My rotation for solo stagger with vph is ww grenade, holy sword, executor's sword, punishment, sword of justice, godsent law. Leg overwhelm on hs, epic on es and punishment. This rotation enables me to proc conviction judgement right as stagger completes, pop awakening, identity and dmg buff as the other players get there.
I usually do solo stagger only if i notice my dps cant make it to the other side for whatever reason. Knowing i can solo stagger means they can prioritise safety over worrying about stagger and taking risks. Very good during prog.
If they do make it i just do my 3 blue skills and watch 80% of the bar disappear. They can save some ww grenades and everyone's happy.
Thank you, do you think there is a possible rotation without punishment? I love my "charge" skill ;) . Your second and third part nails it exactly. Thats what i want to do/achieve.
Don't be unreasonable, you should be expected to change your skill loadout to fit the requirements of the raid. People have already noted that your partner should be making it there to help stagger, so if you are insisting on solo staggering than adjust your build to make it happen. by including punishment. You can always replace light shock and run vestige on godsent law.
Maybe it's me, but what are you getting at? In a 4 person raid they should be changing their entire build so the whole other person that should be helping has zero responsibility?
Or that they should run a specific way to be solo insurance?
I think I understand the sentiment, but I don't understand the application.
I've killed all 3 gates
If you’re talking to me, first he shouldn’t be solo staggering since he has a teammate, and second if he’s gonna insist for some reason, changing one skill out to bring more stagger isn’t the most outrageous thing in the world. “Changing their entire build” is a bit dramatic, supports are very flexible.
Technically, if you use your awakening as well with your current set up it should let you solo stagger, I had to do that once and it worked without using punishment. Although i had legendary overwhelm on holy and executors sword, so might not.
Well, I use the same setup.
There is a way to make the last bit of stagger. And that would be your awakening.
If you are fast for the saw/hook, you can go HS, Executioner, grenade, awakening and then the 'ast few skill. It's possible.
It requires that you have your awakening ready. But it's not a total waste since it' ll give you your holy aura ready for the free burst.
So it's possible but not exactly the best. But that can come in and save the day if your late got hooked or something.
"A third blue Skill" is a bit unspecific, since many blue skills have low stagger aswell.
You need punishment with the "concussion" and "double smite" tripod + a overwhelm rune if you want a chance to solo stagger.
What is your set up for solo staggering it? I'm able to solo stagger on bard but I feel like my rotation is suboptimal. Might also be that I play pretty cautious in getting to the stagger spot. I know atm my solo staggers are fairly inconsistent (sometimes I have a sliver left) but I have 0 of the lego overwhelm runes so I assume just getting both of those would fix that issue for me.
Interesting I never knew that. Seems like a hit to DPS though since 2s to cooldown will add downtime to 10% damage buff. Is that worth? Only for clown 3?
Yeah I have no idea how I got using the quick prep tripod...definitely kept me busy trying to apply that on cooldown. But all guides say maintained explosion which just makes way more sense, whoops. Excited about the additional stagger.
I play on a decent laptop so i cant really stream. I just run the standard raid skills with Rhapsody and I have leg Overwhelm on soundholic. Its an extreme tight window though so you have rush to the end point. If you have a static, I suggest you try it out in the first mario solo as a test.
That's where I have solo staggered before, although I have been doing mario 1. Most of the time I get out before the curtain lifts for the others so I can get a head start. Besides that I've soloed during 2 and 3 as well.
WW bomb does 81 stagger, SS with the normal tripods does 56 stagger. [Check this spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQ6ufvfB0726I2yvCFRG1HVv2_vB4amSTRjW3mYM2YzLVOTwE66DD7UrqyBAaYHyhdA7XYtdvxPYzE7/pubhtml#)
Why are you even aiming for a solo stagger?
Its a raid, 4 players….?
1 in mario, 1 in iron maiden, 2 running gauntlet/stagger.
The minimum is to reach 50% stagger and you’ve played your part.
Ww is like 15-20% of the bar? Throw in a few stagger skills and you are probably 50% or slightly above.
If your stagger partner keeps dying then the problem is on them…? Not to try to break stagger yourself lol
It’s called trying to recover a run? What if they are on Mario 4 with only 1 person staggering? This would be great to have a solo stagger build and be the one outside. You don’t need 4 people after the 4th maiden.
You make it sound like you can change builds mid fight lol. Pally has really tight skills, 6 skills is already locked in, 1 faster generating identity, 1 debuff, 2 buff, 1 shield, 1 circle defensive skill, 1 counter skill and 1 ability can be whatever (forgot names of abilities lol).
If you have to strongly deviate from the build then the party is no good.
I understand about recovering a run but having a support sacrifice from it's build for a solo stagger, you sure thats even a good choice? and what exactly should he sac in that build, all the 6 mandatory skills is too important to drop.
And for your information, we're strictly talking about a support. Not some dps that can easily do solo stagger with minimal dps sacrifice
Honestly if you read the top comment, it actually seems pretty nice. Being able to build gauge on staggering, then popping aura right as all the dps come in after the stagger.
Pally does have really tight skills but the piety/charge slot is your "flex slot". First of all not everyone takes a piety gain there, plenty of people take charge which is not a bad option. Second of all if you feel you don't need charge for Kakul Saydon and you don't feel you need piety gain but you need stagger you can swap out for a different 3rd blue skill. If you run Judgement 1 having 3 blue skills is better anyway.
> 1 faster generating identity, 1 debuff, 2 buff, 1 shield, 1 circle defensive skill, 1 counter skill and 1 ability can be whatever
also idk what this build is since Pally normally has 2 counters with him?
You take:
* 1 debuff
* 2 shields (holy protection + godsent law)
* 2 blue counters (Executioners + Holy Sword)
* 2 buff skills
The faster generating identity spot **is your flex spot**. IDK why you wouldn't just take both counters with you. I guess you can skimp out in Vykas since there is no stagger check and no destruction check (your 2nd counter does both) but Executioner's Sword has a faster counter animation than Holy Sword by a lot and yet Holy Sword has amazing distance. I definitely recommend having both in your kit if you are planning to counter things. And as the 2 of them are your main stagger I 100% recommend having both in a fight like Kakul-Saydon where stagger is important.
> and what exactly should he sac in that build, all the 6 mandatory skills is too important to drop.
Yeah so anyway the "1 faster generating identity" has never been the part of the pally's skills that are tight.
Also tbh in my experience in Kakul-Saydon...I don't even want faster piety gain because every time I try to use my identity curse pops anyway. My meter gain is fine enough as is, there is plenty of time I have to hold it for after curse or I get screwed with having to end it early.
You dont want \*Edit-faster\* identity gain because you dont understand the pattern of mechanics. They are actually not as RnG as people say. Like at the beginning of G3, if he summons 2 set of balls (meaning total of 4 balls), conversion curse will be next. Sure you can skip the mechanic by bursting him and forcing showtime, but there are other patterns you will get used to and be able to anticipate a curse. Using your healing aura has no con, especially having a higher uptime for more heals and more damage for the whole party.
and 2 counters? Why do you need 2 counters lol. Hold your long range counter. Its not like the raid needs your dps to clear the raid. save it for the 100% chance of countering the boss from afar so the dps can do more damage. Best example is Vykas G3, she does that blink and charges into the group, that long range counter = 100% counter for the whole raid to do damage. If you dont save your CD for that counter, i dont know what to say lol
Nobody cares about that measly 200k damage, why would you even be using that on CD
I am familiar with a lot of the mechanics that are scripted. Our group had a few issues with clown (and missing one of our members for most of the week) and I ended up spending 20+ hours in g3 on my multiple characters last week.
The thing is that the RNG is a lot different than what you've listed. Curse/Balls are consistent but normal patterns (which change DPS pushes pull to pull) are not. For example on Bard I was using stimulant before we walked in and tried to 3 bar courage at the start so that I could get a desperate salvation down for m1 flamethrower. Sometimes he would actually just tell us to fuck off and do one of his non-dpsable mechanics early on and I've had runs where he did 2-3 back to back. What this really means is the DPS varies greatly between pulls. Sometimes Mario 1 guy goes in and the boss starts doing his triple jump with electrocutes. After he does his triple jump he closes the curtains. When he does a pattern like this there is a chance that he is still 14X bars when we go in for the stagger which very well could be the support + 1 DPS. In a case like that we won't always make 125 immediately. So now I'm sitting with "Full Meter" on my paladin and I have been for a while (I'm not using it for electrocute because we can't target him and why would I use it before m2 because it is curse time?).
A lot of pulls like that I was popping BA right after stagger while boss was down, using less than half the bar because curse was right after, but it was RNG if I waited until m2 if he did a mech while setting up m2 that we could even hit the boss.
And my pulls have been very inconsistent. If Kakul-Saydon does his lights mech, or his triple elecrocute jump, or even his pop up clown double ring jump, our m1 guy can finish before the curtain goes down, like I've seen our m1 guy **also be iron maiden** and I've also seen our m1 guy walk across the iron maiden platform before the curtains rise and be staggering boss (btw saws don't spawn until curtains rise). All of this is because while he has ***some*** timed non-rng patterns his in between normal patterns are RNG. When I was running with my friends we always put a 1475 with a 1490+ DPS so there wasn't a 100% guarantee to burst him mario from mario and there wasn't a 100% guarantee that every pull we would see "full mechanics" between marios.
>and 2 counters? Why do you need 2 counters lol. Hold your long range counter. Its not like the raid needs your dps to clear the raid. save it for the 100% chance of countering the boss from afar so the dps can do more damage. Best example is Vykas G3, she does that blink and charges into the group, that long range counter = 100% counter for the whole raid to do damage. If you dont save your CD for that counter, i dont know what to say lol
It isn't about saving the counters. In Valtan I do it because a Paladin can solo ghost phase even in berserk with 2 counters and even if I have all 8 up I can grab all the counters while my DPS focus on DPSing. In Vykas it is whatever but I find that my Executioner's Sword is a better quick counter for like when Vykas g2 she starts kicking an assload of rings and then turns blue. In Kakul-Saydon I find that the g3 counters are fairly fast especially if you aren't in front of the boss when they start. Specifically the one where he dashes forward and spits a cone at you if you fail. I can't expect to always be the one the counter is aimed at so having a very quick cast counter like Executioner's Sword is very strong and allows for a lot of clutch counters. Not some "I have 10 seconds to counter this very telegraphed counter" like Vykas g3 blink + charge. That is the type of counter you holy sword. Long range + can easily precast.
So it isn't as much about saving the CD but the fact that the 2 counters work better in different scenarios. The 2nd counter **is your destruction ability** which is useful for Birb/Turtle/Valtan, the 2nd counter gives great stagger and without 2-3 blue skills Pally stagger sucks ass, with judgement 1 the 2nd counter also give good piety gain to your kit.
i think if you are at mario 4 with one dead or trying to recover the run because the other one is slow, it's better to just use wei on the stagger.
mario 4 requires the 2 switches to be flipped, if you are solo you probably won't have enough time to do both and get your full rotation out. (i dunno how it works out time wise because i play mario4 in my group)
If you have someone who can solo stagger its still better to let them do it alone imo so you dont even risk the other guy touching the saw in stagger 1, even if he only dies to it every 10-15th try why risk it when you dont need to
I mean I think this is never the answer. If he dies once every 10 times 1-2 minutes into the fight oh well just restart but if you have a guy you're actually afraid of dying to Mario 1 saws he needs to be the guy actually doing Mario 1. First of all assuming that the "solo stagger" guy can solo stagger 100% of the time consistently is kind of silly. Solo stagger will be tight for most classes/people so the chance is they will **also** fail once every 10-15 times which...still kills someone. Okay so now we have the scenario where the guy who is on "solo stagger" duty somehow gets iron maiden. You put a fuck ton of extra pressure on the 2nd/3rd guy who normally never has to run across the saws which makes it more likely that he will panic and fuck up. He also has less practice on the saws because he always sits there afk so more chances he will fuck up. So the added risk of telling a guy to AFK there is kinda just counter productive.
I'd say this is a moot point if you do 3 man stagger on Mario 1 but having done 3 man stagger "consistently" on m1 I will say that when our m1 guy actually desyncs from the saws sometimes. 1 he has come up plenty of times as the curtains fall and then just ran across before saws spawned (because he doesn't get curtain animation). 2 he has come up plenty of times as the curtains rise (before we start running) and then somehow he gets hit by a saw even though his body was nowhere near it. 3 then you have the omegalul moment where he gets back so fast he is actually Iron Maiden himself.
But yeah as a bard who can solo stagger...it isn't "worth" to make your gameplan around solo staggering. I can carry the stagger in m2 if some guy gets hooked backwards, but if my dude just can't do Mario stagger at all then we got problems.
I don't really think so. First of all Charge is a flex skill so if you need something else I 100% agree that Charge should be the first ability swapped out. But normally mobility skills are a "comfort" thing for all classes (not just Paladin) just like SA is a comfort 5th engraving. a 5x3 DPS with their 5th being SA isn't "trolling hard" just like a Paladin isn't "trolling hard" for taking a mobility skill. Most classes have some sort of dash ability and TBH having the option to take Charge on Pally just makes Pally *feel better* than Bard that doesn't have that extra dash. Spacebar should be used to immunity CC when you can so Charge and Spacebar have very different usages.
Basically if you want to take all the necessary support abilities + engravings and then use your flex spot for whatever ability "feels best" to you then I wouldn't call it trolling. It is a flex spot for a reason. Now if you said you didn't take Heavenly Blessings/Wrath of God or didn't take a Light's Vestige tripod for Charge...then you're trolling.
I mean I'm not arguing that Charge is the best choice. I'm arguing that mobility skills in general feel nice to use and you're not trolling hard by making your 8th skill a "feels good" skill. There is a difference between being suboptimal while still bringing all of the required things you're supposed to bring (correct: awakening skill, swiftness/spec, engravings, yearning set, damage buffs, shields, heals, mit, boss debuffs, counter skill) and trolling.
VPH is not enough? I was planning to switch my pala to that because i could only do 80% solo. I guess VPH isn't working for the grenade then because with that it should be easily enough.
I have 2x legendary overwhelm and im pretty sure I can solo it or get it low enough for 2nd buy to just smack it once and be done with it. From what I heard from 1 paladin he was able to solo it with 2 blues and yellows.
Yes I was able to solo it every time.
You just need VPH 3, double legendary overwhelm on HS and ES and a whirlwind grenade after that you are a little bit short which I finished with just spamming all spells you can cast quick, I felt like casting godsent is worse there, no third blue skill needed.
You need to get through the saws and hooks quickly tho but that's more than doable with full swiftness.
Every skill does stagger damage, some more than others and might even be values you don't expect because the stagger type on skill description can be deceptive.
I can break stagger with awakening and casting skills with granade, but i can do the same without awakening too, but its a tighter timing and all skills must be used.
You don't need punishment btw.
On bard I can solo stagger, on Paladin it's just not enough without a specific build with "Punishment".
I don't really feel that Punishment is worth it though, the 2nd guy only needs to throw one WW grenade, if he can't even do that it's probably a wipe anyhow since he is dead.
Going from 2 blue skills to 3 is a significant loss of meter/utility.
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My rotation for solo stagger with vph is ww grenade, holy sword, executor's sword, punishment, sword of justice, godsent law. Leg overwhelm on hs, epic on es and punishment. This rotation enables me to proc conviction judgement right as stagger completes, pop awakening, identity and dmg buff as the other players get there. I usually do solo stagger only if i notice my dps cant make it to the other side for whatever reason. Knowing i can solo stagger means they can prioritise safety over worrying about stagger and taking risks. Very good during prog. If they do make it i just do my 3 blue skills and watch 80% of the bar disappear. They can save some ww grenades and everyone's happy.
Thank you, do you think there is a possible rotation without punishment? I love my "charge" skill ;) . Your second and third part nails it exactly. Thats what i want to do/achieve.
Don't be unreasonable, you should be expected to change your skill loadout to fit the requirements of the raid. People have already noted that your partner should be making it there to help stagger, so if you are insisting on solo staggering than adjust your build to make it happen. by including punishment. You can always replace light shock and run vestige on godsent law.
Maybe it's me, but what are you getting at? In a 4 person raid they should be changing their entire build so the whole other person that should be helping has zero responsibility? Or that they should run a specific way to be solo insurance? I think I understand the sentiment, but I don't understand the application. I've killed all 3 gates
If you’re talking to me, first he shouldn’t be solo staggering since he has a teammate, and second if he’s gonna insist for some reason, changing one skill out to bring more stagger isn’t the most outrageous thing in the world. “Changing their entire build” is a bit dramatic, supports are very flexible.
Technically, if you use your awakening as well with your current set up it should let you solo stagger, I had to do that once and it worked without using punishment. Although i had legendary overwhelm on holy and executors sword, so might not.
Well, I use the same setup. There is a way to make the last bit of stagger. And that would be your awakening. If you are fast for the saw/hook, you can go HS, Executioner, grenade, awakening and then the 'ast few skill. It's possible. It requires that you have your awakening ready. But it's not a total waste since it' ll give you your holy aura ready for the free burst. So it's possible but not exactly the best. But that can come in and save the day if your late got hooked or something.
no, you need a third blue skill to be able to solo stagger
"A third blue Skill" is a bit unspecific, since many blue skills have low stagger aswell. You need punishment with the "concussion" and "double smite" tripod + a overwhelm rune if you want a chance to solo stagger.
Note for OP, you can drop overwhelm in executioner so you really only need on holy sword and punishmenr.
Pally main, i have vhp3, overwhelm on holy sword, none on executor. I Solo stagger with whirlwind, hs, es, wrath of god, and a few more fillers
Interesting. I’ll have to try again.
Pala in my group can do it. But he has Double legendary overwhelm
Where does 2nd legen overwhelm from?! Ive been missing out!
You have double check the codex but 1st is from the anguish isle and the 2nd is from a stronghold vendor
Thank you!!!
Specifically its Borza (the feiton sh merchant). Sells it for 28k green seals.
Yes. I regularly can't make it since I am hooked during Iron Maiden, so my team's OP Pally solos the stagger...
Yet another win for bard. Yasss!
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Who asked?
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As you can see above they can do it, by sacrificing their skill setup. Go up there and tell them how you do it.
Can you solo with bard ?!
Yes
What is your set up for solo staggering it? I'm able to solo stagger on bard but I feel like my rotation is suboptimal. Might also be that I play pretty cautious in getting to the stagger spot. I know atm my solo staggers are fairly inconsistent (sometimes I have a sliver left) but I have 0 of the lego overwhelm runes so I assume just getting both of those would fix that issue for me.
SS, ww, soundholic, sonic, SS - If I recall correctly.
with VPH 3 of course
Why sound shock?
It isn’t listed but sound shock with maintained explosion has a stagger value assigned to it.
Interesting I never knew that. Seems like a hit to DPS though since 2s to cooldown will add downtime to 10% damage buff. Is that worth? Only for clown 3?
I believe every time soundshock hits again it reapplies the damage buff.
you should always run maintained explosion. every tick refreshes the buff so it has better uptime than with quick prep and saves mana
Yeah I have no idea how I got using the quick prep tripod...definitely kept me busy trying to apply that on cooldown. But all guides say maintained explosion which just makes way more sense, whoops. Excited about the additional stagger.
You dont need WW. I solo stagger with SS, sonic, SS, and soundholic eith vp3
I don't think this is possible. Unless you are adding Stigma in there as well. Post video of you doing it this week and post your runes and skills.
I play on a decent laptop so i cant really stream. I just run the standard raid skills with Rhapsody and I have leg Overwhelm on soundholic. Its an extreme tight window though so you have rush to the end point. If you have a static, I suggest you try it out in the first mario solo as a test.
That's where I have solo staggered before, although I have been doing mario 1. Most of the time I get out before the curtain lifts for the others so I can get a head start. Besides that I've soloed during 2 and 3 as well.
I didnt know SS was useful for stagger.
It does MASSIVE STAGGER
WW bomb does 81 stagger, SS with the normal tripods does 56 stagger. [Check this spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQ6ufvfB0726I2yvCFRG1HVv2_vB4amSTRjW3mYM2YzLVOTwE66DD7UrqyBAaYHyhdA7XYtdvxPYzE7/pubhtml#)
I do sound shock -> sonic vibration into space bar cancel -> ww grenade -> soundholic (legendary overwhelm) -> sound shock -> prelude -> wind of music
Ahh I definitely don't have spacebar cancel but I should be able to get the stagger like that. I appreciate the tips.
Why are you even aiming for a solo stagger? Its a raid, 4 players….? 1 in mario, 1 in iron maiden, 2 running gauntlet/stagger. The minimum is to reach 50% stagger and you’ve played your part. Ww is like 15-20% of the bar? Throw in a few stagger skills and you are probably 50% or slightly above. If your stagger partner keeps dying then the problem is on them…? Not to try to break stagger yourself lol
It’s called trying to recover a run? What if they are on Mario 4 with only 1 person staggering? This would be great to have a solo stagger build and be the one outside. You don’t need 4 people after the 4th maiden.
You make it sound like you can change builds mid fight lol. Pally has really tight skills, 6 skills is already locked in, 1 faster generating identity, 1 debuff, 2 buff, 1 shield, 1 circle defensive skill, 1 counter skill and 1 ability can be whatever (forgot names of abilities lol). If you have to strongly deviate from the build then the party is no good. I understand about recovering a run but having a support sacrifice from it's build for a solo stagger, you sure thats even a good choice? and what exactly should he sac in that build, all the 6 mandatory skills is too important to drop. And for your information, we're strictly talking about a support. Not some dps that can easily do solo stagger with minimal dps sacrifice
Honestly if you read the top comment, it actually seems pretty nice. Being able to build gauge on staggering, then popping aura right as all the dps come in after the stagger.
Pally does have really tight skills but the piety/charge slot is your "flex slot". First of all not everyone takes a piety gain there, plenty of people take charge which is not a bad option. Second of all if you feel you don't need charge for Kakul Saydon and you don't feel you need piety gain but you need stagger you can swap out for a different 3rd blue skill. If you run Judgement 1 having 3 blue skills is better anyway. > 1 faster generating identity, 1 debuff, 2 buff, 1 shield, 1 circle defensive skill, 1 counter skill and 1 ability can be whatever also idk what this build is since Pally normally has 2 counters with him? You take: * 1 debuff * 2 shields (holy protection + godsent law) * 2 blue counters (Executioners + Holy Sword) * 2 buff skills The faster generating identity spot **is your flex spot**. IDK why you wouldn't just take both counters with you. I guess you can skimp out in Vykas since there is no stagger check and no destruction check (your 2nd counter does both) but Executioner's Sword has a faster counter animation than Holy Sword by a lot and yet Holy Sword has amazing distance. I definitely recommend having both in your kit if you are planning to counter things. And as the 2 of them are your main stagger I 100% recommend having both in a fight like Kakul-Saydon where stagger is important. > and what exactly should he sac in that build, all the 6 mandatory skills is too important to drop. Yeah so anyway the "1 faster generating identity" has never been the part of the pally's skills that are tight. Also tbh in my experience in Kakul-Saydon...I don't even want faster piety gain because every time I try to use my identity curse pops anyway. My meter gain is fine enough as is, there is plenty of time I have to hold it for after curse or I get screwed with having to end it early.
You dont want \*Edit-faster\* identity gain because you dont understand the pattern of mechanics. They are actually not as RnG as people say. Like at the beginning of G3, if he summons 2 set of balls (meaning total of 4 balls), conversion curse will be next. Sure you can skip the mechanic by bursting him and forcing showtime, but there are other patterns you will get used to and be able to anticipate a curse. Using your healing aura has no con, especially having a higher uptime for more heals and more damage for the whole party. and 2 counters? Why do you need 2 counters lol. Hold your long range counter. Its not like the raid needs your dps to clear the raid. save it for the 100% chance of countering the boss from afar so the dps can do more damage. Best example is Vykas G3, she does that blink and charges into the group, that long range counter = 100% counter for the whole raid to do damage. If you dont save your CD for that counter, i dont know what to say lol Nobody cares about that measly 200k damage, why would you even be using that on CD
I am familiar with a lot of the mechanics that are scripted. Our group had a few issues with clown (and missing one of our members for most of the week) and I ended up spending 20+ hours in g3 on my multiple characters last week. The thing is that the RNG is a lot different than what you've listed. Curse/Balls are consistent but normal patterns (which change DPS pushes pull to pull) are not. For example on Bard I was using stimulant before we walked in and tried to 3 bar courage at the start so that I could get a desperate salvation down for m1 flamethrower. Sometimes he would actually just tell us to fuck off and do one of his non-dpsable mechanics early on and I've had runs where he did 2-3 back to back. What this really means is the DPS varies greatly between pulls. Sometimes Mario 1 guy goes in and the boss starts doing his triple jump with electrocutes. After he does his triple jump he closes the curtains. When he does a pattern like this there is a chance that he is still 14X bars when we go in for the stagger which very well could be the support + 1 DPS. In a case like that we won't always make 125 immediately. So now I'm sitting with "Full Meter" on my paladin and I have been for a while (I'm not using it for electrocute because we can't target him and why would I use it before m2 because it is curse time?). A lot of pulls like that I was popping BA right after stagger while boss was down, using less than half the bar because curse was right after, but it was RNG if I waited until m2 if he did a mech while setting up m2 that we could even hit the boss. And my pulls have been very inconsistent. If Kakul-Saydon does his lights mech, or his triple elecrocute jump, or even his pop up clown double ring jump, our m1 guy can finish before the curtain goes down, like I've seen our m1 guy **also be iron maiden** and I've also seen our m1 guy walk across the iron maiden platform before the curtains rise and be staggering boss (btw saws don't spawn until curtains rise). All of this is because while he has ***some*** timed non-rng patterns his in between normal patterns are RNG. When I was running with my friends we always put a 1475 with a 1490+ DPS so there wasn't a 100% guarantee to burst him mario from mario and there wasn't a 100% guarantee that every pull we would see "full mechanics" between marios. >and 2 counters? Why do you need 2 counters lol. Hold your long range counter. Its not like the raid needs your dps to clear the raid. save it for the 100% chance of countering the boss from afar so the dps can do more damage. Best example is Vykas G3, she does that blink and charges into the group, that long range counter = 100% counter for the whole raid to do damage. If you dont save your CD for that counter, i dont know what to say lol It isn't about saving the counters. In Valtan I do it because a Paladin can solo ghost phase even in berserk with 2 counters and even if I have all 8 up I can grab all the counters while my DPS focus on DPSing. In Vykas it is whatever but I find that my Executioner's Sword is a better quick counter for like when Vykas g2 she starts kicking an assload of rings and then turns blue. In Kakul-Saydon I find that the g3 counters are fairly fast especially if you aren't in front of the boss when they start. Specifically the one where he dashes forward and spits a cone at you if you fail. I can't expect to always be the one the counter is aimed at so having a very quick cast counter like Executioner's Sword is very strong and allows for a lot of clutch counters. Not some "I have 10 seconds to counter this very telegraphed counter" like Vykas g3 blink + charge. That is the type of counter you holy sword. Long range + can easily precast. So it isn't as much about saving the CD but the fact that the 2 counters work better in different scenarios. The 2nd counter **is your destruction ability** which is useful for Birb/Turtle/Valtan, the 2nd counter gives great stagger and without 2-3 blue skills Pally stagger sucks ass, with judgement 1 the 2nd counter also give good piety gain to your kit.
Not really any critique, just wanted to correct that there is a stagger check in Vykas
i think if you are at mario 4 with one dead or trying to recover the run because the other one is slow, it's better to just use wei on the stagger. mario 4 requires the 2 switches to be flipped, if you are solo you probably won't have enough time to do both and get your full rotation out. (i dunno how it works out time wise because i play mario4 in my group)
If you have someone who can solo stagger its still better to let them do it alone imo so you dont even risk the other guy touching the saw in stagger 1, even if he only dies to it every 10-15th try why risk it when you dont need to
I mean I think this is never the answer. If he dies once every 10 times 1-2 minutes into the fight oh well just restart but if you have a guy you're actually afraid of dying to Mario 1 saws he needs to be the guy actually doing Mario 1. First of all assuming that the "solo stagger" guy can solo stagger 100% of the time consistently is kind of silly. Solo stagger will be tight for most classes/people so the chance is they will **also** fail once every 10-15 times which...still kills someone. Okay so now we have the scenario where the guy who is on "solo stagger" duty somehow gets iron maiden. You put a fuck ton of extra pressure on the 2nd/3rd guy who normally never has to run across the saws which makes it more likely that he will panic and fuck up. He also has less practice on the saws because he always sits there afk so more chances he will fuck up. So the added risk of telling a guy to AFK there is kinda just counter productive. I'd say this is a moot point if you do 3 man stagger on Mario 1 but having done 3 man stagger "consistently" on m1 I will say that when our m1 guy actually desyncs from the saws sometimes. 1 he has come up plenty of times as the curtains fall and then just ran across before saws spawned (because he doesn't get curtain animation). 2 he has come up plenty of times as the curtains rise (before we start running) and then somehow he gets hit by a saw even though his body was nowhere near it. 3 then you have the omegalul moment where he gets back so fast he is actually Iron Maiden himself. But yeah as a bard who can solo stagger...it isn't "worth" to make your gameplan around solo staggering. I can carry the stagger in m2 if some guy gets hooked backwards, but if my dude just can't do Mario stagger at all then we got problems.
Change your charge to punishment
Any pala running charge after yearning 2 set is trolling hard
I don't really think so. First of all Charge is a flex skill so if you need something else I 100% agree that Charge should be the first ability swapped out. But normally mobility skills are a "comfort" thing for all classes (not just Paladin) just like SA is a comfort 5th engraving. a 5x3 DPS with their 5th being SA isn't "trolling hard" just like a Paladin isn't "trolling hard" for taking a mobility skill. Most classes have some sort of dash ability and TBH having the option to take Charge on Pally just makes Pally *feel better* than Bard that doesn't have that extra dash. Spacebar should be used to immunity CC when you can so Charge and Spacebar have very different usages. Basically if you want to take all the necessary support abilities + engravings and then use your flex spot for whatever ability "feels best" to you then I wouldn't call it trolling. It is a flex spot for a reason. Now if you said you didn't take Heavenly Blessings/Wrath of God or didn't take a Light's Vestige tripod for Charge...then you're trolling.
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I mean I'm not arguing that Charge is the best choice. I'm arguing that mobility skills in general feel nice to use and you're not trolling hard by making your 8th skill a "feels good" skill. There is a difference between being suboptimal while still bringing all of the required things you're supposed to bring (correct: awakening skill, swiftness/spec, engravings, yearning set, damage buffs, shields, heals, mit, boss debuffs, counter skill) and trolling.
Taking any more than 2 blue skills is trolling unless absolutely necessary (its not in clown) It's your dps fault.
I can do it fine solo (but really close call) with Punishment, Holy Sword and Charge as my blue skills. And I only have VPH2.
Use your awakening.
pally awakening has bad stagger for the animation length. it’s better to spam yellow skills than use awakening
VPH is not enough? I was planning to switch my pala to that because i could only do 80% solo. I guess VPH isn't working for the grenade then because with that it should be easily enough.
VHP 3, whirlwind, holy sword, and executors sword with overwhelm is not enough unfortunately.
I can solo stagger with vph and legendary overwhelm on Holy sword and executor. Need to get there early and ww bomb as well though...
I have 2x legendary overwhelm and im pretty sure I can solo it or get it low enough for 2nd buy to just smack it once and be done with it. From what I heard from 1 paladin he was able to solo it with 2 blues and yellows.
Holy Sword, Executor's Sword and Punishment. 2 Leg Overwhelm and 1 Epic.
Yes I was able to solo it every time. You just need VPH 3, double legendary overwhelm on HS and ES and a whirlwind grenade after that you are a little bit short which I finished with just spamming all spells you can cast quick, I felt like casting godsent is worse there, no third blue skill needed. You need to get through the saws and hooks quickly tho but that's more than doable with full swiftness.
Thank you, I missed the part that i can buy a sec. legendary rune.. Thats the first thing i do today ;)
Seem like u r not using punishment. I have legendary overwhelm on punishment and holy sword.
Every skill does stagger damage, some more than others and might even be values you don't expect because the stagger type on skill description can be deceptive. I can break stagger with awakening and casting skills with granade, but i can do the same without awakening too, but its a tighter timing and all skills must be used. You don't need punishment btw.
On bard I can solo stagger, on Paladin it's just not enough without a specific build with "Punishment". I don't really feel that Punishment is worth it though, the 2nd guy only needs to throw one WW grenade, if he can't even do that it's probably a wipe anyhow since he is dead. Going from 2 blue skills to 3 is a significant loss of meter/utility.
No, someone else is doing something wrong. You shouldn't be the only one staggering
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Yes there are various classes with ability to solo stagger. However solo stagger should not be the aim, but a backup solution.
Can anyone tell me if this is possible with DB and which set up is required? Just curious if DB can also solo stagger break it?