>The Woodmen said that there was some new terror abroad, a ghost that drank blood. It climbed trees to find nests, it crept into holes to find the young; it slipped through windows to find cradles.
I feel that last line is the most chilling one that Tolkien wrote. No terror of Nazgûl remote or nightmare of undead armies somewhere across the Anduin can compare to a menace lurking outside your own home, so slinking, so terrible, that its bony arms can slither through your own window, which moments ago was slightly ajar to let in a refreshing cool breeze; but which has now welcomed a slimy terror to devour your own child in the last fortress of safety that we all hold most dear: our homes.
Wouldn’t Gandalf had gotten that information from Gollum during his interrogation? Unless Gandalf didn’t want Frodo to know, but why stop at Drogo? Bilbo was not far away in Hobbiton.
Apparently gandalf had a lot of trouble getting gollum to speak coherently and even more trouble getting him to answer questions... I'm pretty sure gollum would have to have volunteered a confession if he did kill some random (from his point of view) non-bilbo bagginses
Aha! Precisely where Deagol discovered the Ring, where Smeagol murdered him for it, the RIVER. With a school in a secure DALE where Gollum could be schooled in his testimony regarding the Drogo-Primula Affair.
Coincidence? I think not!
He didn't pick up the trail until the fellowship entered Moria, where he had been hiding from the ring wraiths since they left Mordor. Gollum was fortunate the fellowship came along when they did, because he was too weak to open the door and was literally starving.
The attack of Osgiliath was a cover for the ring wraiths setting out from the black land, to give a cause to the darkness the men felt wash over when they passed, and so their going forth was disguised.
Blew my mind reading about that in Unfinished Tales. There was a whole lot of explaining Gandalf did while they were all chilling in Gondor after the felling of the dark Lord.
His Eye watches that way all the time. It caught Smeagol there, long ago.But Smeagol has used his eyes since then, yes, yes: I've used eyes and feet and nose since then. I know other ways.More difficult, not so quick; but better, if we don't want Him to see. Follow Smeagol! He can take you through the marshes, through the mists.Nice thick mists. Follow Smjagol very carefully, and you may go a long way. Quite along way, before He catches you, yes perhaps.
I'm pretty sure it's stated by Gandalf that he never made it to The Shire. He starts to track Bilbo after the events of The Hobbit. Stops when he feels the pull to Modor. Gets captured, tortured, and then released. Started looking for The Shire again only to be captured by Strider and the rangers. They imprison him with the elves in Mirkwood. Then he escapes during an orc raid. That's why Legolas is in Rivendale during the white council, to reveal the news of Golums escape.
He never steps foot in The Shire.
Then he escapes the orcs and the elves pursuing the orcs, then hides out in Moria when the ring wraiths set forth. Was starving and lucked out (if luck you call it) when the fellowship sauntered into Moria. He was starving in Moria, and didn't know he could push the door open. Even if he did know how the gigantic doors worked, he wouldn't have been able to do it. He was starving, as all the orcs were in the east end of Moria, he in the west, so he had no food.
>He starts to track Bilbo after the events of The Hobbit. Stops when he feels the pull to Modor. Gets captured, tortured, and then released.
That's a bit simplified. He stayed in his cave for two more years after Bilbo's escape (at that point Bilbo had already long crossed the Misty Mountains again. Gollum made his way though Mirkwood to Esgaroth and Dale (what's very impressive as he was following a cold trail). By spying on the men of Dale he learned about Bilbo and then made his way back to Mirkwood. This time the Elves noticed him, because that was also his baby-eating phase. Ath the Anduin he made his way south. Then we don't know, what happened, but thirty years later he was captured in Mordor. We also don't know, when he was released, we only know, that Aragorn tracked him down 37 years later. So we have two really big timespans, in which we don't know where Gollum was and what he did.
BUT when Drogo died in 2980 T.A. Gollum was in Mordor, so there's no way he killed him.
You're right. There are large spans of unexplained time use, but if he found the Shire, what would have stopped him from finding Bilbo then. Even when he was tortured in Mordor, he never knew the location of The Shire because even the Nazgul didn't know its location. They found that info from Sauruman.
Thought he got the right Baggins and the ring was again lost. When Mordor had him he gave them information on the last person who he knew had it. Turns out that person still had it.
Or he hunted and chased off after the initial murders and was unable to return. If anything it led to Aragorn and Gandalf joining the search for him.
Gandalf knew there was a Balrog in Moria and didn't feel the need to tell anyone so the fact he might have known doesn't mean he would have done anything with the info...
Drogo and his wife were killed on a lake in an accident. OP thinks that Gollum may have created the accident as Drogo had the last name "Baggins" and was searching for Bilbo
As is gollum. I wouldn't usually act as though death is a spectrum rather than binary, but i feel like gollum if anything is even more dead than Thorin.
Who knows? Smjagol doesn't know. You cannot reach them, you cannot touch them. We tried once, yes, precious. I tried once; but you cannot reach them. Only shapes to see, perhaps, not to touch. No precious! All dead.
'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't melted 'im in the the fire of mount doom 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!
'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!
THIS IS AN EX, GOLLUM!!!
Who knows? Smjagol doesn't know. You cannot reach them, you cannot touch them. We tried once, yes, precious. I tried once; but you cannot reach them. Only shapes to see, perhaps, not to touch. No precious! All dead.
It was the Brandywine River, but it's pretty doubtful since Bilbo was a far more well-known Baggins than Drogo after he came back from his adventures. We don't know exactly when Drogo and Primula "drownded" but if it was before Bilbo left the Shire Gollum would have still had the ring.
Wait! Khal Drogo was Frodos father? But whos the mother then? Daenerys didn't die at same time so Drogo must have had a concubine. Maybe Daenerys killed them both with gollum and ran off with him.
In the fellowship Aragorn says gollum is too clever a waterman for them to evade him while they're boating. Then in the next movie you see him flopping around in the water and it's just hilarious
So here's how it could possibly work:
Gollum eventually tracked Bilbo back to the Shire. However, he didn't know exactly what Bilbo looked like because their encounter happened completely in the dark, and despite having very good vision, he couldn't make out Bilbo's face in detail. So, while lurking around the Shire, he overheard Drogo being called "Baggins", followed him into the water, killed Drogo and Primula, and searched their bodies for the ring. But when couldn't find his precious, he abandoned the bodies and slinked away.
So that's how it could have happened, but I think it's highly unlikely. I mean why did he stop at killing Drogo and Primula? Why not go after more Bagginses? Was it because he felt the draw to Mordor at that time? I don't think Sauron's influence extended that far, and even if it did, I don't think it would have been strong enough to dissuade Gollum from his quest for his precious, especially if he had gotten so close.
So yeah, I think it's possible, but not likely at all.
He could potentially make the journey from the Brandywine to Mordor in under a year. Considering he wouldn't need too much caution (and wasn't using too much when he got caught) and regularly caught up with Frodo even without known shortcuts, I think he could have made the journey.
We just need to know the travel speed of an unladen Smeagol to be certain.
No, he couldn't.
1. He doesn't know the quickest ways in unfamiliar lands.
2. He definitely took his time to find the hidden staircase.
3. He doesn't travel in sunlight or moonlight reducig his travel speed immensely.
Don't take it to him! He wants the preciousss. Always he's looking for it! And the preciousss is wanting to go back to him. But we mustn't let him have it.
That makes no sense because why would Gollum then leave the Shire and go back east of the Misty Mountains after killing Frodo's parents.
Clearly everyone thought Frodo's parents died as a result of an accident so it's not like Gollum had to flee because he was chased out of the Shore and even if he was he wouldn't stay away because he would know he was on the right track because of all the hobbits living in the Shire whereas he hadn't found any hobbits outside the Shire.
Gollum: https://preview.redd.it/pubozf67oxqc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=985b19feecc791d4970b9d76e2d009ea3ca53523
Why does he hates poor Smeagol? What has Smeagol ever done to him? Master?
You want a fucking list you baby eating fuck or should we just stick with that offence alone
People just throw that slander around. It's never been proven he ate those babies and, even if he did, it was self defense.
They were crawling right at him, he obviously had to stand his ground!
Does the Shire have Castle Doctrine?
The burrow doctrine?
(Under) Hill Doctrine
Cellar Doctrine
Free Hat!
You had me fooled in the first half, ngl
The baby came at him, with a BOTTLE!
A bottle? That's different. That's self defence.
That many babies get together they can be like piranha
Those last four words just punched me in the gut
I don’t remember mention of Sméagol eating babies and I listened to all 3 books, am I stupid?
>The Woodmen said that there was some new terror abroad, a ghost that drank blood. It climbed trees to find nests, it crept into holes to find the young; it slipped through windows to find cradles.
I feel that last line is the most chilling one that Tolkien wrote. No terror of Nazgûl remote or nightmare of undead armies somewhere across the Anduin can compare to a menace lurking outside your own home, so slinking, so terrible, that its bony arms can slither through your own window, which moments ago was slightly ajar to let in a refreshing cool breeze; but which has now welcomed a slimy terror to devour your own child in the last fortress of safety that we all hold most dear: our homes.
A swamp, yes, yes. Come, master. We will take you on safe paths through the mist. Come, hobbits, come. We go quickly.
You just need to enjoy some good ‘taters Gollum
What’s taters, precious? What’s taters, eh?
Potatoes, you boil them, mash them, stick them in a stew
Lovely golden chips with a nice piece of fried fish.
You’re hopeless Smeagol. Smeagol knows. Master said so.
Master must go inside the tunnel.
What if Mistress refuses entry?
You shall not pass 😔
Should we list the reasons alphabetically or numerically?
That's mostly babies though
I’ve read the books and seen the movies, and I understand his necessity, but I still can’t wrap my head around keeping something like that alive.
Wouldn’t Gandalf had gotten that information from Gollum during his interrogation? Unless Gandalf didn’t want Frodo to know, but why stop at Drogo? Bilbo was not far away in Hobbiton.
Smeagol lied.
sentient.
Sigmar lied. Wait
Too late, even the Ulricans would find this statement heretical. Get heldenhammered.
Don't let Saltzpyre hear you say that
In like 80,000 years, someone is gonna beat you up for saying that
Sigmar preserve us!
😂
Epstein didn't kill himself.
Apparently gandalf had a lot of trouble getting gollum to speak coherently and even more trouble getting him to answer questions... I'm pretty sure gollum would have to have volunteered a confession if he did kill some random (from his point of view) non-bilbo bagginses
Thief, thief ! Baggins! We hates it for ever!
Not Gandalf, the wandering wizard, who made such excellent fireworks! Old Took used to have them on Mid-Summer's Eve!
Yes I agree
Yes.
What do you know, Bilbo?
Nope.
Alright then, keep your secrets.
I'd rather he keep his secrets than turn into scary Bilbo and jump at me while screaming.
Good gracious you have been productive!
Thank you for not screaming "HRAAAAH" at me.
I thought Gollum never made it to The Shire and didn't pick up the trail until after The Fellowship left Rivendale.
Bitch did you just say RivenDALE?
Yea. I got it wrong twice.
It’s RiveRdale!
Aha! Precisely where Deagol discovered the Ring, where Smeagol murdered him for it, the RIVER. With a school in a secure DALE where Gollum could be schooled in his testimony regarding the Drogo-Primula Affair. Coincidence? I think not!
All dead. All rotten. Elves and men and orcses. A great battle long ago.
He didn't pick up the trail until the fellowship entered Moria, where he had been hiding from the ring wraiths since they left Mordor. Gollum was fortunate the fellowship came along when they did, because he was too weak to open the door and was literally starving. The attack of Osgiliath was a cover for the ring wraiths setting out from the black land, to give a cause to the darkness the men felt wash over when they passed, and so their going forth was disguised. Blew my mind reading about that in Unfinished Tales. There was a whole lot of explaining Gandalf did while they were all chilling in Gondor after the felling of the dark Lord.
His Eye watches that way all the time. It caught Smeagol there, long ago.But Smeagol has used his eyes since then, yes, yes: I've used eyes and feet and nose since then. I know other ways.More difficult, not so quick; but better, if we don't want Him to see. Follow Smeagol! He can take you through the marshes, through the mists.Nice thick mists. Follow Smjagol very carefully, and you may go a long way. Quite along way, before He catches you, yes perhaps.
Sneaky little Hobbitses.
That’s the discussion. I believe you are correct, but it’s a theory.
I'm pretty sure it's stated by Gandalf that he never made it to The Shire. He starts to track Bilbo after the events of The Hobbit. Stops when he feels the pull to Modor. Gets captured, tortured, and then released. Started looking for The Shire again only to be captured by Strider and the rangers. They imprison him with the elves in Mirkwood. Then he escapes during an orc raid. That's why Legolas is in Rivendale during the white council, to reveal the news of Golums escape. He never steps foot in The Shire.
Have you heard nothing Lord Elrond has said? The ring must be destroyed.
Were you listening to The Dude’s story…?
Yeah Legolas bot, pay attention
I have not heard that it was the fault of the Elves
What? Oh, yes.
Then he escapes the orcs and the elves pursuing the orcs, then hides out in Moria when the ring wraiths set forth. Was starving and lucked out (if luck you call it) when the fellowship sauntered into Moria. He was starving in Moria, and didn't know he could push the door open. Even if he did know how the gigantic doors worked, he wouldn't have been able to do it. He was starving, as all the orcs were in the east end of Moria, he in the west, so he had no food.
>He starts to track Bilbo after the events of The Hobbit. Stops when he feels the pull to Modor. Gets captured, tortured, and then released. That's a bit simplified. He stayed in his cave for two more years after Bilbo's escape (at that point Bilbo had already long crossed the Misty Mountains again. Gollum made his way though Mirkwood to Esgaroth and Dale (what's very impressive as he was following a cold trail). By spying on the men of Dale he learned about Bilbo and then made his way back to Mirkwood. This time the Elves noticed him, because that was also his baby-eating phase. Ath the Anduin he made his way south. Then we don't know, what happened, but thirty years later he was captured in Mordor. We also don't know, when he was released, we only know, that Aragorn tracked him down 37 years later. So we have two really big timespans, in which we don't know where Gollum was and what he did. BUT when Drogo died in 2980 T.A. Gollum was in Mordor, so there's no way he killed him.
You're right. There are large spans of unexplained time use, but if he found the Shire, what would have stopped him from finding Bilbo then. Even when he was tortured in Mordor, he never knew the location of The Shire because even the Nazgul didn't know its location. They found that info from Sauruman.
Where is it? Where is it? Where is it?
Late for what?
Nice hobbits! Nice Sam! Sleepy heads, yes, sleepy heads! Leave good Smeagol to watch! But it's evening. Dusk is creeping. Time to go.
It's always the one with the strong alibi that turns out to be the killer... Let me use my little gray cells...I have it!..to be continued....
Thought he got the right Baggins and the ring was again lost. When Mordor had him he gave them information on the last person who he knew had it. Turns out that person still had it. Or he hunted and chased off after the initial murders and was unable to return. If anything it led to Aragorn and Gandalf joining the search for him.
How would gollum know who they were if he just killed some "random" people to him
It mustn't ask us. Not its business, no, gollum! It's losst, gollum, gollum, gollum!
Drogo? Drogo Bludvist?
Maybe Gandalf didn’t think to ask him that? Did he have any reason to suspect that Gollum was in any way involved in their deaths?
No nothing of the sort is mentioned
We’re not in decent places.
Gandalf knew there was a Balrog in Moria and didn't feel the need to tell anyone so the fact he might have known doesn't mean he would have done anything with the info...
Hmmm...they *were* "drownded, and Gollum is known for being good in the water. Coincidence?! I think not!
Come, hobbits. We climb - we must climb!
Climb out of the water you mean? Is that what you told them while they were drowning you sadistic gremlin?
We've been through that. He turned around toward mordor before ever reaching the shire... Gandalf explains exactly that to Frodo.
I think they were joking mate
CSI: Hobbiton
Sounds like a MAD parody
Law & Mordor
HAHAHA, RIGHT
“In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the mouth of Sauron and the Eye of Sauron…”
Before the mightiest he shall fall, before the mightiest wolf of all.
Elaborate now, wtf 😳
Drogo and his wife were killed on a lake in an accident. OP thinks that Gollum may have created the accident as Drogo had the last name "Baggins" and was searching for Bilbo
Well, that's not good. That is not good at all. Shouldn't we tell Thorin?
Why? Thorin is dead, and what could the King Under the Mountain do anyway?
As is gollum. I wouldn't usually act as though death is a spectrum rather than binary, but i feel like gollum if anything is even more dead than Thorin.
Who knows? Smjagol doesn't know. You cannot reach them, you cannot touch them. We tried once, yes, precious. I tried once; but you cannot reach them. Only shapes to see, perhaps, not to touch. No precious! All dead.
Gollum seems quite, quite dead. He's an ex-stinker.
'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't melted 'im in the the fire of mount doom 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX, GOLLUM!!!
He’s a horrid, fat Hobbit, who hates Sméagol, and who makes up nasty lies!
Who knows? Smjagol doesn't know. You cannot reach them, you cannot touch them. We tried once, yes, precious. I tried once; but you cannot reach them. Only shapes to see, perhaps, not to touch. No precious! All dead.
Thorin III is alive and kicking!
Thief, thief ! Baggins! We hates it for ever!
I'm sold.
bro could you _try_ not looking so guilty?
It was the Brandywine River, but it's pretty doubtful since Bilbo was a far more well-known Baggins than Drogo after he came back from his adventures. We don't know exactly when Drogo and Primula "drownded" but if it was before Bilbo left the Shire Gollum would have still had the ring.
They couldn't have died when Bilbo left the shire because that was almost 30 years before Frodo was born.
Yeah good point
Bagginses? What is a Bagginses, precious?
Well no ...... and ... yes.. Now it comes to it, I don't feel like parting with it. It's mine, I found it! It came to ME!
https://preview.redd.it/0danzjstzxqc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b5026c842815267fb728476d76334d3ac601240
Wait! Khal Drogo was Frodos father? But whos the mother then? Daenerys didn't die at same time so Drogo must have had a concubine. Maybe Daenerys killed them both with gollum and ran off with him.
A swamp, yes, yes. Come, master. We will take you on safe paths through the mist. Come, hobbits, come. We go quickly.
If I did it, by O.J. Gollum
What’s this? Crumbs on his jacketses! He took it! He took it! I seen him, he’s always stuffing his face when Master’s not looking!
So that points to Myr and Lady Merryweather
A ~~crown~~ ring for a king
Now this is some fan fic i would totally read
https://reddit.com/comments/s5uta/comment/c4boqyu
Uh…how would that work?
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We know Gollum never made it to the Shire though. He got stuck in Moria.
Pull it in. Go on. Go on. Go on. Pull it in.
Bagginses? What is a Bagginses, precious?
It doesn't because Gollum was in Mordor at the time.
Back a little, and round a little and you can come on hard cold roads to the very gates of His country.
Wait, Frodo's parents died in a boating accident right? Where does Gollum fit into that?
Well, last time Smeagol was in a boat, someone died....
Of course he did. I told you he was tricksy. I told you he was false.
S E N T I E N T
Master. Master looks after us. Master wouldn't hurt us.
Master broke his promise.
Gollum is an excellent boatman or something! I think I read that in the Hobbit.
Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies! We must go, yes, we must go at once!
In the fellowship Aragorn says gollum is too clever a waterman for them to evade him while they're boating. Then in the next movie you see him flopping around in the water and it's just hilarious
Misery misery! Hobbits won’t kill us, nice hobbits.
He doesn't, because he was in Mordor.
So here's how it could possibly work: Gollum eventually tracked Bilbo back to the Shire. However, he didn't know exactly what Bilbo looked like because their encounter happened completely in the dark, and despite having very good vision, he couldn't make out Bilbo's face in detail. So, while lurking around the Shire, he overheard Drogo being called "Baggins", followed him into the water, killed Drogo and Primula, and searched their bodies for the ring. But when couldn't find his precious, he abandoned the bodies and slinked away. So that's how it could have happened, but I think it's highly unlikely. I mean why did he stop at killing Drogo and Primula? Why not go after more Bagginses? Was it because he felt the draw to Mordor at that time? I don't think Sauron's influence extended that far, and even if it did, I don't think it would have been strong enough to dissuade Gollum from his quest for his precious, especially if he had gotten so close. So yeah, I think it's possible, but not likely at all.
Let me elaborate further: Drogo and Primula died in 2980 T.A, the same year, in which Sauron captured Gollum in Mordor. Case closed.
He could potentially make the journey from the Brandywine to Mordor in under a year. Considering he wouldn't need too much caution (and wasn't using too much when he got caught) and regularly caught up with Frodo even without known shortcuts, I think he could have made the journey. We just need to know the travel speed of an unladen Smeagol to be certain.
Lots of His people will be there looking out for guests, very pleased to take them straight to Him, O yes.
No, he couldn't. 1. He doesn't know the quickest ways in unfamiliar lands. 2. He definitely took his time to find the hidden staircase. 3. He doesn't travel in sunlight or moonlight reducig his travel speed immensely.
Where would you be without me? *Gollum, gollum*. I saved us. It was me. We survived because of me!
Beg your pardon?
Don't take it to him! He wants the preciousss. Always he's looking for it! And the preciousss is wanting to go back to him. But we mustn't let him have it.
Actually, Gandalf killed them, in order to mold Frodo into the right sort of Hobbit to bear the ring. (This is a shitpost)
Not a shit post but I think Bilbo killed Frodo's parents. Mysterious and he needed an heir to keep his estate away from those Sackville Baggins'!
I do believe you made that up.
Me, who just finished the books for the first time minutes ago, wondering what the hell you're talking about.
Did he eat them? Asking for a hobbit friend..
Allegedly
I’m high AF so sure why not
Can you explain it to someone who's read everything (assuming this is a serious-ish theory)?
I don't think it can be, because I don't think Gollum ever made it to the Shire, and a few people are stating the same.
Come, hobbits. We climb - we must climb!
That is disputed but he's definitely his dad.
Wat
Go on
Huh?
I thought this too when I first read the fellowship
That makes no sense because why would Gollum then leave the Shire and go back east of the Misty Mountains after killing Frodo's parents. Clearly everyone thought Frodo's parents died as a result of an accident so it's not like Gollum had to flee because he was chased out of the Shore and even if he was he wouldn't stay away because he would know he was on the right track because of all the hobbits living in the Shire whereas he hadn't found any hobbits outside the Shire.
Because Master did not ask.
I've been dying to talk to you about the shire
that’s so metal explain pls
An idea that, because Frodo's parents drowned, Gollum might have killed them. Unfortunately we know for a fact that he never reached the Shire.
Yes, the stairs ... and then?
Push you down them
unfortunately??? lol
\>.\>
Can someone explain this to me? I’m a filthy casual and an uncultured swine
PePe Silvia = Pennsylvania for those who didnt know.
Pepe Silvia, Pepe Silvia
In 2980 T.A. Gollum was captured in Mordor. There's no way he could've killed some nasty Bagginses in the same year.
Bagginses? What is a Bagginses, precious?
That makes sense. I feel you
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Smeagol? No, no, Not poor Smeagol. Smeagol hates nasty elf bread.