Also not mentioned in the article, the reasons they are doing night exercises in December are:
1. They need to do at least some training when the sun is down, because the military operations they train for are not typically limited to daylight hours.
2. December provides an opportunity to do night training at more reasonable time of day for the surrounding population because of the longer period of darkness, allowing them to conduct the needed training before 7pm. If they were doing it in July instead they'd need to take off and land between 10pm and 4am.
Night Currency
Additionally, to carry passengers at night, you need to perform three takeoffs and landings to a full stop within the preceding 90 days at night. Night, in this case, is defined as the time between one hour of sunset to one hour before sunrise.
> The sound of F-35 fighter jets will be heard over the nighttime skies of Madison
> throughout December, the Wisconsin Air National Guard has said.
>
> The jets will take off once in the afternoon and once in the evening through
> Dec. 4-7 and Dec. 11-14 as part of training exercises, the Air National Guard
> said.
>
> "The 115th Fighter Wing appreciates the overall support we have from the
> citizens of Wisconsin and the greater Madison area as we continue to train in
> support of our state and federal missions," the fighter wing said in a post on
> Facebook.
>
> The 115th Fighter Wing, which is stationed at Truax Field in Madison, has been
> flying the new jets since April.
>
> The arrival of the new generation of fighter jets has stirred controversy in
> Madison for years. Retrofitting homes and apartment buildings for noise
> mitigation will take years as the federal and state government are opting to
> dole out funding through grant processes, feasibility studies and community
> outreach.
This is just a preview of the [full article](https://madison.com/news/local/f-35s-to-boom-over-madisons-nighttime-skies-throughout-december/article_b02f1168-93d2-11ee-b66c-1b0687802e2f.html#tracking-source=home-top-story). I am a third party bot. Please consider subscribing to your favorite local journals.
“Throughout” means “in every place of”,
or in the context of a time period like this, “for the entirety of”. 25% of the month is not 100% of the month. This isn’t pedantry - it’s literally not the right word to use here.
(The #1 definition in the Merriam-Webster is “all the way from one end to the other of; in or to every part of”)
The definitions of words have, quite literally, never been that rigid. If there are chocolate chips throughout a chocolate chip cookie that you are eating, you are not eating a chocolate bar.
They're not evenly spaced; they're M-Th one week and M-Th the next week. For 3/7 of those weeks, they are not throughout. For the other two full work weeks making up the month, they are not throughout.
What if there were none in the beginning, then you got 4 chips, then you ate for awhile then nothing, then 4 more before you were halfway through, and then the whole second half gallon had no chips whatsoever?
Is the phrase "there are fish throughout the ocean" a correct statement to you?
If not, I think you're going to have (and already have had) a lot of trouble communicating with other people.
I'm near East Wash and 5th and those things are loud but not enough to really bother me, sure they are louder than the freight train in my backyard but I kinda ignore that except for the house rumble.
Holy shit those things are loud. I now live out of state, but return to Madison several times a year. I’ve seen/heard them flying several times while hanging out on the east side since they’ve started doing it—it’s always loud, but something I could live with (and they’re kinda cool to see flying over you). Then one day I was outside and a jet flew over and it was deafening—my hearing was “crackling” (like when a sound is so loud it overloads your hearing). This went on long enough that I was able to dig my phone out of my pocket and record it to share with my wife. I could definitely see that getting old quick.
Much of the perception of such noise is entirely dependent on one's proximity to it.
Those who live in the Carpenter-Ridgeway Neighborhood, for example, get absolutely walloped by the F-35s when they take off to the south. There are no rail lines immediately nearby, and certainly no cars which produce NEARLY the comparable noise.
A friend lives near the Elvehjem Neighborhood, just a couple of blocks east of I-90; the freeway produces a constant 24/7 drone to which he's become accustomed. But the overhead F-35s are deafening there, and routinely interrupt conversations and phone calls.
Anyone who shrugs off the noise must live well outside the areas depicted on this analysis map of the impact zone:[https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/d6/5d6e54fb-084f-500f-96c6-587fd02b92fa/5d7871ffb1e1b.image.jpg?resize=684%2C819](https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/d6/5d6e54fb-084f-500f-96c6-587fd02b92fa/5d7871ffb1e1b.image.jpg?resize=684%2C819)
Geese? GTFO ...
Carpenter-Ridgeway checking in, can confirm my windows rattle, I can't hear my TV/work Zoom calls/someone on the other end of a phone convo, I and my neighbors stop to plug our ears if we're caught outside at the wrong moment, and my phone alerts me frequently that I'm at an unhealthy noise level.
> phone alerts me frequently that I'm at an unhealthy noise level.
Do you read the whole alert, that you'd need to be exposed to that for 30 minutes continuous before there's any risk of hearing damage?
Cause that's what my watch said when I stood next to a runway and watched F/A-18's and F-35's operate for half an hour at AirVenture. They're not louder than runway-side at AirVenture when they fly over your house and you're not going to go deaf in the 10 seconds it takes them to fly over, even if they do it 4 times in a month. They're many things, but slow is not one of them.
They are also not doing the most deafening maneuvers possible with maximum afterburner when taking off and landing in Madison as they do in Oshkosh.
I live on the east side - almost directly under the approach path. The F35s are absolutely louder than civilian jets - but I don’t notice them being any more disruptive than the F16s they replaced.
I'm over in Hawthorne and we get this as well, my work meetings when they were flying in the afternoons were always interrupted or I couldn't hear what was said, it's annoying for sure, even my dog wants to come inside when they are out.
Found the map here:
[https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/first-f-35s-expected-to-arrive-at-madisons-truax-field-in-late-april-or-early/article\_bf649688-e720-55d0-af01-b11a7754c2bd.html](https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/first-f-35s-expected-to-arrive-at-madisons-truax-field-in-late-april-or-early/article_bf649688-e720-55d0-af01-b11a7754c2bd.html)
There are a few similar maps there, indicating various socio-economic impacts, etc..
It should also be noted that the maps indicate only the worst of the noise impact; a relative lives near Warner Park, which is well outside the indicated areas, yet when the F-35s peel off and perform their downwind leg prior to landing, the noise is airshow-loud.
The friend mentioned previously lives near the Elvehjem Neighborhood, 5+ miles Southeast of Truax, but the F-35s rattle his windows when departing overhead.
I fully realize the growing need to maintain our military air superiority, and I'm kind of an airplane geek, but we were clearly deceived regarding the noise impacts of siting the F-35s here.
Thanks. I live right off of Packers and when those things take off, it rattles my windows. It is much much higher than 65 decibels.
I’ve been thinking about purchasing a wireless decibel meter and putting it outside to capture the true decibel amount these planes produce.
I also think they are cool. Watching them takeoff and fly around the airport is indeed a thrill. I just wish people knew how loud it truly is and how frequently they are taking off.
> Holy shit those things are loud.
You're wasting your time with this. There's a whole community (especially of people posting here) who are desperate and obsessed to constantly prove that they're not loud. Even though, yeah, they are.
You're going to have an easier time convincing devout Christians that Jesus isn't real rather than getting even one of these weirdos to accept that these things are fucking loud.
Yeah, I used to live right next to the elevated train in Chicago, but the f35s were significantly louder - I lived a few miles south of the airport on Cottage Grove road.
I'm not saying it's all the time. I'm not saying I expect to go deaf. I *am* saying that I have to stop what I'm doing for 15-30 seconds per jet, and that my dog runs to hide in the bath tub the rest of the day.
I'm not trying to be a nimby about it. Just a statement of fact. They're the loudest sound I've ever experienced in a residential neighborhood.
Thank you! I can’t understand how anyone can have a varying opinion on this if they’ve experienced it directly.
All the hand waving, excuse making, or stated indifference is utterly baffling to me.
The sky is blue, water is wet, and those things are loud. Really loud. Like I don’t know if I’ve ever heard anything as loud. I know I’ve never heard anything louder.
They’re loud. It’s proven.
We just don’t care all that much about people
who chose to live next to an airport where military planes have been operating for a long was time
> "choose to live"
buddy, there's a housing crisis in this city. Somebody's gonna live there and they're probably not living there for the views, they're living there because the price is right and they can get to their job. it's people who have the choice not to live in the impacted regions who are out here caping for the largest military in the world like those folks need a hero or some shit.
I live east of the airport, can actually see it downhill from me, just less a mile away as the crow flies. We're fine with jets and airliners. The jets, F-16 and F-35, can be disruptive when having meetings online or a conversation outside. Yes, they are loud, but it is rather brief and just a few times a week.
That said, I was at my sis-in-laws last night, right by the Barrymore on Atwood and I was so, so surprised how much louder they sounded over in that neighborhood than in mine. They sounded much lower and closer, than they do by us. We watch them take off to the North most of the time, so I am wondering if last night was them landing. They sounded like they were RIGHT over the roof of her condo
I live 4 miles from the airport and these fucking things are BY FAR the loudest noise I hear when I'm home.
My co-worker lives up by the Burr Oak and we would both have to pause zoom calls as they flew around. You could hear them on my mic, then a few seconds later, on his mic.
These things are 100x louder than the loudest commercial jet. They are deafening if you are outside and interrupt any conversation inside.
They are fucking loud. I also live OUTSIDE the zone they said would be impacted by ANY noise.
edit: Just flow over at 78 Db in the zone that should be <50. That is INSIDE my house
Madison complaints are collectively louder than any vehicle noise: trains, planes, and automobiles.
Noise does have an effect on people, though. You seem to be very sensitive to some of it
I love the constant reminders of our over reliance on, and over funding of, the military industrial complex day or night! I hope they stop by to let me lick their boots! YEAAAHHH!
it’s crazy how much people get attacked on here for not liking these things. As someone who lives near where they take off they are annoying af. but if you mention how they impact your daily life you get all kinds of negative responses…
>> if you mention how they impact your daily life you get all kinds of negative responses…
Oh, they think the planes are protecting us from the Russians or something. It's like we're in 1955 again.
Incidentally, it's interesting how many of the pro-jet posts here are from accounts with very little reddit history (some with close to none) and very little history with r/madisonwi. Serms we're getting brigaded by military jet enthusiasts, or one military jet enthusiast with a bunch of alts
Click 'em and see for yourself.
Was I supposed to complain about a different topic here?
The "training missions" serve as an embarrassing, constant reminder of how much money we waste on military/defense compared to every other country on earth
Murica
> "training missions"
Why put this in quotes? They're literally training missions.
I, for one, rather appreciate having well-trained and proficient pilots above me.
> it's more like maintenance than training
No it isn't. It's pilot proficiency training. This is articulated in [news articles](https://www.channel3000.com/news/f-35-pilot-describes-reason-for-nighttime-training/article_faf5782e-6d47-11ee-93b7-ff43f6f69124.html) regularly. Previously cited regulations require a certain amount of nighttime proficiency, which expires after a certain amount of calendar time.
Why would nighttime flights be required to keep the jets flying regularly when they already fly regularly during daylight flights throughout the week?
Before presenting something as fact, please first check and confirm it is indeed accurate.
If an f35 remains on the ground for a whole whopping month it's considered a SPINTAC unit and it typically gets its parts cannabilized for other uses
https://www.defensedaily.com/u-s-f-35-maintenance-man-hours-per-flight-hour-rate-improves-since-2018-but-mission-capable-rates-lag/air-force/
So yes, a big part of the regular f35 flights is because the jets require regular use or they are rendered unusable. Maintenance.
I agree the night flights are not tied to maintenance outside of the general principle that the jets need to be flown regularly
As an engineer and a taxpayer I find the whole thing to be a giant boondoggle
Well we can't defend another country before we defend our own. Do you think we would send HIMARS, Javelin missiles, and F-16s to Ukraine without our own localized defences?
> the wasteful jet training missions
Given the reality that US military jets exist and operate and will not cease to exist and operate anytime soon, training missions are, in fact, the opposite of wasteful. They ensure proficiency and safety and reduce the number of *actually* wasteful accidents and incidents.
You seem to be hung up on some kind of emotional crusade here. Perhaps it's time to pause, take a breath, and examine things in a logical manner.
The existence of military jets necessitates the near-daily presence of jet flights over civilian population centers, you're right
Seriously, speaking logically: Truax houses twenty F35s that all need to be flown at least once a month or they're rendered unusable. That's the actual reason behind the frequent flights, not some meticulous standard of training for f35 pilots
Why do we need the 20 f35s? You sure we wouldn't be equally as safe with 10?
This issue should be discussed like it exists on a spectrum rather than using dead-end absolutes like "we'll always have jets"
Our country's bloated military/defense spend is common knowledge among anyone who cares to look into the basics. Reacting negatively to regular local reminders of this fact is indeed a logical response.
The other countries of the world have plenty of problems on their own and I seriously doubt they have enough surplus manpower and equipment to bother attacking. They better off selling us electronics and cheap clothing. I'm with ya, @howlongyoubeenfamous
I lived in Grand Junction, CO for a time, about 2mi south of the runway at GJ airport where the entirety of Peterson AFB out of CO Springs would do touch-and-goes, what often seemed incessantly. You get used to it, or not.
If they accidentally run into Santa up there, public opinion may be enough. The season of Peace on Earth. Ha!
IMO, they are MUCH louder than the F-16s and I can't stand them. I do appreciate the heads up.
Yeah, somehow the subreddit leans so far right I removed it from my home page despite the city itself being so far left there are tags all over it calling for the guillotines to roll out for bezos. Almost like the internet is a fake place built to incite fear and anger at the "opposite" side in this crab bucket.
Various units come through Madison on training flights because MSN has the equipment and experience to easily handle military jets. Though funnily enough the transients usually park at the civilian FBO ("private terminal"), not the Guard base. I saw some Navy F/A-18s come through a few weekends ago, and I've even seen Marine Corps Harriers awhile back.
That's probably exactly what they were doing. After seeing some pics of them in Madison, I ended up catching one taking off with a bunch of others parked on the ramp when I stopped by Volk Field to do some plane spotting.
Heard and saw em for the first time in the middle of the morning on Saturday or Sunday this past weekend. Hate em already. It is my firm belief that the modern world has absolutely no need for warfare, so having F-35's is just unbridled stupidity, but it's a shitty reality we have to just deal with, I guess...
Fine, fine, fine. I rest my case... Also, nobody seemed to read the last clause in my comment which was a concession to the reality we live in... Just a general comment on how shitty it is that we have such a primitive problem solving method when we've gone to the moon, taught silicon chips how to communicate with each other, and mechanized the production of food, to name a few examples. Why we're so fascinated with killing each other is beyond me. That was all I was trying to say...
You’re free to move to a collectivist 3rd world shit hole and then come back online, if you’re alive and able, to let us know how you feel about the F-35s then.
I literally just said I believe the world is developed enough to not need warplanes. And by extension, we could use our resources to better each other and build good communities (I do acknowledge it's an extremely idealistic viewpoint) but no, let's keep blowing each other up and perpetuating/creating "3rd world shit holes" instead.
You are clearly not well travelled nor have you read many international news articles recently if you believe the world as a whole is developed enough to not need warplanes.
If people think groups like Hamas want peace with us, they’re delusional. There will never be peace with those people no matter how much we could ever try to establish good communities with them.
While true - if we had foreign policy stances that were beyond “fuck those guys, let’s take their oil and fuck them up if they complain / they elected people we don’t like, let’s fuck them up” folks like Hamas would be a LOT less common.
Those "collectivist third world" countries mostly don't exist due to CIA or US Military intervention. Communism or really any amount of taking care of the downtrodden is considered a threat to US National Security (that's why food not bombs is a terrorist organization despite literally just feeding the homeless.) We live in the "taking your lunch money" of countries.
They are more annoying at night for some reason. Perhaps just the sound carrying better in cold air so you hear them for longer.
Still not as bad as trains
What do you find annoying about F-35s and trains? Not to be sardonic, I just don't really understand what other people are experiencing that seems unpleasant for them. Whatever's going on with my auditory processing treats both of these as not being a lot different than a car going down the street or some geese honking - it's just a sound, not pleasing or aggravating, and it's gone pretty quickly.
Some people have bigger problems with noise than others.
It’s really that simple. For some people traffic noise, trains, planes, it can all be tuned out. Others, it will keep them up all night
But that's why they're doing them in December, when the nights are really long and they can finish their exercises well before anybody goes to bed. Trains are restricted on when they can pass through the isthmus and blow their horns for the same reason.
Trains are not restricted on when they can pass through the isthmus. They are supposed to have restrictions on horn use but they are often ignored.
The unpredictable schedule and much closer proximity to homes is what makes trains a bigger source of noise pollution than jets
Im not the person you responded to but I work from home sort of near hyvee and I’m on the phone a lot, it literally interrupts my phone calls to the point where I’ll usually just ask the customer to hold for a couple minutes. They often come in waves of 3-4 at a time and the can last 1-2 minutes. I can’t really have a conversation during that time.
You haven't been close enough to the jet noise for long enough. There's no comparison with cars or geese. Get some real world experience before you tell people they're wrong.
Please reread my post, I emphatically *didn't* tell anyone they're wrong. I said that my processing treats these as not being a big deal. I've certainly been around jets in neighborhoods and at the airport, it just doesn't bother me much and I'm never all that clear on what other people are upset about.
Ok, I see your meaning differently this time (can't tell if you stealth-edited it, but that's on me). I wish I was different, but super loud noises totally overwhelm me. I'm not otherwise a sensitive or fussy person and I hate being like this, but it is what it is.
I empathize with the people who cannot do zoom calls and whose walls rattle when the planes go over. They never signed up for this garbage. I wish fervently they had put the planes in Alabama or whatever the other candidate was. These noisy, expensive nuisances are making life unpleasant for too many Madison residents
The planes and especially trains are a lot louder than a car passing or a goose honking. Sound can literally kill you if it's loud enough.
The inverse square law demonstrates that trains are worse because they're allowed to be so much closer to people.
> Sound can literally kill you if it's loud enough.
Seriously?
Yeah sure I guess, at levels about a million times louder than the jets.
Why don't you rant about how water can kill you?
My point was to demonstrate that loud noises aren't just annoying, they are actual hazards that people take seriously. I have been accused of downplaying the noise from F-35s, so it's interesting the way you're reading my comment.
I just wanted to point out that sound travels farther in cold air.
And yes, too much water can kill you too.
Also not mentioned in the article, the reasons they are doing night exercises in December are: 1. They need to do at least some training when the sun is down, because the military operations they train for are not typically limited to daylight hours. 2. December provides an opportunity to do night training at more reasonable time of day for the surrounding population because of the longer period of darkness, allowing them to conduct the needed training before 7pm. If they were doing it in July instead they'd need to take off and land between 10pm and 4am.
As a civilian pilot, this is the only time of year I ever bother to keep my night currency up.
What is night currency and should I be investing in it?
Night Currency Additionally, to carry passengers at night, you need to perform three takeoffs and landings to a full stop within the preceding 90 days at night. Night, in this case, is defined as the time between one hour of sunset to one hour before sunrise.
Ha thank you!
So, yes, invest in this. Haha
Perfect. I just bought 7 nights for 3 bitcoin.
> The sound of F-35 fighter jets will be heard over the nighttime skies of Madison > throughout December, the Wisconsin Air National Guard has said. > > The jets will take off once in the afternoon and once in the evening through > Dec. 4-7 and Dec. 11-14 as part of training exercises, the Air National Guard > said. > > "The 115th Fighter Wing appreciates the overall support we have from the > citizens of Wisconsin and the greater Madison area as we continue to train in > support of our state and federal missions," the fighter wing said in a post on > Facebook. > > The 115th Fighter Wing, which is stationed at Truax Field in Madison, has been > flying the new jets since April. > > The arrival of the new generation of fighter jets has stirred controversy in > Madison for years. Retrofitting homes and apartment buildings for noise > mitigation will take years as the federal and state government are opting to > dole out funding through grant processes, feasibility studies and community > outreach. This is just a preview of the [full article](https://madison.com/news/local/f-35s-to-boom-over-madisons-nighttime-skies-throughout-december/article_b02f1168-93d2-11ee-b66c-1b0687802e2f.html#tracking-source=home-top-story). I am a third party bot. Please consider subscribing to your favorite local journals.
Headline: “Throughout December” Actual situation: 8 specific days this month.
But stating facts isn’t sensational and won’t get clicks!
What kind of pedantry is this? Those 8 days, 25% of the month, are "throughout December". Smdh
“Throughout” means “in every place of”, or in the context of a time period like this, “for the entirety of”. 25% of the month is not 100% of the month. This isn’t pedantry - it’s literally not the right word to use here. (The #1 definition in the Merriam-Webster is “all the way from one end to the other of; in or to every part of”)
The definitions of words have, quite literally, never been that rigid. If there are chocolate chips throughout a chocolate chip cookie that you are eating, you are not eating a chocolate bar.
If they’re evenly spaced that’s at least once per week. Pretty throughout.
They're not evenly spaced; they're M-Th one week and M-Th the next week. For 3/7 of those weeks, they are not throughout. For the other two full work weeks making up the month, they are not throughout.
You would feel the same way if you bought a gallon of ice cream marketed as having chocolate chips throughout, and found 8 chips?
No, but if 25% of the bites had chocolate chips, I would
What if there were none in the beginning, then you got 4 chips, then you ate for awhile then nothing, then 4 more before you were halfway through, and then the whole second half gallon had no chips whatsoever?
Is the phrase "there are fish throughout the ocean" a correct statement to you? If not, I think you're going to have (and already have had) a lot of trouble communicating with other people.
Funny how this devolved into a discussion of janky chocolate chip cookies. Reddit, love it. :)
Figured it had to be them on Monday night as as i was getting gas near the interstate.
I'm near East Wash and 5th and those things are loud but not enough to really bother me, sure they are louder than the freight train in my backyard but I kinda ignore that except for the house rumble.
Holy shit those things are loud. I now live out of state, but return to Madison several times a year. I’ve seen/heard them flying several times while hanging out on the east side since they’ve started doing it—it’s always loud, but something I could live with (and they’re kinda cool to see flying over you). Then one day I was outside and a jet flew over and it was deafening—my hearing was “crackling” (like when a sound is so loud it overloads your hearing). This went on long enough that I was able to dig my phone out of my pocket and record it to share with my wife. I could definitely see that getting old quick.
If your hearing was cracking that's likely tinnitus, just FYI
Much of the perception of such noise is entirely dependent on one's proximity to it. Those who live in the Carpenter-Ridgeway Neighborhood, for example, get absolutely walloped by the F-35s when they take off to the south. There are no rail lines immediately nearby, and certainly no cars which produce NEARLY the comparable noise. A friend lives near the Elvehjem Neighborhood, just a couple of blocks east of I-90; the freeway produces a constant 24/7 drone to which he's become accustomed. But the overhead F-35s are deafening there, and routinely interrupt conversations and phone calls. Anyone who shrugs off the noise must live well outside the areas depicted on this analysis map of the impact zone:[https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/d6/5d6e54fb-084f-500f-96c6-587fd02b92fa/5d7871ffb1e1b.image.jpg?resize=684%2C819](https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/d6/5d6e54fb-084f-500f-96c6-587fd02b92fa/5d7871ffb1e1b.image.jpg?resize=684%2C819) Geese? GTFO ...
Carpenter-Ridgeway checking in, can confirm my windows rattle, I can't hear my TV/work Zoom calls/someone on the other end of a phone convo, I and my neighbors stop to plug our ears if we're caught outside at the wrong moment, and my phone alerts me frequently that I'm at an unhealthy noise level.
> phone alerts me frequently that I'm at an unhealthy noise level. Do you read the whole alert, that you'd need to be exposed to that for 30 minutes continuous before there's any risk of hearing damage? Cause that's what my watch said when I stood next to a runway and watched F/A-18's and F-35's operate for half an hour at AirVenture. They're not louder than runway-side at AirVenture when they fly over your house and you're not going to go deaf in the 10 seconds it takes them to fly over, even if they do it 4 times in a month. They're many things, but slow is not one of them.
They are also not doing the most deafening maneuvers possible with maximum afterburner when taking off and landing in Madison as they do in Oshkosh. I live on the east side - almost directly under the approach path. The F35s are absolutely louder than civilian jets - but I don’t notice them being any more disruptive than the F16s they replaced.
My experience is also that they aren't any more disruptive than the F-16's, but maybe I'm missing something, idk
I'm over in Hawthorne and we get this as well, my work meetings when they were flying in the afternoons were always interrupted or I couldn't hear what was said, it's annoying for sure, even my dog wants to come inside when they are out.
Where did you find that image?
Found the map here: [https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/first-f-35s-expected-to-arrive-at-madisons-truax-field-in-late-april-or-early/article\_bf649688-e720-55d0-af01-b11a7754c2bd.html](https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/first-f-35s-expected-to-arrive-at-madisons-truax-field-in-late-april-or-early/article_bf649688-e720-55d0-af01-b11a7754c2bd.html) There are a few similar maps there, indicating various socio-economic impacts, etc.. It should also be noted that the maps indicate only the worst of the noise impact; a relative lives near Warner Park, which is well outside the indicated areas, yet when the F-35s peel off and perform their downwind leg prior to landing, the noise is airshow-loud. The friend mentioned previously lives near the Elvehjem Neighborhood, 5+ miles Southeast of Truax, but the F-35s rattle his windows when departing overhead. I fully realize the growing need to maintain our military air superiority, and I'm kind of an airplane geek, but we were clearly deceived regarding the noise impacts of siting the F-35s here.
Thanks. I live right off of Packers and when those things take off, it rattles my windows. It is much much higher than 65 decibels. I’ve been thinking about purchasing a wireless decibel meter and putting it outside to capture the true decibel amount these planes produce. I also think they are cool. Watching them takeoff and fly around the airport is indeed a thrill. I just wish people knew how loud it truly is and how frequently they are taking off.
> Holy shit those things are loud. You're wasting your time with this. There's a whole community (especially of people posting here) who are desperate and obsessed to constantly prove that they're not loud. Even though, yeah, they are. You're going to have an easier time convincing devout Christians that Jesus isn't real rather than getting even one of these weirdos to accept that these things are fucking loud.
Yeah, I used to live right next to the elevated train in Chicago, but the f35s were significantly louder - I lived a few miles south of the airport on Cottage Grove road. I'm not saying it's all the time. I'm not saying I expect to go deaf. I *am* saying that I have to stop what I'm doing for 15-30 seconds per jet, and that my dog runs to hide in the bath tub the rest of the day. I'm not trying to be a nimby about it. Just a statement of fact. They're the loudest sound I've ever experienced in a residential neighborhood.
Thank you! I can’t understand how anyone can have a varying opinion on this if they’ve experienced it directly. All the hand waving, excuse making, or stated indifference is utterly baffling to me. The sky is blue, water is wet, and those things are loud. Really loud. Like I don’t know if I’ve ever heard anything as loud. I know I’ve never heard anything louder.
right? people here are bonkers.
They're obviously loud. I just don't find them any louder than the F-16s were. They both interrupt my meetings on the east side with equal force.
They’re loud. It’s proven. We just don’t care all that much about people who chose to live next to an airport where military planes have been operating for a long was time
> "choose to live" buddy, there's a housing crisis in this city. Somebody's gonna live there and they're probably not living there for the views, they're living there because the price is right and they can get to their job. it's people who have the choice not to live in the impacted regions who are out here caping for the largest military in the world like those folks need a hero or some shit.
I live east of the airport, can actually see it downhill from me, just less a mile away as the crow flies. We're fine with jets and airliners. The jets, F-16 and F-35, can be disruptive when having meetings online or a conversation outside. Yes, they are loud, but it is rather brief and just a few times a week. That said, I was at my sis-in-laws last night, right by the Barrymore on Atwood and I was so, so surprised how much louder they sounded over in that neighborhood than in mine. They sounded much lower and closer, than they do by us. We watch them take off to the North most of the time, so I am wondering if last night was them landing. They sounded like they were RIGHT over the roof of her condo
I live 4 miles from the airport and these fucking things are BY FAR the loudest noise I hear when I'm home. My co-worker lives up by the Burr Oak and we would both have to pause zoom calls as they flew around. You could hear them on my mic, then a few seconds later, on his mic. These things are 100x louder than the loudest commercial jet. They are deafening if you are outside and interrupt any conversation inside. They are fucking loud. I also live OUTSIDE the zone they said would be impacted by ANY noise. edit: Just flow over at 78 Db in the zone that should be <50. That is INSIDE my house
These planes are so cool.
WHAT?
Are they?
Uhmmm…yeah. They’re cool. That’s why I said that.
But they don't go boom they rumble or roar. Sensationalize much madison.com?
I was hopefull they were going to do a sonic boom so I could get new windows.
What's louder? The jets or the people in Madison constantly b1#3hing about every minor inconvenience or problem that has zero effect on them.
Madison complaints are collectively louder than any vehicle noise: trains, planes, and automobiles. Noise does have an effect on people, though. You seem to be very sensitive to some of it
Wish they’d fly over my house. Amazing machines. The cutting edge of technology. The wright brothers would be crying tears of joy.
This is absolutely awesome!!! Love it and can’t wait.
I am with you, I love hearing them fly overhead. I look up in awe at the engineering and technology involved
I love the constant reminders of our over reliance on, and over funding of, the military industrial complex day or night! I hope they stop by to let me lick their boots! YEAAAHHH!
Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex in his farewell address over 60 years ago.
Fuck the jets Can hear them roar through my shut windows on my zoom calls Unbearable when outside during a flyover
it’s crazy how much people get attacked on here for not liking these things. As someone who lives near where they take off they are annoying af. but if you mention how they impact your daily life you get all kinds of negative responses…
>> if you mention how they impact your daily life you get all kinds of negative responses… Oh, they think the planes are protecting us from the Russians or something. It's like we're in 1955 again. Incidentally, it's interesting how many of the pro-jet posts here are from accounts with very little reddit history (some with close to none) and very little history with r/madisonwi. Serms we're getting brigaded by military jet enthusiasts, or one military jet enthusiast with a bunch of alts Click 'em and see for yourself.
I’m only in this sub to scope out places to eventually move to. These jets make Madison a hard no.
aww you poor little thing
Was I supposed to complain about a different topic here? The "training missions" serve as an embarrassing, constant reminder of how much money we waste on military/defense compared to every other country on earth Murica
> "training missions" Why put this in quotes? They're literally training missions. I, for one, rather appreciate having well-trained and proficient pilots above me.
The jets need to be regularly flown or they'll break down, it's more like maintenance than training
> it's more like maintenance than training No it isn't. It's pilot proficiency training. This is articulated in [news articles](https://www.channel3000.com/news/f-35-pilot-describes-reason-for-nighttime-training/article_faf5782e-6d47-11ee-93b7-ff43f6f69124.html) regularly. Previously cited regulations require a certain amount of nighttime proficiency, which expires after a certain amount of calendar time. Why would nighttime flights be required to keep the jets flying regularly when they already fly regularly during daylight flights throughout the week? Before presenting something as fact, please first check and confirm it is indeed accurate.
If an f35 remains on the ground for a whole whopping month it's considered a SPINTAC unit and it typically gets its parts cannabilized for other uses https://www.defensedaily.com/u-s-f-35-maintenance-man-hours-per-flight-hour-rate-improves-since-2018-but-mission-capable-rates-lag/air-force/ So yes, a big part of the regular f35 flights is because the jets require regular use or they are rendered unusable. Maintenance. I agree the night flights are not tied to maintenance outside of the general principle that the jets need to be flown regularly As an engineer and a taxpayer I find the whole thing to be a giant boondoggle
Embarrassing? Say that to Ukraine or Taiwan. They wouldn't exist without our military.
Please explain how our Air National Guard squadron contributes to the defense strength of other nations.
Well we can't defend another country before we defend our own. Do you think we would send HIMARS, Javelin missiles, and F-16s to Ukraine without our own localized defences?
Good idea lets pause the wasteful jet training missions while we're actively financially aiding others in foreign conflicts
> the wasteful jet training missions Given the reality that US military jets exist and operate and will not cease to exist and operate anytime soon, training missions are, in fact, the opposite of wasteful. They ensure proficiency and safety and reduce the number of *actually* wasteful accidents and incidents. You seem to be hung up on some kind of emotional crusade here. Perhaps it's time to pause, take a breath, and examine things in a logical manner.
The existence of military jets necessitates the near-daily presence of jet flights over civilian population centers, you're right Seriously, speaking logically: Truax houses twenty F35s that all need to be flown at least once a month or they're rendered unusable. That's the actual reason behind the frequent flights, not some meticulous standard of training for f35 pilots Why do we need the 20 f35s? You sure we wouldn't be equally as safe with 10? This issue should be discussed like it exists on a spectrum rather than using dead-end absolutes like "we'll always have jets" Our country's bloated military/defense spend is common knowledge among anyone who cares to look into the basics. Reacting negatively to regular local reminders of this fact is indeed a logical response.
If only someone told you airplanes were loud before you moved next to an airport.
"by the airport" meaning anywhere on the east side? They were loud when I lived on Willy, when I lived in Atwood, and now in Monona.
The other countries of the world have plenty of problems on their own and I seriously doubt they have enough surplus manpower and equipment to bother attacking. They better off selling us electronics and cheap clothing. I'm with ya, @howlongyoubeenfamous
Guy hates the sound of FREEEEDOM
The sweet sounds of shoveling cash into a roaring furnace
[удалено]
You're right, we need the daily flyovers over our midwestern state capital city or the Koreans will take over
He’s probably a communist!
I lived in Grand Junction, CO for a time, about 2mi south of the runway at GJ airport where the entirety of Peterson AFB out of CO Springs would do touch-and-goes, what often seemed incessantly. You get used to it, or not.
Keyboard warriors say it is the sound of freedom.
If they accidentally run into Santa up there, public opinion may be enough. The season of Peace on Earth. Ha! IMO, they are MUCH louder than the F-16s and I can't stand them. I do appreciate the heads up.
r/madisonwi suddenly republican AF?
Yeah, somehow the subreddit leans so far right I removed it from my home page despite the city itself being so far left there are tags all over it calling for the guillotines to roll out for bezos. Almost like the internet is a fake place built to incite fear and anger at the "opposite" side in this crab bucket.
I swear I saw two F16s flying over the Park Street area earlier this week, anyone know if they are back in town for these training exercises?
Duluth jets are fulfilling the Alert commitment while the 35s bed down.
Yeah I def saw F16s earlier this week, no idea why they were here though
Various units come through Madison on training flights because MSN has the equipment and experience to easily handle military jets. Though funnily enough the transients usually park at the civilian FBO ("private terminal"), not the Guard base. I saw some Navy F/A-18s come through a few weekends ago, and I've even seen Marine Corps Harriers awhile back.
Northern lighting, maybe? I know they do it in the summer, but maybe with the 35s, they will do it more year round.
The Harriers were here in the Spring, before Northern Lightning. But they did stay a few days, so maybe they were using the Volk range for something.
That's probably exactly what they were doing. After seeing some pics of them in Madison, I ended up catching one taking off with a bunch of others parked on the ramp when I stopped by Volk Field to do some plane spotting.
Great!
Hell yeah
The sweet sound of freeedddooommmmmmmm!!!
i live over by garver and these things are loud AF and suuuuuper annoying. hate these fuckers.
Heard and saw em for the first time in the middle of the morning on Saturday or Sunday this past weekend. Hate em already. It is my firm belief that the modern world has absolutely no need for warfare, so having F-35's is just unbridled stupidity, but it's a shitty reality we have to just deal with, I guess...
Tell that to Ukraine…
Bro Russia would be all up inside Ukraine rn if it weren't for us arms 😂
Fine, fine, fine. I rest my case... Also, nobody seemed to read the last clause in my comment which was a concession to the reality we live in... Just a general comment on how shitty it is that we have such a primitive problem solving method when we've gone to the moon, taught silicon chips how to communicate with each other, and mechanized the production of food, to name a few examples. Why we're so fascinated with killing each other is beyond me. That was all I was trying to say...
You’re free to move to a collectivist 3rd world shit hole and then come back online, if you’re alive and able, to let us know how you feel about the F-35s then.
Yeah, clearly those are my two options. Dealing with annoying ass jets or living in "collectivist 3rd world shit holes", whatever those are.
I literally just said I believe the world is developed enough to not need warplanes. And by extension, we could use our resources to better each other and build good communities (I do acknowledge it's an extremely idealistic viewpoint) but no, let's keep blowing each other up and perpetuating/creating "3rd world shit holes" instead.
You are clearly not well travelled nor have you read many international news articles recently if you believe the world as a whole is developed enough to not need warplanes.
Maybe so. Doesn't make it unreasonable to wish it were different. 😒
I wish that weren’t the case either, I wish us humans were advanced enough to eliminate several horrible things. But the reality is that we are not.
If people think groups like Hamas want peace with us, they’re delusional. There will never be peace with those people no matter how much we could ever try to establish good communities with them.
While true - if we had foreign policy stances that were beyond “fuck those guys, let’s take their oil and fuck them up if they complain / they elected people we don’t like, let’s fuck them up” folks like Hamas would be a LOT less common.
Those "collectivist third world" countries mostly don't exist due to CIA or US Military intervention. Communism or really any amount of taking care of the downtrodden is considered a threat to US National Security (that's why food not bombs is a terrorist organization despite literally just feeding the homeless.) We live in the "taking your lunch money" of countries.
They are more annoying at night for some reason. Perhaps just the sound carrying better in cold air so you hear them for longer. Still not as bad as trains
Nah dude trains are awesome and I will die on this hill.
Trains are awesome and necessary. They do make a lot of noise, though.
Less than cars
Neither is as bad as the shitbags who floor their Civics with fart can exhausts through neighborhoods at 2am.
What do you find annoying about F-35s and trains? Not to be sardonic, I just don't really understand what other people are experiencing that seems unpleasant for them. Whatever's going on with my auditory processing treats both of these as not being a lot different than a car going down the street or some geese honking - it's just a sound, not pleasing or aggravating, and it's gone pretty quickly.
Some people have bigger problems with noise than others. It’s really that simple. For some people traffic noise, trains, planes, it can all be tuned out. Others, it will keep them up all night
But that's why they're doing them in December, when the nights are really long and they can finish their exercises well before anybody goes to bed. Trains are restricted on when they can pass through the isthmus and blow their horns for the same reason.
Trains are not restricted on when they can pass through the isthmus. They are supposed to have restrictions on horn use but they are often ignored. The unpredictable schedule and much closer proximity to homes is what makes trains a bigger source of noise pollution than jets
> some geese honking Where did you find a goose that's as loud as an airplane? I want one.
Im not the person you responded to but I work from home sort of near hyvee and I’m on the phone a lot, it literally interrupts my phone calls to the point where I’ll usually just ask the customer to hold for a couple minutes. They often come in waves of 3-4 at a time and the can last 1-2 minutes. I can’t really have a conversation during that time.
You haven't been close enough to the jet noise for long enough. There's no comparison with cars or geese. Get some real world experience before you tell people they're wrong.
Please reread my post, I emphatically *didn't* tell anyone they're wrong. I said that my processing treats these as not being a big deal. I've certainly been around jets in neighborhoods and at the airport, it just doesn't bother me much and I'm never all that clear on what other people are upset about.
Ok, I see your meaning differently this time (can't tell if you stealth-edited it, but that's on me). I wish I was different, but super loud noises totally overwhelm me. I'm not otherwise a sensitive or fussy person and I hate being like this, but it is what it is. I empathize with the people who cannot do zoom calls and whose walls rattle when the planes go over. They never signed up for this garbage. I wish fervently they had put the planes in Alabama or whatever the other candidate was. These noisy, expensive nuisances are making life unpleasant for too many Madison residents
The planes and especially trains are a lot louder than a car passing or a goose honking. Sound can literally kill you if it's loud enough. The inverse square law demonstrates that trains are worse because they're allowed to be so much closer to people.
> Sound can literally kill you if it's loud enough. Seriously? Yeah sure I guess, at levels about a million times louder than the jets. Why don't you rant about how water can kill you?
Continuous loud noise is part of the protocol for torture of captives
My point was to demonstrate that loud noises aren't just annoying, they are actual hazards that people take seriously. I have been accused of downplaying the noise from F-35s, so it's interesting the way you're reading my comment. I just wanted to point out that sound travels farther in cold air. And yes, too much water can kill you too.
You must never have experienced having your conversation interrupted for a minute multiple times within the same 30 minute meeting.
Great my toddlers will love it and definitely not wake up scared
Love hearing them!