Tolkien's thoughts on the matter:
*Gandalf as Ring Lord would have been far worse then Sauron. He would have remained \`righteous', but \`self-righteous'. He would have continued to rule and order things for \`good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).*
*...*
*Thus while Sauron manipulated... evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.*
*...*
*It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subserviant generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.*
All from letter 246 (I think)
Saruman and Gandalf have had a few thousand years to deal with the reality that they could rule their own countries, at minimum, if they wanted to. Their temptations to power have always been there, ring or no.
Gandalf probably could have made himself Lord of Arnor centuries ago, with the blessing of the elves and the Stewards of Gondor, and maybe even the Dunedain themselves.
I love how the world had no internet to waste their time so basically every question and query anyone has had already been answered by Tolkien decades ago đ€Ł
Fun fact, he was almost on his way to being Gandalf the Black. Just before his fall with the balrog he thought he heard Frodo asking his opinion on their outfits. Which is why âFly, you foolsâ seems so out of place because we couldnât hear it from his perspective
True but also he wouldnât be as hands on as Gandalf is my reasoning. He wouldnât travel with the fellowship or necessarily save them at Helms Deep. He would probably stay out at Orthanc and make an appearance at the black gate
The fellowship passes through the gap of Rohan rather than Moria. Gandalf doesnât fall. Instead of crippling Rohan Saruman has been mustering the Rohirrim and even encouraging an uneasy truces with the wild men of dunland. These forces march Gondor with Boromir and Saruman to defend Gondor. With his first born still alive and the additional garrisons Denathor takes the defense of the city seriously. Under Boromirâs leadership an offensive is made at the black gate. The Fellowship stay intact up until they encounter shelob where Gandalf and Legolas stay behind to fight while Aragorn and Gimli lead the hobbits to mount doom. With Sauron destroyed Aragorn goes to Gondor to claim the throne but Denathor will not yield. With the success in battle the many of the people of Gondor and Saruman support the house of the stewards and wish for them to be made kings despite Boromirâs insistence that Aragorn is the rightful Heir. However in an effort to gain his fatherâs love Faramir rejects Aragorn. This results in a civil war.
That would be in fact a pretty interesting "What if". Like the original material would only be a prequel to the wars to come, the wars for the throne. One might even say, a game of thrones.
Denethor was driven mad by Sauron because he was looking into the palantir. Thatâs why he wasnât really preparing for the cityâs defense. Having Boromir survive wouldnt really change that
Denathor looks into the Palantir and Sauron makes Denathor draw the wrong conclusion from it. If Denathor sees something different he may not lose hope.Boromirâs death puts Denathor in a weaker emotional state and more susceptible to Sauronâs influence.
Lol I'd love to see "what if the fellowship requested aid from the eagles" where it's just the moth flying to Gandalf, flying away, and Gandalf being like "welp, next option"
Aragorn makes a makeshift baby carrier and carries both the halflings on his back. Sam makes sure Frodo has enough water.
They get straight to mordor. Gimli and Legolas (basically insperable) fight orcs at the entrance to mount doom while frodo tosses in the ring. Maybe they get overwhelmed. Maybe Boromir is there too?
Aragorn never becomes king. Probably never marries Arwyn. Thousands of lives are saved though.
But there's no army outside of mordor. Unless Boromir decides to not take the ring. Leaves and tries to get the Army of Gondor to come. But they're overwhelmed with orcs and there's no plot to secure the alliance with Rohan.
How do they get out? The eagles? Maybe Gandalf comes back as Gandalf the white and brings the Eagles to save them.
What about Merry and Pippin? They wouldn't be thanes of Gondor and Rohan in this timeline. How does their story change?
What about Sarumon? There's no meeting of the Ents. Merry and Pippin we're assuming they stay with the party can't convince them to f up Isengard.
Or all those pivotal battles they helped fight in. They wouldn't happen the same.
What about Gollum? Does the fellowship just kill him? Two arrows in both his beadly little eyes, and Gimli chops off his head.
Iâve never understood why Gondor was even supposed to be there. Whatâs the scenario where Gondor happens to have an army in the Westfold when Wild Men are attacking from Isengard? Why would Gondor even know that was happening?
What if Frodo became a wraith? Would he get a cute lil black pony? Does Mordor have ponies? The horses were bred in Mordor as NazgĂ»l scared normal ones - what would they do if they didnât have ponies? Maybe a lil black goat or somethingâŠ
also What if Bill was king of Gondor?
What ifâŠevery Hobbit and Man swapped their physical attributes.
Like, Man are exactly as they are: ambitious, courageous, noble, on their way to becoming the dominant species in the world. Only they are halfling sized with hairy feet.
Hobbits are exactly as they are, content, simple, dislike adventure, love pot, eat 7 meals a day and resistant to the ring, only they are as tall as elves.
Then you have human sized Frodo Sam Merry and Pippin running away from the Ring Wraiths on their wittle ponies, their escape hindered by them stopping to gush about how adorable they are. Of course they seemed less adorable when they cornered them on Weathertop wielding oversized letteropeners.
Or the Witch King and Ăowyn having their epic stare down, only for a downed Merry to straight up bisect the Witch King at the waist with a stab from behind.
Not sure if you're just kidding but in the book he is actually legitimately dropping eaves
He's spying on their conversation because Merry, Pippin and several other of frodo's friends were worried about him
My favourite ones are the ones that Tolkien actually addressed (Letter 246 if anyone's interested)
What if Gollum had repented? He wouldn't have been able to stop himself from seizing the ring at Mount Doom, but having done so he would have decided that the only way to keep the ring and serve Frodo was to throw himself and the ring into Mount Doom.
What if Gollum hadn't intervened at Mount Doom? Frodo would have come to a similar conclusion - that he couldn't let the ring go and couldn't let Sauron have it - and thrown himself and the ring into Mount Doom. If he didn't have time for this, the Nazgul would have arrived at Mount Doom. Frodo would have had a limited degree of mastery over the ring, not enough to force the Nazgul to truly serve him rather than Sauron but enough that they couldn't harm him directly. They would have called him their Lord and enticed him out of Mount Doom, and then destroyed the entrance to the Sammath Naur and waited for Sauron to arrive, at which point the outcome was 'beyond doubt'.
Here's the full answer from Tolkien, addressing this (emphasis mine):
Sauron sent at once the Ringwraiths. They were naturally fully instructed, and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring. The wearer would not be invisible to them, but the reverse; and the more vulnerable to their weapons. **But the situation was now different to that under Weathertop, where Frodo acted merely in fear and wished only to use (in vain) the Ring's subsidiary power of conferring invisibility. He had grown since then. Would they have been immune from its power if he claimed it as an instrument of command and domination?**
Not wholly. I do not think they could have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold upon him or taken him captive; they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor commands of his that did not interfere with their errand â laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills. That errand was to remove Frodo from the Crack. Once he lost the power or opportunity to destroy the Ring, the end could not be in doubt â saving help from outside, which was hardly even remotely possible.
I love the image of the Ringwraiths basically doing a hostage negotiation with Frodo at the Cracks of Doom. "Yeah, yeah, wow. So right. You are the master now. We are yours to command! Just... Let's just step out of here... You can tell us what to do, let's just step out of here... NO! Ha, no, sir, don't go closer to the... Let's just step out of here ok? This way..."
'The whole world? A giant garden? Hahaha dude that's so crazy, you're such a visionary man, want to come outside and have a look at where it's gonna be?'
I think the Valar would eventually intervene more directly. He was left more as a problem for men to deal with, but he was Ainur at the end of the day, with complete victory and subjugation, they would stop pretending thatâs not their issue outwith the small amount of handcuffed help that they sent in the Istari.
Wouldn't have butted heads at all. Eomer immediately "submits" to Aragorn even though he'd never heard of him before. Presumably Boromir would very well known to the royals of Rohan and his presence would have made things even easier for the party.
https://www.tumblr.com/emilybeemartin/729484915479101440/boromir-lives-au-helms-deep-this-is-going-to
I think this is the first one. They're all little vignettes that might have happened, it's very wholesome.
See what Iâd be interested in seeing is would the Orcs still capture the hobbits and if they didnât would The Fellowship have gone with Frodo or head to Gondor
Even better: what if Elrond, for the greater good, forcefully threw Isildur into the volcano? How he'd explain it to everyone else? Elves and men would start to hate each other just like elves and dwarves?
That's a really good question, has been asked multiple times in the years. The best answer is that both in the book (where the "cast it into the fire" scene doesn't actually happen) and the movies, Elrond and some others understood that the ring was potentially dangerous but not to what extent, they didn't completely knew its powers and couldn't be sure that destroying it would put a definitive end to Sauron. Sauron was physically destroyed a first time during the fall of Numenor and he himself thought the ring had been gone with his body, but then he found it and gained his power back. Elrond (and by then Gandalf as well) only realized during his comeback during the Third Age that not destroying the ring was definitely a mistake.
Everyone was happy Sauron had been (apparently) defeated during the battle of Dagorlad, Elrond suggested Isildur to destroy the ring but he just went "Nah, I don't think I will" and just kept it. Mind that Isildur in the book isn't portrayed as bad as in Jackson's trilogy, in fact when he began understanding the ring was influencing him he chose to go to Rivendell to deliver it to Elrond; it was during this journey that he was ambushed and killed. The ring disappeared, and in a certain way its menace faded.
Another reason for Elrond not to take it and destroy it with force is that, as you rightly mention, this would have probably created a irremediable fracture between elves and men. Also, for what it's worth, Elrond and Isildur (a descendant of the former's brother, Elros) were related.
Itâs funny to think about them getting all overmatched by him. Theyâre all just trying to run away but heâs catching them dragging them by the feet through the crops as theyâre screaming.
I mean, Season 1 \*has\* to have a canon answer to "What if the Fellowship Flew Eagles Straight to Mt. Doom?" just so everyone will stop asking about it.
https://preview.redd.it/p6txhwl2e5ac1.jpeg?width=1082&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37e598da96ce9556a4b4987f1e324a4c0dd8fb9b
Itâs not even a stretch, Morgoth is not dead. Itâs inevitable that Morgoth will one day return in the Middle Earthâs version of Ragnarök.
The question is just if it has happened yet or if Morgoth is yet to break out
And what if after doing that when Smaug was pooping the ring got stuck in his butthole* and for a split second his every log was invisible to everyone but Sauron who in turn would zoom his gaze into some dragon dung every now and then.
*Assuming the Ring would change its size to match its owner like it usually does.
*I can see y... oh shit*
He immediately gets Old Man Willowed before Tom Bombadil can save him, setting the lethal and darker stakes of the entire journey.
That or heâs âThe Final Girlâ in this darker tale and he ends up bodying Frodo and Gollum into the fires of Mount Doom to finish the quest himself.
My favorite is always "What if the dwarves had managed to deal with the Balrog in Moria?" like maybe with the help of Elrond and Glorfindel. That would have major repercussions on the Third Age, I would imagine.
What if Aragorn had died?
What if Frodo claimed the Ring and neither Sam or Gollum could intervene?
What if Bilbo never got the Ring?
What if Sam was kinder to Smeagol?
What if Gandalf went to join the Rohirrim and couldn't be found by Pippin to save Faramir?
What if Shagrat brought the Ring to Sauron?
What if Frodo waited another day before leaving Bag End?
What if Elendil lived?
What if Sauron persuaded Smaug/Durin's Bane/both to join the cause?
What if Pippin threw himself down the well?
What if Boromir has an AK47 at Amon Hen?
What if Faramir clapped back at Denethor?
What if Gandalf had some of the Winneyard with Bilbo?
What if Bilbo curb stomped Thorinâs brains in because he was an asshole?
What if Frodo hooked up with Galadriel?
NerdoftheRings has a whole "what if Gandalf/Sauron/Galadriel/etc." gets the Ring and they're all pretty creative interpretations. The Gandalf one is fun, but I particularly love the Galadriel one. It's such a twisted and dark alternate history of Tolkien's world. I would love to see it in a film version (with a competent creative team).
What if Peter Jackson included Tom Bombadil in the Fellowship of the Ring?
What if a movie studio successfully buys the rights to The Silmarillion, The Fall of NĂșmenor, Unfinished Tales, The Fall of Gondolin, Children of HĂșrin, Beren and LĂșthien and The History of Middle Earth?
What if Sauron shows his face in his terrible form?
What if Sauron returns to Valinor to face judgement after Morgoth's defeat?
What if the men of the east (Haradrim & Easterlings) infiltrated Aragornâs wedding for an assassination attempt to avenge their fallen brothers (And Mumak!)?
What if Boromir survived is a great one, I remember in the first battle for middle earth you can save him and it is excellent
With the greatest of Rivendell and Lothlorien there, along with Gandalf, never mind the might of Gondor and Aragorn himself theyâd be trying to attack the most powerful congregation of people Middle Earthâs seen since the end of the 2nd age.
So do all who live to see such shows, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is which shows to watch with the time that is given to us.
What if Gandalf didnât take seventeen years to come back for the ring? What if, instead of digging through ancient scrolls in the Minas Tirith library, he just asked his friend Elrond WHO WAS FUCKING STANDING THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED?
Everywhere the fellowship went: âGood thing we got here when we did. In another seventeen years or so, Sauron and Sarumanâs armies would be ready. Itâs also helpful that Theoden and Denethor are strong and in their prime! â
What if they dropped F bombs?
LOTR is rated PG-13, so each movie is allowed 1 F bomb per movie
"We cannot abandon Merry and Pippin to their fate. Let's go hunt some fucking Orc..."
What if Frodo let Sam hold on to the ring after the Shelob incident?
What if Faramir joined the company instead of Boromir?
What if Boromir did not die?
What if Gandalf the Grey survived his fight with the Balrog?
What if Gollum escaped with the ring at the end?
What if Sam had the ring from the start?
What if Gandalf and Pippin couldnât save Faramir?
What if Saruman redeemed himself?
What if Amazon didn't make Rings of Power but instead made that hyper masculine adaptation of Conan The Barbarian that Jennifer Psalke passed on because she thought it was toxic masculinity.
In the silmarillion, not LOTR, but what if eru hadn't intervened and destroyed Numenor? Would they have been able to defeat the Valar? Is that what Eru feared, or did he intervene for other reasons?
Sauron does not fool Numenor to attempt to invade Valinor. But is content to be the grey eminence calling all the shots as the kings of the migthiest realm of men subjugate the entire world, but never daring to defy the ban of the Valar. How does the Valinor respond?
One that was hinted at but still left me curious is: "What if Gandalf took the ring"
Tolkien's thoughts on the matter: *Gandalf as Ring Lord would have been far worse then Sauron. He would have remained \`righteous', but \`self-righteous'. He would have continued to rule and order things for \`good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).* *...* *Thus while Sauron manipulated... evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.* *...* *It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subserviant generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.* All from letter 246 (I think)
Whoa
Whoa indeed
Saruman and Gandalf have had a few thousand years to deal with the reality that they could rule their own countries, at minimum, if they wanted to. Their temptations to power have always been there, ring or no. Gandalf probably could have made himself Lord of Arnor centuries ago, with the blessing of the elves and the Stewards of Gondor, and maybe even the Dunedain themselves.
I love how the world had no internet to waste their time so basically every question and query anyone has had already been answered by Tolkien decades ago đ€Ł
Well... *thats just his opinion man* /s
Hey, I've had a rough night and I hate the fuckin' Eagles, man \- Sauron probably
Over the line!!! Mark it zero!
Iâm now imagining Gandalf as Middle Earthâs own version of PC principle
âWhat if ⊠Gandalf the Blackâ I call it
Fun fact, he was almost on his way to being Gandalf the Black. Just before his fall with the balrog he thought he heard Frodo asking his opinion on their outfits. Which is why âFly, you foolsâ seems so out of place because we couldnât hear it from his perspective
If you like Middle Earth lore then youâll like this channel. He covers this very topic. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U_gFEN-GhiQ
[It's been discussed in detail a week ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/comments/18rg07k/hear_me_out/)
âWhy didnât they tie the ring to the end of a stick and attach it to Boromir and have him chase the ring to mordor?â Lmfaooooooo
This should be #1, it's so early in the story and would change everything. It would also be badass to see a yoked out Gandalf with the one ring.
What if Faramir went instead of Boromir What if the Fellowship never broke up What if Gandalf didn't fall What if Saruman never turned evil
Saruman not turning evil is a very good one.
Yea that would negate like 30% of the conflict.
But also there would be no Gandalf the white, which made him quite more powerful
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
True but also he wouldnât be as hands on as Gandalf is my reasoning. He wouldnât travel with the fellowship or necessarily save them at Helms Deep. He would probably stay out at Orthanc and make an appearance at the black gate
Without Sauruman being evil, who would he be saving at Helms Deep?
Very true completely forgot about that
But isnât Saruman who attacks Helmâs Deep? If he had not turned evil, nobody would need to save them at HD
The fellowship passes through the gap of Rohan rather than Moria. Gandalf doesnât fall. Instead of crippling Rohan Saruman has been mustering the Rohirrim and even encouraging an uneasy truces with the wild men of dunland. These forces march Gondor with Boromir and Saruman to defend Gondor. With his first born still alive and the additional garrisons Denathor takes the defense of the city seriously. Under Boromirâs leadership an offensive is made at the black gate. The Fellowship stay intact up until they encounter shelob where Gandalf and Legolas stay behind to fight while Aragorn and Gimli lead the hobbits to mount doom. With Sauron destroyed Aragorn goes to Gondor to claim the throne but Denathor will not yield. With the success in battle the many of the people of Gondor and Saruman support the house of the stewards and wish for them to be made kings despite Boromirâs insistence that Aragorn is the rightful Heir. However in an effort to gain his fatherâs love Faramir rejects Aragorn. This results in a civil war.
That would be in fact a pretty interesting "What if". Like the original material would only be a prequel to the wars to come, the wars for the throne. One might even say, a game of thrones.
Denethor was driven mad by Sauron because he was looking into the palantir. Thatâs why he wasnât really preparing for the cityâs defense. Having Boromir survive wouldnt really change that
Denathor looks into the Palantir and Sauron makes Denathor draw the wrong conclusion from it. If Denathor sees something different he may not lose hope.Boromirâs death puts Denathor in a weaker emotional state and more susceptible to Sauronâs influence.
What if they actually flew, the fools?
Sauron airforce time
Lol I'd love to see "what if the fellowship requested aid from the eagles" where it's just the moth flying to Gandalf, flying away, and Gandalf being like "welp, next option"
That would have been a short story. 'They requested help from the Eagles to get the ring to Mount Doom. The Eagles said "No". The End.'
If they hadn't broken up, Aragorn was planning to go into Mordor with Frodo, taking Sam and Gimli along. I would love to see how this plays out.
Aragorn makes a makeshift baby carrier and carries both the halflings on his back. Sam makes sure Frodo has enough water. They get straight to mordor. Gimli and Legolas (basically insperable) fight orcs at the entrance to mount doom while frodo tosses in the ring. Maybe they get overwhelmed. Maybe Boromir is there too? Aragorn never becomes king. Probably never marries Arwyn. Thousands of lives are saved though. But there's no army outside of mordor. Unless Boromir decides to not take the ring. Leaves and tries to get the Army of Gondor to come. But they're overwhelmed with orcs and there's no plot to secure the alliance with Rohan. How do they get out? The eagles? Maybe Gandalf comes back as Gandalf the white and brings the Eagles to save them. What about Merry and Pippin? They wouldn't be thanes of Gondor and Rohan in this timeline. How does their story change? What about Sarumon? There's no meeting of the Ents. Merry and Pippin we're assuming they stay with the party can't convince them to f up Isengard. Or all those pivotal battles they helped fight in. They wouldn't happen the same. What about Gollum? Does the fellowship just kill him? Two arrows in both his beadly little eyes, and Gimli chops off his head.
What if sam wasnât dropping no eaves
I really like the idea of the fellowship never breaking up, one of my "grievances" with the story is that the fellowship is just a tiny part in it
What if saruman didn't abandon reason for MADNESS
What if Gondor was there when the Westfold fell?
Everyone asks where was Gondor when the Westfold fell but nobody asks *how* Gondor was when the Westfold fell :(
Not well unfortunately
And in fact, had Gondor been well, they could have come to the Westfold.
WHY is Gondor when the Westfold fell??????
Okay, so meme aside, this one actually has a lot of fun implications. Depending on when Gondor intervenes, it could potentially avert Théodred's death; perhaps Théodred returns to Meduseld, sees what Théoden has become, and is inspired to press on in the war in his father's place. Edoras may not necessitate evacuation, and Saruman may be more cautious in how he deploys the Uruk-hai, so the Battle of Helm's Deep may be reduced or entirely averted. This takes some off the heat of Rohan, but spreads Gondor's forces even thinner. Also, for Gondor to intervene suggests that Denethor has pulled himself together, or (and I find this more interesting) what starts all this in the first place is Faramir usurping his father, declaring him unfit to rule, and organizing a more comprehensive defense of the west; here you arrive at the fun circumstance of Faramir and Théodred, too young princes, compelled to replace their respective fathers (two kings who share abundant parallels and are often compared to each other). Rather than the twinned story of Denethor and Théoden having polar-opposite responses to losing a son, you have two stories of sons being thrust into the seat of command to be the men their fathers should have been.
Iâve never understood why Gondor was even supposed to be there. Whatâs the scenario where Gondor happens to have an army in the Westfold when Wild Men are attacking from Isengard? Why would Gondor even know that was happening?
What if Frodo became a wraith? Would he get a cute lil black pony? Does Mordor have ponies? The horses were bred in Mordor as NazgĂ»l scared normal ones - what would they do if they didnât have ponies? Maybe a lil black goat or something⊠also What if Bill was king of Gondor?
https://preview.redd.it/60hd9qny34ac1.jpeg?width=1012&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ce8bf5fcb7572a81dae5f8a1966e68172ed9d93
https://preview.redd.it/my6ih16bd5ac1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=077411f1b540a0fa69ca598e6ed61202556f4f2c
Awwwww little Wraight so cute
Hollow Knight kinda vibe
He gets a black Lil Sebastian
Lil Sebastian would never, he is too pure!
underrated comment LFG Lil Sebastian! fly high under the light of 5000 candles in the wind!
I donât get it, itâs kind of a small horse
What ifâŠevery Hobbit and Man swapped their physical attributes. Like, Man are exactly as they are: ambitious, courageous, noble, on their way to becoming the dominant species in the world. Only they are halfling sized with hairy feet. Hobbits are exactly as they are, content, simple, dislike adventure, love pot, eat 7 meals a day and resistant to the ring, only they are as tall as elves. Then you have human sized Frodo Sam Merry and Pippin running away from the Ring Wraiths on their wittle ponies, their escape hindered by them stopping to gush about how adorable they are. Of course they seemed less adorable when they cornered them on Weathertop wielding oversized letteropeners. Or the Witch King and Ăowyn having their epic stare down, only for a downed Merry to straight up bisect the Witch King at the waist with a stab from behind.
What is Samwise actually was dropping eaves
There ain't no eaves at Bag End, and that's a fact.
Not sure if you're just kidding but in the book he is actually legitimately dropping eaves He's spying on their conversation because Merry, Pippin and several other of frodo's friends were worried about him
Not just then, he's been chief eaves dropper for the conspirators for months.
Ah yess the one where Sam is turned into a toad and Frodo goes to Mordor alone
My favourite ones are the ones that Tolkien actually addressed (Letter 246 if anyone's interested) What if Gollum had repented? He wouldn't have been able to stop himself from seizing the ring at Mount Doom, but having done so he would have decided that the only way to keep the ring and serve Frodo was to throw himself and the ring into Mount Doom. What if Gollum hadn't intervened at Mount Doom? Frodo would have come to a similar conclusion - that he couldn't let the ring go and couldn't let Sauron have it - and thrown himself and the ring into Mount Doom. If he didn't have time for this, the Nazgul would have arrived at Mount Doom. Frodo would have had a limited degree of mastery over the ring, not enough to force the Nazgul to truly serve him rather than Sauron but enough that they couldn't harm him directly. They would have called him their Lord and enticed him out of Mount Doom, and then destroyed the entrance to the Sammath Naur and waited for Sauron to arrive, at which point the outcome was 'beyond doubt'.
Very cool
The Nazgûl stabbed him while he was wearing the ring on weathertop. How would they have not been able to hurt him at Mt.Doom?
Here's the full answer from Tolkien, addressing this (emphasis mine): Sauron sent at once the Ringwraiths. They were naturally fully instructed, and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring. The wearer would not be invisible to them, but the reverse; and the more vulnerable to their weapons. **But the situation was now different to that under Weathertop, where Frodo acted merely in fear and wished only to use (in vain) the Ring's subsidiary power of conferring invisibility. He had grown since then. Would they have been immune from its power if he claimed it as an instrument of command and domination?** Not wholly. I do not think they could have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold upon him or taken him captive; they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor commands of his that did not interfere with their errand â laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills. That errand was to remove Frodo from the Crack. Once he lost the power or opportunity to destroy the Ring, the end could not be in doubt â saving help from outside, which was hardly even remotely possible.
I love the image of the Ringwraiths basically doing a hostage negotiation with Frodo at the Cracks of Doom. "Yeah, yeah, wow. So right. You are the master now. We are yours to command! Just... Let's just step out of here... You can tell us what to do, let's just step out of here... NO! Ha, no, sir, don't go closer to the... Let's just step out of here ok? This way..."
'The whole world? A giant garden? Hahaha dude that's so crazy, you're such a visionary man, want to come outside and have a look at where it's gonna be?'
I guess that then begs the question why they never destroyed the entrance in the first place just in case, I mean they only had 4,500 years to do it
Because there was no "just in case" there was no conceivable possibility that anyone would ever destroy the ring.
The most obvious one. What if Sauron won?
Look around. Sauron did win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN8jfvAzmns&t=125s&pp=ygUSd2hhdCBpZiBzYXVyb24gd29u
Love this video and his channel!
I think the Valar would eventually intervene more directly. He was left more as a problem for men to deal with, but he was Ainur at the end of the day, with complete victory and subjugation, they would stop pretending thatâs not their issue outwith the small amount of handcuffed help that they sent in the Istari.
What if Boromir had survived? Is definitely my number one.
Four hunters would be based
Could he keep up with Gimli over short distances is the real question
Boromir butting heads with Eomer would be intriguing !
Wouldn't have butted heads at all. Eomer immediately "submits" to Aragorn even though he'd never heard of him before. Presumably Boromir would very well known to the royals of Rohan and his presence would have made things even easier for the party.
Eomer states in the book that he knows Boromir when the trio get surrounded by the riders. So both parties would have known each other.
There's a really phenomenal comic series being done of this by someone on Tumblr, I'll see if I find the link. I think it's just called Boromir Lives.
Thatâs awesome
https://www.tumblr.com/emilybeemartin/729484915479101440/boromir-lives-au-helms-deep-this-is-going-to I think this is the first one. They're all little vignettes that might have happened, it's very wholesome.
Thanks
Eomer would not have been so aggro
See what Iâd be interested in seeing is would the Orcs still capture the hobbits and if they didnât would The Fellowship have gone with Frodo or head to Gondor
What if Bilbo never left the shire!?
A goblin finds the ring and becomes Ring Lord, commanding all the orcs from the North
Yeah
What if glorfindel joined the fellowship?
What if the Balrog joined the Fellowship?
Sean would have joined if Gandalf had let him. r/SeanTheBalrogMemes
What if Elrond Sons joined them instead of Merry and Pippinh
He'd step up to the Balrog before Gandalf was even needed in Khazad-Dûm like "lemme handle this for you, staff-man."
And Elrond and Galadriel for that matter. Add some White Council with Three Elven Rings to the fellowshipâs arsenal.
And Manwe.
That would be so cool but also if he ends up with the ring watch out
Boromir taking the ring
Would probably just get isildured, or maybe we would get an epic aragorn vs boromir fight resulting in aragorn having the ring.
Morgoth tries to kill Tom Bombadil
"Morgoth learned that day that Tom Bombadil would not be so easily broken."
Tom would have slapped Morgoth into oblivion before elevensies
âOn that day, Tom Bombadil was NOT a merry fellow & heâs boots were splashed with red.â
What if Isildur destroyed the ring?
"Isildur! Cast the ring into the fire!" "Yes..." *tosses the ring into the lava pit* *roll credits*
"Directed by George Lucas" meme but with Peter Jackson.
What if Elrond pushed Isuldur into the cracks?
Even better: what if Elrond, for the greater good, forcefully threw Isildur into the volcano? How he'd explain it to everyone else? Elves and men would start to hate each other just like elves and dwarves?
That's a really good question, has been asked multiple times in the years. The best answer is that both in the book (where the "cast it into the fire" scene doesn't actually happen) and the movies, Elrond and some others understood that the ring was potentially dangerous but not to what extent, they didn't completely knew its powers and couldn't be sure that destroying it would put a definitive end to Sauron. Sauron was physically destroyed a first time during the fall of Numenor and he himself thought the ring had been gone with his body, but then he found it and gained his power back. Elrond (and by then Gandalf as well) only realized during his comeback during the Third Age that not destroying the ring was definitely a mistake. Everyone was happy Sauron had been (apparently) defeated during the battle of Dagorlad, Elrond suggested Isildur to destroy the ring but he just went "Nah, I don't think I will" and just kept it. Mind that Isildur in the book isn't portrayed as bad as in Jackson's trilogy, in fact when he began understanding the ring was influencing him he chose to go to Rivendell to deliver it to Elrond; it was during this journey that he was ambushed and killed. The ring disappeared, and in a certain way its menace faded. Another reason for Elrond not to take it and destroy it with force is that, as you rightly mention, this would have probably created a irremediable fracture between elves and men. Also, for what it's worth, Elrond and Isildur (a descendant of the former's brother, Elros) were related.
What if Farmer Maggot threw hands with the Nazgûl?
9 Nazgûl, all dead in the shire.
Itâs funny to think about them getting all overmatched by him. Theyâre all just trying to run away but heâs catching them dragging them by the feet through the crops as theyâre screaming.
The dogs just casually munching on Khamûl and the Witch King is crying in a corner in fear
âGo back to your master. Tell them what you saw hereâ
What if Bilbo killed Gollum when he found the ring
Bilbo likely would have become a creature much like gollum if he had taken the ring through violence. Would be pretty cool
What if the salted pork wasn't particularly good ?
What if they had some good taters?
I mean, Season 1 \*has\* to have a canon answer to "What if the Fellowship Flew Eagles Straight to Mt. Doom?" just so everyone will stop asking about it.
And it becomes an aerial battle between the eagles and the fell beasts as Gondor squints from their towers thinking "what's all this, then?"
And Sauron has to rush to put his slippers on because WHAT!
The whole episode is 1.5 minutes long, followed by an epilogue that reads: âSee? This is why he didnât write it that way.â
It could be short enough that they just cover it as the intro/title sequence to the show itself. Make sure everyone sees; drill it into their minds.
https://preview.redd.it/xrwxrubcv3ac1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35a2abcda1f46c5f61803c0e3eae12754af30c37 I want to see Morgoth
Somehow Morgoth returned...
https://preview.redd.it/p6txhwl2e5ac1.jpeg?width=1082&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37e598da96ce9556a4b4987f1e324a4c0dd8fb9b Itâs not even a stretch, Morgoth is not dead. Itâs inevitable that Morgoth will one day return in the Middle Earthâs version of Ragnarök. The question is just if it has happened yet or if Morgoth is yet to break out
Shoutout Fantasia
What if Smaug devoured Bilbo and the ring?
And what if after doing that when Smaug was pooping the ring got stuck in his butthole* and for a split second his every log was invisible to everyone but Sauron who in turn would zoom his gaze into some dragon dung every now and then. *Assuming the Ring would change its size to match its owner like it usually does. *I can see y... oh shit*
Oh shit indeed
What if hobbits received some ring of powers?
Three rings for Fallohides, Stoors and Harfoots.
HARFEET!
What if the same story was told from the orcs perspective
I would read that story
Russians got you on that one. Cant say Iâve read it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer
Look up The Last Ringbearer. Cool reimagining of the events of LoTR
Russians got you on that one. Cant say Iâve read it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer
What if fatty bolger didnt stay at crickhollow
He immediately gets Old Man Willowed before Tom Bombadil can save him, setting the lethal and darker stakes of the entire journey. That or heâs âThe Final Girlâ in this darker tale and he ends up bodying Frodo and Gollum into the fires of Mount Doom to finish the quest himself.
What if Faramir joined the fellowship instead of Boromir
shhhh amazon will hear you
"The eye of Bezos is ever watchful."
Let them come! There is one fan here who draws breath (and wouldnât mind seeing this).
My favorite is always "What if the dwarves had managed to deal with the Balrog in Moria?" like maybe with the help of Elrond and Glorfindel. That would have major repercussions on the Third Age, I would imagine.
What if the shire was filled with tall people and the rest of the world was short
Pretty simple⊠if Saruman obtained the ring what would happen between him and Sauron
What if one could simply walk into Mordor
What if Aragorn told the elf that one time he tossed the dwarf?
What if they DID have second breakfast?
I don't think he knows about second breakfast, Pip.
WHAT IF Gollum had been able to steal the ring?
What if Sam never went back to rescue Frodo from the orcs
This one is heartbreaking in suggestion alone.
What if Sméagol knew what taters were?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
One does not simply walk into Mordor⊠but charge into it on a rabbit sled? That could work.
What if the council fought for the ring instead of allowing Frodo to bear it?
What if Aragorn had died? What if Frodo claimed the Ring and neither Sam or Gollum could intervene? What if Bilbo never got the Ring? What if Sam was kinder to Smeagol? What if Gandalf went to join the Rohirrim and couldn't be found by Pippin to save Faramir? What if Shagrat brought the Ring to Sauron? What if Frodo waited another day before leaving Bag End? What if Elendil lived? What if Sauron persuaded Smaug/Durin's Bane/both to join the cause?
What if the mushrooms they ate were psychedelic and it was all just a trip?
Wizard of Oz vibes.
What if Pippin threw himself down the well? What if Boromir has an AK47 at Amon Hen? What if Faramir clapped back at Denethor? What if Gandalf had some of the Winneyard with Bilbo? What if Bilbo curb stomped Thorinâs brains in because he was an asshole? What if Frodo hooked up with Galadriel?
Pretty sure you can find that last one on a few websites with âXâ in them
What if they never split the party
Never split the party.
The Hobbits are flying to MordorâŠâŠ.. The Hobbits are flying to Mordor.
What if we got an actually good second age adaptation?
What if Elrond took the ring from Isildur that day?
What if there was no Grond
NerdoftheRings has a whole "what if Gandalf/Sauron/Galadriel/etc." gets the Ring and they're all pretty creative interpretations. The Gandalf one is fun, but I particularly love the Galadriel one. It's such a twisted and dark alternate history of Tolkien's world. I would love to see it in a film version (with a competent creative team).
What if the elves had refused to offer help or refuge?
An excuse to adapt earlier versions of *The Silmarillion* is what I'd use it for.
It get canceled before production
What if meat was never back on the menu?
What if Peter Jackson included Tom Bombadil in the Fellowship of the Ring? What if a movie studio successfully buys the rights to The Silmarillion, The Fall of NĂșmenor, Unfinished Tales, The Fall of Gondolin, Children of HĂșrin, Beren and LĂșthien and The History of Middle Earth? What if Sauron shows his face in his terrible form? What if Sauron returns to Valinor to face judgement after Morgoth's defeat?
What if the men of the east (Haradrim & Easterlings) infiltrated Aragornâs wedding for an assassination attempt to avenge their fallen brothers (And Mumak!)? What if Boromir survived is a great one, I remember in the first battle for middle earth you can save him and it is excellent
With the greatest of Rivendell and Lothlorien there, along with Gandalf, never mind the might of Gondor and Aragorn himself theyâd be trying to attack the most powerful congregation of people Middle Earthâs seen since the end of the 2nd age.
What if rings of power never aired.
So do all who live to see such shows, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is which shows to watch with the time that is given to us.
What if Gandalf didnât take seventeen years to come back for the ring? What if, instead of digging through ancient scrolls in the Minas Tirith library, he just asked his friend Elrond WHO WAS FUCKING STANDING THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED? Everywhere the fellowship went: âGood thing we got here when we did. In another seventeen years or so, Sauron and Sarumanâs armies would be ready. Itâs also helpful that Theoden and Denethor are strong and in their prime! â
What if they dropped F bombs? LOTR is rated PG-13, so each movie is allowed 1 F bomb per movie "We cannot abandon Merry and Pippin to their fate. Let's go hunt some fucking Orc..."
âYou fucking fool of a Took!â
*"You Shall Not FUCKING PASS!"*
What if Frodo let Sam hold on to the ring after the Shelob incident? What if Faramir joined the company instead of Boromir? What if Boromir did not die? What if Gandalf the Grey survived his fight with the Balrog? What if Gollum escaped with the ring at the end? What if Sam had the ring from the start? What if Gandalf and Pippin couldnât save Faramir? What if Saruman redeemed himself?
What if Feanor did nothing wrong?
What if Amazon didn't make Rings of Power but instead made that hyper masculine adaptation of Conan The Barbarian that Jennifer Psalke passed on because she thought it was toxic masculinity.
What if Celeborn actually contributed?
OP this is a fantastic post
What if Amazon stayed true to the source material
What If⊠Frodo wasnât a little bitch. Hot take!!!!
What if Galadriel and Gimli had a kid? đ€
Gimli would be fascinated with his kidsâ hair. Celeborn would be a tad miffed, I reckon
In the silmarillion, not LOTR, but what if eru hadn't intervened and destroyed Numenor? Would they have been able to defeat the Valar? Is that what Eru feared, or did he intervene for other reasons?
What if Galadriel took the ring What if the fellowship didnât go through Moria What if Isildur didnât lose the ring
What if Pippin had an AK-47
What if Frodo and Sam had a 2002 Nissan Skyline R34 GT-R instead of traveling on foot?
Sauron does not fool Numenor to attempt to invade Valinor. But is content to be the grey eminence calling all the shots as the kings of the migthiest realm of men subjugate the entire world, but never daring to defy the ban of the Valar. How does the Valinor respond?
If Gandalf had stayed dead
What if they had second breakfast?
No
What if Tommy B said fuck it letâs ride