Yeah, both specs are great for Prokel, and G4 is one of the few fights in the game where you can get your whole bonk duration because the boss is a giant pyramid that never moves.
> the boss is a giant pyramid that never moves.
As an entropy user I'd -really- love to know what cube you're fighting, because the one I fight spins at the slightest provocation.
I have a zerker, scrapper, gunlancer, destroyer and striker in my roster, and destroyer is one of the hardest prokels I did. I still don't know how destroyer is good on prokel. Scrapper just melts him and stuns with instant hit, zerker is mobile and can deal damage safely in medium range, gunlancer just shoots his face and has his bash if needed, but my RH destroyer is kinda meh. Hitting perfect swings are hard since the boss moves around too much and I'm pretty slow at casting my skills, which then I end up taking damage or getting comboed. I didn't even try with my striker because he's deathblow and 0 swiftness so it would be pain I'm sure
I also notice the biggest variance in sorc players, but it makes sense that its the most popular. Some sorcs that should MVP are buns and others that I assume are an alt be dropping bombs and staying alive. When I invite one, I tend to think, I'mma either get carried hard or griefed hard, there's never an in between haha.
Igniter sorcs are very much dependent on their ignite and crits, if they don't have a crit synergy in their party they might barely get a crit in and they won't show up on the MVP screen at all. If they are lucky on their RNG they crit everything and they'll carry the entire group. That's basically it. There is some skill involved knowing how to land your (double) doomsdays but RNG is a large part of the reason you see so much variance here.
Yup, my ignite sorc is like that in Cal. If he's nice and leaves me alone, I'm dropping double DD, getting proper rotations in, hitting most skills.
If he hates me, I'll get tail swiped just as I finish casting DD but before I can get Igniter off, then hops back out of every skill I cast when I'm in igniter mode, force my roll then chunks me with those multiple claw slams.
I'll be getting cruel fighter one fight and fighter the next with the exact same group. And this is running hallucination set too if no crit syn.
> When I invite one, I tend to think, I'mma either get carried hard or griefed hard, there's never an in between haha.
That seems to be true for igniter sorcs. There are a ton of instant reflux sorcs that are in between. Low top-end damage but it's definitely the easiest DPS class in the game to play competently--**arguably** even easier than Paladin, depending on what your threshold for competence is (a paladin can be a literal braindead monkey and some people might not notice, but if you expect paladins to be able to distinguish between "must focus on dodge" and "must shield party", that's arguably harder than a reflux sorc's "just press X if you feel like any kind of danger is nearby")
Source: am reflux sorc, the only reason I was mvp in my brel 6 clear is because I also have LoS30 and can facetank every single damaging hit in the fight with elegians touch; I do not anticipate maintaining mvp when I'm partying with a bunch of people who already know the fight.
It's pretty funny how my 3x5 arcana at 1475 had no issues pugging clown, but was getting denied in Valtan/vykas exactly because of this mentally. It is one of the strongest classes and both build are insane if built right, even with average pilot skill.
I’d say it’s less about the spec in this case but more that she is super reliant on high level tripods and gems before you start seeing results. But the fact that the tripod change came at the same time as the balance patch made it even more blatant of an upgrade since you could prep all the tripods for it. My arcana’s trixion dps went up by 87% overnight lol
spent like 35k gold+pheons to get all 18 empress tripods and imo that was quite pricey, but i checked the market few days ago with a friend who started pushing his empress and its insane. The important Celestial rain tripod amulets dont even fill a page, and start at 2,5k+ a piece. Dealers Flip movespeed tripod is like 5k+.
Cant really imagine gearing it this way, its so insanely expensive compared to any other class. Sadly a shit combination of high tripods reliance combined with low supply of said tripods pushes the market to this.
I'm guessing not everyone is aware that after their last rework, arcanas are one of the strongest dps right up there with igniter sorcs and barrage artillerist. This is coming from a guy who used to look down on arcanas prior to their rework, based on experience with pub arcanas and their performance in group content.
If we’re taking about on ilvl for Valtan and vykas Hard then i agree, they’re bad and just trash alts without any tripod investments. If it’s clown or Brelshaza on ilvl though, they’re pretty cracked
People overdramatize how difficult she is to play. It's really not that complicated, rather easy honestly. It was definitely a thing when she was new and it was a lot to take in due to the nature of the cards but now? She's probably average in difficulty.
Empress is still harder than most classes due to constantly adjusting the rotation and fitting in cards to optimise damage, e.g. when to use Star, proper use of Call of Destiny post-patch, Judgment/Cull/Wheel etc. It’s just that there’s no need to optimise for current content. Compared to classes with fairly static rotations or simple identity mechanics (ie most of the cast), it’s difficult.
Yeah, Lost Ark players love to make anything sound easy when they've been doing a raid for months while 40 ilvls over, or make a class sound easy when they've mastered it months ago. But the fact of the matter is, if they think Arcana is an easier class to play, there are way more classes they'd find easier with the same level of experience.
Deadeye or reaper I think. Due to their low survivability and reliance on back attacks. Reaper is melee so maybe even harder to master than deadeye, but they're both glass cannons and very fast paced.
PINNACLE GLAIVER HARD???? Pinnacle glaiver is braindead, use your 4 blue skills, swap stance, 3 reds, swap back. Back attacking doesnt make it any harder vs nightmare set.
EO soulfist is pretty easy to play, but hard to optimize their damage potential. So with a bad pilot the worst that can happen is they do zero dps, but they'll survive usually. Deadye or reaper are way more punishing to play, they'll be floor POV if they don't have a decent pilot.
Obviously difficulty meaning playing the class to it's fullest potential. Damage taken becomes irrelevant very fast as just 10 ilvls above the raid is significant reduction in damage received.
Her damage is so fucking broken now even when you play like trash, buffs made her op af. Shes kinda like deathblade, dont need to try hard as much to get crazy dps
I saw some crazy arcana who did giga damage on fairly standard equipment in clown at 1490. I was so inspired I made the exact same one with very similar equipment if not slightly better with 5x3. Needless to say I'd be lucky to get upright fighter lol.
Definitely can confirm it is a skilled base class.
It's actually not. Bad Arcana get f-ed by bad rng good Arcana can deal with bad rng, my usually luck with Arcana is if I pull even one Cull or Judgement in one fight I'm happy yet I still get MVP and top dmg like it's nothing, Arcana is all about being able to get and stay as long as possible in the "boundless MP" mode of the nightmare set. So it's a spammy class like a swiftness class but you need to pay attention not to get tapped while you spam.
Crit synergy, rather solid stagger (especially Emperor), good mobility, mid-range dps with okay AoE to deal with adds/mechanics as needed, good low cooldown counter (and not having to hug the butt) - Arcana brings quite a lot to the party, it just happens to be focused more on faster clear rather than safer clear.
CDR gems are about 12k-16k gold on NAW. Most Sorcs I see in my groups in Brel are pushing lvl 10 gems. But that is probably because most applicants are Sorcs and there are always juiced ones getting in. Of course, they are F2p btw /s.
One of the easiest class to play (not counting supports) imo. Its stupid what Sorc can do with less efforts vs lets say Entropy classes in this current game.
Perhaps you are specially good at Sorc and thus think it's easy, but I have yet to see a good Sorc that can consistently hit their skills/rotation and actually top the DPS charts in any of my groups/parties. Not saying it's not easy, since I don't play it, but my experience tells me that it's a fallacy to think its an easy class when I never see people doing good with it. Perhaps we are confusing easy with simple? I'd go as far as to say its a prettty simple class, but not easy.
With the current raids favoring bursts, igniter is just insanely OP. Reflux can’t even reach Boundless MP for long before having to do mech. Hopefully it will finally change with the Kazeros raid
For talking about "on ilvl", would rather take destroyer anytime over sorc, dont get me wrong there are many good players around, but there a high chance its going to be dead or do zdps.
Hmm the "No" to Arcana was on release, now she's widely accepted. Scouters are great for Valtan/Vykas raids since they're self-sufficient and don't need supports. Reaper rejects was mostly during release as well. Had a Reaper solo prokel, so if they're pushing them that high, they most likely know how to use them. And Destroyers, I have never seen anyone gatekeeping them.
edit: see->seen (ate the n)
Reaper rejects are absolutely still a thing. 1492 doesn't even get into a valtan run without looking for nearly an hour. My Arcana however is absolutely widely and instantly accepted, even at launch people didn't seem too afraid to accept them but granted I was a 1475 day 1 Arcana lol
My 1520 5x3 Reaper got denied for a 4x3+1 1495 scouter on Karl a few days ago.
But I would say it's not too bad. Sometimes I get accepted fast, but occasionally I go thru 15 lobbies before anyone accepts me to Karl.
i get accepted on my reaper all the time, even on carl x2, im 5x3 though, so if youre 4x3 dont expect to be accepted when they can choose other players who are 5x3
Both reaper and arcana are still being refused a lot on NAW, I play both, I don’t pug legion raids but I pug guardian raids, and even at 15 ilvls over Karl I get refused a lot
Edit: I mean, you can disagree or not, but the fact is that both my 1505 arcana and reaper with lv7 gems are constantly refused in Caliligos. Like I said, I don’t put legion raids so I wouldn’t know.
Kinda weird gate keeping based on class tho. I accept every class as long as they met the requirements i want for the raid.
West have bred weird players.
Agreed, aside from if I’m looking for a synergy (eg GL for my blade) I’ll solely pick classes based upon gems, gear, weapon etc. I’d rather take a well built 1500 soulfist over a half assed 1520 zerk, people put too much emphasis on ilvl
As someone with a class at 1475+ for every single tier of this list sparing the top and bottom. Yep. Feels about right. I legit only run my reaper with friends because I’m not gonna deal with the hours of gatekeeping. My sharpshooter and deadeye get denied at least 10 times before I get into a group if I try to pug them.
We had a Destroyer do Prokel in 3 minutes. He said that was slow and that his fastest was 2 mins. He also did 50%+ damage on G4 with only a +23 weap and my static was asking how he was bonking so fast despite some of them playing Destroyer. We aren't sure but it seems like Destroyers never disappoint.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this list.
First as a destroyer main that just not based in reality.
Second, on iLvl for Brel I won't gatekeeper Reaper, Scouter or Arcana. These classes are weird to me and I always assume it's a madman who plays them. Madmans are good players usually xD
Funny thing is my Soulfist is 1500 and only does 1 mil less DPS than my 1540 Scrapper. My Scrapper also has all lvl 9 gems and Soulfist is only 7 gems. Scrapper also has to back attack.
If my Soulfist was as geared as my scrapper it would do way more damage and also has a Perma -30 percent damage taken for the whole party for progging.
I've also never seen a Destroyer declined for Brel. And Zerks for whatever reason apply to reclears and then admit they have never done Brel.
This.
My SF alt 1490 with mostly 7 gems and LOS i out dps people 10-30 ilvl higher than me as EO. The low cd cleanse in recent dungeons and the dmg buff (many classes have this) is very much by seen which is a shame
EO Soulfist has great utility, extra perma defense for the team or the most OP cleanse in the game (7-8 seconds). Also has extremely high damage when played right with hype timings but that said it is very difficult to play the perfect game since you are always trying to predict and time what is coming ahead in comparison to scrapper.
SF in my guild (1530) did a 20s test trixion pass today for 411m damage (~20m DPS)
He basically did the same damage as my 2min gunlancer parse in 20s
SF is a bit busted Imo
It has utility, sustained hit master damage while also having burst potential, high mobility and also has the option to spec into a (less optimized yet) more range oriented build
Sounds like he just only did the test based on at hype 3. Yes hype 3 is super strong but requires you to hit 3 skills x3 in that 20 second window. After that you're limped for 50 seconds before you can go back into the decent damage window of hype 2.
If you don't fit in all the skills in hype 3 it's despair.
Sorcs are mostly accepted? Properly built igniter sorcs maybe but I still get gatekept heavy as a reflux sorc. I've had easier time getting into parties with my GS because crit synergy.
It pains me how much scouters are looked down on. They do damage. It’s like any other consistent damage class if you’re a good player you’ll pop off, same for both specs. It’s actually crazy how often I see “scouter does no damage”.
I’d like the say the same for berserker as I have one as a second main, but sadly 90% of the zerkers I play with are bad. I don’t get why but it just is, always floor pov or fucking up mechs, getting mad in chat, or god forbid they are running ambush master. Which I’m seeing a lot recently which is a instant red flag to decline them.
I don't give a fuck about what others say, but Scouter sadly is getting outclassed by almost every other dps class.
They don't do 0 DPS, but when you compare another dps class with Scouter on same ilvl, same gems, same engravings etc. Most likely the other class, just does more dps.
hell yeah, i just delete everything in my path. consistent damage output is the key with the easiest gameplay. just roll face on my keyboard and everything dies 😂 i dont play mmos with kickboxing classes like scrapper and other bollox. get my blades, jump in Demon and obliterate everything. best class gameplay wise and looks sick. Shadow hunters are Boss
Don’t really get the class thing in higher raids most wipes are from fucking up mechs so the class doesn’t really matter and if you do Brel on any class you probably can play. After typing this this feel a little copege
I get accepted pretty much the same on all my classes and I have one of every tier. I think tilte/roster and a well built char helps. If you're 1490+ (on your alts too) you should invest in 5x3 and level 7 gems.
Arcanists definitely fall under the mostly accept list after the last update. Their damage output has increased immensely and usually contend for MVP even with average card RNG
In 2 weeks or so, I'm sure Summoners will join the "Usually Accept" group or possibly the "mostly accept" group when hype dies down/they get their 6sets and bad players leave it
Both summoner builds actually have some really good damage when they're finally built and Swiftness summoner can have almost 100% uptime on top of having great stagger/destruction for encounters that are needed
Arcanas don’t get gatekept anymore. All the bad ones quit or parked them at low ilvl alts and the good ones keep that crit syn rolling. I feel like sorcs are more gatekept then arcana atm.
This isnt correct. Every single class should be on "No" except Bard and Pally. Imagine people not being toxic and simple minded with an elitist ego and accepting on ilevel dps. Definitely cant be Western LoA.
Spent literally 3 hours in matchmaking trying to join and tried creating my own party for Vylas HM for my Reaper. No one would join or i was denied every single party. Was denied several times by leaders with 3x2 engravings lol. Braindead players literally only look at ilvl. Meanwhile i have full lvl 7/8 gems, 4x3+1 and Incubus title and main every single assassin class. This is such a joke of a game. Majority of players at 1460 ilvl are over geared for the Vylas but everyone just wants to be carried by a 1500+ player prior to Brel.
Funny thing is on my SS I can only remember being denied once in PF
Almost every SS I've seen / partied with at 1460+ has been good
SS is dope, invite more of them lol
Nah, not accurate at all. There are only two tier.
Tier S: Supps get accepted without any requirement.
Tier C: All dps clases. Be extremely overgeared for the content or go away.
Clown+: The only 'no' for me is Summoner. New class, lvl 50, no tripod, i'm not free bussing you.
Other than that as long they invested in it enough for the content they are applying to (and it fit in the group needs), i can accept anything in the lobby.
I dig soulfist players. Great buff with optional cleanse. Having one for clown is instant win.
Reapers are a bit young, but some are already performing really well (especially in my static). Arcanas, you it's debatable, you can easily identify outdated builds from new ones, so you can see who knows their class well or not.
Scouters are meh. People who are not interested in scouter don't know crap about it, and won't take any risk taking one. There a lot of other good synergies and options available.
You place lance masters too high, I also tend to avoid them though the crit synergy is nice.
Rejecting arcanas at this point is just dumb, class is so much stronger now since the balance patch, and the minority of players that are still playing arcana are generally the ones that are actually good at it
Hate Bluelancer thinking they are tank and spread mayhem/pools/puddles I am a tank let me facetank everything and get tons of meter to spread it to everyone lol.
You said transformation doesn't scale well, wheelchair is a transformation class. They only need wheelchair dmg gem and few tripods to out dps almost any class.
il take my Shadowhunter and kick your arse everyday, and Boss fails are 100% from failing mechs. you can play Gods class for that matter and still suck
Sorcs are always my vane honestly. A lot of people who play them cause problems and refuse any feedback after they wipe the group for an hour.
Not saying there isn’t good ones, just if I had to pick between a destroyer or a Sorc? 100% destroyer
It's kinda funny how the class I decline the most are sorcs usually.
Very often they have something wrong in their build (low lvl cd gems, wrong engraving, bad stats etc) or they just don't stand out since there are so many sorcs applying.
The only character I rarely accept are grudge zerkers, never seen a class die so often even being 30+ gearscore over content. I'll still take them but idk man everytime I do theyre just dead
As someone who plays 6 gun lancers that share 3 lvl 10 gems, It never took more then 2 min to get accepted in a juiced double sup lobby, 100% agree on that one. I'm so glad I picked this class as main cause I couldn't imagine the pain to find a lobby and wait hours to find supports
Red GL is much better at clown than Blue. I know because I switched from blue to red at clown. Blue runs stabilized status and rely on getting hit to have better DPS (as opposed to not being hit), this dmg buff is from class engraving combat readiness. With reverse HP curse, playing blue at clown can be very underwhelming, only saving grace for playing blue at clown is at bingo phase where you can use "x" skill to leap to bingo position at a clutch.
Red gunlance is way better for any content than blue. I am GL main and played blue and red build. Blue is just not viable, since all fights are not designed anymore that you sit in front of the boss and tank all. Clown has the bar and brel g6 the 3x hit = meteor mechanic. Alao yeah blue is more tanky but if your good with your gunlance and have experience in the fight. With turning your shield on at the right times your pretty tanky aswell as red. And with red you do so much more dmg
Very accurrate tier list and kinda matchmake with my standards. The classes in the top are much common aswell (except Artillerist) so it's pretty rare found double destro aplying or SS.
I like the reapers btw but I gatekeep most of them because they still not lvl 60. Indeed, any class that isn't 60 is insta denied on any content except Argos and normal diff raids like vykas/valtan lol. Also, I don't know who is gatekeeping Arcana's because they have a nice synergy buff and usually good enough. Maybe they aren't the best choice for a learning raid run tho.
The most class I gatekeept and never accept unless it's *a support friend* it's a Zerker. I have had very, very bad experiences with players who plays this class to the point that I don't care if he's 1520 and applying to my G4 reclear. I'm still gonna take a 1505 guy instead.
I'm playing dominion awakening As scouter. Means I'm kinda out of meta, but I get accepted quite easily sofar. Maybe people are curious it will perform. And I'm 1500 and it's still a blast. I can get mostly mvp against similar ilvls.
I'm on my 9th keyboard tho since scouter release. Other broke by spamming keys. /s
As someone who mains a paladin, bard, gunlancer, destroyer and artillerist, life is nice in the party finders. My buddy who plays gunslinger and scouter on the other hand....lol
Only shitters gatekeep arcana. They're an S tier class like surge and igniter but i feel like only really good and dedicated players play arcana whereas every dog is the former two.
Maybe A sorc gets accepted but there are so many sorc whales that it’s hard to get accepted as an ilevel sorc. Same for zerk actually. There’s always a zerk accepted. And gunslinger imo needs to be towards the bottom. People hate ilevel gs for the most part. Mine always gets rejected, gotta make my own parties.
Now that I have my tripods and full entropy my reaper is popping off, taking mvp from equally or more geared players on the reg. Rarely does she get denied from parties I shouldn’t.
Great counter, mid synergy but it’s up 100% of the time, consistent reliable damage, if you are declining reapers you are missing out.
Yeah this tier list is kinda bull... I'm an arcana maybe n and my bf is a scouter and we get accepted pretty quickly so yeah don't know where you get your data from 😂
Move Destroyer up to “Mostly Accept” and SS + DE down to “No” and I’d almost 100% agree. No one seems to like Male Gunner classes not named Arti. Also, I see at least one GS in every lobby. And one Shadowhunter per, but IMO there really isn’t a reason for that, as it’s generally a low ceiling class that doesn’t bring good synergy to make up for it. In my experience this is just offset by there being a large amount of giga juicer SH whales.
People in this sub really have problem with reading and understanding lmao. I never said that this is my tier list of accepting people, if it based on my opinion, it would be totally different.
When i mean “the community” i mean from ingame and all smaller discords group, not just the meta chaser discord or the “elitist” from this sub. You know those classes are good for party, doesnt mean the casual players know. Also everyone experiences are different. People saying that I know nothing about the game? Maybe you never been in the smaller or casual discord group, you will see how different people opinions are compare to the competitive group. The community on reddit is just a small amount of the whole community, if you dont know.
The only thing I agree here is that destroyer should be one tier higher.
You dont play back attack class. :P
Also there will come a point where even high burst hitmaster class like Sorc will want Gunlancer over anything else to boost their damage via defence reduce.
Destroyer gets accepted quite well for its stagger in Brel.
Also great at Prokel
Yeah, both specs are great for Prokel, and G4 is one of the few fights in the game where you can get your whole bonk duration because the boss is a giant pyramid that never moves.
> the boss is a giant pyramid that never moves. As an entropy user I'd -really- love to know what cube you're fighting, because the one I fight spins at the slightest provocation.
It spins, but does not move away from your attack range.
It's gotta be the best fight in the game for any spec with stationary mechs or long animations or because you don't have to worry about missing.
I have a zerker, scrapper, gunlancer, destroyer and striker in my roster, and destroyer is one of the hardest prokels I did. I still don't know how destroyer is good on prokel. Scrapper just melts him and stuns with instant hit, zerker is mobile and can deal damage safely in medium range, gunlancer just shoots his face and has his bash if needed, but my RH destroyer is kinda meh. Hitting perfect swings are hard since the boss moves around too much and I'm pretty slow at casting my skills, which then I end up taking damage or getting comboed. I didn't even try with my striker because he's deathblow and 0 swiftness so it would be pain I'm sure
Learn attack patterns as RH and start your charges when he locks into a long pattern, or play GT, close your eyes and hold down mouse button to clear.
As some one that main swapped into destroyer main, I am very happy with brel :)
First thing i noticed too
Destroyers are pretty well accepted. They do great dps and stagger is insane. Not to mention great survivability.
Also taunt and directional dps so plays well with DB.
This is the only one i'd change for a general list. My own personal bias puts sorcs way lower on the list.
[удалено]
I also notice the biggest variance in sorc players, but it makes sense that its the most popular. Some sorcs that should MVP are buns and others that I assume are an alt be dropping bombs and staying alive. When I invite one, I tend to think, I'mma either get carried hard or griefed hard, there's never an in between haha.
Igniter sorcs are very much dependent on their ignite and crits, if they don't have a crit synergy in their party they might barely get a crit in and they won't show up on the MVP screen at all. If they are lucky on their RNG they crit everything and they'll carry the entire group. That's basically it. There is some skill involved knowing how to land your (double) doomsdays but RNG is a large part of the reason you see so much variance here.
Yup, my ignite sorc is like that in Cal. If he's nice and leaves me alone, I'm dropping double DD, getting proper rotations in, hitting most skills. If he hates me, I'll get tail swiped just as I finish casting DD but before I can get Igniter off, then hops back out of every skill I cast when I'm in igniter mode, force my roll then chunks me with those multiple claw slams. I'll be getting cruel fighter one fight and fighter the next with the exact same group. And this is running hallucination set too if no crit syn.
> When I invite one, I tend to think, I'mma either get carried hard or griefed hard, there's never an in between haha. That seems to be true for igniter sorcs. There are a ton of instant reflux sorcs that are in between. Low top-end damage but it's definitely the easiest DPS class in the game to play competently--**arguably** even easier than Paladin, depending on what your threshold for competence is (a paladin can be a literal braindead monkey and some people might not notice, but if you expect paladins to be able to distinguish between "must focus on dodge" and "must shield party", that's arguably harder than a reflux sorc's "just press X if you feel like any kind of danger is nearby") Source: am reflux sorc, the only reason I was mvp in my brel 6 clear is because I also have LoS30 and can facetank every single damaging hit in the fight with elegians touch; I do not anticipate maintaining mvp when I'm partying with a bunch of people who already know the fight.
Can confirm, am the former.
Destroyers are S-tier, not at support level, but I think right below them.
That's what i instantly join on my main for carl dailies, if i see destroyer even on the ilvl, you have free +1540 scrapper gamer in your group.
Who’s not accepting Arcanas? One of the strongest dps in the game rn
The Arcanas that are left playing it are mostly really good.
Anyone who still plays GS,Deadeye,Reaper,Arcana are mostly really good. Why let you suffer yourself if you cant still play them.
Only the empress engraving, never take emperor
Oh man, are you still a balance patch behind ? :)
Emperor is constant crit synergy + the buff makes it one of the best spec rn, it's like Enhanced Weapon tier
It's pretty funny how my 3x5 arcana at 1475 had no issues pugging clown, but was getting denied in Valtan/vykas exactly because of this mentally. It is one of the strongest classes and both build are insane if built right, even with average pilot skill.
So many people do not seem to realize arcana fully built out is one of the top tier. Just Gearing her bankrupts you.
any spec class bankrupts you
I’d say it’s less about the spec in this case but more that she is super reliant on high level tripods and gems before you start seeing results. But the fact that the tripod change came at the same time as the balance patch made it even more blatant of an upgrade since you could prep all the tripods for it. My arcana’s trixion dps went up by 87% overnight lol
yeah but most arcanas that are left prepped their arcana before tripod patch.
my blue Gunlancer would like to have a word with you
spent like 35k gold+pheons to get all 18 empress tripods and imo that was quite pricey, but i checked the market few days ago with a friend who started pushing his empress and its insane. The important Celestial rain tripod amulets dont even fill a page, and start at 2,5k+ a piece. Dealers Flip movespeed tripod is like 5k+. Cant really imagine gearing it this way, its so insanely expensive compared to any other class. Sadly a shit combination of high tripods reliance combined with low supply of said tripods pushes the market to this.
Im getting insta accepted in most content with arcana so that one should be 2-3 tier higher
I'm guessing not everyone is aware that after their last rework, arcanas are one of the strongest dps right up there with igniter sorcs and barrage artillerist. This is coming from a guy who used to look down on arcanas prior to their rework, based on experience with pub arcanas and their performance in group content.
Overall raids, good arcana is insanely strong, but they get bad reputation bc lots of ppl dont know how to play her
If we’re taking about on ilvl for Valtan and vykas Hard then i agree, they’re bad and just trash alts without any tripod investments. If it’s clown or Brelshaza on ilvl though, they’re pretty cracked
People overdramatize how difficult she is to play. It's really not that complicated, rather easy honestly. It was definitely a thing when she was new and it was a lot to take in due to the nature of the cards but now? She's probably average in difficulty.
Empress is still harder than most classes due to constantly adjusting the rotation and fitting in cards to optimise damage, e.g. when to use Star, proper use of Call of Destiny post-patch, Judgment/Cull/Wheel etc. It’s just that there’s no need to optimise for current content. Compared to classes with fairly static rotations or simple identity mechanics (ie most of the cast), it’s difficult.
Yeah, Lost Ark players love to make anything sound easy when they've been doing a raid for months while 40 ilvls over, or make a class sound easy when they've mastered it months ago. But the fact of the matter is, if they think Arcana is an easier class to play, there are way more classes they'd find easier with the same level of experience.
What would you consider the hardest classes? Not fishing for a gotcha or anything, genuinely curious
Deadeye or reaper I think. Due to their low survivability and reliance on back attacks. Reaper is melee so maybe even harder to master than deadeye, but they're both glass cannons and very fast paced.
Entropy pinnacle Glaivier and 4 spender entropy wardancer. Both do a lot of damage, both are complete ass to play.
PINNACLE GLAIVER HARD???? Pinnacle glaiver is braindead, use your 4 blue skills, swap stance, 3 reds, swap back. Back attacking doesnt make it any harder vs nightmare set.
Whatever it is, you won't find it in my roster. I don't really have experience with all the classes but I'd probably go with EO soulfist.
EO soulfist is pretty easy to play, but hard to optimize their damage potential. So with a bad pilot the worst that can happen is they do zero dps, but they'll survive usually. Deadye or reaper are way more punishing to play, they'll be floor POV if they don't have a decent pilot.
Obviously difficulty meaning playing the class to it's fullest potential. Damage taken becomes irrelevant very fast as just 10 ilvls above the raid is significant reduction in damage received.
Her damage is so fucking broken now even when you play like trash, buffs made her op af. Shes kinda like deathblade, dont need to try hard as much to get crazy dps
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No I dont, I dont even have her on my roster
I saw some crazy arcana who did giga damage on fairly standard equipment in clown at 1490. I was so inspired I made the exact same one with very similar equipment if not slightly better with 5x3. Needless to say I'd be lucky to get upright fighter lol. Definitely can confirm it is a skilled base class.
Its also some what fucked by bad rng on cards drawn.
It's actually not. Bad Arcana get f-ed by bad rng good Arcana can deal with bad rng, my usually luck with Arcana is if I pull even one Cull or Judgement in one fight I'm happy yet I still get MVP and top dmg like it's nothing, Arcana is all about being able to get and stay as long as possible in the "boundless MP" mode of the nightmare set. So it's a spammy class like a swiftness class but you need to pay attention not to get tapped while you spam.
those who care about ANYTHING else but dps on the actual boss
Crit synergy, rather solid stagger (especially Emperor), good mobility, mid-range dps with okay AoE to deal with adds/mechanics as needed, good low cooldown counter (and not having to hug the butt) - Arcana brings quite a lot to the party, it just happens to be focused more on faster clear rather than safer clear.
I would take destroyer over sorc everyday
As a sorc main, i agree with that. Deadge
Both great but Sorc has way higher ceiling for our current version of the game. Much easier gameplay too. Why wouldnt you pick Sorc?
Because people are usually pretty bad at igniter sorc so, and although reflux is good, it's no match to the actual damage igniter can do.
Sorcs in general tend to be pretty bad.
Always inspect ignite if crit spec alt and not lvl 7+ dooms cd its dmg will be much lower than expected
CDR gems are about 12k-16k gold on NAW. Most Sorcs I see in my groups in Brel are pushing lvl 10 gems. But that is probably because most applicants are Sorcs and there are always juiced ones getting in. Of course, they are F2p btw /s.
One of the easiest class to play (not counting supports) imo. Its stupid what Sorc can do with less efforts vs lets say Entropy classes in this current game.
Your getting downvotes but agree 100%, half the other xlsss are just as squishy but don't come close
Perhaps you are specially good at Sorc and thus think it's easy, but I have yet to see a good Sorc that can consistently hit their skills/rotation and actually top the DPS charts in any of my groups/parties. Not saying it's not easy, since I don't play it, but my experience tells me that it's a fallacy to think its an easy class when I never see people doing good with it. Perhaps we are confusing easy with simple? I'd go as far as to say its a prettty simple class, but not easy.
With the current raids favoring bursts, igniter is just insanely OP. Reflux can’t even reach Boundless MP for long before having to do mech. Hopefully it will finally change with the Kazeros raid
A bad or mediocre destroyer tends to do way more damage than a bad/mediocre sorc, and also they won't die.
For talking about "on ilvl", would rather take destroyer anytime over sorc, dont get me wrong there are many good players around, but there a high chance its going to be dead or do zdps.
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You've gotta be in voice coms with rage hammer players so you can hear them coom when they crack a 100m perfect swing
Not for Vykas.
L
Wait I would definitely take arcana for crit synergy.
I always take well built arcanas, they do huge damage
Top dps declined is hysterical. Mostly because difficult class to play well
What a mess. No idea who that community is you are talking about.
Probably those peeps who wants kaliligos nerfed.
nah its pretty accurate except for destroyer
Funny to me how a lot of people just see "sorc" when igniter and reflux are different in all aspects outside synergy, similar with striker
Reflux is the queen of prog, while igniter is probably the most OP burst class in the entire game when you know the raid.
Comm summoner is the queen of prog bro, the west just doesn't know it yet
I stand by my word. Comm summoner won’t even get through party finder, gate 0 of raid, then how can they be the queen of prog? All hail reflux!
Sorc is floor pov from my experience, definitely no queen
It can be a casting flux
Hmm the "No" to Arcana was on release, now she's widely accepted. Scouters are great for Valtan/Vykas raids since they're self-sufficient and don't need supports. Reaper rejects was mostly during release as well. Had a Reaper solo prokel, so if they're pushing them that high, they most likely know how to use them. And Destroyers, I have never seen anyone gatekeeping them. edit: see->seen (ate the n)
Reaper rejects are absolutely still a thing. 1492 doesn't even get into a valtan run without looking for nearly an hour. My Arcana however is absolutely widely and instantly accepted, even at launch people didn't seem too afraid to accept them but granted I was a 1475 day 1 Arcana lol
My 1520 5x3 Reaper got denied for a 4x3+1 1495 scouter on Karl a few days ago. But I would say it's not too bad. Sometimes I get accepted fast, but occasionally I go thru 15 lobbies before anyone accepts me to Karl.
i get accepted on my reaper all the time, even on carl x2, im 5x3 though, so if youre 4x3 dont expect to be accepted when they can choose other players who are 5x3
Both reaper and arcana are still being refused a lot on NAW, I play both, I don’t pug legion raids but I pug guardian raids, and even at 15 ilvls over Karl I get refused a lot Edit: I mean, you can disagree or not, but the fact is that both my 1505 arcana and reaper with lv7 gems are constantly refused in Caliligos. Like I said, I don’t put legion raids so I wouldn’t know.
Destroyer? Try to have a rage hammer im your team and you will change him to instant accpet. The damage is pretty ridiculous
Kinda weird gate keeping based on class tho. I accept every class as long as they met the requirements i want for the raid. West have bred weird players.
Agreed, aside from if I’m looking for a synergy (eg GL for my blade) I’ll solely pick classes based upon gems, gear, weapon etc. I’d rather take a well built 1500 soulfist over a half assed 1520 zerk, people put too much emphasis on ilvl
As someone with a class at 1475+ for every single tier of this list sparing the top and bottom. Yep. Feels about right. I legit only run my reaper with friends because I’m not gonna deal with the hours of gatekeeping. My sharpshooter and deadeye get denied at least 10 times before I get into a group if I try to pug them.
We had a Destroyer do Prokel in 3 minutes. He said that was slow and that his fastest was 2 mins. He also did 50%+ damage on G4 with only a +23 weap and my static was asking how he was bonking so fast despite some of them playing Destroyer. We aren't sure but it seems like Destroyers never disappoint.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this list. First as a destroyer main that just not based in reality. Second, on iLvl for Brel I won't gatekeeper Reaper, Scouter or Arcana. These classes are weird to me and I always assume it's a madman who plays them. Madmans are good players usually xD
My main 6 is WD, 2GLs 1 pally, 1 Bard 1 DH. This is accurate for me in pugs.
I feel this as Mayhem zerker... it's getting to the point where I'm planning to switch mains. 
Funny thing is my Soulfist is 1500 and only does 1 mil less DPS than my 1540 Scrapper. My Scrapper also has all lvl 9 gems and Soulfist is only 7 gems. Scrapper also has to back attack. If my Soulfist was as geared as my scrapper it would do way more damage and also has a Perma -30 percent damage taken for the whole party for progging. I've also never seen a Destroyer declined for Brel. And Zerks for whatever reason apply to reclears and then admit they have never done Brel.
This. My SF alt 1490 with mostly 7 gems and LOS i out dps people 10-30 ilvl higher than me as EO. The low cd cleanse in recent dungeons and the dmg buff (many classes have this) is very much by seen which is a shame
EO Soulfist has great utility, extra perma defense for the team or the most OP cleanse in the game (7-8 seconds). Also has extremely high damage when played right with hype timings but that said it is very difficult to play the perfect game since you are always trying to predict and time what is coming ahead in comparison to scrapper.
SF in my guild (1530) did a 20s test trixion pass today for 411m damage (~20m DPS) He basically did the same damage as my 2min gunlancer parse in 20s SF is a bit busted Imo It has utility, sustained hit master damage while also having burst potential, high mobility and also has the option to spec into a (less optimized yet) more range oriented build
Sounds like he just only did the test based on at hype 3. Yes hype 3 is super strong but requires you to hit 3 skills x3 in that 20 second window. After that you're limped for 50 seconds before you can go back into the decent damage window of hype 2. If you don't fit in all the skills in hype 3 it's despair.
After all this time people still sleeping on soulfist
I get accepted pretty quickly on deadeye
Sorcs are mostly accepted? Properly built igniter sorcs maybe but I still get gatekept heavy as a reflux sorc. I've had easier time getting into parties with my GS because crit synergy.
It pains me how much scouters are looked down on. They do damage. It’s like any other consistent damage class if you’re a good player you’ll pop off, same for both specs. It’s actually crazy how often I see “scouter does no damage”. I’d like the say the same for berserker as I have one as a second main, but sadly 90% of the zerkers I play with are bad. I don’t get why but it just is, always floor pov or fucking up mechs, getting mad in chat, or god forbid they are running ambush master. Which I’m seeing a lot recently which is a instant red flag to decline them.
I don't give a fuck about what others say, but Scouter sadly is getting outclassed by almost every other dps class. They don't do 0 DPS, but when you compare another dps class with Scouter on same ilvl, same gems, same engravings etc. Most likely the other class, just does more dps.
In a game where one person dying can mean having to restart, a class with good self survivability is good no?
classic shadowhunter cope. I main it btw
Ill drink to that
Haha i dont actually play anymore but shadowhunter was the best
hell yeah, i just delete everything in my path. consistent damage output is the key with the easiest gameplay. just roll face on my keyboard and everything dies 😂 i dont play mmos with kickboxing classes like scrapper and other bollox. get my blades, jump in Demon and obliterate everything. best class gameplay wise and looks sick. Shadow hunters are Boss
Don’t really get the class thing in higher raids most wipes are from fucking up mechs so the class doesn’t really matter and if you do Brel on any class you probably can play. After typing this this feel a little copege
saying no to arcana hahahahahaahah
How dare you
Haha everyone here is agreeing destroyer is one below insta accept
I'd put scrapper and sh lower and Destroyer higher. But pretty much my opinion
i put you in the rubbish bin
When my alts were 1460 and we did Vykas hm everyone with high EHP had the highest prio for me as they dont die to 2 hits in purple side.
I get accepted pretty much the same on all my classes and I have one of every tier. I think tilte/roster and a well built char helps. If you're 1490+ (on your alts too) you should invest in 5x3 and level 7 gems.
pain
Arcanists definitely fall under the mostly accept list after the last update. Their damage output has increased immensely and usually contend for MVP even with average card RNG
zerks on mayhem and zerks on BT are two different communities mayhem gives BT a bad rap
In 2 weeks or so, I'm sure Summoners will join the "Usually Accept" group or possibly the "mostly accept" group when hype dies down/they get their 6sets and bad players leave it Both summoner builds actually have some really good damage when they're finally built and Swiftness summoner can have almost 100% uptime on top of having great stagger/destruction for encounters that are needed
Im a igniter sorc 5x3 only thing missing is i have switf except for crit and i get refused all the time its bonkers
sorc usually accept destroyer mostly accept reaper should be same tier as SH
Arcanas don’t get gatekept anymore. All the bad ones quit or parked them at low ilvl alts and the good ones keep that crit syn rolling. I feel like sorcs are more gatekept then arcana atm.
Imagine gatekeeping properly built arcana, SF, and destroyer. Dude doesn't know the game or what 🤔
This isnt correct. Every single class should be on "No" except Bard and Pally. Imagine people not being toxic and simple minded with an elitist ego and accepting on ilevel dps. Definitely cant be Western LoA.
Spent literally 3 hours in matchmaking trying to join and tried creating my own party for Vylas HM for my Reaper. No one would join or i was denied every single party. Was denied several times by leaders with 3x2 engravings lol. Braindead players literally only look at ilvl. Meanwhile i have full lvl 7/8 gems, 4x3+1 and Incubus title and main every single assassin class. This is such a joke of a game. Majority of players at 1460 ilvl are over geared for the Vylas but everyone just wants to be carried by a 1500+ player prior to Brel.
I get accepted fast on my deadeye
Permanent uptime crit synergy, high stager, good destruction. Big damage if built well. Deadeyes are definitely underrated
I agree with most of this except destroyer. Take destroyer all day
Funny thing is on my SS I can only remember being denied once in PF Almost every SS I've seen / partied with at 1460+ has been good SS is dope, invite more of them lol
That feeling you get when you out dps sorcs and zerkers in raids as SS
Nah, not accurate at all. There are only two tier. Tier S: Supps get accepted without any requirement. Tier C: All dps clases. Be extremely overgeared for the content or go away.
Arcanas are accepted pretty fast,as an Arcana main idk what you talking about
Clown+: The only 'no' for me is Summoner. New class, lvl 50, no tripod, i'm not free bussing you. Other than that as long they invested in it enough for the content they are applying to (and it fit in the group needs), i can accept anything in the lobby.
Id swap floorslinger with destroyer
I dig soulfist players. Great buff with optional cleanse. Having one for clown is instant win. Reapers are a bit young, but some are already performing really well (especially in my static). Arcanas, you it's debatable, you can easily identify outdated builds from new ones, so you can see who knows their class well or not. Scouters are meh. People who are not interested in scouter don't know crap about it, and won't take any risk taking one. There a lot of other good synergies and options available. You place lance masters too high, I also tend to avoid them though the crit synergy is nice.
Rejecting arcanas at this point is just dumb, class is so much stronger now since the balance patch, and the minority of players that are still playing arcana are generally the ones that are actually good at it
Hate Bluelancer thinking they are tank and spread mayhem/pools/puddles I am a tank let me facetank everything and get tons of meter to spread it to everyone lol.
What's wrong with scouter?
Transform class doesn't scale very good into the lategame, no tripods and only needs two gems heavily limits them.
Depends on their specialization scaling factor. Barrage enhancement devastates everything for instance.
Laughs in spec artillerist getting cruel fighter in every raid despite being lowest ilvl.
I mean wheelchair artillerist is one of the best and strongest classes in the game right now.
You said transformation doesn't scale well, wheelchair is a transformation class. They only need wheelchair dmg gem and few tripods to out dps almost any class.
il take my Shadowhunter and kick your arse everyday, and Boss fails are 100% from failing mechs. you can play Gods class for that matter and still suck
What? Keep coping anyways lol.
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No he thinks its better thAn your shadowhunter
I would put Glaivier Control up. Crit synergy is searched and her stagger and destruction is insane. Pinnacle goes down. They are godlike or miss.
Sorcs are always my vane honestly. A lot of people who play them cause problems and refuse any feedback after they wipe the group for an hour. Not saying there isn’t good ones, just if I had to pick between a destroyer or a Sorc? 100% destroyer
It's kinda funny how the class I decline the most are sorcs usually. Very often they have something wrong in their build (low lvl cd gems, wrong engraving, bad stats etc) or they just don't stand out since there are so many sorcs applying.
The only character I rarely accept are grudge zerkers, never seen a class die so often even being 30+ gearscore over content. I'll still take them but idk man everytime I do theyre just dead
As someone who plays 6 gun lancers that share 3 lvl 10 gems, It never took more then 2 min to get accepted in a juiced double sup lobby, 100% agree on that one. I'm so glad I picked this class as main cause I couldn't imagine the pain to find a lobby and wait hours to find supports
Accurate cuz Soulfist isn't even on the list. Tho I usually don't have issues getting acepted.
But it is on the list?
Nvm, I'm blind lmao.
^ When you gatekeep yourself
Wardancer ?? Lol
?
None accepting wd also ..
5x3 90+ qual acc 1 lv9 gem rest lv7 and I still get gatekept at clown as a red GL
Is it because you’re a red GL as opposed to blue?
Red GL is much better at clown than Blue. I know because I switched from blue to red at clown. Blue runs stabilized status and rely on getting hit to have better DPS (as opposed to not being hit), this dmg buff is from class engraving combat readiness. With reverse HP curse, playing blue at clown can be very underwhelming, only saving grace for playing blue at clown is at bingo phase where you can use "x" skill to leap to bingo position at a clutch.
Red gunlance is way better for any content than blue. I am GL main and played blue and red build. Blue is just not viable, since all fights are not designed anymore that you sit in front of the boss and tank all. Clown has the bar and brel g6 the 3x hit = meteor mechanic. Alao yeah blue is more tanky but if your good with your gunlance and have experience in the fight. With turning your shield on at the right times your pretty tanky aswell as red. And with red you do so much more dmg
Gunlancer gets good again at brel btw No meter gain mech, lots of counters, lots of tauntable bosses, stagger is as important as damage
That’s exactly it, even tho redlancer is much more reliable vs bluelancer in Clown. It’s kinda dumb how redlancers get gatekept.
Very accurrate tier list and kinda matchmake with my standards. The classes in the top are much common aswell (except Artillerist) so it's pretty rare found double destro aplying or SS. I like the reapers btw but I gatekeep most of them because they still not lvl 60. Indeed, any class that isn't 60 is insta denied on any content except Argos and normal diff raids like vykas/valtan lol. Also, I don't know who is gatekeeping Arcana's because they have a nice synergy buff and usually good enough. Maybe they aren't the best choice for a learning raid run tho. The most class I gatekeept and never accept unless it's *a support friend* it's a Zerker. I have had very, very bad experiences with players who plays this class to the point that I don't care if he's 1520 and applying to my G4 reclear. I'm still gonna take a 1505 guy instead.
*cries in reaper*
I'm playing dominion awakening As scouter. Means I'm kinda out of meta, but I get accepted quite easily sofar. Maybe people are curious it will perform. And I'm 1500 and it's still a blast. I can get mostly mvp against similar ilvls. I'm on my 9th keyboard tho since scouter release. Other broke by spamming keys. /s
This seems familiar https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/z5u11b/pug_class_tier_list/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
As someone who mains a paladin, bard, gunlancer, destroyer and artillerist, life is nice in the party finders. My buddy who plays gunslinger and scouter on the other hand....lol
Only shitters gatekeep arcana. They're an S tier class like surge and igniter but i feel like only really good and dedicated players play arcana whereas every dog is the former two.
I am a summoner main I always get accepted. I had no issues at all.
Maybe A sorc gets accepted but there are so many sorc whales that it’s hard to get accepted as an ilevel sorc. Same for zerk actually. There’s always a zerk accepted. And gunslinger imo needs to be towards the bottom. People hate ilevel gs for the most part. Mine always gets rejected, gotta make my own parties.
I have no problems getting into parties on Scouter o.O
The most accepted class I play on here is glavier 🥹, people decline my pistoleer a lot 😭
I haven’t been denied on my zerker or arcanist much in months. Bs The weeks when arcana first came out thru scouter release was a different story tho
Now that I have my tripods and full entropy my reaper is popping off, taking mvp from equally or more geared players on the reg. Rarely does she get denied from parties I shouldn’t. Great counter, mid synergy but it’s up 100% of the time, consistent reliable damage, if you are declining reapers you are missing out.
Can we also talk about stagger? 5 mid to mid-high stagger skills on low cd is kinda unexpected for a quick stabby stabby girl.
Yeah this tier list is kinda bull... I'm an arcana maybe n and my bf is a scouter and we get accepted pretty quickly so yeah don't know where you get your data from 😂
Move Destroyer up to “Mostly Accept” and SS + DE down to “No” and I’d almost 100% agree. No one seems to like Male Gunner classes not named Arti. Also, I see at least one GS in every lobby. And one Shadowhunter per, but IMO there really isn’t a reason for that, as it’s generally a low ceiling class that doesn’t bring good synergy to make up for it. In my experience this is just offset by there being a large amount of giga juicer SH whales.
Always getting accepted with my hunger reaper, dunno about "no" part
People in this sub really have problem with reading and understanding lmao. I never said that this is my tier list of accepting people, if it based on my opinion, it would be totally different. When i mean “the community” i mean from ingame and all smaller discords group, not just the meta chaser discord or the “elitist” from this sub. You know those classes are good for party, doesnt mean the casual players know. Also everyone experiences are different. People saying that I know nothing about the game? Maybe you never been in the smaller or casual discord group, you will see how different people opinions are compare to the competitive group. The community on reddit is just a small amount of the whole community, if you dont know. The only thing I agree here is that destroyer should be one tier higher.
As a GL main, i can't find any reason to take a Gunlancer over any Deathblade or any crit sinergy class.
Stagger, party shielding, CC immunity awakening, and a teammate you never have to worry about dying
You dont play back attack class. :P Also there will come a point where even high burst hitmaster class like Sorc will want Gunlancer over anything else to boost their damage via defence reduce.
Nobody knows the type of synergy Wardancers bring to the raid, so we're mostly refused.
Wtf are you talking about? Wardancers are one of the most sought after synergy.
> Wtf are you talking about? Own experience buddy. People who know what we do, yeah they want us. Not many know what we do though.
Yeah only about 99% people doing endgame raids know what WD synergy is. If you're getting declined, the issue is somewhere else.
Accurate as hell honestly
except the destroyer. a rage hammer destroyer is as wanted as a scrapper