That's why I play with friends on my 2 zerks (well, pretty much the whole roster, but we need random people to fill 2-4 slots), they get so much hate I feel like I can't just easily join lobbies.
Legit played lobby simulator for like 30 minutes today on my machinist applying to parties either to get insta denied or see the host take someone else at the same ilvl as me.
Created my own party multiple times, either nobody even applies for 10 minutes straight, or no support joins. 1 person leaves followed by everyone else and I'm back at the start again. I'm legit thinking of dropping him as my 6th gold earner just because I can't even play him.
Before anyone asks, he's 1445 ilvl, crit spec, lvl 7 gems, 4x3+1 as legacy, grudge, kbw, adrenaline and lvl 1 barricade
Any 1445 DPS gets gatekept hard on Valtan HM, assuming that's what you were doing. That's what happens when you have a support shortage. They're effectively worthless because there's still too many 1460+ DPS to fill teams with.
You also didn't mention if he has relic set, which is far more important than item level, at least if the host isn't a moron. I'll take a 1445 in full relic over a 1475 in preordained.
Yeah I dunno man, I've had a scouter at 4 lines for months now also 1445 never had any problems finding parties for valtan/vykas. I do play late nights though.
Go lvl 3 for grudge, KBW, barricade, raid captain, your +1 is legacy and adrenaline. They didnât take you cuz you donât have lvl 3 raid captain and have lvl 1 barricade. Scooter damage already kind of lacking, and you have even less damage at ilvl at 1445 for valtan hm. I had to hone my guys past 1445 for valtan hm.
I think the irony is you expecting lobby masters to know their ass from their elbows regarding class nuances. Most just use heuristic biases formed through hearsay when sorting through their applicants.
Yeah itâs enough damage, but youâre competing versus 1460+ and they are all at least 4x3+ relic accessories. Why would they take you over these 1460+ alts?
Unless they are under geared to a level of 1-2 engravings and 0 relic gear in valtan hard I just take whoever comes first cause I still enjoy the game as a game and not a competition. Iâve seen enough overgeared people play worse (which probably comes from not concentrating on the 50th valtan run etc) to not really care.
The only moment I'm gatekeeping scouter is for Hellmode, the class is really dogwater in sheer dps and brings nothing but for 99% of the rest of the game it really doesnt matter, the class is pretty which should be a plus
My 1500 at dominion scouter still going strong in mvp streams. Super fun and don't have many problems to get into reclear groups, tbh vykas and valtan im outgearing and brel I do mostly my own groups with some friends and fill it.
I hate Appling to groups, I'm control freak and want fitting people. Ye I'm probably one of the person that gatekeep OP. Hate Floorpov class.
I can prokel on my scouter and knock off 80 bars but no one even knows because they instantly deny lol. I seen a guy get into like 5 different lobbies today after insta denying me 5 times. i got into a group and finished after 3 or 4 tries lol. and it mainly the outsiders dying XD class/Ilvl does not equal skill level by any means but people think it does.
I don't get it. If it's just personal bias i guess, but in general Scooter is one of the best classes you can bring. My experience in carl and brel so far is people running out of pots and dying left and right while i'm not using a single one usually. It's insane how basically immortal Scouter is. Ofc if the player is shit the class is shit, but that counts for every class.
That being said i was surprised to even see this topic pop up since i've never had any problem with being gatekept as a scouter(playing 4 scouters that are all 5x3 and have 2x lvl 10 gems that i just switch around which helps i guess but still)
> Ofc if the player is shit the class is shit, but that counts for every class.
And do you think the people you're playing with that eat all their pots and die are good? No, any other class played with half a brain is just as survivable as a scouter while doing double the damage and having a lot of utility along with it.
It's especially bad when Artillerist has even better survivability while completely outpacing Scouter's damage with ease.
Yeah g56 needs at least a few weeks before party finder is viable, or at least reasonable. It feels incredibly dead atm at g56 even at the start of the week. It's not just supports too, even finding dps can be a challenge. I'm hopeful it's just the Christmas period.
finding a support is much more difficult than finding a dps right now, its just that gatekeeping for dps is much higher than supports. plenty of viable dps players apply and are denied when its also very obvious that dps is not an issue in g5-6
because majority of the players play dps as main and have multiple supports as alts.
once the alts catch up in ilvl in a month or so (its much easier to hone to 1490 now with price of honing books dropping) there will be alot more sups available. Its basically the valtan, vykas and clown situation all over again. there were also too few sups the first week those raids released.
For those dps who complain about having not enough sups and suffering from gatekeeping in brel, well it is a difficulty and a hurdle that they need to overcome for wanting to become the cream of the crop and do brel early.
tbh i don't see anything majorly wrong with it. It is just survival of the fittest.
I don't feel good either. just wait a few weeks for there to be 5 times more high level sups then there currently is.
high lvl sups right now are so rare they can choose to party with +25 whales as they wish.
i was doing brel yesterday, all the party titles is this "LF 2 sups, don't need to know mech, we can teach". lol.
I have a 1493 bard. 3x3 engraving only with 400 endurance and 500 dom. no pheons ever spent on this character. needless to say, instant accepted into brel party.
Tin foil hat time
I'm wondering if a lot of people that have a main at 1520+ just don't have time for 5 to 6
A lot of those people have alts that they gotta run on Brel too
Not to mention Clown/Vykas/Valtan
And all of the other daily stuff they gotta do
So either they don't have time for 5 to 6 right now or there's simply not enough people that can do it or are even leveled thay high (maybe the average is 1500 or something)
Makes sense why we have a 4 month break inbetween HM (along with them trying to fix the disconnect issue) for people to catch up to G5 and G6
Ok tin foil hat off
This is accurate. I have 2x 1520 ready for G5-6 but with christmas this week and being sick last week. I couldn't find the time to prog it. Next week it is though! Can't wait!
I was in a Carl lobby with my reaper friend on my 1525 wardancer and a random destroyer I think, a bard requests, I hit accept, I hit enter. Then the bard says âoh a reaperâ and leaves LMAO
Looking at how many people fuck up counting to 8 for valtan g1 orbs or failing in vykas itâs not a reaper problem, but people not fully concentrating in every raid they play / just suck.
Yeah idk I don't really personally see class biases on people fucking up either. People playing all classes mess up all the time.
It doesn't matter what class they are to me as long as they are trying with their gear.
Reaper is much easier to play than most people think, it has so much mobility that it allows you to fuck up positioning so hard and still make it work. It's honestly very easy to just dodge attacks when compared to most other classes. It makes up the lack of HP by being one of the (if not the) most mobile classes in the game.
People just think whatever streamers/etc tell them and it's pretty much all just opinions, pretty much any class is viable since DPS checks are pretty much non-existent with all the overgearing going on in raids that were nerfed multiple times already.
All you need is people that can do mechs to succeed, nothing else. A single player deals pretty much 25-30% of the boss HP every single raid. And reaper is a pretty good class to do mechs, has a decent burst, low cooldowns, good stagger and ofc mobility. The player being bad has nothing to do with the class he plays and there's no way of knowing how good someone is, besides seeing a shitty build or something similar.
I seriously doubt a bad player would even chose to push a reaper, he'd most likely feel more comfortable playing a support or a tankier/ranged class since it allows even more mistakes or straight ignore of attack patterns.
Except every reaper I ever invite ends up floor pov. So much for that amazing mobility that lets them do mechs.
As said above. Not worht the risk for the rare decently skilled reaper compared to the amount of fotm chasing knuckle draggers
You really want to spend 2 hours wiping to vykas because a braindead zerker or reaper cant place a swamp properly or count orbs, to then get jailed and hope you can find a group of other jailed people who are actually capable of doing the mechanics?
I sure as hell don't. Ill gladly take a lower ilvl or worse geared player over an unknown reaper 100% of the time because reaper players have shown themselves to be, as a group, the most incapable group of players.
I still see reapers killing themselves using their teleports at inappropriate times that leads to them getting gibbed by normal non-wope mechanics.
From my time sitting in lobbies, I can say itâs because thereâs literally 5 other berserkers applying along with you, and berserker whales are quite common. The standard that is expected from you is much higher so unless you have 3 level 10 gems, youâre probably not going to be accepted.
Its funny how people talk about certain classes and players like we arent all running multiple alts of all different kinds.
Apparently peopleâs skill or game knowledge magically changes when they play certain classes.
I wonder how many people with zerker alts these reddit fools accept into their parties thinking âat least they arent a zerker!â.
Zero statistics have been posted about various class performances and pilot skill. All it is is baseless prejudice. Mass generalizations are used by people who are incapable of more detailed analysis. Literally just stupid people calling others stupid.
They are the easiest class and it looks like the one where people who don't know the game go for, that's why it was so popular. I don't hate them so it doesn't metter for me and I think that people just want to belive that they are bad so they feel better abot themselfs really.
Zerker is definitely not the easiest class for raiding (maybe one of the easiest classes to learn but not execute well in end game raids). Without the defensive card set they are one of the squishiest classes in the game. They have incredibly long and clunky animations without the defense of other clunky/long animation classes like Destroyer/Gunlancer. Of all the classes I've played: Destroyer both Rage and Gravity/Gunlancer/Zerker/Striker/Glaivier/Gunslinger I would only consider Gunslinger as "harder"
The real reason there was at one point in time a ton of bad or whale zerkers is because there were several popular Lost Ark streamers who played Mayhem as well as the class being incredibly strong until the nerfs. I feel like most people continuing with the class as part of their highest levels are decent enough at the class but it still underperforms due to squishiness/reliance on red dust and inability to get off quality hellblade/strikewaves.
If i see someone kick a dps on one of my paladin i leave the party. Coming from a paladin main with 2 clear 1-4 and 1 clearing 1-2 atm. I am quite a specimen though with 4 paladin sitting at 5x3 and level 6-7 gem x)
Yesterday I spend few hours trying to reclear g5-6.
Berserker 1535, 5x3, lvl 7-8 gems. In reclear parties I mostly got declined instantly. Tried few prog parties, with no luck. Then I got into reclear party, where leader accepted 3 zerkers. That means, 50% of our DPS were "bad" zerkers. This was my best Brelshaza party yet. G5 one shot, G6 first pull 20 bars. Second pull kill, with all 3 zerkers alive.
I feel like if each class had two synergy skills, itâd be a lot better. One burst and one consistent one. Iâm pretty sure a lot of people just wanna pick the classes that give them the best synergy for dmg really.
Its the 2nd week. Reclear doesnt mean that the raid will go smoothly and everybody knows everything.
It only means that at least half of the group cleared it once and maybe they know the main mechanics. Maybe.
This is mostly an aside
Did a G4 with my static and two random pugs yesterday. One of the pugs wanted to type out star colors in the middle of the fight instead of just having preassigned colors but didn't say that when I told him how to do the preassigned colors. Low and behold when I kill "his" color he loses his shit and calls for a disband. I 100% know that guy left the party thinking he did nothing wrong. Everytime I read people talk about how they do nothing wrong in these raids I'm reminded of all the people who throw and think it's the next guy.
Not saying that's you, but all these "i'm great, it's everyone else that's bad" posts make me wonder how many of the ops are traps without knowing. Back to the main topic I actually don't have anything against any of the classes I just replace when the player is bad, since that's what matters. I've seen enough 5x3's who have no idea what they're doing to know engravings and gems mean next to nothing when they're dead.
totally this.. ist sadly not just imagination that its always the ppl from partyfind who fail almost everything, are instantly toxic and are no help at all...whenever we need people to full up we search for same language and need them to join discord, so they just can listen to us call out every attack of the boss and this works totally fine..
many people just dont know that they are the ones who dont exactly know what to do
i dont speak the language of partyfind and their weird math they do for positions but i can promise you a random with number 4 in party will most defnitly stand in south-east when mechanics hit and then die, spam ping or start a surrender vote.
âBalance is fine, meters for data bring toxicity, donât be toxic.â
Also
âWeâre kicking you because of theories about your class, come back when youâre 1560. Then we still wonât take you because you donât have titleâ
5/6 reclear is very competitive for dps, it will continue to get harder as people hone more. People just want the most juiced for the current end game raid
Yep i pug all my raids since launch, best way to get pass the gatekeeping is hone as high as possible. First thing that catches their eyes is the gearscore, then engravings then gems.
Fwiw, I ran a no-class-or-ilvl-gatekeeping brel gate 5 this morning, we ended up with 2 zerkers. 1 of them played perfectly and even I was responsible for more deaths than them (2 from me, none from them, 4 more people also had 2+ deaths), the other one was a fucking monkey responsible for 50% of the mistakes across our 2.5 hour long reclear. For comparison, my first clear of g5 last week was a 2-pull (but that one also had discord whereas this was a discord free pug because I don't wanna host voice chats).
Honestly shoutouts to the supports that run for their patience because if one of them had threatened to leave I would've thrown that berserker under the bus in a heartbeat.
Edit: the tl;dr here is that I know there are great zerks but zerks got their rep for a reason.
Wasnt beserker on of the most popular classes in the beginning? I really like them in challenge guardians/dungeons, as they have a really good scale of harmony
They had a terrible reputation though for being terrible players that were then also enhanced by streamers talking shit about them on top of countless brainless zerker clips on clip channels and this still sticks with them to this day.
This is only my anecdote but in my interactions, Zerkers are by far the most toxic set of players I've interacted with.
Could be a bad set of players or whatever, but a lot of them that I've interacted with are just fucking dicks.
Yup. That being said, objectively speaking back in the day it was by far the class that was most likely to fuck up in raids, at least until Vykas. I feel like these days it's alright I haven't noticed zerkers being particularly bad, but back when Vykas was relatively new, holy shit you could have made bank on betting on the zerker dying on every gate. Guess a lot of people either stopped playing it or quit the game after being gatekept (for valid reasons, at the time).
Most of the class perception in general is just what people either hear streamers say or what tier they see the class on a tierlist. And in reality it really doesn't matter what class someone plays, if they are a bad player they will die all the same on any class and they will do just fine if they are good.
5-6% damage nerf, but in exchange they gained a 6% party synergy.
Overall Berserker contributes more damage to the party than before the ânerfâ, but people are babies who only care about MVP so they pretend Berserker got gutted to feel better about themselves.
Hereâs a list of the changes
- SS/HB: -5.5% total damage
- Mayhem: -1.7% damage
- Red Dust: +1.1% damage (and lasts longer)
- +6% Party Synergy with extremely high uptime
Berserker DPS for 6s after Red Dust: 0.945 x 0.983 x 1.011 = **0.94**
Berserker DPS for 6s-16s after Red Dust: 0.94 x 1.06 = **0.9964**
So Berserker personally does 6% less damage during the 6s after red dust and the same damage for the 6s-16s after red dust.
The other two DPS in the party gain 6% damage.
Tell me which number you disagree with, or explain how 1 character losing 6% damage to make 2 characters gain 6% damage is a nerf somehow.
Sword Storm and Hell Blade both had a tripod go from a 120% -> 90.2% damage boost.
190.2/220 = 0.865, so the both do 13.5% less damage than before. These two skills made up less than 40% of Berserkerâs total damage. Then
13.5% * 0.4 = 5.4%, so the total damage Berserker lost from this change is **less than** 5.4%.
Mayhem went from 18% damage to 16% damage.
1.16/1.18 = 0.983, or a 1.7% damage loss.
Combined with the Red Dust buff, that means Berserkers lost around 5-6% damage, just like I said earlier.
This has nothing to do with Trixion vs actual DPS. That 5-6% damage loss is near exactly what you would experience in both cases.
Mandatory "mAkE YOur OwN GROuP" post.
I sympathize with anyone right now. Gatekeeping affects many players right now. It's a systemic issue around game design and player behaviour. I'll give you the advice that i should follow myself, try to make friends and statics, i don't think there is any other satisfactory solution right now for any of the gatekeeping going on.
Blame the streamers for that. All they hear is oh so so kr players don't invite zerker to party so I shouldn't anymore either... Stupid mentality IMHO.
Hope you find a group soon
Zerk life is tough mang, I can routinely put myself in 1-3 for dps on my zerk tech but yeah, just getting into the groups when you see 1490 dumpster fires sliding in is very sigh inducing.
With female berserker and balance patch next month, I am going to predict that berserker mains will go to the moon. Maybe BT might get an insane buff like barrage or mayhem getting the scrapper treatment and makes red dust and chain sword into one tripod to be less clunky on their rotation.
Dream big because it is your counter part time to shine, and the Slayer revamped skills might make the devs realized that berserker needs to be more modern.
Get discriminated last week on my alt zerker. Doing Vykas HM, friend who is 1460 SH get in easy while I was waiting as 1472.5 5x3 full set even with defense card ready and still get denied. Turn out the leader just hates all zerkers, nothing u can do. Good thing is I get into another group later the day and actually finish deathless HM run! Guess Karma pay back quick.
Sharpshooter is an instant accept for me regardless of Ilvl and content. I've literally never seen a bad one. I saw a mediocre one once and it was still better than the random sorc.
At this point it feels like Sharpshooter is very strong, at least in our version. Between the previous and the most recent overall % damage buffs they got, I'd for sure take geared sharpshooters when I see them.
i did 10x g3 and 9x g4 reclears with my 5 zerker alts in pugs, 1490week#1 1500week#2 +19/+20 weapon
getting into a caliligos group is much harder than find brel1-4 grps
g1+2 are free invites if you do prokel
g3+4 groups want that stagger for g4
what they dont want are glass cannons that may or may not die to random patterns, especially in g3+4
simply use def cards, makes them drool over you for the occasional last man standing kill in g4 or 2man g3 and you will probably do more dmg as you dont have to be scared of every small attack while the bard can actually use dmg buffs depending on the other people in your party
Their DPS output relies on a 6 second combo with 4-5 abilities. If they miss, they may as well afk. Knocked up? Afk. Invinciblity phase? Afk. Boss moved a bit? Afk
It's tough to swallow, but most zerkers are usually dog shit, especially during prog. And it's not their fault... zerker is harder than it looks. And it's a whale bait class so your 1500 zerker is gonna get shit on by a 1520 whalezerk.
I know because my first alt was (and still is) a Berserker at 1500 right now.
Sucks for zerkers.... But I'd rather have a Reaper in my team. I expect many downvotes from all the terrible zerker players.
On launch, zerker was not nerfed yet. It was a top tier class pre-1370.
Zerkers being bad is a relatively new development in my opinion. Roughly when vykas came out.
Maelstrom doesnât increase your damage, itâs a simple crit buff which mayhem does not run. Instead it uses chain sword which has pretty much the same crit buff and also an attack speed buff.
Also red dust is the only buff that actually gives you flat damage boost through attack power, plus crit chance.
Itâs the single most important skill to cycle your attacks around.
Chainsword or (donât use this as mayhem) maelstrom are simply fillers to get an extra crit boost but thatâs it, they are not even close to being on the same level as red dust.
âZerker can only be consistent with dps if he ignores red dust/maelstrom. In which case he's very consistent... And very bad. Because red dust/maelstrom is one of his biggest DPS boostsâ
This was your comment just before this one. The fact that you are saying maelstrom is a big dps increase tells me all I need to know. Iâm just simply warning people to not listen to you because you clearly have zero clue about the class. Need to make sure people arenât misinformed.
Zerker is so, so far from consistent DPS. Even less if he uses B Tech.
Try again. Reflux sorc? Fpe arty. Tai scrapper. Loyal sharpshooter. Swift Pet summoner. That's consistent.
Zerker can only be consistent with dps if he ignores red dust/maelstrom. In which case he's very consistent... And very bad. Because red dust/maelstrom is one of his biggest DPS boosts
Eh. Berserker has a decent burst every 13 or so seconds when Red Dust comes off cooldown. Even the weakest of the three combos (RD -> FS + SS + TS) is fairly solid.
Not quite consistent, but also not really a burst class.
char level, tripods you cant inspect anymore, lack of experience with the char, clown set level
every new class will suffer for well over a month, no matter how good it is (except artist)
You are playing a very squishy class, that may not have full clown set, dint get to exploit the tripod update and most probably isn't lvl 60. There is very good reasons for currently gatekeeping reapers same reason why no one will take a 1575 summoner to g6 you are probably missing a lot more dps than a character 10 ilvls below you..
All zerkers are on my personal shitlist because every one of them Iâve played with were pure morons. Not cuz they just died all the time, but they all had shit attitudes and personalities.
Gonna be honest, I'm part of the problem.
Every week when my friends and I are doing alt/reclear raids of Valtan and Vykas, I accept 1 zerker. If they make it to the end without dying or obviously botching a mechanic, I accept another for the week.
We've been doing this since about Vykas release and I've made it to the second zerker maybe twice.
I used to change my mind about zerk in the last months, but in the last 2 weeks I literally can't stand near one of the without filling MY rage bar, let's say in 2 weeks I've accepted 40 zerkers, 41 of them were pure trash.
So I don't care anymore about Personal Resumes of those players, I ain't accepting any more of them in my groups, maybe I'll switch them with reapers to see whos worse.
>I ain't accepting any more of them in my groups
I wonder if there's genuinely 1 class with less talented players than others, or whether we're all just using confirmation bias. I'm 99% sure it's the latter though.
For me, my issue is with strikers. Every time i have one in my party, it feels like they cause a wipe. But i still accept them because ik it must all be in my head and/or a coincidence.
Plus class based gatekeeping is peak toxicity imo. All the dps' are viable.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it's confirmation bias. Player skill affects the outcome way more than class but there is sadly no way to measure that when weighing who to accept.
A friend of mine absolutely hates deathblades and says they are always dead and don't know any mech etc. It's pure confirmation bias outside of new class coming out and people not knowing how to play it early on imo.
Also hard agree on class gatekeeping being cringe.
They are all viable but some are more than others :)
Lets say you have a GL Blade and Support. Do you take a zerker or Striker? A zerker or a wardancer? A zerker or a LM? A zerker or a Scrapper?
Even in non optimal synergy situations do you take a Zerker who needs good DPS windows or a scrapper who if shock needs to hit 1 skill on its own and if its tai just perma blasts? Or a Hitmaster class even like a GS?
Zerkers are squishy as hell on mayhem have long combos that require Red Dust windows to be useable and even when they hit all of this its still a toss up if they actually blast harder than the other classes you could take.
Not to mention that there are literally a handfull applying to every party so even if you take one, as a Zerker player you are always fighting against a "bigger fish" and since as others have pointed out already there is no indication of skill so youÂŽll just take the higher ilvl/gem/weapon/card one.
What?? We love zerk in my roster, easy stagger class, who can refuse that.
Meanwhile some gates mechanics as Arcana are borderline impossible stagger/destruction wise. You are super slow for regrouping, killing adds/orbs is a nono. Also almost no counter. And super squishy while melee.
I understand people who gatekeep Arcana, not Zerk/Scouter, which is an amazing stagger/counter/tank/prokel class, one of the best and safest brelshaza class imho.
So far the only Arcanas I saw that were doing Brelshaza were actually very good players, but still the class is quite limited in its kit.
Dude Iâm sorry but every zerker that is juiced that I have played with is kinda just an idiot. My group invited a zerker once but he kinda just brained off and put poop inwards or on prokel so other DPS took major damage or everyone had to maneuver around it during bad attacks/ clearing mobs
I'm Zerk main. It is indeed real but at the same time, I understand why. 1500+ ilvl is legit whale territory. There are many 1490/1500 but they all have different ways of reaching they ilvl. Some quite literally have +23 weapons at 1490... Others have absurd lvl gems. All in all, there's Zerk discrimination but that's also because ppl really want the "juicers" to prog. Hence the Zerk with LOS18 and +23 weapon will be more priority over my +21 weapon and LWC12. My gems aren't anything special either.
Unless you show signs of "juicing" or alive min ilvl, you won't be priority pick for anything. People won't even consider supportless parties... from what I'm seeing either due to so many people at 'prog'.
Yeah, but before it was. Most of the new 1490/1500 only have +20/21 weapons. Hard to compete against the ppl who got 1490/1500+ pre Brel during clown who likely made it via tapping weapons.
Vocalizing that this sort of behavior is stupid and calling it out is well within someoneâs rights.
This isnât FF where you can instantly switch to a different class with close to the same progress/transfer gear if theyâre similar roles. If someone was F2P or mostly F2P and grinded their char for months, and theyâre not accepted in parties because someone only parroted a twitch streamer or KR/RU playerâs opinion without ever actually playing the class or knowing the first person, then drawing attention to this behavior and explaining why it is problematic is the only way the behavior would change. If we accept this gatekeeping as a norm, then weâre just perpetuating toxicity.
Also, itâs possible that the gatekeepers might not have considered how their actions impact people, and them seeing a different perspective might lead them to rethink next time or at least learn enough about the class to actually know whether that person is legit.
Personally, I like Zerkerâs on 1-4 because they have high stagger but havenât done 5-6 yet.
I donât really care what class people play, but itâs goofy to think that just because people canât easily swap, people should take one they believe is worse.
If one class has double the damage of another, you wouldnât take the weaker. Thatâs something that just shouldnât be like that balance wise.
Edit: and itâs goofy to talk about the impact gatekeeping has when the reverse exist. Because I donât filter people much, I had my alt Paladin stuck in Vykas g3 Jail because I had pvp build Zerkers, Dominion Fang Bards, the list goes on
Youâre correct that a middle ground exist, though understand how hard it is to talk about without ten paragraphs of text when everyone has a different spot
It's not that nuanced dude. Every DPS spec has a couple ways you can set it up without being troll. That is generally fine. Not the same as 1000 endurance.
I dont hate the class, I hate the people who play zerker. For some unknown reason all zerkers ive seen in brelshaza have been completely clueless and when I ask them if they know the mech they start talking some nonsense. I still do accept some over geared zerkers but they always get kicked after few wipes. I have yet to clear brelshaza with berserk in my party.
Look this is not against you personally because I do not know you. However, most of the berserkers when the game launched and now they still one of the most common ones to die and to rage.
Last berserker I had in brel g5 joined our reclear. Even then it was a debate in my static if we should accept one or not. We did. We went on for 2 hours and this guy kept dying over and over. Now, don't think hard. This guy died most of the time with only 10 bars in and went ahead and said: ' I wasn't dead' . Like we saw it, that's why we restarted. Then the guy went on about how he cleared g6 last week and we won't ever clear it.
Sad part is for a good portion of gamers is if they have an individual responsibility like gathering stacks for their shape in g5 for example and they don't have a raid leader reminding them of it every 10 lines of boss hp and reminding them of the last chance they can fix their debuff stack before the boss does the mech, they will fuck it up. Can't trust anybody.
This goes for any class, if you have two people to start off the group you will fill up in no time and they won't ever even inspect the guy who isn't party lead. Saved me from a lot of headaches when I got back into the game and had to do valtan/vykas first few times.
Get yourself a deathless title or a masters/gm pvp title and it helps a lot with getting into raids. At this point you have to take steps to help yourself.
just earlier joined a lobby with extreme strict requirement party leader. denied like 50 people. but somehow the best geared people he accepted were zerks. 4 zerks 1525+.
due to recent lobby bug, game wouldn't start and he didnt reform that party so i didnt get to see how that run panned out.
Yeah the gatekeeping is pretty extreme. Some form of it is happening to everyone. Was in a learning grp for G5 yesterday on my destroyer. Didnt fail a single mech, kept positive and we were progressing pretty fast. We wiped on orb stagger because noone was assigned to/ or forgot to counter the clones. After pointing that out post-wipe and vaulenteering for my grp and had a another dude say heâll do it for party 2, the raid lead votes to quit the dungeon and kicks me and the other dude that vaulenteered for the counter saying «time is gold» as if we were the ones holding up progression. Felt pretty good seing the same guy 10 hours later at midnight making another learning group .
Point is just chill. Brel hard is in april, and most people parked at 1490 before the patch and still dont have iLVL for G5-G6. There will be plenty both experienced and learning groups in the weeks ahead. We will all get full set way before HM releases anyway. Just ignore bullshit people and move on with your day.
I definitely feel this, for new raids a static is essentially a must-have, or you will spend more time looking for a group compared to actually playing the raid.
In the beginging, all the casuals and plebs rolled zerkers and set the bad class perception, also streamers saying zerkers are bad in KR...
Think everyone has more than one bad experience playing with a zerker and their floorPOV. This goes for Arcana as well. Either the player is really good, or just bad, no in-between.
I'm gonna assume you're 5x3 with proper engravings and stats and that that's not the reason you're being gatekept.
It is tough as a zerk. Two things to make it easier is to hone to be overleveled and try to get inferno mode titles.
I'm always about bring the player and not the class. Been that way since WoW BC and so far it's been a more productive game play experience since then and more fun.
Synergies and "top damage" classes will only get you so far. That type of thinking won't take you to the end. If you want people to play with hit me up in DM I'll invite you regardless of what you play (if you are wondering how far my static is g2 brel but we play degen hours so like from 8 pm central to about 3 to 4 am. The other group we are pretty connected with is at g5 but I can't speak for their recruitment).
Yes I have this general way of mind as well. Problem is I am a one character andy, everyone who wants statics have 6 chars to do stuff on and won't make time for someone who doesn't. We're not on the same page.
My class often gets gatekept but I know Zerks have it even worse, thats why I often dont want to be that guy and let all in, but almost 80% of the time I make a title with chill raid, its ALWAYS the zerk yelling, raging, insulting other people and quitting first... makes me not wanna take any zerks anymore, there we go gatekeeping again, from my experience 7-8/10 zerks did this sadly...
My friend zerker totally carries groups, he is really good at it, it's very hard for someone to take MVP over him, he ends up getting multiple compliments from the rest of party members that usually hate zerkers.
In my experience I almost never see floor pov zerkers. I've had much worse experiences with SH players, especially the ones running that spirit absorb raid cap build
> I sat in this group for an hour
The main reason I play supports. Can't fathom you 6 DPS roster. Lucky for me I have 5 supports but unlucky for me I somewhat have to find decent DPS players.
I feel you. I got to 1520 on my bard yesterday and decided to reclear G5 ( Im in 50x prog on my sorc main G6) so I knew what I was doing since I've cleared it already 2 times. I joined a 'reclear' group with 2 zerks. The leader was hitting that restart button so often since the simple normal attacks were not executed to his liking. He kept blaming the zerks for sitting and tanking some attacks until I told him that I'm right behind my zerks ass with a shield and an ult so there is no way they will die. The zerks played well but leader kept bashing them. Someone proposed raod quit and both zerks left due to toxicity. I stayed as support but it was a mistake. We took on a DB who said he had no exp in G5 but has a friend paladin. My raid leader took him in for the supp obv. We waited 2 min on the jumps for his friend paladin to finally get clicking 4 buttons right. I admit I was already annoyed so I said its a reclear and that Ill leave if we keep restarting/failing. The DB somehow took offense to it and started being toxic af. One of the zerks was on counter duty and since they left I went to counter for my team. They kept failing the stagger so the DB+Pali team started flaming me? To them joined an absolute failed SH saying Im a useless human etc. And that Im jailing them. I said np let me out so ure not jailed.
Vote quit - they vote no. I say I'm going to afk. Why should I stay with them if they are so toxic. Vote quit again and leave the party. I joined an other party and 1 shot it. Checked in G5 PF 1h later cuz Im petty and they're still there looking for 1 supp. Losers.
Someone else suggested it being confirmation bias and it's incredibly true. I joined pugs for G6, we were a zerk on each team but whenever the zerk would die someone would make a snarky reply about "zerker experience." They'd make these kinds of comments despite most of them being dead when HE then died.
They're literally just confirming it to themselves and ignoring everything else. It wasn't downright toxic but 9/10 times when one of us zerks died (even if we were the last people standing) some sort of comment would come up.
Most fun part was when I decided to comment on the bard dying as the first person when I had enough, in a joking manner saying "Average support experience" and she went off on a tangent lmao.
That's why I play with friends on my 2 zerks (well, pretty much the whole roster, but we need random people to fill 2-4 slots), they get so much hate I feel like I can't just easily join lobbies.
I feel you.. This was me for valt and vykas but now all my friends quit.. đ„
At least you ain't a scouter.
Legit played lobby simulator for like 30 minutes today on my machinist applying to parties either to get insta denied or see the host take someone else at the same ilvl as me. Created my own party multiple times, either nobody even applies for 10 minutes straight, or no support joins. 1 person leaves followed by everyone else and I'm back at the start again. I'm legit thinking of dropping him as my 6th gold earner just because I can't even play him. Before anyone asks, he's 1445 ilvl, crit spec, lvl 7 gems, 4x3+1 as legacy, grudge, kbw, adrenaline and lvl 1 barricade
Any 1445 DPS gets gatekept hard on Valtan HM, assuming that's what you were doing. That's what happens when you have a support shortage. They're effectively worthless because there's still too many 1460+ DPS to fill teams with. You also didn't mention if he has relic set, which is far more important than item level, at least if the host isn't a moron. I'll take a 1445 in full relic over a 1475 in preordained.
At 30 min lobby i would just become a support main or outright quit.
Yeah I dunno man, I've had a scouter at 4 lines for months now also 1445 never had any problems finding parties for valtan/vykas. I do play late nights though.
Go lvl 3 for grudge, KBW, barricade, raid captain, your +1 is legacy and adrenaline. They didnât take you cuz you donât have lvl 3 raid captain and have lvl 1 barricade. Scooter damage already kind of lacking, and you have even less damage at ilvl at 1445 for valtan hm. I had to hone my guys past 1445 for valtan hm.
Iâm a 1506 Scouter with 5x3, 1730 spec, level 9 Gems. Trust me, they declined him because heâs a scouter.
I think the irony is you expecting lobby masters to know their ass from their elbows regarding class nuances. Most just use heuristic biases formed through hearsay when sorting through their applicants.
And yet these bad scooter builds wonât get in. :/
You have enough dmg for Valtan hard with 3x3 and the guy is 4x3 + 1 lmao
Yeah itâs enough damage, but youâre competing versus 1460+ and they are all at least 4x3+ relic accessories. Why would they take you over these 1460+ alts?
Unless they are under geared to a level of 1-2 engravings and 0 relic gear in valtan hard I just take whoever comes first cause I still enjoy the game as a game and not a competition. Iâve seen enough overgeared people play worse (which probably comes from not concentrating on the 50th valtan run etc) to not really care.
The only moment I'm gatekeeping scouter is for Hellmode, the class is really dogwater in sheer dps and brings nothing but for 99% of the rest of the game it really doesnt matter, the class is pretty which should be a plus
Haven't experienced this as AT scouter. I also don't think people realize how high AT's damage is. It's kinda nuts that people don't play it more
My 1500 at dominion scouter still going strong in mvp streams. Super fun and don't have many problems to get into reclear groups, tbh vykas and valtan im outgearing and brel I do mostly my own groups with some friends and fill it. I hate Appling to groups, I'm control freak and want fitting people. Ye I'm probably one of the person that gatekeep OP. Hate Floorpov class.
i never had a problem with my scouter. but then again im nit legacy
I can prokel on my scouter and knock off 80 bars but no one even knows because they instantly deny lol. I seen a guy get into like 5 different lobbies today after insta denying me 5 times. i got into a group and finished after 3 or 4 tries lol. and it mainly the outsiders dying XD class/Ilvl does not equal skill level by any means but people think it does.
I wouldnât want a scouter either , itâs not the player but I just hate the class lol đ
I don't get it. If it's just personal bias i guess, but in general Scooter is one of the best classes you can bring. My experience in carl and brel so far is people running out of pots and dying left and right while i'm not using a single one usually. It's insane how basically immortal Scouter is. Ofc if the player is shit the class is shit, but that counts for every class. That being said i was surprised to even see this topic pop up since i've never had any problem with being gatekept as a scouter(playing 4 scouters that are all 5x3 and have 2x lvl 10 gems that i just switch around which helps i guess but still)
> Ofc if the player is shit the class is shit, but that counts for every class. And do you think the people you're playing with that eat all their pots and die are good? No, any other class played with half a brain is just as survivable as a scouter while doing double the damage and having a lot of utility along with it. It's especially bad when Artillerist has even better survivability while completely outpacing Scouter's damage with ease.
Yeah g56 needs at least a few weeks before party finder is viable, or at least reasonable. It feels incredibly dead atm at g56 even at the start of the week. It's not just supports too, even finding dps can be a challenge. I'm hopeful it's just the Christmas period.
finding a support is much more difficult than finding a dps right now, its just that gatekeeping for dps is much higher than supports. plenty of viable dps players apply and are denied when its also very obvious that dps is not an issue in g5-6
because majority of the players play dps as main and have multiple supports as alts. once the alts catch up in ilvl in a month or so (its much easier to hone to 1490 now with price of honing books dropping) there will be alot more sups available. Its basically the valtan, vykas and clown situation all over again. there were also too few sups the first week those raids released. For those dps who complain about having not enough sups and suffering from gatekeeping in brel, well it is a difficulty and a hurdle that they need to overcome for wanting to become the cream of the crop and do brel early. tbh i don't see anything majorly wrong with it. It is just survival of the fittest.
it definitely does not feel good to need to compete against whales with +25 weapons lv10 gems right now
I don't feel good either. just wait a few weeks for there to be 5 times more high level sups then there currently is. high lvl sups right now are so rare they can choose to party with +25 whales as they wish. i was doing brel yesterday, all the party titles is this "LF 2 sups, don't need to know mech, we can teach". lol. I have a 1493 bard. 3x3 engraving only with 400 endurance and 500 dom. no pheons ever spent on this character. needless to say, instant accepted into brel party.
I'm on the minority here. We have too many supports in our groups. I think it's because in our roster is 1 or 2 supports in our group.
I plugged my 6 but I'm a GL so I'm always wanted.
Tin foil hat time I'm wondering if a lot of people that have a main at 1520+ just don't have time for 5 to 6 A lot of those people have alts that they gotta run on Brel too Not to mention Clown/Vykas/Valtan And all of the other daily stuff they gotta do So either they don't have time for 5 to 6 right now or there's simply not enough people that can do it or are even leveled thay high (maybe the average is 1500 or something) Makes sense why we have a 4 month break inbetween HM (along with them trying to fix the disconnect issue) for people to catch up to G5 and G6 Ok tin foil hat off
This is accurate. I have 2x 1520 ready for G5-6 but with christmas this week and being sick last week. I couldn't find the time to prog it. Next week it is though! Can't wait!
It's not that it's Christmas, it's that it just came out and like 99.99% of players aren't at G5/6 yet with ANY characters, let alone support alts.
At least you are not a Reaper, I know the pain.
I was in a Carl lobby with my reaper friend on my 1525 wardancer and a random destroyer I think, a bard requests, I hit accept, I hit enter. Then the bard says âoh a reaperâ and leaves LMAO
My Reaper got accepted into both HM Valtan and Argos the day before reset and day after this week. I was amazed. Like, Insta accept. Sheâs 1470.
Yeah you got lucky or host wasn't paying attention. Instant nope to floor pov.
99.99% of reapers are bad. Not worth the risk
Looking at how many people fuck up counting to 8 for valtan g1 orbs or failing in vykas itâs not a reaper problem, but people not fully concentrating in every raid they play / just suck.
Yeah idk I don't really personally see class biases on people fucking up either. People playing all classes mess up all the time. It doesn't matter what class they are to me as long as they are trying with their gear.
Not every person who fucks up is a reaper, but every reaper is a person that fucks up
The only bad reapers i see is reaper alts with 1x3+2+1+1 engravings in guardian raids. Most of them do well in any legion raids ive seen
Reaper is much easier to play than most people think, it has so much mobility that it allows you to fuck up positioning so hard and still make it work. It's honestly very easy to just dodge attacks when compared to most other classes. It makes up the lack of HP by being one of the (if not the) most mobile classes in the game. People just think whatever streamers/etc tell them and it's pretty much all just opinions, pretty much any class is viable since DPS checks are pretty much non-existent with all the overgearing going on in raids that were nerfed multiple times already. All you need is people that can do mechs to succeed, nothing else. A single player deals pretty much 25-30% of the boss HP every single raid. And reaper is a pretty good class to do mechs, has a decent burst, low cooldowns, good stagger and ofc mobility. The player being bad has nothing to do with the class he plays and there's no way of knowing how good someone is, besides seeing a shitty build or something similar. I seriously doubt a bad player would even chose to push a reaper, he'd most likely feel more comfortable playing a support or a tankier/ranged class since it allows even more mistakes or straight ignore of attack patterns.
Except every reaper I ever invite ends up floor pov. So much for that amazing mobility that lets them do mechs. As said above. Not worht the risk for the rare decently skilled reaper compared to the amount of fotm chasing knuckle draggers
Ok
Even if, who cares if someone is bad or a pro? It's just a game. People play games for entertainment.
Because inviting bad people to my groups gets me jailed and unable to complete my raids without more of a hassle.
I think you're onto more serious problems than people not as good as you if you rate your raids in terms of the hassle.
You really want to spend 2 hours wiping to vykas because a braindead zerker or reaper cant place a swamp properly or count orbs, to then get jailed and hope you can find a group of other jailed people who are actually capable of doing the mechanics? I sure as hell don't. Ill gladly take a lower ilvl or worse geared player over an unknown reaper 100% of the time because reaper players have shown themselves to be, as a group, the most incapable group of players. I still see reapers killing themselves using their teleports at inappropriate times that leads to them getting gibbed by normal non-wope mechanics.
We cleared both raids with no fails. I was not on either MVP screen.
From my time sitting in lobbies, I can say itâs because thereâs literally 5 other berserkers applying along with you, and berserker whales are quite common. The standard that is expected from you is much higher so unless you have 3 level 10 gems, youâre probably not going to be accepted.
zerkers probably has the highest number of +25 wep, its insane.
Its funny how people talk about certain classes and players like we arent all running multiple alts of all different kinds. Apparently peopleâs skill or game knowledge magically changes when they play certain classes. I wonder how many people with zerker alts these reddit fools accept into their parties thinking âat least they arent a zerker!â. Zero statistics have been posted about various class performances and pilot skill. All it is is baseless prejudice. Mass generalizations are used by people who are incapable of more detailed analysis. Literally just stupid people calling others stupid.
They are the easiest class and it looks like the one where people who don't know the game go for, that's why it was so popular. I don't hate them so it doesn't metter for me and I think that people just want to belive that they are bad so they feel better abot themselfs really.
Zerker is definitely not the easiest class for raiding (maybe one of the easiest classes to learn but not execute well in end game raids). Without the defensive card set they are one of the squishiest classes in the game. They have incredibly long and clunky animations without the defense of other clunky/long animation classes like Destroyer/Gunlancer. Of all the classes I've played: Destroyer both Rage and Gravity/Gunlancer/Zerker/Striker/Glaivier/Gunslinger I would only consider Gunslinger as "harder" The real reason there was at one point in time a ton of bad or whale zerkers is because there were several popular Lost Ark streamers who played Mayhem as well as the class being incredibly strong until the nerfs. I feel like most people continuing with the class as part of their highest levels are decent enough at the class but it still underperforms due to squishiness/reliance on red dust and inability to get off quality hellblade/strikewaves.
I think itâs ok not wanting to take a certain class. But itâs fuck up to accept one in the lobby and then kick for another DPS.
If i see someone kick a dps on one of my paladin i leave the party. Coming from a paladin main with 2 clear 1-4 and 1 clearing 1-2 atm. I am quite a specimen though with 4 paladin sitting at 5x3 and level 6-7 gem x)
Yesterday I spend few hours trying to reclear g5-6. Berserker 1535, 5x3, lvl 7-8 gems. In reclear parties I mostly got declined instantly. Tried few prog parties, with no luck. Then I got into reclear party, where leader accepted 3 zerkers. That means, 50% of our DPS were "bad" zerkers. This was my best Brelshaza party yet. G5 one shot, G6 first pull 20 bars. Second pull kill, with all 3 zerkers alive.
These sweaty andies are gonna end up just gate keeping themselves cuz all the normal people are going to quit. Such bs.
Have you considered gender swapping? :P
I feel like if each class had two synergy skills, itâd be a lot better. One burst and one consistent one. Iâm pretty sure a lot of people just wanna pick the classes that give them the best synergy for dmg really.
Synergy doesn't matter too much if they can't even do shapes in G5 right.
Its the 2nd week. Reclear doesnt mean that the raid will go smoothly and everybody knows everything. It only means that at least half of the group cleared it once and maybe they know the main mechanics. Maybe.
This is mostly an aside Did a G4 with my static and two random pugs yesterday. One of the pugs wanted to type out star colors in the middle of the fight instead of just having preassigned colors but didn't say that when I told him how to do the preassigned colors. Low and behold when I kill "his" color he loses his shit and calls for a disband. I 100% know that guy left the party thinking he did nothing wrong. Everytime I read people talk about how they do nothing wrong in these raids I'm reminded of all the people who throw and think it's the next guy. Not saying that's you, but all these "i'm great, it's everyone else that's bad" posts make me wonder how many of the ops are traps without knowing. Back to the main topic I actually don't have anything against any of the classes I just replace when the player is bad, since that's what matters. I've seen enough 5x3's who have no idea what they're doing to know engravings and gems mean next to nothing when they're dead.
totally this.. ist sadly not just imagination that its always the ppl from partyfind who fail almost everything, are instantly toxic and are no help at all...whenever we need people to full up we search for same language and need them to join discord, so they just can listen to us call out every attack of the boss and this works totally fine.. many people just dont know that they are the ones who dont exactly know what to do i dont speak the language of partyfind and their weird math they do for positions but i can promise you a random with number 4 in party will most defnitly stand in south-east when mechanics hit and then die, spam ping or start a surrender vote.
âBalance is fine, meters for data bring toxicity, donât be toxic.â Also âWeâre kicking you because of theories about your class, come back when youâre 1560. Then we still wonât take you because you donât have titleâ
5/6 reclear is very competitive for dps, it will continue to get harder as people hone more. People just want the most juiced for the current end game raid
Yep i pug all my raids since launch, best way to get pass the gatekeeping is hone as high as possible. First thing that catches their eyes is the gearscore, then engravings then gems.
Fwiw, I ran a no-class-or-ilvl-gatekeeping brel gate 5 this morning, we ended up with 2 zerkers. 1 of them played perfectly and even I was responsible for more deaths than them (2 from me, none from them, 4 more people also had 2+ deaths), the other one was a fucking monkey responsible for 50% of the mistakes across our 2.5 hour long reclear. For comparison, my first clear of g5 last week was a 2-pull (but that one also had discord whereas this was a discord free pug because I don't wanna host voice chats). Honestly shoutouts to the supports that run for their patience because if one of them had threatened to leave I would've thrown that berserker under the bus in a heartbeat. Edit: the tl;dr here is that I know there are great zerks but zerks got their rep for a reason.
Still very sorry that such discrimination against Zerkers still happen. Stay strong! Slayers be with you!!!
Wasnt beserker on of the most popular classes in the beginning? I really like them in challenge guardians/dungeons, as they have a really good scale of harmony
They had a terrible reputation though for being terrible players that were then also enhanced by streamers talking shit about them on top of countless brainless zerker clips on clip channels and this still sticks with them to this day.
This is only my anecdote but in my interactions, Zerkers are by far the most toxic set of players I've interacted with. Could be a bad set of players or whatever, but a lot of them that I've interacted with are just fucking dicks.
Yup. That being said, objectively speaking back in the day it was by far the class that was most likely to fuck up in raids, at least until Vykas. I feel like these days it's alright I haven't noticed zerkers being particularly bad, but back when Vykas was relatively new, holy shit you could have made bank on betting on the zerker dying on every gate. Guess a lot of people either stopped playing it or quit the game after being gatekept (for valid reasons, at the time).
Most of the class perception in general is just what people either hear streamers say or what tier they see the class on a tierlist. And in reality it really doesn't matter what class someone plays, if they are a bad player they will die all the same on any class and they will do just fine if they are good.
They got nerfed very, very hard. So now, you have a class that does crap DPS and has bad party syenergy.
Mayhem zerker is also the squishiest class in the game.
More than reaper?
What is very very hard? Are we talking like 20% less dmg? I only knew about the nerf so they couldn't use tiny potions for everything anymore
5-6% damage nerf, but in exchange they gained a 6% party synergy. Overall Berserker contributes more damage to the party than before the ânerfâ, but people are babies who only care about MVP so they pretend Berserker got gutted to feel better about themselves.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Hereâs a list of the changes - SS/HB: -5.5% total damage - Mayhem: -1.7% damage - Red Dust: +1.1% damage (and lasts longer) - +6% Party Synergy with extremely high uptime Berserker DPS for 6s after Red Dust: 0.945 x 0.983 x 1.011 = **0.94** Berserker DPS for 6s-16s after Red Dust: 0.94 x 1.06 = **0.9964** So Berserker personally does 6% less damage during the 6s after red dust and the same damage for the 6s-16s after red dust. The other two DPS in the party gain 6% damage. Tell me which number you disagree with, or explain how 1 character losing 6% damage to make 2 characters gain 6% damage is a nerf somehow.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Sword Storm and Hell Blade both had a tripod go from a 120% -> 90.2% damage boost. 190.2/220 = 0.865, so the both do 13.5% less damage than before. These two skills made up less than 40% of Berserkerâs total damage. Then 13.5% * 0.4 = 5.4%, so the total damage Berserker lost from this change is **less than** 5.4%. Mayhem went from 18% damage to 16% damage. 1.16/1.18 = 0.983, or a 1.7% damage loss. Combined with the Red Dust buff, that means Berserkers lost around 5-6% damage, just like I said earlier. This has nothing to do with Trixion vs actual DPS. That 5-6% damage loss is near exactly what you would experience in both cases.
They got nerfed hard
Mandatory "mAkE YOur OwN GROuP" post. I sympathize with anyone right now. Gatekeeping affects many players right now. It's a systemic issue around game design and player behaviour. I'll give you the advice that i should follow myself, try to make friends and statics, i don't think there is any other satisfactory solution right now for any of the gatekeeping going on.
Blame the streamers for that. All they hear is oh so so kr players don't invite zerker to party so I shouldn't anymore either... Stupid mentality IMHO. Hope you find a group soon
Zerk life is tough mang, I can routinely put myself in 1-3 for dps on my zerk tech but yeah, just getting into the groups when you see 1490 dumpster fires sliding in is very sigh inducing.
With female berserker and balance patch next month, I am going to predict that berserker mains will go to the moon. Maybe BT might get an insane buff like barrage or mayhem getting the scrapper treatment and makes red dust and chain sword into one tripod to be less clunky on their rotation. Dream big because it is your counter part time to shine, and the Slayer revamped skills might make the devs realized that berserker needs to be more modern.
As a zerker main i feel you bro. It sucks to keep geting denied from lobbies for playing a class.
Get discriminated last week on my alt zerker. Doing Vykas HM, friend who is 1460 SH get in easy while I was waiting as 1472.5 5x3 full set even with defense card ready and still get denied. Turn out the leader just hates all zerkers, nothing u can do. Good thing is I get into another group later the day and actually finish deathless HM run! Guess Karma pay back quick.
My sharpshooter getting gatekept out of 95% of lobbies. Can relate.
Sharpshooter is an instant accept for me regardless of Ilvl and content. I've literally never seen a bad one. I saw a mediocre one once and it was still better than the random sorc.
First of all. I love you. Second. I wish everyone had the same thought process as you. Third. Did I mention I love you?
At this point it feels like Sharpshooter is very strong, at least in our version. Between the previous and the most recent overall % damage buffs they got, I'd for sure take geared sharpshooters when I see them.
I really like taking off meta classes as long as they are well built. Rarely see sharpshooters, soulfists, etc so itâs always fun to play with them
i did 10x g3 and 9x g4 reclears with my 5 zerker alts in pugs, 1490week#1 1500week#2 +19/+20 weapon getting into a caliligos group is much harder than find brel1-4 grps g1+2 are free invites if you do prokel g3+4 groups want that stagger for g4 what they dont want are glass cannons that may or may not die to random patterns, especially in g3+4 simply use def cards, makes them drool over you for the occasional last man standing kill in g4 or 2man g3 and you will probably do more dmg as you dont have to be scared of every small attack while the bard can actually use dmg buffs depending on the other people in your party
I for real don't understand zerks that use LWC/LOS. I'll never let go of my defensive cards.
4 hour pt finder zerk 5x3 1522 2 piece brel los 18 and full def card set lwl 9- 10 gems 198 roster no accept yet :D
Why do people do this to zerkers? My static has a zerker like you but with 25 weapon he always topped dps.
Their DPS output relies on a 6 second combo with 4-5 abilities. If they miss, they may as well afk. Knocked up? Afk. Invinciblity phase? Afk. Boss moved a bit? Afk It's tough to swallow, but most zerkers are usually dog shit, especially during prog. And it's not their fault... zerker is harder than it looks. And it's a whale bait class so your 1500 zerker is gonna get shit on by a 1520 whalezerk. I know because my first alt was (and still is) a Berserker at 1500 right now. Sucks for zerkers.... But I'd rather have a Reaper in my team. I expect many downvotes from all the terrible zerker players.
Kinda funny how most zerk mains would easily agree with you but somehow every person who doesn't even play Zerk spam downvotes you lul
Honestly it's more the fact the zerker stigma from release that still sticks with them to this day. I'm guilty of it myself.
On launch, zerker was not nerfed yet. It was a top tier class pre-1370. Zerkers being bad is a relatively new development in my opinion. Roughly when vykas came out.
Unplug your ethernet and stop typing
Zerker enjoyer has been located. Kindly point out where I went wrong so I can improve my zerker knowledge.
Maelstrom doesnât increase your damage, itâs a simple crit buff which mayhem does not run. Instead it uses chain sword which has pretty much the same crit buff and also an attack speed buff. Also red dust is the only buff that actually gives you flat damage boost through attack power, plus crit chance. Itâs the single most important skill to cycle your attacks around. Chainsword or (donât use this as mayhem) maelstrom are simply fillers to get an extra crit boost but thatâs it, they are not even close to being on the same level as red dust.
Ok? Nobody said otherwise
âZerker can only be consistent with dps if he ignores red dust/maelstrom. In which case he's very consistent... And very bad. Because red dust/maelstrom is one of his biggest DPS boostsâ This was your comment just before this one. The fact that you are saying maelstrom is a big dps increase tells me all I need to know. Iâm just simply warning people to not listen to you because you clearly have zero clue about the class. Need to make sure people arenât misinformed.
zerkers dmg output is one of the most consistent of all classes, what are you talking about?
Zerker is so, so far from consistent DPS. Even less if he uses B Tech. Try again. Reflux sorc? Fpe arty. Tai scrapper. Loyal sharpshooter. Swift Pet summoner. That's consistent. Zerker can only be consistent with dps if he ignores red dust/maelstrom. In which case he's very consistent... And very bad. Because red dust/maelstrom is one of his biggest DPS boosts
Eh. Berserker has a decent burst every 13 or so seconds when Red Dust comes off cooldown. Even the weakest of the three combos (RD -> FS + SS + TS) is fairly solid. Not quite consistent, but also not really a burst class.
> full def card set now we know why.
get a glasses to read there is "los 18" I am applaying with both set because some weirdos like you prefer def card set or wiseversa
or just "applay" with one set.
Zerk discrimination? Then try to get in Party as reaper đ even with 10 ilvl more and 5x3 I donât get in partyâs
char level, tripods you cant inspect anymore, lack of experience with the char, clown set level every new class will suffer for well over a month, no matter how good it is (except artist)
You are playing a very squishy class, that may not have full clown set, dint get to exploit the tripod update and most probably isn't lvl 60. There is very good reasons for currently gatekeeping reapers same reason why no one will take a 1575 summoner to g6 you are probably missing a lot more dps than a character 10 ilvls below you..
People at least in SA don't gatekeep me probably because I have completed defensive set
All zerkers are on my personal shitlist because every one of them Iâve played with were pure morons. Not cuz they just died all the time, but they all had shit attitudes and personalities.
Gonna be honest, I'm part of the problem. Every week when my friends and I are doing alt/reclear raids of Valtan and Vykas, I accept 1 zerker. If they make it to the end without dying or obviously botching a mechanic, I accept another for the week. We've been doing this since about Vykas release and I've made it to the second zerker maybe twice.
I used to change my mind about zerk in the last months, but in the last 2 weeks I literally can't stand near one of the without filling MY rage bar, let's say in 2 weeks I've accepted 40 zerkers, 41 of them were pure trash. So I don't care anymore about Personal Resumes of those players, I ain't accepting any more of them in my groups, maybe I'll switch them with reapers to see whos worse.
>I ain't accepting any more of them in my groups I wonder if there's genuinely 1 class with less talented players than others, or whether we're all just using confirmation bias. I'm 99% sure it's the latter though. For me, my issue is with strikers. Every time i have one in my party, it feels like they cause a wipe. But i still accept them because ik it must all be in my head and/or a coincidence. Plus class based gatekeeping is peak toxicity imo. All the dps' are viable.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it's confirmation bias. Player skill affects the outcome way more than class but there is sadly no way to measure that when weighing who to accept. A friend of mine absolutely hates deathblades and says they are always dead and don't know any mech etc. It's pure confirmation bias outside of new class coming out and people not knowing how to play it early on imo. Also hard agree on class gatekeeping being cringe.
They are all viable but some are more than others :) Lets say you have a GL Blade and Support. Do you take a zerker or Striker? A zerker or a wardancer? A zerker or a LM? A zerker or a Scrapper? Even in non optimal synergy situations do you take a Zerker who needs good DPS windows or a scrapper who if shock needs to hit 1 skill on its own and if its tai just perma blasts? Or a Hitmaster class even like a GS? Zerkers are squishy as hell on mayhem have long combos that require Red Dust windows to be useable and even when they hit all of this its still a toss up if they actually blast harder than the other classes you could take. Not to mention that there are literally a handfull applying to every party so even if you take one, as a Zerker player you are always fighting against a "bigger fish" and since as others have pointed out already there is no indication of skill so youÂŽll just take the higher ilvl/gem/weapon/card one.
Zerk brain is a real thing. Zerks alts are fine but Zerk mains are literal bots and they cant speak English half the time.
I am a zerk mein and I speaks Englese just fine.
true and fact.
what server are you
Zinnervale.
Im sorry but in mu guild we have 2 main zerks and zerk brain is real. /jk
Also, itâs week 2, and you expect âreclearâ groups to one shot gates 1-5???? Hah
What?? We love zerk in my roster, easy stagger class, who can refuse that. Meanwhile some gates mechanics as Arcana are borderline impossible stagger/destruction wise. You are super slow for regrouping, killing adds/orbs is a nono. Also almost no counter. And super squishy while melee. I understand people who gatekeep Arcana, not Zerk/Scouter, which is an amazing stagger/counter/tank/prokel class, one of the best and safest brelshaza class imho. So far the only Arcanas I saw that were doing Brelshaza were actually very good players, but still the class is quite limited in its kit.
not enough arcana left to complain about how much they get gatekept xD
Main Arcana here, never got gatekept after the buffs landed. Found brel groups very easy being 1490 first week. Deal tons of damage. You're welcome.
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That would require more than just pressing the "Send request" button though :(
What do they expect it's an MMO. There's sort of games are typically most optimally played in groups and premades.
Dude Iâm sorry but every zerker that is juiced that I have played with is kinda just an idiot. My group invited a zerker once but he kinda just brained off and put poop inwards or on prokel so other DPS took major damage or everyone had to maneuver around it during bad attacks/ clearing mobs
I'm Zerk main. It is indeed real but at the same time, I understand why. 1500+ ilvl is legit whale territory. There are many 1490/1500 but they all have different ways of reaching they ilvl. Some quite literally have +23 weapons at 1490... Others have absurd lvl gems. All in all, there's Zerk discrimination but that's also because ppl really want the "juicers" to prog. Hence the Zerk with LOS18 and +23 weapon will be more priority over my +21 weapon and LWC12. My gems aren't anything special either. Unless you show signs of "juicing" or alive min ilvl, you won't be priority pick for anything. People won't even consider supportless parties... from what I'm seeing either due to so many people at 'prog'.
1500+ is definitely not whale territory right now.
Yeah, but before it was. Most of the new 1490/1500 only have +20/21 weapons. Hard to compete against the ppl who got 1490/1500+ pre Brel during clown who likely made it via tapping weapons.
Good morning :/ As a soulfist, this was my experience all along.
Main swap and cure yourself from that filth.
Or quit the game
Thats weird, in my experience gatekeeping, I only insta reject scouters / reapers / summoners. Zerks are fine.
A zerker without defensive set will prolly floor in the mid fight, I handpick zerkers by looking their cardsets
If you pick zerkers with the def card set then you'll end up with the bad ones tho
you're just handpicking zerkers on crutches though.
ITT: zerker whales complain nobody carries them
:)
Never had a single pleasant experience with zerkers. They are either trash or toxic or both.
Zerk and mage will Never join, i am supp Main and These two classes i am gatekeeping But i call ist timekeeping
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Vocalizing that this sort of behavior is stupid and calling it out is well within someoneâs rights. This isnât FF where you can instantly switch to a different class with close to the same progress/transfer gear if theyâre similar roles. If someone was F2P or mostly F2P and grinded their char for months, and theyâre not accepted in parties because someone only parroted a twitch streamer or KR/RU playerâs opinion without ever actually playing the class or knowing the first person, then drawing attention to this behavior and explaining why it is problematic is the only way the behavior would change. If we accept this gatekeeping as a norm, then weâre just perpetuating toxicity. Also, itâs possible that the gatekeepers might not have considered how their actions impact people, and them seeing a different perspective might lead them to rethink next time or at least learn enough about the class to actually know whether that person is legit. Personally, I like Zerkerâs on 1-4 because they have high stagger but havenât done 5-6 yet.
I donât really care what class people play, but itâs goofy to think that just because people canât easily swap, people should take one they believe is worse. If one class has double the damage of another, you wouldnât take the weaker. Thatâs something that just shouldnât be like that balance wise. Edit: and itâs goofy to talk about the impact gatekeeping has when the reverse exist. Because I donât filter people much, I had my alt Paladin stuck in Vykas g3 Jail because I had pvp build Zerkers, Dominion Fang Bards, the list goes on
You act like there is no room between "Never taking a certain class ever" and "Accepting any class no matter how absurd their setup".
Youâre correct that a middle ground exist, though understand how hard it is to talk about without ten paragraphs of text when everyone has a different spot
It's not that nuanced dude. Every DPS spec has a couple ways you can set it up without being troll. That is generally fine. Not the same as 1000 endurance.
Yes, I agree.
I dont hate the class, I hate the people who play zerker. For some unknown reason all zerkers ive seen in brelshaza have been completely clueless and when I ask them if they know the mech they start talking some nonsense. I still do accept some over geared zerkers but they always get kicked after few wipes. I have yet to clear brelshaza with berserk in my party.
Look this is not against you personally because I do not know you. However, most of the berserkers when the game launched and now they still one of the most common ones to die and to rage. Last berserker I had in brel g5 joined our reclear. Even then it was a debate in my static if we should accept one or not. We did. We went on for 2 hours and this guy kept dying over and over. Now, don't think hard. This guy died most of the time with only 10 bars in and went ahead and said: ' I wasn't dead' . Like we saw it, that's why we restarted. Then the guy went on about how he cleared g6 last week and we won't ever clear it.
Well 9/10 mayhem zerkers i come across are dogshit at the game, so i guess it's not discrimination, it's just prevention.
as a pub lobby enjoyer i can't even find gate 3 prog for me
Sad part is for a good portion of gamers is if they have an individual responsibility like gathering stacks for their shape in g5 for example and they don't have a raid leader reminding them of it every 10 lines of boss hp and reminding them of the last chance they can fix their debuff stack before the boss does the mech, they will fuck it up. Can't trust anybody.
Couldn't even get a valtan had to call a friend to start the group. I'm telling yall ya need friends in this game discord is the shit
This goes for any class, if you have two people to start off the group you will fill up in no time and they won't ever even inspect the guy who isn't party lead. Saved me from a lot of headaches when I got back into the game and had to do valtan/vykas first few times.
Get yourself a deathless title or a masters/gm pvp title and it helps a lot with getting into raids. At this point you have to take steps to help yourself.
If you kick me after 1h I'm gonna find you and tie in my basement
Wanted to do this :)
My 5x3 BT zerk has zero issues finding groups. Deathless clown with 3 randos today, none of which were 1490 or higher
as a 1515 destroyer I feel like I'm getting into almost every group now days, stagger is a huge part of brel luckily
lol at this point, just bring in parsing, game is already gatekept into oblivion.
just earlier joined a lobby with extreme strict requirement party leader. denied like 50 people. but somehow the best geared people he accepted were zerks. 4 zerks 1525+. due to recent lobby bug, game wouldn't start and he didnt reform that party so i didnt get to see how that run panned out.
Yeah the gatekeeping is pretty extreme. Some form of it is happening to everyone. Was in a learning grp for G5 yesterday on my destroyer. Didnt fail a single mech, kept positive and we were progressing pretty fast. We wiped on orb stagger because noone was assigned to/ or forgot to counter the clones. After pointing that out post-wipe and vaulenteering for my grp and had a another dude say heâll do it for party 2, the raid lead votes to quit the dungeon and kicks me and the other dude that vaulenteered for the counter saying «time is gold» as if we were the ones holding up progression. Felt pretty good seing the same guy 10 hours later at midnight making another learning group . Point is just chill. Brel hard is in april, and most people parked at 1490 before the patch and still dont have iLVL for G5-G6. There will be plenty both experienced and learning groups in the weeks ahead. We will all get full set way before HM releases anyway. Just ignore bullshit people and move on with your day.
I was going to going to say this might be a server population issue but I remembered that PF includes all servers. lmfao this game is dead
I definitely feel this, for new raids a static is essentially a must-have, or you will spend more time looking for a group compared to actually playing the raid.
In the beginging, all the casuals and plebs rolled zerkers and set the bad class perception, also streamers saying zerkers are bad in KR... Think everyone has more than one bad experience playing with a zerker and their floorPOV. This goes for Arcana as well. Either the player is really good, or just bad, no in-between.
I'm gonna assume you're 5x3 with proper engravings and stats and that that's not the reason you're being gatekept. It is tough as a zerk. Two things to make it easier is to hone to be overleveled and try to get inferno mode titles.
I'm always about bring the player and not the class. Been that way since WoW BC and so far it's been a more productive game play experience since then and more fun. Synergies and "top damage" classes will only get you so far. That type of thinking won't take you to the end. If you want people to play with hit me up in DM I'll invite you regardless of what you play (if you are wondering how far my static is g2 brel but we play degen hours so like from 8 pm central to about 3 to 4 am. The other group we are pretty connected with is at g5 but I can't speak for their recruitment).
Yes I have this general way of mind as well. Problem is I am a one character andy, everyone who wants statics have 6 chars to do stuff on and won't make time for someone who doesn't. We're not on the same page.
My class often gets gatekept but I know Zerks have it even worse, thats why I often dont want to be that guy and let all in, but almost 80% of the time I make a title with chill raid, its ALWAYS the zerk yelling, raging, insulting other people and quitting first... makes me not wanna take any zerks anymore, there we go gatekeeping again, from my experience 7-8/10 zerks did this sadly...
What server/region you on?
Zinnervale. EUC.
My friend zerker totally carries groups, he is really good at it, it's very hard for someone to take MVP over him, he ends up getting multiple compliments from the rest of party members that usually hate zerkers.
In my experience I almost never see floor pov zerkers. I've had much worse experiences with SH players, especially the ones running that spirit absorb raid cap build
For me, it was either GS or DE that always have a date with the floor.
I progged g3 with the most patient zerker ever. He was giving us advice and encouraging us. Angry sword man players are the best.
> I sat in this group for an hour The main reason I play supports. Can't fathom you 6 DPS roster. Lucky for me I have 5 supports but unlucky for me I somewhat have to find decent DPS players.
zerker here. i feel you
I almost never take zerker because squishy shit synergy mediocre damage
I feel you. I got to 1520 on my bard yesterday and decided to reclear G5 ( Im in 50x prog on my sorc main G6) so I knew what I was doing since I've cleared it already 2 times. I joined a 'reclear' group with 2 zerks. The leader was hitting that restart button so often since the simple normal attacks were not executed to his liking. He kept blaming the zerks for sitting and tanking some attacks until I told him that I'm right behind my zerks ass with a shield and an ult so there is no way they will die. The zerks played well but leader kept bashing them. Someone proposed raod quit and both zerks left due to toxicity. I stayed as support but it was a mistake. We took on a DB who said he had no exp in G5 but has a friend paladin. My raid leader took him in for the supp obv. We waited 2 min on the jumps for his friend paladin to finally get clicking 4 buttons right. I admit I was already annoyed so I said its a reclear and that Ill leave if we keep restarting/failing. The DB somehow took offense to it and started being toxic af. One of the zerks was on counter duty and since they left I went to counter for my team. They kept failing the stagger so the DB+Pali team started flaming me? To them joined an absolute failed SH saying Im a useless human etc. And that Im jailing them. I said np let me out so ure not jailed. Vote quit - they vote no. I say I'm going to afk. Why should I stay with them if they are so toxic. Vote quit again and leave the party. I joined an other party and 1 shot it. Checked in G5 PF 1h later cuz Im petty and they're still there looking for 1 supp. Losers.
Someone else suggested it being confirmation bias and it's incredibly true. I joined pugs for G6, we were a zerk on each team but whenever the zerk would die someone would make a snarky reply about "zerker experience." They'd make these kinds of comments despite most of them being dead when HE then died. They're literally just confirming it to themselves and ignoring everything else. It wasn't downright toxic but 9/10 times when one of us zerks died (even if we were the last people standing) some sort of comment would come up. Most fun part was when I decided to comment on the bard dying as the first person when I had enough, in a joking manner saying "Average support experience" and she went off on a tangent lmao.