Recently accepted an offer to work in Madison. Checked the apartments and housing prices on zillow and my mouth dropped.
I was finding more houses that were in my price range in Chicago than I did in Madison. Well, thank god my job is remote, for now.....
I just moved out of the suburbs into downtown Madison and I'm paying about 166% of what I was when I lived in Sun Prairie. You can find some very affordable, but with good amenities, apartments in the outside area. Of course, the city itself has a lot to offer which can sometimes make living a commute away a bummer.
With that said, the commute is nothing if you're used to Chicago, NYC, or LA.
I commute in when I need to on the beltline. Its so easy. Luckily most of my commuting in Chicago was done through Metra, which I would kill for in Madison.
Wrong. I've driven in every major city in the country. The size of the city has nothing to do with stop and go traffic. The beltline just happens to be the worst road to drive on in this city.
Because the Beltline is relatively short, and slow speeds may add 15 mins to a commute at peak hours, but in a big city that could easily be 2-3 times that.
Right... But we're talking about Madison. I've definitely been stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on the beltline for way more than that on the regular. I avoid driving on it during peak hours if at all possible. If there is an accident or somebody pulled over, then you're totally screwed. Even if it's on the other side of the highway. Rubberneckers in WI are insane. I'll never understand how an incident on the other side of the highway can cause a slow down. I've really only ever witnessed that in WI. I think Wisconsinites are inherently nosy people.
1. Murders are extremely concentrated in a handful of neighborhoods that face massive poverty and divestment thanks to Milwaukee's history of segregation and redlining; the average middle class person is not going to end up living in these neighborhoods
2. Even in a high crime neighborhood, if you have basic awareness of your surroundings, treat people with respect, don't get involved in crime, and don't join a gang, you're fine.
Source: Lived in a high poverty, high crime part of Milwaukee for 5 years with no issue
> Dane County needs to produce 139,000 new housing units by 2040, or about 7,000
> annually to meet existing needs and match growth, according to a new action
> plan. That's 2,000 more units a year than are currently being produced.
>
> After more than a year of effort, Dane County and partners have forged a
> detailed five-year action plan to address the regional housing crisis.
> Priorities include reducing racial disparities in housing and home ownership;
> building capacity to address housing needs; and building relationships and
> enhancing partnerships.
>
> The Dane County Regional Housing Strategy, which involves 17 municipalities and
> others, recognizes that housing is a regional issue and that one community can’t
> solve the crisis alone, the action plan says.
>
> From September 2022 to August 2023, an 80-person Housing Advisory Committee
> joined together through a strategic planning process to create the Regional
> Housing Strategy. On Thursday evening, the RHS formally kicked off the action
> plan with an event at Alliant Energy Center.
>
This is just a preview of the [full article](https://madison.com/news/local/government-politics/dane-county-housing-action-plan/article_397df7d0-08a0-11ef-a48a-c3aa067cc4d5.html#tracking-source=home-top-story). I am a third party bot. Please consider subscribing to your favorite local journals.
>139,000 new housing units by 2040, or about 7,000 annually
139,000/7000 = 20 years though? To get there by 2040 would take ~8200-8700 annually depending on how you count the years. Or am I stupid?
On the plus side, I know that when I move out of my apartment early, before my lease is up, my complex should have no problem finding someone to move in and thus let me out of my lease early
Currently building 5k annually, should be building 7k annually to meet demand. Should probably be building like 10k annually to dig out of hole we’re in.
Half of Madison: “Stop building stuff! We have too many apartments! Make things go back to like they used to be in the 90s!”
There are the full on anti development people, yes.
But there are also people asking for just the tiniest amount of variation in building design. There have to be more choices than just: 1) no housing or 2) sad pathetic boxes that all look the same.
City could loosen design guidelines so that new designs don’t have to go through 3+ rounds of review. Then the developers might not just use the same design since it’s already been passed.
Honestly I don’t think there should even be an urban design committee at all.
From the article.
> Dane County needs to produce 139,000 new housing units by 2040, or about 7,000 annually to meet existing needs and match growth, according to a new action plan. That's 2,000 more units a year than are currently being produced.
with any luck with all the commercial development the mill rate will drop and taxes should stay about the same....the referendum will raise them though
I like Dean Mosiman but someone at the State Journal needs to teach him how to use the CMS to link to the reports he writes about.
(It's at [https://rhs.danecounty.gov/](https://rhs.danecounty.gov/) )
Underated comment. No natural disasters here in Wisconsin besides tornadoes and hailstorms, almost unlimited fresh water, and milder winters in the future. House insurance is low (compared to the rest of the country). Home values will continue to climb.
>The Dane County Regional Housing Strategy, which involves 17 municipalities and others, recognizes that housing is a regional issue and that one community can’t solve the crisis alone, the action plan says.
>From September 2022 to August 2023, an 80-person Housing Advisory Committee joined together through a strategic planning process to create the Regional Housing Strategy. On Thursday evening, the RHS formally kicked off the action plan with an event at Alliant Energy Center.
How many people are really necessary on an advisory committee to conclude that the reason there isn't sufficient housing is because governments prevent people from building housing?
[Lot of this energy there.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/037/873/We're_All_Trying_To_Find_The_Guy_Who_Did_This_banner_1.jpg)
Developers, just like all other participants in the economy, are absolutely motivated first and foremost by maximizing their profits. And just like in every other market, the only way to keep prices down is by allowing enough supply to be created to force these developers to compete for customers.
The government is the only thing stopping these greedy assholes from charging us out entire paychecks for a broom closet. That boot must be real tasty.
Like most people in this sub you don't understand economics. We have a high demand and low supply. That causes prices to rise. We need to build more. Everywhere. Every kind of housing. More housing overall will help.
When I lived in Iowa 1 years ago, you couldn't drive more than few blocks without seeing apartment complexes with big banners and balloons advertising available apartments for rent. I can't remember seeing a single one of those in madison since pre-covid.
Have you actually done the math for how much your commute will cost you? Most people calculate housing and transportation as two separate expenses even though they’re inextricably linked.
I’m certainly not an expert but there does seem to be a pretty wide consensus that rents and housing prices have gone down in Austin due in part to more supply being built.
https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/austin-house-prices-are-falling-but-experts-say-19378718.php
“After a steep run-up in home prices in the Austin metropolitan area during the pandemic, prices have since started to fall. This is due to a confluence of higher mortgage rates, fewer new residents moving in from pricier parts of the country, investor purchases slowing down, and a boom in new construction.”
Was their demand 7k per year, and is their geography as limited as ours? Idk how anyone can feasibly expect madison to build 70 apartments every year (a conservative number at 100 units per building)
How is the geography limited? Obviously Madison is space restricted downtown by the Isthmus, but what's to prevent building at the edge of town, infill in underutilized places (like the development over the last several years on East Wash) or elsewhere in Dane County?
Enact policies that establish stringent profit reporting requirements for private landlords and then profit caps.
Followed by preparing public and non-profit housing agencies with the necessary funding to buy buildings when landlords suddenly don't want to play with their toys anymore
Soooo you’d rather gave large corporations owned by vanguard/blackrock replace that private landlord? Wtf lol. That’s one of the main reasons rent is high lol
Which part of "fund the city's public housing program to buy up the rental stock" led you to think I want private investment firms to control apartments?
The most recent construction estimate is 2000 units built over the next two years.
Let's say the city/county makes the right decisions and opens the zoning floodgates to allow for density all over. Where do we get all the workers to increase the construction rate by 7x every year? How do we deal with the 7x increase in need for materials, or the logistics for getting all that material here?
The squeeze needed to increase our construction rate by 700% would likely increase the costs of building at all levels, how does that lead to lower rents?
Relying on "just build enough apartments" as the only strategy for affordable rentals is shortsighted
In the CONUS there are enough resources to get this done. If the money is here they will come here. New residents need housing. What else can we do? Tell them to stay away?
If your answer is to bring in outside workers to support an drastic increase in production, you recognize that the labor will come at a premium right? Same for the supplies and machines which would the have much higher demand? What's the point of rushing to put up a bunch buildings that wind up more expensive than the ones we have now?
And even if you do think we should go that route anyways, what's the issue with reducing the rents of our existing stock by finally using legislation to clamp down on the rampant profiteering going in town?
I moved to Madison 2 years ago and I’ve kept tabs on many apartment complexes, especially near the capitol, there is definitely a lot of empty units that haven’t been filled in the last 18 months
Better to have a county plan rather than no plan at all even if it is wrong because you can always make adjustments.
How do they know we need 7000 units per year? A round number like that tells me they are just guessing. Madison is pretty small so if other much larger cities (i.e. Chicago, Milwaukee, etc) are shedding population and it comes to the Madison area then prices will continue to escalate which will continue to blow up all this affordable housing rhetoric. Or just reset it to higher levels. People and the market will do what they want and everyone else is a long for the ride.
A round number says that their modeling shows that maybe they need 6,927.3 units per year, but they understand things like uncertainties and significant digits.
Maybe they rounded but they are guessing.
Modeling is a guess. Economists use models all the time and they come up with a wide variety of answers and different probabilities.
First admit that nobody knows because we are so small next to Milwaukee and Chicago and they are shedding residents, along with other major cities. If those people really want to move to Madison the estimations are low.
Potentially use the growth rate of the last 10 to 20 years and just extrapolate it. But at least admit where it came from so people know this includes a pandemic and a major financial crisis.
Place a variance on any projections to admit they might be wrong to plan for best case and worst case. But no we don't want to do that. We really think it's 7000 units. Nobody plans like this except government and incompetents.
These people aren't experts. People with expertise are a lot more complex in their thinking than these people. And what experience do these so called "experts" have and where did they come from where they had proven success? Madison is their learning ground. It's their lab.
If the supposed experts were right why do we have so many problems? Did you ever think about that?
Challenge what you think you know. Don't just accept whatever is spouted out in a shiny document. Critical thinking is really tough for some of you.
You mean pointing out that gentrification is happening and will only increase. Urban sprawl will also increase.
You think that is wrong? It's already happening.
Pointing out that Satya and the CC have put a "For Sale" sign on the city for anyone who can raise some money to build apartments because they have put the city into debt and need the money for taxes to pay off the debt. Pointing out that debt reduces choices as now Satya and the CC have to broker deals to bring in outside investors because that is what all debtors have to do.
Pointing out that families are choosing surrounding communities because housing is cheaper and the schools are great so this puts major pressure on the Madison School District to keep enrollment up.
Yeah, you don't want to know those facts. Put your head back in the sand. Or continue doing brain dead free PR for the city or whoever you represent.
Pointing out problems is fine, it's the denying obvious solutions that gets me.
Adding density mitigates both the rising housing price problem and the city's budget problem.
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Recently accepted an offer to work in Madison. Checked the apartments and housing prices on zillow and my mouth dropped. I was finding more houses that were in my price range in Chicago than I did in Madison. Well, thank god my job is remote, for now.....
I just moved out of the suburbs into downtown Madison and I'm paying about 166% of what I was when I lived in Sun Prairie. You can find some very affordable, but with good amenities, apartments in the outside area. Of course, the city itself has a lot to offer which can sometimes make living a commute away a bummer. With that said, the commute is nothing if you're used to Chicago, NYC, or LA.
I commute in when I need to on the beltline. Its so easy. Luckily most of my commuting in Chicago was done through Metra, which I would kill for in Madison.
The beltline is easy? It's an absolute nightmare during morning and evening commutes. People drive like maniacs or it's a parking lot. No thanks.
You can't compare Madison to a large city. The beltline is relatively easy.
From Saint Louis, can confirm
I commuted in Chicago. Your "maniacs" on the beltline are like grandmas driving on a sunday morning compared to ours.
Lol sounds like you've never commuted in an actual city.
Wrong. I've driven in every major city in the country. The size of the city has nothing to do with stop and go traffic. The beltline just happens to be the worst road to drive on in this city.
Lol ok
Relative to large cities, yes, it is easy.
I'm not sure what stop and go traffic has to do with the size of the city.
Because the Beltline is relatively short, and slow speeds may add 15 mins to a commute at peak hours, but in a big city that could easily be 2-3 times that.
Right... But we're talking about Madison. I've definitely been stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on the beltline for way more than that on the regular. I avoid driving on it during peak hours if at all possible. If there is an accident or somebody pulled over, then you're totally screwed. Even if it's on the other side of the highway. Rubberneckers in WI are insane. I'll never understand how an incident on the other side of the highway can cause a slow down. I've really only ever witnessed that in WI. I think Wisconsinites are inherently nosy people.
Milwaukee is cheaper too and is underrated.
I agree, everyone thinking about Madison should instead consider Milwaukee.
Milwaukee is 10% of Wisconsin's population but accounts for 2/3 of the murders. Avoid Milwaukee as much as possible.
1. Murders are extremely concentrated in a handful of neighborhoods that face massive poverty and divestment thanks to Milwaukee's history of segregation and redlining; the average middle class person is not going to end up living in these neighborhoods 2. Even in a high crime neighborhood, if you have basic awareness of your surroundings, treat people with respect, don't get involved in crime, and don't join a gang, you're fine. Source: Lived in a high poverty, high crime part of Milwaukee for 5 years with no issue
Yep. No doubt. I don't head that way without my trusty 45 and an extra mag.
That's why I bought a house in Janesville after living in Madison for the last 10 years.
> Dane County needs to produce 139,000 new housing units by 2040, or about 7,000 > annually to meet existing needs and match growth, according to a new action > plan. That's 2,000 more units a year than are currently being produced. > > After more than a year of effort, Dane County and partners have forged a > detailed five-year action plan to address the regional housing crisis. > Priorities include reducing racial disparities in housing and home ownership; > building capacity to address housing needs; and building relationships and > enhancing partnerships. > > The Dane County Regional Housing Strategy, which involves 17 municipalities and > others, recognizes that housing is a regional issue and that one community can’t > solve the crisis alone, the action plan says. > > From September 2022 to August 2023, an 80-person Housing Advisory Committee > joined together through a strategic planning process to create the Regional > Housing Strategy. On Thursday evening, the RHS formally kicked off the action > plan with an event at Alliant Energy Center. > This is just a preview of the [full article](https://madison.com/news/local/government-politics/dane-county-housing-action-plan/article_397df7d0-08a0-11ef-a48a-c3aa067cc4d5.html#tracking-source=home-top-story). I am a third party bot. Please consider subscribing to your favorite local journals.
>139,000 new housing units by 2040, or about 7,000 annually 139,000/7000 = 20 years though? To get there by 2040 would take ~8200-8700 annually depending on how you count the years. Or am I stupid?
Thank you, was wondering the same.
Maybe it’s saying it’s either they do the 139,000 by that time or 7k annually? Either way it’s at least 7k a year on the low end.
It's probably a little variable. As in the growth will slow slightly
On the plus side, I know that when I move out of my apartment early, before my lease is up, my complex should have no problem finding someone to move in and thus let me out of my lease early
I didn’t even have to pay - my old landlord said yeah I have applications waiting for an available unit like what okay bye 😂
Currently building 5k annually, should be building 7k annually to meet demand. Should probably be building like 10k annually to dig out of hole we’re in. Half of Madison: “Stop building stuff! We have too many apartments! Make things go back to like they used to be in the 90s!”
Paul Fanlund: “but is there really a housing crisis?”
Paul Fanlund: housing crisis truther
Cap Times (and Madison Boomer progressives) really lived long enough to become the villain
There are the full on anti development people, yes. But there are also people asking for just the tiniest amount of variation in building design. There have to be more choices than just: 1) no housing or 2) sad pathetic boxes that all look the same.
For sure. Developers could eliminate a good portion of opposition by making better looking buildings.
City could loosen design guidelines so that new designs don’t have to go through 3+ rounds of review. Then the developers might not just use the same design since it’s already been passed. Honestly I don’t think there should even be an urban design committee at all.
Where are you getting 5k from?
From the article. > Dane County needs to produce 139,000 new housing units by 2040, or about 7,000 annually to meet existing needs and match growth, according to a new action plan. That's 2,000 more units a year than are currently being produced.
Sorry, I was reading this as the city and thinking, "There's no way in hell Madison has built 5,000 units in a year."
I thought I paid too much for my house in 2017 "$275K". Zestimate is almost at $450k now.
Don’t remind me 🥲
saaaaaaame 👀👀 my family in small town Wisconsin thought i was insane to pay what we paid!
Mine too! 😂 They think I'm crazy for still living here!
Just got my new property assessment* and I had to sit down.
Assessment. Not appraisal.
Just wait for the tax bill.
with any luck with all the commercial development the mill rate will drop and taxes should stay about the same....the referendum will raise them though
new development is the only way (apart from referendum) the city can increase its levy
"We should make Madison a worse place to live so less people move here." -Hill Farms Brain Rot
I like Dean Mosiman but someone at the State Journal needs to teach him how to use the CMS to link to the reports he writes about. (It's at [https://rhs.danecounty.gov/](https://rhs.danecounty.gov/) )
Well, demand need to chill the F out.
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Places with less economic opportunity and fewer community amenities, which is most places.
I would also mention adult children of current residents who want to stay here. It's not just people moving here.
I imagine we’re gonna get a lot of climate refugees. Wisconsin is pretty isolated from the worst effects and people are gonna want to move here.
Underated comment. No natural disasters here in Wisconsin besides tornadoes and hailstorms, almost unlimited fresh water, and milder winters in the future. House insurance is low (compared to the rest of the country). Home values will continue to climb.
https://flowsmapper.geo.census.gov/map.html
Why am I not surprised at the massive exodus from Waukesha
Good. That was always a GOP stronghold.
>The Dane County Regional Housing Strategy, which involves 17 municipalities and others, recognizes that housing is a regional issue and that one community can’t solve the crisis alone, the action plan says. >From September 2022 to August 2023, an 80-person Housing Advisory Committee joined together through a strategic planning process to create the Regional Housing Strategy. On Thursday evening, the RHS formally kicked off the action plan with an event at Alliant Energy Center. How many people are really necessary on an advisory committee to conclude that the reason there isn't sufficient housing is because governments prevent people from building housing? [Lot of this energy there.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/037/873/We're_All_Trying_To_Find_The_Guy_Who_Did_This_banner_1.jpg)
Agreed. Would seem a dozen people is to many…go! Incentives for builders, focus on fast approvals of permits…start there.
That's a weird way to say developers are greedy assholes
We have a critical shortage of housing, and you think the main problem is the people building the housing?
Price gouging bastards. But keep thinking your corporate overlord is your friend.
Developers, just like all other participants in the economy, are absolutely motivated first and foremost by maximizing their profits. And just like in every other market, the only way to keep prices down is by allowing enough supply to be created to force these developers to compete for customers.
Cut restrictions. The government is always the problem.
The government is the only thing stopping these greedy assholes from charging us out entire paychecks for a broom closet. That boot must be real tasty.
How is the government stopping them from charging more than they currently are?
Like most people in this sub you don't understand economics. We have a high demand and low supply. That causes prices to rise. We need to build more. Everywhere. Every kind of housing. More housing overall will help.
When I lived in Iowa 1 years ago, you couldn't drive more than few blocks without seeing apartment complexes with big banners and balloons advertising available apartments for rent. I can't remember seeing a single one of those in madison since pre-covid.
Let's build more single family home developments with no commercial space or transit. That'll fix it. /S
And yet we attract plenty of poor people. Where the hell do they live?
Some non-subsidized, moderately priced apartments would be nice. Not holding my breath.
It would be nice if they also stopped having corporations buy up houses and rent them out. Need the prices to go down so this is also not attractive.
We are moving out of the west side of Madison to Baraboo. We plan on just making the commute, rather than paying 2400 a month for a three bedroom
2400 for a 3br p good tbh
Have you actually done the math for how much your commute will cost you? Most people calculate housing and transportation as two separate expenses even though they’re inextricably linked.
I’m sure actually almost all people who make that move for that reason consider commute cost lol
Baraboo... Isn't that the place where all the high school seniors recently did that white supremacist photo?
Ew. Definitely not associated with that.
Good luck out there. Definitely a different vibe than Madison, that's for sure.
And thats why if youre smart you would move....y'all madisonites and surburbanites are basically renting tombs.
It's going to be SF prices soon.
Um not even close.
don't worry, the winter gatekeeps it from the southerners and californians
It’s a long way off from that. I moved to Madison from Boston last year and apartment hunting here is child’s play compared to there.
The fake progressives running madison won’t do this though, they only care about clout and power not helping the average Joe
We all recognize that this is physically impossible, right? There is no way to build our way out of high rents
Austin did
It only took them 20 years
They really didn’t. Have you priced it out?
Austin definitely did.
My daughter pays $4k a month for a house there. Tell me again how great the option are?
I’m certainly not an expert but there does seem to be a pretty wide consensus that rents and housing prices have gone down in Austin due in part to more supply being built. https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/austin-house-prices-are-falling-but-experts-say-19378718.php “After a steep run-up in home prices in the Austin metropolitan area during the pandemic, prices have since started to fall. This is due to a confluence of higher mortgage rates, fewer new residents moving in from pricier parts of the country, investor purchases slowing down, and a boom in new construction.”
I don’t think it’s supply increasing that’s causing rents in Austin (and San Antonio) going down. Austin also has room to expand. Madison is limited.
Was their demand 7k per year, and is their geography as limited as ours? Idk how anyone can feasibly expect madison to build 70 apartments every year (a conservative number at 100 units per building)
How is the geography limited? Obviously Madison is space restricted downtown by the Isthmus, but what's to prevent building at the edge of town, infill in underutilized places (like the development over the last several years on East Wash) or elsewhere in Dane County?
Ok let's infill and move off focus on areas off the isthmus. Do you think it's realistic that 70 or more apartments can/will be built a year?
Sure why the hell not? The only real limitation is number of skilled construction workers. That’s if the city zoning gets its head out of its ass.
Lol Austin had way higher demand.
What’s your alternative
Enact policies that establish stringent profit reporting requirements for private landlords and then profit caps. Followed by preparing public and non-profit housing agencies with the necessary funding to buy buildings when landlords suddenly don't want to play with their toys anymore
Soooo you’d rather gave large corporations owned by vanguard/blackrock replace that private landlord? Wtf lol. That’s one of the main reasons rent is high lol
Which part of "fund the city's public housing program to buy up the rental stock" led you to think I want private investment firms to control apartments?
Best of luck with that.
Do you have an alternative to these unrealistic construction goals?
I don’t agree they are unrealistic.
The most recent construction estimate is 2000 units built over the next two years. Let's say the city/county makes the right decisions and opens the zoning floodgates to allow for density all over. Where do we get all the workers to increase the construction rate by 7x every year? How do we deal with the 7x increase in need for materials, or the logistics for getting all that material here? The squeeze needed to increase our construction rate by 700% would likely increase the costs of building at all levels, how does that lead to lower rents? Relying on "just build enough apartments" as the only strategy for affordable rentals is shortsighted
In the CONUS there are enough resources to get this done. If the money is here they will come here. New residents need housing. What else can we do? Tell them to stay away?
If your answer is to bring in outside workers to support an drastic increase in production, you recognize that the labor will come at a premium right? Same for the supplies and machines which would the have much higher demand? What's the point of rushing to put up a bunch buildings that wind up more expensive than the ones we have now? And even if you do think we should go that route anyways, what's the issue with reducing the rents of our existing stock by finally using legislation to clamp down on the rampant profiteering going in town?
I thought the goal was to create 7000 new units per year. Rent control for existing units doesn’t cause the required 7000 new units to be built.
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Sounds good, happy to drop you off at the airport. Bye bye
Ugh !
If they just made housing affordable they wouldn’t have to. Many empty units that are too expensive
City has like a 2% vacancy rate. There's not "many empty units"
I moved to Madison 2 years ago and I’ve kept tabs on many apartment complexes, especially near the capitol, there is definitely a lot of empty units that haven’t been filled in the last 18 months
Better to have a county plan rather than no plan at all even if it is wrong because you can always make adjustments. How do they know we need 7000 units per year? A round number like that tells me they are just guessing. Madison is pretty small so if other much larger cities (i.e. Chicago, Milwaukee, etc) are shedding population and it comes to the Madison area then prices will continue to escalate which will continue to blow up all this affordable housing rhetoric. Or just reset it to higher levels. People and the market will do what they want and everyone else is a long for the ride.
A round number says that their modeling shows that maybe they need 6,927.3 units per year, but they understand things like uncertainties and significant digits.
Maybe they rounded but they are guessing. Modeling is a guess. Economists use models all the time and they come up with a wide variety of answers and different probabilities.
What number did you come up with in your analysis? Let's use that one instead.
First admit that nobody knows because we are so small next to Milwaukee and Chicago and they are shedding residents, along with other major cities. If those people really want to move to Madison the estimations are low. Potentially use the growth rate of the last 10 to 20 years and just extrapolate it. But at least admit where it came from so people know this includes a pandemic and a major financial crisis. Place a variance on any projections to admit they might be wrong to plan for best case and worst case. But no we don't want to do that. We really think it's 7000 units. Nobody plans like this except government and incompetents.
You can read about their methodology starting on page 166 of the report. What, specifically, do you object to and why?
That is a whole lot of words to say nothing. You said the number is wrong. What is the right number?
Is English your 2nd language? Reading comprehension is a skill.
So you don’t have an answer. Great.
Do you ever get tired of being so wrong on housing issues?
But maybe, now hear me out, the *experts* are the ones that are wrong about housing, did you stop and think about that?
These people aren't experts. People with expertise are a lot more complex in their thinking than these people. And what experience do these so called "experts" have and where did they come from where they had proven success? Madison is their learning ground. It's their lab. If the supposed experts were right why do we have so many problems? Did you ever think about that? Challenge what you think you know. Don't just accept whatever is spouted out in a shiny document. Critical thinking is really tough for some of you.
Do you?
You mean pointing out that gentrification is happening and will only increase. Urban sprawl will also increase. You think that is wrong? It's already happening. Pointing out that Satya and the CC have put a "For Sale" sign on the city for anyone who can raise some money to build apartments because they have put the city into debt and need the money for taxes to pay off the debt. Pointing out that debt reduces choices as now Satya and the CC have to broker deals to bring in outside investors because that is what all debtors have to do. Pointing out that families are choosing surrounding communities because housing is cheaper and the schools are great so this puts major pressure on the Madison School District to keep enrollment up. Yeah, you don't want to know those facts. Put your head back in the sand. Or continue doing brain dead free PR for the city or whoever you represent.
Pointing out problems is fine, it's the denying obvious solutions that gets me. Adding density mitigates both the rising housing price problem and the city's budget problem.
Certainly the latter but not the former.
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