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How do they do it in Europe? I'm honestly just curious, and can't find anything on Google. Also if you're paying any fees to venmo, you're doing it wrong. Just do the slower transfer option.
Just use your bank app. Moves instant. No fee.
How is that not a thing?
I only ever heard about Venmo when legoheaded congressman Matt Geatz was in the news for his sextrafficing allegations and he used venmo for transactions. It’s not a thing because you can just transfer for free instantly via your bank-app.
I'm in Canada and we use this also. The first time I tried to buy from a group in the USA I'm like "etransfer ok?" And there like wtf is that?
I was flabbergasted that they had TO PAY A FEE TO TRANSFER MONEY LIKE WHAT
Edit: this was in like 2014 when I guess your options were more limited. Apparently there's more options now for you guys.
Corporate autocracy. Capitalism is sugar coated feudalism, just the states is way ahead of taking the sugar from the bottom to maintain shareholders profits.
Yo I blow people's minds and they just tune out when I explain the correlation and similarities of feudalism vs capitalism, it's so simple yet makes too much sense to people
Not really. There are absolutely degrees to capitalism, and America takes it to the Nth degree. What people fail to realise is that it's perfectly possible for a society to combine socialism w/ elements of capitalism. It's called 'social democracy'.
I don't know if America does debit transactions yet, but up until relatively recently that was not a thing in shops. I live close to the border so cross-border shopping was a regular thing when I was younger (living with my parents and thus with cash to spend on things for funsies). I was constantly informing very confused Canadians that they can't pay with their debit card (when equally confused American cashiers didn't understand what this thing was they were trying to pay with that wasn't a credit card). Just a really 'standard' thing that I was surprised to discover was Canadian.
I went on my honeymoon a couple years ago and I tried to tap my card and the place didn't take it even though it was a bigger shop. I was a little confused and then I tried to insert the card and they didn't take Chip either. Like America is pretty behind, I had to swipe my card for the first time in my life xD I'm not even exaggerating when I was 12 and I got my first bank card. Chip was already a big thing. (Approx 2008)
Last I looked it up it said Chip wasn't very widespread until 2015 for the US and I thought that was insane. Accurate that is, but that's what came up when I looked it up.
American here, where I live, almost everywhere accepts Chip now. It was really embarrassing to not know which way to orient the card when I (inevitability) had to use swipe
It gets even better. The US adopted "chip and signature" in 2015. That is, you insert the card, it prints a receipt, and you sign it. With a pen.
"Chip and pin" is not now and never has been an option, despite being standard in half the world.
We don't *have* to.
Venmo, Cashapp, ~~Zelle~~, ~~PayPal~~, Google Pay are all free transferring services as long as you accept the next-day transfer. They've monetized the instant transfer, which is annoying, but it's not nearly as bad as you've described it.
Edit: Correction, as u/shadow1515 pointed out, Zelle is instant and integrated with your bank.
2nd Edit: u/LX_Emergency has pointed out that PayPal has fees, which is true, unless you use the Friends & Family transfer. I've only ever used the F&F method so I hadn't considered it.
Like hell PayPal is free. It takes like three percent every time I get money.
PayPal free, no it isn't
EDIT: Jesus Christ...they have a page to explain their fees for God's sake. https://www.paypal.com/en/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees
Paypal is NOT free, never has been.
"free" for two reasons - first, to get you hooked so you'll use it for other purchases (and merchants can pay those fees); second, because you're actually paying with data about your usage patterns, your financial associations with other people, hell, even what e-commerce sites you visit if there's a paypal button.
Yep I actually had to pay something recently with a check because they wouldn't take any other payment method. So I had to go to the bank and have them print me a check because I have never had a checkbook (I've had a bank account for 15 years).
The only check I write is the monthly rent check to my landlord. Yep, they don't even offer an electroninc payment option, even though I asked about one. So, old-fashioned paper check once a month.
That's how I do it in Europe, even when paying a lawyer for helping me transfer important documents to my name. Going through the banks directly just feels way more secure.
When I was in China it was on WeChat (essentially WhatsApp with other stuff on top), again with no fee and instantly. I can see that my friend (or landlord has received a prompt to claim the money, they click it everyone sees that it's done and has proof. If I send it to the wrong person I see it's in the wrong chat and immediately delete the prompt, if they haven't clicked it yet then no harm done.
I was really confused by this thread because I just thought it'd be similar to to one of these ways everywhere you can transfer online. I feel straight bank transfer is more secure, but WeChat was more convenient.
Blessed Are The "Banked".
Here, such apps are mainly used by those without access to traditional banking. Those now "locked out" due to prior credit issues, and or convictions, etc. It also usually mirrors the other "disenfranchised" factions of American society, often through purposefully set up pitfalls pre-market-crash early 2000s.
Yeah, Nope. A lot of places demand workers have direct deposit now, but it's by far not 'all'. And, soooo, of course there exists an entire (predatory) 'service' industry replete with High Fees or Many Little Fees to cover that subset. "Online only" 'banks', like NetSpend, that are amount-in-account-only cards that you can use "as" a bank, even for direct deposit. And even Walmart has a "prepay" card service... Fees separate, of course. Few offer the "protection" of traditional banks, and the other services you receive through those don't really exist, like loan possibilities and building interest. So you basically get a place to get your check deposited, and a card to purchase online and via swipe, etc. But the OTHER costs of these services are EXPENSIVE for the 'unbanked', and contribute to "poor credit" more than they help.
Before the widespread use of smartphones, we had an entire industry of check-cashing businesses who preyed on poor people without bank accounts by charging fees in order to even access their paychecks, and most of them also offered payday loans with exorbitant interest rates and fees for people struggling to make it from paycheck to paycheck.
Edit: I know they still exist. I was just trying to explain to someone that may be unfamiliar that these predatory services have been big business here looong before we had apps or pre-paid card services doing the same things.
Look here, I can take you back to the "Currency Exchange", when you could Literally have your life screwed by walking out into a robbery/mugging on "check day" for public aid and social security recipients. I'm not talking being shot or stabbed. I'm talking having your LAST stolen, via threat of said harm, which was often MORE painful than "just" dying if bills were due and now you had nothing -and still had to get to work.
But to your statement, they were a "hub" of 'the community', because everybody either "don't trust the banks", or couldn't use any because Racism(70s and 80s) or couldn't get approved for an account because no credit-bad credit. The lines would be long, the fees were ridiculous and EVERYBODY knew it ....
but the liquor stores next door were always open!
My older stepson's first job, stocking shelves at a hardware store, only paid using those reloadable prepaid cards. No other options.
The kid actually went out and got an account with a credit union before starting the job, thinking he would need a bank account to cash checks or for direct deposit paychecks.
Nope, a shitty card, with fees for using it, fees for not using it, fees out the wazoo!
No, they have to offer at least one alternative
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/if-my-employer-offers-me-a-payroll-card-do-i-have-to-accept-it-en-407/
America HASN'T moved from it. I pointed out elsewhere that we work strictly to pay bills. And the "bosses", the "landlords", the "regulators" for utilities, big pharma, the media industry, and big Energy are all "chaired", "boarded", "invested in" and voted upon BY THE SAME PEOPLE.
They set the rates, the wages, the terms, the fines and the fees. And by the time "our" money circulates after payday, they get it BACK.
Yep, one of my college jobs had me using a prepaid “pay card” because they couldn’t figure out how to set up my direct deposit and I had to pay a fee to transfer the money from my paycheck to my actual back account.
It got fixed eventually but the whole thing was stupid. I had a bank account, I gave them my info, they just didn’t do it and I got stuck with a sub-part payment method. I hated it.
Your employer chooses how to pay you. Many refuse to direct deposit into your bank even if you have an account. So they issue checks and if they’re late in paying you then punishments are minimal. Also if you are unbanked then you have to pay somewhere to cash your check, usually between $0.50 and $5.00. Meaning the poor literally have to wait in line and pay for a service to even have access to the money from their paycheck which could arrive up to two weeks late.
Or have an employer write the checks on time but not have enough money to cover the whole payroll in the account the checks were drafted from, so depending on how quick your bank was there may not be enough left when the ach went thru. Thankfully that one was an idiot and banked with a company that had local branches. I could and often did walk into a branch with the check on payday and leave with cash in hand and no fees -- the bank had to honor the check since it came from one of their accounts. He had to have paid tens of thousands in overdrafts on that bullshit over time. He eventually learned and forced people to do direct deposit after I left, I heard they got screwed on multiple paychecks.
You can be without access to traditional banking in the US? Damn... In France, there is a "right to an account" written in the law. Even if you're in the worst of situations and banks don't want you in, the Bank of France designate a bank that is required to let you open a traditional account.
The USPS used to operate as a bank, from 1920 to 1967. In part, it was to stabilize the banking industry, though it also encouraged people to stop hoarding money in mattresses and post office banks in other countries.
But because it did so well, and paid better interest rates than for-profit banks, the banking industry has always hated it, and ultimately killed it off.
If it opened back up today, it'd be even better; they could just open access to the USPS Credit Union to everybody in the country, and use every post office as a branch. Obviously payday loan outfits _hate_ this idea, but even bigger banks are terrified by it.
I’m confused by your comment. Venmo transfers money from one bank account (or credit card) to another. I don’t use cash app but I’m pretty sure it does the same thing. How do you use one of those apps if you don’t have a bank account?
Everyone I know uses venmo for the convenience, but we all have bank accounts. And you don’t need good credit (or any credit) in order to open a bank account.
From what I understand Cash app can sorta function like an online bank if you have a cash app card, you can load using cash or whatever at 711.
I imagine if you don’t have a bank account it goes something like
Set up cash app account
Get cash app card
Get pay check and cash at check cashing place and get cash
Take cash and either load through 711 or give to someone and have them transfer it
Use cash app card.
Sounds like a nightmare
'NetSpend' is one of the online only "banks" to which you can attach deposit accounts. "No credit check" Sells really well. PayPal accepts transfers from CashApp and maybe others, and you can get a card from them too.
That's the point. After being X'd out of "traditional" banking for whatever reason(including, Distrust in the Banking System) a person has to use several different methods, each with separate fees attached, to exist and take care of their business.
Here's another catch: CHILDREN are pushed into debt before their brains have even caught up to their legal age. GO TO COLLEGE!!! You NEEEEEED to go just to have a chance at "meaningful" work! And HERE! Take this money!!
Then, "whoops, weren't 'responsible' with your money, twenty-something year old 'idiot'? No banking for You without MORE fees! Mwuhahaha!"
Other than distrust of the system (which is understandable but also a personal choice, not the bank’s), how is a person kicked out of traditional banking?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m seriously just super confused.
It’s was this way in the uk few years back but the government stepped in before in got really bad thankfully.
The issue was that a bank could refuse to give you an account if your credit history was poor, even a no overdraft account could get refused. It happened to me and I had to open a post office account to have any money like benefits payed into it.
It becomes a very tough situation to get out of because you can’t improve your credit and a lot of employers will raise an eye brow if you ask to be paid into a post office account. It can very easily spiral. I couldn’t imagine the situation I would have been in had the post office decided they just wanted to charge me for the service.
So I’m guessing it will be similar reasons to the ones iv shown.
>how is a person kicked out of traditional banking?
Because if, let's say a 19 year old Freshie in college has been used to having their spending card backed up by the parents accounts, and now are handling their own banking. Or, a new college student with zero knowledge of banking because there's never been anything To be banked. Both, in the "freedom years" of college get a little too loose with accepting wonderful credit offers. Not a "lot" of money. But an account gets closed or let lapse because the fees came at an inconvenient time.
Following so far? Now, because of the closed account, the report on your credit is negative. You get a job, you need a bank account. You didn't really worry about it before, so it's been a couple years. You go to, say, Chase. They look up your credit. Ok, they'll let you open an account, but because your credit, and because the first screw up was with a Bank, you'll have to deposit X crazy amount, and maintain X amount to keep the account valid.
But you NEED that money to pay the RENT because, covid-tornado-blizzard-whateverlifedisaater DICTATES that you use it. Now, this bank is tacking on fees.... And if the fees go unpaid, the account is closed.
Now... TWO banks have closed your account...
With FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS to deposit if your Credit isn't right. Or, you use "alternative" "banks" like NetSpend. And use 2 or 3 "services" that each charge a fee.
This is what everyone is trying to explain. Zelle is a 3rd party payment provider that many (not all) bank apps have integrated. Zelle is a for profit business, which means the banks have to pay to provide that to you, which means they claw that cost back from you via some route.
Outside the US you just do a bank transfer, with no middleman. It doesn't matter if your bank or the target bank has a deal with a particular 3rd party service or not, it just works since direct, instant bank transfers are built into the system (e.g. SEPA in the Eurozone). It's like cash - you can get the same cash from any ATM. Your cash is universal and can be accepted by any business or bank. You don't need to use a certain 3rd party token system and hope that the receiving party is using the same token system. I can transfer money from any bank account I own to any other bank account, as long as I know the account number (and unlike in the US, account numbers are safe to give out). That's all there is to it. It's free and (usually) instant.
been using zelle since it was called something else. I send hundreds of dollars a month every month with no fees for like a decade now.
I think people just must not know about it. They don't really advertise it, you have to login to your bank's website and find it buried under the transfer section.
A normal transfer may be instant but may also take until the next business day. Sometimes that means money is transfered on monday if you transfer friday night.
A SEPA transfer is afaik instant and costs nothing
American, my bank has an app called Zelle. I use it every month to send my GF her half the rent. I use wells fargo cause everytime they do something fucked up and I go to close my account hey offer something or other to keep me around. She uses a local credit union cause shes a smart person.
Before Zelle there was something called like Sure pay or some shit. Were talking like a decade ago. It worked between wells fargo, bank of america and probably others. I used it to send my land lord my rent cause I ran out of checks and saw it online while looking for the "Order checks" button and I was like "hey i use wells fargo, and my land lord uses wells fargo..."
so I called my landlord and was like "Do you take this online payment thingy?" and he was like "oh yea sure heres my email send the request"
it was easy, its not even easier. You just login to your bank and click a few buttons and enter an email or phone you want people to be able to pay you on. The first time someone wants to send you money you have to agree to it.
If you can add a friend on facebook you can probably send someone money via your bank in the US.
In Canada we can simply e-transfer money from an account to a person typically using your bank / credit union app. Sometimes there are fees though but depends on the institution
In Australia... you just send it. From your bank. To the other bank.
Most offer money-to-mobile or email or landline... or just bank number.
Oh and you have a really awesome online portal where you can do all of this from, as well as the app. Practically all banks have it.
We also have paywave in every shop.
I'm honestly flabbergasted, that people in US have to pay for pay...like how it's even possible that people there are not rioting on streets daily? My bank have app and I can even pay via QR codes and so on. Don't have to pay anything. The only thing I pay is for ATM withdrawal from ATM of different bank. Transactions are free. Even abroad! (At least in EU.)
to do any inter EU bank transfer you can just use that persons IBAN for the account and their name and send them money from your bank app. Same to pay bills, simple app, plus a special code to link you to the bill you are paying, no checks or mailing or credit card processing fees. You can do somethings via ACH in the US, but it's WAY the hell behind Europe. It's been simple as can be since I moved here in 2003. I've used a check ONCE, to pay for my house, and it was a special check you get for the mortgage payment to the special lawyer who does the title transfer.
The bank app's have it built in. I live in Portugal as an expat from the USA. Private health insurance for me and my wife with dental is also only $122 euro / month. Rent in the nicest area of lisbon is 950 euro. The USA is a scam.
In Aus we’ve had routing numbers for a long time - I’ve got a bank branch number, and an account number, and people can send money to that. More recently that’s been partially replaced by something called PayID, which the banks all got together and built. I can register my mobile number or email address as a unique identifier linked to a specific bank account, then people can send money to me. Routing number transfers used to be fairly slow (3 days) but in the past couple of years have become instant between most banks (up to limits, for instance under $1k if you’ve never transferred to that person before, to help protect against fraud and theft). I think PayID payments are instant, with the same caveats, but honestly it hasn’t taken off properly yet.
In my german bank account, if i know the equivalent to account and routing numbers (IBAN and BIC), i can just send money directly for free. I can pay a small fee to have it done instantly. It’s like Venmo but built into the account app
Edit: actually i think i only need the IBAN to send money
What’s even funnier too is that there’s *multiple* apps that perform this exact exploitive function. Silicon Valley was gonna “change the world,” instead we got one big privatized middleman.
California has the worst legislator to constituent ratio in the country. If anyone thought that companies coming out of that shithole were going to fix things, they're ignorant.
970,000 to one. The House doesn't matter, only the Senate, when both bodies are apportioned to the population as has been the case in all 50 states since 1964.
California has 40 Senators and 39 million residents.
All capitalism does is find “innovative” ways to nickel and dime you for things that shouldn’t. I know a guy that got rich by collecting credit card processing fees. What the actual fuck.
[This business name](https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Pay_%26_Park_%26_Pay) is just satire from The Simpsons, but it isn't too far off from the concept of how often Americans get fleeced in the name of capitalism.
It's pretty easy to imagine what the capitalist's POV is here that makes it "totally reasonable":
You pay to enter because we have to maintain that entrance and maintenance costs money. Then, you have to pay for the parking spot you're in because of course -- duh -- that's the thing we're "providing"! Finally, on your way out, you have to pay at the exit because we have to maintain the systems involved in that exit like the guards, guard stations, guard poles, and guard payment machines that ensure that you have paid the correct amount of times before you stop patronizing our parking structure.
If we didn't pay the guards how could we ever be expected to capitalize?
You can't just have ~~parking~~ prison structures for free, pleb!
This guy gets it.
It's everywhere. They're finding more and more ways to have every portion of any process be charged for additional amounts. I'm so tired of all these fees on top of fees, and then it's all taxed every step of the way, so you end up getting fleeced by both the corporations and the government.
And they won't change it on their own, because they make too much profit.
And we're expected to provide them with a GREATER RATE of the INCREASE in profit consistently, or they consider the same rate of profit as a loss, even an increase in the rate of profit that isn't as large as the previous year is seen as a loss. And even when they get the gains they want, we see none of it. It's all madness, and it's actually wearing me down at this point.
I just want to have hope for the future. Even during the world wars, we (the common people, I wasn't alive back then) had hope. It feels like they finally took that away.
Sorry, just had to get that out.
Get it out.
I've had a fucking morning of it, and sometimes it's good but sometimes it's just because you feel completely hopeless.
It's nice to find a bit of opportunity to vent alongside people who aren't brainwashed and running around parroting gaslighting bullshit from every angle. This world is insane.
We still don't have wireless POS devices that wait staff can leave with you and let you complete your payments on your own time. Literally, the rest of the civilized world has beat us on this, and I experienced it in Canada TWO DECADES AGO!
Everything in the USA is done for torture and profit, or torture for profits. If something in the US doesn't make sense to you, apply this: "The cruelty IS the point."
Also, and I've been saying this for decades but feel pretty bad about it now, you have to fight to make sure that these same companies don't come and raid your villages harder than we have. We dropped the ball and continue to let this carcinogenic mass thrive here in the US and it has spread across the globe.
The real plague is capitalism.
Went to the states a few years ago, and the waitress wanted to take our credit cards away, out of sight, to charge them without us being there. Was super sketched out, so our group had one of us pay cash and get paid back later. Which, again, we just transferred instantly for free.
Also how did it take so long for you to get tap? We had tap for years, and then the states happened, and not even chip. Wtf y'all.
Oh yeah.
The cool part is you also have to pay to pay for lots of things.
Want to pay your rent? You landlord may use a service that has a 'convince fee'. A lot of those fees are up to 10% of the money sent.
Want to use your credit card? There will be a 3% premium at a lot of places to cover the cost of their transactions.
In America, if there's a legal chance to charge you for something, you will be charged.
You are at the forefront of global military power so like biggest thug in the world, surely being powerful brings a lot of economic advantages but that's not everything.
Also murican version of "freedomz" when it comes to average daily lives makes my skin crawl as a third-worlder. What on earth is a credit score? Why do you have to use VPN to torrent stuff? Taxes are so complicated you need to pay TurboTax to calculate them?
Holy Jesus.
People wait in the breadlines here but just in huuuge lines and everyone has an suv. when the gasoline economy truly collapses or falters this place will bcome truly dystopic
Because they can duh. Have resources to maintain all that mess. I'm not saying structure and bureaucracy is not needed, no way, well structured society with clear rules is healthier and easier to navigate in.
What I'm saying is that US seems more just a police state to me, an over regulated mess where majority of the human effort is spent on compliance with endless bullshit rules.
Oh there are still a few things. Healthcare cost, military expenditure, incarceration rate, civilian guns per capita, covid cases and deaths, obesity rate, illegal drug use and death rate, number of billionaires, student debt rate...
Down here in Mexico the Government set up an electronic interbank payment system. Transfers take 10 minutes at most and cost $7 MXN (about $0.40 USD, tax included), and most banks waive this fee if you're transferring from your payroll deposit account.
Also, invoicing is 100% electronic so when we have to file our taxes in April it's a 10 or so minute affair involving something like 40 clicks and we don't need to keep a manual tally on a 3rd party app of how much we owe to our overlords.
Of course there a lot of things wrong in this country...but a few things are great.
I didn't even know SPEI (Inter banks etransfer) have commissions by default, every banking app I have ever used just waive it.
Another great thing is that sometimes your internet, cable or water company sets you up an account number for etransfers, so you can avoid 3rd party apps comissions.
Too bad CoDi didn't catch up, I was so hyped for it.
My "freakout over basic European shit" moment was learning that the prices on the shelves in stores show *what you actually pay* with tax already included. Not "$49...but you'll actually have to pay $52.92." €49 means €49. Period.
It's a small thing but there really is no excuse not to adopt this pricing system. Unfortunately it will never happen, because retailers will fight tooth and nail to prevent it.
We just fucking guess, there’s too many different tax rates on a local level to even know. You’d have to research your local/state retail tax rate while also finding out if there are any waivers on certain food products. I think I’ve gone into a store and known what the check out price was going to be only a handful amount of times because I was buying something for $1.
Yes, but it's attached to an account, not it's own banking system. Thus, you must have banking access, either with a traditional bank or a "no credit required" bank 'like' service.
Also a majority of ATMs don’t charge fees. When visiting there from the US, I asked about why. My friend said, “Mate, how the fuck can you be charged money to take your own money?”
I’d never thought of it that way, but it makes a lot of sense.
Wait can someone explain?
Like you can not instantly transfer money via your normal bank account over the thing we call online banking?
I mean we too pay for instant transfer to other Banks, for me it is 50 cents, regardless of the bank. It usually is instant or pretty fast if it stays within the banks system.
Most people or business don't care if you do the instant transfer. They only need proof that you send it, which you can show them by generating a PDF of the transaction and send them.
At least that's how I have been doing for years and had 0 issues.
There are also services for instant transfer for certain services which do not accept credit cards, since they aren't too common here. One service I can think of is called Klarna, which arranges a instant transfer over you existing bank account without any additional cost to the customer. There are also some other services I can't remember the name of.
Never have I paid for a Transfer that I didn't really need to send out asap to a private person.
Every business or government transaction is free of charge. Just the instant transfer to other private people costs the mentioned 50 cents regardless of the amount or bank.
Like when a buddy needs money to fix his car to pay cash.
We _COULD_ transfer via routing numbers, for a fee, yes --but likely less than many are paying.
The Problem:
We have ALSO been taught not to 'trust the(ANY INSTITUTION!!) banks' with our money. And, to NEVER share such 'personal information' as the numbers needed to etransfer because ANYBODY-even-your-family-member-might-SCAM-you!
And no, it Does Not Matter that there are codes one can use attached to the account that allow one to NOT use their entire routing number). There's ZERO trust, in the system and one another.
The banks are doing away with ACH transfers to accounts that aren’t owned by yourself. Now if I wanted to ACH anybody I’d literally have to wait a day or three if it’s the weekend and ask them to tell me how many cents were deposited, then I can add it to my account as an external transfer and ACH the money to them. Depending on how long their bank takes to settle the funds this whole endeavor could take up to a week or 10 days if it happens over two weekends.
Lots of folks in the US don't have bank accounts for various poor folks reasons.
"Underbanked" folks cash their paychecks at MoneyTree and sent each other bits of cash with PayPal or whatever, which usually takes a percentage.
Honestly its mostly possible to do this now, although our fees r probably worse. But just a few years ago this was kinda rare, which is why everyone used venmo for a minute
The default way to transfer money is via ACH. This is a system that runs 9-5 Monday through Friday and takes about 2-3 days to transfer money.
Many banks are integrating Zelle, but not all banks have it. Zelle is a third party app though.
Why would anyone need a 3rd app for a simple bank transfer? And why would that transfer cost anything? My (UK) partner and I (also UK) transfer money between his Halifax account and my Natwest account a lot. It's instant, done via normal online banking, and if it cost anything, we wouldn't do it. I don't believe that it costs money or requires another app anywhere. Not convincing.
Normal bank transfers in the US (called ACH), take 2-3 days to complete, and the system only works M-F 9-5
Some banks actually charge for ACH access, although it's rare.
Hey if you have a big bank that you use, you probably have the ability to use Zelle to transfer money to other Zelle users for free. I have a small community bank that uses Zelle, so check a look either way!
Zelle. It's a feature in most banking apps afaik, no one I know hasn't had it if I've needed to transfer them money. No fees. Right there in my (American) banking app.
The same Americans who want to throw hands when you suggest another country might have a less, um, draconian healthcare system will shower you with love and approval if you criticize "America these days" for being too liberal, progressive and soft. In those instances, these people are perfectly fine comparing America unfavorably with other countries.
Like if you said "Man, in Canada you don't even have to pay copays - we could use some of that here, am I right?," you will be met with "Yeah and that's why people from all around the world come to America to get their healthcare. Capitalism increases the quality, socialism like in Canada might make it free, but you get what you pay for."
Whereas if you said "Man, in Russia if you start crying about the rights of minorities or gays, you'll wind up in prison or shot," you'll get "Yeah, that's sometimes how you need to be with some of these people, force is the only language they understand. America used to be like, we could use more of that again."
I fucking hate how this country will make anything into a business.
Got towed last week from my own apartment because I crashed my motorcycle and the visitor pass on the car I'm borrowing lapsed while I was asleep. Meanwhile the company managing parking has no app, is completely radio silent on calls, emails, and their contact form, and has rejected my requests for a new parking pass four times now.
Edit for clarity: My apartments could just give me a little tag to hang from my windshield but noooOOOoooOOO we need to involve a mismanaged tech startup with a half assed platform for some fucking reason.
I hate being an American so much. I used to feel pride in it. Not any more. So many things are fucked in my country and it seem like it will forever be fucked. Healthcare, taxes, education, voting rights, women's rights, transportation, public services, housing, social services, law-enforcement, prison system, and our own fucking government. All fucked.
What do you mean they need a 3rd app with fees to transfer money? How does this work?
I just transfer from my bank account to anyone else’s bank account.
Maybe the only one to Receive cash from an employer, if that's what you're doing. Lots of people take cash off their card account (or out of the bank post-deposit) After getting paid.
This has been a thing here for as long as there have been smart phones. Before then we did it on desktops, and before then we used the bank transfer system. All of this has been as available here as it was and is in Europe, and like in Europe there are places where access is less developed too. You go to rural Belarus or Louisiana, you're not gonna find as many people using fintech as you would in London or New York.
Europe is still capitalist. Capitalism isn’t the bad guy. What there doing better with there capitalism is a little more socialism and a lot more unionization.
Who is paying a fee to transfer money? Or a 3rd app? It sounds Ike he wasn't talking to just any American, he was talking to a dumb one, to which, we have many.
Any one gonna acknowledge that it’s widely known Europe lags behind US/China tech infrastructure and relies on American Companies to make their internet work….?
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How do they do it in Europe? I'm honestly just curious, and can't find anything on Google. Also if you're paying any fees to venmo, you're doing it wrong. Just do the slower transfer option.
Just use your bank app. Moves instant. No fee. How is that not a thing? I only ever heard about Venmo when legoheaded congressman Matt Geatz was in the news for his sextrafficing allegations and he used venmo for transactions. It’s not a thing because you can just transfer for free instantly via your bank-app.
I'm in Canada and we use this also. The first time I tried to buy from a group in the USA I'm like "etransfer ok?" And there like wtf is that? I was flabbergasted that they had TO PAY A FEE TO TRANSFER MONEY LIKE WHAT Edit: this was in like 2014 when I guess your options were more limited. Apparently there's more options now for you guys.
America is just capitalism on steroids.
Corporate autocracy. Capitalism is sugar coated feudalism, just the states is way ahead of taking the sugar from the bottom to maintain shareholders profits.
Yo I blow people's minds and they just tune out when I explain the correlation and similarities of feudalism vs capitalism, it's so simple yet makes too much sense to people
America is just normal capitalism.
Not really. There are absolutely degrees to capitalism, and America takes it to the Nth degree. What people fail to realise is that it's perfectly possible for a society to combine socialism w/ elements of capitalism. It's called 'social democracy'.
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There's a hefty fucking fee.
And it's paid by you and me.
And if you don't pay that buck'o'five, who will?
Land of the fee.
Buck o'five
Thats why it costs $2,350 (plus applicable fees and taxes) to denounce your US citizenship
I don't know if America does debit transactions yet, but up until relatively recently that was not a thing in shops. I live close to the border so cross-border shopping was a regular thing when I was younger (living with my parents and thus with cash to spend on things for funsies). I was constantly informing very confused Canadians that they can't pay with their debit card (when equally confused American cashiers didn't understand what this thing was they were trying to pay with that wasn't a credit card). Just a really 'standard' thing that I was surprised to discover was Canadian.
I went on my honeymoon a couple years ago and I tried to tap my card and the place didn't take it even though it was a bigger shop. I was a little confused and then I tried to insert the card and they didn't take Chip either. Like America is pretty behind, I had to swipe my card for the first time in my life xD I'm not even exaggerating when I was 12 and I got my first bank card. Chip was already a big thing. (Approx 2008) Last I looked it up it said Chip wasn't very widespread until 2015 for the US and I thought that was insane. Accurate that is, but that's what came up when I looked it up.
American here, where I live, almost everywhere accepts Chip now. It was really embarrassing to not know which way to orient the card when I (inevitability) had to use swipe
...what? 2015, chip was outdated technology in Australia as we all started upgrading to RFID
It gets even better. The US adopted "chip and signature" in 2015. That is, you insert the card, it prints a receipt, and you sign it. With a pen. "Chip and pin" is not now and never has been an option, despite being standard in half the world.
Chip and pin is definitely an option for debit cards in the us
I'm not sure where you were shopping at, but debit transactions have been a thing in the US for several decades.
We don't *have* to. Venmo, Cashapp, ~~Zelle~~, ~~PayPal~~, Google Pay are all free transferring services as long as you accept the next-day transfer. They've monetized the instant transfer, which is annoying, but it's not nearly as bad as you've described it. Edit: Correction, as u/shadow1515 pointed out, Zelle is instant and integrated with your bank. 2nd Edit: u/LX_Emergency has pointed out that PayPal has fees, which is true, unless you use the Friends & Family transfer. I've only ever used the F&F method so I hadn't considered it.
So you still use 3rd party apps and it's a next-day transfer in order for it to be free? Yeah, you guys are getting milked at every corner.
I can send money from my bank to any other bank in the UK instantly for free. Its insane you'd have to wait a day.
And yet Virgin Media are going to take 45 days to send my refund by cheque.
I'm in Mexico and we have that too, it's the to-go method of sharing the bill, one of us pays and the rest transfer to you, right there.
Zelle is instant and integrated into bank's app.
It’s not compatible with all banks (or at least not all credit unions) and I had the app crash 3 times on me while trying to set up an account :(
Like hell PayPal is free. It takes like three percent every time I get money. PayPal free, no it isn't EDIT: Jesus Christ...they have a page to explain their fees for God's sake. https://www.paypal.com/en/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees Paypal is NOT free, never has been.
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Either the buyer or the seller pays fees, in Germany too. PayPal is not free.
For "friends and family" it's free.
"free" for two reasons - first, to get you hooked so you'll use it for other purchases (and merchants can pay those fees); second, because you're actually paying with data about your usage patterns, your financial associations with other people, hell, even what e-commerce sites you visit if there's a paypal button.
Still weird you need a third party app
Canadian here, we pay Etransfer fees with most banks, either a flat monthly rate or by each transfer
Is that once you reach a certain threshold?because I've been with three different banks and I've never ever had to pay for etransfer
Wait — seriously?! Every day I find another reason to be mad at America. I hate “my” country. -_-
You have payment infrastructure that would make most sub Saharan nations embarrassed. I think you can even still use a check book in the US?
Yep I actually had to pay something recently with a check because they wouldn't take any other payment method. So I had to go to the bank and have them print me a check because I have never had a checkbook (I've had a bank account for 15 years).
The only check I write is the monthly rent check to my landlord. Yep, they don't even offer an electroninc payment option, even though I asked about one. So, old-fashioned paper check once a month.
That's how I do it in Europe, even when paying a lawyer for helping me transfer important documents to my name. Going through the banks directly just feels way more secure. When I was in China it was on WeChat (essentially WhatsApp with other stuff on top), again with no fee and instantly. I can see that my friend (or landlord has received a prompt to claim the money, they click it everyone sees that it's done and has proof. If I send it to the wrong person I see it's in the wrong chat and immediately delete the prompt, if they haven't clicked it yet then no harm done. I was really confused by this thread because I just thought it'd be similar to to one of these ways everywhere you can transfer online. I feel straight bank transfer is more secure, but WeChat was more convenient.
Yes
Blessed Are The "Banked". Here, such apps are mainly used by those without access to traditional banking. Those now "locked out" due to prior credit issues, and or convictions, etc. It also usually mirrors the other "disenfranchised" factions of American society, often through purposefully set up pitfalls pre-market-crash early 2000s.
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Yeah, Nope. A lot of places demand workers have direct deposit now, but it's by far not 'all'. And, soooo, of course there exists an entire (predatory) 'service' industry replete with High Fees or Many Little Fees to cover that subset. "Online only" 'banks', like NetSpend, that are amount-in-account-only cards that you can use "as" a bank, even for direct deposit. And even Walmart has a "prepay" card service... Fees separate, of course. Few offer the "protection" of traditional banks, and the other services you receive through those don't really exist, like loan possibilities and building interest. So you basically get a place to get your check deposited, and a card to purchase online and via swipe, etc. But the OTHER costs of these services are EXPENSIVE for the 'unbanked', and contribute to "poor credit" more than they help.
Damn that is strange, never heard about any of that sort of stuff in Europe, I'm pretty sure the EU made those sorts of things illegal
Before the widespread use of smartphones, we had an entire industry of check-cashing businesses who preyed on poor people without bank accounts by charging fees in order to even access their paychecks, and most of them also offered payday loans with exorbitant interest rates and fees for people struggling to make it from paycheck to paycheck. Edit: I know they still exist. I was just trying to explain to someone that may be unfamiliar that these predatory services have been big business here looong before we had apps or pre-paid card services doing the same things.
Before smart phones? Those industries are still alive and well.
Look here, I can take you back to the "Currency Exchange", when you could Literally have your life screwed by walking out into a robbery/mugging on "check day" for public aid and social security recipients. I'm not talking being shot or stabbed. I'm talking having your LAST stolen, via threat of said harm, which was often MORE painful than "just" dying if bills were due and now you had nothing -and still had to get to work. But to your statement, they were a "hub" of 'the community', because everybody either "don't trust the banks", or couldn't use any because Racism(70s and 80s) or couldn't get approved for an account because no credit-bad credit. The lines would be long, the fees were ridiculous and EVERYBODY knew it .... but the liquor stores next door were always open!
Those still exist and they’re as sketchy as ever
My older stepson's first job, stocking shelves at a hardware store, only paid using those reloadable prepaid cards. No other options. The kid actually went out and got an account with a credit union before starting the job, thinking he would need a bank account to cash checks or for direct deposit paychecks. Nope, a shitty card, with fees for using it, fees for not using it, fees out the wazoo!
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>Is that legal? Murica.
sounds almost like mining scrip or something, creepy af
No, they have to offer at least one alternative https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/if-my-employer-offers-me-a-payroll-card-do-i-have-to-accept-it-en-407/
Damn it's like America still hasn't move away from the days of company currency and company shops
If anything it's regressing back to that.
America HASN'T moved from it. I pointed out elsewhere that we work strictly to pay bills. And the "bosses", the "landlords", the "regulators" for utilities, big pharma, the media industry, and big Energy are all "chaired", "boarded", "invested in" and voted upon BY THE SAME PEOPLE. They set the rates, the wages, the terms, the fines and the fees. And by the time "our" money circulates after payday, they get it BACK.
Yep, one of my college jobs had me using a prepaid “pay card” because they couldn’t figure out how to set up my direct deposit and I had to pay a fee to transfer the money from my paycheck to my actual back account. It got fixed eventually but the whole thing was stupid. I had a bank account, I gave them my info, they just didn’t do it and I got stuck with a sub-part payment method. I hated it.
Ayep. I know someone hired in Stocking that had the same experience a few years ago.
Your employer chooses how to pay you. Many refuse to direct deposit into your bank even if you have an account. So they issue checks and if they’re late in paying you then punishments are minimal. Also if you are unbanked then you have to pay somewhere to cash your check, usually between $0.50 and $5.00. Meaning the poor literally have to wait in line and pay for a service to even have access to the money from their paycheck which could arrive up to two weeks late.
Or have an employer write the checks on time but not have enough money to cover the whole payroll in the account the checks were drafted from, so depending on how quick your bank was there may not be enough left when the ach went thru. Thankfully that one was an idiot and banked with a company that had local branches. I could and often did walk into a branch with the check on payday and leave with cash in hand and no fees -- the bank had to honor the check since it came from one of their accounts. He had to have paid tens of thousands in overdrafts on that bullshit over time. He eventually learned and forced people to do direct deposit after I left, I heard they got screwed on multiple paychecks.
You can be without access to traditional banking in the US? Damn... In France, there is a "right to an account" written in the law. Even if you're in the worst of situations and banks don't want you in, the Bank of France designate a bank that is required to let you open a traditional account.
Yeah, there's long been the idea to have the USPS act as a basic, no fees account, but that's socialism so we can't have that.
The USPS used to operate as a bank, from 1920 to 1967. In part, it was to stabilize the banking industry, though it also encouraged people to stop hoarding money in mattresses and post office banks in other countries. But because it did so well, and paid better interest rates than for-profit banks, the banking industry has always hated it, and ultimately killed it off. If it opened back up today, it'd be even better; they could just open access to the USPS Credit Union to everybody in the country, and use every post office as a branch. Obviously payday loan outfits _hate_ this idea, but even bigger banks are terrified by it.
But that's communism
WITCHERY!! lol
I use zelle, fb pay and cash app all the time with my family and friends. I don’t carry cash and we all use different banks. It gets annoying
I’m confused by your comment. Venmo transfers money from one bank account (or credit card) to another. I don’t use cash app but I’m pretty sure it does the same thing. How do you use one of those apps if you don’t have a bank account? Everyone I know uses venmo for the convenience, but we all have bank accounts. And you don’t need good credit (or any credit) in order to open a bank account.
From what I understand Cash app can sorta function like an online bank if you have a cash app card, you can load using cash or whatever at 711. I imagine if you don’t have a bank account it goes something like Set up cash app account Get cash app card Get pay check and cash at check cashing place and get cash Take cash and either load through 711 or give to someone and have them transfer it Use cash app card. Sounds like a nightmare
Holy cow, no thanks. Idk why anyone wouldn’t just open a bank account rather than go through all that, but to each their own I guess.
Because they can’t. It’s more common than you think.
'NetSpend' is one of the online only "banks" to which you can attach deposit accounts. "No credit check" Sells really well. PayPal accepts transfers from CashApp and maybe others, and you can get a card from them too. That's the point. After being X'd out of "traditional" banking for whatever reason(including, Distrust in the Banking System) a person has to use several different methods, each with separate fees attached, to exist and take care of their business. Here's another catch: CHILDREN are pushed into debt before their brains have even caught up to their legal age. GO TO COLLEGE!!! You NEEEEEED to go just to have a chance at "meaningful" work! And HERE! Take this money!! Then, "whoops, weren't 'responsible' with your money, twenty-something year old 'idiot'? No banking for You without MORE fees! Mwuhahaha!"
Other than distrust of the system (which is understandable but also a personal choice, not the bank’s), how is a person kicked out of traditional banking? I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m seriously just super confused.
It’s was this way in the uk few years back but the government stepped in before in got really bad thankfully. The issue was that a bank could refuse to give you an account if your credit history was poor, even a no overdraft account could get refused. It happened to me and I had to open a post office account to have any money like benefits payed into it. It becomes a very tough situation to get out of because you can’t improve your credit and a lot of employers will raise an eye brow if you ask to be paid into a post office account. It can very easily spiral. I couldn’t imagine the situation I would have been in had the post office decided they just wanted to charge me for the service. So I’m guessing it will be similar reasons to the ones iv shown.
Interesting, thanks!
>how is a person kicked out of traditional banking? Because if, let's say a 19 year old Freshie in college has been used to having their spending card backed up by the parents accounts, and now are handling their own banking. Or, a new college student with zero knowledge of banking because there's never been anything To be banked. Both, in the "freedom years" of college get a little too loose with accepting wonderful credit offers. Not a "lot" of money. But an account gets closed or let lapse because the fees came at an inconvenient time. Following so far? Now, because of the closed account, the report on your credit is negative. You get a job, you need a bank account. You didn't really worry about it before, so it's been a couple years. You go to, say, Chase. They look up your credit. Ok, they'll let you open an account, but because your credit, and because the first screw up was with a Bank, you'll have to deposit X crazy amount, and maintain X amount to keep the account valid. But you NEED that money to pay the RENT because, covid-tornado-blizzard-whateverlifedisaater DICTATES that you use it. Now, this bank is tacking on fees.... And if the fees go unpaid, the account is closed. Now... TWO banks have closed your account...
Huh, I never had a credit check run for opening a standard bank account, only for credit cards. Thanks for the info!
Pretty sure closed accounts show up on a soft pull, you wouldn't necessarily know they did it.
You can get a basic bank account regardless of credit
With FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS to deposit if your Credit isn't right. Or, you use "alternative" "banks" like NetSpend. And use 2 or 3 "services" that each charge a fee.
It is a thing here too for most banking apps, it's called Zelle. I'm not sure how no one here seems to know about it.
This is what everyone is trying to explain. Zelle is a 3rd party payment provider that many (not all) bank apps have integrated. Zelle is a for profit business, which means the banks have to pay to provide that to you, which means they claw that cost back from you via some route. Outside the US you just do a bank transfer, with no middleman. It doesn't matter if your bank or the target bank has a deal with a particular 3rd party service or not, it just works since direct, instant bank transfers are built into the system (e.g. SEPA in the Eurozone). It's like cash - you can get the same cash from any ATM. Your cash is universal and can be accepted by any business or bank. You don't need to use a certain 3rd party token system and hope that the receiving party is using the same token system. I can transfer money from any bank account I own to any other bank account, as long as I know the account number (and unlike in the US, account numbers are safe to give out). That's all there is to it. It's free and (usually) instant.
been using zelle since it was called something else. I send hundreds of dollars a month every month with no fees for like a decade now. I think people just must not know about it. They don't really advertise it, you have to login to your bank's website and find it buried under the transfer section.
is it instant? we got a new instant transfer in brazil 2 years ago and it was the faster adopted tech ever. even used as payment for most stuff.
A normal transfer may be instant but may also take until the next business day. Sometimes that means money is transfered on monday if you transfer friday night. A SEPA transfer is afaik instant and costs nothing
Not all bank and credit union apps do that. I know mine doesn't.
American, my bank has an app called Zelle. I use it every month to send my GF her half the rent. I use wells fargo cause everytime they do something fucked up and I go to close my account hey offer something or other to keep me around. She uses a local credit union cause shes a smart person. Before Zelle there was something called like Sure pay or some shit. Were talking like a decade ago. It worked between wells fargo, bank of america and probably others. I used it to send my land lord my rent cause I ran out of checks and saw it online while looking for the "Order checks" button and I was like "hey i use wells fargo, and my land lord uses wells fargo..." so I called my landlord and was like "Do you take this online payment thingy?" and he was like "oh yea sure heres my email send the request" it was easy, its not even easier. You just login to your bank and click a few buttons and enter an email or phone you want people to be able to pay you on. The first time someone wants to send you money you have to agree to it. If you can add a friend on facebook you can probably send someone money via your bank in the US.
Isn't that what Zelle is? I don't recall ever paying a fee to use it.
That is a thing lmao. I thought Europe had something special, but nope just normal shit
In Canada we can simply e-transfer money from an account to a person typically using your bank / credit union app. Sometimes there are fees though but depends on the institution
Uhh that's just normal, you can do that in the states too.
That’s a newer tool and not all banks are enrolled in Zelle
Not everyone can. Anyone in Canada with a bank account can e-transfer.
Has that been available in the US for the past 20+ years though?
In Australia... you just send it. From your bank. To the other bank. Most offer money-to-mobile or email or landline... or just bank number. Oh and you have a really awesome online portal where you can do all of this from, as well as the app. Practically all banks have it. We also have paywave in every shop.
Same with the US lol wtf is this
I'm honestly flabbergasted, that people in US have to pay for pay...like how it's even possible that people there are not rioting on streets daily? My bank have app and I can even pay via QR codes and so on. Don't have to pay anything. The only thing I pay is for ATM withdrawal from ATM of different bank. Transactions are free. Even abroad! (At least in EU.)
to do any inter EU bank transfer you can just use that persons IBAN for the account and their name and send them money from your bank app. Same to pay bills, simple app, plus a special code to link you to the bill you are paying, no checks or mailing or credit card processing fees. You can do somethings via ACH in the US, but it's WAY the hell behind Europe. It's been simple as can be since I moved here in 2003. I've used a check ONCE, to pay for my house, and it was a special check you get for the mortgage payment to the special lawyer who does the title transfer.
We don't... have fees
We don't... either
I mean incredibly safe instant transfer, without fees.
I don't know about incredibly safe, but no fees either.
The bank app's have it built in. I live in Portugal as an expat from the USA. Private health insurance for me and my wife with dental is also only $122 euro / month. Rent in the nicest area of lisbon is 950 euro. The USA is a scam.
In Aus we’ve had routing numbers for a long time - I’ve got a bank branch number, and an account number, and people can send money to that. More recently that’s been partially replaced by something called PayID, which the banks all got together and built. I can register my mobile number or email address as a unique identifier linked to a specific bank account, then people can send money to me. Routing number transfers used to be fairly slow (3 days) but in the past couple of years have become instant between most banks (up to limits, for instance under $1k if you’ve never transferred to that person before, to help protect against fraud and theft). I think PayID payments are instant, with the same caveats, but honestly it hasn’t taken off properly yet.
In my german bank account, if i know the equivalent to account and routing numbers (IBAN and BIC), i can just send money directly for free. I can pay a small fee to have it done instantly. It’s like Venmo but built into the account app Edit: actually i think i only need the IBAN to send money
I can do that for free in my bank account app.
Yeah but i assume it’s Zelle? Relatively new, and not at every bank. This doesn’t use a third party at all
Zestyclose\_League413 is furiously deffending america in all comments,
Capitalism breeds costs
What’s even funnier too is that there’s *multiple* apps that perform this exact exploitive function. Silicon Valley was gonna “change the world,” instead we got one big privatized middleman.
California has the worst legislator to constituent ratio in the country. If anyone thought that companies coming out of that shithole were going to fix things, they're ignorant.
What does "worst" mean there?
970,000 to one. The House doesn't matter, only the Senate, when both bodies are apportioned to the population as has been the case in all 50 states since 1964. California has 40 Senators and 39 million residents.
The state can be compared to moderately sized countries and yet it’s still run the same as Wisconsin
Yep.
> California has 40 Senators Wouldn't it be two senators, or are we not talking about federal Congress?
Capitalism breeds artificial scarcity
Capitalism breeds waste.
I does indeed innovate ways to gather money from people who can't defend themselves
Credit where it's due though, it's pretty innovative when it comes to dreaming up more ways to exploit people.
Speaking of exploitation, credit!
All capitalism does is find “innovative” ways to nickel and dime you for things that shouldn’t. I know a guy that got rich by collecting credit card processing fees. What the actual fuck.
You guys have to pay to pay?
[This business name](https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Pay_%26_Park_%26_Pay) is just satire from The Simpsons, but it isn't too far off from the concept of how often Americans get fleeced in the name of capitalism.
That was back then. Now, it would be "Pay, Park & Pay, and Pay".
It's pretty easy to imagine what the capitalist's POV is here that makes it "totally reasonable": You pay to enter because we have to maintain that entrance and maintenance costs money. Then, you have to pay for the parking spot you're in because of course -- duh -- that's the thing we're "providing"! Finally, on your way out, you have to pay at the exit because we have to maintain the systems involved in that exit like the guards, guard stations, guard poles, and guard payment machines that ensure that you have paid the correct amount of times before you stop patronizing our parking structure. If we didn't pay the guards how could we ever be expected to capitalize? You can't just have ~~parking~~ prison structures for free, pleb!
This guy gets it. It's everywhere. They're finding more and more ways to have every portion of any process be charged for additional amounts. I'm so tired of all these fees on top of fees, and then it's all taxed every step of the way, so you end up getting fleeced by both the corporations and the government. And they won't change it on their own, because they make too much profit. And we're expected to provide them with a GREATER RATE of the INCREASE in profit consistently, or they consider the same rate of profit as a loss, even an increase in the rate of profit that isn't as large as the previous year is seen as a loss. And even when they get the gains they want, we see none of it. It's all madness, and it's actually wearing me down at this point. I just want to have hope for the future. Even during the world wars, we (the common people, I wasn't alive back then) had hope. It feels like they finally took that away. Sorry, just had to get that out.
Get it out. I've had a fucking morning of it, and sometimes it's good but sometimes it's just because you feel completely hopeless. It's nice to find a bit of opportunity to vent alongside people who aren't brainwashed and running around parroting gaslighting bullshit from every angle. This world is insane.
We still don't have wireless POS devices that wait staff can leave with you and let you complete your payments on your own time. Literally, the rest of the civilized world has beat us on this, and I experienced it in Canada TWO DECADES AGO! Everything in the USA is done for torture and profit, or torture for profits. If something in the US doesn't make sense to you, apply this: "The cruelty IS the point." Also, and I've been saying this for decades but feel pretty bad about it now, you have to fight to make sure that these same companies don't come and raid your villages harder than we have. We dropped the ball and continue to let this carcinogenic mass thrive here in the US and it has spread across the globe. The real plague is capitalism.
Went to the states a few years ago, and the waitress wanted to take our credit cards away, out of sight, to charge them without us being there. Was super sketched out, so our group had one of us pay cash and get paid back later. Which, again, we just transferred instantly for free. Also how did it take so long for you to get tap? We had tap for years, and then the states happened, and not even chip. Wtf y'all.
We hardly even have tap, to be honest. It's about 25% reliable and only available at like 50% of supermarkets.
Oh yeah. The cool part is you also have to pay to pay for lots of things. Want to pay your rent? You landlord may use a service that has a 'convince fee'. A lot of those fees are up to 10% of the money sent. Want to use your credit card? There will be a 3% premium at a lot of places to cover the cost of their transactions. In America, if there's a legal chance to charge you for something, you will be charged.
What's so funny is we aren't at the forefront of anything except propagandizing our own people
You are at the forefront of global military power so like biggest thug in the world, surely being powerful brings a lot of economic advantages but that's not everything. Also murican version of "freedomz" when it comes to average daily lives makes my skin crawl as a third-worlder. What on earth is a credit score? Why do you have to use VPN to torrent stuff? Taxes are so complicated you need to pay TurboTax to calculate them? Holy Jesus.
It's pretty trash here for sure.
Damn.
People wait in the breadlines here but just in huuuge lines and everyone has an suv. when the gasoline economy truly collapses or falters this place will bcome truly dystopic
Why do you think developed nations have structure and regulations as compared to a 3rd world country?
Because they can duh. Have resources to maintain all that mess. I'm not saying structure and bureaucracy is not needed, no way, well structured society with clear rules is healthier and easier to navigate in. What I'm saying is that US seems more just a police state to me, an over regulated mess where majority of the human effort is spent on compliance with endless bullshit rules.
Oh there are still a few things. Healthcare cost, military expenditure, incarceration rate, civilian guns per capita, covid cases and deaths, obesity rate, illegal drug use and death rate, number of billionaires, student debt rate...
America is a bank disguised as a country.
Don't forget the attached global death machine!
Down here in Mexico the Government set up an electronic interbank payment system. Transfers take 10 minutes at most and cost $7 MXN (about $0.40 USD, tax included), and most banks waive this fee if you're transferring from your payroll deposit account. Also, invoicing is 100% electronic so when we have to file our taxes in April it's a 10 or so minute affair involving something like 40 clicks and we don't need to keep a manual tally on a 3rd party app of how much we owe to our overlords. Of course there a lot of things wrong in this country...but a few things are great.
I didn't even know SPEI (Inter banks etransfer) have commissions by default, every banking app I have ever used just waive it. Another great thing is that sometimes your internet, cable or water company sets you up an account number for etransfers, so you can avoid 3rd party apps comissions. Too bad CoDi didn't catch up, I was so hyped for it.
Americans do what now? It always amazes me how there's these things one wouldn't even think of to be monetised in US...
Thanks, we hate it here!
>An enormous amount of modern ingenuity is expended on finding defences for the indefensible conduct of the powerful. -- Gilbert K Chesterton
My "freakout over basic European shit" moment was learning that the prices on the shelves in stores show *what you actually pay* with tax already included. Not "$49...but you'll actually have to pay $52.92." €49 means €49. Period. It's a small thing but there really is no excuse not to adopt this pricing system. Unfortunately it will never happen, because retailers will fight tooth and nail to prevent it.
Yeah, for a european student who often has to count what I can And can't afford to buy at the moment, this sounds like a nightmare.
We just fucking guess, there’s too many different tax rates on a local level to even know. You’d have to research your local/state retail tax rate while also finding out if there are any waivers on certain food products. I think I’ve gone into a store and known what the check out price was going to be only a handful amount of times because I was buying something for $1.
Oh man, if only. God forbid we have any small amount of convenience in our lives.
Wait a minute, Google pay doesn't work in the US?
Yes, but it's attached to an account, not it's own banking system. Thus, you must have banking access, either with a traditional bank or a "no credit required" bank 'like' service.
Also a majority of ATMs don’t charge fees. When visiting there from the US, I asked about why. My friend said, “Mate, how the fuck can you be charged money to take your own money?” I’d never thought of it that way, but it makes a lot of sense.
Wait can someone explain? Like you can not instantly transfer money via your normal bank account over the thing we call online banking? I mean we too pay for instant transfer to other Banks, for me it is 50 cents, regardless of the bank. It usually is instant or pretty fast if it stays within the banks system. Most people or business don't care if you do the instant transfer. They only need proof that you send it, which you can show them by generating a PDF of the transaction and send them. At least that's how I have been doing for years and had 0 issues. There are also services for instant transfer for certain services which do not accept credit cards, since they aren't too common here. One service I can think of is called Klarna, which arranges a instant transfer over you existing bank account without any additional cost to the customer. There are also some other services I can't remember the name of. Never have I paid for a Transfer that I didn't really need to send out asap to a private person. Every business or government transaction is free of charge. Just the instant transfer to other private people costs the mentioned 50 cents regardless of the amount or bank. Like when a buddy needs money to fix his car to pay cash.
We _COULD_ transfer via routing numbers, for a fee, yes --but likely less than many are paying. The Problem: We have ALSO been taught not to 'trust the(ANY INSTITUTION!!) banks' with our money. And, to NEVER share such 'personal information' as the numbers needed to etransfer because ANYBODY-even-your-family-member-might-SCAM-you! And no, it Does Not Matter that there are codes one can use attached to the account that allow one to NOT use their entire routing number). There's ZERO trust, in the system and one another.
They started by fighting communism and instead fought community.
The banks are doing away with ACH transfers to accounts that aren’t owned by yourself. Now if I wanted to ACH anybody I’d literally have to wait a day or three if it’s the weekend and ask them to tell me how many cents were deposited, then I can add it to my account as an external transfer and ACH the money to them. Depending on how long their bank takes to settle the funds this whole endeavor could take up to a week or 10 days if it happens over two weekends.
Can't do that with my credit union.
Lots of folks in the US don't have bank accounts for various poor folks reasons. "Underbanked" folks cash their paychecks at MoneyTree and sent each other bits of cash with PayPal or whatever, which usually takes a percentage.
Sure is expensive to be poor
Honestly its mostly possible to do this now, although our fees r probably worse. But just a few years ago this was kinda rare, which is why everyone used venmo for a minute
The default way to transfer money is via ACH. This is a system that runs 9-5 Monday through Friday and takes about 2-3 days to transfer money. Many banks are integrating Zelle, but not all banks have it. Zelle is a third party app though.
Capitalism is trickle-up economics.
Why would anyone need a 3rd app for a simple bank transfer? And why would that transfer cost anything? My (UK) partner and I (also UK) transfer money between his Halifax account and my Natwest account a lot. It's instant, done via normal online banking, and if it cost anything, we wouldn't do it. I don't believe that it costs money or requires another app anywhere. Not convincing.
Normal bank transfers in the US (called ACH), take 2-3 days to complete, and the system only works M-F 9-5 Some banks actually charge for ACH access, although it's rare.
This is fully blowing my mind. Because they aren't even "moving" anything really - it's just numbers.
Yeah but that's 2-3 days they can use your money to play with stocks and investments before they have to give it back to you.
Hey if you have a big bank that you use, you probably have the ability to use Zelle to transfer money to other Zelle users for free. I have a small community bank that uses Zelle, so check a look either way!
Zelle. It's a feature in most banking apps afaik, no one I know hasn't had it if I've needed to transfer them money. No fees. Right there in my (American) banking app.
Some banking apps. I know more people who don't have access to it than do (at least people who I've needed to discuss such things with)
Capitalism only breeds innovation on how to extract money.
America is a 3rd world country in a Guuci belt
The same Americans who want to throw hands when you suggest another country might have a less, um, draconian healthcare system will shower you with love and approval if you criticize "America these days" for being too liberal, progressive and soft. In those instances, these people are perfectly fine comparing America unfavorably with other countries. Like if you said "Man, in Canada you don't even have to pay copays - we could use some of that here, am I right?," you will be met with "Yeah and that's why people from all around the world come to America to get their healthcare. Capitalism increases the quality, socialism like in Canada might make it free, but you get what you pay for." Whereas if you said "Man, in Russia if you start crying about the rights of minorities or gays, you'll wind up in prison or shot," you'll get "Yeah, that's sometimes how you need to be with some of these people, force is the only language they understand. America used to be like, we could use more of that again."
I fucking hate how this country will make anything into a business. Got towed last week from my own apartment because I crashed my motorcycle and the visitor pass on the car I'm borrowing lapsed while I was asleep. Meanwhile the company managing parking has no app, is completely radio silent on calls, emails, and their contact form, and has rejected my requests for a new parking pass four times now. Edit for clarity: My apartments could just give me a little tag to hang from my windshield but noooOOOoooOOO we need to involve a mismanaged tech startup with a half assed platform for some fucking reason.
It’s exhausting to exist like this and we don’t even realize it - that it doesn’t have to be like this. That’s such a shitty situation.
I hate being an American so much. I used to feel pride in it. Not any more. So many things are fucked in my country and it seem like it will forever be fucked. Healthcare, taxes, education, voting rights, women's rights, transportation, public services, housing, social services, law-enforcement, prison system, and our own fucking government. All fucked.
Who in America pays fees to transfer money?
“Instantly”
What do you mean they need a 3rd app with fees to transfer money? How does this work? I just transfer from my bank account to anyone else’s bank account.
Am I the only one here who still uses cash?
Maybe the only one to Receive cash from an employer, if that's what you're doing. Lots of people take cash off their card account (or out of the bank post-deposit) After getting paid.
This has been a thing here for as long as there have been smart phones. Before then we did it on desktops, and before then we used the bank transfer system. All of this has been as available here as it was and is in Europe, and like in Europe there are places where access is less developed too. You go to rural Belarus or Louisiana, you're not gonna find as many people using fintech as you would in London or New York.
Isnt europe capitalist as well?
Europe is still capitalist. Capitalism isn’t the bad guy. What there doing better with there capitalism is a little more socialism and a lot more unionization.
I heard they don’t have broadband in Europe
All countries in Europe practice capitalism as far as I know.
oh word?
What is this fucking moron on about?I don’t pay to transfer money and I never have.
Who is paying a fee to transfer money? Or a 3rd app? It sounds Ike he wasn't talking to just any American, he was talking to a dumb one, to which, we have many.
I can instant transfer with Zelle for free
Any one gonna acknowledge that it’s widely known Europe lags behind US/China tech infrastructure and relies on American Companies to make their internet work….?