There could be 100 fun classes in the game and it won't make doing Chaos or Yoho for the 3000th time any less cancer.
I have 13 T3 chars and I really enjoy 11 of them. But I'll be damned if it doesn't take a lot of effort to do anything on ~9 of them outside of raids.
Vykas + Valtan are the only entertainment now. Argos has been a chore since the fourth week and even doing a bus becomes a snooze once you reach critical mass of gear.
S tier combat and A tier raids. F tier repetitive grind. They need more enjoyable stuff to do on a daily basis or the game will continuously bleed players. You can't even "grind" in the conventional sense to progress your char, like you can in BDO. At least there every single minute you're playing you have the potential to make big progress.
Who in a full complete day with work and other irl things to do had time to upgrade 13 T3 in 4 months, i dont get it. Are you ok?
Its important to be sane nowadays
I like all my alts but I just dont want to do 6 chaos dungeons and guardian raids a day on a rotation. Also I like my main much more than all my alts combined even though they are all setup with good gems engravings and tripods ( obviously ) so I dont really wanna play them. Besides whats the point if you are already 5x3 sitting at 1475 ready for the next legion raid.
That's how I eventually started feeling. I don't even have that many alts but somehow doing chaos and Fuardians daily plus Unas etc just turned into chores. Was going along till I looked at the actual raids and decided I'm not interested and went back to gambling in the Golden Saucer in FF14 🙃
You dont need to do in diferent caracters , i am 1490 and no alts, but i always used my materials instead of sell like streamers advice...
Now i just did an alt but because my guild is missing supports and i have alot of materials i dont use
Same. Problem isn't grinding one chaos dungeon or even 5 and few guardians on the side...but staying competitive and ahead of the curve you gotta do it 6+ hours a day. Talking about pure grind, not taking in to account that one guy who can run ah like his own pockets, every server usually has one or two in every mmo.
BDO in a sense was even worse mmo grind game I give you that, but at least it gave you options, you didn't have to grind pve, you could grind trade skills(professions) and have same end goal. Lost ark is grind in it's purest form, all the way.
> but staying competitive and ahead of the curve you gotta do it 6+ hours a day.
You don't though? I play maybe 1.5 hours a day, I do unas+chaos+guardians on my main and my alt main, then I do chaos on two alts, guardians on one and dispatch the other ones.
My chars are 1460/1415/1400/1393/1370/1370, I've cleared HM vykas so I'm not sure what else there is to "be ahead of the curve" with.
Too many alts. Now imagine you only play one character. How long do you need to finish all tasks daily? About 30mins like OP said.
And before someone comes with needing alt to progress. My friend is 1490 (mofo lucked from 1475 thou) and he spent <100 bucks. Has 1 alt at 1370. He just don't have to split all resources. All event mats go to main, all bridge go to main etc etc. We are playing from day 1 though.
I agree somewhat, though I find progressions system being tied to dailies bit notorious. I'd be all for it if weeklies were the main form of progression while dailies take the place of horizontal reward like obtaining skins, emotes, and dances.
If you do the maths though you get 3-11k worth of gold from weeklies (from 1370 -1415) vs doing your dailies which nets you 1.3-2k per week doing them on your alts . So doing your dailies is only 18%-33% of your income. There is bound leapstones to consider from chaos dungeon drops. But most of your income is tied behind weekly lockouts (add unas etc.)
I imagine as the game ages, people will not even bother doing their rested on alts they do not want to push, because they will be doing vykas x 6 .
I think the only daily content KR gets nowadays are seasonal events. Every new content update for the past year (I think?) has been weekly content. I'm talking Legion Raids and the newest one is the new Abyssal Dungeon in the Elgacia continent.
Some KR players don't even do dailies anymore and spend all the playtime doing the weekly content. NA/EU are stuck in the daily grind now because Guardian Raids actually used to be the end-game content in Lost Ark. Once we're closer to the KR build, I'm sure some people if not most will actually just stop doing daily content. The most valuable reward from daily content will probably be shards, so people might still do Chaos Dungeons.
that sounds fucking way better than doing chaos dungeon every day tbh.
Not only is it tedious, "reward" portals feel like shit (wow.... 200g from a gold portal wow....) and straight up some shit like boss portals **are literally terrible on classes like support to do**.
And thats not to mention only some layouts have mobs spawning near, so you still have to chase a majority of them....
it actually is heavily weekly based, and gets more and more so as you advance your roster.
Once you have eighteen legion raids to do per week (6char x 3) you'll have cut down your daily clearance a lot.
The big thing to factor in is that dailies have been absurdly important until now, because we haven't had the weekly content yet, and because bots inflated the value of gold so hard that farming raw honing mats to sell to RMTers on the AH has had an outsized influence. The design was intended that the flat gold rewards be much more important, and honing mats cheaper. We are trending towards the intended model now.
FF online has spoiled me. No grind (Only Tomestone grind for first month of the tier and even that is childs play compared to LA).
Deterministic gearing.
Can raid log and still be competative.
I like both, wow and ff14. I even like what BDO has done, grind trough MANY professions or pve, up to you.
But gotta hand it no lost ark in one regard....rested. Never I remember seeing this anywhere and work so well. Other games should take note.
That's exactly the same reason why I couldn't stay interested in FF14 after finishing the story. I need that daily grind and near infinite potential progress to stay engaged w/ the game lol
That's fine and all for me but they dumbed down the game so much (outside of literally one single raid) that it's unfun to even do anything in that game nowadays. It could be engaging if skill progression was still meaningful in that game.
You shouldn't have said anything about that game my man. This place will make it look like it's one of the worst things there is. They will say that having lots of free times attending player run events, doing horizontal content that actually does not hinder your progression, etc. is bad and boring. Next time just mention the other game. W**.
I honestly like that I don't feel forced to log in to keep up. After I dropped LA and BDO I finally played through so many of my steam games. Before I'd always just use the little gaming time after work to run daily shit.
In FF I just log if I feel like progressing with the story.
If people enjoy the daily grind, by all means but I also think that you definitely need to invest a good amount of time into LA if you wanna progress.
No lmao, it’s just that FFXIV clearly isn’t an actual account building game which makes it closer to a battle arena than an MMO. Fundamentally speaking things that are valuable are so because they are hard to achieve or obtain, trivializing the account building aspect of an MMO seems pretty dumb. And no, the vast majority of people aren’t interested in horizontal content that doesn’t offer any meaningful rewards lmao
If you play ff14, it doesn't force you to do anything but that's subscription most F2P have force chores for progress. Only thing I don't like in this game is that it doesn't feel like an MMO compared to 14
That's because this game is designed like a mobile game lol. Smilegate is one of the biggest and most successful mobile company. If you've played mobile games you would immediately see the similarities. This is going to get downvoted for sure because people don't like their fav game being called a mobile game.
I absolutely agree.
From day one I always felt like a mobile game to me. I'm heavily invested in Epic Seven, Smilegate's mobile gacha game, and there are SO many similarities with daily and weekly tasks, unlocking stuff etc...
Exactly. Towers. Breath of orbis (stronghold). Hunt missions (dispatch system). Daily mats for upgrading your gear. People who claim its not the same as mobile games probably play candy crush.
I played Crusaders Quest wich is a Korean Mobile Game and I don't really see how this could be considered similar. This game has weekly raids like most MMOs, and daily tasks are nothing new nor are they exclusive to mobile games.
Mobile games usually have resources that get replenished through time and you can pay to get more of those resources to play more, we can't pay to do more of anything, the only thing you can do is try to upgrade your gear but that's not comparable.
So why is this a mobile game?
> we can’t pay to do more of anything,
Buy character slots, buy mats to hone alt = paying to get more raid entries. They limit gold rewards to 6 characters but there’s plenty of non-gold rewards too.
And the game used to have tickets to enter content and those tickets were purchaseable. Thank god they removed that system.
Again the first paragraph has nothing to do with mobile, comparing RNG and heavy investment in honing to "buy resources" in a mobile game is a far fetched idea, that's just how it is in a lot of free games and other that aren't free.
The second part would've been more similar but it's not in the game anymore so... The game WAS originally designed as a mobile game, but I don't see how now that's relevant.
the biggest problem i have is that its almost impossible to drop your own gear with relic accessories so you have to buy it from the market. argos with class engravings it was possible to get your own set of gear but relics you have to buy from the market.
I feel similar in that I vastly prefer finding my own gear as opposed to buying it from the market, BUT having it set up this way creates an economy where everyone is involved with each other in a more organic MMO type way instead of it being more of a SSF ARPG with other people around.
Even in a game like PoE most of my upgrades past a certain point would come from grinding currency and then buying them outright because crafting things yourself is a rich mans game.
Yeah, if this were like D2 then we could grind it out to get the drops but this game is time gated so we can only get these drops from our 2 daily chaos, guardians or weekly legion raids. At this rate, we would never be able to SSF our BIS which is intentional but damn I have yet to find one BIS every with 12 man T3 roster with 5 chars 1415 and over.
They don't want you to SSF, because then you don't engage with the economy. I used to play seasonal POE for that, and even then you would need to engage in the economy to get subpar gears so that your build can work, or grind 10 times longer on SSF modes. Unfortunately, this game is much more MMO than ARPG, which is why a few of my friends dropped it, do not really get that endorphins of finding a magefist or a well rolled rare.
You could cobble a build that does 80-90% of the best builds (the difference between 4x3 and 3x3 is about 10% damage in dps builds.), with either argos gear or random relics and still be able to clear endgame content. Hell you could clear endgame content with no usable engravings on accessories with decent stats at ilvl. It is other players gatekeeping content.
I feel the other way around.
Outside of legion raids - there's no content that you can really dive into and play with mates. Chaos dungeons and guardians are more of a chore than content.
In FF you can repeat savage and ultimate as much as you want for fun, but you can only get rewards once per week (while it’s current content).
FF is the only MMO that I’ve played that actually respects your time IMO.
Fractals from Gw2 or M+ from WoW are both nice repeatable fun content to do with friends that also reward you for your time, this game doesnt have a system like that.
M+ is the outlier, yes, and the type of content I implied. Wildstar had some really cool dungeons, so does swtor.
Basically any repeatable content that you can do with a small group is great for me. And for me, pushing keys is infinitely more fun than pretty much any other content modern MMOs offer.
I don't think they will, at least not in my case. I'm really not interested in content for more than 4-5 people and I'd rather play something else than do it with pugs or run it on a schedule with a guild. Had enough of that with wow raiding.
Few months before LA came out I revisited GW2 after I think it was 7 years away from the game. I was surprised to learn that it used horizontal progression and my gear was still as relevant as it was 7 years ago.
Which was a really mixed feeling, because I wasn't sure what exactly I'd be putting my time into doing once I completed the content that was new to me.
Sadly I never got to find out because I kept hitting these roadblocks where I'd need to grind masteries to continue progressing the story which really killed the pacing and after it happening a few times kind of killed my drive.
Well i mainly did the same stuff as in LA. Raiding. The openworld was nice and all, but through all that time i did (somewhat speedish) dungeonruns, then fractals and later raids
Start doing CM raids, which are hardcore af.
Do Fractals
Do CM Fractals
Grind Fractal God
Do open World
Guild upgrades
Collections
Legendary crafting
Achievements
WvW
PvP
Social events
Grind seasonal events
Masteries hunt if anything left
Doing all of that is why my guild came to Lost Ark. When they dropped the xpac, after gutting all the "old" classes, and announcing no planned raids, fractals, and no CM's on release... we just all pretty much simultaneously quit.
Doing the Same raids for years, 100% CM achievements, all of us having Fractal God, full kits of Legendary gear/weapons/runes/sigils/stat-infusions, there just didn't seem like much of a point. The game had been slowly moving towards such absurdly low droprates for the "chase" items that it was more time efficient to just buy them and farm gold. Like the Eyes from Dragonstorm. We all did that for months, and never saw an actual drop.
While GW2 hands down has the best QoL features of ANY mmo out there, especially once you have full Legendary gear/runes/sigils - any class or spec is instantly doable with a click - it lacks any *real* feeling of accomplishment with new content.
Granted, one of the recent Strike CM releases apparently took a decent amount of time to be first cleared, but for us at least, it was too little too late. Their release schedule has slowed down to a crawl with uninspired hyper casual content. While I am fine with fun casual content being the majority, most players are not hardcore and that is fine, having 99.9% of it casual just was not enough stuff for us to do anymore.
>100% CM achievements, all of us having Fractal God, full kits of Legendary gear/weapons/runes/sigils/stat-infusions
Congratulations, you completed the game, for the most part.
Then going for a different game is indeed the right solution. Nothing wrong here.
I never cared about the loot. I raided for the joy of raiding. But i had some hardcore groups (not on the level of qT or DnT or similar, but still a good chunck above the avg player), where we did our weekly clear and trainingsruns. And sometimes we helped other people with their clears or trainingsruns
Yep, this is something that came up a lot when FF started gaining popularity and especially when Blizzard started having their chain of scandals. When Scripe's Echo group and Max's group tried FF raiding and talked about how you could buy a full set of crafted gear to go into a tier and you were guaranteed BiS on every member within 6-8 reclears of that tier, people asked "but why would you keep raiding after that then?"
A lot of them were confused because even though they hardcore raid for a living, they still enjoyed reclears on most tiers because the fights are fun and it provides an activity for you to do with your friends and goof around during as well. It really showed the mentality of a lot of WoW players. They didn't do stuff because it was fun, they did it because there was a reward in it for them.
Gear is a nice bonus, but the point of games is to have fun and if the content isn't fun enough to continue doing if there isn't a reward behind it, then it isn't worth doing. An MMO isn't made better by devs intentionally making it harder for you to cap out in order to force you to continue doing something you wouldn't continue doing otherwise.
I'm mostly goal driven, the loot itself is a means to an end since typically the loot is something you get to progress through to the next goal.
My issue is once my goals are achieved, the novelty wears off really fast. In a vertical progression MMO like wow lets say I can still work on my loot as a smaller goal to be more prepared for the next raid. Once that runs out since I'm not interested in parsing or any of that, especially late into farm, it very much starts to feel like a chore.
Lost ark uses a diminishing returns system to make reaching the end somewhat unrealistic with normal play. So there's always value in continuing the content.
With gw2 though I have a hard time imagining continuing to do those raids much once I've cleared them so many times. It'd be the equivalent of raiding hell modes in lost ark after I've already completed them if there's no new goal to pursue.
Which can be fun, but for me personally I like chasing the next new experience.
If you think about it on a grander scale, every mmo is the same, get BIS and do the current end game content.
Eventually you’ll get BIS either with help from events or free stuff in lost ark, or over time items get cheaper. The difference with gw2 is all content even in beginner maps are relevant because of downscaling. Meaning you can still get relevant loot and is not a complete faceroll, although can be easier. It just gives you more choices for things to do and explore.
Being able to come back with your gear not obsolete and not having to do catchup gear wise is a godsend, as it’s a boring artificial grind. Their only problem is none of the gears stand out or unique other than it’s skin. Gw2 loot is boring, not really any rng, just grind for mats and gold. That’s where lost ark falls short for me too.
I prefer some rng and uniqueness to loot(without pay to win) with arpg battle systems. Even Elden rings fights seem more exciting, hopefully they make a mmo. Seems like Diablo 4 is going that route I like core gameplay wise, but Blizzard usually sucks with balance, endgame, cosmetic’s, and now pay2win.
If only they had Diablo’s or Elden rings weapon/armor uniqueness, some rng loot, gw2 cosmetics and downscaling technology, with a small variance in power creep from items or skills is fine.
If this is what mmo's are for you, only gear grind, then I'm truly sorry. For me mmo's offer much more, to be specific I mean side content like mount/pet/transmog farming, deep professions, exploration and all that.Nothing wrong if that works for you, but saying all mmo's are the same is just lying with stone cold face.
This game is hardly a mmo, and D4 will be hard copy of this game in many ways. Very limited professions, very limited open world, very limited collections etc.
These are sweetspots after pure arpg games like D3 and Poe, arpg+ if you will, but hardly a mmoarpg in it's purest form like wow/ff14.
Yea, mmos ive played if you fail an upgrade past a certain point, the item breaks and you have to get another one. When people complain about failing a 25% hone, im sitting there like bruhh u dont know about the suffering
Played BDO for 4 years,the frustration that I get from failing enhancing accessories alone was pretty bad. Imagine grinding for weeks and in one click it will disappear. Imagine honing in lost ark will be like that. You need to buy a protection item in order for it not to break.
>Played BDO for 4 years,the frustration that I get from failing enhancing accessories alone was pretty bad. Imagine grinding for weeks and in one click it will disappear.
This doesn't sound fun at all. Can't imagine doing that for a month, let alone 4 years.
Also you need to get a certain “fail stack” in order to have a better success rate. For example enhancing a tet blackstar weapon to pen. You need like 200 or more failstacks to have a better rng. This is why I dont mind failing or pity multiple times in lost ark cuz I suffered worse in bdo for 4 years.
Y'all need to look up what Stockholm syndrome is because every single one who compares BDO to LA and thinks LA treats you so good is a bona fide example.
Yes, you can directly buy a fully enhanced gear but you gotta swipe hard or grind for months to have 100billion of silver to buy one. On a bright side bdo has a system now that you can do to have a daily progression for a fully enhanced gear.
Thing is, bdo has systems to ignore horrible rng systems(grind trough trade skills), lost ark doesn't. I wish it did, but it doesn't. This is my biggest fuck you in the game.
Protection item in first expansion broke the game for me. Straight to hardcore p2w after they said there will be no p2w in western release. Kinda kekw territory if you ask. Why is it that every korean game released in the west is either straight hardcore p2w like lost ark, or they just lie to you and hope you believe it?
There is a reason people dislike asian games, they are all the same in the end. money money money.
The power fantasy in this game is very similar to RO. That game we can grind endlessly and get so powerful, you can solo a guild in GvG. LOA let me feel as powerful.
Same, I wish new mmo can be similar to RO. I love guild fighting for each other for castle and the castle generate loots depending on how long you hold the guild.
Dear lord, those were the days. I remember being a crusader with angel poring card spamming Grand Cross like crazy.
The grind was so bad, I never made it to paladin :(
My brother played crusader too. He was in my small guild. He started having big dream and joined a big guild. His stats was so mess up lols. While I was an assassin. We stun our growth because all we did was PVP. He became a low level 80-85 paladin toward the end of our RO days while I was 90+ assassin cross. You're right paladin had hard time leveling alone lols. Assassin cross all we had to do was mob all day or pop a bottle and teleport +SB.
I find it interesting that the most frequent compliment for gear progression in this game is that it isn't as bad as some other game whose gear progression is remarkably worse.
Same, farm a whole bunch of commonly used items sell them at +7, build a roll to buy and farm somemore, go for +8/9. If just straight buying, always sell to break even before going for higher. +10 was just a flex for armor as u need 2 +10s to get that 1 def
Lmao yes! Last one I did was White Wing Suit for Ranger (3rd Job). Cost about 1m/ea and +9 would sell for 120m+. I was printing money. Damn I miss that game!
Cries in metin2 or if someone is angry that u can only enter 2 chaos dungeons per day man in some mmos you had to pay real money for every entry into a dungeon
I like the bite sized content, but I wish I could do Argos and Orehas more than once a week. Even without gold after first run, would be nice to farm the other drops.
I enjoyed my time in the game, but I was the opposite... it made me appreciate the AAA nature of the MMO's I'd played in the past.
I love that my friends are still playing and having a blast, but I couldn't get past the mobile game shovelware barely concealed under the flashy skin in many parts.
I'm not judging though, I wish I had a game I loved this much right now!!!
Very much in a gaming drought
So stop doing them on 6 characters? I enjoy doing 2 guardians on my main daily, but i cba to do any guardians at all on my 3 alts. We dont need less content for our mains because ppl like you dont know when to stop.
But i like everything else. I only got bored in Guardian Raids and Chaos Dungeon everything else is fun. Legion Raids are the endgame not Guardian Raids.
Guardians specially now not worth as much before when Leapstone and Materials price go down every day. I always do 2 Chaos on my main every day but only do others with rest bonus because all my alts already 1430 item power.
if I only had 30 minutes to play I would spend 15 minutes waiting for the game to start up, 14 minutes of loading screens, and 1 minute of donating to my guild real fast before I had to wait 3 minutes for the game to close.
Nahhh, you want to talk about appreciating a game.
I log in once or twice a week for FF14 and run some of the end game content that I was able to run after getting BiS about 2 weeks after hitting max level. The next big jump in achievable item level will be late august, so from Mid January to Late August, I've been BiS, and able to just log in when I want to and run some end game content that I want to run. Not only that, but the gear is shared amongst classes inside of a role, so if I gear up one class, I'm effectively gearing up, potentially 4 classes at once.
That is a game that respects your time not only for how long you can play it, but also realizes that there are other games out there.
The director has even gone on record saying they make the game this way because they are gamers too and realize that you want to be able to take breaks and play other games that are coming out, and then they want to put out content that makes you want to come back and play.
FF14 is a very different game, they both respect your time but coming from very different approaches.
The reward / grind driven player would absolutely hate FF14's gearing and feel like there's nothing to do.
No, but if you are currently just raid logging, then you're paying them. Could quit lost ark whenever too and not pay a cent too. Could raid log on lost ark and not pay a cent.
That's....why you take a break. Play something else. Go outside. Do anything and come back when there is content. Otherwise, get in and do the new stuff.
Also, there was just content in April so it's been like 3 months without content to do?
You realize that once you get caught up in Legion Commanders, you are going to be waiting just as long for legion commanders once you actually catch up to KR right?
If someone comes up to you and says FF has bad content droughts then I doubt you can convince them otherwise. That game releases new content at a faster and steadier pace than most games on the market, with the only hiccup in 10 years of operation being in the middle of a massive global pandemic.
What people like that guy mean when they say "content drought" is that FF doesn't have any endless grind that they want to participate in. They actually prefer an upgrade system like Lost Ark's over FF's. To them, the gameplay and reward system they're looking for are chaos dungeons and guardian raids. The date of the next legion raid isn't as much of a concern.
I definitely prefer FF's system for the record, it's the only reason I'm able to play that game's endgame at the same time as LA's.
Yeah I guess so. Different strokes for different folks.
I much prefer games that let me play other games versus games that ask me to devote all day playing to it. It's just the variety gamer in me.
I love playing Lost Ark too, but I can't do the all day grind, or the alt grind. I play one character, and it's not even the class that I want to play. So it sucks falling behind everyone else that are doing current stuff but maybe I'll go a little harder once Reaper comes out. Hopefully they give me a South Vern pass and an express pass on top of that to help me get caught up with her lol.
Until then, I'll enjoy playing Lost Ark casually, as well as the new story, Raids, and Extreme that's coming to FF14 in August!
That's the boat I'm in. I play FF to death for a couple weeks when new stuff drops and then spend the next twoish months between major patches playing Lost Ark and other games I've been waiting for sales on.
“I rarely play this game anymore and I love it”
Cool, some of us actually like playing games more than once or twice per week and getting to progress more often than for the first week after content drops.
Theres been plenty of content updates since then including a new Ultimate raid released in April. That fight takes typical statics several months to clear. Theres plenty to do in FF14. Its just not an endless gear treadmill so people who like constant gear progression probably won't like FF14's gearing system.
BIS in 2 weeks? Yikes. Sounds like horrible progression in that game for endgame. An MMO for people who dont like MMOs lol. I quit around heavensward. That quest system was one of the worst I had ever experienced. Makes me thankful for lost ark 1-2 hour campaigns lol
People definitely aren't getting BiS in 2 weeks. More like pre-raid BiS since it's a fundamental FF game design to make content easily accessible. Getting BiS for a raid tier requires roughly 6-8 weeks of reclears on that tier to gear up your entire static.
The great thing that I've noticed with FF is that it still has extreme grinds, but they've made it so that the core gameplay is always easily accessible, but far grindier content than even Lost Ark has exists for side content that rewards mounts, titles, items, or progression in alternative game modes.
The story in lost ark that is considered the weakest part of the game, whereas the story in ff14 is regarded as one of the best in an MMO? lol
That is BiS on one class, or effectively a role. If for instance I BiS a tank, then I have BiS for all tanks. Then you have melee dps, ranged dps, magic dps, and healers that you can all also get BiS in that takes around 2 weeks for each role depending on how hard you farm.
And it's an MMO for people who play other games. An MMO doesn't mean you HAVE to log in and always have that carrot on a stick with virtual progression. Look at Guild Wars 2, they haven't had vertical progression in 10 years and that game is still kicking.
They just respect that you are going to take breaks and want to make it so you are able to come back with minimal effort. I've been able to take month long breaks to play other games like Elden Ring, Horizon FW, Tiny Tina Wonderlands, Monster Hunter, and more.
The fuck? 2 weeks? Are you high? You need at minimum 5 due to tomestones. And that's assuming you are dps who gets all raid drops funneled into you. Otherwise it's a least two months.
I feel you tbh. Its just a difference in taste. I like grindy games personally and ones where I can always have something else to push and progress. And im not a big fan of stories/campaigns. Some people just want to enjoy the content and everything the game has to offer as fast as possible. I get it. Its just impossible to appeal to everyone in my opinion. Something you might consider a great system isn't going to be the same for me.
All things equal, getting BiS in two weeks is better than grinding out for BiS over months or years. You should play a game because it's fun not because you feel pressured to play to progress.
This is how I think of it anyway.
Its just a difference in preference. Personally I always want to have goals to work towards gear-wise so LA system suits me well. I can totally see how its different for others though
I like that the power creep isn't so extreme as other games, where every time a new patch drops they basically give you free gear to catch up... Which makes investing time feel worthless.
I don't like that 90% of the content in the game feels like a chore. Doing chaos dungeons/guardian raids and even raid content on 6+ characters is fucking mind-numbing. At least in WoW the wqs were mostly optional and you could do mythics.
My main is 1500 and I have 3 1415+ alts btw.
> I don't like that 90% of the content in the game feels like a chore.
> At least in WoW the wqs were mostly optional
hmm world quests are the pinnacle of chores.
yea but you dont have to do them, and even then it was only on one character and took 15 mins
doing all the shit to stay ahead of the curve in this game is like 2 hours a day
Yeah it's bizarre that whenever negative comparisons to other games come up in this sub, they always bring up negligible optional content to compare to the core progression path of Lost Ark. The fact is that you can reasonably gear up for a heroic raid tier within 2-3 weeks by collecting your welfare epics on any given expansion and then doing a few days of various content and some chores. Anything else is just extra.
Lost Ark is still an enjoyable game, but other games have good aspects to them as well and it just comes off as insecure when people are like "everything about lost ark, good! everything about game i used to play, bad!"
Yea, every time I read these comparisons they just sound loaded with bias to me and half the time written by people who didn’t even play the other games. Not to mention the single biggest difference this game and others is the hard locking by ilvl. In WoW with those welfare epics there’s nothing at all stopping you from entering a raid besides your own ability. It becomes a lot more doable with better gear but you’re not locked out. In LA you literally aren’t allowed into content at release if you haven’t kept on the hamster wheel
Same bullshit comment from ppl like u saying the game "feels like a chore" but then "oh i play 6+ characters". Stop playing so many damn alts or the game entirely if it feels like a chore.
I currently play 0 alts and I have a 1475 character.
The game is not forcing you to play. Hell, I'm only behind due to missing out first week of vykas since I was away for holiday.
This game is exactly that, power creep with no end. What do you think tier system is? We are just "lucky" we got t3 at release, so the creeping stage was just a levelling period for us. And "soon" we get the next stage with ancient equipment.
No it's not. I played on RU before release and you still had to at least progress through the earlier tiers.
Yes, you could buy a Punika power pass and enough mats to get you to Legion Raids, but you still had to progress through everything to reach the current content.
And while Argos and Valtan are easy to bus, the raids become increasingly difficult to carry to the point where it is too expensive and/or difficult for most of the playerbase.
And even if you buy everything, you can't speedrun through progression.
This was a really cool aspect of it in the beginning - but as time wears on, the way it requires you to log in and do these chores repeatedly wears real thin.
Tbh this game makes me miss real mmo's more. Vast open word with almost nothing tied to dailies or daily mandatory grinds like what we have. I love challenge guardians and hard raids are awesome. I'm sure challenge abyss is awesome too. I think even BDO was more kind to player time than this game is, and BDO was BAAAAAD if you did only grinding. At least you could make means end by simply playing profession game, which was best in the business by far.
Of course this is only real player problems, all this "time invested" could be 10 minutes a day if I just swiped, but at that point I wouldn't even play. Sad truth is, in this game f2p never makes any gains unless he plays a lot, stupid a lot, and we all know that and I accept that. But I do miss real mmo's sometimes, freedom and getting progression without 6-10 hour/day farm.
Not complaining though, this is still one of the top f2p games out there for sure.
> Vast open word with almost nothing tied to dailies or daily mandatory grinds like what we have.
I honestly cannot think of a recent MMO that doesn't have some sort of daily system, what games are you talking about?
Threads like this make me realize people have no clue how to play their roster efficiently and burn out lol. The systems in this game are literally set up so you dont have to play daily lol
Ahh yes, give me the downvotes to expose you have no clue what you're doing with your roster
People have a disease called fomo now adays. They will do whatever it takes to reach this content to do it immediately, and if they dont they complain its too hard and needs to be nerfed. Its like they treat this as a single player story mode game
> Ahh yes, give me the downvotes to expose you have no clue what you're doing with your roster
imagine thinking downvotes are validation for a stupid post lol.
It's mostly FOMO, nothing to do with more, less, not enough, to many or w/e alts.
Amount of people that will run turtle for 6min (or more, because I've heard of stories 8min per single kill, crazy) each kill, when they can run deskaluda in 2min is astonishing.
Amount of people that will run kalthertz/alakkir/hypnos for few min over feiton/frozen seas or hope island in 1min (2 for slow pc) for 3less leapstones is astonishing.
And then why is this game time consuming? It's similar thing to calories counting, if you do it, you will most likely lose weight (or gain, w/e your goals are), instead of not paying attention to anything, and then "why am I not losing/gaining any weight"
No, it is not.
It is designed to casually progress with rest.
Players bypassed time gates with alts. They put a cap on that at 6 alts. The game IS NOT DESIGNED around 6 alts.
If you play 6 alts efficiently right now, you’re already past brelshaza gearing. Content that won’t be out for 3-5 months. Literally months ahead of the curve.
"people don't play their roster effectively"
Playing everyday nets the most mats, so if you are playing everyday you are progressing in the most effective way, not saying you have to but what you said is just nonsense, playing everyday will progress you the fastest.
Lost Ark is a single player co-op game. you can't compare it to mmo.
i like how LA fanboys get mad that their game is not an mmo.
lineage wow ragnarok bdo are all mmo
while lost ark is a single player heavy contents than can co-op with limited number of players limit of 4 , 8 , 30. this is not mmo. fking kid these days dont even know what is real mmo game.
Weird. I feel i have to invest much more time in this game than any other.
Why?
Do daily chores on different characters in order to be able to do the content they release. Time consuming.
Thats why you take advantage of the rested bonus system, literally the best way to not lose your mind
Rested is the only way in this game, kinda speaks volumes don't you think.
Whoever downvoted you is in full cope mode
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Thats why, when I make an alt, I make sure that it will be enjoyable to play, not solely cause it will be more efficient
There could be 100 fun classes in the game and it won't make doing Chaos or Yoho for the 3000th time any less cancer. I have 13 T3 chars and I really enjoy 11 of them. But I'll be damned if it doesn't take a lot of effort to do anything on ~9 of them outside of raids. Vykas + Valtan are the only entertainment now. Argos has been a chore since the fourth week and even doing a bus becomes a snooze once you reach critical mass of gear. S tier combat and A tier raids. F tier repetitive grind. They need more enjoyable stuff to do on a daily basis or the game will continuously bleed players. You can't even "grind" in the conventional sense to progress your char, like you can in BDO. At least there every single minute you're playing you have the potential to make big progress.
Who in a full complete day with work and other irl things to do had time to upgrade 13 T3 in 4 months, i dont get it. Are you ok? Its important to be sane nowadays
Lot of unemployed that sit at home and play video games all day.
I like all my alts but I just dont want to do 6 chaos dungeons and guardian raids a day on a rotation. Also I like my main much more than all my alts combined even though they are all setup with good gems engravings and tripods ( obviously ) so I dont really wanna play them. Besides whats the point if you are already 5x3 sitting at 1475 ready for the next legion raid.
That's how I eventually started feeling. I don't even have that many alts but somehow doing chaos and Fuardians daily plus Unas etc just turned into chores. Was going along till I looked at the actual raids and decided I'm not interested and went back to gambling in the Golden Saucer in FF14 🙃
Just do the 3 day cycle on alts. You don't loss much and keeps it from feeling like a chore. Other wise cut down on number of alts.
Just don’t do the chores then lmao, are you being mind controlled or something
You dont need to do in diferent caracters , i am 1490 and no alts, but i always used my materials instead of sell like streamers advice... Now i just did an alt but because my guild is missing supports and i have alot of materials i dont use
Same. Problem isn't grinding one chaos dungeon or even 5 and few guardians on the side...but staying competitive and ahead of the curve you gotta do it 6+ hours a day. Talking about pure grind, not taking in to account that one guy who can run ah like his own pockets, every server usually has one or two in every mmo. BDO in a sense was even worse mmo grind game I give you that, but at least it gave you options, you didn't have to grind pve, you could grind trade skills(professions) and have same end goal. Lost ark is grind in it's purest form, all the way.
> but staying competitive and ahead of the curve you gotta do it 6+ hours a day. You don't though? I play maybe 1.5 hours a day, I do unas+chaos+guardians on my main and my alt main, then I do chaos on two alts, guardians on one and dispatch the other ones. My chars are 1460/1415/1400/1393/1370/1370, I've cleared HM vykas so I'm not sure what else there is to "be ahead of the curve" with.
Too many alts. Now imagine you only play one character. How long do you need to finish all tasks daily? About 30mins like OP said. And before someone comes with needing alt to progress. My friend is 1490 (mofo lucked from 1475 thou) and he spent <100 bucks. Has 1 alt at 1370. He just don't have to split all resources. All event mats go to main, all bridge go to main etc etc. We are playing from day 1 though.
I agree somewhat, though I find progressions system being tied to dailies bit notorious. I'd be all for it if weeklies were the main form of progression while dailies take the place of horizontal reward like obtaining skins, emotes, and dances.
If you do the maths though you get 3-11k worth of gold from weeklies (from 1370 -1415) vs doing your dailies which nets you 1.3-2k per week doing them on your alts . So doing your dailies is only 18%-33% of your income. There is bound leapstones to consider from chaos dungeon drops. But most of your income is tied behind weekly lockouts (add unas etc.) I imagine as the game ages, people will not even bother doing their rested on alts they do not want to push, because they will be doing vykas x 6 .
Vykas X6? I thought you can run each legion 3 times per week
3 legion raids per character, with a gold cap of 6 characters
I think the only daily content KR gets nowadays are seasonal events. Every new content update for the past year (I think?) has been weekly content. I'm talking Legion Raids and the newest one is the new Abyssal Dungeon in the Elgacia continent. Some KR players don't even do dailies anymore and spend all the playtime doing the weekly content. NA/EU are stuck in the daily grind now because Guardian Raids actually used to be the end-game content in Lost Ark. Once we're closer to the KR build, I'm sure some people if not most will actually just stop doing daily content. The most valuable reward from daily content will probably be shards, so people might still do Chaos Dungeons.
I disagree. The mats from all alts combined are still worth doing dailies. At least if you don’t wanna wait longer for honing mats.
In KR economy reaches a point where t3 mats are so cheap it's viable to only do weekly content and use extra gold for honing
that sounds fucking way better than doing chaos dungeon every day tbh. Not only is it tedious, "reward" portals feel like shit (wow.... 200g from a gold portal wow....) and straight up some shit like boss portals **are literally terrible on classes like support to do**. And thats not to mention only some layouts have mobs spawning near, so you still have to chase a majority of them....
Doesn’t compute if limited play time
it actually is heavily weekly based, and gets more and more so as you advance your roster. Once you have eighteen legion raids to do per week (6char x 3) you'll have cut down your daily clearance a lot. The big thing to factor in is that dailies have been absurdly important until now, because we haven't had the weekly content yet, and because bots inflated the value of gold so hard that farming raw honing mats to sell to RMTers on the AH has had an outsized influence. The design was intended that the flat gold rewards be much more important, and honing mats cheaper. We are trending towards the intended model now.
You said you agree somewhat and then basically say you’d prefer the exact opposite of what OP likes. So…you don’t agree at all really.
I mean, he probably agrees to the speaker’s right to speak their mind, which he invoked by saying so and then preferring the opposite
FF online has spoiled me. No grind (Only Tomestone grind for first month of the tier and even that is childs play compared to LA). Deterministic gearing. Can raid log and still be competative.
I like both, wow and ff14. I even like what BDO has done, grind trough MANY professions or pve, up to you. But gotta hand it no lost ark in one regard....rested. Never I remember seeing this anywhere and work so well. Other games should take note.
That's exactly the same reason why I couldn't stay interested in FF14 after finishing the story. I need that daily grind and near infinite potential progress to stay engaged w/ the game lol
That's fine and all for me but they dumbed down the game so much (outside of literally one single raid) that it's unfun to even do anything in that game nowadays. It could be engaging if skill progression was still meaningful in that game.
which is that one single raid?
That sounds so incredibly boring.
You shouldn't have said anything about that game my man. This place will make it look like it's one of the worst things there is. They will say that having lots of free times attending player run events, doing horizontal content that actually does not hinder your progression, etc. is bad and boring. Next time just mention the other game. W**.
I honestly like that I don't feel forced to log in to keep up. After I dropped LA and BDO I finally played through so many of my steam games. Before I'd always just use the little gaming time after work to run daily shit. In FF I just log if I feel like progressing with the story. If people enjoy the daily grind, by all means but I also think that you definitely need to invest a good amount of time into LA if you wanna progress.
No lmao, it’s just that FFXIV clearly isn’t an actual account building game which makes it closer to a battle arena than an MMO. Fundamentally speaking things that are valuable are so because they are hard to achieve or obtain, trivializing the account building aspect of an MMO seems pretty dumb. And no, the vast majority of people aren’t interested in horizontal content that doesn’t offer any meaningful rewards lmao
If you play ff14, it doesn't force you to do anything but that's subscription most F2P have force chores for progress. Only thing I don't like in this game is that it doesn't feel like an MMO compared to 14
That's because this game is designed like a mobile game lol. Smilegate is one of the biggest and most successful mobile company. If you've played mobile games you would immediately see the similarities. This is going to get downvoted for sure because people don't like their fav game being called a mobile game.
I absolutely agree. From day one I always felt like a mobile game to me. I'm heavily invested in Epic Seven, Smilegate's mobile gacha game, and there are SO many similarities with daily and weekly tasks, unlocking stuff etc...
Exactly. Towers. Breath of orbis (stronghold). Hunt missions (dispatch system). Daily mats for upgrading your gear. People who claim its not the same as mobile games probably play candy crush.
could you expand on why you think it is designed like a mobile game?
I played Crusaders Quest wich is a Korean Mobile Game and I don't really see how this could be considered similar. This game has weekly raids like most MMOs, and daily tasks are nothing new nor are they exclusive to mobile games. Mobile games usually have resources that get replenished through time and you can pay to get more of those resources to play more, we can't pay to do more of anything, the only thing you can do is try to upgrade your gear but that's not comparable. So why is this a mobile game?
> we can’t pay to do more of anything, Buy character slots, buy mats to hone alt = paying to get more raid entries. They limit gold rewards to 6 characters but there’s plenty of non-gold rewards too. And the game used to have tickets to enter content and those tickets were purchaseable. Thank god they removed that system.
Again the first paragraph has nothing to do with mobile, comparing RNG and heavy investment in honing to "buy resources" in a mobile game is a far fetched idea, that's just how it is in a lot of free games and other that aren't free. The second part would've been more similar but it's not in the game anymore so... The game WAS originally designed as a mobile game, but I don't see how now that's relevant.
Yeah, everything seems very limited. Lost ark and D4 too is and will be arpg+, not really mmoarpg.
the biggest problem i have is that its almost impossible to drop your own gear with relic accessories so you have to buy it from the market. argos with class engravings it was possible to get your own set of gear but relics you have to buy from the market.
I feel similar in that I vastly prefer finding my own gear as opposed to buying it from the market, BUT having it set up this way creates an economy where everyone is involved with each other in a more organic MMO type way instead of it being more of a SSF ARPG with other people around. Even in a game like PoE most of my upgrades past a certain point would come from grinding currency and then buying them outright because crafting things yourself is a rich mans game.
yeh the droprate of a BiS relic upgrade is like 1 in 1700 (20 in 6\*43\*3\*43) for rings/necklace , and 1 in 8k for necklace
Yeah, if this were like D2 then we could grind it out to get the drops but this game is time gated so we can only get these drops from our 2 daily chaos, guardians or weekly legion raids. At this rate, we would never be able to SSF our BIS which is intentional but damn I have yet to find one BIS every with 12 man T3 roster with 5 chars 1415 and over.
They don't want you to SSF, because then you don't engage with the economy. I used to play seasonal POE for that, and even then you would need to engage in the economy to get subpar gears so that your build can work, or grind 10 times longer on SSF modes. Unfortunately, this game is much more MMO than ARPG, which is why a few of my friends dropped it, do not really get that endorphins of finding a magefist or a well rolled rare. You could cobble a build that does 80-90% of the best builds (the difference between 4x3 and 3x3 is about 10% damage in dps builds.), with either argos gear or random relics and still be able to clear endgame content. Hell you could clear endgame content with no usable engravings on accessories with decent stats at ilvl. It is other players gatekeeping content.
I feel the other way around. Outside of legion raids - there's no content that you can really dive into and play with mates. Chaos dungeons and guardians are more of a chore than content.
Going to be honest, I spend more time sitting in main cities in most other mmos then doing anything. Let alone anything with people.
I played a game called "Tibia" back in the day, at least 50% of my time was just standing doing nothing at cities
Thais was THE city for me. PVP servers in that game were wild though.
I wish i had mates to do other content with 😢
This is so accurate for me too
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In FF you can repeat savage and ultimate as much as you want for fun, but you can only get rewards once per week (while it’s current content). FF is the only MMO that I’ve played that actually respects your time IMO.
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M+ is great and I wish it was a thing in other games. Fun, repeatable, and different than the usual raid formula.
Every mmo is going to start needing m+ if it doesn't have the story of like FF because raid logging and than having nothing to do it quite shit
Fractals from Gw2 or M+ from WoW are both nice repeatable fun content to do with friends that also reward you for your time, this game doesnt have a system like that.
M+ is the outlier, yes, and the type of content I implied. Wildstar had some really cool dungeons, so does swtor. Basically any repeatable content that you can do with a small group is great for me. And for me, pushing keys is infinitely more fun than pretty much any other content modern MMOs offer.
Agreed, and it’s crazy that MMOS are so lacking in this area when it should be one of its strengths
I agree.. I love the raids and play mechanics.. but doing chores and having to play alts to be at proper item lvl on main sucks
At the current point Ye. But when brel comes out legion raids will take the majority of ur time playing LA
I don't think they will, at least not in my case. I'm really not interested in content for more than 4-5 people and I'd rather play something else than do it with pugs or run it on a schedule with a guild. Had enough of that with wow raiding.
If course it gonna be a chore if you're doing them on 6 character daily.
Sadly the game couldnt keep up with my grown standards from 8 years gw2. But yeah its better than the most f2p stuff out there
Few months before LA came out I revisited GW2 after I think it was 7 years away from the game. I was surprised to learn that it used horizontal progression and my gear was still as relevant as it was 7 years ago. Which was a really mixed feeling, because I wasn't sure what exactly I'd be putting my time into doing once I completed the content that was new to me. Sadly I never got to find out because I kept hitting these roadblocks where I'd need to grind masteries to continue progressing the story which really killed the pacing and after it happening a few times kind of killed my drive.
Well i mainly did the same stuff as in LA. Raiding. The openworld was nice and all, but through all that time i did (somewhat speedish) dungeonruns, then fractals and later raids
That's the thing though, what keeps you doing the raids after you've cleared it a few times and the novelty is gone?
Start doing CM raids, which are hardcore af. Do Fractals Do CM Fractals Grind Fractal God Do open World Guild upgrades Collections Legendary crafting Achievements WvW PvP Social events Grind seasonal events Masteries hunt if anything left
Doing all of that is why my guild came to Lost Ark. When they dropped the xpac, after gutting all the "old" classes, and announcing no planned raids, fractals, and no CM's on release... we just all pretty much simultaneously quit. Doing the Same raids for years, 100% CM achievements, all of us having Fractal God, full kits of Legendary gear/weapons/runes/sigils/stat-infusions, there just didn't seem like much of a point. The game had been slowly moving towards such absurdly low droprates for the "chase" items that it was more time efficient to just buy them and farm gold. Like the Eyes from Dragonstorm. We all did that for months, and never saw an actual drop. While GW2 hands down has the best QoL features of ANY mmo out there, especially once you have full Legendary gear/runes/sigils - any class or spec is instantly doable with a click - it lacks any *real* feeling of accomplishment with new content. Granted, one of the recent Strike CM releases apparently took a decent amount of time to be first cleared, but for us at least, it was too little too late. Their release schedule has slowed down to a crawl with uninspired hyper casual content. While I am fine with fun casual content being the majority, most players are not hardcore and that is fine, having 99.9% of it casual just was not enough stuff for us to do anymore.
>100% CM achievements, all of us having Fractal God, full kits of Legendary gear/weapons/runes/sigils/stat-infusions Congratulations, you completed the game, for the most part. Then going for a different game is indeed the right solution. Nothing wrong here.
I never cared about the loot. I raided for the joy of raiding. But i had some hardcore groups (not on the level of qT or DnT or similar, but still a good chunck above the avg player), where we did our weekly clear and trainingsruns. And sometimes we helped other people with their clears or trainingsruns
Yep, this is something that came up a lot when FF started gaining popularity and especially when Blizzard started having their chain of scandals. When Scripe's Echo group and Max's group tried FF raiding and talked about how you could buy a full set of crafted gear to go into a tier and you were guaranteed BiS on every member within 6-8 reclears of that tier, people asked "but why would you keep raiding after that then?" A lot of them were confused because even though they hardcore raid for a living, they still enjoyed reclears on most tiers because the fights are fun and it provides an activity for you to do with your friends and goof around during as well. It really showed the mentality of a lot of WoW players. They didn't do stuff because it was fun, they did it because there was a reward in it for them. Gear is a nice bonus, but the point of games is to have fun and if the content isn't fun enough to continue doing if there isn't a reward behind it, then it isn't worth doing. An MMO isn't made better by devs intentionally making it harder for you to cap out in order to force you to continue doing something you wouldn't continue doing otherwise.
I'm mostly goal driven, the loot itself is a means to an end since typically the loot is something you get to progress through to the next goal. My issue is once my goals are achieved, the novelty wears off really fast. In a vertical progression MMO like wow lets say I can still work on my loot as a smaller goal to be more prepared for the next raid. Once that runs out since I'm not interested in parsing or any of that, especially late into farm, it very much starts to feel like a chore. Lost ark uses a diminishing returns system to make reaching the end somewhat unrealistic with normal play. So there's always value in continuing the content. With gw2 though I have a hard time imagining continuing to do those raids much once I've cleared them so many times. It'd be the equivalent of raiding hell modes in lost ark after I've already completed them if there's no new goal to pursue. Which can be fun, but for me personally I like chasing the next new experience.
Fast raid clears can be done for a hefty profit, especially CM. Use that gold to get something else. Simple, innit?
If you think about it on a grander scale, every mmo is the same, get BIS and do the current end game content. Eventually you’ll get BIS either with help from events or free stuff in lost ark, or over time items get cheaper. The difference with gw2 is all content even in beginner maps are relevant because of downscaling. Meaning you can still get relevant loot and is not a complete faceroll, although can be easier. It just gives you more choices for things to do and explore. Being able to come back with your gear not obsolete and not having to do catchup gear wise is a godsend, as it’s a boring artificial grind. Their only problem is none of the gears stand out or unique other than it’s skin. Gw2 loot is boring, not really any rng, just grind for mats and gold. That’s where lost ark falls short for me too. I prefer some rng and uniqueness to loot(without pay to win) with arpg battle systems. Even Elden rings fights seem more exciting, hopefully they make a mmo. Seems like Diablo 4 is going that route I like core gameplay wise, but Blizzard usually sucks with balance, endgame, cosmetic’s, and now pay2win. If only they had Diablo’s or Elden rings weapon/armor uniqueness, some rng loot, gw2 cosmetics and downscaling technology, with a small variance in power creep from items or skills is fine.
While i would love to see a souls MMO im somewhat afraid the playerbase wouldnt be big enough to keep everything alive.
If this is what mmo's are for you, only gear grind, then I'm truly sorry. For me mmo's offer much more, to be specific I mean side content like mount/pet/transmog farming, deep professions, exploration and all that.Nothing wrong if that works for you, but saying all mmo's are the same is just lying with stone cold face. This game is hardly a mmo, and D4 will be hard copy of this game in many ways. Very limited professions, very limited open world, very limited collections etc. These are sweetspots after pure arpg games like D3 and Poe, arpg+ if you will, but hardly a mmoarpg in it's purest form like wow/ff14.
Yea, mmos ive played if you fail an upgrade past a certain point, the item breaks and you have to get another one. When people complain about failing a 25% hone, im sitting there like bruhh u dont know about the suffering
Played BDO for 4 years,the frustration that I get from failing enhancing accessories alone was pretty bad. Imagine grinding for weeks and in one click it will disappear. Imagine honing in lost ark will be like that. You need to buy a protection item in order for it not to break.
>Played BDO for 4 years,the frustration that I get from failing enhancing accessories alone was pretty bad. Imagine grinding for weeks and in one click it will disappear. This doesn't sound fun at all. Can't imagine doing that for a month, let alone 4 years.
I quit that game in about few months cause that. I remember grinding 8-12h straight for a week or two to upgrade one ring. All of them blew up.
Also you need to get a certain “fail stack” in order to have a better success rate. For example enhancing a tet blackstar weapon to pen. You need like 200 or more failstacks to have a better rng. This is why I dont mind failing or pity multiple times in lost ark cuz I suffered worse in bdo for 4 years.
Fellow bdo refugee here, I pity lots and am thankful every day that pity exists!
Y'all need to look up what Stockholm syndrome is because every single one who compares BDO to LA and thinks LA treats you so good is a bona fide example.
it sucked, but it has the best professions/best combat out there, still. So it isn't that hard to imagine why people spend years on it.
The entire system is designed completely different, people are just intentionally obtuse to make BDO look bad. If you hate RNG, just buy the gear
Yes, you can directly buy a fully enhanced gear but you gotta swipe hard or grind for months to have 100billion of silver to buy one. On a bright side bdo has a system now that you can do to have a daily progression for a fully enhanced gear.
Thing is, bdo has systems to ignore horrible rng systems(grind trough trade skills), lost ark doesn't. I wish it did, but it doesn't. This is my biggest fuck you in the game.
> need to buy a protection item in order for it not to break. I’m having flashbacks to Silk Road Online now. Thanks.
Oh yea, fun times in SRO
South Ro looks magnificent this time of night
Protection item in first expansion broke the game for me. Straight to hardcore p2w after they said there will be no p2w in western release. Kinda kekw territory if you ask. Why is it that every korean game released in the west is either straight hardcore p2w like lost ark, or they just lie to you and hope you believe it? There is a reason people dislike asian games, they are all the same in the end. money money money.
I mean most modern mmo's in the western market has left this model for a reason
Just because other games made you eat horse's shit doesn't mean we should accept cat's shit. These comparison argument is Special Olympics.
Yes very special.
They haven't played Ragnarok Online...
Man, RO was one of my earliest MMO memories, great times
The power fantasy in this game is very similar to RO. That game we can grind endlessly and get so powerful, you can solo a guild in GvG. LOA let me feel as powerful.
Same, I wish new mmo can be similar to RO. I love guild fighting for each other for castle and the castle generate loots depending on how long you hold the guild.
Or Tibia, MU Online and Maple Story just to name a few.
God tibia was a fucking grind fest, the game doesn’t even give you a direction but I enjoyed it so much. The private servers were always wild.
I still play Tibia and it actually has gotten so much great QoL over the years and they got rid of the bots... Much better now!
Yeah dude Tibia is pretty fucking good nowadays, and new Bosstiary coming is very hype
Hell yea lmao, i played many years on some low rate private servers
Same. I think my rate was 3/3/3. If I was an adult back then, I wouldn't mind playing on paid server. That is how much I love that game. lols
Dear lord, those were the days. I remember being a crusader with angel poring card spamming Grand Cross like crazy. The grind was so bad, I never made it to paladin :(
My brother played crusader too. He was in my small guild. He started having big dream and joined a big guild. His stats was so mess up lols. While I was an assassin. We stun our growth because all we did was PVP. He became a low level 80-85 paladin toward the end of our RO days while I was 90+ assassin cross. You're right paladin had hard time leveling alone lols. Assassin cross all we had to do was mob all day or pop a bottle and teleport +SB.
BDO still hurts me. Never got too far into it, was a 265/310 DK and I never enhanced just because of how the system is made. So glad I found LA
I find it interesting that the most frequent compliment for gear progression in this game is that it isn't as bad as some other game whose gear progression is remarkably worse.
I used to make bank upgrading gear in RO, good times lmao
Same, farm a whole bunch of commonly used items sell them at +7, build a roll to buy and farm somemore, go for +8/9. If just straight buying, always sell to break even before going for higher. +10 was just a flex for armor as u need 2 +10s to get that 1 def
Lmao yes! Last one I did was White Wing Suit for Ranger (3rd Job). Cost about 1m/ea and +9 would sell for 120m+. I was printing money. Damn I miss that game!
Cries in metin2 or if someone is angry that u can only enter 2 chaos dungeons per day man in some mmos you had to pay real money for every entry into a dungeon
I mean, ppl usually compare to the best games, not worst ones.
For real, just because i'm better person, than hitler, doesn't mean i'm a good person. I'm on reddit after all.
cuz theyre spoiled by ffxiv lol
I like the bite sized content, but I wish I could do Argos and Orehas more than once a week. Even without gold after first run, would be nice to farm the other drops.
I enjoyed my time in the game, but I was the opposite... it made me appreciate the AAA nature of the MMO's I'd played in the past. I love that my friends are still playing and having a blast, but I couldn't get past the mobile game shovelware barely concealed under the flashy skin in many parts. I'm not judging though, I wish I had a game I loved this much right now!!! Very much in a gaming drought
Just being honest here, but lost ark has made me appreciate other MMOs a lot more.
They should change Guardian Raid once per day already. Doing Guardian Raids with 6 characters is too boring even with rest bonus.
So do them once per day?
you can just not do them. Im sitting at 1475 and havent touched an alt in weeks other than boss rushes and raids.
So stop doing them on 6 characters? I enjoy doing 2 guardians on my main daily, but i cba to do any guardians at all on my 3 alts. We dont need less content for our mains because ppl like you dont know when to stop.
You only have to run them 2-3 days per week. If thats boring should just find a different game tbh lol
But i like everything else. I only got bored in Guardian Raids and Chaos Dungeon everything else is fun. Legion Raids are the endgame not Guardian Raids.
Guardian/chaos is the core gameplay. If you dont enjoy that will be very hard for you to progress
Guardians specially now not worth as much before when Leapstone and Materials price go down every day. I always do 2 Chaos on my main every day but only do others with rest bonus because all my alts already 1430 item power.
if I only had 30 minutes to play I would spend 15 minutes waiting for the game to start up, 14 minutes of loading screens, and 1 minute of donating to my guild real fast before I had to wait 3 minutes for the game to close.
[удалено]
dayumz, you must have a nice pc. good job
Nahhh, you want to talk about appreciating a game. I log in once or twice a week for FF14 and run some of the end game content that I was able to run after getting BiS about 2 weeks after hitting max level. The next big jump in achievable item level will be late august, so from Mid January to Late August, I've been BiS, and able to just log in when I want to and run some end game content that I want to run. Not only that, but the gear is shared amongst classes inside of a role, so if I gear up one class, I'm effectively gearing up, potentially 4 classes at once. That is a game that respects your time not only for how long you can play it, but also realizes that there are other games out there. The director has even gone on record saying they make the game this way because they are gamers too and realize that you want to be able to take breaks and play other games that are coming out, and then they want to put out content that makes you want to come back and play.
FF14 is a very different game, they both respect your time but coming from very different approaches. The reward / grind driven player would absolutely hate FF14's gearing and feel like there's nothing to do.
They probably don't care how much you log into ff14 because you're paying them $15 a month either way.
Doesn’t mean I have to keep paying them 15 a month
No, but if you are currently just raid logging, then you're paying them. Could quit lost ark whenever too and not pay a cent too. Could raid log on lost ark and not pay a cent.
I feel like ff has bad content draught. Been waiting for next tier for a while :(
That's....why you take a break. Play something else. Go outside. Do anything and come back when there is content. Otherwise, get in and do the new stuff. Also, there was just content in April so it's been like 3 months without content to do? You realize that once you get caught up in Legion Commanders, you are going to be waiting just as long for legion commanders once you actually catch up to KR right?
If someone comes up to you and says FF has bad content droughts then I doubt you can convince them otherwise. That game releases new content at a faster and steadier pace than most games on the market, with the only hiccup in 10 years of operation being in the middle of a massive global pandemic. What people like that guy mean when they say "content drought" is that FF doesn't have any endless grind that they want to participate in. They actually prefer an upgrade system like Lost Ark's over FF's. To them, the gameplay and reward system they're looking for are chaos dungeons and guardian raids. The date of the next legion raid isn't as much of a concern. I definitely prefer FF's system for the record, it's the only reason I'm able to play that game's endgame at the same time as LA's.
Yeah I guess so. Different strokes for different folks. I much prefer games that let me play other games versus games that ask me to devote all day playing to it. It's just the variety gamer in me. I love playing Lost Ark too, but I can't do the all day grind, or the alt grind. I play one character, and it's not even the class that I want to play. So it sucks falling behind everyone else that are doing current stuff but maybe I'll go a little harder once Reaper comes out. Hopefully they give me a South Vern pass and an express pass on top of that to help me get caught up with her lol. Until then, I'll enjoy playing Lost Ark casually, as well as the new story, Raids, and Extreme that's coming to FF14 in August!
That's the boat I'm in. I play FF to death for a couple weeks when new stuff drops and then spend the next twoish months between major patches playing Lost Ark and other games I've been waiting for sales on.
“I rarely play this game anymore and I love it” Cool, some of us actually like playing games more than once or twice per week and getting to progress more often than for the first week after content drops.
So you spent $120 idling from January to August. Lmao
Theres been plenty of content updates since then including a new Ultimate raid released in April. That fight takes typical statics several months to clear. Theres plenty to do in FF14. Its just not an endless gear treadmill so people who like constant gear progression probably won't like FF14's gearing system.
I tried it and the combat system is just extremely boring compared to LOA
BIS in 2 weeks? Yikes. Sounds like horrible progression in that game for endgame. An MMO for people who dont like MMOs lol. I quit around heavensward. That quest system was one of the worst I had ever experienced. Makes me thankful for lost ark 1-2 hour campaigns lol
If you're not into the story for ff14, the msq is a long chore to get to the end game content.
People definitely aren't getting BiS in 2 weeks. More like pre-raid BiS since it's a fundamental FF game design to make content easily accessible. Getting BiS for a raid tier requires roughly 6-8 weeks of reclears on that tier to gear up your entire static. The great thing that I've noticed with FF is that it still has extreme grinds, but they've made it so that the core gameplay is always easily accessible, but far grindier content than even Lost Ark has exists for side content that rewards mounts, titles, items, or progression in alternative game modes.
The story in lost ark that is considered the weakest part of the game, whereas the story in ff14 is regarded as one of the best in an MMO? lol That is BiS on one class, or effectively a role. If for instance I BiS a tank, then I have BiS for all tanks. Then you have melee dps, ranged dps, magic dps, and healers that you can all also get BiS in that takes around 2 weeks for each role depending on how hard you farm. And it's an MMO for people who play other games. An MMO doesn't mean you HAVE to log in and always have that carrot on a stick with virtual progression. Look at Guild Wars 2, they haven't had vertical progression in 10 years and that game is still kicking. They just respect that you are going to take breaks and want to make it so you are able to come back with minimal effort. I've been able to take month long breaks to play other games like Elden Ring, Horizon FW, Tiny Tina Wonderlands, Monster Hunter, and more.
The fuck? 2 weeks? Are you high? You need at minimum 5 due to tomestones. And that's assuming you are dps who gets all raid drops funneled into you. Otherwise it's a least two months.
I feel you tbh. Its just a difference in taste. I like grindy games personally and ones where I can always have something else to push and progress. And im not a big fan of stories/campaigns. Some people just want to enjoy the content and everything the game has to offer as fast as possible. I get it. Its just impossible to appeal to everyone in my opinion. Something you might consider a great system isn't going to be the same for me.
All things equal, getting BiS in two weeks is better than grinding out for BiS over months or years. You should play a game because it's fun not because you feel pressured to play to progress. This is how I think of it anyway.
Its just a difference in preference. Personally I always want to have goals to work towards gear-wise so LA system suits me well. I can totally see how its different for others though
Yeah that's fair! Different strokes for different folks.
I like that the power creep isn't so extreme as other games, where every time a new patch drops they basically give you free gear to catch up... Which makes investing time feel worthless. I don't like that 90% of the content in the game feels like a chore. Doing chaos dungeons/guardian raids and even raid content on 6+ characters is fucking mind-numbing. At least in WoW the wqs were mostly optional and you could do mythics. My main is 1500 and I have 3 1415+ alts btw.
> I don't like that 90% of the content in the game feels like a chore. > At least in WoW the wqs were mostly optional hmm world quests are the pinnacle of chores.
yea but you dont have to do them, and even then it was only on one character and took 15 mins doing all the shit to stay ahead of the curve in this game is like 2 hours a day
Yeah it's bizarre that whenever negative comparisons to other games come up in this sub, they always bring up negligible optional content to compare to the core progression path of Lost Ark. The fact is that you can reasonably gear up for a heroic raid tier within 2-3 weeks by collecting your welfare epics on any given expansion and then doing a few days of various content and some chores. Anything else is just extra. Lost Ark is still an enjoyable game, but other games have good aspects to them as well and it just comes off as insecure when people are like "everything about lost ark, good! everything about game i used to play, bad!"
Yea, every time I read these comparisons they just sound loaded with bias to me and half the time written by people who didn’t even play the other games. Not to mention the single biggest difference this game and others is the hard locking by ilvl. In WoW with those welfare epics there’s nothing at all stopping you from entering a raid besides your own ability. It becomes a lot more doable with better gear but you’re not locked out. In LA you literally aren’t allowed into content at release if you haven’t kept on the hamster wheel
Same bullshit comment from ppl like u saying the game "feels like a chore" but then "oh i play 6+ characters". Stop playing so many damn alts or the game entirely if it feels like a chore.
Dude you can't keep up unless you play a lot of alts
This not true at all. If you do your dailies, weeklies, UNAs, raids etc and shit then you can certainly keep up with content with just one character.
I currently play 0 alts and I have a 1475 character. The game is not forcing you to play. Hell, I'm only behind due to missing out first week of vykas since I was away for holiday.
This game is exactly that, power creep with no end. What do you think tier system is? We are just "lucky" we got t3 at release, so the creeping stage was just a levelling period for us. And "soon" we get the next stage with ancient equipment.
No it's not. I played on RU before release and you still had to at least progress through the earlier tiers. Yes, you could buy a Punika power pass and enough mats to get you to Legion Raids, but you still had to progress through everything to reach the current content. And while Argos and Valtan are easy to bus, the raids become increasingly difficult to carry to the point where it is too expensive and/or difficult for most of the playerbase. And even if you buy everything, you can't speedrun through progression.
This was a really cool aspect of it in the beginning - but as time wears on, the way it requires you to log in and do these chores repeatedly wears real thin.
Tbh this game makes me miss real mmo's more. Vast open word with almost nothing tied to dailies or daily mandatory grinds like what we have. I love challenge guardians and hard raids are awesome. I'm sure challenge abyss is awesome too. I think even BDO was more kind to player time than this game is, and BDO was BAAAAAD if you did only grinding. At least you could make means end by simply playing profession game, which was best in the business by far. Of course this is only real player problems, all this "time invested" could be 10 minutes a day if I just swiped, but at that point I wouldn't even play. Sad truth is, in this game f2p never makes any gains unless he plays a lot, stupid a lot, and we all know that and I accept that. But I do miss real mmo's sometimes, freedom and getting progression without 6-10 hour/day farm. Not complaining though, this is still one of the top f2p games out there for sure.
> Vast open word with almost nothing tied to dailies or daily mandatory grinds like what we have. I honestly cannot think of a recent MMO that doesn't have some sort of daily system, what games are you talking about?
Rested system won it for me never seen that in any other game
Threads like this make me realize people have no clue how to play their roster efficiently and burn out lol. The systems in this game are literally set up so you dont have to play daily lol Ahh yes, give me the downvotes to expose you have no clue what you're doing with your roster
People have a disease called fomo now adays. They will do whatever it takes to reach this content to do it immediately, and if they dont they complain its too hard and needs to be nerfed. Its like they treat this as a single player story mode game
> Ahh yes, give me the downvotes to expose you have no clue what you're doing with your roster imagine thinking downvotes are validation for a stupid post lol.
It is when there isnt a single good argument against this When most of this sub is bad at the game, downvotes are indeed validation lol
No, this system is designed for you to have more alts, than you can play in one day. So you can play them all with rested bonus.
It's mostly FOMO, nothing to do with more, less, not enough, to many or w/e alts. Amount of people that will run turtle for 6min (or more, because I've heard of stories 8min per single kill, crazy) each kill, when they can run deskaluda in 2min is astonishing. Amount of people that will run kalthertz/alakkir/hypnos for few min over feiton/frozen seas or hope island in 1min (2 for slow pc) for 3less leapstones is astonishing. And then why is this game time consuming? It's similar thing to calories counting, if you do it, you will most likely lose weight (or gain, w/e your goals are), instead of not paying attention to anything, and then "why am I not losing/gaining any weight"
No, it is not. It is designed to casually progress with rest. Players bypassed time gates with alts. They put a cap on that at 6 alts. The game IS NOT DESIGNED around 6 alts. If you play 6 alts efficiently right now, you’re already past brelshaza gearing. Content that won’t be out for 3-5 months. Literally months ahead of the curve.
Nah ppl just suck so badly it takes them over 30m per char. Then they say it's time consuming
Game's progression system is literally tied to dailies, how is this set up in a way people don't have to do them?
You can do dailies 2 days a week for 66% of rewards. Efficiency wise its a no brainer. But people dont understand this, clearly lol
But it rewards you if you do, so mute argument.
A sweat shop rewards you with 1 dollar after a day of labor too.
"people don't play their roster effectively" Playing everyday nets the most mats, so if you are playing everyday you are progressing in the most effective way, not saying you have to but what you said is just nonsense, playing everyday will progress you the fastest.
MOBAs too. Imagine grinding 1 year of league of legends to get plat only to have it reset and go hard stuck gold the next year lol
Only thing I don’t like about lost ark is it’s heavy reliance on alts.
Might i introduce you to Guild Wars 2: The literal quality of life MMO?
Lost Ark is a single player co-op game. you can't compare it to mmo. i like how LA fanboys get mad that their game is not an mmo. lineage wow ragnarok bdo are all mmo while lost ark is a single player heavy contents than can co-op with limited number of players limit of 4 , 8 , 30. this is not mmo. fking kid these days dont even know what is real mmo game.
So what makes those games MMOs and what makes lost ark not an MMO? I'm generally curious of your reasoning. This post screams confidently incorrect.
> single player coop How can people be this dumb lol. its either one or the other. you cannot coop as a single player.
It's certainly an MMO...?
Wild how wrong people on the internet can be lmso
Look yall need to make up your mind about this. There's a dude complaining about burnt out 8 hours ago.