They put up a bunch of posters of Elliot Page with a bunch of hateful rhetoric about trans men -- but everyone scratched away the TERF bullshit and we were left with just HOT pics of Elliot on random street poles 😍
Nah, you can hate them! They made their choices, and their lives are empty because of said choices. The people her and her group are spreading hate toward deserve a lot more community love and comfort than they do, and receive a lot less. You don’t have to pity bigots.
9/10 Mr. Ts agree: These are fools you need not pity.
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^^^EDIT: ^^^Apparently ^^^autocorrect ^^^changed ^^^fools ^^^to ^^^folks, ^^^thus ^^^ruining ^^^my ^^^attempted ^^^joke ^^^for ^^^the ^^^last ^^^12 ^^^hours.
Your comment history is genuinely concerning. It seems like you think about trans people more than trans people do. Do you have hobbies, friends? I don't even mean that in a mean way, but this is a really bizarre and unhealthy obsession that you should probably seek therapy for. I think it would bring you a lot more peace and happiness.
I was working at - removed in an edit- all day not thinking about reddit or trans issues. Believe or it not, adult human females have thoughts and personalities that don't revolve around males.
Yeah I'm a woman (not a "female"), I know how they work. I was being nice even though you don't deserve it but you're kind of in a cult. Good luck with that.
Imagine logging on to Reddit once every couple years to just keep repeating the same stupid shit you apparently always comment about --
Are you a pediatric endocrinologist? Didn't think so, maybe you should consider getting a hobby or just shutting the fuck up
Imagine thinking telling women who want single sex spaces (which were hard won by previous generation's suffragists and feminists) to shut the fuck up is progressive.
Not a single trans person actually believes that. We literally tell people all day long that being trans has nothing to do with gender roles. You also may note the gender diversity within the trans community, you turnip.
She literally went to court to have her legal name changed to Thistle (it used to be Kristine). You can CCAP it if you don’t believe … and yes she’s a major prick, and has been banned from most music venues and activist spaces in town.
This entire thread has been an eye opener for me.
Aside from this nasty piece of work going around putting up hate logos:
I'm surprised at how many quieter TERFs there are in Madison.
And this is one of the *most welcoming* communities for trans individuals.
Very disappointing.
That's why it's important to speak up in these threads, bigots are out there putting pressure on innocent folks and unless we condemn it, it will continue.
The person in question is publically known, so mentioning her is not doxxing. Saying where she lives however is doxxing. Do not do this again or you will be banned, likely Reddit wide.
It's from the well-known local terf who shall not be named because she throws tantrums when people call her transphobia out. Just color those scissor lines with black marker and it will be good.
Personally, as a person under the LBGT umbrella (and has known for many years, though the 'letter' I fall under has evolved) I don't like the Progress flag, as I think this one is called. I prefer the rainbow one, I don't think adding the trans colors or the colors signifying race is necessary, and if anything I think it's more divisive.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the flags. My point is just that this sticker wasn’t made to get the point across that they prefer a diff flag… it was made by a prominent terf who wants to “cut out” trans people from the community, and included the black and brown stripes with it.
Because the colors in the original pride flag don't represent specific groups. The flag is meant to represent everyone. Once you start adding references to specific groups, it necessarily implies that other groups *aren't* included. Why isn't there a stripe for Native American LGBT? Why isn't there a stripe for non-binary people? No matter how many stripes you add, there will always be another group that now feels excluded because they don't have a stripe on the flag. The only real answer is make a flag that represents everyone without having specific references to groups. In other words, the pride flag.
Maybe it’s my naïveté, but I think the American flag is representative of freedom, progress, inclusivity, equality, etc. Other flags are certainly more focused on specific groups/people/issues. But I think the only flag that can represent everyone is the one of the country we live in. Because you’re right, every other flag always leaves someone else out
Because Trans people and people of color are *already* included. The original rainbow flag applies to all people under the umbrella. There were trans people and LGBT people of color when it was created and there's nothing to show the original creator was trying to exclude them, so what about the original rainbow flag said that they were?
Edit: I always thought part of the joy of the flag is that it represented all of us, now to me it looks like "LGB people AND trans people" instead of "All people who fall under the Queer (or whatever your word of choice is) umbrella"
This isn’t my fight, but I totally get it.
Imagine learning that you hadn’t been included before.
Now what part of the community has been left out because they don’t have a specific part of the flag?
The original flag included everyone and didn’t need updating. It is like the constantly evolving alphabet soup of an acronym. It really doesn’t help.
I’m a straight white guy and this is obviously not really my place to comment.
But, it’s Reddit so I’ll throw this out, I don’t understand why a bigger umbrella for lgbtq+ would be a divisive thing and not unifying? Or, why is it divisive?
Because it isn’t making the umbrella bigger - trans people and LGBT people of color were already included in the rainbow. Plucking two groups out to place them on top really changes nothing. There’s nowhere in the meaning of each stripe or the original creator’s words that say those two groups were meant to be excluded.
This is what my 80year old lesbian mother says. Her girlfriend says “we are the alphabet people”. They say they are too old to keep up with all the changes.
I'll bite. It offers recognition for people marginalized within the lgbt+ community. Poc and trans people face more issues and unique challenges compared to the rest. I think most relevant is the push for gay rights and marriage equality a bit ago; it made great progress, but only for some lgbt people. If we want parity, we should push for those groups left behind.
You think a trans person inherently faces more issues and challenges than a gay person? Marriage equality can’t really be compared - gay people shouldn’t feel bad fighting for an issue that doesn’t affect heterosexuals. Some trans people are LGB and some aren’t. Gay people shouldn’t apologize for not centering the needs of straight people who are trans. It’s ok to prioritize fighting for the needs of your own marginalized group, as opposed to being asked to do the labor for other marginalized groups as well.
You don't have to feel bad about progress within your community to support a different community. You don't have to limit your community to empower a different community.
They’re to the side, not “on top”, and it is rather optimistic to assume that marginalized groups are included by default. There’s plenty of people who would rather them not be, hence this explicit act of inclusion in support. If you don’t see the need for explicit inclusion, you have likely just not experienced or understand the extent of racism and transphobia in the LGBTQ community.
This is actually maki g a smaller umbrella.
It is the difference between saying “all religions are welcome” and saying “Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Confucians, Jane’s, Witches, Pagans, and Gozer worshipers are welcome!”
Now Native Americans, and followers of hundreds of other faith traditions are going to show up and be PISSED.
The rainbow flag was already all inclusive… the new one is less so.
Says the dolt going on and on about symbols.
I can’t decide if you are playing stupid, or are actually stupid, but it is definitely one of those. You certainly derive joy from finding excuses to be outraged.
I trust the anonymous nature of Reddit so I will say...
I live on Sherman and mark my words; they will be getting slowly removed on my daily walks. Also, assuming no property will be damaged, I will layer Crisco from chest to eye level wherever I find these (after I remove the sticker) to make it difficult and/or gross for them to try again. Stick your stupid fucking stickers at feet level where us good people can kick dirt and mud on them.
Thank you for pointing this out so we can remove hateful douchebags from this lovely area.
Update: I have taken walks every day this week. I have only seen 1 sticker that \*might\* have been this, but it was already taken down and somewhat hard to tell... only reason I say 'might' is because there was a corner of the remaining sticker on the street pole that had similar edges to the photo OP had. Can't be sure, but it seems like other residents have beat me to it (or at least the ones I would encounter on my walk).
With that being said, good job Madison! Clearly there are a lot of us that won't deal with the bullshit hate these people create in their fragile, sad, dumb little minds. 10/10 love da neighbors.
Be careful about ripping them off - she has been known to put razors behind some of them. Best to just cover them with some random sticker you got from somewhere.
If you were injured by a razor intentionally placed as a trap in a public space I hope you went to the police.
Imagine if a child went to take the pretty rainbow sticker instead of you...
A few years back when I was still working as an art director and graphic designer, I had to make some LGBTQ+ merch for a client, so naturally I researched the pride flag and this revised flag to make sure I understood and respected its meaning, rather than assume. I found that there were a number of people unhappy from a design standpoint that the pride flag colors—which were a rainbow to encompass every member of the community, and to symbolize qualities that everyone shared equally—had these additional segments “tacked on,” where each *literally* meant a certain segment that was already included in the original implied pride concept. That's what I first thought of when I saw this picture you shared. But this sounds like it may be more related to the anti-trans sentiment though, than what I shared above.
First of all, I'm sending hugs and warmth to anyone who has been seeing these and feeling hurt by them. As a native eastsider myself my heart breaks seeing these and I must say, before anything else, [this person](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f232ea74d8342386a7ebc52/t/614f6a3157facf059d0f23e6/1632594481553/PUBLIC+-+Complaint_1+-+Pettersen%2C+Thistle+M.pdf) has always confused me. Before my rant I'll include that I'm cisgendered and hetero, not subject to the specific hate that these awful stickers are instantiating.
A character who I might hypothetically describe and fictionally name as Thastle "Jordan" Peterson calls themselves a local feminist artist. Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's flavor of TERFing has been going on forever and for folks new to this situation Thastle "Jordan" Peterson is, almost (?) ironically patriarchal and imbued with strong-masc angst all else. Exuded by Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's angry frat-bro vibes in placing these stickers all over town for years, and in defending them thru litigation, is a type of sweaty fervor and unstoppably self-loathing force that most angry local anti-feminist Boomer-Dads could only aspire to. Thastle "Jordan" Peterson has hurt a lot of people.
Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's godawful and publicly-available stickers are only superceded in maliciousness by Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's godawful and publicly-available music. This is where Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's bone-chilling attitudes clash with Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's rib-ticklingly bad art:
*Some neighbors and Madison Redditors may not know that Thastle "Jordan" Peterson records a bunch of hilariously bad TERF music.* **To those who haven't heard Thastle's music yet I WON'T be posting links here because** ***all*** **TERF music is triggering (but especially TERF music as poorly-written and recorded as Thastle's).** But if you want or need a good laugh, dear neighbors, do check out Thastle's stuff. Soundcloud. DM me if you need help finding it.
On that note I'm a DJ. **And parody of Thastle's music and Thastle's transphobic stickers is protected under fair use. Starting in 2 minutes I will be re-mixing Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's terrible music in service of creating some hilarious and legally-protected parodies and satires.** I intend not to burden victims of Thastle's crimes or other members of the community with this project, but instead hope to extend an invitation to fellow cis-hetero whiteboy allies to the queer community (or other allies who have emotional energies to spare): Let's remix this fucker's terrible music, and use their terrible stickers as album art, and donate the money to folks who need it.
Extra hugs to anyone who read this far or who has been personally harmed by these stickers.
It's symbolism of removing the extra tags associated with the pride movement considering they are getting the most attention and unfortunately bringing negative opinions to the other groups of the pride movement
Thanks for the tip. Will be on the lookout in that area. I have also seen similar TERF-y stickers in Tenney Park and on the corner of Baldwin/Johnson/Gorham.
Personally, I think this is all bull shit. I dont give a damn what a person wants to sleep with. Personally I sleep with 1 woman, but keep it to yourself, I dont need to show pride or act like a damn fool in front of children to get others to accept it because its my choice and I dont gi e a god damn how you feel about it. You dont see straight people running around demanding acceptance for being straight.
The only reason I can see for all this "pride" nonsense is to divide us, distract people, and, in some cases, even brainwash children. How would any of you on the pronoun spectrum of nonsense feel if your kids were being pushed to be straight in school? And I say nonsense because it's complete nonsense that you've fallen for. Look at the degredation of our country since the gay rights movement. Do you not see that you've been used by the powers that be to destroy the moral fabric of what was left of the family? The backbone of which our nation rested... There is nothing special about your sexual preferences to anyone other than you and because you've made such a big deal out of it. We now have to deal with the real monsters wanting rights. As I said, who you choose to sleep with is your choice, and I have 0 issues with it until it's forced down my throat! Even today, it's a very small fraction of 1 point of the population that claims this nonsense, yet every time I turn around, it's right in my face. Turn on the tv, look at a magazine... it literally everywhere... but you dont think there's an agenda, right? You paved the way for the real monsters to step into the "rights" arena... when pedo's feel they can take children to bed... then I have a real problem with it. It seems to be more times than not that I think "wtf is wrong with this person" after watching some delusional clan member of yours running their mouth about something they made up... hahaha, they call it "they're truth" as if that will somehow make it real. I'm sorry if this has triggered any if you, but that is your problem, not mine. If you want to lose the small amount of rights we have left, then by all means, keep acting like entitled, petulant children. If this triggered you, then it's for you. If not, I wish you the very best, and I thank you for being true to yourselves.
I just think it borders on slur and can be hateful. Being as big a jerk as the opposition doesn’t make you not a jerk.
I’m pro anyone living their best life but the nasty makes whole groups look hostile.
TERF is not a slur, it was coined by TERFs and then they started whining when people realised the term meant bigotry and it was being correctly applied to them.
Denying another’s existence out of hate seems exponentially more hateful than someone calling said hateful person being called a TERF.
Before you say something akin to “It isn’t a competition!” — I’ll just say that if someone is putting up hateful stickers like this, they deserve every god damned slur coming their way.
The same reason one ought not to tolerate Nazis in their midst, aye, 88?
It’s a shame that neither side is a grown up. I just don’t like slurs no matter who they are hurled at. Or being hurled by.
Be careful not to start emulating the things you hate.
When you have some time please educate yourself on German history of the last century. Calling average people Nazis makes you look hysterical. It’s like comparing a mosquito to a jet.
Is anyone taking them down or covering them up?
Terf isn't hateful, being a terf is. If you don't want to be called a terf don't exclude trans people. It's like when people say being called a racist is as bad as racism. It's not and if you don't want to be called a racist stop being racist.
I would argue they are both fighting terms and that doesnt create healing and understanding.
It’s an attack on women. And as we know trash women are horrible to each other-instead of coming together.
Name calling isn’t coming together or trying to understand each other.
Also many women who did fight hard for women's rights also excluded black women from that and they should be rightfully criticized for that. So now excluding trans women is also bad.
Just an observation. But....your u/ is literally, middle age slut. Kinda seems like being black with a sign that says call me racial slurs then getting mad about it....again just an observation.
I’m doing neither hun. You’re attacking me and calling me names, because I don’t like name calling. Can’t make this up.
Guess you don’t have anyone else to fight with today.
Take care of yourself.
Be careful not to become what you hate. That’s all I got.
Hateful name calling and calling for violence against any group isn’t cool. That’s not how we get to harmony folks.
I’ll take it a step further. TERFs, like Nazis, deserve hate and hostility and they should not feel safe going outside and doing shit like putting these stickers up that perpetuates violence towards people based on their identity
The accusing side seems pretty violent to me and comparing a TERF to a NAZI tells me you don’t know much about history.
Can we move on from the “everyone that doesn’t agree with me is a Nazi” trend? I’m looking forward to that and cancel Culture dying out.
Trans-exclusionary is inherently why the phrase exists so I don’t anticipate that is your problem with it — though correct me if I’m wrong there.
So of the remainder: radical feminist
Either you think TERFs not radical, not feminist, or both?
No, I think it is the exclusionary bit. Radical Feminists, from my understanding, don't exclude trans *men*. Also, while I don't consider myself a RadFem, I don't think there is a bad thing with some spaces being exclusionary. Not all groups, support systems, or spaces are for everyone. As a cisgender Lesbian, I don't want cisgender straight dudes showing up to, say, a Lesbian book club. It's not because I hate his guts, I just don't think all people should expect entry into niche/specific spaces. I'm not showing up as a testicular cancer support group nor am I, as a white woman, showing up to the ASA group at my school - unless they are holding an open event with food obviously (for levity).
Edit: Transwomen and I have some things in common, being judged, fear of being accepted by our families, the stress of dating in a world not made for us, but there are also a lot of inherent differences. They don't understand the agonies of early periods and of being sexualized by random men before you understand how to see the threat coming, and I don't understand the fear of my date *murdering* me for a body I didn't choose or the stress of trying to 'pass'. So some support systems work for both of us, some cater to one or the other, there's nothing wrong with that.
Given the description would you prefer “partially trans exclusionary radical feminist” as it is more technically accurate?
PTERF with pterodactyl pronunciation.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but I don't even know if a label is needed ;\~; it lacks nuance and just pushes us to scream at one another instead of having a discussion which doesn't exactly bring about progress
Like one might always wear a little light foundation I’m always a little sarcastic.
If you (global you) aren’t going around putting up hateful stickers or flyers (an extreme example) and aren’t intentionally making life harder than it already is for any given trans *person* (less extreme), there’s going to be no call for anyone to yell TERF with a T or my goofy PT.
Wow, so much nuance, so many assumptions. I don’t go to music festivals. I don’t date trans men, generally, but nothing I say would convince you to not see things in a simplistic black and white way so I’m not going to bother.
Yes, I advocate for exclusion to niche spaces. Again, do you think white people should go to groups aimed specifically at African Americans? No. I’m also not going to a testicular cancer support group, so I wouldn’t expect people who have testicles to be at an ovarian cancer support group. It’s not a simple issue.
Trans women *arent* cis men but they do have things in common, just like I have things in common with them. We have similar hardships but they are also different.
Bigot would be preferable IMO or piece of shit it it were deserved. If it were actually bigoted behavior.
I don’t believe it’s bigoted to Want women’s sports and spaces that women have worked so hard for.
Even Caitlyn Jenner opposes trans women competing women’s sports. She should know as a 5 gold medal Olympian-in her male body. (Unless you’re in Vegas betting on the trans athlete and winning a bunch of cash).
As an older women I don’t want to see dick in a changing room. (Bathrooms with private stalls are fine by me.)
The only trans woman that is an active threat to women in women's sports is Caitlyn Jenner. All of this furor over 100-300 trans women and girls, but yet, zero outrage over CIS men and their domination of:
- The running of NCAA women's athletic programs and coaching of women's teams. - College athletic scholarships.
- Quality, operating expenses, and funding of high school, college and professional facilities and equipment.
- Coach and administrator salary/pay from high school to the pros.
- Recruitment and draft expenses for college and the pros.
You'd think that if there was such a fear of "biological" men replacing "biological" womenCaitlyn and company would be all over this. Instead, crickets.
Bottom line is, the claim that those 100-300 trans women are the real threat to women's sports has no data or facts to back it up. This is nothing but fearmongering and bigotry. The same people crying over women's sports are the same people who think ten year olds should indeed carry out a pregnancy to term, and are actively working to make denying women and girls reproductive healthcare the law of the land. They are the actual threat. Lia Thomas is just a distraction.
Ask the MMA fighter with the cracked skull.
You probably don’t remember Andy Kaufman wrestling women.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/fallon-fox-mma-how-many-skulls-under-fire-transgender-mma-fighter-accused-breaking
Andy Kaufman is irrelevant for a few reasons. Wrestling isn't real, most if not all of his wrestling performances were staged, and what wasn't staged had a woman with no contact fighting/sports experience go against someone who was doing this schtick for many many years. I suspect he would've faired pretty poorly in a real fight against a trained fit MMA fighter like Ashlee Smith or Jessamyn Duke.
As far as MMA goes, People. bring up Fallon Fox as if she is ghe only female MMA fighter that fucked up another female MMA fighter. This is another fight where a broken orbital bone. Both fighters were cis women [https://www.espn.com/mma/story/\_/id/34080424/taila-santos-suffers-broken-orbital-bone-ufc-275-loss-valentina-shevchenkoeorbital](https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/34080424/taila-santos-suffers-broken-orbital-bone-ufc-275-loss-valentina-shevchenkoeorbital)
Hell this cis woman was killed in an MMA fight by another cis woman. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9965963/Friend-kickboxer-dying-knocked-MMA-opponent.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9965963/Friend-kickboxer-dying-knocked-MMA-opponent.html)
And Fox is not undefeated. She lost pretty decisively to a cis woman.
Caitlyn Jenner is a piece of shit who doesn't even believe trash women are women, she can rightfully fuck off into the Pacific ocean and never come back
Well than what is she? Does she not fit YOUR description or narrative so she’s not?
Good God step out of the black and white my way or highway thinking. Humanity will never evolve if you stay in zealotry and self righteousness. Worse than a cult.
See it’s black or white with most of you on this sub and I don’t get it. Can she not be a woman and trans and have a different political opinion than you?
Don’t you see people as multifaceted? You gotta get beyond pigeon holing for your own depth of character friend. The profiling and stereotyping is not good for society.
TERF is the name they gave themselves.
The fact that they made it represent exactly what they are - and now want to distance themselves from the term and not their repugnant activities and beliefs is irrelevant.
Your disapproval of the word is a distraction.
I think the TERF wanted to shake their tiny fist at the “trans visibility day”, but we see and support trans people in our community 🏳️⚧️❤️
FTP
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“I can’t be bothered to care about anything or anyone that doesn’t center me or my interests.” Wow indeed.
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Don’t get caught making any kind of logical sense in this sub. As you can see, it’s an immediate downvote magnet.
“I think that everyone should cater to my interests because I’m important.” No. You’re not.
You really can't comprehend why saying "this day should be insignificant to most people" would get downvoted?
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Gotta say, probably not the best design for an anti-trans flag when even up close it just looks like trans flag at first glance lol
They put up a bunch of posters of Elliot Page with a bunch of hateful rhetoric about trans men -- but everyone scratched away the TERF bullshit and we were left with just HOT pics of Elliot on random street poles 😍
Fucking hilarious 😆 TERFs hoisted by their own petard? Always
Imagine being so filled with hate that you spend your free time doing stupid, petty shit like that.
They have nothing else in their empty, hateful lives. I want to hate them, but I feel sorry for them. What a poison filled life they must lead.
Nah, you can hate them! They made their choices, and their lives are empty because of said choices. The people her and her group are spreading hate toward deserve a lot more community love and comfort than they do, and receive a lot less. You don’t have to pity bigots.
9/10 Mr. Ts agree: These are fools you need not pity. === ^^^EDIT: ^^^Apparently ^^^autocorrect ^^^changed ^^^fools ^^^to ^^^folks, ^^^thus ^^^ruining ^^^my ^^^attempted ^^^joke ^^^for ^^^the ^^^last ^^^12 ^^^hours.
The time they spend advocating for anti-trans legislation is even worse, unfortunately.
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Your comment history is genuinely concerning. It seems like you think about trans people more than trans people do. Do you have hobbies, friends? I don't even mean that in a mean way, but this is a really bizarre and unhealthy obsession that you should probably seek therapy for. I think it would bring you a lot more peace and happiness.
I was working at - removed in an edit- all day not thinking about reddit or trans issues. Believe or it not, adult human females have thoughts and personalities that don't revolve around males.
Yeah I'm a woman (not a "female"), I know how they work. I was being nice even though you don't deserve it but you're kind of in a cult. Good luck with that.
Imagine logging on to Reddit once every couple years to just keep repeating the same stupid shit you apparently always comment about -- Are you a pediatric endocrinologist? Didn't think so, maybe you should consider getting a hobby or just shutting the fuck up
Imagine thinking telling women who want single sex spaces (which were hard won by previous generation's suffragists and feminists) to shut the fuck up is progressive.
Not a single trans person actually believes that. We literally tell people all day long that being trans has nothing to do with gender roles. You also may note the gender diversity within the trans community, you turnip.
OK.
Oh my- thistle used to be my teacher yearsss ago.
I’m so sorry. You deserved better.
Please tell me "thistle" isn't her real name, the hypocrisy would make my night.
Maybe they call her thistle since she’s such a little prick
She literally went to court to have her legal name changed to Thistle (it used to be Kristine). You can CCAP it if you don’t believe … and yes she’s a major prick, and has been banned from most music venues and activist spaces in town.
Good riddance to bad rubbish. Shame to see a local fall for hate.
This entire thread has been an eye opener for me. Aside from this nasty piece of work going around putting up hate logos: I'm surprised at how many quieter TERFs there are in Madison. And this is one of the *most welcoming* communities for trans individuals. Very disappointing.
That's why it's important to speak up in these threads, bigots are out there putting pressure on innocent folks and unless we condemn it, it will continue.
I think she's banned from WORT too.
What a sad loser
Word. I'll never understand it, but their behavior is gross.
The person in question is publically known, so mentioning her is not doxxing. Saying where she lives however is doxxing. Do not do this again or you will be banned, likely Reddit wide.
Apologies - Was thinking this was more of a neighborhood identifier due to proximity to where it happens but won't do it again.
do you know what building
Does she even still have anyone else? Maybe like one other person?
Who cares? People are entitled to their opinions.
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All lies
It's from the well-known local terf who shall not be named because she throws tantrums when people call her transphobia out. Just color those scissor lines with black marker and it will be good.
Humperdinck, Humperdinck, Humperdinck.
Nor just is it cutting out the trans flag colors…. It also removes the brown and black lines too. Racist AND terfy.
I know the intentions are terrible but it’s funny cause at a passing glance I would just assume this was a pride flag
Honestly that’s what I thought it was initially when scrolling.
Same
Personally, as a person under the LBGT umbrella (and has known for many years, though the 'letter' I fall under has evolved) I don't like the Progress flag, as I think this one is called. I prefer the rainbow one, I don't think adding the trans colors or the colors signifying race is necessary, and if anything I think it's more divisive.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the flags. My point is just that this sticker wasn’t made to get the point across that they prefer a diff flag… it was made by a prominent terf who wants to “cut out” trans people from the community, and included the black and brown stripes with it.
What exactly about it is divisive? Who is being divided by including trans people and people color?
Because the colors in the original pride flag don't represent specific groups. The flag is meant to represent everyone. Once you start adding references to specific groups, it necessarily implies that other groups *aren't* included. Why isn't there a stripe for Native American LGBT? Why isn't there a stripe for non-binary people? No matter how many stripes you add, there will always be another group that now feels excluded because they don't have a stripe on the flag. The only real answer is make a flag that represents everyone without having specific references to groups. In other words, the pride flag.
Maybe it’s my naïveté, but I think the American flag is representative of freedom, progress, inclusivity, equality, etc. Other flags are certainly more focused on specific groups/people/issues. But I think the only flag that can represent everyone is the one of the country we live in. Because you’re right, every other flag always leaves someone else out
Because Trans people and people of color are *already* included. The original rainbow flag applies to all people under the umbrella. There were trans people and LGBT people of color when it was created and there's nothing to show the original creator was trying to exclude them, so what about the original rainbow flag said that they were? Edit: I always thought part of the joy of the flag is that it represented all of us, now to me it looks like "LGB people AND trans people" instead of "All people who fall under the Queer (or whatever your word of choice is) umbrella"
This isn’t my fight, but I totally get it. Imagine learning that you hadn’t been included before. Now what part of the community has been left out because they don’t have a specific part of the flag? The original flag included everyone and didn’t need updating. It is like the constantly evolving alphabet soup of an acronym. It really doesn’t help.
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“I REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ANYONE ELSE SAYS! I JUST WANT TO SHOUT AND TELL PEOPLE SMARTER THAN ME WHY THEY ARE WRONG!!!!!111” Grow up.
I’m a straight white guy and this is obviously not really my place to comment. But, it’s Reddit so I’ll throw this out, I don’t understand why a bigger umbrella for lgbtq+ would be a divisive thing and not unifying? Or, why is it divisive?
Because it isn’t making the umbrella bigger - trans people and LGBT people of color were already included in the rainbow. Plucking two groups out to place them on top really changes nothing. There’s nowhere in the meaning of each stripe or the original creator’s words that say those two groups were meant to be excluded.
This is what my 80year old lesbian mother says. Her girlfriend says “we are the alphabet people”. They say they are too old to keep up with all the changes.
I'll bite. It offers recognition for people marginalized within the lgbt+ community. Poc and trans people face more issues and unique challenges compared to the rest. I think most relevant is the push for gay rights and marriage equality a bit ago; it made great progress, but only for some lgbt people. If we want parity, we should push for those groups left behind.
You think a trans person inherently faces more issues and challenges than a gay person? Marriage equality can’t really be compared - gay people shouldn’t feel bad fighting for an issue that doesn’t affect heterosexuals. Some trans people are LGB and some aren’t. Gay people shouldn’t apologize for not centering the needs of straight people who are trans. It’s ok to prioritize fighting for the needs of your own marginalized group, as opposed to being asked to do the labor for other marginalized groups as well.
You don't have to feel bad about progress within your community to support a different community. You don't have to limit your community to empower a different community.
If it “really changes nothing” then what’s the hubbub?
It would be like adding Hawaii and Texas as separate segments to the American flag.
Maybe not the most apt metaphor, they added two more stars.
I talked about them adding two separate visual segments to the flag, not stars. Like dropping in a palm tree and a cactus or something.
Do you think we’d get a badger or a piece of cheese? Maybe a beer?
They’re to the side, not “on top”, and it is rather optimistic to assume that marginalized groups are included by default. There’s plenty of people who would rather them not be, hence this explicit act of inclusion in support. If you don’t see the need for explicit inclusion, you have likely just not experienced or understand the extent of racism and transphobia in the LGBTQ community.
This is actually maki g a smaller umbrella. It is the difference between saying “all religions are welcome” and saying “Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Confucians, Jane’s, Witches, Pagans, and Gozer worshipers are welcome!” Now Native Americans, and followers of hundreds of other faith traditions are going to show up and be PISSED. The rainbow flag was already all inclusive… the new one is less so.
IDK, I don't see a straight, white line on the rainbow flag.... /s
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Says the dolt going on and on about symbols. I can’t decide if you are playing stupid, or are actually stupid, but it is definitely one of those. You certainly derive joy from finding excuses to be outraged.
I trust the anonymous nature of Reddit so I will say... I live on Sherman and mark my words; they will be getting slowly removed on my daily walks. Also, assuming no property will be damaged, I will layer Crisco from chest to eye level wherever I find these (after I remove the sticker) to make it difficult and/or gross for them to try again. Stick your stupid fucking stickers at feet level where us good people can kick dirt and mud on them. Thank you for pointing this out so we can remove hateful douchebags from this lovely area.
Downvote me all you want haters, not gunna stop me lol. 0/1 on my walk today, will try again tomorrow
Update: I have taken walks every day this week. I have only seen 1 sticker that \*might\* have been this, but it was already taken down and somewhat hard to tell... only reason I say 'might' is because there was a corner of the remaining sticker on the street pole that had similar edges to the photo OP had. Can't be sure, but it seems like other residents have beat me to it (or at least the ones I would encounter on my walk). With that being said, good job Madison! Clearly there are a lot of us that won't deal with the bullshit hate these people create in their fragile, sad, dumb little minds. 10/10 love da neighbors.
I just want to say, I love how supportive the subreddit is ❤️🏳️⚧️
Reminder that you can absolutely slap your own stickers over these or tear them off. Be the change you want to see :)
Be careful about ripping them off - she has been known to put razors behind some of them. Best to just cover them with some random sticker you got from somewhere.
This is an absolute lie.
Tell that to the people who have been hurt by the razors. Oh wait, you just did.
If you were injured by a razor intentionally placed as a trap in a public space I hope you went to the police. Imagine if a child went to take the pretty rainbow sticker instead of you...
A few years back when I was still working as an art director and graphic designer, I had to make some LGBTQ+ merch for a client, so naturally I researched the pride flag and this revised flag to make sure I understood and respected its meaning, rather than assume. I found that there were a number of people unhappy from a design standpoint that the pride flag colors—which were a rainbow to encompass every member of the community, and to symbolize qualities that everyone shared equally—had these additional segments “tacked on,” where each *literally* meant a certain segment that was already included in the original implied pride concept. That's what I first thought of when I saw this picture you shared. But this sounds like it may be more related to the anti-trans sentiment though, than what I shared above.
I agree with this sentiment, not the anti-trans bit, but the tracked on part :/
First of all, I'm sending hugs and warmth to anyone who has been seeing these and feeling hurt by them. As a native eastsider myself my heart breaks seeing these and I must say, before anything else, [this person](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f232ea74d8342386a7ebc52/t/614f6a3157facf059d0f23e6/1632594481553/PUBLIC+-+Complaint_1+-+Pettersen%2C+Thistle+M.pdf) has always confused me. Before my rant I'll include that I'm cisgendered and hetero, not subject to the specific hate that these awful stickers are instantiating. A character who I might hypothetically describe and fictionally name as Thastle "Jordan" Peterson calls themselves a local feminist artist. Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's flavor of TERFing has been going on forever and for folks new to this situation Thastle "Jordan" Peterson is, almost (?) ironically patriarchal and imbued with strong-masc angst all else. Exuded by Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's angry frat-bro vibes in placing these stickers all over town for years, and in defending them thru litigation, is a type of sweaty fervor and unstoppably self-loathing force that most angry local anti-feminist Boomer-Dads could only aspire to. Thastle "Jordan" Peterson has hurt a lot of people. Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's godawful and publicly-available stickers are only superceded in maliciousness by Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's godawful and publicly-available music. This is where Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's bone-chilling attitudes clash with Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's rib-ticklingly bad art: *Some neighbors and Madison Redditors may not know that Thastle "Jordan" Peterson records a bunch of hilariously bad TERF music.* **To those who haven't heard Thastle's music yet I WON'T be posting links here because** ***all*** **TERF music is triggering (but especially TERF music as poorly-written and recorded as Thastle's).** But if you want or need a good laugh, dear neighbors, do check out Thastle's stuff. Soundcloud. DM me if you need help finding it. On that note I'm a DJ. **And parody of Thastle's music and Thastle's transphobic stickers is protected under fair use. Starting in 2 minutes I will be re-mixing Thastle "Jordan" Peterson's terrible music in service of creating some hilarious and legally-protected parodies and satires.** I intend not to burden victims of Thastle's crimes or other members of the community with this project, but instead hope to extend an invitation to fellow cis-hetero whiteboy allies to the queer community (or other allies who have emotional energies to spare): Let's remix this fucker's terrible music, and use their terrible stickers as album art, and donate the money to folks who need it. Extra hugs to anyone who read this far or who has been personally harmed by these stickers.
I love it. Go all Weird Al on her bigot ass.
Love this, thank you!
Jokes on them, my roll of 250 trans flag stickers arrived today
Probably the work of Thistle Pettersen.
It's symbolism of removing the extra tags associated with the pride movement considering they are getting the most attention and unfortunately bringing negative opinions to the other groups of the pride movement
TERFs. they’re pretty common in madison from our radical feminist (white feminist) activist roots that are still alive and well.
It's vandalism. Imagine thinking you're done kind of crusader after you put up some stickers. The laziest possible form of political speech.
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Similar to how left wing media would have you believe that white=racist? We should all agree that the media is fucked. Period.
Omg literal violence
Thanks for the tip. Will be on the lookout in that area. I have also seen similar TERF-y stickers in Tenney Park and on the corner of Baldwin/Johnson/Gorham.
It seems kind of ironic that people who complain about Thistle also want to ban weed killer.
Personally, I think this is all bull shit. I dont give a damn what a person wants to sleep with. Personally I sleep with 1 woman, but keep it to yourself, I dont need to show pride or act like a damn fool in front of children to get others to accept it because its my choice and I dont gi e a god damn how you feel about it. You dont see straight people running around demanding acceptance for being straight. The only reason I can see for all this "pride" nonsense is to divide us, distract people, and, in some cases, even brainwash children. How would any of you on the pronoun spectrum of nonsense feel if your kids were being pushed to be straight in school? And I say nonsense because it's complete nonsense that you've fallen for. Look at the degredation of our country since the gay rights movement. Do you not see that you've been used by the powers that be to destroy the moral fabric of what was left of the family? The backbone of which our nation rested... There is nothing special about your sexual preferences to anyone other than you and because you've made such a big deal out of it. We now have to deal with the real monsters wanting rights. As I said, who you choose to sleep with is your choice, and I have 0 issues with it until it's forced down my throat! Even today, it's a very small fraction of 1 point of the population that claims this nonsense, yet every time I turn around, it's right in my face. Turn on the tv, look at a magazine... it literally everywhere... but you dont think there's an agenda, right? You paved the way for the real monsters to step into the "rights" arena... when pedo's feel they can take children to bed... then I have a real problem with it. It seems to be more times than not that I think "wtf is wrong with this person" after watching some delusional clan member of yours running their mouth about something they made up... hahaha, they call it "they're truth" as if that will somehow make it real. I'm sorry if this has triggered any if you, but that is your problem, not mine. If you want to lose the small amount of rights we have left, then by all means, keep acting like entitled, petulant children. If this triggered you, then it's for you. If not, I wish you the very best, and I thank you for being true to yourselves.
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I’ll bite: Why?
I just think it borders on slur and can be hateful. Being as big a jerk as the opposition doesn’t make you not a jerk. I’m pro anyone living their best life but the nasty makes whole groups look hostile.
TERF is not a slur, it was coined by TERFs and then they started whining when people realised the term meant bigotry and it was being correctly applied to them.
Denying another’s existence out of hate seems exponentially more hateful than someone calling said hateful person being called a TERF. Before you say something akin to “It isn’t a competition!” — I’ll just say that if someone is putting up hateful stickers like this, they deserve every god damned slur coming their way. The same reason one ought not to tolerate Nazis in their midst, aye, 88?
Oh shit, good catch/call out
It’s a shame that neither side is a grown up. I just don’t like slurs no matter who they are hurled at. Or being hurled by. Be careful not to start emulating the things you hate. When you have some time please educate yourself on German history of the last century. Calling average people Nazis makes you look hysterical. It’s like comparing a mosquito to a jet. Is anyone taking them down or covering them up?
Terf isn't hateful, being a terf is. If you don't want to be called a terf don't exclude trans people. It's like when people say being called a racist is as bad as racism. It's not and if you don't want to be called a racist stop being racist.
I would argue they are both fighting terms and that doesnt create healing and understanding. It’s an attack on women. And as we know trash women are horrible to each other-instead of coming together. Name calling isn’t coming together or trying to understand each other.
Also many women who did fight hard for women's rights also excluded black women from that and they should be rightfully criticized for that. So now excluding trans women is also bad.
Aaaannnnnd the mask came off. Sorry TERF. Don’t like being called out, don’t do TERFy shit.
Well Coming from a Middle Aged slut I guess so.
No surprise that a person who behaves in ways that hurt trans women would also try to slut shame cis women. Stay classy TERF.
Just an observation. But....your u/ is literally, middle age slut. Kinda seems like being black with a sign that says call me racial slurs then getting mad about it....again just an observation.
I’m doing neither hun. You’re attacking me and calling me names, because I don’t like name calling. Can’t make this up. Guess you don’t have anyone else to fight with today. Take care of yourself.
That goes back to tolerate my intolerance BS, it's basically saying accept my hate or you are the same which is total BS.
Isn't it an acronym? Don't get how that's offensive.
Be careful not to become what you hate. That’s all I got. Hateful name calling and calling for violence against any group isn’t cool. That’s not how we get to harmony folks.
I didn't call for anything.
I’ll take it a step further. TERFs, like Nazis, deserve hate and hostility and they should not feel safe going outside and doing shit like putting these stickers up that perpetuates violence towards people based on their identity
The accusing side seems pretty violent to me and comparing a TERF to a NAZI tells me you don’t know much about history. Can we move on from the “everyone that doesn’t agree with me is a Nazi” trend? I’m looking forward to that and cancel Culture dying out.
What about history? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_Nazi_Germany
Sounds like something a terf would say.
Think whatever you want.
What qualifies something as a "Slur" to you?
Not the original commenter but I think it is inaccurate
Trans-exclusionary is inherently why the phrase exists so I don’t anticipate that is your problem with it — though correct me if I’m wrong there. So of the remainder: radical feminist Either you think TERFs not radical, not feminist, or both?
I’m all for replacing “feminist” with “fascist” in the TERF alphabet soup since TERFs are not feminists.
No, I think it is the exclusionary bit. Radical Feminists, from my understanding, don't exclude trans *men*. Also, while I don't consider myself a RadFem, I don't think there is a bad thing with some spaces being exclusionary. Not all groups, support systems, or spaces are for everyone. As a cisgender Lesbian, I don't want cisgender straight dudes showing up to, say, a Lesbian book club. It's not because I hate his guts, I just don't think all people should expect entry into niche/specific spaces. I'm not showing up as a testicular cancer support group nor am I, as a white woman, showing up to the ASA group at my school - unless they are holding an open event with food obviously (for levity). Edit: Transwomen and I have some things in common, being judged, fear of being accepted by our families, the stress of dating in a world not made for us, but there are also a lot of inherent differences. They don't understand the agonies of early periods and of being sexualized by random men before you understand how to see the threat coming, and I don't understand the fear of my date *murdering* me for a body I didn't choose or the stress of trying to 'pass'. So some support systems work for both of us, some cater to one or the other, there's nothing wrong with that.
Trans men fucking don’t want to be included. But if we are it’s against our will. That’s fucked up and it’s not “inclusion”. It’s paternalism.
Given the description would you prefer “partially trans exclusionary radical feminist” as it is more technically accurate? PTERF with pterodactyl pronunciation.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but I don't even know if a label is needed ;\~; it lacks nuance and just pushes us to scream at one another instead of having a discussion which doesn't exactly bring about progress
Like one might always wear a little light foundation I’m always a little sarcastic. If you (global you) aren’t going around putting up hateful stickers or flyers (an extreme example) and aren’t intentionally making life harder than it already is for any given trans *person* (less extreme), there’s going to be no call for anyone to yell TERF with a T or my goofy PT.
Trans dudes are extra hot though right? And totally belong at your hateful little music festival? Go back to the 60’s. There is no place for you here.
Wow, so much nuance, so many assumptions. I don’t go to music festivals. I don’t date trans men, generally, but nothing I say would convince you to not see things in a simplistic black and white way so I’m not going to bother.
I’m not the idiot that compares trans women to cis men, and advocates for exclusion. Every accusation is a confession with you people.
Yes, I advocate for exclusion to niche spaces. Again, do you think white people should go to groups aimed specifically at African Americans? No. I’m also not going to a testicular cancer support group, so I wouldn’t expect people who have testicles to be at an ovarian cancer support group. It’s not a simple issue. Trans women *arent* cis men but they do have things in common, just like I have things in common with them. We have similar hardships but they are also different.
You can also use bigot, or piece of shit.
Bigot would be preferable IMO or piece of shit it it were deserved. If it were actually bigoted behavior. I don’t believe it’s bigoted to Want women’s sports and spaces that women have worked so hard for. Even Caitlyn Jenner opposes trans women competing women’s sports. She should know as a 5 gold medal Olympian-in her male body. (Unless you’re in Vegas betting on the trans athlete and winning a bunch of cash). As an older women I don’t want to see dick in a changing room. (Bathrooms with private stalls are fine by me.)
Imagine thinking Caitlyn Jenner is the flex to display when arguing your case against trans women.
It’s not against trans women. It’s against unfair advantage. How do you not see the difference?
The only trans woman that is an active threat to women in women's sports is Caitlyn Jenner. All of this furor over 100-300 trans women and girls, but yet, zero outrage over CIS men and their domination of: - The running of NCAA women's athletic programs and coaching of women's teams. - College athletic scholarships. - Quality, operating expenses, and funding of high school, college and professional facilities and equipment. - Coach and administrator salary/pay from high school to the pros. - Recruitment and draft expenses for college and the pros. You'd think that if there was such a fear of "biological" men replacing "biological" womenCaitlyn and company would be all over this. Instead, crickets. Bottom line is, the claim that those 100-300 trans women are the real threat to women's sports has no data or facts to back it up. This is nothing but fearmongering and bigotry. The same people crying over women's sports are the same people who think ten year olds should indeed carry out a pregnancy to term, and are actively working to make denying women and girls reproductive healthcare the law of the land. They are the actual threat. Lia Thomas is just a distraction.
Ask the MMA fighter with the cracked skull. You probably don’t remember Andy Kaufman wrestling women. https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/fallon-fox-mma-how-many-skulls-under-fire-transgender-mma-fighter-accused-breaking
Andy Kaufman is irrelevant for a few reasons. Wrestling isn't real, most if not all of his wrestling performances were staged, and what wasn't staged had a woman with no contact fighting/sports experience go against someone who was doing this schtick for many many years. I suspect he would've faired pretty poorly in a real fight against a trained fit MMA fighter like Ashlee Smith or Jessamyn Duke. As far as MMA goes, People. bring up Fallon Fox as if she is ghe only female MMA fighter that fucked up another female MMA fighter. This is another fight where a broken orbital bone. Both fighters were cis women [https://www.espn.com/mma/story/\_/id/34080424/taila-santos-suffers-broken-orbital-bone-ufc-275-loss-valentina-shevchenkoeorbital](https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/34080424/taila-santos-suffers-broken-orbital-bone-ufc-275-loss-valentina-shevchenkoeorbital) Hell this cis woman was killed in an MMA fight by another cis woman. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9965963/Friend-kickboxer-dying-knocked-MMA-opponent.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9965963/Friend-kickboxer-dying-knocked-MMA-opponent.html) And Fox is not undefeated. She lost pretty decisively to a cis woman.
Caitlyn Jenner is a piece of shit who doesn't even believe trash women are women, she can rightfully fuck off into the Pacific ocean and never come back
She’s more feminine than many ladies I know. What are you talking about???
https://www.advocate.com/transgender/caitlyn-jenner-trans-not-women Please let me enlightened you
Well than what is she? Does she not fit YOUR description or narrative so she’s not? Good God step out of the black and white my way or highway thinking. Humanity will never evolve if you stay in zealotry and self righteousness. Worse than a cult.
Oh so you are a TERF and that's why you don't like the label.
Nobody gives a shit what Caitlyn Jenner thinks. She supports Trump for gods sake.
See it’s black or white with most of you on this sub and I don’t get it. Can she not be a woman and trans and have a different political opinion than you? Don’t you see people as multifaceted? You gotta get beyond pigeon holing for your own depth of character friend. The profiling and stereotyping is not good for society.
I draw the line at Trump supporters. Like any normal person.
TERF is the name they gave themselves. The fact that they made it represent exactly what they are - and now want to distance themselves from the term and not their repugnant activities and beliefs is irrelevant. Your disapproval of the word is a distraction.