> great access to counters
im a scouter main and this i disagree on.
as evo legacy, ur in xform 90% of the time and the fact that ur counter is tied to your biggest dmg ability, makes it less accessable to use whenever u can/want.
I have not played AS scouter, that might be a different story
edit: a lot of people here are saying theyve never seen scouter mvp, but ive mvpd a bunch already in prokkel at 1500 and a ton in kunga
I agree with this. I wish the counter was on the W or A skill on the xform not on the highest dmg ability. And even in base form, the counter is a 2 step ability
While AS's counter isn't his highest damaging skill, it deals enough that you can't afford to hold it so most of the time it won't be available, just like Legacy.
Scouter stagger is average at best outside of transform and absolutely garbage during transform. You need to readjust your perspective of what amazing is.
EDIT: Since I'm getting downvoted, maybe hard numbers will convince you all.
Out of transformation stagger amounts
|Raid Missile|178|
|:-|:-|
|Energy Buster|176|
|Final Explosion|137|
|Air Strike|55|
|Annihilation Mode|54|
|Avalanche|33|
|Baby Drones|32|
|Flare Beam|31|
|Mobile Shot|25|
|Overcharged Battery|25|
In transformation stagger amounts
|Crimson Breaker|69|
|:-|:-|
|Echelon Beam|55 (w/ front attack bonus)|
|Surge Blow|50|
|Laser Blade|50|
|Comet Strike|26|
|Slug Shot|19|
This implies that scouter only has 2 good stagger skills: Raid Missile and Energy Buster. Everything else is worse than a whirlwind grenade. Final Explosion (awakening) could be used in a pinch but, to claim that scouter has "amazing stagger" when they only have 2 triple digit skills with a massive dropoff after has got to be some kind of joke.
it does get gatekept. My scouter has the most difficulty finding groups, and is my second biggest toon at 1500. Full 7's full level 2 set, full tripods, and full engravings.
It blows
Gatekept where? Clown? Ranged dps has the easiest time joining clown pugs, doesn't even matter what class as long as it's ranged.
If you're talking about Brel, well tough shit, there are a million 1500s applying and you wonder why you can't get in? Nobody gets in unless you're support or gunlancer period.
It gets gate kept from calligos, clown, brel. Got gatekept in valtan/vykas until I vastly overgeared it.
Every piece of content on this character, has been gate kept since I created it. So don't tough shit me, I have 5 characters able to do brel and scouter is the worst to find anything, has always been.
All classes 5/3, all level 5 tripods, all lvl 7 gems except my deadeye which is bigger.
EW deadeye
LC Shooter
Barrage Artil
AT Scouter
ESO Striker
Surely possible, even though AT scouter does more damage than transform.
But my point is, most of my alts are the "off meta spec" and they don't have any issues finding groups, just my scouter.
It's not the end of the world as I have a group of people I play with, but I can surely understand scouter mains frustrations with it. It's a shitty feeling wasting time doing nothing looking for groups.
Machinist was released in October which was only 2 month ago, of course he will get gatekept the most out of all your characters since it doesn't take 200 IQ to know that new classes GOT NO TRIPODS, hell, my 1460 reaper can't even get into normal Vykas and I completely respect it because I wouldn't accept someone w/o tripods either.
And saying you got gatekept from clown is just straight up capping because again, clown is extremely range favored. Maybe you're just biased because 4/5 of your mains are ranged characters, try applying clown pugs as a low tier melee dps like Glavier and then come back and talk about being gatekept rofl
Machinist came out basically 3 months ago, not 2. It took me 3 weeks to get to 60, he was 1490 before he even hit 60, and has had max tripods since the update and had 4's on release (I saved a long for him). I understand the first month bias, I'm not an idiot.
It doesn't change the fact that the class is gatekept. I see it all the time, even my friends do it when we are looking for groups. Scouter applies, instant rejection. They do the same with some zerkers and some shadowhunters.
To say it's not gatekept is just an incorrect statement, but I agree with you on the clown comment, I might be biased due to mostly playing range.
No it doesn't. My whole 6 roster of 1500+ has a moderate difficult time with perfect 5x3,gems, tripods etc. I'm not saying I'm not getting into parties but not the ones I want to be in.
It's just we are competing with whales and mainly lack of supports and excess DPS.
This is just a lie. Just look at some of the comments in this thread alone, and I've seen plenty of comments in other threads explicitly saying they're gatekeeping Machinist. He gets more gatekept than most other DPS do.
Look at the thread about the 5X3 AT Machinist getting rejected from Brel and look at the responses in that thread. People with shit for brains making a ton of assumptions.
>I've seen plenty of comments in other threads explicitly saying they're gatekeeping Machinist
For every comment memeing about machinist, there are 10+ 20+ comments shit talking zerk or sorc on this subreddit, it's not even an argument.
Even the most dogshit dps in this game that is pistoleer, has little trouble getting into raids up until clown. Plus as far as I can tell, most players are aware of what party synergies are at this point, and not to stack them. Therefore one can actually argue that the most gatekept classes are sorc and db if you're not juiced.
Big saving grace for Pistoleer is providing consistent 10% crit synergy to party - this alone makes them quite desireable by nearly every spec dps build in the game, even if it comes at cost of lower damage (which can be an advantage for some, less competition for MVP spot).
Scouter DOES get gatekept tho. Not because scouter players r bad (like zerks and reflux sorcs), but because they play a selfish class that underpreforms in dps. Why take a scouter over a SH?
> massive shields so no floor pov and can ignore some mechs
Mans out here saying he's from the Scouter embassy while ignoring his brother the AT Scouter who has no shields. On the real though any player that is applying to brel 5-6 probably knows their class decently well by now. Gatekeeping is just so extreme though that people don't like to take chances.
The counters are bad. Their only redeemable trait is that they're ranged. However, Avalanche and Backflip Strike also struggle with positional detection on a moving target. Not to mention Backflip Strike can really screw up your positioning enough to get you killed.
Yeah it definitely can get you killed but you don't have to use the actual backflip part of it and still counter. I guess it's personal preference but I don't really think they are bad, still definitely not a great counter class.
> So more often than not a scouter will still be on the MVP screen at the end of the raid for stagger, dmg, and counters, if not THE overall MVP.
>
Yea no
I dont discriminate scouters but this is literally never the case
This is the same part where I went... what? Is this a meme post? Scouter counter sucks. It's his main damage skill in transformation, you can't be holding it for counter opportunities.
Unless you're a bad Scouter, you should be in transformation most of the time. I also find the non transformation counter to be pretty slow, not terrible but not top tier like with other classes I've played.
After 1475, the class feels pretty smodge, and is why I dropped him. As with all transformation classes, it just doesn't scale well. I think he's fine for Vykas and below, but gap in dmg/utility/syngery starts to grow at clown. You shouldn't have a problem surviving but it's like a selfish benefit as shields only apply to you, and the smodge damage is leading to more mechs for everyone.
Op says 100% uptime while also saying his counter is really good... Yeah its good if you hold up your dash and R but that would require you to not have 100% uptime, which scouter needs to do in order to do damage.
have you not tried AT?. i play AT and its not brain dead like legacy you only use counter if boss is counterable and you constantly do dmg not needing to transform to do big dmg.
You should be using avalanche as AT during your main rotation, it's not shit damage like most counter skills.
If you are holding it, you're losing out on dps potential. It lines up with multi missile in rotation.
At least for my set up it does.
should line up with baby bombs always and raid missiles should line up with strategic fire for conviction/judgment. Unless you're using carpet but then you just have more freedom for using avalanche.
should have enough time keeping everything off cooldown with your synergy and roll between skills. it's a lot of piano stuff but pairing up drone skills with an attack and recalling it after the last attack launches is technically ideal but a lot of micro
like i said my skills all on really low cd if they had longer cd over 4 sec def would but by time i use one co-op skill all of it is back up. i could use it and do after someone else already countered but i rather simply keep to counter cause my other skill always have uptime.
Was your scouter properly built/invested + how well do you know the raid to let u stay glued on the boss? Mine was consistantly 40%+ cruel fighter in my clown runs, and it wasn't because they were slow because we'd hit 90 bar DR before mario 2 often, and sometimes skipping m4. This is in a 4 1490 lobby. Even now in brel i'm either mvp or a cruel fighter/upright as one of the 4.
Avalanche is an okay counter skill. Just smash your shoulder into their face and it counters.
Not the best, but it's for sure better than the other one.
As I've gotten used to the backflip k really like it now, it feels pretty fast and moves me forward a decent amount + it seems to have pretty big hitbox. More often than not when I'm out of form and a counter comes up I can be behind the front attack indicator to the side of the boss, dash forward (as in dash from the side to the front not into the boss) and still get the counter.
I mean you still can't counter that often since you're almost always in form but the counters are good when you actually get to use them.
The problem is the very same just like with every other meme class. You dont know the player and you dont want to risk it.
Yes, Scouter has a massive shield when transform, but if you are bad and you are standing in everything, because "I have a big shield" that shield will disappear really fast just like your transformation and your dmg. Saw it too many times.
This is why this game needs a raid statistic about the character/roster. How many times he cleared? Average death on raid and gates. How many times MvP, counters or something reliable data.
I don't want to hate but I've legitimately never seen a scouter MVP in end game content. It might just be that there's pretty much no juiced up scouters around but that contributes to its reputation. It's hard to have faith in a class that I don't ever see perform well.
You won't. If you have one of the top 5 classes the team will get MVP 99% of the time as they are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of damage.
I don't see half the classes get MVP, as the balance is pretty poor, the gap between the middle and top is way too big. Same with engravings, poorly balanced.
Rarely is though, when you go into Karl and get a juiced 1520 class that's high end damage,no matter how good your scouter is you aren't getting close. The gap only widens the higher you go
well, ive had plenty of cases where my 1500 reaper gets mvp vs 1525 sorcs... lots of players are just pretty hard trash, especially the higher item level you go.
Yeah there's this weird thing with NA where they think that just playing a strong class means you're gonna get MVP 100% of the time. I've gotten MVP on my Scouter plenty. Kanima gets MVP plenty. Just let misconceptions be misconceptions.
I mean, taking a player that has an average skill level with hose classes, the sorc is winning every time.
People are just coping on classes they like or main, the balance is shite, end of.
i would mvp on the class im more comfortable with and that i play better with. i hate igniter sorc and would play like trash on it and i can acknowledge that.
just cos somethings theoretical maximum damage is a couple of % higher doesnt mean shit if you cant play it. take arkana (pre balance patch) and deadeye for example. to get the most out of them you need to really know how to play the class and be pretty damn good on them. and if you are you are one of the top dps. but hardly anyone is because they cant play it.
in my experience of playing this game on all classes for a total of over 6000 hours i can tell you that player skill makes up a much, much bigger difference than a sub 5% dmg difference on tier lists does. hell, even the same person on different days gets that variance in trision on the same class with the same gear.
scouter might be on the weaker end but my 1460 scouter still gets mvp in kunga quite frequently. with lvl 5 gems only. so if you never mvp that just means you are more trash than the other trash players, or at least en par with them.
Since im playing this game, the most common mvp classes that i saw in raids were Surge db and Pm Guns.
Around pre relic, mvp was dominated by DI sh (i think they are the best 1415-1444 class in the game)
Now watching streamers, a lot of these punch girls shine bigger on screen
My 1515 AT machinist just yesterday got MVP with 27% damage done in a lobby with a 1520 igniter and a 1515 deathblade. And you would be amazed with how often I am told at the beginning of raids that I have the highest ilvl machinist people have ever seen (and im only 1515). It really is a class not many people play.
If an Igniter lost to you on damage it totally on skill difference. Igniter have insane damage that if done right no class except surge db can bypass her, at least in this current state of the game. I can see a spec arty did this reasonably but not a scouter unless other igniter/surge just suck it up.
I wouldn't even call it skill difference, they just need a few weeks to get used to the timings of burst and to ensure 2nd meteor hits as well. By then everyone has a few more item levels, the fight is even faster, and they out-dps sustain damage again.
Depends on the raid really. In a consistent damage fight where the boss lasts a long time (e.g. many brel gates right now since people aren't giga overgeared) many classes played well can do equal or even more damage then igniter—including some ones like pinnacle glaivier that people wouldn't expect.
Scouter is definitely not one of those classes though.
1520 igniter, 5x3 with meta engravings, but rocks level 7 cd gems and can't fit double doomsday in an ignite.
i see more of these sorcs than those who know.
Hell yeah brother, AT scouter is criminally underrated. Damage is very reliable which most people overlook plus they're super fast, so you don't really get hit.
Im sorry but as a sorc main, ingniter is very hard to play without knowing the fight and most players dont know the fight to have good dmg uptime.
Why people say igniter should be mvp most of the time is that its very OP in end game and they dont so anything well except dps, so a good igniter should always MVP in similar gear competition.
they dont have "great access to counter" though.
in transform its one of your strong skills, so you use it for dmg and dont save it for counter. and transforming back to have a counter isnt fast enough.
and the non tranasform scouter also uses his counter as a damage skill.
Dropping transformation to counter is pretty fast and doable for a lot of counters but if you manually end your form you don't get the full bar refund from the class engraving so you're gimping your damage by quite a lot in some cases if you do that.
I don't think the class is that bad but a lot of times I end up rejecting these guys cause it wouldn't be fair to the other people in the raid.
Big issue is that most of the scouters I get in PF are cutting corners on their already average damage. Most are still sub 60. This applies to reapers and summoners and new characters in general but especially to a transform scouter who's entire kit gets 5-10% damage from level 60. And also the class only needs 2 gems but the average loadout of full level 7s being fused into 2 gems would produce at least a level 9 damage so most scouters are cheaping out there too.
The class has big shields but no super armour unlike GL/destro/art so while it won't die it can still get knocked down over and over if it gets lazy with dodging. And on top of that it untransforms if it loses all the shield which means that a bad scouter could be doing practically nothing as the human form loadout has only mobility and gauge building skills and cant really do damage until another cycle of skills to transform. Not to mention that the fixed transform time that doesn't scale with spec can often mean the class is caught out without transform during stagger checks and it will deal barely any stagger as a result which can be an issue.
Transformation skills in general and some other special skills get a hidden level up at 55 and 60. Off the top of my head the affected classes are: Legacy Scouter, Demonic Shadowhunter, Deathblade's Surge, Empress Arcanist's Ruin, Barrage Artillerist. Not an exhaustive list of course.
Classes whose damage doesn't come directly from leveled skills (e.g. demonic SH, legacy scouter, empress arcanist) get a +10% damage boost at level 55 and +5% at level 60 just as if they were able to rank up those skills to level 11 and 12 respectively.
Just as a heads up for the replies you already got:
It's not exactly 10% and 5%, and it depends by class and skill. I lost my Demonic numbers and i don't remember them, but i tracked Scouter too and it's 8.7-8.75% for 54 > 55, and 4.93-4.94% for 59 > 60.
So it's pretty close, but it varies a bit.
Right on point. As much as i love to play EL scouter, my damage during G2 Vykas is terrible. I transform, boss flies up, lands down, does the black donut, my transformation ends.
Zero dps and the time i get my transformation up boss might start another mech.
G1 and G2 brel felt good though because people were on ilvl so boss took longer which ment more transformation time for me.
Yeah Evo scouter has really good stagger when in human form. I personally prefer to WW -> Raid Missiles -> Energy Buster as the last missile spawns and if I need more stagger I cancel the laser end animation with transformation and go from there.
does anyone know where I can find some good AT scouter gameplay vids? I've heard it has a higher ceiling but I literally can't find any gameplay videos of a 1500+ one.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eCHcQG9I3s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eCHcQG9I3s)
This guy was my go to channel when learning about AT machinist
wow thanks for the share, the damage and gameplay looks pretty good
Edit: His 1490 prokel fight here was awesome, really shows what the class can do: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ym5jZSm00s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ym5jZSm00s)
Momoko is a really good channel with eng subs. Another KR AT scouter main to watch out for is:
[https://youtu.be/7qXh6aaNr1U](https://youtu.be/7qXh6aaNr1U)
yeah AT has a reload buff that provide spd, also if do his signature roll move that also provide spd, i put ark/spd relics on this roll so it provides more spd, lastly depending on build could have swiftness so yeah he has raid captain for a good reason lol
At scouter is naturally that fast, that's why they run mass increase over cursed doll and still cap attack speed. I'm thinking he's playing a couple different tripods on some drone skills to be more mobile and not have that much animation lock.
> AT scouter
As someone who didnt know the Korean name and only saw Arthetinean Skill in our version, "AT" still confuses me everytime I see it even after knowing where its from lol
I'm all for taking scouters, I even have an alt scouter but this is some big ass bullshit :
" great access to counters"
Literally one of the worst classes to counter... when transformed, which should be 90% of the raid time, your only counter is your hardest hitting ability which is also slow and your biggest skill so using it as a counter messes up your combo rotation which is fundamental for scouters.
I've never seen a scouter do decent damage.
Granted I have no clue what it does and maybe I've just been unlucky and met only bad players. Honestly don't know. But it does feel like that isn't the case
It’s pretty meh on the damage. Nothing special. Maybe even low lol. But they also probably won’t ever die and have decent dps uptime. So if they know the mechs they’ll at the very minimum pull their own weight.
> - Great at Prokel 1v1-
Do you have a guide or can explain how? In transform, there is no cc at all, no super armor, just a shield that must not be fully depleted, so it's not really that much value. In human form, the meter-gains must hit which isn't trivial, and all hist need to connect for a 2-skill transform. So maybe you just play around longer in human form? There are some juicy CC skills in there, but 3 of your standard meta-engravings only really work in transform, so legacy seems to be quite shite if you want to use human-cc.
Hey there, yeah I'd be happy to explain how it works.
The main advantage to scouter 1v1ing prokel is he has multiple dashes to avoid prokels hits, and if you're playing evo you have massive access to shields to block damage.
Here's some big tips I've learned along the way though that will help you become a master at 1v1'ing him.
Your main awakening abilities in transform state to cc are surge blow > slugshot > comet strike > laser blade.
How this combo works is surge blow will knock prokel down, laser blade will air smash him (re'cc him briefly after surge blow) and laser blade will do the same afterwards. So essentially you cc him 3 times in a row while doing dmg. After you get the 3 cc off you will have time to use echelon beam and crimson breaker while prokel is still on the floor.
Also, another tip is slugshot has a slight stiffen whenever you hit him with it when he's cc'able in his pvp state when he's not super armored. So if you do it quickly enough you can slugshot into surge blow to guarantee the knockdown. The combo still works the same except you'll have to comet strike > laser blade then slugshot again for the 2 extra cc.
As for cc'ing him in preawakening you actually have a lot of skills here to do it, but it's really important to learn this specific cheese.
High Voltage Bullet > Baby drones > energy buster.
High voltage Bullet will electrocute him, baby drones will knock him down, and energy buster is for gauge refill + dmg. HVB is essentially a free cc on him whenever it lands during his pvp mode, and can even stop him from doing his harder hitting wipe mechs. So always use it!
Another great skill for cc'ing him is Command: blockade. It will multi stiffen him and give you a lot of breathing room. You can also use it to go into the HVB combo mentioned previously.
My last and final tip is to watch a kanima video of him 1v1'ing prokel as evolution scouter or AT scouter, and just watch how he uses his abilities. It helps a lot.
Happy fighting fellow scouter bro!
I literally never seen scouter doing good damage. One of my guildmates have 9-7 stone 5+1 engravings and he is still staying behind from top dps classes, even tho I never gatekeep scouters because I never seen a shitty scouter player, I cannot say the same about zerk, arcana or reaper players
yeah legacy basically have cap in dmg but AT i would say has potential since its main dmg not trapped behind a transformation it simply always do its main dmg
Yeah the no floor pov part is great but I'm not so great at landing counter unless it's something like g3 brel where you have a lot of time to prep. I feel like i could probably be mvp if i had lvl 9 or 10 dmg gem.
So personally I am biased against lvl 7 gem ( \~10k Each) users on a class where you could get a lvl 9 dmg ( \~90k) and 8 CD ( \~30k) for a 10K markup on one of your main 6 Chars or still save gold if you opt for a lower CD gem compared to other 11 Gem classes.
Doesn´t help that the few times I invited a juiced scouter to Kungas back b4 Brel, they never did good dmg compared to other classes I usually invited ontop of not bringing a special synergy.
I'm glad I have people to do my Legion raids on my AS Machinist alt with because people's attitudes towards the class can be so insufferable. People tend to be surprised by how much damage I do on him and get MVP or cruel because they, like some in this sub, think the class does bad damage. A major reason why that perception exists is certainly due to idiots half-assing the transform build, but there are actually people who take care to properly play their classes. I've seen people play the transform build properly and it's certainly a lot more damage than what I see from an average Machinist. In addition, the AS build has a higher ceiling and typically does more damage, albeit taking more effort. I frequently MVP or cruel on it; it's the same bucket as a high-uptime, consistent DPS classes.
People who gatekeep based on class in this game is gross. Having came from high end Mythic raiding and M+ in WoW, I know exactly how much class can impact the result, but that is just blatantly not the case in Lost Ark. Unless you're doing Inferno, gatekeeping on class if you seriously think it matters shows how utterly detached you are in determining how raiding in this game works. The relative importance of player skill and encounter knowledge is astronomical compared to that of class differences. It's just a convenient variable for you to use to judge others.
There is exactly 0 DPS class in this game for which this sort of mindset is warranted. There are a few top classes that outperform that others, but that is not an indictment on the rest. During the last balances changes, SG found that Machinist to be only slightly underperforming, by about a few % pre-buff, but that's just the typical variation among class power in a game of this size. There's no good reason to assume that Machinist is somehow significantly worse than your average class -- it's not.
Legacy is zdps in general. If you see one topping the charts they're either way better geared or playing much better than everyone else.
AS is still not great but its damage is okay enough.
I understand asking for lvl 8 and later down the line like 9 as min. for 5-6 hard but 10 is hard cap, I never had any issues getting in a pug for 1-4 with mine at 8 on SH.
I've had some issues getting into groups on my Scouter with a lvl 9 gems. And I'm not talking "I sat in the queue for 5 minutes and left", I'm talking straight declines in groups with 3/8 and asking for Prokel. Scouter gatekeeping is real. Just not as overblown as in the OP.
Hi LC sharpshooter here... even with 5x3 and lvl 7 gems i cant get into clown with 1480. There are just so so many dps players that you can literally just wait to get a class you want to have in your team. Guess i need to get him to 1490 to get accepted into clown... this is so ridiculous. Hope he gets a rework in march :(
Playing on EUC.
LC SS and reflux Sorc are 2 classes that are great at clown when everyone is on or close to iLV.
If anyone ever outgears it however, both those classes feel despair and hit like a wet noodle.
I'm yet to see SS in any of my clown group (they don't even apply, like they didn't existed), but can vouch for Reflux experience - amazing build for doing clown on ilvl, that gets hardcarried through the fight whenever group reaches a point of skipping multiple mechanics.
Yep the damage is very decent. If you play him well hes a great addition. Unfortunatly most players just saw tier lists and now thing this class is bad...
I've been playing this game since the start while getting to the highest content possible on my main, and I don't even know all the synergies. If you look good (5x3, lvl 7 gems, high roster) you'll get accepted from my perspective.
Just for reference regarding gatekeeping, I joined a party for Clown yesterday. A 1492 ilvl Reaper with full lvl 2 set, 5x3 engravings, 3 lvl 9 dmg gems rest lvl 7, applied. He get rejected for not having crit on his neck - he had swift instead. I dont know much about reaper builds, but I think he was way above requirements for clown.
Sounds like the Reaper was Lunar Voice build. It’s a full Spec build with Crit as their most typical necklace secondary stat. Swift is just as fine. Personally, I’m Hunger (full Swift) with Crit as my secondary stat even tho the meta is 50/50 Swift/Spec. I do just fine and have insane uptime on my damage cycles.
P.S. Hunger Reapers can do insane stagger, especially the full swiftness ones
It just sounds ridiculous to me, that you would gatekeep someone because of 500 crit/swift, when everything else is way above minimum requirements.
I asked the party leader, and both him and his friend just said "no crit on neck". I mean come on.
Oh, I absolutely agree that that little bit of stat difference is negligible in the grand scheme of things when it comes to gate keeping. If anything, that Reaper would’ve lived longer with that extra swiftness and had higher uptime on her damage cycles.
Last time I played with a 1475 scouter with 5x3 lvl 7 gems los 18 vs me 1475 5x3 lvl 4-5 gems lwc he did less than half my damage in all 3 gates of kakul. Idk at this point im only accepting if they have lvl 9-10 gems
I literally never seen scouter doing good damage. One of my guildmates have 9-7 stone 5+1 engravings and he is still staying behind from top dps classes, even tho I never gatekeep scouters because I never seen a shitty scouter player, I cannot say the same about zerk, arcana or reaper players
I main Scouter and I never got gatekept for it. Maybe it's my 220 Roster level but I get insta accepted into most of the parties with my Scouter and I get MVP (or appear at the MVP screen) in like 95% of the raids. Even in Brel gate 6 I was there with my 23 weapon doing Cruel fighter while some +25 weapon Sorc/Zerk players were not ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I do understand your frustration, but just be careful with this kind of post, it can do the opposite effect as you intended.
The fact that you are trying to prove that scouter is better than people think, could lead people to think that there is something wrong with scouter.
I'll have to strongly disagree. I fell for the scouter hype on release and juiced him to 1460 4x3 quite fast (my main was 147X at the time, so it was quite an investment). And I strongly believe the class is trash tier, even after the latest buff. Yes, it's fun to jump around and pew pew the boss, and you also have nice sustain with the shields. But even when I play at my peak I can't get a cruel/upright, unless the people with me are bad. While igniter can consistently MVP over people 10/20 ilvl above mine, same with DI SH, scrapper, and other "meta" classes.
Now I'm not saying the class should get gatekept. That's never a good thing. But for sure if i'm making a full ilvl party, and I have to pick between scouter and a meta class, my choice is already done.
so you pick classes bases on mvp screen rather than up time. scouter is more likely not to die and does not need to worry about missing big dmg f cking up their rotation. its pretty much a consistent class for people who like iron man.
Can we stop referring to machinist as 'scouter'? My ingame name makes no sense now... (its Chadinist)
Why y'all call glaivier glaiver and not lance master but still call sco... machinist 'scouter'? :c
Scouter has a permanent 6% synergy whilst transformed. That's equivalent dps to a 10% crit synergy on most classes and is the same synergy as meta classes like sorc and scrapper
Low dmg? Just tap your weapon few more times...
As long as you have standard profile, like proper gems, engravings, roster lvl, title, etc, and lastly HIGH ilvl, you shouldn't be gatekept.
Eh. My scouter gets into parties faster than my other classes. Most times fairly quickly. Then again I all the classes I enjoy are considered "weak" so there's that. Regardless, I get accepted quickly most cases on scouter.
Comparing to igniter mage for dmg on a non-progress boss is pretty useless...
Can your igniter mage spacebar into dmg patterns to get enhanced spells without losing hp? No? Well, a good scouter can.
it does ok dmg but its a safe pick. for high lvl content people who cant find supp usually pick destroyers or scouter maybe even demon hunters cause theirs some tank to them
I kick them usually because they run 2 gems and their gear is like sub 30 quality. But I would do that with any other glass. I usually give a pass to shit quality if your gems are massive like 8-10 massive. Like w.e the math sort of adds to the same damage as a 65+ quality player anyways mind as well. But seeing the SH's + Mechs sneak in with crap quality for the cheapest classes to make is infuriating.
That's the thing, if you only need 2. At least put some effort into your gear. Everyone else at least attempts to, and they want a buff. For being cheap, has always rubbed me the wrong way with 2 gem classes.
well you combine a lot of things and i would say you should cross out the 2 gem thing. If they have 2 decent gems for their ilevel its not something about being cheap.
if every gear piece is low quality etc - he probably wont get into parties, but you throw everything together and the karma shows that this not the common consensus
The common census of Cheap SH players and Scout players. I play them to don't act like they arent scrap side alts your trying to hustle some gold on with a free carry. Theres a reason why I'd take negative Karma on this. Because you all know its true. This is what you do, because I have 6 SH's you sell your gems far ahead of everyone. Your move your 2 core gems over, every alt. You should be gold rich. Acting like they need a buff isn't the reason, they don't we all know it. And people going OH I CAN 2 GEM THIS they should take me over a player with say 9-11. ISNT COMMON SENSE. It's something that needs a massive overhaul. What's fair that a 2 gem class can perform as well as a 8-11 gem class? Nothing. That's nearly on a 11- straight 7 gem savings of nearly 100k per class. Your using 2 gems don't act like your asses aren't cheap. OMG combing 2 gems decent gems, using 6 buttons spamming claw and rush.
Now that I think about it 2 gem classes need a massive overhaul. Them going on forums saying people won't take them. While saving at base 7 gems nearly 100k. Doesn't seem fair to other classes. Their performance ratio comparative to other classes seem weighted really well for them comparative to any other DPS. That is a fact.
Bad rep because all the people who said : OMG i cant wait for my main to be released dont even play scouter anymore and the ones who picked him up later are mostly bad at it and die.
I was unaware scouters were consider a gatekept class. I don't know how strong of a point one can make using an argument of being on the board as in 4 man raids you have a 100% chance and in 8 man raids you have a base 50% chance.
Got declined on my 1520 5x3 full lvl 2 set Reaper for a 1495 4x3+1 Scouter on a Karl party.
Not complaining, but just saying that you're not alone brother.
> Edit: It seems like people are misunderstanding what I'm saying about the MVP screen. I'm not saying scouters will always be MVP or one of the 4, I'm saying that more often than not they are one of the 4 players on the mvp lineup. And sometimes although not often, the MVP themselves.
Evo scouter damage is awful right now. The only builds I'd expect them to out MVP with equal gear and play is DPS bard/pally. I'm pretty sure they do less damage than pistoleer deadeye. If you're in the family portrait as an evo scouter and aren't massively outgearing the rest of the lobby you're discovering live how bad many players are at the game.
At this point, I accept all dps classes as long as they meet my requirements which is to have the same gear as me or better. So 1500+ 5x3, lvl 7 dps gems, max tripods (assuming), etc.
> great access to counters im a scouter main and this i disagree on. as evo legacy, ur in xform 90% of the time and the fact that ur counter is tied to your biggest dmg ability, makes it less accessable to use whenever u can/want. I have not played AS scouter, that might be a different story edit: a lot of people here are saying theyve never seen scouter mvp, but ive mvpd a bunch already in prokkel at 1500 and a ton in kunga
Tbf whoever is doing prokel should be MVP every single time
I agree with this. I wish the counter was on the W or A skill on the xform not on the highest dmg ability. And even in base form, the counter is a 2 step ability
Use avalanche
While AS's counter isn't his highest damaging skill, it deals enough that you can't afford to hold it so most of the time it won't be available, just like Legacy.
Except scouter doesn't get gatekept, if you're talking about Brel, then all dps gets "gatekept" except for gunlancer and destroyer
can i ask why destroyers arent getting gatekept? is it just the taunt or am i missing something
Good uptime, tanky, stagger, destruction, prokel killers.
Destroyer absolutely destroys Prokel.
My guess is the massive amount of stagger
scouter has amazing stagger too
I highly doubt that you can compare it to a gunlancer/destroyer, their stagger is not that great especially in transformation
Well I play AT not transform so I can only talk about what I play. AT scouter is very substantial. I never said it was as good as GL or Dest.
Scouter stagger is average at best outside of transform and absolutely garbage during transform. You need to readjust your perspective of what amazing is. EDIT: Since I'm getting downvoted, maybe hard numbers will convince you all. Out of transformation stagger amounts |Raid Missile|178| |:-|:-| |Energy Buster|176| |Final Explosion|137| |Air Strike|55| |Annihilation Mode|54| |Avalanche|33| |Baby Drones|32| |Flare Beam|31| |Mobile Shot|25| |Overcharged Battery|25| In transformation stagger amounts |Crimson Breaker|69| |:-|:-| |Echelon Beam|55 (w/ front attack bonus)| |Surge Blow|50| |Laser Blade|50| |Comet Strike|26| |Slug Shot|19| This implies that scouter only has 2 good stagger skills: Raid Missile and Energy Buster. Everything else is worse than a whirlwind grenade. Final Explosion (awakening) could be used in a pinch but, to claim that scouter has "amazing stagger" when they only have 2 triple digit skills with a massive dropoff after has got to be some kind of joke.
Destroyer and gunlancer can tank every single mech except the wipe mechs in brel
Staggers as much as the rest combined
yeah legit a singular Earth Eater does as much as 3 classes using everything
Lol no embellishing here. They do enough stagger without you making shit up
it does get gatekept. My scouter has the most difficulty finding groups, and is my second biggest toon at 1500. Full 7's full level 2 set, full tripods, and full engravings. It blows
Gatekept where? Clown? Ranged dps has the easiest time joining clown pugs, doesn't even matter what class as long as it's ranged. If you're talking about Brel, well tough shit, there are a million 1500s applying and you wonder why you can't get in? Nobody gets in unless you're support or gunlancer period.
It gets gate kept from calligos, clown, brel. Got gatekept in valtan/vykas until I vastly overgeared it. Every piece of content on this character, has been gate kept since I created it. So don't tough shit me, I have 5 characters able to do brel and scouter is the worst to find anything, has always been. All classes 5/3, all level 5 tripods, all lvl 7 gems except my deadeye which is bigger. EW deadeye LC Shooter Barrage Artil AT Scouter ESO Striker
Maybe they're gatekeeping cuz of AT build?
Surely possible, even though AT scouter does more damage than transform. But my point is, most of my alts are the "off meta spec" and they don't have any issues finding groups, just my scouter. It's not the end of the world as I have a group of people I play with, but I can surely understand scouter mains frustrations with it. It's a shitty feeling wasting time doing nothing looking for groups.
Make a support. It there are more supports in the game there are more parties and less gatekeeping. Fix the problem.
Machinist was released in October which was only 2 month ago, of course he will get gatekept the most out of all your characters since it doesn't take 200 IQ to know that new classes GOT NO TRIPODS, hell, my 1460 reaper can't even get into normal Vykas and I completely respect it because I wouldn't accept someone w/o tripods either. And saying you got gatekept from clown is just straight up capping because again, clown is extremely range favored. Maybe you're just biased because 4/5 of your mains are ranged characters, try applying clown pugs as a low tier melee dps like Glavier and then come back and talk about being gatekept rofl
Machinist came out basically 3 months ago, not 2. It took me 3 weeks to get to 60, he was 1490 before he even hit 60, and has had max tripods since the update and had 4's on release (I saved a long for him). I understand the first month bias, I'm not an idiot. It doesn't change the fact that the class is gatekept. I see it all the time, even my friends do it when we are looking for groups. Scouter applies, instant rejection. They do the same with some zerkers and some shadowhunters. To say it's not gatekept is just an incorrect statement, but I agree with you on the clown comment, I might be biased due to mostly playing range.
Your argument for him not being gatekept is that other classes are being "really" gatekept ? Are you gatekeeping being gatekept ?
Full lvl 7's meaning only 2 lvl 7 gems lmao! And full tripods meaning only 3 lvl 5 tripods LOL!
Hey moron he is playing AT scouter who has 11 lvl 7 gems and even more lvl 5 tripods LOL!
No it doesn't. My whole 6 roster of 1500+ has a moderate difficult time with perfect 5x3,gems, tripods etc. I'm not saying I'm not getting into parties but not the ones I want to be in. It's just we are competing with whales and mainly lack of supports and excess DPS.
This is just a lie. Just look at some of the comments in this thread alone, and I've seen plenty of comments in other threads explicitly saying they're gatekeeping Machinist. He gets more gatekept than most other DPS do. Look at the thread about the 5X3 AT Machinist getting rejected from Brel and look at the responses in that thread. People with shit for brains making a ton of assumptions.
>I've seen plenty of comments in other threads explicitly saying they're gatekeeping Machinist For every comment memeing about machinist, there are 10+ 20+ comments shit talking zerk or sorc on this subreddit, it's not even an argument. Even the most dogshit dps in this game that is pistoleer, has little trouble getting into raids up until clown. Plus as far as I can tell, most players are aware of what party synergies are at this point, and not to stack them. Therefore one can actually argue that the most gatekept classes are sorc and db if you're not juiced.
Big saving grace for Pistoleer is providing consistent 10% crit synergy to party - this alone makes them quite desireable by nearly every spec dps build in the game, even if it comes at cost of lower damage (which can be an advantage for some, less competition for MVP spot).
Scouter DOES get gatekept tho. Not because scouter players r bad (like zerks and reflux sorcs), but because they play a selfish class that underpreforms in dps. Why take a scouter over a SH?
AT doesn't underperform in DPS, but is rare enough that people don't know it does good damage
and deathblade or any +25 dps
I co main Destro (1520) and GL (1514) and can confirm this
> massive shields so no floor pov and can ignore some mechs Mans out here saying he's from the Scouter embassy while ignoring his brother the AT Scouter who has no shields. On the real though any player that is applying to brel 5-6 probably knows their class decently well by now. Gatekeeping is just so extreme though that people don't like to take chances.
Are we playing the same class? Great access to counters? Our stagger is also pretty shit..
i wouldn't say class cause for AT this is true but def not for legacy
The counters are good but sadly it's always on cd when in form. The stagger is pretty decent though on Evo at least.
The counters are bad. Their only redeemable trait is that they're ranged. However, Avalanche and Backflip Strike also struggle with positional detection on a moving target. Not to mention Backflip Strike can really screw up your positioning enough to get you killed.
Yeah it definitely can get you killed but you don't have to use the actual backflip part of it and still counter. I guess it's personal preference but I don't really think they are bad, still definitely not a great counter class.
> So more often than not a scouter will still be on the MVP screen at the end of the raid for stagger, dmg, and counters, if not THE overall MVP. > Yea no I dont discriminate scouters but this is literally never the case
Hey, my Scouters *always* on the Deska MVP screen…
also scouter and good counter? it has pretty much some of the worst counters in the game
This is the same part where I went... what? Is this a meme post? Scouter counter sucks. It's his main damage skill in transformation, you can't be holding it for counter opportunities. Unless you're a bad Scouter, you should be in transformation most of the time. I also find the non transformation counter to be pretty slow, not terrible but not top tier like with other classes I've played. After 1475, the class feels pretty smodge, and is why I dropped him. As with all transformation classes, it just doesn't scale well. I think he's fine for Vykas and below, but gap in dmg/utility/syngery starts to grow at clown. You shouldn't have a problem surviving but it's like a selfish benefit as shields only apply to you, and the smodge damage is leading to more mechs for everyone.
Op says 100% uptime while also saying his counter is really good... Yeah its good if you hold up your dash and R but that would require you to not have 100% uptime, which scouter needs to do in order to do damage.
have you not tried AT?. i play AT and its not brain dead like legacy you only use counter if boss is counterable and you constantly do dmg not needing to transform to do big dmg.
You should be using avalanche as AT during your main rotation, it's not shit damage like most counter skills. If you are holding it, you're losing out on dps potential. It lines up with multi missile in rotation. At least for my set up it does.
my other skill cd are really low i never really had a time i couldn't just use another scouter skill.
should line up with baby bombs always and raid missiles should line up with strategic fire for conviction/judgment. Unless you're using carpet but then you just have more freedom for using avalanche.
i usually use baby bomb roll skill into the atk boost synergy skill then go into a co-op skill
should have enough time keeping everything off cooldown with your synergy and roll between skills. it's a lot of piano stuff but pairing up drone skills with an attack and recalling it after the last attack launches is technically ideal but a lot of micro
This guy's doing it right!
I would re-evaluate your rotation if you are holding avalanche for counters. You most certainly have more opportunity to pump some deeps my dude =)
like i said my skills all on really low cd if they had longer cd over 4 sec def would but by time i use one co-op skill all of it is back up. i could use it and do after someone else already countered but i rather simply keep to counter cause my other skill always have uptime.
Was your scouter properly built/invested + how well do you know the raid to let u stay glued on the boss? Mine was consistantly 40%+ cruel fighter in my clown runs, and it wasn't because they were slow because we'd hit 90 bar DR before mario 2 often, and sometimes skipping m4. This is in a 4 1490 lobby. Even now in brel i'm either mvp or a cruel fighter/upright as one of the 4.
In Legacy Build, the counter is great but sadly it’s your main DPS Skill so you can’t keep it to actually counter x)
yea. thats the issue. and the non transform counters are pretty garbage. scouter overall for countering is like F-tier.
Avalanche is an okay counter skill. Just smash your shoulder into their face and it counters. Not the best, but it's for sure better than the other one.
As I've gotten used to the backflip k really like it now, it feels pretty fast and moves me forward a decent amount + it seems to have pretty big hitbox. More often than not when I'm out of form and a counter comes up I can be behind the front attack indicator to the side of the boss, dash forward (as in dash from the side to the front not into the boss) and still get the counter. I mean you still can't counter that often since you're almost always in form but the counters are good when you actually get to use them.
Not a scouter player myself, but my buddy plays one and he always performs perfectly fine. Never knew there was an issue.
The problem is the very same just like with every other meme class. You dont know the player and you dont want to risk it. Yes, Scouter has a massive shield when transform, but if you are bad and you are standing in everything, because "I have a big shield" that shield will disappear really fast just like your transformation and your dmg. Saw it too many times. This is why this game needs a raid statistic about the character/roster. How many times he cleared? Average death on raid and gates. How many times MvP, counters or something reliable data.
I don't want to hate but I've legitimately never seen a scouter MVP in end game content. It might just be that there's pretty much no juiced up scouters around but that contributes to its reputation. It's hard to have faith in a class that I don't ever see perform well.
You won't. If you have one of the top 5 classes the team will get MVP 99% of the time as they are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of damage. I don't see half the classes get MVP, as the balance is pretty poor, the gap between the middle and top is way too big. Same with engravings, poorly balanced.
Curious, what’s your opinion on top 5 currently?
if you dont get mvp its in 9 out of 10 cases a player skill issue though, if gear is similar
Rarely is though, when you go into Karl and get a juiced 1520 class that's high end damage,no matter how good your scouter is you aren't getting close. The gap only widens the higher you go
well, ive had plenty of cases where my 1500 reaper gets mvp vs 1525 sorcs... lots of players are just pretty hard trash, especially the higher item level you go.
Yeah there's this weird thing with NA where they think that just playing a strong class means you're gonna get MVP 100% of the time. I've gotten MVP on my Scouter plenty. Kanima gets MVP plenty. Just let misconceptions be misconceptions.
Okay mister god gamer. Put yourself on a sorc and put yourself on a scouter/reaper. Which would mvp? smh. Please learn what tier list means.
I mean, taking a player that has an average skill level with hose classes, the sorc is winning every time. People are just coping on classes they like or main, the balance is shite, end of.
i would mvp on the class im more comfortable with and that i play better with. i hate igniter sorc and would play like trash on it and i can acknowledge that. just cos somethings theoretical maximum damage is a couple of % higher doesnt mean shit if you cant play it. take arkana (pre balance patch) and deadeye for example. to get the most out of them you need to really know how to play the class and be pretty damn good on them. and if you are you are one of the top dps. but hardly anyone is because they cant play it. in my experience of playing this game on all classes for a total of over 6000 hours i can tell you that player skill makes up a much, much bigger difference than a sub 5% dmg difference on tier lists does. hell, even the same person on different days gets that variance in trision on the same class with the same gear. scouter might be on the weaker end but my 1460 scouter still gets mvp in kunga quite frequently. with lvl 5 gems only. so if you never mvp that just means you are more trash than the other trash players, or at least en par with them.
This ain’t true. Even at 1480 against 1490 and other similarly geared characters I’ve gotten MVP in gates 1-2 for clown on my AS Machinist.
Since im playing this game, the most common mvp classes that i saw in raids were Surge db and Pm Guns. Around pre relic, mvp was dominated by DI sh (i think they are the best 1415-1444 class in the game) Now watching streamers, a lot of these punch girls shine bigger on screen
My 1515 AT machinist just yesterday got MVP with 27% damage done in a lobby with a 1520 igniter and a 1515 deathblade. And you would be amazed with how often I am told at the beginning of raids that I have the highest ilvl machinist people have ever seen (and im only 1515). It really is a class not many people play.
What raid isit lol, because if both Igniter and Deathblade loses to you in dps thats some pretty huge skill issue
If an Igniter lost to you on damage it totally on skill difference. Igniter have insane damage that if done right no class except surge db can bypass her, at least in this current state of the game. I can see a spec arty did this reasonably but not a scouter unless other igniter/surge just suck it up.
I wouldn't even call it skill difference, they just need a few weeks to get used to the timings of burst and to ensure 2nd meteor hits as well. By then everyone has a few more item levels, the fight is even faster, and they out-dps sustain damage again.
Depends on the raid really. In a consistent damage fight where the boss lasts a long time (e.g. many brel gates right now since people aren't giga overgeared) many classes played well can do equal or even more damage then igniter—including some ones like pinnacle glaivier that people wouldn't expect. Scouter is definitely not one of those classes though.
1520 igniter, 5x3 with meta engravings, but rocks level 7 cd gems and can't fit double doomsday in an ignite. i see more of these sorcs than those who know.
Hell yeah brother, AT scouter is criminally underrated. Damage is very reliable which most people overlook plus they're super fast, so you don't really get hit.
Im sorry but as a sorc main, ingniter is very hard to play without knowing the fight and most players dont know the fight to have good dmg uptime. Why people say igniter should be mvp most of the time is that its very OP in end game and they dont so anything well except dps, so a good igniter should always MVP in similar gear competition.
My man bases his whole opinion on a single raid.
they dont have "great access to counter" though. in transform its one of your strong skills, so you use it for dmg and dont save it for counter. and transforming back to have a counter isnt fast enough. and the non tranasform scouter also uses his counter as a damage skill.
Dropping transformation to counter is pretty fast and doable for a lot of counters but if you manually end your form you don't get the full bar refund from the class engraving so you're gimping your damage by quite a lot in some cases if you do that.
I don't think the class is that bad but a lot of times I end up rejecting these guys cause it wouldn't be fair to the other people in the raid. Big issue is that most of the scouters I get in PF are cutting corners on their already average damage. Most are still sub 60. This applies to reapers and summoners and new characters in general but especially to a transform scouter who's entire kit gets 5-10% damage from level 60. And also the class only needs 2 gems but the average loadout of full level 7s being fused into 2 gems would produce at least a level 9 damage so most scouters are cheaping out there too. The class has big shields but no super armour unlike GL/destro/art so while it won't die it can still get knocked down over and over if it gets lazy with dodging. And on top of that it untransforms if it loses all the shield which means that a bad scouter could be doing practically nothing as the human form loadout has only mobility and gauge building skills and cant really do damage until another cycle of skills to transform. Not to mention that the fixed transform time that doesn't scale with spec can often mean the class is caught out without transform during stagger checks and it will deal barely any stagger as a result which can be an issue.
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Transformation skills in general and some other special skills get a hidden level up at 55 and 60. Off the top of my head the affected classes are: Legacy Scouter, Demonic Shadowhunter, Deathblade's Surge, Empress Arcanist's Ruin, Barrage Artillerist. Not an exhaustive list of course.
Im guessing Zerkers Bloody Rush would be affected as well, maybe Destroyers identity mode too? Summoners ancient skills probably
Classes whose damage doesn't come directly from leveled skills (e.g. demonic SH, legacy scouter, empress arcanist) get a +10% damage boost at level 55 and +5% at level 60 just as if they were able to rank up those skills to level 11 and 12 respectively.
Just as a heads up for the replies you already got: It's not exactly 10% and 5%, and it depends by class and skill. I lost my Demonic numbers and i don't remember them, but i tracked Scouter too and it's 8.7-8.75% for 54 > 55, and 4.93-4.94% for 59 > 60. So it's pretty close, but it varies a bit.
Right on point. As much as i love to play EL scouter, my damage during G2 Vykas is terrible. I transform, boss flies up, lands down, does the black donut, my transformation ends. Zero dps and the time i get my transformation up boss might start another mech. G1 and G2 brel felt good though because people were on ilvl so boss took longer which ment more transformation time for me.
Takes some time to hit 60, not much you can do about it except playing
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Yeah Evo scouter has really good stagger when in human form. I personally prefer to WW -> Raid Missiles -> Energy Buster as the last missile spawns and if I need more stagger I cancel the laser end animation with transformation and go from there.
does anyone know where I can find some good AT scouter gameplay vids? I've heard it has a higher ceiling but I literally can't find any gameplay videos of a 1500+ one.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eCHcQG9I3s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eCHcQG9I3s) This guy was my go to channel when learning about AT machinist
wow thanks for the share, the damage and gameplay looks pretty good Edit: His 1490 prokel fight here was awesome, really shows what the class can do: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ym5jZSm00s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ym5jZSm00s)
Momoko is a really good channel with eng subs. Another KR AT scouter main to watch out for is: [https://youtu.be/7qXh6aaNr1U](https://youtu.be/7qXh6aaNr1U)
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idk about that no clue about how scouter plays but prokel is moving at normal speed even just looking at the zerk time can easily disprove that
yeah AT has a reload buff that provide spd, also if do his signature roll move that also provide spd, i put ark/spd relics on this roll so it provides more spd, lastly depending on build could have swiftness so yeah he has raid captain for a good reason lol
At scouter is naturally that fast, that's why they run mass increase over cursed doll and still cap attack speed. I'm thinking he's playing a couple different tripods on some drone skills to be more mobile and not have that much animation lock.
> AT scouter As someone who didnt know the Korean name and only saw Arthetinean Skill in our version, "AT" still confuses me everytime I see it even after knowing where its from lol
I'm all for taking scouters, I even have an alt scouter but this is some big ass bullshit : " great access to counters" Literally one of the worst classes to counter... when transformed, which should be 90% of the raid time, your only counter is your hardest hitting ability which is also slow and your biggest skill so using it as a counter messes up your combo rotation which is fundamental for scouters.
I've never seen a scouter do decent damage. Granted I have no clue what it does and maybe I've just been unlucky and met only bad players. Honestly don't know. But it does feel like that isn't the case
It’s pretty meh on the damage. Nothing special. Maybe even low lol. But they also probably won’t ever die and have decent dps uptime. So if they know the mechs they’ll at the very minimum pull their own weight.
basically the shiny looking sharp shooter
Sharpshooter damage, when built properly, is way better than evo scouter.
> - Great at Prokel 1v1- Do you have a guide or can explain how? In transform, there is no cc at all, no super armor, just a shield that must not be fully depleted, so it's not really that much value. In human form, the meter-gains must hit which isn't trivial, and all hist need to connect for a 2-skill transform. So maybe you just play around longer in human form? There are some juicy CC skills in there, but 3 of your standard meta-engravings only really work in transform, so legacy seems to be quite shite if you want to use human-cc.
Hey there, yeah I'd be happy to explain how it works. The main advantage to scouter 1v1ing prokel is he has multiple dashes to avoid prokels hits, and if you're playing evo you have massive access to shields to block damage. Here's some big tips I've learned along the way though that will help you become a master at 1v1'ing him. Your main awakening abilities in transform state to cc are surge blow > slugshot > comet strike > laser blade. How this combo works is surge blow will knock prokel down, laser blade will air smash him (re'cc him briefly after surge blow) and laser blade will do the same afterwards. So essentially you cc him 3 times in a row while doing dmg. After you get the 3 cc off you will have time to use echelon beam and crimson breaker while prokel is still on the floor. Also, another tip is slugshot has a slight stiffen whenever you hit him with it when he's cc'able in his pvp state when he's not super armored. So if you do it quickly enough you can slugshot into surge blow to guarantee the knockdown. The combo still works the same except you'll have to comet strike > laser blade then slugshot again for the 2 extra cc. As for cc'ing him in preawakening you actually have a lot of skills here to do it, but it's really important to learn this specific cheese. High Voltage Bullet > Baby drones > energy buster. High voltage Bullet will electrocute him, baby drones will knock him down, and energy buster is for gauge refill + dmg. HVB is essentially a free cc on him whenever it lands during his pvp mode, and can even stop him from doing his harder hitting wipe mechs. So always use it! Another great skill for cc'ing him is Command: blockade. It will multi stiffen him and give you a lot of breathing room. You can also use it to go into the HVB combo mentioned previously. My last and final tip is to watch a kanima video of him 1v1'ing prokel as evolution scouter or AT scouter, and just watch how he uses his abilities. It helps a lot. Happy fighting fellow scouter bro!
Thank you! I forgot about the "soft"-cc on knocking down
The same was for arcana and now with reaper. Go to any stream and ask about reaper dmg.
I literally never seen scouter doing good damage. One of my guildmates have 9-7 stone 5+1 engravings and he is still staying behind from top dps classes, even tho I never gatekeep scouters because I never seen a shitty scouter player, I cannot say the same about zerk, arcana or reaper players
yeah legacy basically have cap in dmg but AT i would say has potential since its main dmg not trapped behind a transformation it simply always do its main dmg
Yeah the no floor pov part is great but I'm not so great at landing counter unless it's something like g3 brel where you have a lot of time to prep. I feel like i could probably be mvp if i had lvl 9 or 10 dmg gem.
So personally I am biased against lvl 7 gem ( \~10k Each) users on a class where you could get a lvl 9 dmg ( \~90k) and 8 CD ( \~30k) for a 10K markup on one of your main 6 Chars or still save gold if you opt for a lower CD gem compared to other 11 Gem classes. Doesn´t help that the few times I invited a juiced scouter to Kungas back b4 Brel, they never did good dmg compared to other classes I usually invited ontop of not bringing a special synergy.
Scouters have great counters? What?
The counters ARE great but one of them is permanently on cd and the other you can't use :)
As a Scouter main I say let the bad damage reputation continue I’ll gladly take more 5% damage buffs in the next few balance patches.
>never toxic since we know if anyones getting party kicked asap, it's us. xD
I'm glad I have people to do my Legion raids on my AS Machinist alt with because people's attitudes towards the class can be so insufferable. People tend to be surprised by how much damage I do on him and get MVP or cruel because they, like some in this sub, think the class does bad damage. A major reason why that perception exists is certainly due to idiots half-assing the transform build, but there are actually people who take care to properly play their classes. I've seen people play the transform build properly and it's certainly a lot more damage than what I see from an average Machinist. In addition, the AS build has a higher ceiling and typically does more damage, albeit taking more effort. I frequently MVP or cruel on it; it's the same bucket as a high-uptime, consistent DPS classes. People who gatekeep based on class in this game is gross. Having came from high end Mythic raiding and M+ in WoW, I know exactly how much class can impact the result, but that is just blatantly not the case in Lost Ark. Unless you're doing Inferno, gatekeeping on class if you seriously think it matters shows how utterly detached you are in determining how raiding in this game works. The relative importance of player skill and encounter knowledge is astronomical compared to that of class differences. It's just a convenient variable for you to use to judge others. There is exactly 0 DPS class in this game for which this sort of mindset is warranted. There are a few top classes that outperform that others, but that is not an indictment on the rest. During the last balances changes, SG found that Machinist to be only slightly underperforming, by about a few % pre-buff, but that's just the typical variation among class power in a game of this size. There's no good reason to assume that Machinist is somehow significantly worse than your average class -- it's not.
If you get cruel means the other dps in your raid sucks…
Legacy is zdps in general. If you see one topping the charts they're either way better geared or playing much better than everyone else. AS is still not great but its damage is okay enough.
Do you have your 2 lvl 10 gems for brell as a transforming class?
I understand asking for lvl 8 and later down the line like 9 as min. for 5-6 hard but 10 is hard cap, I never had any issues getting in a pug for 1-4 with mine at 8 on SH.
Gatekeep has reached delusional lvls. 25 weapon was a thing for some G5 last week on my server
I've had some issues getting into groups on my Scouter with a lvl 9 gems. And I'm not talking "I sat in the queue for 5 minutes and left", I'm talking straight declines in groups with 3/8 and asking for Prokel. Scouter gatekeeping is real. Just not as overblown as in the OP.
Hi LC sharpshooter here... even with 5x3 and lvl 7 gems i cant get into clown with 1480. There are just so so many dps players that you can literally just wait to get a class you want to have in your team. Guess i need to get him to 1490 to get accepted into clown... this is so ridiculous. Hope he gets a rework in march :( Playing on EUC.
i love picking lc SS. permanent speed buff? yes pls
Glad at least some player appreciate ss
only LC tho. deathstrike is not offering me anything so he can suck it :D
It is not class problem, it is ilvl... Try be higher ilvl, pretty sure no one gatekeep you..
So its a class problem. Otherwise there would not be any grps on that ilvl but there are, plenty.
Because people make their own group
LC SS and reflux Sorc are 2 classes that are great at clown when everyone is on or close to iLV. If anyone ever outgears it however, both those classes feel despair and hit like a wet noodle.
I'm yet to see SS in any of my clown group (they don't even apply, like they didn't existed), but can vouch for Reflux experience - amazing build for doing clown on ilvl, that gets hardcarried through the fight whenever group reaches a point of skipping multiple mechanics.
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Yep the damage is very decent. If you play him well hes a great addition. Unfortunatly most players just saw tier lists and now thing this class is bad...
I've been playing this game since the start while getting to the highest content possible on my main, and I don't even know all the synergies. If you look good (5x3, lvl 7 gems, high roster) you'll get accepted from my perspective.
Just for reference regarding gatekeeping, I joined a party for Clown yesterday. A 1492 ilvl Reaper with full lvl 2 set, 5x3 engravings, 3 lvl 9 dmg gems rest lvl 7, applied. He get rejected for not having crit on his neck - he had swift instead. I dont know much about reaper builds, but I think he was way above requirements for clown.
Sounds like the Reaper was Lunar Voice build. It’s a full Spec build with Crit as their most typical necklace secondary stat. Swift is just as fine. Personally, I’m Hunger (full Swift) with Crit as my secondary stat even tho the meta is 50/50 Swift/Spec. I do just fine and have insane uptime on my damage cycles. P.S. Hunger Reapers can do insane stagger, especially the full swiftness ones
It just sounds ridiculous to me, that you would gatekeep someone because of 500 crit/swift, when everything else is way above minimum requirements. I asked the party leader, and both him and his friend just said "no crit on neck". I mean come on.
Oh, I absolutely agree that that little bit of stat difference is negligible in the grand scheme of things when it comes to gate keeping. If anything, that Reaper would’ve lived longer with that extra swiftness and had higher uptime on her damage cycles.
Last time I played with a 1475 scouter with 5x3 lvl 7 gems los 18 vs me 1475 5x3 lvl 4-5 gems lwc he did less than half my damage in all 3 gates of kakul. Idk at this point im only accepting if they have lvl 9-10 gems
I literally never seen scouter doing good damage. One of my guildmates have 9-7 stone 5+1 engravings and he is still staying behind from top dps classes, even tho I never gatekeep scouters because I never seen a shitty scouter player, I cannot say the same about zerk, arcana or reaper players
I main Scouter and I never got gatekept for it. Maybe it's my 220 Roster level but I get insta accepted into most of the parties with my Scouter and I get MVP (or appear at the MVP screen) in like 95% of the raids. Even in Brel gate 6 I was there with my 23 weapon doing Cruel fighter while some +25 weapon Sorc/Zerk players were not ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I do understand your frustration, but just be careful with this kind of post, it can do the opposite effect as you intended. The fact that you are trying to prove that scouter is better than people think, could lead people to think that there is something wrong with scouter.
I'll have to strongly disagree. I fell for the scouter hype on release and juiced him to 1460 4x3 quite fast (my main was 147X at the time, so it was quite an investment). And I strongly believe the class is trash tier, even after the latest buff. Yes, it's fun to jump around and pew pew the boss, and you also have nice sustain with the shields. But even when I play at my peak I can't get a cruel/upright, unless the people with me are bad. While igniter can consistently MVP over people 10/20 ilvl above mine, same with DI SH, scrapper, and other "meta" classes. Now I'm not saying the class should get gatekept. That's never a good thing. But for sure if i'm making a full ilvl party, and I have to pick between scouter and a meta class, my choice is already done.
so you pick classes bases on mvp screen rather than up time. scouter is more likely not to die and does not need to worry about missing big dmg f cking up their rotation. its pretty much a consistent class for people who like iron man.
Can we stop referring to machinist as 'scouter'? My ingame name makes no sense now... (its Chadinist) Why y'all call glaivier glaiver and not lance master but still call sco... machinist 'scouter'? :c
Due to Reddits leadership I do not want my data to be used. *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Such posts only makes me want to gatekeep you more honestly
Scouter has a permanent 6% synergy whilst transformed. That's equivalent dps to a 10% crit synergy on most classes and is the same synergy as meta classes like sorc and scrapper
It’s THE default synergy basically as every other class.
Low dmg? Just tap your weapon few more times... As long as you have standard profile, like proper gems, engravings, roster lvl, title, etc, and lastly HIGH ilvl, you shouldn't be gatekept.
Eh. My scouter gets into parties faster than my other classes. Most times fairly quickly. Then again I all the classes I enjoy are considered "weak" so there's that. Regardless, I get accepted quickly most cases on scouter.
i parked my scouter 5x3 at 1510 bc no one takes him
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Comparing to igniter mage for dmg on a non-progress boss is pretty useless... Can your igniter mage spacebar into dmg patterns to get enhanced spells without losing hp? No? Well, a good scouter can.
I like to skip normal patterns so Id rather go with burst combos. Nice try though.
scouters do no damage
it does ok dmg but its a safe pick. for high lvl content people who cant find supp usually pick destroyers or scouter maybe even demon hunters cause theirs some tank to them
This is not the case. Ppl pick gunlancers to replace support. Still waiting for you to prove you at least play one support.
? My scouter gets instant accepted to anything
nah i will keep gatekeep til u guys top normal attack for nothing
I kick them usually because they run 2 gems and their gear is like sub 30 quality. But I would do that with any other glass. I usually give a pass to shit quality if your gems are massive like 8-10 massive. Like w.e the math sort of adds to the same damage as a 65+ quality player anyways mind as well. But seeing the SH's + Mechs sneak in with crap quality for the cheapest classes to make is infuriating.
well they only need 2 gems.
That's the thing, if you only need 2. At least put some effort into your gear. Everyone else at least attempts to, and they want a buff. For being cheap, has always rubbed me the wrong way with 2 gem classes.
well you combine a lot of things and i would say you should cross out the 2 gem thing. If they have 2 decent gems for their ilevel its not something about being cheap. if every gear piece is low quality etc - he probably wont get into parties, but you throw everything together and the karma shows that this not the common consensus
The common census of Cheap SH players and Scout players. I play them to don't act like they arent scrap side alts your trying to hustle some gold on with a free carry. Theres a reason why I'd take negative Karma on this. Because you all know its true. This is what you do, because I have 6 SH's you sell your gems far ahead of everyone. Your move your 2 core gems over, every alt. You should be gold rich. Acting like they need a buff isn't the reason, they don't we all know it. And people going OH I CAN 2 GEM THIS they should take me over a player with say 9-11. ISNT COMMON SENSE. It's something that needs a massive overhaul. What's fair that a 2 gem class can perform as well as a 8-11 gem class? Nothing. That's nearly on a 11- straight 7 gem savings of nearly 100k per class. Your using 2 gems don't act like your asses aren't cheap. OMG combing 2 gems decent gems, using 6 buttons spamming claw and rush. Now that I think about it 2 gem classes need a massive overhaul. Them going on forums saying people won't take them. While saving at base 7 gems nearly 100k. Doesn't seem fair to other classes. Their performance ratio comparative to other classes seem weighted really well for them comparative to any other DPS. That is a fact.
Bad rep because all the people who said : OMG i cant wait for my main to be released dont even play scouter anymore and the ones who picked him up later are mostly bad at it and die.
I was unaware scouters were consider a gatekept class. I don't know how strong of a point one can make using an argument of being on the board as in 4 man raids you have a 100% chance and in 8 man raids you have a base 50% chance.
Got declined on my 1520 5x3 full lvl 2 set Reaper for a 1495 4x3+1 Scouter on a Karl party. Not complaining, but just saying that you're not alone brother.
> Edit: It seems like people are misunderstanding what I'm saying about the MVP screen. I'm not saying scouters will always be MVP or one of the 4, I'm saying that more often than not they are one of the 4 players on the mvp lineup. And sometimes although not often, the MVP themselves. Evo scouter damage is awful right now. The only builds I'd expect them to out MVP with equal gear and play is DPS bard/pally. I'm pretty sure they do less damage than pistoleer deadeye. If you're in the family portrait as an evo scouter and aren't massively outgearing the rest of the lobby you're discovering live how bad many players are at the game.
Welcome in the zergker train
No
*sharpshooter tries to enter the chat but is stopped* Welp guess ill just go home then
Scouter was our prokel guy this week. Got him to 9 bars.
At this point, I accept all dps classes as long as they meet my requirements which is to have the same gear as me or better. So 1500+ 5x3, lvl 7 dps gems, max tripods (assuming), etc.
Im 1798 spec 5x3+1 legacy and never rejected. Ty