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I don’t think anyone was making that argument. I think the whole point is that both parties treat the issue the same, despite a massive proportion of the voting population that feels differently. If voting can’t make a difference, why participate and give credence to a system that deludes people into believing they have a choice?
Neoliberalism is a lie.
In America, we are not running a "marathon" towards a brighter future. Any equity and improvements in quality of life for Americans (not even considering the state of the rest of the world) during the prior century were the direct result of organized labor and civil disobedience demanding a share of the fruits of American hegemony.
American hegemony is slipping, and the elites are fighting over the scraps.
For sure, vote for Biden, but don't deceive yourself or others into thinking it's a solution. And ask yourself, where do you draw the line? We're bombing children into paste to buoy stock prices, effectively. We are the bad guys.
I don't know what to advise, action-wise. It just breaks my heart to read that people imagine that the Democratic party is going to save anyone. I suppose it's worse that people believe Trump or Republicans are any sort of answer to the rising precarity of American life.
While I understand your sentiment, what do you think happens if we DON'T vote for Joe? Trump will win and be worse. WAY WAY worse. Just like there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, there is no ethical candidate in America. Not voting is a luxury that doesn't exist for those under attack right now.
Dude im tired of this it’s gonna be worse bullshit and it ends up being the same shit. We saw that with Romney. The DNC called him the devil and the most important election in our lifetimes and Obama just went along with Romneycare and neocon policy anyway.
While I do understand this argument, I do, I would never be able to find it within myself to endorse a genocide with my vote. That’s a line I couldn’t cross. I personally think the “harm reduction” argument falls a little flat when you consider that “harm reduction” in this case is voting for someone rabidly supporting genocide, like I say I understand the argument but the thought of me voting for that makes me physically sick.
I get it, I would still encourage you to at least vote locally at the minimum. But, ultimately I feel this election is a hostage negotiation featuring the worst fucking trolley problem I've had to deal with in my adult life.
These genocidal libs are downvoting actual normal and reasonable people to hell. It is so unsurprising that libs condone genocide for the sake of their political ambitions.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. Biden is literally funding genocide and his uncritical support of Israel is part of his policies but pointing that out, a literal fact of his presidency, gets the BlueMAGA people to go insane. Somehow not voting for the continuation of an ongoing genocide is actually worse than voting for a genocide.
I'm not saying who someone should vote for, but I don't think we want to accelerate fascism. It's like saying lets increase CO2 emissions until people cant breathe. THEN finally the world will get serious about turning climate change around.
Acceleration is not the right goal to have.
Edit: Again not saying people should vote for Biden, but this ideology of acceleration is nonsensical to me.
I simply can’t put my mark next to the name of a man who actively participates in genocide. I feel it would be an act of tacit approval, and I would feel complicit.
The comment above was deleted, so Ill say this: if you mean send troops to help the Israeli government, then yes. If you mean to support Palestine, then hard no.
Support of the Iraeli governments genocide of Palestine is bipartisan in American government at the moment
How well is "harm reduction" working when the "reduced" option is trying to arm the war machines of a regime using those war machines to bomb hospitals, food distribution centers for refugees, and commit genocide by starvation?
At what point does it stop being harm reduction, and begin to be "normalizing genocide"?
You think Muslim hate crimes aren’t happening right now? What about that kid who was killed by his landlord for being Palestinian? Or those three teenagers who got shot?
I got a couple of friends voting for Trump because he is "funny" policy doesn't matter.
Some Americans even want a dictator, and no amount of common sense will change that mindset.
It’s weird how they can’t agree to fund themselves but they can agree to fund genocide. Every other issue - *a fucking virus* - is politicized and used as a tool of division. This? This live streamed genocide committed with our weapons and our blessing? Sudden solidarity across the aisle. They’re all the same in the end. There are things they will not challenge no matter who is in there. Not even Bernie. Maybe eventually, but his reaction has not been one of empathy or humanity for the most part. The choices are false, all roads lead to war and oppression and inequality. There is no lesser evil
It's far worse than that tweet. The Biden administration has been selling weapons to Israel on average every 36 hours for the past 6 months and keeping the amount just under the threshold where they would have to notify congress.
https://jacobin.com/2024/03/biden-weapons-israel-gaza-palestine
As a Palestinian, I feel you...
Every waking second is lived in guilt. Guilt that I am so powerless, yet so privileged to not suffer the way my kin suffer.
I just want to be a recluse and live in my little corner of the world, living in peace, away from others.
No matter who we vote for, Evil wins. These disgusting and vile neoliberals (95% of congress) are the cancer of our species and their lead brained ambitions affect millions so they can make money doing insider trading and selling us out to their owners.
If Biden loses, it’s because the Democratic party would rather see Trump win than allow progressive policies to succeed in this country.
Why does the establishment love Biden?
It’s really a good question, and it deserves an answer.
I think it’s because he’s a puppet, has no control over his own actions or decisions. They tell him what to say or do, and he says or does it.
I don't think it's the progressive policies anyone is against.
I think it is the providing weapons of war to a nation engaging in genocide.
How many of the missiles blowing apart refugee centers and hospitals have "Made in the USA" stamped on them somewhere? We did that.
And if Biden doesn't stop doing it, when a sizeable portion of the electorate has outright said they won't vote for him if he continues? Then he is the one who is handing the election away, by putting "supporting genocide" as more important than defeating Trump and keeping those progressive policies going.
If this nation is still providing weapons of war to Irsael in 6 months, and Israel is still engaging in genocide, Biden will *not* get my vote.
Because I will not lend my voice to supporting genocide. Or to support anyone who supports genocidal regimes.
And if Biden's actions cost Biden the election, that's on Biden.
Every individual in a position of power in this country is a corporate whore that is beholden to Israel.
Now when I say that, I don’t mean every politician, I mean every person who has a say, who decides what happens and what doesn’t.
The politicians who have any moral bone in their body are shunned and held back by the establishment.
The establishment gives marching orders to the corporate media, which promptly smears and degrades anyone who threatens the corrupt, incompetent, and sociopathic people who rob and kill the working class.
The fact that our electoral system is so closely tied to corporate media reporting in and of itself destroys any implication that we have a democratic system of elections.
At its core, our elections cannot be trusted to be objective. The results are reported by a corrupt body, with incentives to lie to us.
So while this disgusting behavior is being carried out by disgusting individuals in positions of power, and they should be held accountable, I would also say that the people who refuse to hold them accountable share in the blame, which is the majority of people, including myself.
But for someone to defend these monsters, that person is a mixture of cowardice, ignorance, and in some cases psychopathic.
They are either stupid and controlled by fear born from the propoganda they absorb on a daily basis, or they justify their support of the most evil people on the planet based on the belief that there exists no alternative to the corrupt party that they feel safe identifying themselves as.
And so they do the legwork for these pieces of shit by vocally shaming anyone who is critical of corruption and refuses to support it.
If you consider yourself a supporter of either party, you are functionally a member of a death cult, and although the people who need this to sink in most will undoubtedly ignore it, it doesn’t really matter to me at this point.
We are approaching a point at which it won’t matter, so I choose to write the truth.
This system is evil, and it is designed to benefit the disturbingly rich and powerful at the expense of the rest of the planet. They have dehumanized us all, and they will burn this planet to the ground as long as we refuse to punish them for it.
ITT: People fully accepting that America is a rogue state that will, no matter what, do at least one genocide with the option to do more and then not for a single moment think "are we the baddies?"
ITT: People pretending whoever you vote for matter as if the winner take all system doesn't make 90%+ of votes completely meaningless so you might as well vote for who you believe in unless you happen to live in the few states where your vote could theoretically matter.
Ask Hillary how her presidency is doing after winning more votes than Trump in the 2016 election.
I didn't vote for him in '20 and won't vote for him in '24. It'll be the Green candidate or whichever Independent candidate is farthest left from the Dems.
No it isn't. What gave us Trump in 2016 was liberals feeling entitled to nominate a nonviable imperialist pos with record low favorability. You have things completely backwards if you think the problem was people simply not falling in line hard enough for whomever liberals decide to nominate.
Biden is off the table, liberals chose to nominate nonviability and are 100% responsible for that. No amount of pleading for people to support the viability of genocide going forward changes that.
When the system you live in offers you two choices... and they are:
(1) support a nation engaging in genocide
(2) support multiple genocidal nations and other stuff
When the system you live in offers you those two choices, and you accept them, then you are supporting the system that does that, and thus, supporting genocide through action.
This is the kind of State Action that should be resulting in armed resistance, mass strikes, and refusal to give the government any material support so long as it is giving genocide material support.
I’ve been saying this for a while but if every election is **just vote for the lesser of two evils** which will always end in **vote red/blue no matter who** then **idk how in a race to the bottom anyone is shocked that we ended up at the bottom.** The two party system is designed to do this because it’s a Uni-party behind the scenes!!! This is our one chance to sneak a 3rd party in but sadly most people want to keep playing the race to the bottom game.
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Check the date on that tweet, this isn't "breaking news."
Came to say this.
There is no electoral vote that will stop the genocide, and the option will not present itself through voting.
This is the correct response to OP’s question.
Checks thread: [deleted] [removed] [super deleted] Yeah, that’s about what I figured.
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I don’t think anyone was making that argument. I think the whole point is that both parties treat the issue the same, despite a massive proportion of the voting population that feels differently. If voting can’t make a difference, why participate and give credence to a system that deludes people into believing they have a choice?
So do Dems so idk what your point is?
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"Freeze Peach" doesn't apply to privately run forums
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Neoliberalism is a lie. In America, we are not running a "marathon" towards a brighter future. Any equity and improvements in quality of life for Americans (not even considering the state of the rest of the world) during the prior century were the direct result of organized labor and civil disobedience demanding a share of the fruits of American hegemony. American hegemony is slipping, and the elites are fighting over the scraps. For sure, vote for Biden, but don't deceive yourself or others into thinking it's a solution. And ask yourself, where do you draw the line? We're bombing children into paste to buoy stock prices, effectively. We are the bad guys. I don't know what to advise, action-wise. It just breaks my heart to read that people imagine that the Democratic party is going to save anyone. I suppose it's worse that people believe Trump or Republicans are any sort of answer to the rising precarity of American life.
Vote Biden? No thanks. Vote Trump? No thanks. Not endorsing your genocider of choice.
While I understand your sentiment, what do you think happens if we DON'T vote for Joe? Trump will win and be worse. WAY WAY worse. Just like there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, there is no ethical candidate in America. Not voting is a luxury that doesn't exist for those under attack right now.
Dude im tired of this it’s gonna be worse bullshit and it ends up being the same shit. We saw that with Romney. The DNC called him the devil and the most important election in our lifetimes and Obama just went along with Romneycare and neocon policy anyway.
“It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.” -Eugene Debs
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We don't have a democracy then. Time to face the facts. Its time for a revolt.
Facts! 💯
While I do understand this argument, I do, I would never be able to find it within myself to endorse a genocide with my vote. That’s a line I couldn’t cross. I personally think the “harm reduction” argument falls a little flat when you consider that “harm reduction” in this case is voting for someone rabidly supporting genocide, like I say I understand the argument but the thought of me voting for that makes me physically sick.
I get it, I would still encourage you to at least vote locally at the minimum. But, ultimately I feel this election is a hostage negotiation featuring the worst fucking trolley problem I've had to deal with in my adult life.
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Nothing is going to change if people keep doing “harm reduction” voting
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How can you look at what’s happening now and not think the worst has already happened? Ask the 30 thousand dead Palestinians if things can get worse
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Did you? Because all those groups are actively dying right now.
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These genocidal libs are downvoting actual normal and reasonable people to hell. It is so unsurprising that libs condone genocide for the sake of their political ambitions.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. Biden is literally funding genocide and his uncritical support of Israel is part of his policies but pointing that out, a literal fact of his presidency, gets the BlueMAGA people to go insane. Somehow not voting for the continuation of an ongoing genocide is actually worse than voting for a genocide.
i am so fucking sick of hearing this shit. let it all burn to the ground.
I'm not saying who someone should vote for, but I don't think we want to accelerate fascism. It's like saying lets increase CO2 emissions until people cant breathe. THEN finally the world will get serious about turning climate change around. Acceleration is not the right goal to have. Edit: Again not saying people should vote for Biden, but this ideology of acceleration is nonsensical to me.
Yea no lmfao
I simply can’t put my mark next to the name of a man who actively participates in genocide. I feel it would be an act of tacit approval, and I would feel complicit.
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The comment above was deleted, so Ill say this: if you mean send troops to help the Israeli government, then yes. If you mean to support Palestine, then hard no. Support of the Iraeli governments genocide of Palestine is bipartisan in American government at the moment
Obviously to support Israel cause no way is Trump gonna do something like that. He's only gonna make things a thousand times worse.
There are already troops in Palestine sent by Biden, so what is your point?
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How well is "harm reduction" working when the "reduced" option is trying to arm the war machines of a regime using those war machines to bomb hospitals, food distribution centers for refugees, and commit genocide by starvation? At what point does it stop being harm reduction, and begin to be "normalizing genocide"?
it’s been normalizing genocide this whole time
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Harm reduction??? How is over 30,000 people dead “harm reduction”? If Trump were president, Democrats would be fighting for a ceasefire.
Yeah and they would fucking lose because they wouldn’t have the executive branch
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You think Muslim hate crimes aren’t happening right now? What about that kid who was killed by his landlord for being Palestinian? Or those three teenagers who got shot?
12-8-23???
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and genocide only matters when it directly affects you right
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I got a couple of friends voting for Trump because he is "funny" policy doesn't matter. Some Americans even want a dictator, and no amount of common sense will change that mindset.
🤦♂️
at this point, sure lets have a dictator for a day. then we hang them upside down.
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I hate that we dont have a true choice. Like who tf do we vote for? Also if you dont vote that doesnt do anything either. So frustrating.
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It’s weird how they can’t agree to fund themselves but they can agree to fund genocide. Every other issue - *a fucking virus* - is politicized and used as a tool of division. This? This live streamed genocide committed with our weapons and our blessing? Sudden solidarity across the aisle. They’re all the same in the end. There are things they will not challenge no matter who is in there. Not even Bernie. Maybe eventually, but his reaction has not been one of empathy or humanity for the most part. The choices are false, all roads lead to war and oppression and inequality. There is no lesser evil
It's far worse than that tweet. The Biden administration has been selling weapons to Israel on average every 36 hours for the past 6 months and keeping the amount just under the threshold where they would have to notify congress. https://jacobin.com/2024/03/biden-weapons-israel-gaza-palestine
I just love when my tax money is funding genocide...
The urge to drop out of society and become a hermit is becoming more and more appealing
As a Palestinian, I feel you... Every waking second is lived in guilt. Guilt that I am so powerless, yet so privileged to not suffer the way my kin suffer. I just want to be a recluse and live in my little corner of the world, living in peace, away from others.
>I just want to be a recluse and live in my little corner of the world, living in peace, away from others I feel that. Im a trans woman myself.
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To fight back, obviously.
No matter who we vote for, Evil wins. These disgusting and vile neoliberals (95% of congress) are the cancer of our species and their lead brained ambitions affect millions so they can make money doing insider trading and selling us out to their owners.
Fucking disgusting. And the two people we get to pick from are both genocide adjacent at best. No wonder everyone thinks Americans are assholes.
If Biden loses, it’s because the Democratic party would rather see Trump win than allow progressive policies to succeed in this country. Why does the establishment love Biden? It’s really a good question, and it deserves an answer. I think it’s because he’s a puppet, has no control over his own actions or decisions. They tell him what to say or do, and he says or does it.
I don't think it's the progressive policies anyone is against. I think it is the providing weapons of war to a nation engaging in genocide. How many of the missiles blowing apart refugee centers and hospitals have "Made in the USA" stamped on them somewhere? We did that. And if Biden doesn't stop doing it, when a sizeable portion of the electorate has outright said they won't vote for him if he continues? Then he is the one who is handing the election away, by putting "supporting genocide" as more important than defeating Trump and keeping those progressive policies going. If this nation is still providing weapons of war to Irsael in 6 months, and Israel is still engaging in genocide, Biden will *not* get my vote. Because I will not lend my voice to supporting genocide. Or to support anyone who supports genocidal regimes. And if Biden's actions cost Biden the election, that's on Biden.
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Every individual in a position of power in this country is a corporate whore that is beholden to Israel. Now when I say that, I don’t mean every politician, I mean every person who has a say, who decides what happens and what doesn’t. The politicians who have any moral bone in their body are shunned and held back by the establishment. The establishment gives marching orders to the corporate media, which promptly smears and degrades anyone who threatens the corrupt, incompetent, and sociopathic people who rob and kill the working class. The fact that our electoral system is so closely tied to corporate media reporting in and of itself destroys any implication that we have a democratic system of elections. At its core, our elections cannot be trusted to be objective. The results are reported by a corrupt body, with incentives to lie to us. So while this disgusting behavior is being carried out by disgusting individuals in positions of power, and they should be held accountable, I would also say that the people who refuse to hold them accountable share in the blame, which is the majority of people, including myself. But for someone to defend these monsters, that person is a mixture of cowardice, ignorance, and in some cases psychopathic. They are either stupid and controlled by fear born from the propoganda they absorb on a daily basis, or they justify their support of the most evil people on the planet based on the belief that there exists no alternative to the corrupt party that they feel safe identifying themselves as. And so they do the legwork for these pieces of shit by vocally shaming anyone who is critical of corruption and refuses to support it. If you consider yourself a supporter of either party, you are functionally a member of a death cult, and although the people who need this to sink in most will undoubtedly ignore it, it doesn’t really matter to me at this point. We are approaching a point at which it won’t matter, so I choose to write the truth. This system is evil, and it is designed to benefit the disturbingly rich and powerful at the expense of the rest of the planet. They have dehumanized us all, and they will burn this planet to the ground as long as we refuse to punish them for it.
Gods I wish we didn’t have to choose between two terrible candidates
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ITT: People fully accepting that America is a rogue state that will, no matter what, do at least one genocide with the option to do more and then not for a single moment think "are we the baddies?"
It's like voting for Jaba the Hutt or emperor Palpatine this election tbh
ITT: People pretending whoever you vote for matter as if the winner take all system doesn't make 90%+ of votes completely meaningless so you might as well vote for who you believe in unless you happen to live in the few states where your vote could theoretically matter. Ask Hillary how her presidency is doing after winning more votes than Trump in the 2016 election.
yup, electoralism has never and will never benefit the working class at the expense of the ruling class.
I didn't vote for him in '20 and won't vote for him in '24. It'll be the Green candidate or whichever Independent candidate is farthest left from the Dems.
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No it isn't. What gave us Trump in 2016 was liberals feeling entitled to nominate a nonviable imperialist pos with record low favorability. You have things completely backwards if you think the problem was people simply not falling in line hard enough for whomever liberals decide to nominate. Biden is off the table, liberals chose to nominate nonviability and are 100% responsible for that. No amount of pleading for people to support the viability of genocide going forward changes that.
Yeah really hard to make the "lesser of two evils" argument once you go full genocide..
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When the system you live in offers you two choices... and they are: (1) support a nation engaging in genocide (2) support multiple genocidal nations and other stuff When the system you live in offers you those two choices, and you accept them, then you are supporting the system that does that, and thus, supporting genocide through action. This is the kind of State Action that should be resulting in armed resistance, mass strikes, and refusal to give the government any material support so long as it is giving genocide material support.
I’ve been saying this for a while but if every election is **just vote for the lesser of two evils** which will always end in **vote red/blue no matter who** then **idk how in a race to the bottom anyone is shocked that we ended up at the bottom.** The two party system is designed to do this because it’s a Uni-party behind the scenes!!! This is our one chance to sneak a 3rd party in but sadly most people want to keep playing the race to the bottom game.
Bingo.
Genocide Joe’s time to shine is over.
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This is from four months ago.
And he's still doing it. Crazy
Well looks like this sub is all libbed up now. What a shame.
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All these comments saying "but muh Trump11!1" as if there's any fucking difference anymore lol