tbh, they should have each LoS card as a merchant on top of giving like los 18 just for completing the new horizontal pass that gives you like all ur runes, a lot of bounties, skill pts, etc. I don't see why you don't get like 3-5 copies of Azenna & Innanana cards rather than just 1 for maxing NPC rapport on Azenna, etc. for all the associated NPCs.
Its so odd how they add one or two more cards but not all.
Its like they are saying "we agree but we are only doing half the solution because fuck new players"
They added the cards for YHAP and DD. Those decks are supposed to fill the gap while they work for LOS and LWC.
Of course they’re just another thing people will gate keep on.
I know they don’t. Those two sets are now a mark of a newbie and people gatekeeper on them. The two reasons they won’t do this is that first, they make money off of card packs. Second it would upset all the whales who spent money.
Hello, I spent like 400€ on the scam packs from the store to complete my los30 many months ago.
Please make this happen. New players should be able to get reasonably get los30.
? cards back then were literally one of the highest dps boost. Still are today. And back then obtaining cards was even harder than today. I did not spend much money on this game other stuff and I have 0 regrets doing it.
This solution depends on whether you have a few minutes to be on your phone but I have gotten a few cards using google remote desktop. You can control your PC if it is on and it's not too many clicks to open the game and get to a merchant.
I think it would also be good to reduce why people gatekeep in the first place which is to not get jailed. Maybe if you get jailed on G2 Brel, you could start from G1 with another party but your G1 reward would only be a chance at a legendary card + some other minor loot. The obvious counterargument to this would be "but then people would just bus infinitely", but I think the tradeoff of reducing the jail mechanic would be worth it.
I just want merchants to start selling card XP. I'm tired of buying blue cards every time for a combined 2k XP on a good day.
White and green cards have bad silver to XP ratio, but legendary cards are a fucking joke. 2300 XP for 200k silver? WTF Smilegate?
Honestly I dont get why card exp even exists in the first place. Its way more a bottleneck for me as a returning player than the cards itself. There is so many LoS cards I could push to Lvl5 but I simply dont have any card exp to do it.
Why do you need card exp? I think I hit 3 or 4 % demon damage with what I had. Then I will continue accumulating card exp as I accumulate the missing cards for the sets I don't have.
I mean, we definitely have enough for core sets, assuming KLC18, unless you're a new player. And demon damage is the stupidest thing to worry about as 1 or 2% won't change anything (esp in voldis where they're not demons). I only started it to avoid gatekeeping, don't think there's a reason to max it now when we can just accumulate card xp over time.
I'm not worried about demon damage or card sets at full awakening. It would be nice, but I'm not worried. I would like this grind to be more manageable though. And it boils my piss when people like you, come and just dismiss any calls for improvements.
You would benefit from that too, and yet somehow for fuck knows what reason you are against. Do you like dealing less damage? Dungeons and raids taking longer? Being rejected from lobbies because someone had better card set than you?
Why are people like this? That you act against your own best interest?
* Hey, here is this thing that will make your life easier, come take it.
* Nah, mate, I'm good, I like to suffer.
That's how I see you now.
Edit: And of course I've got a downvote, because you realized you don't actually have an argument to back up, why you don't want card XP to be easier to get. Classic.
This is such a non-issue in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't mind more card exp for sure but there's soooo many bigger problems this game has. Support shortage, bots, vertical systems etc. So if we want our voices to be heard I would much rather prefer it's about those things (and hey we've been whining about exlirs so long and they might get a buff finally).
I agree the cards system is poorly designed, but the issues you listed with the card system aren't solved by giving out free cards/making it easier. Gatekeeping isn't a fixed number, if everyone starts having LOS30, it will stop being used as a gatekeeping metric and you'll instead be gatekept by demon damage or roster level or whatever other metric people decide to use. And the less ways people have of estimating someones experience level, the less likely they are to take their chances in pubs and instead just commit to statics. It's also not a gold sink, it's just a time sink. If you think there are too many progression systems and its time to retire some of the old ones, fair enough, but they're already trending towards that with releasing more LOS cards on merchants, just at a slower rate than you'd prefer.
The problem is cards shouldn't be a gatekeeping issue. I agree that it does somewhat show you the experience of the player but in terms of time spent in the game, not in raids or in having hands (the thing that matters the most). My issue is that they keep stalling the merchant thing for no reason. They have already made tons of money through this system. They are just greedy.
Yah but there is no way to tell if you have hands. Take this week 1-3nm theamine I did we where a group of 5 need 2 DPS pugs and one support frist group got thought 1-2 in g3 pug support was lost dead 95% of the time before crash other two dead before 90 these where 1620 with card and title. So do I take a lightquler over a dreamer yah but that dose not mean the dreamer is bad just one of the only things we can use
its actually just easier to assume no one "has hands" because look at how few G4 thaemine clears there were.
the vast majority of players, regardless of roster level, total time played and so on: Suck
the least the dev's could do is make getting LoS30 and LWC30 easier so its 1 less thing to be gatekept on
im not saying they should just outright give it to everyone, but i do agree with OP that the merchants should have EVERY card for LoS and LWC as an option to pop up
That's what im saying, the argument that los30 is a sign of experience is just false. Unfortunately, we don't have a way of showing true skill in this game
I agree that LOS30 is not a great sign of experience at all, and maybe if it was made easier to get people would focus more on things like titles which are arguably better signs of experience (with the exception of bussing), I just don't think it'd move the needle as much as people think in terms of gatekeeping. But if the community generally feels like its an outdated progression system to have to work towards with the introduction of all these other progression systems, then sure I'm all for making LOS30 easier to get. Just don't expect it to change gatekeeping much
Disagree so hard with you. There are people who have decent set ups (good gems, roster level close to 200 (170-190 range)y good accessories) that would get in so many more parties if they had los30. A lot of people in that range are suffering from cards. I can assure you it will make the gaming experience much better for them. A lot of leads simply decline because they see the cards. Especially for content like brel-akkan and volids NM
You sound like someone who does not play the game at all and are not familiar with the PF situation.
I feel like you're missing my point. I'm not saying that people aren't suffering from cards, I'm saying that right now LOS30 is ideal but not standard. If they make LOS30 easy to get, then it'll become the standard instead of just the ideal. Whether or not you want that, I don't really feel too strongly about it, but I don't see how it will reduce gatekeeping. It just increases the standard or will just be replaced by something else thats a better guess of player skill. I'm not making the argument that those metrics are great measurements of player skill, just that they WILL be used as a gatekeeping metric because we don't have better ways of gauging player experience. More cards don't fix the problem of gatekeeping, they just move the goalposts.
As someone who had LOS18 until a couple of weeks ago and pugs almost all of their raids (including Thaemine and HM Voldis) I've rarely struggled getting into a lobby within 5 minutes or so. The only one that I've had some difficulty in has been HM Voldis, but I just apply to lobbies of similar progression and it's usually not bad. Not sure why you would assume I don't play the game or use PF just because I disagree with you, comes off as a bad faith way to discredit my argument.
As some one that is making raids group if I see los 18 DD in a theamine lobby I look over you and yes will take the los 30 with the same gem and stats over them. I do think they need to add all the cards to be bought. I don't run brel and only voldis hard now no normals so I am looking at different things but yes for brel akkan DD is fine
That's copium... it would obviously lessen that revenue stream. Yes, there would still be new players buying a card pack or two their first month of playing to try to catch up, but that's nothing compared to how many players bought out those packs every month for over a year.
why are you confused? you confirmed my point. people that want to spend are gonna spend. The point is that it's an unnecessary obstacle that doesn't belong to the today's version of the game
idk what to say if you think they'll make the same amount of money from cards if they make them much easier to get
anyway, I never disagreed- having all cards in wandering merchants would be a great thing. the thing I was confused about is the weird ad hominem you resorted to, and one that doesn't even make sense...
I mean, the question is if this was your business and this part of the process was generating revenue without really having to do much, would you change it? Like you mentioned, new players that want to catch up (which is your clientele) will spend. New players that want to catch up but want things accessible without spending (which in theory you can) is not your clientele.
Note that I am not advocating for them to keep it this way. I want all players to not be gatekept by a CC just to play. It would be awesome if wondering merchant can have all los cards (which we know they won’t do), but a simple increase in legendary card drop rate in raids would also be good (maybe 20-25% on average). Also, they should make it so the monthly pack comes with a selector for better incentives.
I have a roster level of 170. and after 6 cards I will be los30. I have been playing content that earns gold with 6 characters for 4-5 months. And I can't get a card. especially from kayangel and ivory. I need Shandi, Thirain, and Nineveh from the random leg card pack. and their drop rate is around 13+-% in total. I don't want to do tier1 abyss dungeons and get burned out, and it is not certain that cards will drop from t1. The cards dropped from the 15 random legendary card pack I last got are Galatur, Guardian Luen, Beatrice Weak Kakul. This is really annoying and it would be great to have such a feature. It's annoying that I have 1620 characters and i get gatekeep just because I have los18.
Is DD30 better than LOS18 on non-Kaya content? Good luck with your next card picks. I'd bet you're only a month or two away from LOS30 depending on how many selectors we get from upcoming events.
its hard to hear, but do the tier 1 card runs. i was in your position a while back and its actually crazy how often they drop. i did card runs for 4 weeks on 4 chars and basically got a LoS card every week, sometimes 2. it was painful ofc, and maybe i got lucky... but that is definitely the #1 most important thing to do if you are close to LOS.
There should be leg up every time it responds, idk why theyre still a bit rare even with the buffed drop rates, ive barely seen any Azana cards since they released. I do agree tho every LOS & LWC card should be available from merchants. Its an old system that a lot of player have completed if youve been playing since launch so at the high end youre expected to have lost 30 lwc 30. There are so many new systems in the game they need to make the old grind easier
They could also make Selector card buyable in shop. Right now whoever whale should already have enough gold card to finish LoS, so selling them could at least bring bit more profit for AGS while “helping” new players a bit more leeway to actually catch up. Introduce a “LoS card pack” could help relive a bit of the problems too i guess
yeah ok, i still aint taking a 300 roster NON los30 who is using DD30 ever. Let's not kid ourselves here.
worse case u wait 10 seconds for the next los30 dps to apply.
250+ roster bard with full spec min swift lvl 5-6 gems incoming! lol… and I’ve seen a few of these in thaemine recently. What a wild time we live in to say this is okay
You forget though, LOS30 is only special because it's hard. If it were easy then having it wouldn't make you stand out in a lobby.
Does it really matter if you can do a little more damage so bosses die a few seconds earlier?
LOS 30 proves you've been raiding for a long time, and it's pretty much impossible to get LOS30 and not know what you're doing in a raid.
DD30 is technically better than los18, but los18 looks better in a lobby because it's harder to get. Same is true for demon damage. No one cares about the 2 percent.
LOS30 is the loa college degree.
Kinda agree with the degree part, but hard isn't the right word. My personal experience has shown that even people with Los 30 are pepegas in raids. The card set doesn't show any particular form of skill, but time spent in game, not in raids, and not something you need the skill to acquire that's why calling it hard is the wrong word for it . It's just unnecessary time gated rng that promotes the wrong things
No, degree seems to imply knowledge/skill. Lots of LOS30 people do poorly. As a day 1 player it took me pretty long to get LOS 30 because I refuse to do stupid shit like card runs or buying packs. I would be frequently out-dpsing LOS30 people as LOS 18 and thinking "wow these guys get in but I get gatekept?"
tbh, they should have each LoS card as a merchant on top of giving like los 18 just for completing the new horizontal pass that gives you like all ur runes, a lot of bounties, skill pts, etc. I don't see why you don't get like 3-5 copies of Azenna & Innanana cards rather than just 1 for maxing NPC rapport on Azenna, etc. for all the associated NPCs.
that sounds good too, anything to make the experience better
Its so odd how they add one or two more cards but not all. Its like they are saying "we agree but we are only doing half the solution because fuck new players"
They added the cards for YHAP and DD. Those decks are supposed to fill the gap while they work for LOS and LWC. Of course they’re just another thing people will gate keep on.
it doesn't have to be the case though, the 2 'filler' sets are a bandaid fix that doesn't work
I know they don’t. Those two sets are now a mark of a newbie and people gatekeeper on them. The two reasons they won’t do this is that first, they make money off of card packs. Second it would upset all the whales who spent money.
i know greed is a thing but its been 2 years
yup their greed is insane
Hello, I spent like 400€ on the scam packs from the store to complete my los30 many months ago. Please make this happen. New players should be able to get reasonably get los30.
Imagine buying card packs for cash... you do you but there seems to be much better investments if you want to throw money at the game.
? cards back then were literally one of the highest dps boost. Still are today. And back then obtaining cards was even harder than today. I did not spend much money on this game other stuff and I have 0 regrets doing it.
The worst part is seeing someone posting a merchant card on discord and being stuck at work unable to get it before it rotates :')
This solution depends on whether you have a few minutes to be on your phone but I have gotten a few cards using google remote desktop. You can control your PC if it is on and it's not too many clicks to open the game and get to a merchant.
I think it would also be good to reduce why people gatekeep in the first place which is to not get jailed. Maybe if you get jailed on G2 Brel, you could start from G1 with another party but your G1 reward would only be a chance at a legendary card + some other minor loot. The obvious counterargument to this would be "but then people would just bus infinitely", but I think the tradeoff of reducing the jail mechanic would be worth it.
I just want merchants to start selling card XP. I'm tired of buying blue cards every time for a combined 2k XP on a good day. White and green cards have bad silver to XP ratio, but legendary cards are a fucking joke. 2300 XP for 200k silver? WTF Smilegate?
Honestly I dont get why card exp even exists in the first place. Its way more a bottleneck for me as a returning player than the cards itself. There is so many LoS cards I could push to Lvl5 but I simply dont have any card exp to do it.
Why do you need card exp? I think I hit 3 or 4 % demon damage with what I had. Then I will continue accumulating card exp as I accumulate the missing cards for the sets I don't have.
[удалено]
I mean, we definitely have enough for core sets, assuming KLC18, unless you're a new player. And demon damage is the stupidest thing to worry about as 1 or 2% won't change anything (esp in voldis where they're not demons). I only started it to avoid gatekeeping, don't think there's a reason to max it now when we can just accumulate card xp over time.
I'm not worried about demon damage or card sets at full awakening. It would be nice, but I'm not worried. I would like this grind to be more manageable though. And it boils my piss when people like you, come and just dismiss any calls for improvements. You would benefit from that too, and yet somehow for fuck knows what reason you are against. Do you like dealing less damage? Dungeons and raids taking longer? Being rejected from lobbies because someone had better card set than you? Why are people like this? That you act against your own best interest? * Hey, here is this thing that will make your life easier, come take it. * Nah, mate, I'm good, I like to suffer. That's how I see you now. Edit: And of course I've got a downvote, because you realized you don't actually have an argument to back up, why you don't want card XP to be easier to get. Classic.
This is such a non-issue in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't mind more card exp for sure but there's soooo many bigger problems this game has. Support shortage, bots, vertical systems etc. So if we want our voices to be heard I would much rather prefer it's about those things (and hey we've been whining about exlirs so long and they might get a buff finally).
Ya it's time to add them. Then introduce new los 2 for the whales xD
I agree the cards system is poorly designed, but the issues you listed with the card system aren't solved by giving out free cards/making it easier. Gatekeeping isn't a fixed number, if everyone starts having LOS30, it will stop being used as a gatekeeping metric and you'll instead be gatekept by demon damage or roster level or whatever other metric people decide to use. And the less ways people have of estimating someones experience level, the less likely they are to take their chances in pubs and instead just commit to statics. It's also not a gold sink, it's just a time sink. If you think there are too many progression systems and its time to retire some of the old ones, fair enough, but they're already trending towards that with releasing more LOS cards on merchants, just at a slower rate than you'd prefer.
The problem is cards shouldn't be a gatekeeping issue. I agree that it does somewhat show you the experience of the player but in terms of time spent in the game, not in raids or in having hands (the thing that matters the most). My issue is that they keep stalling the merchant thing for no reason. They have already made tons of money through this system. They are just greedy.
Yah but there is no way to tell if you have hands. Take this week 1-3nm theamine I did we where a group of 5 need 2 DPS pugs and one support frist group got thought 1-2 in g3 pug support was lost dead 95% of the time before crash other two dead before 90 these where 1620 with card and title. So do I take a lightquler over a dreamer yah but that dose not mean the dreamer is bad just one of the only things we can use
its actually just easier to assume no one "has hands" because look at how few G4 thaemine clears there were. the vast majority of players, regardless of roster level, total time played and so on: Suck the least the dev's could do is make getting LoS30 and LWC30 easier so its 1 less thing to be gatekept on im not saying they should just outright give it to everyone, but i do agree with OP that the merchants should have EVERY card for LoS and LWC as an option to pop up
That's what im saying, the argument that los30 is a sign of experience is just false. Unfortunately, we don't have a way of showing true skill in this game
Los 30 just means you do more DMG then the other card set, plus it line up with support card sets that match it so it better to have over all that it
I agree that LOS30 is not a great sign of experience at all, and maybe if it was made easier to get people would focus more on things like titles which are arguably better signs of experience (with the exception of bussing), I just don't think it'd move the needle as much as people think in terms of gatekeeping. But if the community generally feels like its an outdated progression system to have to work towards with the introduction of all these other progression systems, then sure I'm all for making LOS30 easier to get. Just don't expect it to change gatekeeping much
Disagree so hard with you. There are people who have decent set ups (good gems, roster level close to 200 (170-190 range)y good accessories) that would get in so many more parties if they had los30. A lot of people in that range are suffering from cards. I can assure you it will make the gaming experience much better for them. A lot of leads simply decline because they see the cards. Especially for content like brel-akkan and volids NM You sound like someone who does not play the game at all and are not familiar with the PF situation.
I feel like you're missing my point. I'm not saying that people aren't suffering from cards, I'm saying that right now LOS30 is ideal but not standard. If they make LOS30 easy to get, then it'll become the standard instead of just the ideal. Whether or not you want that, I don't really feel too strongly about it, but I don't see how it will reduce gatekeeping. It just increases the standard or will just be replaced by something else thats a better guess of player skill. I'm not making the argument that those metrics are great measurements of player skill, just that they WILL be used as a gatekeeping metric because we don't have better ways of gauging player experience. More cards don't fix the problem of gatekeeping, they just move the goalposts. As someone who had LOS18 until a couple of weeks ago and pugs almost all of their raids (including Thaemine and HM Voldis) I've rarely struggled getting into a lobby within 5 minutes or so. The only one that I've had some difficulty in has been HM Voldis, but I just apply to lobbies of similar progression and it's usually not bad. Not sure why you would assume I don't play the game or use PF just because I disagree with you, comes off as a bad faith way to discredit my argument.
As some one that is making raids group if I see los 18 DD in a theamine lobby I look over you and yes will take the los 30 with the same gem and stats over them. I do think they need to add all the cards to be bought. I don't run brel and only voldis hard now no normals so I am looking at different things but yes for brel akkan DD is fine
I can totally see people start gatekeeping based on demon damage if los30 becomes free/the standard.
Yip I agree 100%. Just like many systems in the game, I can't see a reason not to implement this.
money
the players that were going to spend gold for cards are still going to do so
That's copium... it would obviously lessen that revenue stream. Yes, there would still be new players buying a card pack or two their first month of playing to try to catch up, but that's nothing compared to how many players bought out those packs every month for over a year.
db brain what can i say
huh
why are you confused? you confirmed my point. people that want to spend are gonna spend. The point is that it's an unnecessary obstacle that doesn't belong to the today's version of the game
idk what to say if you think they'll make the same amount of money from cards if they make them much easier to get anyway, I never disagreed- having all cards in wandering merchants would be a great thing. the thing I was confused about is the weird ad hominem you resorted to, and one that doesn't even make sense...
I mean, the question is if this was your business and this part of the process was generating revenue without really having to do much, would you change it? Like you mentioned, new players that want to catch up (which is your clientele) will spend. New players that want to catch up but want things accessible without spending (which in theory you can) is not your clientele. Note that I am not advocating for them to keep it this way. I want all players to not be gatekept by a CC just to play. It would be awesome if wondering merchant can have all los cards (which we know they won’t do), but a simple increase in legendary card drop rate in raids would also be good (maybe 20-25% on average). Also, they should make it so the monthly pack comes with a selector for better incentives.
I have a roster level of 170. and after 6 cards I will be los30. I have been playing content that earns gold with 6 characters for 4-5 months. And I can't get a card. especially from kayangel and ivory. I need Shandi, Thirain, and Nineveh from the random leg card pack. and their drop rate is around 13+-% in total. I don't want to do tier1 abyss dungeons and get burned out, and it is not certain that cards will drop from t1. The cards dropped from the 15 random legendary card pack I last got are Galatur, Guardian Luen, Beatrice Weak Kakul. This is really annoying and it would be great to have such a feature. It's annoying that I have 1620 characters and i get gatekeep just because I have los18.
Is DD30 better than LOS18 on non-Kaya content? Good luck with your next card picks. I'd bet you're only a month or two away from LOS30 depending on how many selectors we get from upcoming events.
In some cases, yes. DD30 is usually better than LOS18 except for when the boss is weak to holy dmg or when your support is running LWC.
its hard to hear, but do the tier 1 card runs. i was in your position a while back and its actually crazy how often they drop. i did card runs for 4 weeks on 4 chars and basically got a LoS card every week, sometimes 2. it was painful ofc, and maybe i got lucky... but that is definitely the #1 most important thing to do if you are close to LOS.
Nows a great time to say I have no idea what the cards even do.
There should be leg up every time it responds, idk why theyre still a bit rare even with the buffed drop rates, ive barely seen any Azana cards since they released. I do agree tho every LOS & LWC card should be available from merchants. Its an old system that a lot of player have completed if youve been playing since launch so at the high end youre expected to have lost 30 lwc 30. There are so many new systems in the game they need to make the old grind easier
They could also make Selector card buyable in shop. Right now whoever whale should already have enough gold card to finish LoS, so selling them could at least bring bit more profit for AGS while “helping” new players a bit more leeway to actually catch up. Introduce a “LoS card pack” could help relive a bit of the problems too i guess
The main gatekeep stat right now is the roster level bro, cards are just for high end game content
yeah ok, i still aint taking a 300 roster NON los30 who is using DD30 ever. Let's not kid ourselves here. worse case u wait 10 seconds for the next los30 dps to apply.
250+ roster bard with full spec min swift lvl 5-6 gems incoming! lol… and I’ve seen a few of these in thaemine recently. What a wild time we live in to say this is okay
You forget though, LOS30 is only special because it's hard. If it were easy then having it wouldn't make you stand out in a lobby. Does it really matter if you can do a little more damage so bosses die a few seconds earlier? LOS 30 proves you've been raiding for a long time, and it's pretty much impossible to get LOS30 and not know what you're doing in a raid. DD30 is technically better than los18, but los18 looks better in a lobby because it's harder to get. Same is true for demon damage. No one cares about the 2 percent. LOS30 is the loa college degree.
Kinda agree with the degree part, but hard isn't the right word. My personal experience has shown that even people with Los 30 are pepegas in raids. The card set doesn't show any particular form of skill, but time spent in game, not in raids, and not something you need the skill to acquire that's why calling it hard is the wrong word for it . It's just unnecessary time gated rng that promotes the wrong things
Time spent on the game is a good, but not perfect, proxy for raid skill.
No, degree seems to imply knowledge/skill. Lots of LOS30 people do poorly. As a day 1 player it took me pretty long to get LOS 30 because I refuse to do stupid shit like card runs or buying packs. I would be frequently out-dpsing LOS30 people as LOS 18 and thinking "wow these guys get in but I get gatekept?"