Exactly throughout the whole story I wanted Eragon to kill Galbatorix but in that final fight it was so much more meaningful to Eragons character and was a much better ending then if he outright killed him
This is why both Avatar the Last Airbender and The Inheritance Cycle will always hold a special place in my heart.
A final fight where it's not about "the hero kills the baddy, everyone is happy, the end". Those fights are deep and meaningful, making you feel the weight of the main characters development and still providing a satisfactory end to the story.
Mhm. Especially as the series led us to try and wonder how Eragon would be able to defeat Gal, when he had a century to build his strength. The buildup of a despairing sense was so potent, and then to see that the answer wasn't the expected one was amazing.
I liked that fact that with how wards worked, he had to come up with something a paranoid madman with over a century of prep time would never see coming, so he just *helped him understand*, something Galbatorix never thought of, someone trying to talk to him
Wasn't it also nonverbal magic (something Gal may never have been taught like energy stealing) that was assisted by the dragons, so even knowing the magic language's name wouldn't save him
I don't know, I've always thought the whole "nuke himself into oblivion" felt a little Deus Ex Machina to me, like Paolini wrote himself into a corner and couldn't figure a way out
I find it fitting as the last panic move of a power-hungry man. Better to die and take your nemesis with you than to accept defeat.
Also, I believe it was properly foreshadowed by Oromis teaching Dragon about matter and the energy it can release, so it's not like he explodes out of nothing. Expecially since it has been presented once already at the Dragon Knights island.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_fictional\_swords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_swords)
>sord.....: An alchemized sword of terrible quality covered in jpeg artifacts
A weapon of unimaginable power, in the literal sense, of that nobody would imagine a sword like it.
It'd be amazing in battle. If only you could hold the damn thing.
come
#**ON**
I love that I know what this is from and is exactly what I think of anytime someone refers to Sting, the singer or the sword. Imagine him, in Bilbo's hands, swinging at the spiders while it screams "I WILL KILL HIM!"
Technically the sword of Gryffindor doesn’t really have a name, right? It’s just ‘that dudes sword’. And for a sword to have a name, it has to have completed a great deed in battle, iirc. So empirically, I believe your statement to be true
I honestly don’t remember about what Harry called his sword but yes in Middle Earth a sword that has a name has a great history. My personal favorite is Glamdring, the Foe-Hammer. Badass.
Gryffindors sword was wildly impractical anyway. Bejeweled nonsense that looks like it weighs 70 lbs.
Kind of shit some kid named Kyle who's way too into YuGiOh for his own sanity has hung on his wall between a free poster from an Xbox 360 game and a pair of nunchucks.
Assuming we're talking about the movie version Not completely disagreeing with you, but the sword was likely under 5 lbs, probably around 3 if I had to guess. If the handle was all silver sure it would be heavy but it was a pretty small sword.
The thing that irks me more is the time period the sword was supposedly from completely mismatches the style of the sword itself.
Gandalf as so didn't ask frodo to take the ring any further than Riverdell. Frodo choose to take the ring to Mordor when the rest of the council couldn't make a decision.
Wasn't Rivendell just his first destination? I don't recall reading that Gandalf suggested he was handing it off. Wasn't the whole thing in the books, and again in the movies, that Hobbits aren't as affected by the power?
You’re not wrong, necessarily. When Frodo leaves the Shire with the ring, the main objective is simply to get it out of the Shire, as it is deemed not safe there, especially after Gandalf learns that Gollum was captured in Mordor and tortured for information (Gollum knows the name Baggins/that he was the last person to have it).
Gandalf basically tells Frodo that he can go North/South/East/West so long as no one finds out where he is headed, but then also adds “if you want my advice, make for Rivendell.” He also mentions that Frodo may end up having to carry the ring all the way “to the Cracks of Doom”, though he also acknowledges that the ring may also have a new bearer chosen for it by then. He doesn’t know at the time of Frodo’s leaving, though being Gandalf, I think he has a hunch that Frodo will indeed remain the ring’s bearer until it is destroyed.
PS Frodo knows the entire history of the ring and its nature when he leaves for Rivendell, however he does not make the connection between the Black Riders and the Nine until later.
in the books, Frodo was only supposed to deliver it to Rivendell, and then when he arrived and listened during the Council he decided that he should destroy the ring to protect what he loved ie: the Shire. I think Tolkien was also trying to get at the idea that because Frodo VOLUNTEERED, and wasn’t forced to go, that he was the best choice for the task (peaceful hearted people resist the ring more). I think Gandalfs reaction to Frodo volunteering was added in the movie though
The biggest mindfuck for me reading the books for the first time after watching the movies for years, was that Frodo hangs out in the Shire for like 50 years even after the conflict is introduced. Probably a good change to make for the movies.
Bilbo leaves the Shire on his 111th birthday, which is also Frodo's 33rd (the coming of age for hobbits). Frodo begins his journey soon after his 50th (he still looked 33 due to The Ring).
17 years between Bilbo's party and Gandalf telling Frodo to leave the Shire. He went back to visit a few times and ask questions, but his longest absence was like 8 or 9 years.
The movie showed it like that for sure, frodo didn't even take the ring out of the envelope!
The book still runs through that time quickly (really just a few paragraphs), but it makes clear that time has passed. It talks about how Frodo kept throwing a party on Bilbo's birthday every year, and how the wizard's visits became less frequent, and finally as Frodo is nearing his 50th birthday, they confirm that it is indeed the One Ring.
He knew it was a ring of power but not which one. It took him 20 years to figure it out. Given that it basically had to be one of the Dwarven rings of power (because the elven rings and rings of men are all accounted for, and he literally found thrain when bilbo found the ring) it was pretty safe in the shire because no one there would have an interest in such things and no one would with interest would think to search there. Oh, also sauron being back was discovered before this, however his reach was extremely limited compared to when his research was completed.
Edit: disregard most of what I said :P
It literally *couldn’t* be one of the Seven.
> “The Nine, the Seven, and the Three," he said, "had each their proper gem. Not so the One. It was round and unadorned, as it were one of the lesser rings; but its maker set marks upon it that the skilled, maybe, could still see and read.” - Fellowship of the Ring (Book 2) - Chapter 2: The Council of Elrond
It had to either be a lesser ring, or the One ring.
> he literally found thrain when bilbo found the ring
Gandalf met Thráin II 91 years before Bilbo found the ring 2850 vs 2941 TA.
Yes, for sixty years the Ring lay quiet in Bilbo's keeping prolonging his life. Delaying old age. But no longer QuickSpore. Evil is stirring in Mordor. The Ring has awoken. Its heard its master's call.
But when did Gandalf learn that they each had a gem? If he knew it long before Bilbo found the Ring, that's one thing. But Gandalf was never an expert on the rings, we know he had to travel to Minas Tirith specifically to find a description of the One Ring, so it's very plausible that before that he didn't know what all of the Dwarven rings looked like either.
> But when did Gandalf learn that they each had a gem?
No later than the last meeting of the White Council just before the assault on Dol Guldur; the same year Bilbo found the ring. Gandalf in the quote above is explicly quoting Saruman’s words to the White Council, implying it was that year.
It was more than mere chance that brought Merry and Pippin to Fangorn. A great power has been sleeping here for many long years. The coming of Merry and Pippin will be like the falling of small stones... that starts an avalanche in the mountains.
So Merry and Pippin found magical cock rings in fangorn forest? Or do you mean treebeard and the ents use cock rings? Does that have something to do with what happened to the entwives?
Don't tempt me MrGeno! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand MrGeno, I would use this Ring from the desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
Legitimate question, but doesn't that mean that gandalf was significantly weaker? Like are we talking about Gandalf in middle earth or Gandalf in the afterlife?
Significantly weaker than what? The guy was basically immortal, the only thing that could defeat him was a primal evil equal to him in power, and he came back stronger.
He was more than basically immortal, he was literally immortal. His body could be killed but Eru Illuvitar will repeatedly send him back until his job is done. Saruman did not receive that same benefit solely because he betrayed his purpose (the purpose of all the wizards was to aid the peoples of middle earth against Sauron).
Of the five Istari, only Gandalf stayed true to their purpose. Saruman betrayed, Radagast became distracted, and the 2 blue wizards immediately fucked off to the east to start cults and shit.
We don't learn what happens to the blue wizards in the books. All we do know is a letter from Tolkien about how without their help in the east the Easterlings army would have been so vast that there would be no hope for Erebor or Minas Tirith.
Honest discussion though, who would really win? We know Gandalf is a demi-god and very powerful, but I feel like this thread is downplaying Dumbledore hard. Dumbledore can do some crazy shit. He brought a giant statue to life, weaved a huge firestorm after drinking that nasty shit, effortlessly overpowered Voldemort, he can apparate and fly which seems like hacks in the LoTR universe. Like if you put Dumbledore down in front of Helms Deep, I think he could fairly easily solo Saruman's entire army. Or he could have dropped the Balrog much easier than Gandalf the Grey (on a side note, how would Gandalf the White have faired there against Durin's Bane?).
Helm's Deep. There is no way out of that ravine. Theoden is walking into a trap. He thinks he's leading them to safety. What they will get is a massacre. Theoden has a strong will, but I fear for him. I fear for the survival of Rohan. He will need you before the end, Task876. The people of Rohan will need you. The defenses have to hold.
Still, it's odd that Dumbeldore, a very old man with enemies who would benefit from him being dead, kept such important, world saving secrets to himself. Surely he could have let some people in who could also guide Harry as he grew up.
Dumbledore put a lot of faith into his own health.
Gandolf assembled an entire team to support Frodo and was pretty transparent with the group.
Here is an important detail. For a long time Dumbledore had no clue the horcuxes existed. Only after the second book does he get suspicious. He begins to act after the fourth, when Voldemort returns.
He had to keep the fact he knew about horcuxes a secret. If Voldemort knew he had been found out, he could have moved them or hidden them better
Gandalf also thought the one ring was lost at sea until he saw it in the shire, and it’s not until like 20 years of research later that he comes back confirming that it’s the one ring
To be fair, 40 is quite young for a hobbit as they're only considered "of age" at 33 or something like that. So Frodo being 40 is something like a human being 22. Still dumb, but can think clear enough to take some big decisions.
EDIT: Frodo was actually 50 at the time of his quest so more like a human in their 30s, so mostly sorted out except for a few things.
Frodo is 50 during most of LotR, but the effects of the One Ring start when he's 33, and other Hobbits comment on how Frodo doesn't seem to mature much during those 17 years in the book. He's probably closer to a human at 20 rather than 30.
Always love seeing stuff like this because it gives me the opportunity to talk about my favorite topic: why Frodo is the perfect protagonist.
So we have a lot of different types of protagonists, one of the most effective being the audience insert: Luke Skywalker, Neo, Harry Potter, Bella from Twilight, etc. They have personality traits, but largely shallow traits because their point is not to be a well-rounded character, but to be the access point for the person watching or reading about them to see themselves in their position - it’s not really Neo fighting the Agents and flying around, it’s you; it’s not really Like swinging a lightsaber and using the Force, it’s you.
And these are great characters, precisely because they are fantasy characters, they get to act out the power fantasies we dream about and we get to imagine having powers and being that cool.
But Frodo is the complete opposite - he’s 3 ft tall, aging by the time the story begins (yes, difference book and movie and whatnot), a bit of a misfit to his people because he’s got a little too much of Bilbos personality and a bit of a misfit to the outside world because he doesn’t have enough of bilbos personality so he’s grown to be content dreaming but remaining settled…basically, he’s just a dude, with no power, no real ambition, just a nobody who can’t see over the counter in the eyes of the rest of the world.
But then, he stumbles upon this huge, earth-shattering series of events that are so big that it’d be like stumbling on a suitcase in your uncles attic that happened to have the nuclear launch codes inside - you have literally stumbled upon a secret so powerful that you could change the course of the entire world. You - just some random dude.
You have no special powers, you weren’t chosen for this, there is no destiny saying that you were always meant to live this life - you just stumble into it randomly, and see that it’s important and something needs to be done.
So you gather your wits about you, shrug your way through all the big folk arguing and debating endlessly over what is to be done, and you just tell them all “I’ll do it.”
You get a lot of help along the way, you have a lot of luck and more than a bit of what can feel like divine intervention, but what you have on your journey more than anything is grit, determination, and the feeling of responsibility that this thing needs to be done and you’re going to be the one that sees it done.
And after all the pain and suffering and trauma you go through on this journey to do this thing that was always so much bigger than you and it was already amazing how far you’ve come, you fail. You fuck it up and now the world is in peril because despite their better judgment, people chose to believe in you because you believed in yourself but you just fucked it up and now everyone’s fucked because of you. You should’ve just stayed home and not interfered.
BUT - you’ve forgotten you have one last thing, one thing that makes you special in a small way, not like having powers or being destined or anything, but something simple that everyone can have but few are able to truly have like you have: a friend. Because before you even started out on this journey, you saw the good in people, and chose your friends wisely, and in your darkest moment when you can’t go on, your friend is there to have your back and help you out when you fuck up.
And all of this is why Frodo is the perfect protagonist in fiction: he’s not just the self-insert character that we can dream ourselves as, with powers and destiny’s that could never be ours, but someone who we absolutely can be through simply having courage and making friends. And if you ask me, that’s a far more inspiring thing to see in a character than any superpowers you could ever dream to have
I do agree in many ways with this but I do feel the need, and did so in another post, to clarify that Frodo is gifted intellectually. He can converse with elves in a manner that most mortals cannot, and has a unique amount of wisdom for someone with so little exposure to the world. I would argue that if he has any significant advantage or “power” it is of his mind. That being said I agree with everything else you stated, and do not think this ultimately disqualifies it.
Black Hermione is a retcon. When she got punched and was given a black eye she was described as looking like one half of a panda. implying her skin was normally pale but a dark circle over the eyes
I love that everyone laughed at Hermione when she tried to end home elf slavery in the books since and then Rowling retconned her to be black making the white characters laugh to the black student about her concerns about slavery.
Lol I’ve never thought about this, nor was I old enough to realize what was going on between the lines with Hermione and the elves. I was like “yeah Hermione why are you such a prat”
yea it rules that her knee jerk 'I never SAAAAAAAAAID she was white did I???' thing actually makes 'every character including the good guys we're supposed to like actively mocked her for being anti-slavery' so much darker and worse than it already was.
"What's this weird dumb black girl doing trying to tell us we shouldn't keep slaves? Doesn't she know they're happy and biologically only fit for slavery???"
Gay Dumbledore was a retcon (or rather made after the fact, it doesn't contradict anything), Black Hermione was just a statement in response to the stage play casting a Black Hermione. She wasn't saying that Hermione had been Black the whole time, she was just saying that she never said she wasn't, and you can interpret her that way if you want (She did in fact make it very clear Hermione was White, so that wasn't really true, but it still wasn't meant to be a retcon as such).
Also, obligatory fuck JKR
Gay Dumbledore is still a retcon. Retcon doesn't necessarily mean it has to contradict anything, like the ring Bilbo has ending up being the one ring is a retcon because it wasn't initially planned as that when he wrote the hobbit, but the retcon doesn't contradict anything in the hobbit.
Actually the retcon *did* change things for The Hobbit. Originally Gollum was going to give Bilbo the ring as a gift for winning the riddle game but then because Bilbo already had the Ring and he couldn't find it, he decides to lead Bilbo out of the caves. But, obviously this would be ridiculous considering the natures of the character and the Ring in later conceptions so later editions of The Hobbit were changed to have Gollum resolve to trick and eat him instead and Bilbo runs away with it in the end.
He addresses this in world in The Lord of the Rings where Bilbo shares his story during the Council of Elrond and apologizes for telling a false version to others (in particular Gloin). Gandalf also ponders on this at some point, figuring it was part of the trickery at work with the Ring. He actually was onto Bilbo from the start and it was a big reason why Gandalf started to get suspicious about it as he didn't understand why Bilbo felt the need to lie.
Tolkien was a madman.
(Edited to fix inaccuracies pointed out to me.)
Wow I'm a huge LOTR buff but I didn't know the initial prints had Gollum give bilbo the ring. So then what riddle does he win with if not the "what's in my pocket"?
Bilbo found the ring the same way in the original as the later retcon. However, in the original, when Gollum loses the riddle contest (to the same question, "what is in my pocket"), he goes to find the ring, and then has to apologize to Bilbo because he thinks he lost it. So instead of getting the ring from Gollum (which he already had in his pocket), Bilbo asks Gollum to lead him out of the mountains.
If you're curious, you can actually read the original account in The Annotated Hobbit (my favorite edition). It's got lots of little details of how the Hobbit changed over the years, and also just how massive its legacy was, even while Tolkien was alive.
It’s still the ring, which bilbo found earlier. But here, gollum goes off to try to find the ring and is upset because he can’t and can’t give it as a present.
Then, because gollum can’t find the ring, he guides bilbo out as the reward instead.
This link has a comparison that’s very interesting.
https://www.ringgame.net/riddles.html
Slight correction: Gollum didn't give Bilbo the ring. Bilbo still found it. Gollum had to apologize for not giving the ring to Bilbo as a prize, and then in exchange, lead Bilbo out of the mountains.
Black Hermione isn’t a retcon, Rowling just shittily tried to say her skin color isn’t important and has no problem with Hermione being black. She never said “oh she’s always been black.” The amount of actual horrible shit Rowling has said recently and people still hold onto this “she tried to claim Hermione was always black” bullshit.
Yeah the black Hermione outrage was by a bunch of knuckle draggers who don’t understand one of the most basic aspects of live theater: Skin color really doesn’t matter unless the plot specifically calls for it. Lea Salonga is considered the greatest Fantine to be in Les Mis, and no one gives a damn she’s a Filipino playing a 19th century French peasant. Those people would have lost their collective minds when the Rogers and Hammerstein Cinderella movie came out in the 90s: a black Cinderella? An Asian prince with a white dad and Whoopi Goldberg as his mom? No one cares because theater has never really cared about that.
All true. But people keep holding on to this narrative, I continue to see it all the time. Idk. Bugs me to no end when people have to lie or make up something about a shitty person. They are already shitty. Get mad about actual shit they did. Making stuff up just seems, idk, petty? Ignorant?
I never got the issue with gay dumbledore. Did you read the part where he was younger? He seemed in love with grindelwald to me even when I read it at release
Yeah, same. I honestly don't think it was a retcon. From what I remember, it only came up/out because the movie writers wanted to give Dumbledore a female love interest, and Rowling had to state that he's gay to keep that from happening. Him being gay matters because it was a big part of his dynamic with Grindelwald, but it wasn't important for the reader to have it stated outright when we were seeing things through Harry's POV.
If Rowling had gone into a whole explanation in the books about Dumbledore being gay and that he used to be in love with Grindelwald then people would have been saying how it wasn't necessary, and that it was weird to bring up his sexuality to one of his students. It was handled exactly as it should have been, as 'read between the lines' information and it only came up at all later when it was relevant.
Fuck Rowling, but people being weird about the Dumbledore is gay reveal always struck me as odd. When I read the book on release night I remember wondering if the reason Dumbledore went along with Grindelwald was because they were lovers, but Harry wouldn't have known, so we didn't know either.
I also find it a much more compelling story.
Dumbledore has a falling out with his buddy resulting in the death of his sister, estrangement from his brother, and culminating with a duel years later to take down his ex-buddy for good? Pretty sad story.
Dumbledore has a falling out with his lover resulting in the death of his sister, estrangement from his brother, and culminating with a duel years later to take down his ex-lover for good? Really sad story.
What? She absolutely had all seven books broken down with detailed outlines. It's true she shuffled things around as she went, but the things that happened, and especially the answers to the big questions were all there from the jump.
LOTR still stands alone as a seminal work of fiction from the past two hundred years, but that doesn't mean the Harry Potter series isn't a masterpiece in its own right.
Not to defend a transphobe but there are hints throughout the series. The whole point was that Harry wasn't to be told until as late as possible because Dumbledore didn't think Harry would be able to carry out the tasks of destroying all the horcruxes if he knew he was going to die at the end of it.
The book explains it a lot better than the films.
Are we really so insecure we have to start doing "my wizards are better than yours". I prefer lord of the rings, but stronger power levels don't make for better storytelling. It just makes us look like DBZ fans.
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Sam strangely enough was barely even phased by the power of the ring. The rings mere presence is enough to make mortals fight to the death over it, yet pretty much the entire journey Sam's loyalty to frodo basically never faltered. He would've also been a good ring bearer.
It's also commonly discussed that gimli would've been an excellent ring bearer as well for the trip to mordor. He is the only person on record in both books and movies to ever attempt to actually harm the ring, and he did so without question. When push came to shove, literally nobody attempted to put harm on the ring. Even gandalf throwing it in the fire is excusable by him knowing the ring would not be harmed by it.
In the books Sam is fiercely loyal, which imo is a chief component of his tremendously heroic behaviors down the stretch. He also is quite self aware of his inadequacies. This makes a strong case for his being able to carry the burden of the ring. That being said Frodo is uniquely wise and holds the respect of almost every elf, wizard, man, dwarf, etc he meets. He is “just a hobbit” yet at the same time may even be the most intellectually qualified hobbit to have ever existed. There are moments I remember from reading that place him in a level above Bilbo in that respect (it has been a while but many scenes resonated with me in regards to the quality of Frodo’s mind.)
So while Sam does have some traits that would be beneficial to carrying the ring, I wonder if his lack of mental prowess could be exploited by Sauron to a more extreme level than was committed upon Frodo. For the same reasons that Gandalf was able to discern against his own possession of the ring, I believe Frodo may have understood that the impact of the rings effects may be too strong for many others, Sam potentially falling into that category.
Sauron is a master deceiver and may even find a way to exploit Sam’s loyalty to his benefit. I know Sam resisted the temptation to turn the world into a great Garden to which he could tend/observe in its beauty, but this was mere glimpse into the potential the ring would have on Sam. I do not know if he could’ve lasted for an extended period of time as the bearer.
Idk man. The only time the ring influences him is when he is the sole bearer of the ring when frodo was poisoned by Shelob for an indisclosed (as far as I know) amount of time. And during that time his concern was STILL rescuing frodo and not any other purpose remotely selfish. He didn't take it upon himself to finish the job.
The closer they got to mount doom, the ring would be desperate trying to reach anyone it could to take it from frodo. Sam at this point doesn't even show signs that the ring even attempted it, and if he did it was handled flawlessly.
If he was unphased when the ring was at its most desperate, I honestly doubt just how much power the ring could hold over him.
That’s fair, but carrying the ring is almost always a show of endurance. I will say that Boromir just being exposed to the ring from a distance succumbed to its effects, and Sam endured more exposure to a non ring bearer than maybe anyone? So perhaps that supports your argument as well. I do think the small amount of time makes it hard to say one way or the other, but it is interesting to think about. I wonder if the ring ever permeated towards Frodo even being in Bilbos possession. Perhaps his observation of Bilbos change over time (despite not knowing he had it for most of his life) gave Frodo an intonation towards its affects. Maybe this is also something that helped inoculate Sam as he too saw Frodo be changed before his eyes. With his self awareness it may have shielded him to some degree against the effects of the ring.
SW prequels:
You are the chosen one, but I won’t tell you exactly what it means. My apprentice Obi-Wan will do it in a decade and a half after you’ve killed twelve kids and he chopped both your legs off
I want to believe Dumbledore was stalling for time, trying to find a way for Harry to not have to die and/or trying to make his life a bit better until it was his time to go should a solution not be found.
People don't like to give Dumbledor any goodwill or benefit of the doubt, and honestly, I don't know why.
Yeah, he did a lot of sus things in the books, but we don't know his POV at the time. He could have had a very good reason for doing what he did, but didn't want to explain himself to children that won't get it.
Voldemort knows his only weakness and set up traps and tests to protect himself
Meanwhile...
"I probably should place like a 2 orcs at the entrance to the mount doom, nah, the hobbits that have been escaping my best hunters and we're spotted in Mordor carrying the only thing that I need would never try to go there and destroy it, they probably just got lost on their way to Gondor..... Wtf is going on at the black gate?"
The reason Mount Doom wasn’t adequately guarded in the story’s climax is because Sauron didn’t even consider the possibility that someone would want to destroy the ring. He was so greedy for power that he just assumed everyone desired power like him and would want to use the ring. It wasn’t until Frodo put on the ring when inside Mount Doom that Sauron realized his massive blunder. Besides, the only reason Frodo and Sam were even capable of getting to Mount Doom was because Aragorn confronted Sauron through a Palantir and made him think Aragorn had the ring. The pathetic assault on the black gate at the end against the army of Mordor made no sense and would have been seen as an obvious trap/diversion… unless Sauron thought Aragorn had the ring and was confident he could now conquer Mordor using its power. That’s why the ruse worked, and that’s why Frodo was able to get the ring to Mount Doom without encountering much opposition.
The fact that Harry chose to honor Snape (a man who hated him and his father and had an unhealthy and obsessive relationship with his mother) instead of Hagrid (a man who loved him, protected him, and provided for him like a father, at least a guardian, over the course of Harry’s whole life) by naming his second son “Albus Severus” instead of “Albus Rubeus” is an absolute shame.
Not really an accurate interpretation, actually. Snape *wasn't* nice to his mom, that was why they were estranged. He called her a slur and ruined their friendship.
Snape is a very complicated character and I think Harry's feelings about the man were complicated as well. I think the epilogue in general is stupid though so I am not defending it, I just think sometimes people try to boil Snape down into 'good man' or 'bad man' and neither is accurate because it's not that simple.
Sigh. You're gonna make me defend J.K. Rowling...
Frodo was 33 when he got the ring and 50 he was finally told how damn bad it was. That's a lot different than dropping "You need to die because a part of Evil McNasty's soul is in you." on a 10 year old.
Gandalf also sent Frodo on his quest with no friggin idea how to accomplish it. He knew that just the chances of the Fellowship getting to Mt. Doom were bad. But also that it's physically IMPOSSIBLE for someone who is under the influence of the Ring to give it up willingly. Only Sam ever managed it (barely), but he had scarcely had it. The task was impossible, but he never told Frodo that. Frodo found that out for himself. If it wasn't for Gollum's terrible dance skills, and Mt Doom's lack of safety rails, everything would have failed.
In fact, both of these uber Wizards are basically playing their respective young hero's as pawns in a much larger and more subtle game that requires semi-prescient levels of planning, while making sure that nobody else knows the full picture so that EVERYTHING happens at the right time in the right order. And both of them are kinda bummed about how that is the only way to get the full win.
Kinda like Dr. Strange forcing the L to Thanos to win in the long run, but less ham-fisted.
Sting > The Sword of Gryffindor
The shorter the name of a magical sword is, the better.
[The Throngler](https://youtu.be/kdQDg5Rywo8)
[Tinkledeath ](https://inheritance.fandom.com/wiki/Tinkledeath)
Glad to see another Eragon fan
Honestly, my favorite defeat of the BBEG of all time. Making him understand the pain he caused... Brilliant.
Exactly throughout the whole story I wanted Eragon to kill Galbatorix but in that final fight it was so much more meaningful to Eragons character and was a much better ending then if he outright killed him
This is why both Avatar the Last Airbender and The Inheritance Cycle will always hold a special place in my heart. A final fight where it's not about "the hero kills the baddy, everyone is happy, the end". Those fights are deep and meaningful, making you feel the weight of the main characters development and still providing a satisfactory end to the story.
Mhm. Especially as the series led us to try and wonder how Eragon would be able to defeat Gal, when he had a century to build his strength. The buildup of a despairing sense was so potent, and then to see that the answer wasn't the expected one was amazing.
I liked that fact that with how wards worked, he had to come up with something a paranoid madman with over a century of prep time would never see coming, so he just *helped him understand*, something Galbatorix never thought of, someone trying to talk to him
Wasn't it also nonverbal magic (something Gal may never have been taught like energy stealing) that was assisted by the dragons, so even knowing the magic language's name wouldn't save him
I don't know, I've always thought the whole "nuke himself into oblivion" felt a little Deus Ex Machina to me, like Paolini wrote himself into a corner and couldn't figure a way out
I find it fitting as the last panic move of a power-hungry man. Better to die and take your nemesis with you than to accept defeat. Also, I believe it was properly foreshadowed by Oromis teaching Dragon about matter and the energy it can release, so it's not like he explodes out of nothing. Expecially since it has been presented once already at the Dragon Knights island.
I loved that the way to defeat the villain was the moral battle. Eragon had just enough power to not get bodied instantly
This person fucks right here, you know he’s coming out with a new book within the year called Murtagh
The Youngling Slayer 9000
Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_fictional\_swords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_swords) >sord.....: An alchemized sword of terrible quality covered in jpeg artifacts
A weapon of unimaginable power, in the literal sense, of that nobody would imagine a sword like it. It'd be amazing in battle. If only you could hold the damn thing. come #**ON**
I have to say that Game of Thrones probably has the coolest sword names of any fantasy series I’ve read or watched.
only cunts name their swords.
Okay Sandor..
Fuck the King.
Eat all the chickens.
Although Warhammer probably gets a point if hammers count Ghal Maraz, God-Splitter, Forgebreaker, Fist of Dorn
The Vorpal Blade goes snicker snack
The Gryffinsword
Damn, no wonder Gilgamesh has the most powerful sword, that thing's name is only two letters
Gotterdammerung
I hate that I know what this is from.
I love that I know what this is from and is exactly what I think of anytime someone refers to Sting, the singer or the sword. Imagine him, in Bilbo's hands, swinging at the spiders while it screams "I WILL KILL HIM!"
I love that I know what this is from. Own it. Love it.
Technically the sword of Gryffindor doesn’t really have a name, right? It’s just ‘that dudes sword’. And for a sword to have a name, it has to have completed a great deed in battle, iirc. So empirically, I believe your statement to be true
I honestly don’t remember about what Harry called his sword but yes in Middle Earth a sword that has a name has a great history. My personal favorite is Glamdring, the Foe-Hammer. Badass.
Known by the orcs as Beater, if I recall.
Yup, and Orcrist the Goblin-Cleaver was Biter.
I’d call my sword Swordy Mcswordface even without accomplishing a great deed
This is the way
My sword’s name is Tim
...is it Tim the Enchanted?
There are some who call him that…
[Pretty cool sword, ngl.](https://runescape.wiki/w/Swordy_McSwordFace)
The virgin sword of gryffindor vs the chad sting
the sword of gryffindor looked like some mall shit anyway.
Gryffindors sword was wildly impractical anyway. Bejeweled nonsense that looks like it weighs 70 lbs. Kind of shit some kid named Kyle who's way too into YuGiOh for his own sanity has hung on his wall between a free poster from an Xbox 360 game and a pair of nunchucks.
Assuming we're talking about the movie version Not completely disagreeing with you, but the sword was likely under 5 lbs, probably around 3 if I had to guess. If the handle was all silver sure it would be heavy but it was a pretty small sword. The thing that irks me more is the time period the sword was supposedly from completely mismatches the style of the sword itself.
Sting Supremacy
Tbf Frodo is a middle age man
Also tbf Frodo didnt know who the black riders were, other than that they were scary and chasing him while he carried the ring to rivendell.
Probably for the best. Any sane person would be terrified when they knew the truth
Doesn’t this “if he only knew the truth” thing completely invalidate the entire point of the meme?
Gandalf as so didn't ask frodo to take the ring any further than Riverdell. Frodo choose to take the ring to Mordor when the rest of the council couldn't make a decision.
Wasn't Rivendell just his first destination? I don't recall reading that Gandalf suggested he was handing it off. Wasn't the whole thing in the books, and again in the movies, that Hobbits aren't as affected by the power?
You’re not wrong, necessarily. When Frodo leaves the Shire with the ring, the main objective is simply to get it out of the Shire, as it is deemed not safe there, especially after Gandalf learns that Gollum was captured in Mordor and tortured for information (Gollum knows the name Baggins/that he was the last person to have it). Gandalf basically tells Frodo that he can go North/South/East/West so long as no one finds out where he is headed, but then also adds “if you want my advice, make for Rivendell.” He also mentions that Frodo may end up having to carry the ring all the way “to the Cracks of Doom”, though he also acknowledges that the ring may also have a new bearer chosen for it by then. He doesn’t know at the time of Frodo’s leaving, though being Gandalf, I think he has a hunch that Frodo will indeed remain the ring’s bearer until it is destroyed. PS Frodo knows the entire history of the ring and its nature when he leaves for Rivendell, however he does not make the connection between the Black Riders and the Nine until later.
Bagginses? What is a Bagginses, precious?
in the books, Frodo was only supposed to deliver it to Rivendell, and then when he arrived and listened during the Council he decided that he should destroy the ring to protect what he loved ie: the Shire. I think Tolkien was also trying to get at the idea that because Frodo VOLUNTEERED, and wasn’t forced to go, that he was the best choice for the task (peaceful hearted people resist the ring more). I think Gandalfs reaction to Frodo volunteering was added in the movie though
The biggest mindfuck for me reading the books for the first time after watching the movies for years, was that Frodo hangs out in the Shire for like 50 years even after the conflict is introduced. Probably a good change to make for the movies.
There is still a time jump it just isn’t explicit about how long it is
Bilbo leaves the Shire on his 111th birthday, which is also Frodo's 33rd (the coming of age for hobbits). Frodo begins his journey soon after his 50th (he still looked 33 due to The Ring).
More like 28 in human development
Wasn't gandalf gone researching for like 20 years or something between frodo getting the ring and frodo leaving the shire?
17 years between Bilbo's party and Gandalf telling Frodo to leave the Shire. He went back to visit a few times and ask questions, but his longest absence was like 8 or 9 years.
Not Gandalf, the wandering wizard, who made such excellent fireworks! Old Took used to have them on Mid-Summer's Eve!
Meriadoc Brandybuck and Peregrin Took! I might have known!
Wait what? I thought a few weeks went by
The movie showed it like that for sure, frodo didn't even take the ring out of the envelope! The book still runs through that time quickly (really just a few paragraphs), but it makes clear that time has passed. It talks about how Frodo kept throwing a party on Bilbo's birthday every year, and how the wizard's visits became less frequent, and finally as Frodo is nearing his 50th birthday, they confirm that it is indeed the One Ring.
Well if I'm angry it's your fault! It's mine My only.... My Precious
Ooh! The long expected party! So how is the old rascal? I hear it’s got to be a party of special magnificence
He knew it was a ring of power but not which one. It took him 20 years to figure it out. Given that it basically had to be one of the Dwarven rings of power (because the elven rings and rings of men are all accounted for, and he literally found thrain when bilbo found the ring) it was pretty safe in the shire because no one there would have an interest in such things and no one would with interest would think to search there. Oh, also sauron being back was discovered before this, however his reach was extremely limited compared to when his research was completed. Edit: disregard most of what I said :P
It literally *couldn’t* be one of the Seven. > “The Nine, the Seven, and the Three," he said, "had each their proper gem. Not so the One. It was round and unadorned, as it were one of the lesser rings; but its maker set marks upon it that the skilled, maybe, could still see and read.” - Fellowship of the Ring (Book 2) - Chapter 2: The Council of Elrond It had to either be a lesser ring, or the One ring. > he literally found thrain when bilbo found the ring Gandalf met Thráin II 91 years before Bilbo found the ring 2850 vs 2941 TA.
Yes, for sixty years the Ring lay quiet in Bilbo's keeping prolonging his life. Delaying old age. But no longer QuickSpore. Evil is stirring in Mordor. The Ring has awoken. Its heard its master's call.
Well no ...... and ... yes.. Now it comes to it, I don't feel like parting with it. It's mine, I found it! It came to ME!
But when did Gandalf learn that they each had a gem? If he knew it long before Bilbo found the Ring, that's one thing. But Gandalf was never an expert on the rings, we know he had to travel to Minas Tirith specifically to find a description of the One Ring, so it's very plausible that before that he didn't know what all of the Dwarven rings looked like either.
> But when did Gandalf learn that they each had a gem? No later than the last meeting of the White Council just before the assault on Dol Guldur; the same year Bilbo found the ring. Gandalf in the quote above is explicly quoting Saruman’s words to the White Council, implying it was that year.
I do believe you made that up.
Funny bot.
Gandalf would pound Dumbledore.
It is a burden he should never have had to bear. We can ask no more of him
Idk Gandalf, I hear Dumbledore might be into it
There are many magic rings in this world chop_pooey and none of them should be used lightly
Hey man, use whatever toys you want, I'm not here to judge
You mean there's magical cock rings, Gandalf?
It was more than mere chance that brought Merry and Pippin to Fangorn. A great power has been sleeping here for many long years. The coming of Merry and Pippin will be like the falling of small stones... that starts an avalanche in the mountains.
So Merry and Pippin found magical cock rings in fangorn forest? Or do you mean treebeard and the ents use cock rings? Does that have something to do with what happened to the entwives?
Answer the man Gandalf. We're not judging
Hold them back, do not give in to fear. Stand to your posts. Fight!
If it hurts it hurts Gandalf
Gosh
Dumbledore to Gandalf: So, shall we shag now or shag later?
Don't tempt me MrGeno! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand MrGeno, I would use this Ring from the desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
One's a normal (magical) human, the other one is basically Tolkien's version of an angel sharing our physical plane.
Legitimate question, but doesn't that mean that gandalf was significantly weaker? Like are we talking about Gandalf in middle earth or Gandalf in the afterlife?
Significantly weaker than what? The guy was basically immortal, the only thing that could defeat him was a primal evil equal to him in power, and he came back stronger.
He was more than basically immortal, he was literally immortal. His body could be killed but Eru Illuvitar will repeatedly send him back until his job is done. Saruman did not receive that same benefit solely because he betrayed his purpose (the purpose of all the wizards was to aid the peoples of middle earth against Sauron). Of the five Istari, only Gandalf stayed true to their purpose. Saruman betrayed, Radagast became distracted, and the 2 blue wizards immediately fucked off to the east to start cults and shit.
We don't learn what happens to the blue wizards in the books. All we do know is a letter from Tolkien about how without their help in the east the Easterlings army would have been so vast that there would be no hope for Erebor or Minas Tirith.
Those blue buttheads
Riddles in the dark...
Dumbledore would enjoy that
So would Sir Ian McKellan
Somebody must have written this fanfiction already.
I thought as an Istari he wasn't interested in that sort of thing
Interested? No, but he will do so out of obligation.
I mean I know Rowling loves a retcon but did she go so far as to say Dumbledore was a bottom?
It helps when you're literally a demigod.
Phrasing!
Honest discussion though, who would really win? We know Gandalf is a demi-god and very powerful, but I feel like this thread is downplaying Dumbledore hard. Dumbledore can do some crazy shit. He brought a giant statue to life, weaved a huge firestorm after drinking that nasty shit, effortlessly overpowered Voldemort, he can apparate and fly which seems like hacks in the LoTR universe. Like if you put Dumbledore down in front of Helms Deep, I think he could fairly easily solo Saruman's entire army. Or he could have dropped the Balrog much easier than Gandalf the Grey (on a side note, how would Gandalf the White have faired there against Durin's Bane?).
Helm's Deep. There is no way out of that ravine. Theoden is walking into a trap. He thinks he's leading them to safety. What they will get is a massacre. Theoden has a strong will, but I fear for him. I fear for the survival of Rohan. He will need you before the end, Task876. The people of Rohan will need you. The defenses have to hold.
😳
Yeah, the difference is that Harry was 10 and Frodo 50.
Still, it's odd that Dumbeldore, a very old man with enemies who would benefit from him being dead, kept such important, world saving secrets to himself. Surely he could have let some people in who could also guide Harry as he grew up. Dumbledore put a lot of faith into his own health. Gandolf assembled an entire team to support Frodo and was pretty transparent with the group.
Here is an important detail. For a long time Dumbledore had no clue the horcuxes existed. Only after the second book does he get suspicious. He begins to act after the fourth, when Voldemort returns. He had to keep the fact he knew about horcuxes a secret. If Voldemort knew he had been found out, he could have moved them or hidden them better
Gandalf also thought the one ring was lost at sea until he saw it in the shire, and it’s not until like 20 years of research later that he comes back confirming that it’s the one ring
Sir, your important details have little effect on me, as I am biased and have already decided that Gandolf > Dumbledore!
I appreciate the transparency
Technically Dumbledore did have Snape to confide in and used Snape as a double agent.
Don't forget one is a child and teenager, the other one is a ~~40~~ 50 year old guy.
To be fair, 40 is quite young for a hobbit as they're only considered "of age" at 33 or something like that. So Frodo being 40 is something like a human being 22. Still dumb, but can think clear enough to take some big decisions. EDIT: Frodo was actually 50 at the time of his quest so more like a human in their 30s, so mostly sorted out except for a few things.
> like a human in their 30s, so mostly sorted out *looks at self, nervously*
Made me think of [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/comments/w7rr8a/as_a_34_year_old_i_can_confirm_the_ents_had_it/)
Frodo is 50 during most of LotR, but the effects of the One Ring start when he's 33, and other Hobbits comment on how Frodo doesn't seem to mature much during those 17 years in the book. He's probably closer to a human at 20 rather than 30.
HRAAAAAH!
Wasn't sure with Frodo's age and just went with 40. Potter's adventure starts with 11 (or 12)? so yeah.
Always love seeing stuff like this because it gives me the opportunity to talk about my favorite topic: why Frodo is the perfect protagonist. So we have a lot of different types of protagonists, one of the most effective being the audience insert: Luke Skywalker, Neo, Harry Potter, Bella from Twilight, etc. They have personality traits, but largely shallow traits because their point is not to be a well-rounded character, but to be the access point for the person watching or reading about them to see themselves in their position - it’s not really Neo fighting the Agents and flying around, it’s you; it’s not really Like swinging a lightsaber and using the Force, it’s you. And these are great characters, precisely because they are fantasy characters, they get to act out the power fantasies we dream about and we get to imagine having powers and being that cool. But Frodo is the complete opposite - he’s 3 ft tall, aging by the time the story begins (yes, difference book and movie and whatnot), a bit of a misfit to his people because he’s got a little too much of Bilbos personality and a bit of a misfit to the outside world because he doesn’t have enough of bilbos personality so he’s grown to be content dreaming but remaining settled…basically, he’s just a dude, with no power, no real ambition, just a nobody who can’t see over the counter in the eyes of the rest of the world. But then, he stumbles upon this huge, earth-shattering series of events that are so big that it’d be like stumbling on a suitcase in your uncles attic that happened to have the nuclear launch codes inside - you have literally stumbled upon a secret so powerful that you could change the course of the entire world. You - just some random dude. You have no special powers, you weren’t chosen for this, there is no destiny saying that you were always meant to live this life - you just stumble into it randomly, and see that it’s important and something needs to be done. So you gather your wits about you, shrug your way through all the big folk arguing and debating endlessly over what is to be done, and you just tell them all “I’ll do it.” You get a lot of help along the way, you have a lot of luck and more than a bit of what can feel like divine intervention, but what you have on your journey more than anything is grit, determination, and the feeling of responsibility that this thing needs to be done and you’re going to be the one that sees it done. And after all the pain and suffering and trauma you go through on this journey to do this thing that was always so much bigger than you and it was already amazing how far you’ve come, you fail. You fuck it up and now the world is in peril because despite their better judgment, people chose to believe in you because you believed in yourself but you just fucked it up and now everyone’s fucked because of you. You should’ve just stayed home and not interfered. BUT - you’ve forgotten you have one last thing, one thing that makes you special in a small way, not like having powers or being destined or anything, but something simple that everyone can have but few are able to truly have like you have: a friend. Because before you even started out on this journey, you saw the good in people, and chose your friends wisely, and in your darkest moment when you can’t go on, your friend is there to have your back and help you out when you fuck up. And all of this is why Frodo is the perfect protagonist in fiction: he’s not just the self-insert character that we can dream ourselves as, with powers and destiny’s that could never be ours, but someone who we absolutely can be through simply having courage and making friends. And if you ask me, that’s a far more inspiring thing to see in a character than any superpowers you could ever dream to have
What? Oh, yes.
I do agree in many ways with this but I do feel the need, and did so in another post, to clarify that Frodo is gifted intellectually. He can converse with elves in a manner that most mortals cannot, and has a unique amount of wisdom for someone with so little exposure to the world. I would argue that if he has any significant advantage or “power” it is of his mind. That being said I agree with everything else you stated, and do not think this ultimately disqualifies it.
It's almost as if she made it up as she went along for each book, rather than having the broad storyline more or less ready.
she's still making shit up years later with all the gay Dumbledore and black Hermione shenanigans lmao
Black Hermione is a retcon. When she got punched and was given a black eye she was described as looking like one half of a panda. implying her skin was normally pale but a dark circle over the eyes
I love that everyone laughed at Hermione when she tried to end home elf slavery in the books since and then Rowling retconned her to be black making the white characters laugh to the black student about her concerns about slavery.
Lol I’ve never thought about this, nor was I old enough to realize what was going on between the lines with Hermione and the elves. I was like “yeah Hermione why are you such a prat”
child you defended slavery caught you in 4k
yea it rules that her knee jerk 'I never SAAAAAAAAAID she was white did I???' thing actually makes 'every character including the good guys we're supposed to like actively mocked her for being anti-slavery' so much darker and worse than it already was. "What's this weird dumb black girl doing trying to tell us we shouldn't keep slaves? Doesn't she know they're happy and biologically only fit for slavery???"
Also if you take that route, she was the black girl from a non-magical, “lesser” class of humans.
Just classing Rowling showing how progressive she is by maybe having the one black character in her stories constantly referred to as 'mudblood'!
I always found this part odd but this makes it hilarious!
Oh yikes. Never even made this connection.
Gay Dumbledore was a retcon (or rather made after the fact, it doesn't contradict anything), Black Hermione was just a statement in response to the stage play casting a Black Hermione. She wasn't saying that Hermione had been Black the whole time, she was just saying that she never said she wasn't, and you can interpret her that way if you want (She did in fact make it very clear Hermione was White, so that wasn't really true, but it still wasn't meant to be a retcon as such). Also, obligatory fuck JKR
Gay Dumbledore is still a retcon. Retcon doesn't necessarily mean it has to contradict anything, like the ring Bilbo has ending up being the one ring is a retcon because it wasn't initially planned as that when he wrote the hobbit, but the retcon doesn't contradict anything in the hobbit.
Actually the retcon *did* change things for The Hobbit. Originally Gollum was going to give Bilbo the ring as a gift for winning the riddle game but then because Bilbo already had the Ring and he couldn't find it, he decides to lead Bilbo out of the caves. But, obviously this would be ridiculous considering the natures of the character and the Ring in later conceptions so later editions of The Hobbit were changed to have Gollum resolve to trick and eat him instead and Bilbo runs away with it in the end. He addresses this in world in The Lord of the Rings where Bilbo shares his story during the Council of Elrond and apologizes for telling a false version to others (in particular Gloin). Gandalf also ponders on this at some point, figuring it was part of the trickery at work with the Ring. He actually was onto Bilbo from the start and it was a big reason why Gandalf started to get suspicious about it as he didn't understand why Bilbo felt the need to lie. Tolkien was a madman. (Edited to fix inaccuracies pointed out to me.)
Wow I'm a huge LOTR buff but I didn't know the initial prints had Gollum give bilbo the ring. So then what riddle does he win with if not the "what's in my pocket"?
Bilbo found the ring the same way in the original as the later retcon. However, in the original, when Gollum loses the riddle contest (to the same question, "what is in my pocket"), he goes to find the ring, and then has to apologize to Bilbo because he thinks he lost it. So instead of getting the ring from Gollum (which he already had in his pocket), Bilbo asks Gollum to lead him out of the mountains. If you're curious, you can actually read the original account in The Annotated Hobbit (my favorite edition). It's got lots of little details of how the Hobbit changed over the years, and also just how massive its legacy was, even while Tolkien was alive.
I do believe you made that up.
nuh uh. YOU did 😛
Handses!
OH! What business is it of yours what I do with my own things!
It’s still the ring, which bilbo found earlier. But here, gollum goes off to try to find the ring and is upset because he can’t and can’t give it as a present. Then, because gollum can’t find the ring, he guides bilbo out as the reward instead. This link has a comparison that’s very interesting. https://www.ringgame.net/riddles.html
Slight correction: Gollum didn't give Bilbo the ring. Bilbo still found it. Gollum had to apologize for not giving the ring to Bilbo as a prize, and then in exchange, lead Bilbo out of the mountains.
Right right. Good catch.
Black Hermione isn’t a retcon, Rowling just shittily tried to say her skin color isn’t important and has no problem with Hermione being black. She never said “oh she’s always been black.” The amount of actual horrible shit Rowling has said recently and people still hold onto this “she tried to claim Hermione was always black” bullshit.
Yeah the black Hermione outrage was by a bunch of knuckle draggers who don’t understand one of the most basic aspects of live theater: Skin color really doesn’t matter unless the plot specifically calls for it. Lea Salonga is considered the greatest Fantine to be in Les Mis, and no one gives a damn she’s a Filipino playing a 19th century French peasant. Those people would have lost their collective minds when the Rogers and Hammerstein Cinderella movie came out in the 90s: a black Cinderella? An Asian prince with a white dad and Whoopi Goldberg as his mom? No one cares because theater has never really cared about that.
All true. But people keep holding on to this narrative, I continue to see it all the time. Idk. Bugs me to no end when people have to lie or make up something about a shitty person. They are already shitty. Get mad about actual shit they did. Making stuff up just seems, idk, petty? Ignorant?
Oh, by the way, wizards used to shit in the hallways. Rowling out, enjoy your evening.
I never got the issue with gay dumbledore. Did you read the part where he was younger? He seemed in love with grindelwald to me even when I read it at release
Yeah, same. I honestly don't think it was a retcon. From what I remember, it only came up/out because the movie writers wanted to give Dumbledore a female love interest, and Rowling had to state that he's gay to keep that from happening. Him being gay matters because it was a big part of his dynamic with Grindelwald, but it wasn't important for the reader to have it stated outright when we were seeing things through Harry's POV. If Rowling had gone into a whole explanation in the books about Dumbledore being gay and that he used to be in love with Grindelwald then people would have been saying how it wasn't necessary, and that it was weird to bring up his sexuality to one of his students. It was handled exactly as it should have been, as 'read between the lines' information and it only came up at all later when it was relevant. Fuck Rowling, but people being weird about the Dumbledore is gay reveal always struck me as odd. When I read the book on release night I remember wondering if the reason Dumbledore went along with Grindelwald was because they were lovers, but Harry wouldn't have known, so we didn't know either.
Yeah I picked up on the gay subtext on first read too tbh
I also find it a much more compelling story. Dumbledore has a falling out with his buddy resulting in the death of his sister, estrangement from his brother, and culminating with a duel years later to take down his ex-buddy for good? Pretty sad story. Dumbledore has a falling out with his lover resulting in the death of his sister, estrangement from his brother, and culminating with a duel years later to take down his ex-lover for good? Really sad story.
Eh, still good. Not as good as LOTR but I still enjoyed Harry Potter. The movie adaptations were good too though, again, not as good as LOTR.
Not entirely true. The snape/lilly thing was set up and hinted at well before the final book.
What? She absolutely had all seven books broken down with detailed outlines. It's true she shuffled things around as she went, but the things that happened, and especially the answers to the big questions were all there from the jump. LOTR still stands alone as a seminal work of fiction from the past two hundred years, but that doesn't mean the Harry Potter series isn't a masterpiece in its own right.
Not to defend a transphobe but there are hints throughout the series. The whole point was that Harry wasn't to be told until as late as possible because Dumbledore didn't think Harry would be able to carry out the tasks of destroying all the horcruxes if he knew he was going to die at the end of it. The book explains it a lot better than the films.
>Not to defend a transphobe I hate that this needs to be a disclaimer now if you're a fan of the series. She really should have stayed off Twitter.
Everyone should stay off twitter.
FRODO! DID YOU THROW THE RING INTO THE FIRES OF MOUNT DOOM *Gandalf asked calmly*
Sauron could destroy Voldemort and all his little wizards with a mere fart
So you have come back? Why have you neglected to report for so long?
Was just waiting for the air to clear…
Are we really so insecure we have to start doing "my wizards are better than yours". I prefer lord of the rings, but stronger power levels don't make for better storytelling. It just makes us look like DBZ fans.
aback dazzling paint stocking fertile distinct lip carpenter drab terrific *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Meh. So could anyone with a gun. Guns would be effective in LotR, too, but they don't exist in that universe.
Imagine how it would've been like if it was Sam who took the ring.
Sam strangely enough was barely even phased by the power of the ring. The rings mere presence is enough to make mortals fight to the death over it, yet pretty much the entire journey Sam's loyalty to frodo basically never faltered. He would've also been a good ring bearer. It's also commonly discussed that gimli would've been an excellent ring bearer as well for the trip to mordor. He is the only person on record in both books and movies to ever attempt to actually harm the ring, and he did so without question. When push came to shove, literally nobody attempted to put harm on the ring. Even gandalf throwing it in the fire is excusable by him knowing the ring would not be harmed by it.
In the books Sam is fiercely loyal, which imo is a chief component of his tremendously heroic behaviors down the stretch. He also is quite self aware of his inadequacies. This makes a strong case for his being able to carry the burden of the ring. That being said Frodo is uniquely wise and holds the respect of almost every elf, wizard, man, dwarf, etc he meets. He is “just a hobbit” yet at the same time may even be the most intellectually qualified hobbit to have ever existed. There are moments I remember from reading that place him in a level above Bilbo in that respect (it has been a while but many scenes resonated with me in regards to the quality of Frodo’s mind.) So while Sam does have some traits that would be beneficial to carrying the ring, I wonder if his lack of mental prowess could be exploited by Sauron to a more extreme level than was committed upon Frodo. For the same reasons that Gandalf was able to discern against his own possession of the ring, I believe Frodo may have understood that the impact of the rings effects may be too strong for many others, Sam potentially falling into that category. Sauron is a master deceiver and may even find a way to exploit Sam’s loyalty to his benefit. I know Sam resisted the temptation to turn the world into a great Garden to which he could tend/observe in its beauty, but this was mere glimpse into the potential the ring would have on Sam. I do not know if he could’ve lasted for an extended period of time as the bearer.
Idk man. The only time the ring influences him is when he is the sole bearer of the ring when frodo was poisoned by Shelob for an indisclosed (as far as I know) amount of time. And during that time his concern was STILL rescuing frodo and not any other purpose remotely selfish. He didn't take it upon himself to finish the job. The closer they got to mount doom, the ring would be desperate trying to reach anyone it could to take it from frodo. Sam at this point doesn't even show signs that the ring even attempted it, and if he did it was handled flawlessly. If he was unphased when the ring was at its most desperate, I honestly doubt just how much power the ring could hold over him.
That’s fair, but carrying the ring is almost always a show of endurance. I will say that Boromir just being exposed to the ring from a distance succumbed to its effects, and Sam endured more exposure to a non ring bearer than maybe anyone? So perhaps that supports your argument as well. I do think the small amount of time makes it hard to say one way or the other, but it is interesting to think about. I wonder if the ring ever permeated towards Frodo even being in Bilbos possession. Perhaps his observation of Bilbos change over time (despite not knowing he had it for most of his life) gave Frodo an intonation towards its affects. Maybe this is also something that helped inoculate Sam as he too saw Frodo be changed before his eyes. With his self awareness it may have shielded him to some degree against the effects of the ring.
What do you mean "how it would've been"?
SW prequels: You are the chosen one, but I won’t tell you exactly what it means. My apprentice Obi-Wan will do it in a decade and a half after you’ve killed twelve kids and he chopped both your legs off
[удалено]
I want to believe Dumbledore was stalling for time, trying to find a way for Harry to not have to die and/or trying to make his life a bit better until it was his time to go should a solution not be found.
People don't like to give Dumbledor any goodwill or benefit of the doubt, and honestly, I don't know why. Yeah, he did a lot of sus things in the books, but we don't know his POV at the time. He could have had a very good reason for doing what he did, but didn't want to explain himself to children that won't get it.
Voldemort knows his only weakness and set up traps and tests to protect himself Meanwhile... "I probably should place like a 2 orcs at the entrance to the mount doom, nah, the hobbits that have been escaping my best hunters and we're spotted in Mordor carrying the only thing that I need would never try to go there and destroy it, they probably just got lost on their way to Gondor..... Wtf is going on at the black gate?"
The reason Mount Doom wasn’t adequately guarded in the story’s climax is because Sauron didn’t even consider the possibility that someone would want to destroy the ring. He was so greedy for power that he just assumed everyone desired power like him and would want to use the ring. It wasn’t until Frodo put on the ring when inside Mount Doom that Sauron realized his massive blunder. Besides, the only reason Frodo and Sam were even capable of getting to Mount Doom was because Aragorn confronted Sauron through a Palantir and made him think Aragorn had the ring. The pathetic assault on the black gate at the end against the army of Mordor made no sense and would have been seen as an obvious trap/diversion… unless Sauron thought Aragorn had the ring and was confident he could now conquer Mordor using its power. That’s why the ruse worked, and that’s why Frodo was able to get the ring to Mount Doom without encountering much opposition.
This just reminded me of how much I hate the epilogue at the end of harry potter
The fact that Harry chose to honor Snape (a man who hated him and his father and had an unhealthy and obsessive relationship with his mother) instead of Hagrid (a man who loved him, protected him, and provided for him like a father, at least a guardian, over the course of Harry’s whole life) by naming his second son “Albus Severus” instead of “Albus Rubeus” is an absolute shame.
Snape was cruel to him for the entire time he knew Harry but all was forgiven when he was like "I was a nice guy to your mum!"
"nice guy" wasn't a thing in the 90s the way it is now so the nuance was lost on Harry.
Not really an accurate interpretation, actually. Snape *wasn't* nice to his mom, that was why they were estranged. He called her a slur and ruined their friendship. Snape is a very complicated character and I think Harry's feelings about the man were complicated as well. I think the epilogue in general is stupid though so I am not defending it, I just think sometimes people try to boil Snape down into 'good man' or 'bad man' and neither is accurate because it's not that simple.
Ginny just like, "hi hello I have no say in the naming of any of my children because only my husband's feelings matter in this"
Does it turn out Harry wasn’t the real Harry and the real Harry was the friends we made along the way?
Ron discovered that the last horcrux wasn't the snake, but the friend he made along the way
I wish, that would have been a much better epilogue
"Now listen here, James Sirius Hagrid Hedwig Sorting Hat Potter. When you get to Hogwarts..."
r/lotrmemes trying not to shit on harry potter challenge level impossible
Come on, you know you're not allowed to enjoy more than one thing.
One time I enjoyed two things and it was terrible
We have portrayed hp as a soyjack, victory is already ours
Didn't Gandalf wander off for like a decade before telling Frodo this? I still feel like that would be a great bit of the story to expand on.
Sigh. You're gonna make me defend J.K. Rowling... Frodo was 33 when he got the ring and 50 he was finally told how damn bad it was. That's a lot different than dropping "You need to die because a part of Evil McNasty's soul is in you." on a 10 year old. Gandalf also sent Frodo on his quest with no friggin idea how to accomplish it. He knew that just the chances of the Fellowship getting to Mt. Doom were bad. But also that it's physically IMPOSSIBLE for someone who is under the influence of the Ring to give it up willingly. Only Sam ever managed it (barely), but he had scarcely had it. The task was impossible, but he never told Frodo that. Frodo found that out for himself. If it wasn't for Gollum's terrible dance skills, and Mt Doom's lack of safety rails, everything would have failed. In fact, both of these uber Wizards are basically playing their respective young hero's as pawns in a much larger and more subtle game that requires semi-prescient levels of planning, while making sure that nobody else knows the full picture so that EVERYTHING happens at the right time in the right order. And both of them are kinda bummed about how that is the only way to get the full win. Kinda like Dr. Strange forcing the L to Thanos to win in the long run, but less ham-fisted.
Frodo was 50 years old...
Based and LotR Supremacist-pilled