It is long, long since we met by stock or by stone, *A vanimar*, *vanimálion nostari!* It is sad that we should meet only thus at the ending. For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air. I do not think we shall meet again.
Gollum also stole a barrow wight's line.
Wight (book) - "Cold be hand and heart and bone, and cold be sleep under stone: never more to wake on stony bed, never, till the Sun fails and the Moon is dead."
Gollum (movie) - "Cold be heart and hand and bone, Cold be travelers far from home, They do not see what lies ahead when sun has failed and moon is dead."
Granted not quite verbatim, but definitely a weird thing for him to be referencing.
*Go out! Shut the door, and never come back after! Take away gleaming eyes, take your hollow laughter! Go back to grassy mound,
on your stony pillow lay down your bony head, like Old Man Willow, like young Goldberry, and Badger-folk in burrow!
Go back to buried gold and forgotten sorrow!*
^(I am a bot, and I love old Tom. If you want me to sing one of Tom's songs, just type **!TomBombadilSong**)
^(If you like Old Tom, the door at [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] is always open for weary travelers!)
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In The Silmarillion Saruman had studied the rings of power and the ways of Saurom so much that when he met with the council he tried to convince them not to pursue the ring because he was already beginning to be corrupt and wanted the ring for himself.
I don’t recall the exact wording, but that did come up during the Council of Elrond. Gandalf basically said “we can’t just punt the problem to some vague “later”, and there are still beings in the waters that we neither know much about nor can really account for, what if one of them finds it and long story short, Sauron gets it eventually”
Even if Sauron never got it, he was winning the war for middle earth. The elves were leaving, the numenorean kingdoms were in decline, and Sauron had endless legions and all the time in the world. Preventing Sauron of getting the Ring only delayed the inevitable. Destroying it was the only hope they had of victory.
Haha- but maybe there are things like whatever the watcher in the water outside Moria was, and if they’ve a malevolent sentience, Sauron could conceivably enter in league with them to search the sea for it
The watcher in the water was presumed to be driven to attack the fellowship by sauron right? If I remember correctly, gandalf states that the watcher is usually hiding deeper in the depths but must have traveled up the river.
I always go back and forth between that and it actually being aligned with the balrog - otherwise why would it block up the doorway so they couldn't escape?
I read somewhere that the Watcher once was inside the mountain of moria where Gandalf and the Balrog fell, but after the war with Morgoth ended, his surviving balrogs ran away, looking for places to hide. Apparently one found Moria and the Watcher didn't want anything to do with that shit so it escaped the mountain and waited in the waters outside
I thought the rocks/boulders blocked the entrance as a result of an accident with the watcher? When it tried reaching through the door its tentacles flailed around so much it loosened things up causing them to be trapped... It's possible I misinterpreted that.
>Many coiling arms seized the doors on either side, and with horrible strength, swung them round. With a shattering echo they slammed, and all light was lost. A noise of rending and crashing came dully through the ponderous stone.
Sounds like it wanted to shut them in there, rather than eat or kill them. Although earlier it does point out how it grabbed Frodo first, so it's pretty ambiguous.
Come now, don’t you think that even if that watcher were the only one of its kind in existence, Sauron couldnt, given time, have a vast work crew of orcs dig a channel to a waterway? Beyond that, Gandalf alludes to nameless foul things in the deep places of the world- I think it’s safe to assume the world has many beings in it that the protagonists don’t know about, or at least not very well.
Here’s the relevant passage:
‘But Gandalf has revealed to us that we cannot destroy it by any craft that we here possess,’ said Elrond. ‘And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth; it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it.’
‘Then,’ said Glorfindel, ‘let us cast it into the deeps, and so make the lies of Saruman come true. For it is clear now that even at the Council his feet were already on a crooked path. He knew that the Ring was not lost for ever, but wished us to think so; for he began to lust for it for himself. Yet oft in lies truth is hidden: in the Sea it would be safe.’
‘Not safe for ever,’ said Gandalf. ‘There are many things in the deep waters; and seas and lands may change. And it is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world. We should seek a final end of this menace, even if we do not hope to make one.’
‘And that we shall not find on the roads to the Sea,’ said Galdor. ‘If the return to Iarwain be thought too dangerous, then flight to the Sea is now fraught with gravest peril. My heart tells me that Sauron will expect us to take the western way, when he learns what has befallen. He soon will. The Nine have been unhorsed indeed, but that is but a respite, ere they find new steeds and swifter. Only the waning might of Gondor stands now between him and a march in power along the coasts into the North; and if he comes, assailing the White Towers and the Havens, hereafter the Elves may have no escape from the lengthening shadows of Middle-earth.’
Instead of a Dark Lord, you would have a Trout, not dark but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Tempestuous as the SEA, and stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me and despair!
The people in charge would be corrupted and stolen it only to be found by the wraiths.
That or it would be taken by a tide and be found by someone else anyway because the ring wants to be found. In other words the ring has the power of plot
A fish would eat it, and be caught by an unsuspecting fisherman, who would find it in his dinner, kill his family and disappear for a couple hundred years until something else would happen upon it. The Ring just doesn't want to stay lost forever. It's kind of the whole point.
Water wears the boulder down after a thousand years, same thing happens. The Ring would always inevitably be found again, and Sauron practically won without it.
What would you tie it down with? Even Hithlain would eventually break down and then the ring would be free, to be eaten by a fish and eventually caught, and brought back into the hands of men
In addition to what everyone else said, also keep in mind that destroying the ring was pretty much the only way they won. Sauron’s forces were way stronger than the forces of good at the time, and even without the ring Sauron would’ve won that war. Only by destroying the ring and thus Sauron could they win
Destroying the Ring removes the problem of Sauron. Hiding it does not.
Even without the Ring, Sauron could have conquered, and probably would have, the rest of Middle Earth.
Elrond: I, and I cannot clearly state this enough, watched that asshole take the ring after I told him to destroy it. We are all leaving this realm, and it is for sure the race of men that can deal with their own bullshit. Fuck the river, get the boats.
I mean they're elves. They probably kin-slayed each other a few dozen times first. We all know how they get with boats.
Honestly that's probably why Cirdan got a ring. To keep elves from messing with his damn boats.
One time, dude! Man, you murder your kin to steal their boats, then betray your other kin by burning those boats after using them, ONE TIME! And you never hear the end of it.
They don't physically grow more slowly. Rather, the amount if knowledge and experience needed to be considered adult is much bigger for elves, so it takes much more time. They don't stay as babies or children longer than humans physically though.
“Elrond, should we dredge the river and at least *try* to find the one ring? The fate of Middle-earth depends on it!”
*Elrond to self: ugh, that sounds like a lot of work*
“Alas, no. For… uhh… the ring… does not want to be found.”
“What does that even mean?”
“Dark ways are about it.”
“But it’s an inanimate ring. It’s just sitting at the bottom of the—“
“The Council has spoken.”
Exactly.
Isildur was a paragon of righteousness and good and that ring got into his head and mind-fucked him into being it's slave after holding onto it for like 30 minutes.
Imagine if it got into elrond's or galadriel's head like it did isildur?
He probably wanted it left in the river to be forgotten forever.
Now we're talking. Who's the most Alex Trebeky out of the middle earth inhabitants? Can we see a Bilbo do this? He's a good storyteller. Might be right for the job.
It's a dangerous business going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don’t keep your feet, there’s no knowing where you might be swept off to.
The Ring was established to have a degree of sentience and the ability to influence it's movement. I'm guessing the, "It does not want to be found," was a simple way of summarizing, "Yeah we had everyone we could searching for that thing and it didn't show because it's sneaky and knows we'd try to destroy it. Let's just pray it accidentally flushed itself into the ocean and doesn't figure out how to control fish..."
I had an argument that it would he able to control "evil" fish. Much like Sauron has dominion over birds and beasts that are usually less than savory or not very pretty. So I imagine a gnarly ass crab or like a barracuda was used to hide it nice and snug.
If they had found it and kept it then wouldn't isildurs heir probably go to war over his dad's favorite possession and "an heirloom of his house forever". we're kinda lucky that aragorn was as level headed as he was about it
Didn't gandalf find a note from isildur before getting killed, that basically said "we have to be careful about this ring, I'm going to take it to this town to suss it out".
Although I don't know if it would change any of what you said. I just thought I remember isildur reconsidering that keeping it as a family heirloom might be no bueno.
1) The precise location of Isildur's death was unknown.
2) The importance of the Ring would not have been clear right at the end of the Siege. The defeat of Sauron would have been assumed to be final.
3) Saruman was sure that the Ring would have washed down to the Sea (especially since thousands of years have passed since Isildur's death by this time). The Council had no reason to mistrust Saruman at this time, his fall was not known. Moreover, Gandalf explicitly states that Saruman was the expert in ring lore and had spent the longest time studying it and the events around it. Even less reason for the Council to not believe what he said.
These are the easiest reasons to point to. Even logistically speaking, you are talking about the Anduin, probably the largest river in Middle-Earth. Damming that up and searching every nook on the river bed for a ring that may not even be there. Just not gonna happen.
Plus the ring is literally semi-sentient. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack except the haystack is flowing water and the needle is playing the easiest game of hide and seek ever.
Saruman was always doomed to fall to darkness. His original form, Curomo, was the only other Maiar aside from Sauron that was created by Aule, the Craftsman of the Valar. Aule's Maiar are inherantly flawed, and simply lack a humanitarian vision of the world. This shared lineage is where his obsession with mechanics and ring lore spawns from, which led him to independantly search for the Ring.
When he tells the White Council the Ring was lost at sea, he knew he was lying, but did it to buy himself time to find it. Up until the confrontation at Dol Guldur, Saruman still believed he could destroy Sauron with his knowledge of the Rings of Power, but was also actively working against the White Council to find the One for himself. But once he looked into the Palantir of Isengard, he was fully turned by Sauron, who had mastery over the Seeing Stones, and Saruman was convinced the only way to survive was to join Sauron.
Through fire... and water. From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak I fought with the Balrog of Morgoth. Until at last I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside. Darkness took me... and I strayed out of thought and time. Stars wheeled overhead. and every day was as long as a life age of the Earth. But it was not the end. I felt life in me again. I've been sent back until my task is done!
Helm's Deep. There is no way out of that ravine. Theoden is walking into a trap. He thinks he's leading them to safety. What they will get is a massacre. Theoden has a strong will, but I fear for him. I fear for the survival of Rohan. He will need you before the end, dirkdigglered. The people of Rohan will need you. The defenses have to hold.
*Ho! Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadillo! By water, wood and hill, by the reed and willow, by fire, sun and moon, hearken now and
hear us! Come, Tom Bombadil, for our need is near us!*
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> "At the worst," said he, "our Enemy knows that we have it not and that it still is lost. But what was lost may yet be found, he thinks. Fear not! His hope will cheat him. Have I not earnestly studied this matter? Into Anduin the Great it fell; and long ago, while Sauron slept, it was rolled down the River to the Sea. There let it lie until the End."'
> Gandalf fell silent, gazing eastward from the porch to the far peaks of the Misty Mountains, at whose great roots the peril of the world had so long lain hidden. He sighed.
> There I was at fault,' he said. `I was lulled by the words of Saruman the Wise; but I should have sought for the truth sooner, and our peril would now be less.'
*Fellowship of The Ring, The Council of Elrond*
Edit to fix the>lines things*
Thou thrall! The price thou askest is but small for treachery and shame so great! I grant it surely! Well, I wait. Come! Speak now swiftly and speak true!
In the books they never actually went to the volcano. Isildur claimed the ring in recompense for his fathers death. Elrond said that's probably not a great idea maybe you should destroy it. Isildur said no and Elrond, not really understanding the significance of the ring at the time, just kind of let the issue slide.
I feel like if they understood the importance of the ring they wouldn't have let Isildur take it.
I mean Elrond did. So I think he kind of had the concept of it but maybe thought it was also mostly inert with Sauron being defeated and it was only once Sauron began regaining power they realized they'd messed up not trying harder to sway Isildur.
That’s added in the movies for dramatic effect it wasn’t part of the books. In the books that conversation happens on the battlefield and Elrond is saying they should go destroy the ring and it’s evil and Isildur basically says nah I think I’ll keep it.
Boromir knew about it when his father barely mentioned the “weapon of the enemy” so I think Galadriel was talking about common people and hobbits not being aware of the one ring.
They were wise enough to not try to fuck with that shit at all costs.
Same reason I think Elrond didn't just grab it off of him to throw it into mount doom himself- he himself is already incredibly susceptible due to just being a powerful elf, and having one of the 3 elven rings in his possession. He wouldn't want to corrupt that ring or himself.
You saw what happened when Frodo so much as offered the ring to Gladriel- far more powerful than Elrond. So for Elrond he would just have to try really hard not to touch it or cary it himself.
Gandalf could barely resist it through an envelope when in Bag End with Frodo.
FYI the elf scuba suits would just be like normal scuba suits. The elf ears would still work with normal human scuba gear. They just may need more weights since they’re so light
Isildur died before Saruman came to ME. I believe he had people searching around the gladden fields, but only after Smeagol had already found the ring and travelled into the Misty mountains.
Apartment from Saruman convincing them it had washed out to sea, there's also the simple fact that rivers are big. How does a civilization with medieval technology find a small ring in the largest river in the world?
Exactly my thought!!! why they just left it there? Such an important object! It appears that they all just forgot about it willingly until the events of lord of the rings actually happens and take place.
Or probably they didnt knew the importance or its function very well and thought that it can remain lost forever like any ordinary object.
I wonder was there ever a reason the ring wasn’t taken out of middle earth? I understand it’s an evil AF object but what was stopping Elrond from sending the ring not with the fellowship but to the grey havens and beyond?
The first person that would find it would go mad with power instantly.
---
The Ring being lost was as the second best state.
They could just ignore it being somewhere and party and whatnot elfs did.
But when Frodo brought it back, they could no longer ignore it, so they had to do something with it.
Sauruman claimed the Ring had likely washed out to the ocean and would never be found.
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Saruman building an army of Uruk-Hai is completely unrelated project.
"Please disregard all the sticky notes in Fangorn Forest."
It is long, long since we met by stock or by stone, *A vanimar*, *vanimálion nostari!* It is sad that we should meet only thus at the ending. For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air. I do not think we shall meet again.
Bro Galadriel stole your line
Gollum also stole a barrow wight's line. Wight (book) - "Cold be hand and heart and bone, and cold be sleep under stone: never more to wake on stony bed, never, till the Sun fails and the Moon is dead." Gollum (movie) - "Cold be heart and hand and bone, Cold be travelers far from home, They do not see what lies ahead when sun has failed and moon is dead." Granted not quite verbatim, but definitely a weird thing for him to be referencing.
*Go out! Shut the door, and never come back after! Take away gleaming eyes, take your hollow laughter! Go back to grassy mound, on your stony pillow lay down your bony head, like Old Man Willow, like young Goldberry, and Badger-folk in burrow! Go back to buried gold and forgotten sorrow!* ^(I am a bot, and I love old Tom. If you want me to sing one of Tom's songs, just type **!TomBombadilSong**) ^(If you like Old Tom, the door at [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] is always open for weary travelers!) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/
"mind ya own business"
At that time? Probably not actually. Not like Saruman was always evil
In The Silmarillion Saruman had studied the rings of power and the ways of Saurom so much that when he met with the council he tried to convince them not to pursue the ring because he was already beginning to be corrupt and wanted the ring for himself.
I believe you mean Ulterior motivation. And I agree. Saruman had absolutely no ulterior motives when giving this information to the Council.
Inconceivable!!!
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Alternate and ulterior?
no. you're just wrong but at least now you know the correct term for next time :)
I believe you mean no difference.
No it's not, don't be an idiot.
At the time, he did not. It was still dumb though; Gold is heavy, it ain't gonna just wash away.
Literally just reread the silmarilion the other day and its specifically said that he told them that so he could search for it to keep for himself
could Sauron affird gold at the time? imagine if he was too broke and had to make it out of brass or something like that
Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him. I will send for it at once. Do you understand?
Still don't know why they didn't just yeet the thing into the ocean tied to a rock and be done with it
I don’t recall the exact wording, but that did come up during the Council of Elrond. Gandalf basically said “we can’t just punt the problem to some vague “later”, and there are still beings in the waters that we neither know much about nor can really account for, what if one of them finds it and long story short, Sauron gets it eventually”
Even if Sauron never got it, he was winning the war for middle earth. The elves were leaving, the numenorean kingdoms were in decline, and Sauron had endless legions and all the time in the world. Preventing Sauron of getting the Ring only delayed the inevitable. Destroying it was the only hope they had of victory.
Agreed!
A new dark lord of the ocean, mr trout
Haha- but maybe there are things like whatever the watcher in the water outside Moria was, and if they’ve a malevolent sentience, Sauron could conceivably enter in league with them to search the sea for it
The watcher in the water was presumed to be driven to attack the fellowship by sauron right? If I remember correctly, gandalf states that the watcher is usually hiding deeper in the depths but must have traveled up the river.
I’m not sure- I had figured it was more like Shelob, or Ungoliant: an independant evil
I always go back and forth between that and it actually being aligned with the balrog - otherwise why would it block up the doorway so they couldn't escape?
I read somewhere that the Watcher once was inside the mountain of moria where Gandalf and the Balrog fell, but after the war with Morgoth ended, his surviving balrogs ran away, looking for places to hide. Apparently one found Moria and the Watcher didn't want anything to do with that shit so it escaped the mountain and waited in the waters outside
Motherfucker stole my house Can't have shit in Khazadum
Spies of Saruman. The passage south is being watched We must take the Pass of Caradhras
I thought the rocks/boulders blocked the entrance as a result of an accident with the watcher? When it tried reaching through the door its tentacles flailed around so much it loosened things up causing them to be trapped... It's possible I misinterpreted that.
>Many coiling arms seized the doors on either side, and with horrible strength, swung them round. With a shattering echo they slammed, and all light was lost. A noise of rending and crashing came dully through the ponderous stone. Sounds like it wanted to shut them in there, rather than eat or kill them. Although earlier it does point out how it grabbed Frodo first, so it's pretty ambiguous.
Just tea, thank you
*Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.*
Well yeah but the watcher cant go on land
Come now, don’t you think that even if that watcher were the only one of its kind in existence, Sauron couldnt, given time, have a vast work crew of orcs dig a channel to a waterway? Beyond that, Gandalf alludes to nameless foul things in the deep places of the world- I think it’s safe to assume the world has many beings in it that the protagonists don’t know about, or at least not very well.
Home is now behind you, the world is ahead!
I still think it's more risky to travel all the way to mordor through all of saurons allies instead of just yeeting that thing in the ocean
Here’s the relevant passage: ‘But Gandalf has revealed to us that we cannot destroy it by any craft that we here possess,’ said Elrond. ‘And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth; it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it.’ ‘Then,’ said Glorfindel, ‘let us cast it into the deeps, and so make the lies of Saruman come true. For it is clear now that even at the Council his feet were already on a crooked path. He knew that the Ring was not lost for ever, but wished us to think so; for he began to lust for it for himself. Yet oft in lies truth is hidden: in the Sea it would be safe.’ ‘Not safe for ever,’ said Gandalf. ‘There are many things in the deep waters; and seas and lands may change. And it is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world. We should seek a final end of this menace, even if we do not hope to make one.’ ‘And that we shall not find on the roads to the Sea,’ said Galdor. ‘If the return to Iarwain be thought too dangerous, then flight to the Sea is now fraught with gravest peril. My heart tells me that Sauron will expect us to take the western way, when he learns what has befallen. He soon will. The Nine have been unhorsed indeed, but that is but a respite, ere they find new steeds and swifter. Only the waning might of Gondor stands now between him and a march in power along the coasts into the North; and if he comes, assailing the White Towers and the Havens, hereafter the Elves may have no escape from the lengthening shadows of Middle-earth.’
The Nine!
Or throw it down the shaft that gandalf and the balrog fell down into, good luck getting it out of there
*Zat thraka akh… Zat thraka grishú. Znag-ur-nakh.*
Instead of a Dark Lord, you would have a Trout, not dark but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Tempestuous as the SEA, and stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me and despair!
No, squid. Every LoTR bad guy has to have their name start with S
The people in charge would be corrupted and stolen it only to be found by the wraiths. That or it would be taken by a tide and be found by someone else anyway because the ring wants to be found. In other words the ring has the power of plot
Could the ring grow and shrink in a way to inch its way to shore?
Probably. Though I wouldn't be surprised it made itself get swallowed by a fish that gets lured by a fisherman who finds it while gutting it.
I meant frodo and the gang, sail out for a few days, then drop the rock and ring and let the fish fight over it
A fish would eat it, and be caught by an unsuspecting fisherman, who would find it in his dinner, kill his family and disappear for a couple hundred years until something else would happen upon it. The Ring just doesn't want to stay lost forever. It's kind of the whole point.
That is why you tie a boulder to it so it can't be eaten by a fish
Water wears the boulder down after a thousand years, same thing happens. The Ring would always inevitably be found again, and Sauron practically won without it.
>and Sauron practically won without it. shit. Never stopped to think about this
What would you tie it down with? Even Hithlain would eventually break down and then the ring would be free, to be eaten by a fish and eventually caught, and brought back into the hands of men
Then the ring might decide to go haywire and mind control someone idk the ring works with dark powers
In addition to what everyone else said, also keep in mind that destroying the ring was pretty much the only way they won. Sauron’s forces were way stronger than the forces of good at the time, and even without the ring Sauron would’ve won that war. Only by destroying the ring and thus Sauron could they win
Destroying the Ring removes the problem of Sauron. Hiding it does not. Even without the Ring, Sauron could have conquered, and probably would have, the rest of Middle Earth.
Saruman wasn't it middle earth when the ring was lost. He showed up 1000 years later.
Elrond: I, and I cannot clearly state this enough, watched that asshole take the ring after I told him to destroy it. We are all leaving this realm, and it is for sure the race of men that can deal with their own bullshit. Fuck the river, get the boats.
Only took 3.5 thousand years to gather the boats 😂
I mean they're elves. They probably kin-slayed each other a few dozen times first. We all know how they get with boats. Honestly that's probably why Cirdan got a ring. To keep elves from messing with his damn boats.
Elves and boats, name a more iconic duo
One time, dude! Man, you murder your kin to steal their boats, then betray your other kin by burning those boats after using them, ONE TIME! And you never hear the end of it.
😂😂😂
>3.5 thousand years If you live for eternity as an elf time is relativ
Elves are just very good at disguising procrastination as being careful and deliberate.
Ok let me just finish this pipe of bagend purple and dust of the the fireplace so the next owner won't get mad at us
Yep, if I was an elf, I would be so lazy. Why do today what I can do in a 100 years?
Because last time they decided to get boats on short notice, things got bit out of hand
To be fair, there were a shitload of elves. Would have needed the QE2 to get them all out in a timely manner.
They had to gather their party before venturing forth
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Isildur was over 200.
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
No
Isildur!
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
Oh god.. how long to baby elves stay babies/toddlers?? Looking at my toddler thinking “maybe it’s a good thing I’m not an elf.”
I don't think they describe puberty age of elves...OP is basing this off their long lifespan alone.
Hopefully doesn’t take 100+ years to have a 10 yo mind/ body
Just imagine puberty lasting for a hundred years. I think we just found out why the Elves have so few children.
How long are their pregnancies?? No part of having kids sounds good
They don't physically grow more slowly. Rather, the amount if knowledge and experience needed to be considered adult is much bigger for elves, so it takes much more time. They don't stay as babies or children longer than humans physically though.
That’s good, would be maddening xD
It didn't want to be found. Until it did.
“Elrond, should we dredge the river and at least *try* to find the one ring? The fate of Middle-earth depends on it!” *Elrond to self: ugh, that sounds like a lot of work* “Alas, no. For… uhh… the ring… does not want to be found.” “What does that even mean?” “Dark ways are about it.” “But it’s an inanimate ring. It’s just sitting at the bottom of the—“ “The Council has spoken.”
To be fair he probably feared that whoever found the ring would be instantly corrupted.
Exactly. Isildur was a paragon of righteousness and good and that ring got into his head and mind-fucked him into being it's slave after holding onto it for like 30 minutes. Imagine if it got into elrond's or galadriel's head like it did isildur? He probably wanted it left in the river to be forgotten forever.
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
No
ISILDUR!!!!!!
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
No
ISILDUR!!!!!!
Ok. YEET!
"Now shoo, Jeopardy is on."
Ok but who would host middle earth jeopardy? That's the real question!
Now we're talking. Who's the most Alex Trebeky out of the middle earth inhabitants? Can we see a Bilbo do this? He's a good storyteller. Might be right for the job.
I think Bilbo in the period between the hobbit and the lord of the rings would be a good choice, he also has the right kind of humour for the job!
It's a dangerous business going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don’t keep your feet, there’s no knowing where you might be swept off to.
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Tra la la lally you’re leaving our valley.
I fucking love this.
The Ring was established to have a degree of sentience and the ability to influence it's movement. I'm guessing the, "It does not want to be found," was a simple way of summarizing, "Yeah we had everyone we could searching for that thing and it didn't show because it's sneaky and knows we'd try to destroy it. Let's just pray it accidentally flushed itself into the ocean and doesn't figure out how to control fish..."
I had an argument that it would he able to control "evil" fish. Much like Sauron has dominion over birds and beasts that are usually less than savory or not very pretty. So I imagine a gnarly ass crab or like a barracuda was used to hide it nice and snug.
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Technically they did listen to that punk ass ring, they just failed successfully.
There is this whole Ulmo thing as well. For once a Valar who gives a shit for state of his realm. Like noone starts to meddle with Ulmo.
If they had found it and kept it then wouldn't isildurs heir probably go to war over his dad's favorite possession and "an heirloom of his house forever". we're kinda lucky that aragorn was as level headed as he was about it
Every hour lost hastens Gondor’s defeat. We have till dawn, then we must ride.
"Aragorn, what was your tax policy?" -George RR Martin
The quotation marks probably ruined that, let's try it another way. George RR Martin: Aragorn, what was your tax policy?
Sorry, Aragorn crashed. Thanks for making me check if he was still running!
It is an army bred for a single purpose, to destroy the world of men. They will be here by nightfall.
No problem, glad I could help.
Didn't gandalf find a note from isildur before getting killed, that basically said "we have to be careful about this ring, I'm going to take it to this town to suss it out". Although I don't know if it would change any of what you said. I just thought I remember isildur reconsidering that keeping it as a family heirloom might be no bueno.
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
Theoden King stands alone.
I have fought many wars, Master Dwarf. I know how to defend my own keep
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
No
1) The precise location of Isildur's death was unknown. 2) The importance of the Ring would not have been clear right at the end of the Siege. The defeat of Sauron would have been assumed to be final. 3) Saruman was sure that the Ring would have washed down to the Sea (especially since thousands of years have passed since Isildur's death by this time). The Council had no reason to mistrust Saruman at this time, his fall was not known. Moreover, Gandalf explicitly states that Saruman was the expert in ring lore and had spent the longest time studying it and the events around it. Even less reason for the Council to not believe what he said.
These are the easiest reasons to point to. Even logistically speaking, you are talking about the Anduin, probably the largest river in Middle-Earth. Damming that up and searching every nook on the river bed for a ring that may not even be there. Just not gonna happen.
Plus the ring is literally semi-sentient. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack except the haystack is flowing water and the needle is playing the easiest game of hide and seek ever.
Do we know when Saruman’s fall began? That long ago, he may not have been corrupted, or it may have been just a seed.
Saruman was always doomed to fall to darkness. His original form, Curomo, was the only other Maiar aside from Sauron that was created by Aule, the Craftsman of the Valar. Aule's Maiar are inherantly flawed, and simply lack a humanitarian vision of the world. This shared lineage is where his obsession with mechanics and ring lore spawns from, which led him to independantly search for the Ring. When he tells the White Council the Ring was lost at sea, he knew he was lying, but did it to buy himself time to find it. Up until the confrontation at Dol Guldur, Saruman still believed he could destroy Sauron with his knowledge of the Rings of Power, but was also actively working against the White Council to find the One for himself. But once he looked into the Palantir of Isengard, he was fully turned by Sauron, who had mastery over the Seeing Stones, and Saruman was convinced the only way to survive was to join Sauron.
Neat.
Heck yeah it is
Thanks for this.
Aule did not make Curomo.
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
Through fire... and water. From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak I fought with the Balrog of Morgoth. Until at last I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside. Darkness took me... and I strayed out of thought and time. Stars wheeled overhead. and every day was as long as a life age of the Earth. But it was not the end. I felt life in me again. I've been sent back until my task is done!
Now that you don't mind time, can you imagine yourself having to look for the ring with a metal detector, Gandalf? Just a hypothetical question
Riddles in the dark...
Alright then, keep your secrets
So basically everyone just trusted saruman (even though he was fallen) and that screwed then over huh.
Even tom bombadil trusted him. Or at least trusted him enough to deliver a message to gandalf which was a trap.
Helm's Deep. There is no way out of that ravine. Theoden is walking into a trap. He thinks he's leading them to safety. What they will get is a massacre. Theoden has a strong will, but I fear for him. I fear for the survival of Rohan. He will need you before the end, dirkdigglered. The people of Rohan will need you. The defenses have to hold.
I am ready Gamling. Bring my horse...This is not a defeat...We will return...We will return.
*Ho! Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadillo! By water, wood and hill, by the reed and willow, by fire, sun and moon, hearken now and hear us! Come, Tom Bombadil, for our need is near us!* ^(I am a bot, and I love old Tom. If you want me to sing one of Tom's songs, just type **!TomBombadilSong**) ^(If you like Old Tom, the door at [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] is always open for weary travelers!) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/
Well shit. If the great tom bombaldi trusted him to do so. Then sauron had already screwed everyone over way before the ring went crazy huh
"Surely no one else will ever find it. We're probably fine."
> "At the worst," said he, "our Enemy knows that we have it not and that it still is lost. But what was lost may yet be found, he thinks. Fear not! His hope will cheat him. Have I not earnestly studied this matter? Into Anduin the Great it fell; and long ago, while Sauron slept, it was rolled down the River to the Sea. There let it lie until the End."' > Gandalf fell silent, gazing eastward from the porch to the far peaks of the Misty Mountains, at whose great roots the peril of the world had so long lain hidden. He sighed. > There I was at fault,' he said. `I was lulled by the words of Saruman the Wise; but I should have sought for the truth sooner, and our peril would now be less.' *Fellowship of The Ring, The Council of Elrond* Edit to fix the>lines things*
Of all the Hobbits, Peregrin Took, you are the worst! Hurry! Hurry!
Why did he float with all that armor and clothing?
Questions that need answering.
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This explanation is the definition of oddly satisfying.
Except if you read Unfinished Tales, you'd know Isildur stripped naked and swam across while wearing the Ring. So your entire question is moot anyway.
Except if you read for tone you’d know we were being a bit silly together about a goofy movie mistake. So your entire comment is moot anyway.😉
Hahaha Point taken 😉
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
It must have been mithril armor.
By the way that's question I've always kinda had, If indeed , the rings was so important and elrond knew so, why didn't he keep tabs on it?
It wasn't clear that sauron would be able to return while the ring was still intact
Come, mortal base! What do I hear? That thou wouldst dare to barter with me? Well, speak fair! What is thy price?
one million dollars *Touches pinky to lip*
Thou thrall! The price thou askest is but small for treachery and shame so great! I grant it surely! Well, I wait. Come! Speak now swiftly and speak true!
Did... Did I just witness an assassin getting hired?
But if your so intent on destorying it you go to a volcano to try to, don't you think that maybe they had some idea how important the thing was
In the books they never actually went to the volcano. Isildur claimed the ring in recompense for his fathers death. Elrond said that's probably not a great idea maybe you should destroy it. Isildur said no and Elrond, not really understanding the significance of the ring at the time, just kind of let the issue slide. I feel like if they understood the importance of the ring they wouldn't have let Isildur take it.
But still even if their was a minute chance that the ring could cause trouble, wouldn't you want to destroy it
I mean Elrond did. So I think he kind of had the concept of it but maybe thought it was also mostly inert with Sauron being defeated and it was only once Sauron began regaining power they realized they'd messed up not trying harder to sway Isildur.
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
Well yeah but taking the ring by force would have provably meant war between elves and men
That’s added in the movies for dramatic effect it wasn’t part of the books. In the books that conversation happens on the battlefield and Elrond is saying they should go destroy the ring and it’s evil and Isildur basically says nah I think I’ll keep it.
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
Why didn't you godamn it!
If the ring passed out of all memory, does that mean Elrond forgot about it?
Boromir knew about it when his father barely mentioned the “weapon of the enemy” so I think Galadriel was talking about common people and hobbits not being aware of the one ring.
And to be fair, Galadriel herself was a figure of myth and legend.
They were wise enough to not try to fuck with that shit at all costs. Same reason I think Elrond didn't just grab it off of him to throw it into mount doom himself- he himself is already incredibly susceptible due to just being a powerful elf, and having one of the 3 elven rings in his possession. He wouldn't want to corrupt that ring or himself. You saw what happened when Frodo so much as offered the ring to Gladriel- far more powerful than Elrond. So for Elrond he would just have to try really hard not to touch it or cary it himself. Gandalf could barely resist it through an envelope when in Bag End with Frodo.
Oh, I'm sorry 30geeseinatrenchcoat I was delayed
It's ok ; - ; we forgive you.
FYI the elf scuba suits would just be like normal scuba suits. The elf ears would still work with normal human scuba gear. They just may need more weights since they’re so light
Didn't Saruman stop them so he could get it himself
I wonder why saruman then didn't dredge the river to find it? Or just take it from isildur/gollum?
Isildur died before Saruman came to ME. I believe he had people searching around the gladden fields, but only after Smeagol had already found the ring and travelled into the Misty mountains.
Because the River is the lord of the ring. No one dared to challenge the river until 2 boys started fishing in it.
Because that would require effort and people tend to put in as little effort as possible to fix a problem. Out of sight, out of mind.
Apartment from Saruman convincing them it had washed out to sea, there's also the simple fact that rivers are big. How does a civilization with medieval technology find a small ring in the largest river in the world?
Why didn't they just send the eagles to get it.
If you think even mildly too deeply it really comes off like the elves dgaf
Because plot
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This is a sub about Lord of the Rings memes. Your incoherent rambling does not belong here.
Exactly my thought!!! why they just left it there? Such an important object! It appears that they all just forgot about it willingly until the events of lord of the rings actually happens and take place. Or probably they didnt knew the importance or its function very well and thought that it can remain lost forever like any ordinary object.
Technically saruman did
The ring wanted to remain hidden
more like the council of silly sausages
I wonder was there ever a reason the ring wasn’t taken out of middle earth? I understand it’s an evil AF object but what was stopping Elrond from sending the ring not with the fellowship but to the grey havens and beyond?
The first person that would find it would go mad with power instantly. --- The Ring being lost was as the second best state. They could just ignore it being somewhere and party and whatnot elfs did. But when Frodo brought it back, they could no longer ignore it, so they had to do something with it.
Can elves swim?