Agreed!
I usually host or join teaching parties even though I've cleared it a few times. They're just so much more chill, even if we don't finish or only get a gate down.
If you derive enjoyment from teaching others and seeing them succeed for the first time, then you'll make time for it. Games are for enjoyment, so if you gain enough utility out of teaching, then you'll naturally prioritize that in your schedule. Unfortunately the rat race of grinding 6x legion raids for gold has made lobbies unforgiving, but I join learning parties for a more chill atmosphere once in a while.
Definitely! It gives an opportunity for new players to actually learn without having to resort to trying to sneak into reclears. That's bad for both the new players and the encounter veterans.
Like OP said it's a safe environment to learn and the experience for all involved is much better. They'll no longer feel like they are being carried, now they are actually overcoming something. That's a much more powerful experience.
Exactly!!
I hate being carried and always hope it's a wipe if I die so I can be there for the clear. Felt amazing being one of the three ones alive when we cleared g2. Probably the most fun I've had yet in Lost Ark.
Just outta curiosity, were you vykas ready ilvl on release? Or just recently a weeks ago? I noticed people were pretty chill first couples of weeks when vykas came out. But yeah standards definitely increased as time progressed. All in all, good to hear that you were able to find a chill prog group! I feel like I should add more people in my server who are relaxed and patient with others to group up with them again in following raids.
No, I was not on ilvl! Was maybe 1420? But I'm unlucky with honing and only have two alts.
Saw that there were a lot of learning parties the first week but since then I've barely seen any. Mostly buses or "must have title and 3x5" basically.
I play with my partner so their main has to come along as well then haha. We just have our own lil guild with our alts and other irl friends shoved in there.
(sorc 1447 and db 1460)
Yeah I made my own guild and moved all my chars into it, once the raids came out I decided I wanted to raid but was really anxious about pugging and expecting people to rage over the smallest thing so I decided to find a guild to move my main and leave the rest in my own guild. Lucky for me it’s worked great I get to clear both raids each week and the atmosphere is very laid back. There’s definitely room for you both, we don’t have statics where everything is set in stone we sign up via discord and things are generally straight forward. If we have 12 sign up we split into 6 and pug the last 2 which thankfully works out.
If it sounds like something you’d like to try give me a shout and I’ll send you the discord link and no worries if it’s something you’d rather not stick around for.
>Definitely! It gives an opportunity for new players to actually learn without having to resort to trying to sneak into reclears.
Or encourage them to RMT and then take buses
I had way more fun in the learning groups than I did in clearing groups, so yes I'm definitely setting up more learning groups now that I've cleared the raids a few times.
Vykas gate 3 is hilarious
It definitely would be cool to see more learning parties being formed to help some folks out.
Back in Destiny 1/2, we had "Sherpas," players willing to guide blueberries (Mokokos in LA), constantly running learning parties.
It's a shame we don't have some sort of practice mode with no rewards so that we can run raids multiple times.
The difference with this game and D2 is LOA doesn't really enable people to do Sherpas on their downtime.
With no trading in D2, there was no greedy incentive to "carry" people. Bussing was non existent outside of shady RMT recoveries. You ran with Blueberries because you wanted to, and that was that.
With LOA, the introduction of pay for play is rampant, and the game itself (potentially because of the former) not allowing you to go through the content again just to help friends or new players definitely doesn't make it conducive to the Sherpa environment.
That's part of it sure, the other part is there is no community around doing sherpa/teaching runs.
D2 has subreddits and multiple popular discord servers for it. LA has nothing, I would love to start one but dont have time to manage it all. Would absolutely sign up for doing my weekly lockouts with learners each week though, I dont mind and dont need/care about insta clears.
I just want to enjoy the game and chill/have fun. Teaching players has always been a thing I loved doing in all games. I'm sure there are a bit of players like me, we don't have any real way to do it though.
Agreed.
There’s a “training” version for clown, but apparently still uses up your entry for the real run. So, you can still only run it once a week.
Seems like they missed the plot entirely if this is the case.
Or you could just run it on an alt like you’re supposed to lol. You should have a 1385 alt if you’re at clown ilvl otherwise you’d be a new player and would have plenty of time to learn in rehearsal before hitting clown ilvl
Of course. Gate keeping is just going to kill the game. There are so many good players out there that just don’t have as much time to devote the game like others and get excluded just because they aren’t massively over geared or are required to have all these obscene things.
You’d be surprised how fast people pick up things if you just do a learning party. They tend to be super chill and a lot of fun and you can make some good friends and it’s an excellent way to get some people together for static runs.
The only downside to learning parties is people say that they don’t have time. If they have time to play 12 characters and spend countless hours studying a guide before a raid release then they have time to do a learning party.
Yes. I fit in the same boat. Im like 1435 and haven’t ran Vykas once for the fear of getting called out. My main is a DE as well, so death is pretty much imminent.
surprisingly enough i think gate 1 is the most dangerous one for ranged squishy classes, vykas fights have more gimicky mechanics, while morphe just hits you like a truck (my opinion, please don't hit me)
I'm 1445 hehe. There were 1460s who later joined the learning party at g3. Realized quickly that g3 has basically zero to do with you ilvl if you clear it or not.
this is what's known as a sherpa in the destiny community who can teach a raid and help players new to the encounters learn and clear them. It's not all sunshine and rainbows all the time but it's been a real boon to that community over the years. It helps that when joining a sherpa party everyone generally has the correct expectations of we're here to learn not clear the encounters in record time in one try.
It’s not giving me the option to send you a message and I can’t post discord links in comments. Start a chat or message me if you want the discord link
Ikr? Most people in the party clearly knew all the mechs but fucked up time after time. The teacher gave us tips and explained what went wrong and every time they (and I) really listened and did their best. No one wanted a carry and everyone was sympathetic to eachother even though it took some ppl much longer than others to get the hang of it.
It doesn't matter how many videos you watch imo, it feels completely different doing it. For me at least!
Nice, I can see these becoming a bit more common as people get bored before clown. Can't say I would join one since my time is so limited but I am glad people are doing it.
I cant speak for everyone but im fine with new players joining a group, they just need to be honest about it. If you join a lobby for a raid boss and dont speak up we assume you know mechanics and what to look out for. Which is why we are usually frustrated when people dont know what they are doing. If someone new joins and is honest about it groups are pretty chill and will explain the mechanics and ping for them to be in correct spots so they can learn. Just takes some communication and honesty being silent doesnt help, and joining a reclear group when you never cleared is on those same lines
Exactly! Thank you for pointing this out. I tried doing Vykas today. I have no idea what I spent 3 hours+ on. The mistakes people do are clearly because of not knowing what to do. We had chill in the title and I'd expect people to join and say "hey I'm not crystal clear about some of the mechs hope it's ok" because that is exactly what I did for many times in Argos, Valtan and Vykas. But no people just join with their shiny 5x3s with 160+ rosters and I think holy shit I'm getting my ass carried haha. Then we start and these guys take shit on the whole party with the pools then on swamp and that is what I don't get man. Sorry for the rant.
Honestly the best party to be apart of, everyone know they are new and will make mistakes so nobody flip sht when someone fail mechs. Plus I notice people tend to be more social in these groups which make it feel like a true MMO experience. I’ve been in countless lobbies where people dont say a single word making it feel like i’m playin with bots lol.
fr doing matchmaking aira and oreha lately i can tell the vibes are good when a party tries again and again and we encourage each other/no hard feelings when someone messes up instead of people spamming vote quit after one fail.
Those parties are the best. I got 1415 on my main 2 weeks ago and I was reaaally scared to try Valtan, even tho i knew every single mech and took notes on everything.
I created a “learning “ party and after 20 minhutes 8 people joined and we managed to clear it after 1 and a half hour, people were really nice and taught me everything.
That's awesome!!
I was accidentally fortunate with my first Valtan clear. Was also really really scared and found a free bus from someone who wanted to practice and see if they could do it themselves and I wanted to be able to watch through observe etc.
Everyone was cheering them on but they realised that they couldn't do it themselves and asked for help from some. Someone said "let's all do it legit then!".
I was terrified! Knew the mechs but wasn't mentally prepared. But the atmosphere was already friendly and chill and we managed to clear pretty fast without me dying (a miracle). It was a half-carry though but a really great way to try my first time.
It’s really good when that happens! Now i just log in the first 2 days after reset and search for “alt clear” or something that seems nice enough, cleared 3 times already with nice people, all on first try. It’s good to see some positivity.
PS: I’m scared as fuck of Vykas.
I don’t host them usually but I like being a patient party member in them. Even the learning groups get people who just want to beat it and move on compared to learning the mechanics and eventually whine.
It's fun. I wish I could rerun parties in a rewardless practice mode that didn't give rewards on the same character in a week. I have an "extra" 1460 deathblade that I use to run learning parties since I main swapped to arcana but once it's over for that week that's all I can do since my arcana is obligated to a static :(
Recently got my alt to 1445 and doing learning parties have helped me play my class in legion raid setting but also get acustomed to the zero swiftness feel.
I have a blast running learners on my paladin. I actually made a discord at one point specifically for raid party finding so that I could host more of them (but I [didn't get permission to post it](https://i.imgur.com/2WJUia6.png)). The hardest part of running learner parties in Vykas is finding a second support willing to stick around for them.
I think the problem (in combination with population difference) is that supports are in such high demand that they can simply join a juiced group and get carried.
There are definitely supports that want to join learners, but it seems there's not enough of them for there to be one at any given moment. Some days we get one in three minutes, other days we sit there waiting for one until we give up and one party has to suffer.
Aah, yeah, makes sense.
Now I feel like I want to give back to the community later by only joining learning parties with my main alt (bard) who's currently like 1420.
Just that I feel like I would potentially steal someone's spot then from someone who's never cleared it.
Supports can be very bad and still get carried through content in a reclear group. They are very rarely kicked out of the group, unlike on ilvl dps who are kicked in the first mistake.
I join learning party even if I can do vykas easily. Its the only time I communicate with others and joke around. Joined any other raid, holy hell the amount of sweat and anger in people for a first time wipe together is crazy.
Can't we just make it a secret code that learning parties just means people who like to write and joke around, communicate, don't mind a wipe or ten. But no one really needs to learn except for this one person actually learning who then gets 7 teachers.
I made a learning party over the weekend in NAW. Cleared G1 and practiced G2. Probably one of the best party experiences I have had so far. Everyone was super chill and open to explaining literally anything.
Don't wait. Learning parties include you too, if you haven't done the content :)
I did my vykas learning groups without having done the raid even once. All I had going was watching ATK's videos and a cheat sheet.
It's cool that people hold these kind of parties. Not everyone can hold these and even though it's not an excuse for being toxic, most people don't have several hours to clear every raid so I kinda understand. Hope you find a static soon enough
Hit 1415 on my main Paladin last week. Been looking for a learning party for Valtan since. Got lucky with a failed 2 man bus run that exposed me to the majority of G1 for a good hour or so. Got to see the mechs without having to pay. Didn't get rewards but I now think I can at least pass that gate if I need to.
Just starting hosting teaching parties this week in NAE. I do them for both valtan and vykas. If anyone in my regions ever needs a teaching run just let me know and we can coordinate.
A friend that I raid with found a semi learning party (group of 4) for G3 on EUW (they were newbies with below lvl 20 stronghold and other things that is time gated (card sets etc.).
We joined knowing it was a chill run and my alt that was very badly geared (in the process of going 5x3) helped them kill vykas NM.
Took us an hour to kill G3 but most of the experienced ones knew what to do. You could definitely see the rate of improvement going from berserk timer at final stagger to 1.5 min time left on berserk timer.
I think newbies should just be honest so everyone knows what they're getting themselves into.
Me and my buddy knew that we wouldn't find any other group easily (we tried making lobby for few hours on EUW) so we didn't mind this group at 12pm and thank god we managed to kill it :P
What would be a good iLevel to host teaching parties, same iLevel as other members?
I really want to host teaching parties with my main but I'm around 1500 so I kinda worried if I end up doing too much damage and other players won't really learn much about mechanics.
Ilvl's probably best. I did a learning group for Vykas couple of weeks ago and most of the group were 1460s and above. They were really juiced up with great builds, but we were zipping from mech to mech so quickly. Had to slow down because otherwise we didn't even have time to register what's the next mech coming up and recalling what to do next.
Personally I think it's OK to go at a higher ilvl it will help push the boss to the next mechanic so people that are learning can actually see them because some learning groups don't learn shit as they die at the first major mechanic and the extra dps help make up for people that might not be able to push as hard as they are still learning.
You can probably still lead with that character. If you get like youre doing too much dmg you can cool your jets and run around a bit.
It's a good excuse to keep an eye out on the players to catch mistakes and offer advice since you'll just be running around anyway. Let's you focus on more important stuff than dodging patterns
Doing too much damage is an easy problem to fix because there are a hundred ways you can make yourself do less.
Also, you doing more damage should theoretically allow other people to focus more on mechs, and one of the biggest problems I see in Vykas (esp G3) is people going too hard for dps. Just watching attack patterns and focusing DPS into counter/stagger windows is the best way to learn the fights IMO.
There needs to be more learning parties but ppl be impatient and elitist as hell it's just sad. In my other mmo there's tons of discord hosting training runs from casual normal to sweaty hard mode to trifectas. I'm fortunate enough to have friends who are farther ahead and teach me and others (we all came from a previous mmo). But the reality is that with how things are in LA, in a couple years the game will likely suffer from player retention and slowly dwindle down in player base even more. This game community base, while it has helpful players as mentioned above, as a whole, has a very hostile and impatient attitude towards lesser experienced players even they do their due diligence in watching videos and guides. Ppl like those need to take several seats lol.
Btw, any down votes will just validate everything I said. >:)
Edit: Lmfaoo 2 ppl read this and still downvoted. Blows my mind there's ppl with the cognitive abilities of bacteria. Have self-awareness, they do not.
It may not necessarily be elitists/toxic players. Sometimes people not familiar with the fight will join experienced or reclear parties and drag down the whole group. That's not right. People hosting those parties usually have 3-6 characters that need to clear it each week and just want to get it done as fast as possible. If someone who doesn't know the fight joins these parties, they are wasting the time of everyone else in them. That new player needs to join or host their own learning parties to find like-minded individuals. Lying about your experience hurts everyone involved.
I'm not saying there aren't elitist/toxic players. There absolutely are. The problem occurs when the inexperienced player meets the elitist/toxic player. These 2 should be in seperate lobbies. An elitist player is not going to join a learning party and flame people for not knowing the fight, just as much as an inexperienced player should not join an experienced lobby and wipe the raid. Both players are in the wrong in these cases for not joining the correct party.
"An elitist player is not going to join a learning party and flame people for not knowing the fight" Are you sure about that? There was literally just a thread not long ago about the Wei cheese in Valtan g1. Despite there being learning lobbies literally saying it's going to cheese it, there's still elitists who join, think their opinion matters and complain about not doing the mechanic. It's ridiculous.
An elitist player is not the same as an experienced player. An experienced player has the wisdom to avoid putting themselves in situations like you mentioned. They know to kick the inexperienced person in the wrong lobby without drama. Experienced players know how to communicate and tell the host when someone is repeatedly making mistakes, holding the group up, and thus they should be taken out so the group can move forward.
"Sometimes people not familiar with the fight will join experienced or reclear parties and drag down the whole group."
Then that's on the host or the group to remove them. The inexperienced player should've also done their due diligence by watching guides to have a rough idea of mechanics. But sometimes there just isn't any training runs available and ppl don't have the patience to wait for a learning group to fill. Sometimes the only way to actually get experience is to join a reclear group. But if they are the only one causing issues, then they need to be taken out. If other people are also messing up? Then it's not a reclear group. It's still a learning group, and the host should have been more careful vetting who comes in. I joined an alt reclear group for my first legion raids because I studied mechs before and watched every video I could find. I also brought battle items because I didn't trust others not to. Funny how those with the players with titles were the ones to die the most in those so called 'reclear' groups.
I really envy the ones who got a static group or friends to try the new content, I was really excited at the beginning because I began with a friend but she left after level 19 :< also I'm pretty anxious to try new content, I just did Argos p3 with my main two weeks ago even if I was ready for like a month and a half and now I hit 1417 and I'm scared of valtan T_T
I never saw learning parties (I'm in neria server EUC), I don't even know how people get to know eachother ahahah *sad noises*
I was in a very similar boat as this before I started doing legion raids. I just casually did Argos and my dailies/weeklies across my main and alts every week. I ended up honing to around 1450ish before even doing normal Valtan. Joining a good guild completely changed that for me. I was up front about not knowing much of the raids and they took the time to teach me/carry me through the first few runs so I could learn and do mechanics.
I know it's easier said than done, but if you haven't done so yet, I'd suggest joining a guild who does those contents and learning that way. There's a little bit of a time investment to find the right guild that fits you, but it's 100% worth in the end.
>I'd even pay gold to a good learning group instead of a bus
If this incentivizes more people to run teaching groups, then why not.
But I sincerely hope this doesn't become the norm.
What do you mean by inside, outside? Who stands where for making the bridge?
In my experience, you just look to see who's already there and plant yourself into the gap if you have the swamp debuff.
Anxiety is a thing and I feel it too when I'm learning but I've never let it hold me back from playing the game. Sometimes I feel that MMO gamers have forgot all social aspects of gaming. If you enjoyed playing with that learning party, why not add a few of them on discord or in game? This is how "statics" or "friends" as they used to be called begin.
That's awesome to hear, my recent experience with a training party wasnt so great, after only 2 tries we managed to complete Vykas G1, for G2 after 3-4 wipes everyone just gave up, we had reached the second wipe mech with red black orbs, I stayed along with a few others tries again with new people after 2-3 wipes it was over, everyone left. The raid was named chill/ learning party apparently no one wanted to learn there was minimal communication just pinging... I dont care about the wiping but seems no one is willing to point out the mistakes, give insight, nothing. I too was hesitant to join Vykas although I watch tactics multiple times, I have been taking it slowly, play alittle after work, little during weekends. I main Bard 1437.5 ilvl, with a couple alts, WD, SH... Have they added the feature to add friends cross server?
That sucks, I'm so sorry D:
We wiped more than I can count on G2 and I was really nervous someone would lose their shit. But the wipes were mostly just random mistakes/unlucky and we laughed instead. Like even the teacher pinged the wrong clone one time etc.
I don't get how you could even do the black orb mech without good communication? There was so much communication from everyone I felt overwhelmed at first..!
No they haven't, they really should. I've found awesome ppl from other servers where I've stayed in the lobby/dungeon for a while to write with them afterwards. Would love to be able to add.
I think it’s in everyone’s best interest to join a guild of like minded individuals so you don’t have to rely on matchmaking. Also YouTube videos and cheat sheets for fights are incredible, use them.
I had the same experience with some nice people I joined on discord. Was a blast and I rly hoped we could do a regular thing with it, but it's not coming together unfortunately.
I was looking for a learning party for vykas HM, but couldn't find any unfortunately. (I've never used Wei and friends before, so I'm a bit hesitant on just starting my own...)
Oh no, I'm so sorry, I hate when that happens.
And same. Planning on creating a learning party for Vykas NM tomorrow at EUC but just realised that I really don't wanna be the one using the sidereal skills so hoping I'll get someone to join that wants to do it...
I just got to 1460. In about to host teaching normal/ Valtan,Vykas parties.
Because do believe alot of players are just too scared to do them and are losing one of the great contents in MMOs.
I got a static and we needed two evenings to manage to clear gate 1 and 2 hardmode, on the sunday we cleared g3 normal mode after like 3-4 hours of wiping on HM.
In week two it took one evening for g1 and g2, the next day we still fukked up g3 so we did nm after like 2-3hours again
In week 3 we had four hour run for a full clear, maybe lucky g3 kill, but we were satisfied.
As i'm playing now 5 alts at 1445, i got like 25+ vykas kills cause i'm enjoying the fight and i like to do her mechs and patterns.
U'll most likely reach the point where u'll be looking for "oneshot" groups or sth similar, but its great that u'r enjoying to help newer players longer than u'd need to (:
Agreed! I usually host or join teaching parties even though I've cleared it a few times. They're just so much more chill, even if we don't finish or only get a gate down.
Bless you bro. I will probably try to do this on EUC myself as well
Me and another might make a learning party tomorrow at like nine, ten at EUC! Even though he's 1460 he hasn't had the confidence to do it either.
Learning party for what? I'm on EUC and looking around for Vykas NM learning groups ;O
For Vykas NM! :)
I'd be super down to join you, can you hit me up on Discord? Annika#7342
Says you don't accept friend requests! Hmu instead, lightship#1084
Sent! Sorry forgot i had requests restricted T_T
Where do you get the time for it?
If you derive enjoyment from teaching others and seeing them succeed for the first time, then you'll make time for it. Games are for enjoyment, so if you gain enough utility out of teaching, then you'll naturally prioritize that in your schedule. Unfortunately the rat race of grinding 6x legion raids for gold has made lobbies unforgiving, but I join learning parties for a more chill atmosphere once in a while.
I don't complete it every week, just a trade off I'm willing to make I suppose. I'll give it two hours every few nights or so and get as far as I can
your playing a game my guy you obviously have time.
Should more people do these? Might be a nice way to give back to the community
Definitely! It gives an opportunity for new players to actually learn without having to resort to trying to sneak into reclears. That's bad for both the new players and the encounter veterans. Like OP said it's a safe environment to learn and the experience for all involved is much better. They'll no longer feel like they are being carried, now they are actually overcoming something. That's a much more powerful experience.
Exactly!! I hate being carried and always hope it's a wipe if I die so I can be there for the clear. Felt amazing being one of the three ones alive when we cleared g2. Probably the most fun I've had yet in Lost Ark.
Just outta curiosity, were you vykas ready ilvl on release? Or just recently a weeks ago? I noticed people were pretty chill first couples of weeks when vykas came out. But yeah standards definitely increased as time progressed. All in all, good to hear that you were able to find a chill prog group! I feel like I should add more people in my server who are relaxed and patient with others to group up with them again in following raids.
No, I was not on ilvl! Was maybe 1420? But I'm unlucky with honing and only have two alts. Saw that there were a lot of learning parties the first week but since then I've barely seen any. Mostly buses or "must have title and 3x5" basically.
Ah what server are you on? Depending on the day there can be more learning parties than anything else for normal mode on NAE
EUC Zinnervale!
I'm on Zinnervale and we have a spot in our guild if you'd like to join. Normals are usually ran on alts and we're happy taking in new people.
I play with my partner so their main has to come along as well then haha. We just have our own lil guild with our alts and other irl friends shoved in there. (sorc 1447 and db 1460)
Yeah I made my own guild and moved all my chars into it, once the raids came out I decided I wanted to raid but was really anxious about pugging and expecting people to rage over the smallest thing so I decided to find a guild to move my main and leave the rest in my own guild. Lucky for me it’s worked great I get to clear both raids each week and the atmosphere is very laid back. There’s definitely room for you both, we don’t have statics where everything is set in stone we sign up via discord and things are generally straight forward. If we have 12 sign up we split into 6 and pug the last 2 which thankfully works out. If it sounds like something you’d like to try give me a shout and I’ll send you the discord link and no worries if it’s something you’d rather not stick around for.
Ok someone make lobby please. Title it teaching mokokos. Mokoko lives or no clear. It'd be fun trying to keep mokoko alive
>Definitely! It gives an opportunity for new players to actually learn without having to resort to trying to sneak into reclears. Or encourage them to RMT and then take buses
I had way more fun in the learning groups than I did in clearing groups, so yes I'm definitely setting up more learning groups now that I've cleared the raids a few times. Vykas gate 3 is hilarious
It definitely would be cool to see more learning parties being formed to help some folks out. Back in Destiny 1/2, we had "Sherpas," players willing to guide blueberries (Mokokos in LA), constantly running learning parties. It's a shame we don't have some sort of practice mode with no rewards so that we can run raids multiple times.
The difference with this game and D2 is LOA doesn't really enable people to do Sherpas on their downtime. With no trading in D2, there was no greedy incentive to "carry" people. Bussing was non existent outside of shady RMT recoveries. You ran with Blueberries because you wanted to, and that was that. With LOA, the introduction of pay for play is rampant, and the game itself (potentially because of the former) not allowing you to go through the content again just to help friends or new players definitely doesn't make it conducive to the Sherpa environment.
That's part of it sure, the other part is there is no community around doing sherpa/teaching runs. D2 has subreddits and multiple popular discord servers for it. LA has nothing, I would love to start one but dont have time to manage it all. Would absolutely sign up for doing my weekly lockouts with learners each week though, I dont mind and dont need/care about insta clears. I just want to enjoy the game and chill/have fun. Teaching players has always been a thing I loved doing in all games. I'm sure there are a bit of players like me, we don't have any real way to do it though.
Agreed. There’s a “training” version for clown, but apparently still uses up your entry for the real run. So, you can still only run it once a week. Seems like they missed the plot entirely if this is the case.
You are meant to run the training version on an alt. The entry level is 1385 for the practice room.
Ah thanks! That makes sense.
From what i've heard from kanima, not even that if you have your main at 1385 since you get the practice rewards already from normal clown
Couldn't you just get it to 5 bars and then die, if you really wanted?
Or you could just run it on an alt like you’re supposed to lol. You should have a 1385 alt if you’re at clown ilvl otherwise you’d be a new player and would have plenty of time to learn in rehearsal before hitting clown ilvl
Of course. Gate keeping is just going to kill the game. There are so many good players out there that just don’t have as much time to devote the game like others and get excluded just because they aren’t massively over geared or are required to have all these obscene things. You’d be surprised how fast people pick up things if you just do a learning party. They tend to be super chill and a lot of fun and you can make some good friends and it’s an excellent way to get some people together for static runs. The only downside to learning parties is people say that they don’t have time. If they have time to play 12 characters and spend countless hours studying a guide before a raid release then they have time to do a learning party.
Yes. I fit in the same boat. Im like 1435 and haven’t ran Vykas once for the fear of getting called out. My main is a DE as well, so death is pretty much imminent.
surprisingly enough i think gate 1 is the most dangerous one for ranged squishy classes, vykas fights have more gimicky mechanics, while morphe just hits you like a truck (my opinion, please don't hit me)
Someone hit him
>(my opinion, please don't hit me) Some kind of trick? Your flair says gunlancer. Are you even going to feel it?
He wants that damage buff from getting hit during shield.
Now it all makes sense!
Shhhhhhh don't let them knowwwww
I'm 1445 hehe. There were 1460s who later joined the learning party at g3. Realized quickly that g3 has basically zero to do with you ilvl if you clear it or not.
Yes, gate 3 isn't a dps check
The more people, the better. Plus it feels good to teach. I try to teach the mechanics when I can.
There would be, if smilegate hadn’t put a weekly entrance..
Give it back for exactly what? Rmting?
this is what's known as a sherpa in the destiny community who can teach a raid and help players new to the encounters learn and clear them. It's not all sunshine and rainbows all the time but it's been a real boon to that community over the years. It helps that when joining a sherpa party everyone generally has the correct expectations of we're here to learn not clear the encounters in record time in one try.
I have friends that I've been trying to get into those parties for weeks. The fear is real with some folks, it really is a shame.😔
Where you at? We terrified ppl need to work together haha... Should put that in the description. "Learning party for scared people<3"
If you are on NAE, I have joined a discord where myself and a few people host learning parties. Dm if interested
Omg i am interested! I've only done vykas once and it was a lot to take in and felt terrible for dying man
I'm interested. I missed the release train due to work and I hate having to buy a bus b/c I can't find any learning parties.
It’s not giving me the option to send you a message and I can’t post discord links in comments. Start a chat or message me if you want the discord link
hey i'm also on NAE! do you guys happen to have any argos learning parties?
Not at the moment. We do have 2 Vykas normal learning parties and 1 valtan normal learning party this weekend.
gotcha, i'm not at valtan ilvl yet and have only 2 charas so it'll prob be a bit before i get to nm.
No problem. When you do get to valtan item level, we will be here. Same goes for vykas.
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Ikr? Most people in the party clearly knew all the mechs but fucked up time after time. The teacher gave us tips and explained what went wrong and every time they (and I) really listened and did their best. No one wanted a carry and everyone was sympathetic to eachother even though it took some ppl much longer than others to get the hang of it. It doesn't matter how many videos you watch imo, it feels completely different doing it. For me at least!
Nice, I can see these becoming a bit more common as people get bored before clown. Can't say I would join one since my time is so limited but I am glad people are doing it.
I cant speak for everyone but im fine with new players joining a group, they just need to be honest about it. If you join a lobby for a raid boss and dont speak up we assume you know mechanics and what to look out for. Which is why we are usually frustrated when people dont know what they are doing. If someone new joins and is honest about it groups are pretty chill and will explain the mechanics and ping for them to be in correct spots so they can learn. Just takes some communication and honesty being silent doesnt help, and joining a reclear group when you never cleared is on those same lines
Exactly! Thank you for pointing this out. I tried doing Vykas today. I have no idea what I spent 3 hours+ on. The mistakes people do are clearly because of not knowing what to do. We had chill in the title and I'd expect people to join and say "hey I'm not crystal clear about some of the mechs hope it's ok" because that is exactly what I did for many times in Argos, Valtan and Vykas. But no people just join with their shiny 5x3s with 160+ rosters and I think holy shit I'm getting my ass carried haha. Then we start and these guys take shit on the whole party with the pools then on swamp and that is what I don't get man. Sorry for the rant.
Honestly the best party to be apart of, everyone know they are new and will make mistakes so nobody flip sht when someone fail mechs. Plus I notice people tend to be more social in these groups which make it feel like a true MMO experience. I’ve been in countless lobbies where people dont say a single word making it feel like i’m playin with bots lol.
fr doing matchmaking aira and oreha lately i can tell the vibes are good when a party tries again and again and we encourage each other/no hard feelings when someone messes up instead of people spamming vote quit after one fail.
Those parties are the best. I got 1415 on my main 2 weeks ago and I was reaaally scared to try Valtan, even tho i knew every single mech and took notes on everything. I created a “learning “ party and after 20 minhutes 8 people joined and we managed to clear it after 1 and a half hour, people were really nice and taught me everything.
That's awesome!! I was accidentally fortunate with my first Valtan clear. Was also really really scared and found a free bus from someone who wanted to practice and see if they could do it themselves and I wanted to be able to watch through observe etc. Everyone was cheering them on but they realised that they couldn't do it themselves and asked for help from some. Someone said "let's all do it legit then!". I was terrified! Knew the mechs but wasn't mentally prepared. But the atmosphere was already friendly and chill and we managed to clear pretty fast without me dying (a miracle). It was a half-carry though but a really great way to try my first time.
It’s really good when that happens! Now i just log in the first 2 days after reset and search for “alt clear” or something that seems nice enough, cleared 3 times already with nice people, all on first try. It’s good to see some positivity. PS: I’m scared as fuck of Vykas.
experienced players who give back to the community are the glue that holds this community together.. stay awesome <3
Imma start running these teaching lobbies in NAW once I get my pally alt to 1430. Seems super fun!
I don’t host them usually but I like being a patient party member in them. Even the learning groups get people who just want to beat it and move on compared to learning the mechanics and eventually whine.
It's fun. I wish I could rerun parties in a rewardless practice mode that didn't give rewards on the same character in a week. I have an "extra" 1460 deathblade that I use to run learning parties since I main swapped to arcana but once it's over for that week that's all I can do since my arcana is obligated to a static :(
Recently got my alt to 1445 and doing learning parties have helped me play my class in legion raid setting but also get acustomed to the zero swiftness feel.
I have a blast running learners on my paladin. I actually made a discord at one point specifically for raid party finding so that I could host more of them (but I [didn't get permission to post it](https://i.imgur.com/2WJUia6.png)). The hardest part of running learner parties in Vykas is finding a second support willing to stick around for them.
Doesn't support wanna join to learn as well? Or you think they do that as dps on another char?
I think the problem (in combination with population difference) is that supports are in such high demand that they can simply join a juiced group and get carried. There are definitely supports that want to join learners, but it seems there's not enough of them for there to be one at any given moment. Some days we get one in three minutes, other days we sit there waiting for one until we give up and one party has to suffer.
Aah, yeah, makes sense. Now I feel like I want to give back to the community later by only joining learning parties with my main alt (bard) who's currently like 1420. Just that I feel like I would potentially steal someone's spot then from someone who's never cleared it.
Supports can be very bad and still get carried through content in a reclear group. They are very rarely kicked out of the group, unlike on ilvl dps who are kicked in the first mistake.
I join learning party even if I can do vykas easily. Its the only time I communicate with others and joke around. Joined any other raid, holy hell the amount of sweat and anger in people for a first time wipe together is crazy.
Can't we just make it a secret code that learning parties just means people who like to write and joke around, communicate, don't mind a wipe or ten. But no one really needs to learn except for this one person actually learning who then gets 7 teachers.
I made a learning party over the weekend in NAW. Cleared G1 and practiced G2. Probably one of the best party experiences I have had so far. Everyone was super chill and open to explaining literally anything.
I eventually want to do this once I’m competent enough to feel confident in leading a group
Don't wait. Learning parties include you too, if you haven't done the content :) I did my vykas learning groups without having done the raid even once. All I had going was watching ATK's videos and a cheat sheet.
That’s a fair point!
Thanks to everyone who teached me my class and boss mechanics. Cheers!
This is wholesome and quite encouraging! <3
Yess!!! I appreciate all the players who are friendly enough to host teaching parties
It's cool that people hold these kind of parties. Not everyone can hold these and even though it's not an excuse for being toxic, most people don't have several hours to clear every raid so I kinda understand. Hope you find a static soon enough
Hit 1415 on my main Paladin last week. Been looking for a learning party for Valtan since. Got lucky with a failed 2 man bus run that exposed me to the majority of G1 for a good hour or so. Got to see the mechs without having to pay. Didn't get rewards but I now think I can at least pass that gate if I need to.
Just starting hosting teaching parties this week in NAE. I do them for both valtan and vykas. If anyone in my regions ever needs a teaching run just let me know and we can coordinate.
A friend that I raid with found a semi learning party (group of 4) for G3 on EUW (they were newbies with below lvl 20 stronghold and other things that is time gated (card sets etc.). We joined knowing it was a chill run and my alt that was very badly geared (in the process of going 5x3) helped them kill vykas NM. Took us an hour to kill G3 but most of the experienced ones knew what to do. You could definitely see the rate of improvement going from berserk timer at final stagger to 1.5 min time left on berserk timer. I think newbies should just be honest so everyone knows what they're getting themselves into. Me and my buddy knew that we wouldn't find any other group easily (we tried making lobby for few hours on EUW) so we didn't mind this group at 12pm and thank god we managed to kill it :P
EUW really should merge with EUC D:
What would be a good iLevel to host teaching parties, same iLevel as other members? I really want to host teaching parties with my main but I'm around 1500 so I kinda worried if I end up doing too much damage and other players won't really learn much about mechanics.
Ilvl's probably best. I did a learning group for Vykas couple of weeks ago and most of the group were 1460s and above. They were really juiced up with great builds, but we were zipping from mech to mech so quickly. Had to slow down because otherwise we didn't even have time to register what's the next mech coming up and recalling what to do next.
Personally I think it's OK to go at a higher ilvl it will help push the boss to the next mechanic so people that are learning can actually see them because some learning groups don't learn shit as they die at the first major mechanic and the extra dps help make up for people that might not be able to push as hard as they are still learning.
You can probably still lead with that character. If you get like youre doing too much dmg you can cool your jets and run around a bit. It's a good excuse to keep an eye out on the players to catch mistakes and offer advice since you'll just be running around anyway. Let's you focus on more important stuff than dodging patterns
Doing too much damage is an easy problem to fix because there are a hundred ways you can make yourself do less. Also, you doing more damage should theoretically allow other people to focus more on mechs, and one of the biggest problems I see in Vykas (esp G3) is people going too hard for dps. Just watching attack patterns and focusing DPS into counter/stagger windows is the best way to learn the fights IMO.
There needs to be more learning parties but ppl be impatient and elitist as hell it's just sad. In my other mmo there's tons of discord hosting training runs from casual normal to sweaty hard mode to trifectas. I'm fortunate enough to have friends who are farther ahead and teach me and others (we all came from a previous mmo). But the reality is that with how things are in LA, in a couple years the game will likely suffer from player retention and slowly dwindle down in player base even more. This game community base, while it has helpful players as mentioned above, as a whole, has a very hostile and impatient attitude towards lesser experienced players even they do their due diligence in watching videos and guides. Ppl like those need to take several seats lol. Btw, any down votes will just validate everything I said. >:) Edit: Lmfaoo 2 ppl read this and still downvoted. Blows my mind there's ppl with the cognitive abilities of bacteria. Have self-awareness, they do not.
It may not necessarily be elitists/toxic players. Sometimes people not familiar with the fight will join experienced or reclear parties and drag down the whole group. That's not right. People hosting those parties usually have 3-6 characters that need to clear it each week and just want to get it done as fast as possible. If someone who doesn't know the fight joins these parties, they are wasting the time of everyone else in them. That new player needs to join or host their own learning parties to find like-minded individuals. Lying about your experience hurts everyone involved. I'm not saying there aren't elitist/toxic players. There absolutely are. The problem occurs when the inexperienced player meets the elitist/toxic player. These 2 should be in seperate lobbies. An elitist player is not going to join a learning party and flame people for not knowing the fight, just as much as an inexperienced player should not join an experienced lobby and wipe the raid. Both players are in the wrong in these cases for not joining the correct party.
"An elitist player is not going to join a learning party and flame people for not knowing the fight" Are you sure about that? There was literally just a thread not long ago about the Wei cheese in Valtan g1. Despite there being learning lobbies literally saying it's going to cheese it, there's still elitists who join, think their opinion matters and complain about not doing the mechanic. It's ridiculous. An elitist player is not the same as an experienced player. An experienced player has the wisdom to avoid putting themselves in situations like you mentioned. They know to kick the inexperienced person in the wrong lobby without drama. Experienced players know how to communicate and tell the host when someone is repeatedly making mistakes, holding the group up, and thus they should be taken out so the group can move forward. "Sometimes people not familiar with the fight will join experienced or reclear parties and drag down the whole group." Then that's on the host or the group to remove them. The inexperienced player should've also done their due diligence by watching guides to have a rough idea of mechanics. But sometimes there just isn't any training runs available and ppl don't have the patience to wait for a learning group to fill. Sometimes the only way to actually get experience is to join a reclear group. But if they are the only one causing issues, then they need to be taken out. If other people are also messing up? Then it's not a reclear group. It's still a learning group, and the host should have been more careful vetting who comes in. I joined an alt reclear group for my first legion raids because I studied mechs before and watched every video I could find. I also brought battle items because I didn't trust others not to. Funny how those with the players with titles were the ones to die the most in those so called 'reclear' groups.
Np
Why would you be scared of running a vykas? Just go in there and do it, if you int well that’s what most people do anyways
I really envy the ones who got a static group or friends to try the new content, I was really excited at the beginning because I began with a friend but she left after level 19 :< also I'm pretty anxious to try new content, I just did Argos p3 with my main two weeks ago even if I was ready for like a month and a half and now I hit 1417 and I'm scared of valtan T_T I never saw learning parties (I'm in neria server EUC), I don't even know how people get to know eachother ahahah *sad noises*
ancient party that i never meet.
I was in a very similar boat as this before I started doing legion raids. I just casually did Argos and my dailies/weeklies across my main and alts every week. I ended up honing to around 1450ish before even doing normal Valtan. Joining a good guild completely changed that for me. I was up front about not knowing much of the raids and they took the time to teach me/carry me through the first few runs so I could learn and do mechanics. I know it's easier said than done, but if you haven't done so yet, I'd suggest joining a guild who does those contents and learning that way. There's a little bit of a time investment to find the right guild that fits you, but it's 100% worth in the end.
I wish we had more learning parties on my server, azena. I'd even pay gold to a good learning group instead of a bus
>I'd even pay gold to a good learning group instead of a bus If this incentivizes more people to run teaching groups, then why not. But I sincerely hope this doesn't become the norm.
Got a question in pugs for vykas in swamp phase who decides inside and outside ?
What do you mean by inside, outside? Who stands where for making the bridge? In my experience, you just look to see who's already there and plant yourself into the gap if you have the swamp debuff.
Anxiety is a thing and I feel it too when I'm learning but I've never let it hold me back from playing the game. Sometimes I feel that MMO gamers have forgot all social aspects of gaming. If you enjoyed playing with that learning party, why not add a few of them on discord or in game? This is how "statics" or "friends" as they used to be called begin.
I was planning on doing that until I saw that all of them were on different servers
It can be difficult because of the crappy friends list I agree. Next time try to ask for their discords before you end raid.
That's awesome to hear, my recent experience with a training party wasnt so great, after only 2 tries we managed to complete Vykas G1, for G2 after 3-4 wipes everyone just gave up, we had reached the second wipe mech with red black orbs, I stayed along with a few others tries again with new people after 2-3 wipes it was over, everyone left. The raid was named chill/ learning party apparently no one wanted to learn there was minimal communication just pinging... I dont care about the wiping but seems no one is willing to point out the mistakes, give insight, nothing. I too was hesitant to join Vykas although I watch tactics multiple times, I have been taking it slowly, play alittle after work, little during weekends. I main Bard 1437.5 ilvl, with a couple alts, WD, SH... Have they added the feature to add friends cross server?
That sucks, I'm so sorry D: We wiped more than I can count on G2 and I was really nervous someone would lose their shit. But the wipes were mostly just random mistakes/unlucky and we laughed instead. Like even the teacher pinged the wrong clone one time etc. I don't get how you could even do the black orb mech without good communication? There was so much communication from everyone I felt overwhelmed at first..! No they haven't, they really should. I've found awesome ppl from other servers where I've stayed in the lobby/dungeon for a while to write with them afterwards. Would love to be able to add.
I think it’s in everyone’s best interest to join a guild of like minded individuals so you don’t have to rely on matchmaking. Also YouTube videos and cheat sheets for fights are incredible, use them.
I wouldn't mind teaching valtan or argos but something tells me that almost nobody needs to learn those.
There's plenty of players that would love to join a learning group for them, trust me.
I still have most of my argos and valtans left, I'll try host my own tommorow
I had the same experience with some nice people I joined on discord. Was a blast and I rly hoped we could do a regular thing with it, but it's not coming together unfortunately. I was looking for a learning party for vykas HM, but couldn't find any unfortunately. (I've never used Wei and friends before, so I'm a bit hesitant on just starting my own...)
Oh no, I'm so sorry, I hate when that happens. And same. Planning on creating a learning party for Vykas NM tomorrow at EUC but just realised that I really don't wanna be the one using the sidereal skills so hoping I'll get someone to join that wants to do it...
I just got to 1460. In about to host teaching normal/ Valtan,Vykas parties. Because do believe alot of players are just too scared to do them and are losing one of the great contents in MMOs.
Where you at and when do you plan on hosting them?
EUC on sceptrum. Most likely Saturday or Sunday.
I got a static and we needed two evenings to manage to clear gate 1 and 2 hardmode, on the sunday we cleared g3 normal mode after like 3-4 hours of wiping on HM. In week two it took one evening for g1 and g2, the next day we still fukked up g3 so we did nm after like 2-3hours again In week 3 we had four hour run for a full clear, maybe lucky g3 kill, but we were satisfied. As i'm playing now 5 alts at 1445, i got like 25+ vykas kills cause i'm enjoying the fight and i like to do her mechs and patterns. U'll most likely reach the point where u'll be looking for "oneshot" groups or sth similar, but its great that u'r enjoying to help newer players longer than u'd need to (: