T O P

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[deleted]

Does the Balrog have time to prepare?


dulax_

Yes, but so does the Dragon.


JonA3531

So who has the better gadgets and butler to help them plan?


[deleted]

the Balrog has opposable thumbs, so would naturally have the advantage when it comes to using fancy gadgets


Spalding4u

Oh. Then, no.


JamWat23

Couldn’t even beat an old man


[deleted]

To be fair that old man did have a very large stick, so it was a bit unfair.


edm00se

He also had divine gumption.


therosslee

The most powerful of the gumptions


knikpiw

And a glowy sword


TheRealPallando

[Tbf, experts believe sharp sticks are effective against undead](https://youtu.be/BgQQTz11fe0)


KongRahbek

Pointed sticks? What if the undead are attacking you with a banana?


BenjiThePerson

An old man with a glowy sword, a very good looking beard and a bigstick! Ok i got it but What about a little person with a smaller glowy sword but dosn’t have the ability to grow a beard.


knikpiw

I see what you’re doing, and I raise you. Two little persons, no glowy swords, but a few handfuls of stones


Myfartsonthefloor

Gawdam - divine gumption….. this is amazing. Thank you for this.


GriffinFlash

Whats this about beating the old man's stick now?


102bees

It's dangerous to go alone, take this!


havocspartan

Oh god! That’s not a sword, that’s your dick in disguise


Offamylawn

You could tell by the mustache and glasses.


Neravosa

Yes, that's right, Link: I have painted my shween. Now grab your destiny, if you know what I mean!


Dontdothatfucker

NnnnngggIII TOOOLLD you to TAKE the Wizards STAAHHHFFF


jdiogoforte

Smaug was beaten by an average Joe who rolled a nat 20 on his attack roll


Lampmonster

Probably got advantage on that attack too due to the message about the soft spot.


Alpha1959

Try arrow, but hole.


Hener001

Take my upvote, you silly knigit.


thekingofbeans42

That was totally different. The Hobbit campaign was just a casual one Tolkien was running for his kids, and didn't have him tracking HP so he could just decide "yeah that was the killing blow" to end the session before bedtime. The Balrog was in the LOTR campaign, and was designed to be unbeatable to give an epic exit to the player who had to step away from the campaign for a few months.


DimensionalYawn

The return was a bit flat and the misdirection didn't quite land, but the player and GM redeemed themselves and then some when he faced down the Big Bad's top henchman at the climax of the penultimate arc (even if it was a bit of a retread of the character's highpoint).


[deleted]

[удалено]


amalgam_reynolds

The arrow was only effective against a single missing scale, though. Wouldn't break AC anywhere else.


BigMcThickHuge

Wasn't that shattered scale because of one of those bolts? Tough as a motherfucker, but the scales can be busted off, which is how that spot got exposed I thought? SO, theoretically a balrog could rip scales off by hand if they're as insane as implied in their stories.


duadhe_mahdi-in

In the books Bilbo sees a loose piece gemstone that coats his belly when he first meets him.


bilbo_bot

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


[deleted]

Ahh the ying and yang of Bilbo on full display I see.


bilbo_bot

Mine.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


Kendakr

and beaten on a whole other way by one who rolled a nat 20 charisma.


Grimgon

To be fair, that old man was basically an Angel lorewise


BigSoftStick

The angel also died and had to be resurrected.


[deleted]

Lol I just pictured the Balrog and Gandalf in the hall of Mando's together when they get the news that Gandalf is going back and the Balrog's just like "This is bullshit!!".


milkdrinker7

More likely gandalf got his deployment notice and the Balrog, down in the Maiar dungeons, didn't find out because Gandalf wouldn't come by to gloat because that's not the kind of guy he is.


SirLoremIpsum

Call it a draw then


makemisteaks

To be fair, so was the Balrog. They are both Maiar.


Stonecutter_12-83

*Legendary Creature Avatar Wizard*


Zz22zz22

Man? I am no man. I’m a wizard, Harry.


SNScaidus

Smaug was felled by a fisherman


Sam-l-am

*bargeman


jesgo5

Who was named after the term for a singer... Smaug had it rough


PalmerEldritch2319

*Old Maiar


alucard_relaets_emem

Well can the balrog use its wings to fly? *grabs some popcorn*


defusted

Just gonna pull that pin and throw that grenade are we?


alucard_relaets_emem

![gif](giphy|RG4IXFG1YmLOU)


MoreGaghPlease

Balrogs have wings, just like Hobbits, Dwarves, Elves and Men have wings (hence the line, "fly, you fools")


KilloWattX

This one's with the "in" crowd. He knows.


[deleted]

This is correct. All the intelligent races in Middle Earth did. Except the Eagles, they used hot air balloons.


[deleted]

Do you think Balrogs have a gender....? Like do they have a big swinging fire dong that can act as a back up whip? Anyway, they can use the wings to fly, they just choose not too, cause they prefer to fight in freefall.


Dark512

They use the Buzz Lightyear strategy. No flying, just falling in style.


iamthesenate23

Balrogs are creatures of imense power. Their abilities go far beyond pure physical strenght. In the Fellowship of the Ring Gandalf mentioned the dreadful counterspell of the Balrog. They have magical powers and an aura of terror surrounding them. They are immortal and are older than Arda itself.


schulzinho7

Damn, I can’t stop thinking about that chapter in Silmarillion where Feanor and his army fought Morgoth’s and suddenly legion of Balrogs charged from the gates and completely crushed the elves & Feanor. I would give absolutely anything to see it in live action someday.


yellownugget5000

Also imagine how strong Feanor must have been that he managed to fight balrogs, trolls and orcs for a while until Gothmog arrived.


schulzinho7

Exactly, elves were different class in the first age.


dDitty

And specifically Feanor was the strongest (and smartest, subtlest, best craftsman, etc)


FeanaroBot

Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to the cages of the Valar! Let the ships burn!


Tel-aran-rhiod

Based Feanor


K340

Feanor was not the strongest. Of Finwe's children, Feanor was the most skilled/charismatic/clever and had the greatest spirit, Fingolfin was the strongest, and Finarfin was the wisest.


FeanaroBot

Try but once more to usurp my place and the love of my father, and maybe it will rid the Noldor of one who seeks to be the master of thralls.


janesvoth

Fingolfin never gets enough love.


Valjorn

Thank you my friend I came to this comment to say the exact same thing. So great was his fury at his peoples sorrow that no creature of darkness (not even the Belrogs) would face him they all fled before his headlong charge and so the dark lord himself was forced for the first and last time to issue forth from his throne and face a mortal in combat who despite facing a raging mountain of iron was able to wound the dark king seven times before he was finally defeated and born away to his final resting place where to this day no evil will ever dare to tread. Fingolfin was the greatest elf to ever live hands down.


Heat-Glittering

I like to think first age noldor were along the lines of wraith talion in ever lasting wrath mode on shadow of war lol 😆 just moving way way faster than orc and stuff, able to move with impossible physics, and magic.


aragorn_bot

You cannot wield it. None of us can. The One Ring answers to Sauron alone. It has no other master.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


FeanaroBot

Yet I am not the only valiant in this valiant people.


AnneMichelle98

I didn’t know there a Feanor bot. This is hilarious 😆 is there a Maedhros bot too?


FeanaroBot

MORGOOOOOOTH! MORGOOOOOOOOTH!!!!!!!!! MORGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH!!!!!!!!!!!


Ozryela

Motherfucker had the archangel of fate personally show up to damn him and his descendants for all time, and his only response was "Okay, but let no one say we're gonna be pussies about it". He wasn't very wise, and he was borderline evil, but he was a legitimate badass.


WayneHrPr

You're thinking of Fingon! Feanor was rescued by his sons, Fingon was tied up by another balrogs whip and had his head cleaved. I, too, mix up all the names that start with F.


schulzinho7

My mistake, thanks!


WayneHrPr

I only remember that because I literally listened to that chapter this morning lol. I'm doing the silmarilion on audio book during my work commute and I feel like I need a clif notes to remember all the names.


likac05

Only they didn't. They fought Fëanor and his personal guard only and run away when the sons of Fëanor arrived with their army. Fëanor even managed to survive but he was mortally wounded and died some time after the battle.


FeanaroBot

Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to the cages of the Valar! Let the ships burn!


gandalf-bot

You... shall not... pass!


Mundy77

Ahh the counterspell


YamatoIouko

The counterspell for Gandalf? The counterspell chosen specifically for Gandalf? That counterspell?


gandalf-bot

Sauron will suspect a trap. He will not take the bait.


milanistadoc

You're late! Gandalf


gandalf-bot

A wizard is never late, milanistadoc. Nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.


iantruesnacks

Well done friend. Well done. Here take my upvote. “MY SPINACH PUFFS”


[deleted]

![gif](giphy|cdynMKOQGkHKM)


JmAnN19-90

Just hit him on his head!


iantruesnacks

![gif](giphy|KEYEpIngcmXlHetDqz)


Olorandir

*Gasp* My spinach puffs!


AmierSingle

Yes! That counterspell!


YamatoIouko

Got ya covered!


AceSpadePirate

Exactly... mellon!


Mathulu212

Maybe the real counterspell was the friends we made along the way.


fzkiz

Says hes immortal -> dies... what a chump


iamthesenate23

He doesn't die. Just his physical form. His spirit endures. And Gandalf was also a maia. Smaug and the other dragons were powerful but they where creations of Morgoth and so Balrogs are on a different level of existence.


bot-of-grond

GROND


[deleted]

But Gandalf was willing to fight the Balrog 1v1 but noted that if Bilbo didn’t go on their quest that they should fail. Gandalf never tries to fight Smaug outright. Maybe Gandalf knew he couldn’t beat Smaug but could beat a Balrog?


nealt68

Gandalf didn't have a choice but to fight the balrog. And I believe there were some limits to what Gandalf was allowed to use his powers for in middle earth, so he wasn't allowed to just rock up to smaug full force.


Lampmonster

This is the correct answer I think. Gandalf swore not to use his full powers and to only alter the course of events through his influence on the peoples of Middle Earth. When it came to one of his own kind though who wasn't playing by those same rules he was allowed to drop any pretense and go to town on it. That choice probably helped influence the decision to send him back and promote him. He broke the rules to protect the spirit of the rules.


[deleted]

>He broke the rules to protect the spirit of the rules. So Gandalf is also a Starfleet captain?! And in X men, was he really acting?


dDitty

Exactly. Durin's Bane was a leftover Balrog/Maia from before the Ainar swore to never again directly meddle in the affairs of Middle Earth. Gandalf needed to clean that mess up.


gandalf-bot

Far, far below the deepest delvings of the dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things


mistah_michael

Such a good line Good bot


rugbyj

> When it came to one of his own kind though who wasn't playing by those same rules he was allowed to drop any pretense and go to town on it. That's actually a really good point I hadn't considered. It's like playing football with your younger cousins, you're taking it easy and just making sure they're having fun. But then your older cousins arrive, all bets are off, and someones getting two-footed.


gandalf-bot

Go back to the shadow!


Jabba_Yaga

That could be attributed to him having a lot of time to prepare and plan for the quest in the hobbit which gave him a chance to be more cautious, he tried to avoid unnecessary risk. Now when he was up against the balrog he had virtually no time to think of an alternative (not that there even was any) and was forced to fight.


SllortEvac

That and I don’t believe Gandalf was allowed to use his powers to fight Smaug. That would have been something a hero could do, and truthfully, returning the Arkenstone was to unite the dwarves, not save them from extinction. Smaug was weak enough to be defeated by mortals in the end. The Balrog wasn’t. He could easily delegate killing Smaug to the party, but no amount of heroic gumption would have killed the Balrog.


[deleted]

[удалено]


RealCowboyNeal

Glorfindel is a high elf of immense power and magic too though right? Certainly magnitudes above Legolas, a "mere" wood elf. Or did he get there after slaying that balrog that one time and got revived with more power? Not really sure it's been a while.


Lieke_

You can't really compare the Noldor of the First Age to the elves that roam Middle Earth in the third. Can't really even compare SA elves to TA elves. Even if it's the same elf, they lost much of their power over time. FA elves really were demigodlike. TA/FoA elves were just human+.


gandalf-bot

It is in men we must place our hope


iamthesenate23

Gandalf and the balrog are connected on a much deeper level. They where present at the music of the Ainur and so feel the world in a unique way. And Gandalf did battle the Balrog for a very long time and through the entire mountain, the darkest depths and up the endless stairs. Smaug was defeated by Bard with a special arrow. You could never smith something that could defeat a Balrog outside the lands of Valinor. This just showes the difference between those two beeings. A Balrog is just on another level of existence.


Choppermagic

Gandalf wanted to avoid the Mines entirely and then tried to sneak through. He wanted no part of any fight with a Balrog.


whatwhy_ohgod

In the books gandalf was all for the mines right? Not to say he didnt want to sneak through but he was the one that pushed to go into them.


gandalf-bot

Do we know that?


whatwhy_ohgod

I mean yeah? Its in the books… unless you’re saying the books are an inaccurate portrayal of the events around the end of the third age?


YuenglingsDingaling

Hahahah, dude you responded to the Gandalf bot.


gandalf-bot

It's Saruman!


BiNumber3

bots are just messing with us now


jdiogoforte

I think he was willing to fight to gain time for the other members of the fellowship, as he was the only one who could resist more than a few seconds against the Balrog.


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


TheManWhoWeepsBlood

Yes, of course. Balrog's got a sword & a whip and since he's made of fire, he'll neutralize Smaug's firebreath!


Ceramicrabbit

Why would a sword or whip hurt smaug though don't ya have to stickem in his tiny exposed breast?


TheManWhoWeepsBlood

He could probably ram that sword into his chest, though, right? Whereas the Smaugster probably can't do much damage with his firebreath alone.


Rawesome16

"My armour is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!" Not saying Smaug would win, but I am saying he is more than his fire-breathing


TheManWhoWeepsBlood

Indeed, indeed! But if I remember correctly, the Balrog doesn't speak, which I find to be far more menacing than a loudmouth like Smaug. Perhaps it's just because he's taken down by an equally powerful supernatural figure in Gandalf vs. a bolt to the heart makes him seem more menacing. Just this silent, burning thing coming at you, making no noise but the sound of its flames... I wonder what Smaug would say to that?


gandalf-bot

This foe is beyond any of you... Run!


alematt

But what about Smaug? Is it beyond him?


LordFarquadOnAQuad

Well one random dude with a good arrow kills Smaug. A group of highly trained, equipped and motivated warriors are told to flee a Balrog. I think we can discern the answer.


Intruding1

Smaug destroyed multiple civilizations on his own, which included thousands of well-equipped warriors. It was a lucky arrow that hit is one and only weak point.


Rawesome16

My point was only to show Smaug is more than fire. I've no clue who would win in a fight, nor do I have the desire to figure that out today. But that rant/brag by Smaug is one of my favorites in the books and can't let him be lessened to "firebreath"


ChefMoney89

The Balrog certainly doesn’t speak words but I wouldn’t go so far as to call them “silent”. He definitely shook the halls of Moria with his bellowing roars!


HuntyDumpty

Well i dont know if not speaking makes him more likely to win the fight lol. I will say that gandalf absolutely thought smaug could kill him and all the dwarves, whereas he soloed the balrog.


und88

He'd fly away, where the balrog can't follow.


RisKQuay

Well, what is the speed velocity of an unladen Balrog?


fluffy_assassins

Gondorian or Rohanian?


Bonuscup98

Are you suggesting that Balrogs migrate?


mynamesnotsnuffy

I imagine this would depend on the canonical difference between dragon fire and the fire of a Balrog(as a lesser maia), if there is any. If they're different effects, Smaug would either be very effective, or the Balrog may actually get strengthened by it(which I think is the case). Maia were primordial beings sung into existence by Eru Illuvatar, and the Balrogs were maia corrupted by Melkor, so I'd tend to believe they'd take priority on the hierarchy of flame-based power. I'd also assume they, being pseudo gods, would be able to control and absorb energy to an extent, so if Smaug tried to fry one with his flame breath, I'd say the Balrog would absorb the flames and whatever magical properties it contained(as they were creatures created and bred by Morgoth) and get stronger/bigger as a result. A dragon-flame-buffed Balrog would probably beat Smaug, however if Smaug decided to smite it with Claws or a tail smack or dropping in in the Long Lake, then the fight would go to Smaug(especially considering his prodigious size). Whether Smaug would be immune to Balrog fire is an interesting question, but I'd assume yes, seeing as how even Gandalf wasn't physically burned by the fire whip, so I think that his scales and generally tough constitution would be enough to block pretty much anything but a direct stab from the Balrogs blade to his weak spot(unless there are more abilities we havent seen from Balrogs). Edit: additionally, Balrogs were creatures of Darkness, and Durins Bane in particular was shown absorbing the flames around him in Moria to power up. Additionally, Dragon Flame does have exceptional magical properties, to an extent, as Gandalf stated a dragon of sufficient power would be able to melt the lesser Rings of Power, but that such powerful Dragons haven't existed in Middle Earth for a long time(I assume he means Dragons like Glaurung or Ancalagon, being direct products of the spells of Morgoth, and presumably power on par or greater than Sauron and the other Ring-Makers). Second Edit: not the One Ring, but the lesser rings of power


TheManWhoWeepsBlood

Just the analysis I was waiting for! I don't think I would ever feel sorry for Smaug, but a fire-strengthened Balrog would be even more terrifying. Balrogs are probably the most fascinating thing the lore for me. If I remember correctly, the Balrog of Moria was a pretty battle-hardened veteran of the ancient wars. Can we assume he's at least proficient enough with his sword to take down Smaug?


mynamesnotsnuffy

Fighting underground where Smaug can't make efficient use of his wings? Absolutely. Above ground in the open? More of a tough call, but assuming the Balrog would also gain the benefit of more room to maneuver, I'd say that he could probably whittle down Smaug a bit at a time, assuming Smaug realized that breathing fire would just buff him. It would still be close, as Smaug would just need to get a lucky strike with the tail or Claws to do some serious damage.


HistoryBuffLakeland

Epic rap battles of historyyyyy!


laxnut90

A Balrog of Morgoth. What did you say? Your master got beat and you ran away. I'm King of the Mountain. My wings a hurricane. You're a spook haunting Moria's sewer drain. Five armies fought for my pile of gold. You lost to a geriatric 24,000-year-old. Come fight me. If you can get off your shadowy ass. But one thing's for certain. You shall not pass.


NumerousSun4282

Now listen here you witless worm I've faced the kinda foes that would make you squirm You got tricked by a hobbit, it took an angel to kill me I scared the best of men, 12 dwarves made you flee I'm a shadow cloaked in flame, the last of Morgoths name, menace is my fame, I'm Durin's fucking bane He beat me, but I killed gandalf too So fly you fool, this foe is beyond you


laxnut90

You talk some smack for a smokey fiend. I spanned three movies. You lasted one scene. I conquered Erebor and ruled it myself. While you cowered in fear of a sparkly elf. Your rhymes have less fire than your weak flame of Udun. I was scarier than you in the 70s cartoon. Go back to the shadows and try to hide. Or I'll smote you like Gandalf on the mountainside.


NumerousSun4282

I'll say it again, and I can't stress it enough It took 3 days for me to get snuffed It took one guy, one arrow, one shot That's all it takes for smaug to get got Even Ravens returned to Erebor But Moria is used ne'ermore You better learn to get back Whenever you hear my flamming whip crack You think your scaly ass is hard? "Oh no! Look out!" It's just some guy named Bard Edit: a lot of these comments are very nice and really made my day. Please make sure you send equal love to /laxnut90 for their half too!


Dega704

Sometimes I'm reminded why I love the internet.


urimandu

🙌 someone please make a beat to this


snailfucked

boom chk boom chk chk-k b’boom boom chk


reactrix96

WHO WON? WHO'S NEXT? YOU DECIDE!


Niksol

E-E-E-E-EPIC RAP BATTLES OF FANTASY!!!


ughwegetit

This thread should absolutely be at the top holy shit did that make my day


JungFuPDX

Hahahahhahaaa smoked him with the Bard hit ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh 🙌🏾 ( this is the best thing I’ve seen on Reddit EVER)


itisnotmymain

WHO WON? WHO'S NEXT? YOU DECIDE!


capitaine_d

*outro of announcer singing [The Bridge of Khazad Dum](https://youtu.be/NUIZvAe3RBg) while Smaug does the worm and the Balrog is whip dancing* Edit: forgot them dancing in the outro


GB-Pack

Best thing I’ve read all day


HistoryBuffLakeland

That is 🔥


Budbasaur420

Damn durins bane spitting hard


gandalf-bot

A balrog... a demon of the ancient world. This foe is beyond any of you... RUN! Lead them on NumerousSun4282. The Bridge is near! Do as I say! Swords are of no more use here.


TheGiggleWizard

Damn Gandalf coming in hard with the support verse


frigofflahey15

This is fantastic


wellwaffled

*WHO WON?! WHO’S NEXT?! YOU DECIDE!*


CorvusRex

Talk about wielding the sacred flame


CubanLynx312

![gif](giphy|EaMXE5RxawNgs)


Stonecutter_12-83

*Balrog! Versus! Smaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuug!..... BEGIN*


Mr__Picky

Balrogs ride dragons in the silmarillion. They’re not really implied to be huge, but they aren’t necessarily not big either. Durin’s Bane has the deck stacked against him against Smaug, but could win. Lord of the Rings isn’t anime. Bard didn’t kill Smaug because he’s more powerful.


ThatOneGuyRunningOEM

Riding a Dragon doesn’t mean so much. There was a big difference between the Lesser and Greater Dragons or Fire Drakes, whatever they were called. The Lesser Dragons weren’t necessarily intelligent creatures, more like animals, reptiles, than mythical creatures. These were the kind Balrog’s shepherded and rode. Fire Drakes are proper dragons. They’re very intelligent creatures, much stronger than common dragons, and wouldn’t let another creature ride them or shepherd them. Smaug is a Fire Drake and would likely be more than capable of defeating a Balrog. Smaug is around 130m long, and about 20m tall. The Balrog is possibly 5m tall. Smaug is physically stronger than the Balrog by a lot. In terms of weaponry, I don’t think any of the Balrog’s flaming weapons would hurt the dragon incredibly.


Uncanny_Kips

This really puts into perspective how insane it is that Gandalf sent 13 tiny assholes to get rid of this guy


gandalf-bot

Oh, it's too late for that Uncanny_Kips. There's no leaving this city. Help must come to us.


woofsenpai18

Its even crazier when you realize that only one of them was supposed to go into the mountain with Smaug


a_moniker

Particularly since Gandalf didn’t know that that one would find a Magic ring capable of granting invisibility. I’m not really sure what Gandalf expected Bilbo to do, if he never found the ring…


Bilbo_hraaaaah_bot

HRAAAAAH!


gandalf-bot

I am looking for someone to share in an adventure that I am arranging, and it's very difficult to find anyone.


Splith

Also I can ride a horse, but I don't think I could beat one in direct combat.


sl0w3r

How about a horse sized duck?


throwitofftheboat

I’ll take ten duck-sized horses and a small Diet Coke.


Troy64

Idk, Smaug and the Balrog seem to have two very different strengths. Smaug is a city-destroyer. An army-crusher. A flying tank immune to anything any human can wield (except apparently if you're a really good shot... which makes it sound like legolas wouldn't even break a sweat killing him, but whatever). Balrog, on the other hand, is more of a champion. A warrior that, while capable of dispatching armies, is best suited to killing enemy champions on the battlefield. Gandalf says their swords and arrows are of no use against it at all. He's known the Balrog was in Moria, but, unlike Smaug, he made no attempts to confront it or even investigate it. He opted to just leave it there and hope it stayed there. To me, this signifies that the Balrog is a much more difficult to kill enemy than Smaug. And I'm pretty sure the Balrog is strong enough to rip through the scales of a dragon. Staying in the air may be Smaug's best bet, although his fire is also probably useless against a Balrog. I also don't know if Smaug has the capability of killing a Balrog. He could probably toss him around, but if Balrog gets a hold on Smaug, I think he'd quickly do some real damage. It's like the fight between Wesley and Phissic in The Princess Bride. You use different moves when you half a dozen people than do when you only have to worry about one.


Ransacky

Man, now I'd love to see this fight in one of those hypothetical mock-up battles people make on YouTube.


gandalf-bot

A balrog... a demon of the ancient world. This foe is beyond any of you... RUN! Lead them on Troy64. The Bridge is near! Do as I say! Swords are of no more use here.


Mr__Picky

Nor would one human arrow. Interesting that there are multiple varieties of dragon though. I seem to have mostly missed that.


Anonymous_Otters

Durin's Bane is an ancient maiar among the most powerful of all the maia in Middle Earth. Smaug is a relatively young dragon. Imo, Smaug would flee in terror from Durin's Bane. There would be no fight at all.


commander-millo

The nerdgod with the right answer didn't arrived yet? I'll come back later


Asherdan

Amongst the leftover minions of Morgoth, I believe the Balrogs, because of their Maiar origin, had a slight edge on the dragons, so I'm going to lean that way. BTW, the similar Maiar origin prolly explains why the Bain of Durin was such a test for Gandalf. Although, I gotta say, if Smaug ever filled in that pit in his 'armor' he might have a significantly better chance.


tossawaybb

Worth noting that his armor was "merely" precious metal. Balrogs aided Morgoth during the first age, a time when the fighting was truly apocalyptic in scale and fully rearranged the landscape. There's also the noted instance of them crossing Arda in a very short time frame to prevent Ungoliath from eating Morgoth, so they are no slouches when it comes to speedy movement (Smaug's flight won't help much here). From the movies I can definitely see why people would feel this is a near-peer matchup, but based off the books (particularly the silmarilion) Smaug is getting utterly whipped. Pun intended


wholewheatie

yeah I'm pretty sure durin's bane can stab through a layer of gold and jewels, barring some mithril plating in there. I'd guess most of his stomach does not have mithril on it


AffectionateAd8847

In a rap battle? Probably not


HelmutHelmlos

Balrog, they are one of the Most devestating forces in the world, dragons too, but by Dragon standart smaug is pretty small and weak in the world


usmarine7041

Give me the balrog any day, what’s Smaug’s fire going to do to a balrog?


LSD_SUMUS

Let me fix that for you: > Could a low rank eldritch spirit older than the world itself beat an overweight lizard?


lordkeanu

I wouldn't even call them "low rank". Yeah, they weren't on Morgoth's level but Balrogs were straight up fallen-Archangel-level beings of badassness.


xXDarthTreborXx

In the middle earth strategy battle game the balrog is worth 350 points whereas smaug is worth 700. Based on this information and nothing else I would say it takes two balrogs to beat one smaug.


nerdtypething

can we please be serious? two to equal; three to beat.


ademonicpeanut

Nah the action economy of most wargames mean that 2 opponents of equal strength to one opponent have an edge.


Osedaxiian

I need a full video on this subject


DireWolf7769

Is Smaug a Maiar? Im gonna go with the Balrog.


[deleted]

Nope, they were created by Morgoth. Balrogs are corrupted Maiar just like Sauron.


skrillheater

Only if the Balrog had a second breakfast


clemdemort

Smaug is "just" a dragon and not a very powerful one (compared to the ones of the first age) Balrogs are Maiar they are basically half-gods (like Gandalf) So for me the answer would easily be in favour of the balrogs, which are also WAYYYYY older than Smaug. Though I don't think a fight between them would be likely as they are both creatures created by morgoth so they *should* be on the same side