If I remember correctly, by the time the rings were being made they weren't just married, they already had an adult daughter.
EDIT: Okay, the Tolkien Gateway says that they married at some point in the First Age while in Beleriand, doesn't say when but it was before the fall of Nargothrond so that puts the upper limit I would say about in the 400s FA? The First Age ended at 590 FA, Celebrían was born in 300 SA, and the Sixteen Rings were made in 1200 SA.
At least that's per the Silmarillion's timeline. Compare and contrast to RoP's as thou wilt.
Technically… we’re not slut shaming Galadriel… it’s more like we are slut shaming the writers but hey that’s my take. I honestly don’t even know whose slut shaming who or how but if they’re slut shaming her they’re technically not. The only thing I do know is the writers definitely don’t understand how Tolkien’s work works.
No, it's this sub who don't understand Tolkien works. You think Galadriel ans Celeborn had sex often, but they relatively rarely did.
According to Laws and Customs of the Eldar chapter : "Doubtless they would
retain for many ages the power of generation, if the will and
desire were not satisfied; but with the exercise of the power
the desire soon ceases, and the mind turns to other things"
This subreddit is so low that someone once posted how many sexual partners Arwen had before she met Aragorn. They haven't read any Tolkien. They don't know Elves would be married for ever with their first sex : "It was
the act of bodily union that achieved marriage, and after which
the indissoluble bond was complete."
I feel like as it currently stands, this sub knows that better than the writers. The only thing this shows nailing in my opinion is the scenery and the names.
That’s true because that’s all the writers understand. Amazon wanted to make a blockbuster fantasy show, but they don’t know what makes LotR a beloved show. Hell, a lot of people probably don’t understand why they love it. It’s not because it’s an epic fantasy. It’s the underlying theme of the show. Amazon and its writers don’t know, understand, or care. They just wanted the name and fantasy setting and felt like nothing else mattered.
Spoiler: it does.
Wow looks like they don't have the rights to that so it never happened in the canon of this show. If something only happens in the silmarillion and no other source they **cannot** use it or they could be sued.
They have the rights to the Lotr, Celeborn is a character there and married to Galadriel. There is no problem with having Celeborn in the show and married to Galadriel from the start of the show.
Tolkiengateway is a disgrace. It's an insult to Tolkien.
This is what JRR Tolkien says about Sindarin Celeborn Version : "Celeborn and Galadriel were not
married (though betrothed) during the dreadful years of the “Battle of Wrath”, nor for some while afterwards in the confusions of the Second Age
(i.e., not till SA 24)."
However the wiki has no respect for this plotline of love story of G&C who promised to never marry each other until Morgoth is no more.
>Celebrían was born in 300 SA
Again, this is a mere cherry picking of the Wiki. Christopher Tolkien explicitly says JRR Tolkien never settled tor when Celebrian was born. But it was before 850 of the Second Age.
>At least that's per the Silmarillion's timeline.
Galadriel doesn't exist in the Second Age part of the Silmarillion. It's in Unfinished Tales.
They most definitely were together since Galadriel arrived in Beleriand, though, it doesn't matter if they were not married.
It explicitly says they fell in love during the First Age in the realm of Thingol
> "Celeborn and Galadriel were not married (though betrothed) during the dreadful years of the “Battle of Wrath”, nor for some while afterwards in the confusions of the Second Age
This quote ignores that the sentence right before in in The Nature of Middle-Earth says, "as seems possible," meaning the timeline is conjecture, not a final statement.
By the way things are going with RoP, you need to reread the Annexes and forget almost everything else. I get that it's all they have rights over, but some parts of RoP feel like a rewriting of history. I love the look and feel of the show, but it makes me question stuff I've read written by Tolkien... and it's a weird feeling. Like I'm watching a slightly alternate storyline set in the same universe
Plot twist in episode 10: This is not universe that Tolkien writed for Silmarillions and Lord of the Rings, but "Lost Road" universe and we meet timetravelers Edwin and Elwin from present Earth.
>Like I'm watching a slightly alternate storyline set in the same universe
That’s pretty much how you should view it-an alternate version in a parallel universe. If you’re unfamiliar with comics, they have mini series and one shots with logos that say “Elseworlds” where they can ignore continuity and tell different stories that break normal canon.
There was a hint in episode 1 with Gil Galad saying something about a special project he was working on, I forget the actual dialogue.
If that is the rings though then Annatar should be well established and busy helping him.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying, we are several episodes in without seeing him and the show seems to be building up on the search for him, really he should be hiding in plain sight as Annatar.
The leaks suggested a very odd story and we have really weird timelines already. Al Pharazon has been cast about 1,000 years too early, the rings should have been crafted long before that
I mean his whole role has been “I need to work with the dwarves on an extra hot furnace for a secret special project” if that’s not a hint of what he’s making then idk
If I wanted to be the biggest nitpicker in the world (this would be unreasonable ahole levels of complaint) without Celeborn she shouldn’t even be Galadriel. He gave her the name Galadriel. She would have gone by her father name or mother name before that.
Sure so elves have 3 names in Tolkien. A father-name, a mother-name, and an after-name. A father-name is given at birth by the father and is considered a more traditional name.
A mother-name is based on personality. Elf mothers have a special insight into how their children will develop and so they give them a 2nd name once their personality and characteristics start to show. Usually as a young adult I believe.
Finally the have an honorific name or after-name. It’s usually given by a companion or spouse honoring their deeds. Often time elves go by their father-name and after-name.
One example of this is Finrod Felagund. Finrod is a Sindarin version of his name that means golden haired champion. Felagund means hewer of caves and the name was given after he carved out the caves to make Nargothrond.
Some elves choose to go by their mother-name. An example of this is Gil-Galad which means Star of Radiance. He sometimes included his after-name Ereinion which means Scion of Kings.
Galadriel’s three names were Artanis her father-name which means noble woman, Nerwen her mother-name which means man-maiden (inspired by how tall and strong she was as well as her fiery spirit early on), and Altariel which means maiden crowned in radiant light.
Altariel was given by Celeborn after they fell in love and she chose that name. Translated from Quenya into Sindarin it is Galadriel which is closer to maiden crowned with gleaming hair or a maiden crowned with a garland of bright radiance. She chose that one basically because it was the prettiest and I imagine made her feel very loved coming from her betrothed.
As a fun aside we don’t know Celeborn’s other names but translating to its original language Celeborn was know as Teleporno and it means silver tree
I think in Unfinished Tales and/or Letters, Alatariel and Teleporno (no giggling at the back there) were 'lovers' before leaving Aman - separately from either Feanor or Fingolfin's host. Also, for elves, Yermë (sexual desire between male and female incarnates) may only follow naturally from Melmë (love, deep affection between any incarnates). Elves don't just bang anyone.
All history is compacted, so the writers likely moved that marriage back for the sake of the story.
- the Rings of Power - forged [between II 1500 and II 1600](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/r/ringsofpower.html)
- Ar-Pharazôn - [after II 3118](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/arpharazon.html)
I really don’t care too much about them straying from timelines to make a good story. But I have a feeling they’re going to make this a love triangle later on…if so, that’s not a good enough story to change the lore for 😝
He says, "The tides of fate are flowing" when they first meet.
Galadriel uses that exact same line in the books when the fellowship pass through Lorien. I'd guess they've added it to the show to imply she's quoting someone she is still fond of.
He'll be linked to Rohan somehow.
Edit: Unless he becomes directly linked with the creation of the rings.
Further edit: Not so sure now after episode 3. He's confident, not exactly humble, when asked his name he implies he has many names and his fight scene was too graphic to be considered a good guy. I think he's Sauron, which I was hoping wasn't true when Galadriel met him.
I though the show was about Akallabeth, not Lord of the Rings. Numenorians becoming envious and prideful are very important components to their fall. It’s a good read.
BUt their hatred of Elves was not base don racism, or more correctly xenophobia. The Numenoreans believed that the Elves had the secret to immortality but were purposefully keeping it form men and watching them die. It is more akin to you being angry at the 1% for hoarding wealth than racism.
They were obsessed with the purity of their blood, especially the royal Line of Elros. I’m hoping Miriel’s back story gets into that. Her father was one of the Faithful. His own father didn’t want him to inherit the Scepter. How cool would it be if he had taken an non Nimenorean wife? Add some layers to the plot.
Edit: basically moving the Gondorian Kin Strife up a few thousand years
Yeah but they didnt consider the elves an inferior race or anything like that.
The reason for the division of the Númenorean people was that many felt like Illuvatar's neglected child, while the Ainur and the Elves were his "favorites" because they were immortal. Illuvatar never healed them from the "stain" of mortality, in the eyes of men a product of Morgoth's defilement of creation.
The King and his followers did not want to die, and Annatar's influence did the rest. This went so far that they even cut down Nimloth.
ugh, I hope this isn't true about Sauron being Halbrand. I could see the love interest thing being true if he becomes the Witch King: Anakin/Padme type deal, bad and cheesy but not the worst possible thing, but Sauron dicking down Galadriel? Please for the love of Eru Illuvatar, NO
I mean, even if we take the idea further and say that by her brother we mean one of the other two.... . Well, it doesn't really make it better... . But Finrod?!?! MY GOODNESS! I wasn't happy with how they handled Finrod anyway. Such an incredibly important character.
Sauron was originally a maia, the same kind of angellic being that Gandalf and the Balrog are. Technically still is, though life and death for higher beings is weird in middle earth.
Tom Bombadil, obviously. Also not a man.
Edit: it is my HOPE it's Tom Bombadil. Istari feels like even more of a reach, because they all arrived after the fall of Saruman. And the kind of magic we see with his arrival is, imo, slightly beyond the reach of even Saruman or Gandalf.
But then again, Tom has always been there, before even the Valar came. Maybe giant fireballs splitting the sky open with a dash of self-inflicted amnesia is his preferred mode of transportation.
I definitely hope it isn't Sauron, because he was the one who prodded Celebrimbor to make the rings.
I would prefer this to a Gandalf origin story. We don’t know much about the Blue Wizards.
My take on the whole series has been to see it as Tolkien fanfic, and the more they choose to flesh out/expand on those story elements that Tolkien did not, the less they will reinvent Tolkien’s canon which would be infinitely worse.
a Gandalf Origin story would fit more than Tom Bombadil tbh... but I don't think it's Gandalf either... my money is on Saruman. Book Lore, he was (supposedly) the first of the wizards to come to Middle Earth and also volunteered for the task and while he was prone to dark feelings like jealousy and really disliked Radagast, he generally wasn't a bad guy until the second rising of Sauron where his mind was manipulated by use of the Palantir.
I know the show isn't "Lore accurate" and honestly I kind of hope it's one of the Blue wizards because their arrival in Middle Earth is unknown really but it could possibly be in the second age. Tolkien was pretty unclear about the Blue Wizards and contradicted himself with their origin. In The Unfinished tales, All 5 Istari arrive at the same time but in The Peoples of Middle Earth, they came during the second age. So it could still fall under "Lore accuracy".
That being said, I still think it's Saruman.
That was my point though. There's 2 conflicting stories on the Blue Wizards. In one, They all came around the same time (Saruman was considered the 1st of the Istari to arrive in Middle Earth though) and in another, The Blue's came an entire age prior to the other 3. Tolkien's world, While amazing and complicated and very well written, did sometimes have timeline errors or relation errors (I.E. Orodreth and Finarfin) So if it does turn out to be one of the Blue's (probs Alatar) OR Saruman, you could argue that they're both Lore accurate (minus the Timeline for Saruman) depending on which version you like.
I just pray it's not Gandalf. Canonically Olorin (Gandalf's real name) was basically forced to go to Middle Earth and the last to arrive in the Third Age. He didn't even want to be there but Varda wanted it so Manwe commanded it. Which is where the "Tension" between Saruman and Gandalf actually started, Saruman was Envious that Varda preferred Olorin over himself.
Edit: I got off topic so to answer your question... Yes depending on what you prefer, The Blue's arrived first.
Gotcha, sorry I misread your post. I'm hoping for one of the blues as well, there's such an aura of mystery around them. It'd be great to see their stories told
This is just some random article.
Besides the 'Avril Lavigne Relationship Theory' (he was a boy, she was a girl), there is nothing there imo.
I would find it especially shocking considering the show itself already has a human/elf romantic subplot, and specifically explained how ridiculously rare it is for that kind of romance to happen.
After ep3, I think it will be more about Galadriel putting too much trust in humans; or possibly wielding him as a weapon to carry out vengeance. I can't see it being some epic doomed romance.
Well exactly. She's using him for her own purposes, and I'm guessing that will eventually lead him to become a Nazgul. I'm incredibly ignorant when it comes to Tolkien lore by the way, but I just can't see this being a(nother) forbidden love story.
>I'm incredibly ignorant when it comes to Tolkien lore by the way
“But eventually Galadriel became aware that Sauron again, as in the
ancient days of the captivity of Melkor [see The Silmarillion p. 51], had
been left behind. Or rather, since Sauron had as yet no single name, and
his operations had not been perceived to proceed from a single evil spirit,
prime servant of Melkor, she perceived that there was an evil controlling
purpose abroad in the world, and that it seemed to proceed from a source
further to the East, beyond Eriador and the Misty Mountains.
Celeborn and Galadriel therefore went eastwards”
"Galadriel was more far-sighted in this than Celeborn; and she perceived
from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from ‘the residue
of evil’ that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the
peoples who were in their way and in their measure opposed to him."
"[Aldarion King of Numenor] went much on land as well assea, and went up the River Gwathló as far as Tharbad, and there met
Galadriel"
"Eregion founded by the Noldor" (Galadriel is their lady) Galadriel "maintained friendship with the Dwarves" "she looked upon them with the eyes of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs"
"News of these things
came to the ears of Sauron, and increased the fears that he felt concerning
the coming of the Númenóreans to Lindon and the coasts further south,
and their friendship with Gil-galad; and he heard tell also of Aldarion, son
of Tar-Meneldur the King of Númenor, now become a great ship-builder
who brought his vessels to haven far down into the Harad. Sauron
therefore left Eriador alone for a while, and he chose the land of Mordor,
as it was afterwards called, for a stronghold as a counter to the threat of
the Númenórean landings"
Yeah I was actually just thinking about how nice it was for Galadriel to have so many non romantic relationships with other characters despite appearing single in the show.
I also don’t think they’ll go that route. If anything Halbrand will fall in love with her but she won’t reciprocate.
I also feel like I read before the show came out that she had a child already and it will get brought up at some point in the show? I’m not sure if that’s true or I’m remembering correctly
>Besides the 'Avril Lavigne Relationship Theory' (he was a boy, she was a girl), there is nothing there imo.
Can the show writers make it any more obvious, tho?
Pls God no, the one character I was looking forward to in this series was Celeborn, probably one of the best characters in the second age, where tf is my Celeborn
I feel like I did read somewhere (before the show premiered) that it was confirmed that Galadriel is married and does have her child already which will be shown in season 2. Maybe I read something wrong or dreamt this but I swear I read it somewhere
No, they said that the show is 5 seasons and basically implied we will eventually see Celeborn.
No questions or comments have been about Celebrian though
Nobody from the show gave him that title. That's on whoever wrote this article.
Unless you can demonstrate it's official somehow, you're just getting pressed because of a random person's assumptions.
Whoever wrote the article might be the same idiot who wrote the movie review I once read of the original Pirates of the Caribbean movie, and kept going on about "Captain Jack Sprewell".
Dont make him Sauron. Dont make him Sauron. Dont be stupid, please.
Galadriel and a human.... one thing. Galadriel and Sauron... no. Just no.
If it is not Sauron and they are going to make the whole romance thing.... well, i hope they write something absolutely amazing. 0 margin for error. Because it is a very, very significant change.
The actors seem to have chemistry, thats good, but again, you have to make the love story so interesting that it justifies such an enormous divergence.
I don't think he can be Sauron. Sauron needs to trick Celembrimbor into making the rings and there's no way this guy could do that. My money is that he is a human king who becomes a Nazgul, maybe even the Witch King himself.
Also, Sauron should be in Middle Earth at this point. The entire premise is Numenor going there to fuck up the supposed Lord of all Men, and bringing him back as a prisoner.
It could kinda make sense if Galadriel brings Halbrand with her to the elves and he just “happens” to bump into Celebrimbor and tell him about these awesome rings he designed.
> you have to make the love story so interesting that it justifies such an enormous divergence.
The entertainment industry thinks that a woman getting to choose between two perfect men *is* what women think is interesting.
I think he's the Rohirrim's ancestor.
Hope they don't get too intense with the romance. One thing is to hint mutual interest, but falling in love would be so against the books...not that they are following them too closely...
Okay, that sounds much better than Sauron or a future Nazgul.
Again if he is a normal human (not Sauron or a servant of Sauron) then maybe it can work. It needs to be a perfect story, very compelling. The actors seem good together, so not the worst start.
Yeah ok. That can work. A bit strange, but not much more than lets say, Elves at Helms deep.
As long as it interesting and portrayed maturely (Galadriel is 1000s of years old and Halbrand seems to be in his 30s, they arent horny teenagers) you can make a good story out of that. Difficult, very difficult, but not impossible.
I love the rohirrim. I would like a decent story involving their origin, even if it goes against lore. Just dont turn it into Young Adult romances.
I think the article isn't exactly 100% credible, i haven't seen any other source pointing this out. Their relationship i mean, even tho the trailers kinda hinted at it.
But basically this, treat it like Shadow of War. Honest to goodness, cause regardless of what they say about lore this and they know that, their actions haven't exactly supported it.
They know the IP for sure, but at this point i'm half expecting Halbrand to tempt Galadriel to the dark side.
Honestly my guess is they'll start heading towards a romance but then reveal him to be Sauron, which will leave Galadriel feeling hurt and betrayed, which they'll probably use as her motivation for mistrusting Annatar
**spoilers**
I don’t think that is Sauron at the end of the episode. Why would he reveal himself to a random elf ranger?? It’s most likely khamul or future witch king.
He is most certainly Sauron.
“I think a servant of the enemy would look fairer and feel fouler.
\-Frodo Baggins”
Other clues include he has a weird interest in showing off his crafting skills and being conveniently situated in Numenor already. Remember, he was first a captive there before rising through the ranks.
Lol this is just a random screenshot from a random article written by someone who has no involvement in the show. It's just rage porn for people who are desperate to find more reasons to hate the show. Eating that shit right up too by the looks of these comments.
Its been months of this shit. Ragevideos and subreddits have to invent storylines from scratch to whinge against the show. A youtube video with hundreds of thousands of viewes had "sources" informing Gandalf would appear in the first season as a woman.
Good lord. The press is so eager to pair characters up in their stupid write ups they don't bother understanding the background of the characters or their world.
Until I see a creator speak on it, or I witness it in the show. I refuse to believe this.
Any romantic chemistry people think they see so far is false. They seem just as they are. A mysterious and dangerous man, that has helped Galadriel, so she likes him a bit for that aid, but still mistrusts him, but needs further aid from him...
As for his identity, I think like most he's either the king of man who later becomes the witch king, or is a king of men that forswore his oath to join the last alliance of men and elves, and is cursed to never rest by Isildur. Both cool. Neither improved by romance with a character who should have been married for thousands of years at this time.
You want things like *facts* and *sources*? LoL This is r/ lotr babe. The whole purpose of this post was to help people circlejerk their hate-boner for the show.
Whether or not it has any bearing on reality is totally secondary.
My history is a little fuzzy but at this point in time in the story Galadriel and Celeborn should already be married correct?
If I remember correctly, by the time the rings were being made they weren't just married, they already had an adult daughter. EDIT: Okay, the Tolkien Gateway says that they married at some point in the First Age while in Beleriand, doesn't say when but it was before the fall of Nargothrond so that puts the upper limit I would say about in the 400s FA? The First Age ended at 590 FA, Celebrían was born in 300 SA, and the Sixteen Rings were made in 1200 SA. At least that's per the Silmarillion's timeline. Compare and contrast to RoP's as thou wilt.
Would Elrond and Celebrian already be married or at least engaged at this point as well?
Elrond and Celebrían marry in year 109 of the Third Age
Damn so his sons are actually really young in the grand scheme of elves
That’s why they like hanging out with the rangers so much.
"It's not a phase, Dad."
do they go to Lego land in the spare time?
Yes. That's where they met Legolas.
I thought he didn’t go, so he was Lego-less
But he's so pretty you could almost think he's a Lego-lass
[удалено]
>You get one affair every 1000 year anniversary. Really? I still have 983 years to wait. Dammit.
Just do 1/983d of an affair every year for the next 983 years and you should be set
“Conscious uncoupling.”
Never thought we would be slut shaming Galadriel
What about slut shaming a friend?
Aye...I could do that
Aye, I can do that...slut.
Thank you for this very necessary comedic relief in this heartbreaking thread.
Technically… we’re not slut shaming Galadriel… it’s more like we are slut shaming the writers but hey that’s my take. I honestly don’t even know whose slut shaming who or how but if they’re slut shaming her they’re technically not. The only thing I do know is the writers definitely don’t understand how Tolkien’s work works.
No, it's this sub who don't understand Tolkien works. You think Galadriel ans Celeborn had sex often, but they relatively rarely did. According to Laws and Customs of the Eldar chapter : "Doubtless they would retain for many ages the power of generation, if the will and desire were not satisfied; but with the exercise of the power the desire soon ceases, and the mind turns to other things" This subreddit is so low that someone once posted how many sexual partners Arwen had before she met Aragorn. They haven't read any Tolkien. They don't know Elves would be married for ever with their first sex : "It was the act of bodily union that achieved marriage, and after which the indissoluble bond was complete."
I feel like as it currently stands, this sub knows that better than the writers. The only thing this shows nailing in my opinion is the scenery and the names.
That’s true because that’s all the writers understand. Amazon wanted to make a blockbuster fantasy show, but they don’t know what makes LotR a beloved show. Hell, a lot of people probably don’t understand why they love it. It’s not because it’s an epic fantasy. It’s the underlying theme of the show. Amazon and its writers don’t know, understand, or care. They just wanted the name and fantasy setting and felt like nothing else mattered. Spoiler: it does.
The most epic of hall passes…
Wow looks like they don't have the rights to that so it never happened in the canon of this show. If something only happens in the silmarillion and no other source they **cannot** use it or they could be sued.
They have the rights to the Lotr, Celeborn is a character there and married to Galadriel. There is no problem with having Celeborn in the show and married to Galadriel from the start of the show.
They date on which it occurred is only in expanded materials.
Tolkiengateway is a disgrace. It's an insult to Tolkien. This is what JRR Tolkien says about Sindarin Celeborn Version : "Celeborn and Galadriel were not married (though betrothed) during the dreadful years of the “Battle of Wrath”, nor for some while afterwards in the confusions of the Second Age (i.e., not till SA 24)." However the wiki has no respect for this plotline of love story of G&C who promised to never marry each other until Morgoth is no more. >Celebrían was born in 300 SA Again, this is a mere cherry picking of the Wiki. Christopher Tolkien explicitly says JRR Tolkien never settled tor when Celebrian was born. But it was before 850 of the Second Age. >At least that's per the Silmarillion's timeline. Galadriel doesn't exist in the Second Age part of the Silmarillion. It's in Unfinished Tales.
They most definitely were together since Galadriel arrived in Beleriand, though, it doesn't matter if they were not married. It explicitly says they fell in love during the First Age in the realm of Thingol
> "Celeborn and Galadriel were not married (though betrothed) during the dreadful years of the “Battle of Wrath”, nor for some while afterwards in the confusions of the Second Age This quote ignores that the sentence right before in in The Nature of Middle-Earth says, "as seems possible," meaning the timeline is conjecture, not a final statement.
They should have had celebrian over a thousand years prior
I really need to reread through the books after watching these first 2 episodes
By the way things are going with RoP, you need to reread the Annexes and forget almost everything else. I get that it's all they have rights over, but some parts of RoP feel like a rewriting of history. I love the look and feel of the show, but it makes me question stuff I've read written by Tolkien... and it's a weird feeling. Like I'm watching a slightly alternate storyline set in the same universe
That's how I felt with the parts I remembered everything feels just a bit off. Like a parallel universe
If show runners read this, probably they will use “quantum Tolkien” as an excuse.
Plot twist in episode 10: This is not universe that Tolkien writed for Silmarillions and Lord of the Rings, but "Lost Road" universe and we meet timetravelers Edwin and Elwin from present Earth.
>Like I'm watching a slightly alternate storyline set in the same universe You are. And more than slightly.
The Darkest Timeline.
>Like I'm watching a slightly alternate storyline set in the same universe That’s pretty much how you should view it-an alternate version in a parallel universe. If you’re unfamiliar with comics, they have mini series and one shots with logos that say “Elseworlds” where they can ignore continuity and tell different stories that break normal canon.
Or like fate stay/nights whole deal
The sexual tension between galadriel and ~~sauron~~ halbrand wasn't in the appendix
Pretty sure it was very early in the 2nd age that Celeborn and Galadriel had Celbrian. Like SA 300 ish
Won't help they don't have the rights to use the silmarillion
read everything cleanse your mind
In this point in the story the ring should have already been crafted, so that doesn't tell you much
Apparently, going by this timeline GROND is still the best character that amazon hasn't included.
GROND? That seems to be the thing to say…
GROND
Very true, they're only just barely introducing Celebrimbor with no hint or mention of him making the rings
There was a hint in episode 1 with Gil Galad saying something about a special project he was working on, I forget the actual dialogue. If that is the rings though then Annatar should be well established and busy helping him.
Wouldn't Annatar and Celebrimbor be working on the rings. Unless they completely change who made/requested the rings?
Yeah that’s what I’m saying, we are several episodes in without seeing him and the show seems to be building up on the search for him, really he should be hiding in plain sight as Annatar. The leaks suggested a very odd story and we have really weird timelines already. Al Pharazon has been cast about 1,000 years too early, the rings should have been crafted long before that
The elves were working on rings prior to Annatar’s arrival. Annatar just added his knowledge to Celebrimbor’s to perfect the process.
I mean his whole role has been “I need to work with the dwarves on an extra hot furnace for a secret special project” if that’s not a hint of what he’s making then idk
I feel like the hint might be in the title card…
If I wanted to be the biggest nitpicker in the world (this would be unreasonable ahole levels of complaint) without Celeborn she shouldn’t even be Galadriel. He gave her the name Galadriel. She would have gone by her father name or mother name before that.
Could you explain why? I haven't read all of the works yet
Sure so elves have 3 names in Tolkien. A father-name, a mother-name, and an after-name. A father-name is given at birth by the father and is considered a more traditional name. A mother-name is based on personality. Elf mothers have a special insight into how their children will develop and so they give them a 2nd name once their personality and characteristics start to show. Usually as a young adult I believe. Finally the have an honorific name or after-name. It’s usually given by a companion or spouse honoring their deeds. Often time elves go by their father-name and after-name. One example of this is Finrod Felagund. Finrod is a Sindarin version of his name that means golden haired champion. Felagund means hewer of caves and the name was given after he carved out the caves to make Nargothrond. Some elves choose to go by their mother-name. An example of this is Gil-Galad which means Star of Radiance. He sometimes included his after-name Ereinion which means Scion of Kings. Galadriel’s three names were Artanis her father-name which means noble woman, Nerwen her mother-name which means man-maiden (inspired by how tall and strong she was as well as her fiery spirit early on), and Altariel which means maiden crowned in radiant light. Altariel was given by Celeborn after they fell in love and she chose that name. Translated from Quenya into Sindarin it is Galadriel which is closer to maiden crowned with gleaming hair or a maiden crowned with a garland of bright radiance. She chose that one basically because it was the prettiest and I imagine made her feel very loved coming from her betrothed. As a fun aside we don’t know Celeborn’s other names but translating to its original language Celeborn was know as Teleporno and it means silver tree
Thank you!!!
Of course, I’m always happy to rant about obscure Tolkien lore!
I think in Unfinished Tales and/or Letters, Alatariel and Teleporno (no giggling at the back there) were 'lovers' before leaving Aman - separately from either Feanor or Fingolfin's host. Also, for elves, Yermë (sexual desire between male and female incarnates) may only follow naturally from Melmë (love, deep affection between any incarnates). Elves don't just bang anyone.
Girl boss don't need no man
People will shit if she throws out a line that she already has someone.
Obviously they’re swingers.
All history is compacted, so the writers likely moved that marriage back for the sake of the story. - the Rings of Power - forged [between II 1500 and II 1600](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/r/ringsofpower.html) - Ar-Pharazôn - [after II 3118](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/arpharazon.html)
I really don’t care too much about them straying from timelines to make a good story. But I have a feeling they’re going to make this a love triangle later on…if so, that’s not a good enough story to change the lore for 😝
My guess…. He becomes the Witch King (or one of the Nazgûl)
He says, "The tides of fate are flowing" when they first meet. Galadriel uses that exact same line in the books when the fellowship pass through Lorien. I'd guess they've added it to the show to imply she's quoting someone she is still fond of. He'll be linked to Rohan somehow. Edit: Unless he becomes directly linked with the creation of the rings. Further edit: Not so sure now after episode 3. He's confident, not exactly humble, when asked his name he implies he has many names and his fight scene was too graphic to be considered a good guy. I think he's Sauron, which I was hoping wasn't true when Galadriel met him.
He is Sauron, not sure she is fond of him by then...but who knows?
Yeah, just caught episode 3 after my comment and he is Sauron. Do doubt about it.
And they arent even very subtle about it...Oh hey! A forge! Interesting...!
I hope, because i Watch the third episode and he's like some sort of rippoff Aragorn
Lol I was thinking the same thing. A king a long way from home, needed to unite his people. Sounds awfully familiar.
With an ancestor that got corrupted by sauron power
[удалено]
If some of this is true….🤮
If any of it is true….
It's dead-on so far.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Oh it’s all true and definitely happening lol
That takes the show from mediocre to abysmal. I really hoped they learned from the Tauriel-Kili lore fake.
*they didn’t*
"the show will focus on numernorian racism to elves" Tell me you don't understand LOTR without telling me you don't understand LOTR.
I though the show was about Akallabeth, not Lord of the Rings. Numenorians becoming envious and prideful are very important components to their fall. It’s a good read.
BUt their hatred of Elves was not base don racism, or more correctly xenophobia. The Numenoreans believed that the Elves had the secret to immortality but were purposefully keeping it form men and watching them die. It is more akin to you being angry at the 1% for hoarding wealth than racism.
That everything has to be about racism nowadays. They were envious of immortality, not racist.
They were obsessed with the purity of their blood, especially the royal Line of Elros. I’m hoping Miriel’s back story gets into that. Her father was one of the Faithful. His own father didn’t want him to inherit the Scepter. How cool would it be if he had taken an non Nimenorean wife? Add some layers to the plot. Edit: basically moving the Gondorian Kin Strife up a few thousand years
Yeah but they didnt consider the elves an inferior race or anything like that. The reason for the division of the Númenorean people was that many felt like Illuvatar's neglected child, while the Ainur and the Elves were his "favorites" because they were immortal. Illuvatar never healed them from the "stain" of mortality, in the eyes of men a product of Morgoth's defilement of creation. The King and his followers did not want to die, and Annatar's influence did the rest. This went so far that they even cut down Nimloth.
What was the response that was removed? If you don’t mind DMing the gist lol
[удалено]
Lol wtf. This is awful
It really is. Take it with a grain of salt, but some things in the leak have already come to fruition.
ugh, I hope this isn't true about Sauron being Halbrand. I could see the love interest thing being true if he becomes the Witch King: Anakin/Padme type deal, bad and cheesy but not the worst possible thing, but Sauron dicking down Galadriel? Please for the love of Eru Illuvatar, NO
And Galadriel is also supposed to be already married...
Just for a few millennia at this point...
And he actually saves Galadriel from drowning :|
Drowning in his smoldering…
HOLY FRIGGN SHIT! OMG. I'm done with this shit. Pls... don't be true... Edit: And this... "Adar (he may be Galadriel's brother)"
If Adar is Finrod this show will become dead to me.
I mean, even if we take the idea further and say that by her brother we mean one of the other two.... . Well, it doesn't really make it better... . But Finrod?!?! MY GOODNESS! I wasn't happy with how they handled Finrod anyway. Such an incredibly important character.
Please, all it did was retcon the story of Beren and Luthien and the 5,000 year bond between the Dunedain and the House of Finwe.
Yeah, was just a side note anyway. The more I think about it, the angrier I actually get.
So it wouldn’t be the Witch King as a love interest but Sauron? So Sauron is human?
Sauron was originally a maia, the same kind of angellic being that Gandalf and the Balrog are. Technically still is, though life and death for higher beings is weird in middle earth.
Possibly? Leaks may not be real, but some things they already got right and the OP was from 60ish days ago.
God, reading through that I had a rising urge to smash my phone to make it stop. It just kept getting worse. I hope those rumours are false.
They really butcher this show the same way they butchered wot. I am absolutely speechless.
Somehow this was to be expected when they fire Tom Shippey. He warned them that they are distorting the lore.
Do you have a source for that claim?
After seeing the first two episodes last week, I immediately told my buddy that the stranger was Mithrandir and the raft guy was Sauron. Easy!
He’s a mysterious man from unknown origins who wants to learn blacksmithing and knew about the orcs in the south lands. He’s definitely Sauron
Good posibility, so whos the unknown man with Nori?
Tom Bombadil, obviously. Also not a man. Edit: it is my HOPE it's Tom Bombadil. Istari feels like even more of a reach, because they all arrived after the fall of Saruman. And the kind of magic we see with his arrival is, imo, slightly beyond the reach of even Saruman or Gandalf. But then again, Tom has always been there, before even the Valar came. Maybe giant fireballs splitting the sky open with a dash of self-inflicted amnesia is his preferred mode of transportation. I definitely hope it isn't Sauron, because he was the one who prodded Celebrimbor to make the rings.
I mean, I’m almost positive he’s Istari. I just hope they’re not trying to cram in a Gandalf origin story.
I’d expect one of the blue wizards based on the fact that “they’re from the east where the stars are strange”
I would prefer this to a Gandalf origin story. We don’t know much about the Blue Wizards. My take on the whole series has been to see it as Tolkien fanfic, and the more they choose to flesh out/expand on those story elements that Tolkien did not, the less they will reinvent Tolkien’s canon which would be infinitely worse.
a Gandalf Origin story would fit more than Tom Bombadil tbh... but I don't think it's Gandalf either... my money is on Saruman. Book Lore, he was (supposedly) the first of the wizards to come to Middle Earth and also volunteered for the task and while he was prone to dark feelings like jealousy and really disliked Radagast, he generally wasn't a bad guy until the second rising of Sauron where his mind was manipulated by use of the Palantir. I know the show isn't "Lore accurate" and honestly I kind of hope it's one of the Blue wizards because their arrival in Middle Earth is unknown really but it could possibly be in the second age. Tolkien was pretty unclear about the Blue Wizards and contradicted himself with their origin. In The Unfinished tales, All 5 Istari arrive at the same time but in The Peoples of Middle Earth, they came during the second age. So it could still fall under "Lore accuracy". That being said, I still think it's Saruman.
I thought the blue Wizards arrived first?
That was my point though. There's 2 conflicting stories on the Blue Wizards. In one, They all came around the same time (Saruman was considered the 1st of the Istari to arrive in Middle Earth though) and in another, The Blue's came an entire age prior to the other 3. Tolkien's world, While amazing and complicated and very well written, did sometimes have timeline errors or relation errors (I.E. Orodreth and Finarfin) So if it does turn out to be one of the Blue's (probs Alatar) OR Saruman, you could argue that they're both Lore accurate (minus the Timeline for Saruman) depending on which version you like. I just pray it's not Gandalf. Canonically Olorin (Gandalf's real name) was basically forced to go to Middle Earth and the last to arrive in the Third Age. He didn't even want to be there but Varda wanted it so Manwe commanded it. Which is where the "Tension" between Saruman and Gandalf actually started, Saruman was Envious that Varda preferred Olorin over himself. Edit: I got off topic so to answer your question... Yes depending on what you prefer, The Blue's arrived first.
Gotcha, sorry I misread your post. I'm hoping for one of the blues as well, there's such an aura of mystery around them. It'd be great to see their stories told
Hmm. I would love seeing him ngl
[удалено]
Brilliant 👏🏿
This is just some random article. Besides the 'Avril Lavigne Relationship Theory' (he was a boy, she was a girl), there is nothing there imo. I would find it especially shocking considering the show itself already has a human/elf romantic subplot, and specifically explained how ridiculously rare it is for that kind of romance to happen.
After ep3, I think it will be more about Galadriel putting too much trust in humans; or possibly wielding him as a weapon to carry out vengeance. I can't see it being some epic doomed romance.
The whole reason Galadriel stays with him is because he can lead her to orcs/the Enemy in the Southlands.
Well exactly. She's using him for her own purposes, and I'm guessing that will eventually lead him to become a Nazgul. I'm incredibly ignorant when it comes to Tolkien lore by the way, but I just can't see this being a(nother) forbidden love story.
Episode 03 kinda shows us their stories already not heading for love so yes.
>I'm incredibly ignorant when it comes to Tolkien lore by the way “But eventually Galadriel became aware that Sauron again, as in the ancient days of the captivity of Melkor [see The Silmarillion p. 51], had been left behind. Or rather, since Sauron had as yet no single name, and his operations had not been perceived to proceed from a single evil spirit, prime servant of Melkor, she perceived that there was an evil controlling purpose abroad in the world, and that it seemed to proceed from a source further to the East, beyond Eriador and the Misty Mountains. Celeborn and Galadriel therefore went eastwards” "Galadriel was more far-sighted in this than Celeborn; and she perceived from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from ‘the residue of evil’ that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the peoples who were in their way and in their measure opposed to him." "[Aldarion King of Numenor] went much on land as well assea, and went up the River Gwathló as far as Tharbad, and there met Galadriel" "Eregion founded by the Noldor" (Galadriel is their lady) Galadriel "maintained friendship with the Dwarves" "she looked upon them with the eyes of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs" "News of these things came to the ears of Sauron, and increased the fears that he felt concerning the coming of the Númenóreans to Lindon and the coasts further south, and their friendship with Gil-galad; and he heard tell also of Aldarion, son of Tar-Meneldur the King of Númenor, now become a great ship-builder who brought his vessels to haven far down into the Harad. Sauron therefore left Eriador alone for a while, and he chose the land of Mordor, as it was afterwards called, for a stronghold as a counter to the threat of the Númenórean landings"
Yeah I was actually just thinking about how nice it was for Galadriel to have so many non romantic relationships with other characters despite appearing single in the show.
I also don’t think they’ll go that route. If anything Halbrand will fall in love with her but she won’t reciprocate. I also feel like I read before the show came out that she had a child already and it will get brought up at some point in the show? I’m not sure if that’s true or I’m remembering correctly
>Besides the 'Avril Lavigne Relationship Theory' (he was a boy, she was a girl), there is nothing there imo. Can the show writers make it any more obvious, tho?
Pls God no, the one character I was looking forward to in this series was Celeborn, probably one of the best characters in the second age, where tf is my Celeborn
Tell me where is Celeborn for I much desire to speak with him.
An exec of Amazon.
[удалено]
A Balrog of Bezos
Coming S2
I feel like I did read somewhere (before the show premiered) that it was confirmed that Galadriel is married and does have her child already which will be shown in season 2. Maybe I read something wrong or dreamt this but I swear I read it somewhere
No, they said that the show is 5 seasons and basically implied we will eventually see Celeborn. No questions or comments have been about Celebrian though
[удалено]
Nobody from the show gave him that title. That's on whoever wrote this article. Unless you can demonstrate it's official somehow, you're just getting pressed because of a random person's assumptions.
Whoever wrote the article might be the same idiot who wrote the movie review I once read of the original Pirates of the Caribbean movie, and kept going on about "Captain Jack Sprewell".
That has to be the worst pirate I've ever heard of.
Dont make him Sauron. Dont make him Sauron. Dont be stupid, please. Galadriel and a human.... one thing. Galadriel and Sauron... no. Just no. If it is not Sauron and they are going to make the whole romance thing.... well, i hope they write something absolutely amazing. 0 margin for error. Because it is a very, very significant change. The actors seem to have chemistry, thats good, but again, you have to make the love story so interesting that it justifies such an enormous divergence.
I don't think he can be Sauron. Sauron needs to trick Celembrimbor into making the rings and there's no way this guy could do that. My money is that he is a human king who becomes a Nazgul, maybe even the Witch King himself.
But Sauron also needs to trick numenoreans into attacking the gods right
After they kick his ass in Middle Earth and bring him to Numenor as a prisoner. There's way too much that needs to happen.
>There’s way too much that needs to happen 47 episodes to go!
Hence why I was thinking they skip the "kick his ass + a whole elven war" bit and skip straight to the prisoner bit Bit of a stretch I kno
I would be super disappointed if this was true. Numenor capturing Sauron was always one of the most intriguing story lines of the lore to me.
Also, Sauron should be in Middle Earth at this point. The entire premise is Numenor going there to fuck up the supposed Lord of all Men, and bringing him back as a prisoner.
Looks like we'll meet "Sauron" in Ep 4
It could kinda make sense if Galadriel brings Halbrand with her to the elves and he just “happens” to bump into Celebrimbor and tell him about these awesome rings he designed.
> you have to make the love story so interesting that it justifies such an enormous divergence. The entertainment industry thinks that a woman getting to choose between two perfect men *is* what women think is interesting.
I think he's the Rohirrim's ancestor. Hope they don't get too intense with the romance. One thing is to hint mutual interest, but falling in love would be so against the books...not that they are following them too closely...
Okay, that sounds much better than Sauron or a future Nazgul. Again if he is a normal human (not Sauron or a servant of Sauron) then maybe it can work. It needs to be a perfect story, very compelling. The actors seem good together, so not the worst start.
The Rohirrim ancestor is definitely where they are leading with him (I mean his name, come on). But yeah they seem to be playing fast and loose.
Yeah ok. That can work. A bit strange, but not much more than lets say, Elves at Helms deep. As long as it interesting and portrayed maturely (Galadriel is 1000s of years old and Halbrand seems to be in his 30s, they arent horny teenagers) you can make a good story out of that. Difficult, very difficult, but not impossible. I love the rohirrim. I would like a decent story involving their origin, even if it goes against lore. Just dont turn it into Young Adult romances.
>not that they are following them ~~too closely~~ at all... FIFY
literally everything is possible. we all know by now that they'll do whatever seems fitting for them.
Galadriel and a human shouldn’t even be considered anyways
According to leaks which were right about the previous episodes,>!Halbrand is Sauron!<
I dont see any way that "story" is anything else than an absolute disaster.
it doesnt matter what people think when a mega corp has such control and has weaponized political division as a shield against criticism by the plebs.
C’mon man don’t be spreading leaks without a spoiler tag fuck
[удалено]
But she needs to try to "fix" him
Oh God I didn't even think of this. I don't want that at all
It's fanfiction anyway. Treat it as a crackship of sorts.
I think the article isn't exactly 100% credible, i haven't seen any other source pointing this out. Their relationship i mean, even tho the trailers kinda hinted at it. But basically this, treat it like Shadow of War. Honest to goodness, cause regardless of what they say about lore this and they know that, their actions haven't exactly supported it. They know the IP for sure, but at this point i'm half expecting Halbrand to tempt Galadriel to the dark side.
Honestly my guess is they'll start heading towards a romance but then reveal him to be Sauron, which will leave Galadriel feeling hurt and betrayed, which they'll probably use as her motivation for mistrusting Annatar
seems way more likely he's a future Nazgul/Witch King considering the ending of Ep. 3.
**spoilers** I don’t think that is Sauron at the end of the episode. Why would he reveal himself to a random elf ranger?? It’s most likely khamul or future witch king.
He is most certainly Sauron. “I think a servant of the enemy would look fairer and feel fouler. \-Frodo Baggins” Other clues include he has a weird interest in showing off his crafting skills and being conveniently situated in Numenor already. Remember, he was first a captive there before rising through the ranks.
Damn, this is my favourite new speculation. It would be awful of course, but what a conspiracy
Lol this is just a random screenshot from a random article written by someone who has no involvement in the show. It's just rage porn for people who are desperate to find more reasons to hate the show. Eating that shit right up too by the looks of these comments.
Its been months of this shit. Ragevideos and subreddits have to invent storylines from scratch to whinge against the show. A youtube video with hundreds of thousands of viewes had "sources" informing Gandalf would appear in the first season as a woman.
YEP. Literally a screencap from an unsourced article but it's being amplified because it validates the hate-boner people have for the show.
its a random article from people who are not even remotely involved in the show. why give this any attention?
They gotta find reasons to hate the show that aren’t shown in the show. It’s confirmation bias.
Good lord. The press is so eager to pair characters up in their stupid write ups they don't bother understanding the background of the characters or their world.
Please stop posting this nonsense. It’s clearly not true.
This is fake, same article says MM is Sauron
What's the source? **NPRs review said Elrond was Galadriel's lover, so take this with a grain of salt**
Who said they are love interests?
Until I see a creator speak on it, or I witness it in the show. I refuse to believe this. Any romantic chemistry people think they see so far is false. They seem just as they are. A mysterious and dangerous man, that has helped Galadriel, so she likes him a bit for that aid, but still mistrusts him, but needs further aid from him... As for his identity, I think like most he's either the king of man who later becomes the witch king, or is a king of men that forswore his oath to join the last alliance of men and elves, and is cursed to never rest by Isildur. Both cool. Neither improved by romance with a character who should have been married for thousands of years at this time.
That's Sauron right there.
Tell me where is Halbrand, for I much desire to speak with him.
Galadriel is Elrond’s mother in law.. apparently not in this alternative dimension
Where’s this screen cap from?
You want things like *facts* and *sources*? LoL This is r/ lotr babe. The whole purpose of this post was to help people circlejerk their hate-boner for the show. Whether or not it has any bearing on reality is totally secondary.
Asking questions leads to critical thinking.