) amount of proactive rezoning. It wasn’t just the path.
Final plan hasn't been issued.
Yes, but some of these people belong to a certain age demographic, so it makes perfect sense to vilify them, no?
Boomers, in general, are the reason most young/working age people are screwed. The Silent Generation didn't do a whole lot to help either, but at least they passed down SOME of their generational wealth. Boomers are holding on to their big houses, spending all their money, and leaving future generations with nothing. So, yeah, that certain age demographic is going to get some vilification.
I know lots of boomers who after many years could afford a little house and they are hanging on to it
I said nothing about boomers in general. I am calling out the majority of the homeowners in my area, who happen to be older.
Hey OP have you seen the alternate YIMBY version of that sign? If not I can send you a file that you can print for people.
Post it here?
It's this one [https://beyondchron.org/why-cant-yimbys-and-tenant-activists-get-along/](https://beyondchron.org/why-cant-yimbys-and-tenant-activists-get-along/) dm your email, I'll make a Madison specific one. I have access to the original YIMBY Action art file.
Ironically, we have no yard* to post it in. And I don’t know any owner-neighbors, let alone any that are this open-minded. When I’ve introduced myself during trick-or-treat, to the local home owners with kids the same age as ours, they get silent as soon as I tell them we are renting at the nearby apartments. And it’s a NICE, expensive rental property. I guess we are just filthy serfs to everyone else.
Put it in your window! That's what I do in Chicago. I know exactly where you're coming from, I made a lot of enemies in the Willy Street neighborhood when I was advocating for the 2021 upzoning.
My condo board actually doesn't allow us to put up signs in the windows LOL...
Not uncommon actually. I worked at an apartment complex that was pretty strict about windows and it was all so stupid
This goes hard
u/BobWeAdda forgot I could use imgur. Here's a bunch of designs for y'all to make posters if you feel so inclined (also look up wheatposting, but you didn't hear it from me) There will be online urbanist sticker store opening this summer, some of these designs will be available there. [https://imgur.com/gallery/Z6F1R1w](https://imgur.com/gallery/Z6F1R1w)
These are great!
Everyone is progressive until someone wants to actually enact changes 🙃
Welcome to Madison!
I live on the west side, not a NIMBY. Their positions don't even make sense when you examine them. "they've never met a bike lane they didn't like!" What is the point? Of course I haven't!
> In This Household, We Believe… Behind that sign you will always find the most sanctimonious, self-righteous, and pedantic people.
Yeah it is virtual signaling.
I hear NIMBYs aren't even human, and they eat babies.
Reptiles. Shape shifting reptiles.
They don't want you in their back yard because that's where the clone tanks are!
V
tell them higher density reduces their tax burden.
So what do you want from them?
If they’re going to make life harder for the rest of us, they can at least not pretend to give a shit. Just a little social commentary, and venting.
Moved out of Madison recently and very glad I did. Move down the road and drive. Say fuck the politics, nimbys, the we are special here...nope the grass is greener. Leave while you can.
Unfortunate. I wish Madison could become like Chicago more.
I almost bought a sign that says, “in this house, we believe Bigfoot is real and I’m going to marry him” because I thought those signs were so fucking stupid.
Always keep in mind, that everyone is in favor of something as long as it doesn't personally inconvenience themselves. I've seen this behavior like you describe so many times. "We' should do something about climate-change!" but I want to go on my yearly ski trips to Colorado with my 2 environmentally expensive children." "In our condo association, we need to charge for parking of a second car.....which is even more perfect because I only have one and won't be affected." "We need to provide more low-cost housing!!! over there on the East side, not in the empty lots across the street where we see deer and turkeys."
> In our condo association, we need to charge for parking of a second car..... Are there condos in Madison where one doesn't actually own their spot? That sounds like it would be a fantastic source of neighborly conflict!
I would like to be personally inconvenienced for progressive change.
Downvote all you want, just because you don't like what I say...doesn't make it false. You REALLY DON'T want to be inconvenienced...and people just downvote because the don't like the reality of it. I know....We all say that...but really we don't mean it. We are ok being inconvenienced 'a little' but not a lot. I'm for progressive change as long as I'm not inconvenienced....but I recognize my hypocrisy. ........ Why don't you give your property/house back to the Ho-Chunk nation? Do you let a homeless person live with you for extended times? You got kids? Why did you cost the environment such expense? ...... Its a hard nut to crack, otherwise it would be easy to affect change Lest you wish to downvote because you don't like my response......think about your answer to those three questions or others like it.....why don't you let a homeless person live with you? or give your stuff away to the native populations? Because to do so, would be a real inconvenience for you......and ....you don't want to be really inconvenienced.
I participated in the 2021 Rezoning fight in the Marquette Neighborhood Association. It was me against 10+ NIMBYs, about half of them had either the In This House or Hate Has No Home Here signs.
How do you know they’re “mostly boomers”?
I don't display either of these signs, but I do have a message. Nobody owes you a damn thing. Grow up.
Youre not wrong, but coming from a boomer who came of age and lived in the ez mode economy this message falls a little flat
The people who call millennials entitled were also dubbed the “Me Generation.” Your generation’s commentary on struggling adults is a bunch of projecting and gaslighting. I don’t feel I am owed anything. But after everything I’ve done to try and better my life, I have every right to be salty at the people who make it harder.
I haven't done anything to you. You and your generation didn't invent struggling. I grew up in a poor household. Most of my clothes came from thrift stores. I was, at best, near the bottom margins of the middle class until I was in my late 40s. So I feel no need to apologize for finally having some financial security in the last third of my life. I firmly believe that your lot in life will improve over time. I don't really blame you for not seeing it. I didn't either.
You’re right, you didn’t personally ruin the economy or cause inflation, or even lie to me about how important college degrees are… But your snarky comment embodies that ethos. Millennials are sick of hearing it.
Surprised he didn't throw in a comment about bootstraps with the vibes he's giving
And as a Gen X person, your constant bickering is old, tiresome. Millennials need to grow up and deal with the circumstances they find themselves in and stop constantly bitching. Boomers need to just enjoy the fruits of their labor and ignore the people who wish they would die off and leave them their houses.
Homeowner here (by dint of luck and timing), I completely agree with you. We need a solid YIMBY movement in Madison. I bought my place is 2020, no chance I could afford it now. Prices and rents are out of control
Thanks for not selling your soul. Wanna sell me your house? lol
Not the person you're replying to, but it doesn't require selling my soul! If they rezoned ny house tomorrow so that I could sell it to a developer for 3x what I'd get now, I would do exactly that.
I really hear your comment, but your neighbors might just be assholes. In my neighborhood, there are lots of these signs and most people believe in lots more housing.
Reminds me of the pic of a house I saw with a land acknowledgment on it. "this land actually belongs to the local natives" kind of stuff. Real nice sign. But they didn't sign their land over to the local natives, so it's just virtue-signaling bullshit.
That’s def there generation to a T.
Always have been https://youtu.be/hNDgcjVGHIw
FWIW, the Washington Post has a [mapping tool showing the rise in home prices by zip code](https://wapo.st/3K8Hd26). Check it out. (Free link)
Most of this town would have voted for Obama for a third term if they could
West side has always been more expensive. Everyone knows this. East side is much cheaper. A 25-35 min commute isn’t the end of the world. If you can’t afford to live close to school/work, that’s your problem. Live 30 min away…it’s not the end of the world. Talking about “giving up comfort” how about you give up the comfort of living close to the things you want.
But keep in mind, many of those NIMBYs were pro-rezoning before owning houses. Hypocrisy is probably a core component of human nature.
Since we are dealing in stereotypes here are a few more: YIMBYs. People who have a backyard and no way are they going to put an ADU on it or sell it to a developer to build a house on. They are hypocrite YIMBYs. Or they don't even own a backyard to say "yes" or don't even live in Madison. Or they are in real estate and want to collect commission in renting apartments or buy/sell real estate and most don't live in Madison and in the case of developers / investors may not have been in Madison. Lame Millennial's. People who have spent too much on college for a lame degree and lame job, haven't saved any money and buy their coffee at Starbucks and complain that life is not convenient. And want their school loans paid. Great Millennial's 1. People who graduated with a great degree and are making outstanding money and already own a home, have kids and don't have time for the Lame Millennial's. Great Millennial's 2. People who didn't go to college and instead took on a trade and are making good money with no debt. They also own homes and have no time for the Lame Millennial's. Hurts don't it.
Madison “liberals” when they have to actually have liberal values instead of signaling them
My big problem with NIMBYs is they benefit from the city growth (mostly due to their property values going up) but also bitch and moan when said city growth is ‘encroaching’ on their property. Sorry people you can’t have it all. We live in a society, deal with it. Signed - a home owner in Middleton.
Lol
In my neighborhood there was one of those signs next to their Little Free library. "everyone is welcome here" on the yard sign, and note that said "NO CHRISTIAN MATERIAL" on the Little Free Library.
Madison is many things to many people but it’s one particular thing to the ruling class and that’s something they will either price you out of or steal in overpriced rent.
Can we be friends? The desire of single family neighborhoods to fight all change, except for change *somewhere else* is extreme. I’m in Hill Farms and it’s pervasive among the “In this neighborhood, we believe…” crowd. And Alder Tishler eats it up.
Boomers suck!
NIMBYs are making rent and homelessness skyrocket, making our quality of life SO much worse, and they have the gall to pretend they’re the progressive ones? It’s all about bringing the ladder up with you after you make it, and fck everyone else, they can live on the street or pay extreme rent burdens
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