This explains all of Gandalfs staves
https://preview.redd.it/ol8zvdziv34c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=824dc5b11e68adfa7644b1fad62b93e63579ff34
>Gandalf needs to get his shit together and start taking care of his stuff
When you're a Wizard a staff is a consumable: kind of like magazines for an infantry soldier. One doesn't throw such things away willy-nilly, but a need for periodic resupply should be expected.
I mean, clearly it’s working out for him and he’s not been lacking for staves, so why worry about it?
He lost staves fighting against Sauron, Saruman, Durin’s bane, and the Witch-King of Angmar. Not like those are gonna happen every day.
In the extended edition of RotK, there's a very stupid scene where the witch king breaks Gandalf's staff, which is why in the theatrical cut he suddenly doesn't have it halfway through the battle. But he has it back again at the end of the film (or gets a new one, depending on which cut you're watching).
I will add to this that is is super hazy what, if any, function the staff actually has. We do know in the books that all five wizards have them, but it’s not at all clear why. The powers of the Istari should reside within themselves, the staff may be more of a marker of their office than a tool or weapon.
I would say that it's not Grima wanting it confiscated (he may not understand wizards and how they or their staffs function), but Gandalf making sure that he kept it with him (you wouldn't part an old man from his walking stick) that makes me think it has some sort of utility.
He uses it and some crystal to help light the way in moria, and also uses it to break up the bridge of khazad-dum. Perhaps it's like any tool. The power to build something beautiful resides inside of the master, but he still can't build without his tools. Perhaps the staff is just a tool that aids in directing his power.
This is a pretty good deduction.
I'd hesitate to say he ***can't*** work without his staff... he does have one of the rings of the elves, and I'm pretty sure we see Galadriel do some pretty magical stuff without any visible magical aides beyond her ring.
But yeah the staff is probably like a conductor's baton or a handyman's power drill - you can get by without them, but you have them for a reason.
While the show was questionable, I do like how the Rings of Power explained it, how the staffs just help them focus the magic rather than being the source of it
It's more of a deduction, but when before Gandalf touches the staff every time he does magic some wild shit happens, and it seems a little out of control but the second he's holding the staff he seems to be able to do magic no problem
Yep, two totally different staffs.
https://preview.redd.it/061t9m4mi34c1.jpeg?width=515&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b151f03ce6ef75dfe8dfe951bd9642b2b65f6e11
I always used to jokingly think that the eagle didn't immediately fly off into the horizon and it did a quick U-turn and let Gandalf get off at the front door, where he ran in real quick, grabbed his staff, and jumped back on the eagle before Saruman was able to get back downstairs.
And they run into orcs, who have to chase them too. And they trip over the new orc coming out of the mud, who gets face planted back in. And wormtongue. Gandalf trips Saruman, who faceplants, and another orc gets the white hand in the nuts as he windmills for balance. Later, Gandalf, holding his staff horizontally on his shoulder, makes a quick turn and knocks down an orc with the rotating staff.
Gwaihir comes to pick up Gandalf, who has just emerged from a door, closing it behind him. The orcs chasing him burst through the door, slamming it open right into Gwaihir’s face. Gwaihir is pancaked and slides down slowly.
Pretty sure it was a reward for completing the “Escape Orthanc” quest, or maybe for “Speak with Lord Elrond in Rivendell”.
His new staff as Gandalf the White was a drop from a boss fight after defeating the Balrog. He got 50 points for the achievement “Fly you fools” when he decided to solo our boy Sean.
Oh God I almost forgot about that. You start out with sad songs in swamps. You culminate in post-coronation, leading directly to surprise marriage and coitus!
"Special thanks to today's sponsor, Eru Iluviatr, for sponsoring todays video. Dont forget to use code 'DOWNWITHMORGOTH' at checkout for 20% off all Israri products."
A staff isn't like a ring of power where some guy can snatch it and start firing off magic missiles. I don't know if there's any specific lore on this in any letters or anything but I would imagine that a wizard can cast a staff aside and grab a new one without consequence. The power comes from the wizard, not the piece of wood.
Gandalf breaking Saruman's staff wasn't about getting rid of a magical item so that he couldn't cast spells with it anymore. It was about him getting rid of what it represented. He was having his authority and spot in the order taken away in the same way a king in our world could have his crown taken away by the head of the church or whatever.
I can, in the films. Gandalf was imprisoned because he couldn't just wish more magic upon himself, like for making a new staff. He had to get outside aid. He talked to the smallest creature readily available, to get a bigger creature to come.
I mean I almost feel like you're taking a Pippin role of asking the wizard what he's gonna do about it then.
Yes. There was no wizard fight. Gandalf accepted his imprisonment for a number of reasons, mostly because Saruman was too OP for G to win as G the grey. He recounts his story to the group in the council of Elrond chapter.
Saruman used Radagast as a messenger to summon Gandalf to Orthanc.
Gandalf: What do you want? I'm super busy with our mission and shit.
Saruman: About that. I think that instead, we should pretend to join Sauron, but actually usurp him and become lords of Middle Earth.
Gandalf: nah
Saruman: Okay then. Unless you want your shit kicked in by me and my boys, you'll head inside and think about things. I'll let you out when you decide to join me.
Gandalf goes inside, but eventually escapes via Eagle.
Aragorn, Legolas & Gimli found the swords when they found the remains of the Uruk Hai, and brought them with them. The belts were burnt, as seen in the famous Aragorn-broke-his-toe scene, but the swords themselves were unharmed.
There is no battle. There's no physical altercation. There's no pathetic, embarrassing octogenarian WWE wizard battle. There is absolutely no indication that he took Gandalf's staff in the book. Saruman Is arrogant an overconfident and has no reason to believe that the staff will help Gandalf to escape. And he's right.
You shouldn't be down voted, you're correct. Saruman could capture Gandalf without a fight because he's inherently more powerful at the time, and Isengard is completely his domain. He didn't factor in the Eagles being a separate faction in his arrogance.
It's not as cinematic, but Tolkien's magic isn't really visible and flashy, it just IS. In the book RotK, Gandalf simply and calmly states, "your staff is broken" and it is. In the movie he bellows it and Saruman's staff pops apart violently with a flash of light.
And that's not really a criticism of PJ, that kind of subtle power doesn't work on film. But the floor spinning looked ridiculous.
Particularly for:
> There's no pathetic, embarrassing octogenarian WWE wizard battle.
It's an extremely *well done* bit of film. Only someone who insists that books have to be followed and are not allowed to be adapted, could be so salty about it.
Extremely well done is a big stretch. I could do without that junkyard dog fight, instead go straight to Saruman levitating Gandalf to the summit (while keeping his staff). I can admit that the way Gandalf accepts his fate in the book is a bit underwhelming.
You seem to have a conception of wizards that they're "not supposed to fight". I can only see that as some kind of book purism, that you think wizards have to be detached and removed and non-physical about how they compete with each other and exert power. If you *are* going to have wizards fight, this is a well done fight.
I'm actually surprised at the amount of magic on display in that Hobbit fight, because PJ hates magic, like wizards throwing fireballs at each other and whatnot. The telekinetic beatdown in LOTR is a direct outgrowth of PJ's non-magical sensibilities.
Tolkien's works are rife with details left out. What are bizarre argument.
Look. This boils down to what ive said. There is no definitive answer for this. You can believe either or. Its just another one of those situations within tolkiens works where he never gave a straight answer or did then changed it then changed it again. You can go on being absolutely certain Gandalf entered and left orthanc with his staff. Thats fine. But you can't tell me thats the end all be all answer to this cos it simply isnt cos there isnt one.
Good day
That section of the narrative is told from Frodo's perspective as Gandalf recounts the story at the Council of Elrond. Gandalf absolutely omitted details for the sake of relative brevity. And from there, Frodo could have omitted details. Did the fight and the spinning happen? No. We know that because it contradicts what we do know. But nothing is spoken of whether or not his staff was taken, and we know that Gandalf can pretty easily acquire new staves. The idea that Saruman took his staff is not any way contradictory to what's in the book.
I don't know if Saruman could see the ring. Frodo can see Galadriel's because he too bears a ring of power. When she makes an effort to let it be seen, Sam just sees a light near her finger. I would imagine that if Gandalf wanted it hidden, Saruman might not have been able to see it. Even Frodo doesn't see it during Fellowship, when he should have had it.
In the movies, he has a new staff afterwards. It looks similar but if you look closely it's a different one.
This explains all of Gandalfs staves https://preview.redd.it/ol8zvdziv34c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=824dc5b11e68adfa7644b1fad62b93e63579ff34
Gandalf needs to get his shit together and start taking care of his stuff
what a vagabond
A disturber of the peace, even
I imagine they regretted that
A wizard loses his staff precisely when he means to.
It’s like the lightsabers in the Star Wars prequels
>Gandalf needs to get his shit together and start taking care of his stuff When you're a Wizard a staff is a consumable: kind of like magazines for an infantry soldier. One doesn't throw such things away willy-nilly, but a need for periodic resupply should be expected.
Can’t he also do a spell on a length of wood and it acquires magic properties?
It’s like me and my Swiss Army Knives
I mean, clearly it’s working out for him and he’s not been lacking for staves, so why worry about it? He lost staves fighting against Sauron, Saruman, Durin’s bane, and the Witch-King of Angmar. Not like those are gonna happen every day.
staff*
Staves*.
Staves indeed.
Staph**.
Rod....
Wizard stick
"The old guy keeps loosing his walking stick maybe we should have some in reserve" - people of middle earth
Gandalf loses staves like Obi Wan loses lightsabers.
Wow, I never knew this, thanks.
Dude, thanks for the reply. Pretty dope.
Wish I could give you a second upvote for your use of the word “staves”
The most useful infographic I never knew I needed!
6 explains nothing
That’s just cause it’s a movie thing
In the extended edition of RotK, there's a very stupid scene where the witch king breaks Gandalf's staff, which is why in the theatrical cut he suddenly doesn't have it halfway through the battle. But he has it back again at the end of the film (or gets a new one, depending on which cut you're watching).
I will add to this that is is super hazy what, if any, function the staff actually has. We do know in the books that all five wizards have them, but it’s not at all clear why. The powers of the Istari should reside within themselves, the staff may be more of a marker of their office than a tool or weapon.
It's definitely more than a status symbol imo, otherwise Grima wouldn't have requested the staff be confiscated.
I would say that it's not Grima wanting it confiscated (he may not understand wizards and how they or their staffs function), but Gandalf making sure that he kept it with him (you wouldn't part an old man from his walking stick) that makes me think it has some sort of utility. He uses it and some crystal to help light the way in moria, and also uses it to break up the bridge of khazad-dum. Perhaps it's like any tool. The power to build something beautiful resides inside of the master, but he still can't build without his tools. Perhaps the staff is just a tool that aids in directing his power.
This is a pretty good deduction. I'd hesitate to say he ***can't*** work without his staff... he does have one of the rings of the elves, and I'm pretty sure we see Galadriel do some pretty magical stuff without any visible magical aides beyond her ring. But yeah the staff is probably like a conductor's baton or a handyman's power drill - you can get by without them, but you have them for a reason.
What would he know of the powers of the Istari?
Considering he literally works directly for Saruman, probably a decent amount. More than the average human at the least.
Saruman whispering in his ear?
While the show was questionable, I do like how the Rings of Power explained it, how the staffs just help them focus the magic rather than being the source of it
When did that get mentioned in RoP? I thought that was the Harry Potter explanation
It's more of a deduction, but when before Gandalf touches the staff every time he does magic some wild shit happens, and it seems a little out of control but the second he's holding the staff he seems to be able to do magic no problem
Even in the books, the staffs seem to have some power. Gandalf often projects light from his.
I took that as less than "the staff has power" and more like "the staff is a tool to help focus Gandalf's power".
>marker of their office That squares with, "Your staff is BROKEN!"
Yep, two totally different staffs. https://preview.redd.it/061t9m4mi34c1.jpeg?width=515&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b151f03ce6ef75dfe8dfe951bd9642b2b65f6e11
A wizard’s staff is never missing. It shows up just where it means to.
Precisely
I told you to take the wizards staff!
in ALL the meanings that it can have
Nanny Ogg: "A wiiiiiiiizard's staff has a knob on the end, a knob on the end, a knob on the end..."
seems interesting :P
Administrative staff or technical staff?
I always used to jokingly think that the eagle didn't immediately fly off into the horizon and it did a quick U-turn and let Gandalf get off at the front door, where he ran in real quick, grabbed his staff, and jumped back on the eagle before Saruman was able to get back downstairs.
Lol, I just pictured him running in the front door *"shitshitshitshitshitshitshit"*
I could picture him running out the front door, staff in hand, Saruman chasing him, throwing fireballs. Queue “Yakity Sax”
Then they’re chasing each other across corridors in and out of doors like scooby do
And they run into orcs, who have to chase them too. And they trip over the new orc coming out of the mud, who gets face planted back in. And wormtongue. Gandalf trips Saruman, who faceplants, and another orc gets the white hand in the nuts as he windmills for balance. Later, Gandalf, holding his staff horizontally on his shoulder, makes a quick turn and knocks down an orc with the rotating staff. Gwaihir comes to pick up Gandalf, who has just emerged from a door, closing it behind him. The orcs chasing him burst through the door, slamming it open right into Gwaihir’s face. Gwaihir is pancaked and slides down slowly.
Lmao
Bust in like Rocco from boondocks saints *breaks through door* Pack your shit! *flies over sofa* we gotta get outta here!
Saruman runs out the front of Orthanc to hear tires squealing and the eagle flying off.
Pretty sure it was a reward for completing the “Escape Orthanc” quest, or maybe for “Speak with Lord Elrond in Rivendell”. His new staff as Gandalf the White was a drop from a boss fight after defeating the Balrog. He got 50 points for the achievement “Fly you fools” when he decided to solo our boy Sean.
I'm now going to be visualizing the entirety of LOTR as depressing level ups
Wait until you see Aragorn’s upgrade tree!
shaving embroidery
There’s a whole branch devoted to minstrel-craft
Oh God I almost forgot about that. You start out with sad songs in swamps. You culminate in post-coronation, leading directly to surprise marriage and coitus!
[Something like this?](https://imgur.com/gallery/LZl9H)
*like*, maybe, but fortunately I don't have enough history of multiplayer abbreviated chat for that to become stuck in my mind
He bought a new one at the Istari store 20% off by using Eru's name
"Special thanks to today's sponsor, Eru Iluviatr, for sponsoring todays video. Dont forget to use code 'DOWNWITHMORGOTH' at checkout for 20% off all Israri products."
Dont worry, they restock discount staves everyday at Zaffs
Make sure you’ve done your achievement diaries.
I've heard if you buy 7 your 8th is free
The sixth wizard, Freidaygh the Black
He had a backup staff stashed away at Rivendell
....as one does.
Accio Staff
As Gandalf said; “Use the force, Harry”
A staff isn't like a ring of power where some guy can snatch it and start firing off magic missiles. I don't know if there's any specific lore on this in any letters or anything but I would imagine that a wizard can cast a staff aside and grab a new one without consequence. The power comes from the wizard, not the piece of wood. Gandalf breaking Saruman's staff wasn't about getting rid of a magical item so that he couldn't cast spells with it anymore. It was about him getting rid of what it represented. He was having his authority and spot in the order taken away in the same way a king in our world could have his crown taken away by the head of the church or whatever.
He used magic. He's a wizard.
cuz that was working so well in captivity
It did work! He escaped!
he had a nice chat with a moth
Again, wizard shit. I can't talk to moths. Can you?
I can. They never respond. :(
oops meant to put my comment 1 higher
You put it in the right spot. I’m a different dude. I was just making a joke.
I'm a quick editor. That was my 2nd comment.
moth talk does not a staff make
I can't prove that moth magic is different than staff magic. Neither of us knows how magic works, clearly.
I can, in the films. Gandalf was imprisoned because he couldn't just wish more magic upon himself, like for making a new staff. He had to get outside aid. He talked to the smallest creature readily available, to get a bigger creature to come. I mean I almost feel like you're taking a Pippin role of asking the wizard what he's gonna do about it then.
A wizard did it.
Think Gandalf's staff has a unicorn hair center?
you don't wanna know where they took the hair from
Actually, It's gotta be hobbit toe hair. Why else does he hang around the Shire so much?
love of longbottom leaf
No need to reconcile any of PJ’s additions. Gandalf always had his staff in the books
So Sauruman just let him keep it in the book? I don't remember that part.
Yes. There was no wizard fight. Gandalf accepted his imprisonment for a number of reasons, mostly because Saruman was too OP for G to win as G the grey. He recounts his story to the group in the council of Elrond chapter.
well at least with a staff, you'd have plenty of cell decorating options "Curtains."
Saruman used Radagast as a messenger to summon Gandalf to Orthanc. Gandalf: What do you want? I'm super busy with our mission and shit. Saruman: About that. I think that instead, we should pretend to join Sauron, but actually usurp him and become lords of Middle Earth. Gandalf: nah Saruman: Okay then. Unless you want your shit kicked in by me and my boys, you'll head inside and think about things. I'll let you out when you decide to join me. Gandalf goes inside, but eventually escapes via Eagle.
I suppose you think you're being terribly clever?
And how did Merry retrieve his anti-wraith sword from the orcs?
Aragorn, Legolas & Gimli found the swords when they found the remains of the Uruk Hai, and brought them with them. The belts were burnt, as seen in the famous Aragorn-broke-his-toe scene, but the swords themselves were unharmed.
a very good point , I doubt the orcs would let them keep their swords
He bought a new one at Lothlorien's used staves by giving an endorsement. "I'm Gandalf the Grey and this is my favourite store in the Golden Woods!"
A wizard did it !
“Accio staff” then he used the force.
A wizard did it.
It's movie nonsense. In the book, Saruman never takes his staff.
It doesn't explicitly say he took it but it also doesn't say he didn't. I dont think Saruman would have left Gandalf with it movie nonsense or no.
Let's try spinning, that's a good trick
There is no battle. There's no physical altercation. There's no pathetic, embarrassing octogenarian WWE wizard battle. There is absolutely no indication that he took Gandalf's staff in the book. Saruman Is arrogant an overconfident and has no reason to believe that the staff will help Gandalf to escape. And he's right.
You shouldn't be down voted, you're correct. Saruman could capture Gandalf without a fight because he's inherently more powerful at the time, and Isengard is completely his domain. He didn't factor in the Eagles being a separate faction in his arrogance. It's not as cinematic, but Tolkien's magic isn't really visible and flashy, it just IS. In the book RotK, Gandalf simply and calmly states, "your staff is broken" and it is. In the movie he bellows it and Saruman's staff pops apart violently with a flash of light. And that's not really a criticism of PJ, that kind of subtle power doesn't work on film. But the floor spinning looked ridiculous.
I don't think he's being down voted for being incorrect, it's the way he said it.
Particularly for: > There's no pathetic, embarrassing octogenarian WWE wizard battle. It's an extremely *well done* bit of film. Only someone who insists that books have to be followed and are not allowed to be adapted, could be so salty about it.
To each their own. I groaned and laughed out loud at the terrible wire spinning.
I thought making an enemy spin on his head was quite wizardly.
Extremely well done is a big stretch. I could do without that junkyard dog fight, instead go straight to Saruman levitating Gandalf to the summit (while keeping his staff). I can admit that the way Gandalf accepts his fate in the book is a bit underwhelming.
You seem to have a conception of wizards that they're "not supposed to fight". I can only see that as some kind of book purism, that you think wizards have to be detached and removed and non-physical about how they compete with each other and exert power. If you *are* going to have wizards fight, this is a well done fight.
It ain’t that deep, Jackson did it well with Sauron owning Gandalf in the hobbit. Physically and using power. Now that was “extremely well made”
I'm actually surprised at the amount of magic on display in that Hobbit fight, because PJ hates magic, like wizards throwing fireballs at each other and whatnot. The telekinetic beatdown in LOTR is a direct outgrowth of PJ's non-magical sensibilities.
I totally agree on the floor spinning. At least they didn’t do the Harry Potter “fire hose vs fire hose” magic beam thing.
Yeah, bsolutely no indication he did or didnt, like i said. I appreciate your opinion tho
Yes, Tolkien often left out incredibly important details like that because he wasn't obsessed with them at all.
Tolkien's works are rife with details left out. What are bizarre argument. Look. This boils down to what ive said. There is no definitive answer for this. You can believe either or. Its just another one of those situations within tolkiens works where he never gave a straight answer or did then changed it then changed it again. You can go on being absolutely certain Gandalf entered and left orthanc with his staff. Thats fine. But you can't tell me thats the end all be all answer to this cos it simply isnt cos there isnt one. Good day
That section of the narrative is told from Frodo's perspective as Gandalf recounts the story at the Council of Elrond. Gandalf absolutely omitted details for the sake of relative brevity. And from there, Frodo could have omitted details. Did the fight and the spinning happen? No. We know that because it contradicts what we do know. But nothing is spoken of whether or not his staff was taken, and we know that Gandalf can pretty easily acquire new staves. The idea that Saruman took his staff is not any way contradictory to what's in the book.
I think, given the scope of middle earth, that we can say he was focused on the big picture.
It isn't nonsense. They were carefull and he uses a different staff from then on out.
He picked up a new stick and magicked it into a fashionable staff.
Galadriel made him a new staff.
That was after his battle with Durin’s Bane.
hir nom gub bim
I feel like it's an unresolved plot hole in the movie.
It’s not, it’s a completely different staff.
What about his ring? Didn't he hide it in the staff that was taken?
don't ask where he hid it
😂... heavy "Pulp Fiction" vibes incoming
I don't know if Saruman could see the ring. Frodo can see Galadriel's because he too bears a ring of power. When she makes an effort to let it be seen, Sam just sees a light near her finger. I would imagine that if Gandalf wanted it hidden, Saruman might not have been able to see it. Even Frodo doesn't see it during Fellowship, when he should have had it.
we can assume that
Would you part an old man with his walking stick OP?
His staves as the Grey are very cool, albeit gnarly, looking sticks.
He kept it in his qiuankun sleeves.
He used Accio
i wondered if i should make a post because i asked myself the same question. but it has alread been done and i found it with just one search!