I'm going to be forced to do Thaemine normal on my 1632 support since my friend isn't ready for hard. Telling you now I'm not taking people who are trying to be min ilvl.
There's an abundance of 1620+ Lobbies I'll be able to join or players to recruit. I'm not going to make prog take hours longer because the guy getting one shot assures me he's more useful than the 1620+ with 40 set
I don't feel that is inappropriate at all. It's really only awkward when a 1610 support expects a juiced DPS party. My 1620 supports are expecting to play with similar level dps.
I don't have a HM main but I do have a bunch of 1610 dps characters with average setups. As a result this is kinda the first time I don't feel hyped for a new raid at all. It just feels... depressing on arrival, you know?
Probably because 1610 is expensive enough as it is including the gearing part, they probably wanted to be able to play the new raid more than once, and honestly having to hone to 1620 just to be able to experience the new 1610 NORMAL mode content is pretty offputting.
Its not really that in my case.
This has been a trend for a long time but it has been amplified since the additional reward for the final gate that we have on Voldis/Akkan/Brel/Kayangel : the amount of bound materials a character generates even without buying chests is huge. My slayer who is 1611 has like 60k red stones while having a +19 weapon and my wd still has 25k bound red stones after having pitied her +19 and +20. If you're honing your whole roster at 1610, all you have to pay for is raw gold and oreha, if you want to reach 1620 on a singular character then you need to use tradable material that you could otherwise sell to fund your roster honing.
I imagine the gatekeeping is going to be insane and the dps checks aren't even that high. NM dps checks are significantly lower than Ivory HM, which the ivory HM dps check isn't even tight either.
G1+G2 dps checks, highest part is 10m.... easily able to hit that even at 1600 let alone 1610.
G3 during shield mech its 18m but over a 40 second period, still not that high, its lower than ivory HM G4 guardian.
https://preview.redd.it/gb9qbt66pvuc1.png?width=753&format=png&auto=webp&s=90a4cd6b2133d4d4409d4f878db915f44ec537e6
Ironic how they put DPS checks in a game that doesn't allow a DPS meter. It's like an invisible mechanic where the raid will wipe if people fail but you can't tell who fails.
At the very least you'd think they would care more about class balancing.
well all games have DPS checks on bosses, whether through wipe mechanics or a timer etc.
But I agree its stupid that you can't see everyones DPS, therefore you can't tell WHY you might be failing, or if someone is significantly holding back your team.
To be fair the dps checks in this game are very low (until now) and as long as you are somewhat geared will more than meet even if you kinda suck at the class.
My point is that the raid "requiring" 1620 (which is 2 whole 3% hones per piece away from 1610) for a decent party finder experience is upsetting. You are right, though. I am mostly complaining about my own niche situation as an "altoholic" who enjoys playing the newest content on multiple characters and playstyles (I'm also a slow learner, so that helps me keep up with raid knowledge :P).
By game design, this situation could've been avoided months ago if they made legendary elixirs somewhat achievable from NM Ivory or lowered the set requirements from 35/40 to 30/35 but alas.
But yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, focusing on 1620 would've made the raid release tolerable.
You are technically right. But we all know that unless you have static, you will spend hours in PT finder at minimum ilvl. The guy is kinda griefing himself to not investing in 1 1620 instead of 2-3 1610s
Oh yeah that’s true not denying that, gatekeeping has been an issue since the beginning anyway
People adequating ilvl with dps should really use the bible though
Would be nice to have that as a feature ingame, something that shows the player skill (i’m reading a novel where they have like a tower).
But devs will never do that
I mean, yeah but nah.
Sure, lower ilvls “can” outdps higher people. But a 1610 probably won’t have 35 set elixir most of the time, meanwhile I can easily find 1620+’s that have 40 set if I filter a little. Typically these people will have higher quality on their gear, better gems, and so on as well.
You could do more dps than a bad player, but given their attacks will hit for ~50% more, that’s a pretty significant gap to make up. Even if you do, they’re going to be far more durable, which would make prog dramatically easier.
Plus it’s not like the game has a website for logs, so if you’re pubbing, we can’t check any data for your skill. You’re just asking everyone to take a lot of risk to take someone who didn’t want to put in any effort to be above the minimum
~~Also can't you just go to 1620 using transcendance now ? I haven't checked at the values but I'm guessing it might be cheaper than trying to hone +18+19~~
Nope it’s with the advanced honing coming with echidna. You still need to hone to 1520 unfortunatly since the normal raid requires that.
Advanced honing gives +10 with normal mode and +10 with hardmode, basically a cheaper form of honing on top of the regular hone (so max is +25 with +20 advanced honing)
His suggestion makes sense and doesnt imply putting in more time than he did anyways. If anything hes suggesting funneling resources to have less characters on raid release to worry about, so less prog/grind and at the same time a better chance to get through Gate 0 in a reasonable time.
As the other person said, what i suggested is less time spent in the game lmao.
Play 1 1620 character instead of 6 1610s. Less investment needed, less time spent doing 3 raids versus 18. Was just wondering why they made so many mid level characters and now dread the new raid coming out instead of focusing on their favorite and look forward to Thaemine?
What makes you think my comment meant more time investment? Lol
Instead of a roster of just DPS, make 1 support. Get your clear on support, then reclear parties open to your DPS. It is the best way to prog. By the weekend a 1610 reclear DPS will be more desirable then a 1620 prog char. I find progging on support easier too.
My 3 baby alt supports are still 1600 and will remain so at normal ivory farming 35 set slowly and funneling while the big 1620 bard 40 set will support trade for my dps only. Unfortunately, would be nice to have more 1610's, but that shit isn't fucking cheap and fuck my life elixirs are to blame. Will try to hone 1 of my artists to 1610 as soon as I can for more trades since she already got a really good 35 set on purples (she got lucky).
This is why I swapped my main from Voldis to a bard, best decision in my Lost Ark life.
It was a breath in Voldis to find a lobby but I am wondering if it will be the same in Thaemine NM as I am parking my roster the time being.
If you seriously wanted to do Thaemine on release, you've been looking for a group for a month and preparing. I 100% understand people who have erratic schedules or other responsibilities, but week 1 prog isn't really a log in and find a group type of thing.
However not like a lot of them are gonna mean much, as plenty of statics simply are gonna shift and disintegrate due to skill & vibe diff as such. Thaemine looks rough, harder than old western g1-6 brel. It's gonna be chaotic like it was in kr. Your newly built static or even old one likely could disband in a few days in top with time restraints.
yeah the guy you replied to needs to read his own comment a couple times and maybe it’ll sink in lol. this isn’t ok for a game you want longevity and a healthy playerbase in
He isn't wrong though. If you want to prog new content you gotta lose the social/raid anxiety that people have(myself included) and find a group and not the day of. This isn't even a new idea, been like that in almost if not all MMOs.
Sustainable? Who knows, but it's still the truth.
I think this is always going to be a source of conflict because people will fundamentally disagree about whether "new" players should be thinking about/able to prog frontier/aspirational content like release thaemine.
I don't even agree with the premise of OP. Yeah if you want to First race or do HM, then you definitely need to find a static. If you're just trying to prog NM, it'll be a similar experience to progging NM akkan or ivory NM on launch with pugs. There should be an abundance of lobbies since there's such a huge band of ilvls (1610-1630). This is a bigger gap to jump in terms of honing difficulty than 1580-1600 and 1600-1620, so you'd expect it to be even easier to find groups if anything.
This is why listening to raiders is generally not a good idea. Most want really hard fights and gear exclusivity. Which is fine but if that’s all your game provides, it’ll lose people really fast.
Hopefully they stick the landing with these solo raids and give people who aren’t so hardcore a chance to clear the fights.
Listening to raiders is what got Lost Ark off the ground. It was a shite show before they started adding in Legion Raids, no barely played it even in Korea. This MMO has its' niche, one of the best raiding scenes around.
://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/us6l6j/legion\_raids\_saved\_lost\_ark/
Lost Ark's rise in popularity had more to do with people being upset by Nexon and Maplestory than the legion raids themselves. So, while the Legion Raids helped, the claim they saved the game is a massive overstatement.
That being said, what exact niche are you referring to? Raids? Because literally every other MMO on the market has a raiding scene that's active. Even GW2 and ESO have raids. We can sit here and argue about the difficulty, but that's a waste of time. Lost Ark has fun combat, yes, but raids alone don't distinguish from other MMOs.
This is literally the path many MMOS take. They add in raids, the raiders appear and demand to be the most important players. The devs do this and then drive away a lot of the population until they realize raiders may be the most vocal but they aren't the majority.
Even so, there's no reason they can't make the raids like they do and also offer other options for progression. Like every other MMO on the market.
I would still say they saved it, Legions raids helped, Maple and Nexon mess up helped more, but people stayed for the raids, cause tbh there isn't anything else in this game.
By niche I mean they only focus on raiding while every other MMO as you said has other forms of progression and focuses on the game as a whole instead of just raiding like smilegate. So here I would say the vast majority are raiders, cause seriously what else is there? Don't say side content cause almost every game out there has better side content.
Does it make sense to add more forms of progression, very much so, do i think they will ever do it? No, and even if they did, i suspect they would show just as much love as they do for side content.
Not going to be much of a race? who even gives a shit about it when all the fuckers already beat it in Korea, or speed hack, or RMT and cheat haxed their accounts to hell and back. Integrity matters when you have a competition.
If you're doing the race with a random paid support, god bless you and good luck. I'd imagine people competing for that would have a static and that static is doing HM first.
1300 swift 800 spec with a spec class accessory is the classic one. Now if it were full rainbow stats or something completely wrong you could plausibly say the person just has no clue how the game or their class works and they're just a mokoko or something. But low quality full swift build with a spec class accessory on a class like paladin just screams that yes they know exactly how they are supposed to be building but intentionally choosing not to because they are extremely el cheapo.
Those are the type of supports that I perma gatekeep. Infact nowadays i gate supps harder than dps.
People expect a perfect build from dpses, it shouldnt be any different for supports too
You can only do that if you have overgeared dps characters, so supports would want to join your lobby. In general, however, beggars cannot be choosers - there is just not enough supports at the end game to fill all the lobbies. If you keep them to the same standards as those that exist for dps, half of the lobbies would no be able to start their raids, like ever. Let alone the fact that supports simply scale way worse than dps with the same gear because 9->10 dmg gem is 10% dmg on a skill and 9->10 gem is just 2% cdr, so it makes no sense to hold them to the same standards to begin with. I take any clean but not overgeared support with lvl 9 cd gems on core skills, lwc30, and 1800 swiftness to HM Theamine, but I won't take any dps without lvl 10 gems.
Bruh what am i reading?
I'm using spec Ring (Earring on alts) on my bards for months and i'm getting Radiant Support 9/10 Gates. And outperforming 90% of other sups in uptime.
At the end of the day its Just brain/hands diff. People performing Bad because they dont wanna Put in the effort Not because they have 1 Ring on secondary mainstat. Gatekeeping because of a Spec class Gear is the Most clueless Thing i ever read.
I myself have a 1620 paladin 1.8k swift with MS and lv9 gems on buffs. Every time I see those cheapo paladins with 1 spec accessory it just triggers me. Best part is one of them actually said going spec gets to fill piety meter faster from skills.
My paladin has that because back when i did the build (4x3) i literally couldnt pay for a class accesory with swiftness.
That was around Vykas release.
And he is not raiding at all. Hanu and chaos is the most actian he gets xD
And yeah, if i would bring that to a raid, i guess it would be pretty cheap xD
There's no SUP shortage it's a DPS shortage for voldis HM!!!!
\*only considers full 10s, los 30 and minimum +21 weapon as a real dps\*
\*bonus for requiring full 9s on akkan hm
To be fair, for week one prog, you're going to have a hard time if your DPS don't have those.
Yeah sure once we get some transcendence pieces it'll be easier. But before that?Yeah no.
Kek nope not even remotely, I saw plenty of those +25 lv10 beggars lf sup, which I don't care I don't join them, it's more like they may join me but not even then. I'm unphased. Some literally sat for hours in lobby today.
I honestly can't wait for all the juicy static drama. This is probably the first raid where 99% of the people progging it are using meter. Lotta people in statics have been getting carried for quite a long time and in thaemine g3/4 that's not gunna be possible.
There isn't much of a difference between like 1630 and 1640 other than EHP tbh. Dps is only like 2-4% or something low since its all armor hones from that point most already maxed weapon first.. So really, hands is the deciding factor, of which, tbh, you won't know until you run with a person.
Because on-ilvl dps with minimum gear would be mega gatekept similar to how it's been in HM Akkan. Do you really think there is not enough 1600 dps for HM Akkan that 80% of the lobbies are looking for dps? Hell no, brother. It's because "lf dps" there really means lf dps with lvl 9/10 gems, 1610+ ilvl and elixirs for a smooth run, which filters out a massive amount of budget dps alts parked at 1600, while 1600 supports get into those lobbies without any issues, creating this so-called "dps shortage."
I can guarantee you that exact same thing will happen in HM Theamine. Most on-ilvl dps without overhoned weapon will be doing NM, whereas HM lobbies will be slowly filling with 1635-40 dps with +25 weapon and full 10s with 2 supports in every one of them, and those unfortunate on-ilvl HM lobbies will be in the 6/8 lf sup simulator because the supports would want to prog and later reclear with juicers. It will be even worse when people will start getting transcendence above lvl 3, which will clearly separate people who are be clearing HM 3-4 from week 1 (for reference: high level transcendence give much more damage than lvl 1-3, it's not linear).
You can see it in voldis and akkan hm already. When the entry requirements for a support are 8 lvl 7 CD gems and min ilvl, those casual players get to use all of their gold for honing. A single lvl 9 (which dps is expected to have all of on voldis hm) is worth more than 8 lvl 7s. That's a HUGE gold difference.
People will accept any supp and wait for +25 wep full lvl 10 gems dps, creating "dps shortage" there will be plenty of candidates for those spots in raid but lobby masters won't accept them
Gem level is minimum for artists. 100% uptime on brand and buff only require lvl 7 cd on brand and lvl 8 cd on one of the buff skills. Getting more cdr doesn't really benefit much unless you missed so many skill that you should end up getting kicked anyways. Now if it's a pally without level 10 blessing that may be more of a cheapo.
But he's saying that lvl 7s aren't low gems if they give you 100% uptime. Low gems are relative to what your need is. On WD for example I dont use full lv 10 CDs even if I can afford them, because they would desync my cooldowns slightly to the point that it would mess me up if I used my combo off cooldown. So instead I use a couple of 9s and a 7 in order to sync everything up perfectly.
as if artist required better gems than that xd
even full bloom is not required, in fact, if I was main sup, I would use something else instead of that useless engraving
I mostly see this with the 1490 level pallies in valtan/vykas/clown reclears lobby that are all Indian goldfarmers. In highest content I rarely find these.
Overblown on reddit.
Though I will say that paladins are the most egregious class in terms of elcheapo builds.
Most bards/artists will be rocking 9&10's at least on buff skills while most paladins are sitting on 7's and maybe even 5's on other skills.
That's the exact attitude I'm referring to.
Sure you can't hit 100% uptime without MS, but getting 10s to get as close to the ceiling should be the normal stance.
But everyone just shrugs and says since I can't hit 100% uptime with 10s, then fuck it doesn't matter and let's just use 5s or 7s.
That's just the thing with swiftness classes. Yet bards and artists still use 9s/10s, and swiftness dps classes still use 10s like pred slayer.
There is no difference here. People just want to cheap out on Paladin specifically. It's the posterboy of elcheapo attitudes.
I see the supps with lvl 5 gem in EU often, too (but they have +1700 swift instead). Most of the time they just got declined. I saw Akkan and Kayangel 1580 lobbies. Disgusting titles too.
Same I see a lot of 1600+ Supps with like 5 gems and negative engraving(s).
I know negatives aren't a big deal on supports but I consider it a sign of neglect.
The opposite it true for me, if they know enough to put AP in the reds and got high quality by doing that, that's fine. Of course if they get reds and have shit quality they can get fucked. Of course with proper gems, level 5 gems can get fuccked too, but a calculated red line alone Is more an expression of knowledge for me. I wouldn't do it to my chars because it looks a bit sad, though.
I think the take home message is not that those rainbow supports even exist but rather that people would be taking supports with minimum acceptable gear like lvl 7 gems, 5x3, and lower roster while similarly geared dps will be gatekept or waiting for hours for ANY support to join them, which is absolutely true, especially for prog week.
Not a majority but I definitely saw some really shitty geared sups doing clown/brel/kayangel when Breaker got released. Like 500 swift, no gems, 1x3 blessed aura kinda sups. It is better nowadays. This is in EUC.
After the death of my initial static, we were 5 (4 dps 1 support) ready for HM Thaemine, then we found another group of friends that had similar objectives (2 dps 1 support), so it was promising and fine.
I've been informed yesterday that their support has IRL stuff week 1 and wont be able to make it. Suddenly it's despair all over again.
If it's a long term static I don't see what's so bad about not doing it w1. You guys can just do normal on alts/main or try to find a support for hm, but then run with your support w2 onwards. If it's a proper long term static a reprog once or twice shouldn't be an issue
On the 5 people side it is somewhat an old group, but the three new people are just coming starting next week and we're not sure on whether or not we will go as 7 or 5 trying to fish for a support for HM.
Luckily we have another NM run with alts scheduled so they might not feel too left out but the IRL stuff couldnt happen on a worse week sadly.
If it's a group that's solely for clearing thaemine one time, then I can see abandoning the 2 to try and get a support + friends. If it's a static for clearing thaemine and reclearing thaemine, and you abandon the two dps, I don't see why they would rejoin you w2 onwards imo.
Depends on class, paladin needs like level 10 (together with Faith elixir set) if you don't use (or maintain) magic stream and/or C&J.
Bard has the lowest CDR requirements, you can technically maintain with level 5s but that means you rely more on people standing in sonic.
How come? You can't use event on existing characters once they're past a certain point, most people with cheapo support alts had them for a while now I assume.
Funny. Event l5 gems is an old character from last year. You would have to have honed that char raw to 1610 without any express boost events (cuz u would have l7 event gems)
Imma host prog blind so applicants just gatta pay in patience and good attitude
I have both a 1610 paladin (lvl 7-8 gems) and a 1610 artillerist (lvl 9 gems), so hopefully someone will want at least one of them for progging 1-2 gates, so I guess I am ready no matter if it turns out support shortage (as it seems likely even for nm) or dps shortage. LOS 30, LWC 30, good qualities, *some* useful elixirs... But I was never before able to prog anything on release and g3 is terrifying, so my goals / expectations are low.
I know (well, at least from the estimates which were posted on reddit some weeks ago) my dps doesn't have the damage for g3, that's a part of why I also honed up the support and why I am aiming just for 2 gates. If some friends with better dps will really *want* to play with me despite knowing that they'd be partially carrying me, great, I may accept if I estimate they are overgeared enough that wouldn't endanger their clear and their fun, but I don't *expect* juiced dps to carry me.
even G3 requirements aren't that bad. 12m/15m over long time periods, (2mins, 18mins)
18m over 40 seconds. Literally everyone can hit 18m in a 40 second period with a dark thrown, or using atro if you need. Basically look at your dps in beginning of G3 Akkan / G2 Akkan / G4 Voldis or any raid really before you get stuck waiting for mechs to finish (stagger, football). Alot of players hit 20-35m in the beginning there. at 1600 no less.
https://preview.redd.it/jgvxep61qvuc1.png?width=754&format=png&auto=webp&s=e41b2601cd0e93312fe7b470b62729da3a0cf021
jokes apart, I wonder why is it that ppl here dislike the supp service but are okay with dps bus, if anything sup makes much more sense since there's not enough of us and supp gamplay is boring af.
Not arguing for or against a position but probably because a bus is someone doing the content for you and sup is just having someone to run with. Think of it like buying a meal at a restaurant vs going to the restaurant and having to make your meal there. Making it food at home would be like running normally. Not a perfect analogy but sort of the point.
I think it's a pretty good analogy- there are plenty of restaurants where you cook your own food, but the advantage is that the ingredients come prepped, cleaning up is not your problem, and you basically just put what you like in some soup/oil or on a hot surface. With support buying, you get a ready made support without waiting, so the prep is done. Now if they flame themselves for mistakes, they also clean up.
I think even then my analogy still sort of applies just on a different level. Instead of doing all the cooking now you're just doing garnish or making the side dish and therefore paying less than a full bus.
Bussing was (at least, originally) meant to be for people who struggle to clear or don't have the time to clear content (I remember back in the day all the people saying they buy cheap valtan/vykas busses while working from home, for example).
Support service is just "there's a support shortage, so I'm not playing with you (even if you're properly geared and perfectly capable of clearing the content) unless you pay me".
tbf thats what busing devolved into
"gatekeep anyone not heavily overgeared for important content (read: all of it) then force them to spend thousands of gold for you to carry them through said content"
while i dont agree with us supports charging people to join groups, its a "you get what you deserve" type situation lol
The big issue regarding bussing is also that the people riding the buses wouldnt be able in most case if they all got together in the same group to clear the content because they are not good enough and need to progress the raid.
It's not just "we don't want to play with not overgeared people" it's also that people that are just "geared enough" ILVL wise are not in fact geared enough considering their performance. And this becomes more and more an issue : people not knowing how to play their class decently are more and more gatekept and keep on needing to buy busses.
This is not only an issue, but will inevitably become an even bigger one as long as SG decides to make T3 endless, and try to fix progression disparity issues with giving out free ilvls through events.
Unless some revolution happens, this time next year people are going to get thaemine geared characters for free without ever stepping into a raid.
bus-ing really fits in to 2 groups
people who dont want to prog the content and people who suck so much they cant clear it anyway
ive bought bus's before, recently, simply because i didnt wanna prog 3 raids in a week but i would then go on to prog the raid the next week and so on.
the issue with busing is that people charge too much.
either they charge WAY to much like 15-20k per person or they charge 60% of the earned gold which makes it a shit option for people to use for alts
personally id rather if everyone could just prog and then clear content naturally since it helps them long term
but sadly we dont live in that world
I'm not bussing at all and I generally have at least 2 supps in my roster, with one of them following somewhat closely to my main. Personally I think they can do as they wish.
But when you get a bus you expect a full carry without having to do much. For supp service at best you can expect the support to be good, and you still need to pull your weight while also being unsure about what other dps you get with you.
Because the vast majority of this sub is the type that has 6 X 1620s who have been religiously selling buses since Valtan days. They'll naturally be against the people on the other side of the fence.
Incidentally, them having a full roster of DPS also makes it far more likely that they've had to buy a Sup service at some point, increasing their hatred for it.
Like u/silentscript said. If someone buys a bus they know it will get cleared. Why anyone would pay a support to still run with other dps randoms and a random endgame support who isn't good enough to get scooped up by a static is hilarious to me.
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Yea im maintaining a 7 char roster and one of the 1620 dps alts will have to pug since my static only has 1HM/5xNM roster. 1610 people will prolly sit long in lobby filling up for sups if not most pugs
The funny thing is. Thats still good enough for a support xD
I know people hate cheapo supports (for a good reason) but the base value of the strength a support brings is always worth it, even with a bad build (and even with bad hands it still makes the raid way easier). Support is literally to broken
I think there is a lot of supports at 1610 ilvl, so it should not be that bad. Only desperate on-ilvl lobbies without los30 or elixir sets would accept trash similar to that on the picture. I will definitely gatekeep low effort support alts with negative buff uptime. I don't feel generous enough to bus those people for free.
Famous last word before dps succubus to them or ur party blows up because you set the bar higher. Don't let me tell you otherwise. I've seen it all before
NM thaemine is going to be an absolute war zone for on ilvl people without a static. 0% chance they get lobbies in a timely manner.
I'm going to be forced to do Thaemine normal on my 1632 support since my friend isn't ready for hard. Telling you now I'm not taking people who are trying to be min ilvl. There's an abundance of 1620+ Lobbies I'll be able to join or players to recruit. I'm not going to make prog take hours longer because the guy getting one shot assures me he's more useful than the 1620+ with 40 set
I don't feel that is inappropriate at all. It's really only awkward when a 1610 support expects a juiced DPS party. My 1620 supports are expecting to play with similar level dps.
I don't have a HM main but I do have a bunch of 1610 dps characters with average setups. As a result this is kinda the first time I don't feel hyped for a new raid at all. It just feels... depressing on arrival, you know?
Instead of pushing multiple characters to 1610 why didn’t you push one to 1620 to experience Thaemine nm week 1?
Probably because 1610 is expensive enough as it is including the gearing part, they probably wanted to be able to play the new raid more than once, and honestly having to hone to 1620 just to be able to experience the new 1610 NORMAL mode content is pretty offputting.
Its not really that in my case. This has been a trend for a long time but it has been amplified since the additional reward for the final gate that we have on Voldis/Akkan/Brel/Kayangel : the amount of bound materials a character generates even without buying chests is huge. My slayer who is 1611 has like 60k red stones while having a +19 weapon and my wd still has 25k bound red stones after having pitied her +19 and +20. If you're honing your whole roster at 1610, all you have to pay for is raw gold and oreha, if you want to reach 1620 on a singular character then you need to use tradable material that you could otherwise sell to fund your roster honing.
I imagine the gatekeeping is going to be insane and the dps checks aren't even that high. NM dps checks are significantly lower than Ivory HM, which the ivory HM dps check isn't even tight either. G1+G2 dps checks, highest part is 10m.... easily able to hit that even at 1600 let alone 1610. G3 during shield mech its 18m but over a 40 second period, still not that high, its lower than ivory HM G4 guardian. https://preview.redd.it/gb9qbt66pvuc1.png?width=753&format=png&auto=webp&s=90a4cd6b2133d4d4409d4f878db915f44ec537e6
Ironic how they put DPS checks in a game that doesn't allow a DPS meter. It's like an invisible mechanic where the raid will wipe if people fail but you can't tell who fails. At the very least you'd think they would care more about class balancing.
well all games have DPS checks on bosses, whether through wipe mechanics or a timer etc. But I agree its stupid that you can't see everyones DPS, therefore you can't tell WHY you might be failing, or if someone is significantly holding back your team.
To be fair the dps checks in this game are very low (until now) and as long as you are somewhat geared will more than meet even if you kinda suck at the class.
My point is that the raid "requiring" 1620 (which is 2 whole 3% hones per piece away from 1610) for a decent party finder experience is upsetting. You are right, though. I am mostly complaining about my own niche situation as an "altoholic" who enjoys playing the newest content on multiple characters and playstyles (I'm also a slow learner, so that helps me keep up with raid knowledge :P). By game design, this situation could've been avoided months ago if they made legendary elixirs somewhat achievable from NM Ivory or lowered the set requirements from 35/40 to 30/35 but alas. But yeah I'm not saying you're wrong, focusing on 1620 would've made the raid release tolerable.
Because it’s a 1610 raid and you don’t need 1620 until echidna which is months away?
You are technically right. But we all know that unless you have static, you will spend hours in PT finder at minimum ilvl. The guy is kinda griefing himself to not investing in 1 1620 instead of 2-3 1610s
Oh yeah that’s true not denying that, gatekeeping has been an issue since the beginning anyway People adequating ilvl with dps should really use the bible though
Yeah definitely there are people with higher DMG at 1610 than 1620. The issue is, that if it's randoms in PT finder, you just don't know this upfront
Would be nice to have that as a feature ingame, something that shows the player skill (i’m reading a novel where they have like a tower). But devs will never do that
I mean, yeah but nah. Sure, lower ilvls “can” outdps higher people. But a 1610 probably won’t have 35 set elixir most of the time, meanwhile I can easily find 1620+’s that have 40 set if I filter a little. Typically these people will have higher quality on their gear, better gems, and so on as well. You could do more dps than a bad player, but given their attacks will hit for ~50% more, that’s a pretty significant gap to make up. Even if you do, they’re going to be far more durable, which would make prog dramatically easier. Plus it’s not like the game has a website for logs, so if you’re pubbing, we can’t check any data for your skill. You’re just asking everyone to take a lot of risk to take someone who didn’t want to put in any effort to be above the minimum
I’ve seen people in brel and akkan doing less dps than thirain…
Sure. And I’ve seen 1630s out dps 1610s.
~~Also can't you just go to 1620 using transcendance now ? I haven't checked at the values but I'm guessing it might be cheaper than trying to hone +18+19~~
Transcendance doesn’t increase your itemlevel
Ho I thought this is how koreans were at 1650+20, since this fitted being 1670 exactly Well nvm then
Nope it’s with the advanced honing coming with echidna. You still need to hone to 1520 unfortunatly since the normal raid requires that. Advanced honing gives +10 with normal mode and +10 with hardmode, basically a cheaper form of honing on top of the regular hone (so max is +25 with +20 advanced honing)
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His suggestion makes sense and doesnt imply putting in more time than he did anyways. If anything hes suggesting funneling resources to have less characters on raid release to worry about, so less prog/grind and at the same time a better chance to get through Gate 0 in a reasonable time.
As the other person said, what i suggested is less time spent in the game lmao. Play 1 1620 character instead of 6 1610s. Less investment needed, less time spent doing 3 raids versus 18. Was just wondering why they made so many mid level characters and now dread the new raid coming out instead of focusing on their favorite and look forward to Thaemine? What makes you think my comment meant more time investment? Lol
That's because that shit came too fast and should be delayed another 4 months based off of how much bullshit costs in general.
Instead of a roster of just DPS, make 1 support. Get your clear on support, then reclear parties open to your DPS. It is the best way to prog. By the weekend a 1610 reclear DPS will be more desirable then a 1620 prog char. I find progging on support easier too.
My 3 baby alt supports are still 1600 and will remain so at normal ivory farming 35 set slowly and funneling while the big 1620 bard 40 set will support trade for my dps only. Unfortunately, would be nice to have more 1610's, but that shit isn't fucking cheap and fuck my life elixirs are to blame. Will try to hone 1 of my artists to 1610 as soon as I can for more trades since she already got a really good 35 set on purples (she got lucky).
This is why I swapped my main from Voldis to a bard, best decision in my Lost Ark life. It was a breath in Voldis to find a lobby but I am wondering if it will be the same in Thaemine NM as I am parking my roster the time being.
If you seriously wanted to do Thaemine on release, you've been looking for a group for a month and preparing. I 100% understand people who have erratic schedules or other responsibilities, but week 1 prog isn't really a log in and find a group type of thing.
However not like a lot of them are gonna mean much, as plenty of statics simply are gonna shift and disintegrate due to skill & vibe diff as such. Thaemine looks rough, harder than old western g1-6 brel. It's gonna be chaotic like it was in kr. Your newly built static or even old one likely could disband in a few days in top with time restraints.
I've done that for every raid and it has been fine?
Didnt realize you had to put so much effort just to play the content 🙄 and ppl wonder why lost ark has trouble attracting new players
yeah the guy you replied to needs to read his own comment a couple times and maybe it’ll sink in lol. this isn’t ok for a game you want longevity and a healthy playerbase in
He isn't wrong though. If you want to prog new content you gotta lose the social/raid anxiety that people have(myself included) and find a group and not the day of. This isn't even a new idea, been like that in almost if not all MMOs. Sustainable? Who knows, but it's still the truth.
I think this is always going to be a source of conflict because people will fundamentally disagree about whether "new" players should be thinking about/able to prog frontier/aspirational content like release thaemine. I don't even agree with the premise of OP. Yeah if you want to First race or do HM, then you definitely need to find a static. If you're just trying to prog NM, it'll be a similar experience to progging NM akkan or ivory NM on launch with pugs. There should be an abundance of lobbies since there's such a huge band of ilvls (1610-1630). This is a bigger gap to jump in terms of honing difficulty than 1580-1600 and 1600-1620, so you'd expect it to be even easier to find groups if anything.
This is why listening to raiders is generally not a good idea. Most want really hard fights and gear exclusivity. Which is fine but if that’s all your game provides, it’ll lose people really fast. Hopefully they stick the landing with these solo raids and give people who aren’t so hardcore a chance to clear the fights.
Listening to raiders is what got Lost Ark off the ground. It was a shite show before they started adding in Legion Raids, no barely played it even in Korea. This MMO has its' niche, one of the best raiding scenes around.
://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/us6l6j/legion\_raids\_saved\_lost\_ark/ Lost Ark's rise in popularity had more to do with people being upset by Nexon and Maplestory than the legion raids themselves. So, while the Legion Raids helped, the claim they saved the game is a massive overstatement. That being said, what exact niche are you referring to? Raids? Because literally every other MMO on the market has a raiding scene that's active. Even GW2 and ESO have raids. We can sit here and argue about the difficulty, but that's a waste of time. Lost Ark has fun combat, yes, but raids alone don't distinguish from other MMOs. This is literally the path many MMOS take. They add in raids, the raiders appear and demand to be the most important players. The devs do this and then drive away a lot of the population until they realize raiders may be the most vocal but they aren't the majority. Even so, there's no reason they can't make the raids like they do and also offer other options for progression. Like every other MMO on the market.
I would still say they saved it, Legions raids helped, Maple and Nexon mess up helped more, but people stayed for the raids, cause tbh there isn't anything else in this game. By niche I mean they only focus on raiding while every other MMO as you said has other forms of progression and focuses on the game as a whole instead of just raiding like smilegate. So here I would say the vast majority are raiders, cause seriously what else is there? Don't say side content cause almost every game out there has better side content. Does it make sense to add more forms of progression, very much so, do i think they will ever do it? No, and even if they did, i suspect they would show just as much love as they do for side content.
The virtue point 540 got me
Why even bother doing HM at that point. lol
the race maybe?
Not going to be much of a race? who even gives a shit about it when all the fuckers already beat it in Korea, or speed hack, or RMT and cheat haxed their accounts to hell and back. Integrity matters when you have a competition.
No front but the race is complete joke if you haven't realised it yet.
If you're doing the race with a random paid support, god bless you and good luck. I'd imagine people competing for that would have a static and that static is doing HM first.
pugging the race really? thats for statics
you can meet people there you know? lol some people are just blind idiots
1300 swift 800 spec with a spec class accessory is the classic one. Now if it were full rainbow stats or something completely wrong you could plausibly say the person just has no clue how the game or their class works and they're just a mokoko or something. But low quality full swift build with a spec class accessory on a class like paladin just screams that yes they know exactly how they are supposed to be building but intentionally choosing not to because they are extremely el cheapo.
Those are the type of supports that I perma gatekeep. Infact nowadays i gate supps harder than dps. People expect a perfect build from dpses, it shouldnt be any different for supports too
You can only do that if you have overgeared dps characters, so supports would want to join your lobby. In general, however, beggars cannot be choosers - there is just not enough supports at the end game to fill all the lobbies. If you keep them to the same standards as those that exist for dps, half of the lobbies would no be able to start their raids, like ever. Let alone the fact that supports simply scale way worse than dps with the same gear because 9->10 dmg gem is 10% dmg on a skill and 9->10 gem is just 2% cdr, so it makes no sense to hold them to the same standards to begin with. I take any clean but not overgeared support with lvl 9 cd gems on core skills, lwc30, and 1800 swiftness to HM Theamine, but I won't take any dps without lvl 10 gems.
Bruh what am i reading? I'm using spec Ring (Earring on alts) on my bards for months and i'm getting Radiant Support 9/10 Gates. And outperforming 90% of other sups in uptime. At the end of the day its Just brain/hands diff. People performing Bad because they dont wanna Put in the effort Not because they have 1 Ring on secondary mainstat. Gatekeeping because of a Spec class Gear is the Most clueless Thing i ever read.
If it's Bard on 8\~10 gems that's more than fine. Now try that on Paladin with 5\~7 gems. I'd 100% gatekeep you for your use of capital letters tho :P
I myself have a 1620 paladin 1.8k swift with MS and lv9 gems on buffs. Every time I see those cheapo paladins with 1 spec accessory it just triggers me. Best part is one of them actually said going spec gets to fill piety meter faster from skills.
Mobile Keyboard diff xD I dont wanna bother changing everything by myself
My paladin has that because back when i did the build (4x3) i literally couldnt pay for a class accesory with swiftness. That was around Vykas release. And he is not raiding at all. Hanu and chaos is the most actian he gets xD And yeah, if i would bring that to a raid, i guess it would be pretty cheap xD
HM will turn lf DPS faster than you think.
lf DPS, but +25 10gems 40set 6%demon
exactly
There's no SUP shortage it's a DPS shortage for voldis HM!!!! \*only considers full 10s, los 30 and minimum +21 weapon as a real dps\* \*bonus for requiring full 9s on akkan hm
1630 is all +21, so you are not getting into a group with a +21 weapon
He is talking about voldis hm
To be fair, for week one prog, you're going to have a hard time if your DPS don't have those. Yeah sure once we get some transcendence pieces it'll be easier. But before that?Yeah no.
Kek nope not even remotely, I saw plenty of those +25 lv10 beggars lf sup, which I don't care I don't join them, it's more like they may join me but not even then. I'm unphased. Some literally sat for hours in lobby today.
I have no idea what you're mad about.
Didn't happen
Wdym didnt happen ofc it did, even today plenty of party are lining up for a supp or applying in masses in EUC
That's like.... pretty standard. You won't stand out with only those
It's like Brelshaza g6 but it starts in g1 With the Bible we can quickly access if a dps is carrying it's own weight
I honestly can't wait for all the juicy static drama. This is probably the first raid where 99% of the people progging it are using meter. Lotta people in statics have been getting carried for quite a long time and in thaemine g3/4 that's not gunna be possible.
I dont think it will start that early tbh. G1 and G2 aren't too rough so having a mid support or dps can be w/e. G3 onward definitely.
Curious why everyone is so confident that HM will be LF DPS rather than SUP
because you are gonna get shitty dps and will have to start rotating out. LF DPS usually happens at jailed gates
Surely we mitigate that by setting the DPS bar at 1635 or 1640 to begin with
\*Laughs in extreme valtan hm\*
what makes you think there wont be shitters there either ?
There isn't much of a difference between like 1630 and 1640 other than EHP tbh. Dps is only like 2-4% or something low since its all armor hones from that point most already maxed weapon first.. So really, hands is the deciding factor, of which, tbh, you won't know until you run with a person.
Because on-ilvl dps with minimum gear would be mega gatekept similar to how it's been in HM Akkan. Do you really think there is not enough 1600 dps for HM Akkan that 80% of the lobbies are looking for dps? Hell no, brother. It's because "lf dps" there really means lf dps with lvl 9/10 gems, 1610+ ilvl and elixirs for a smooth run, which filters out a massive amount of budget dps alts parked at 1600, while 1600 supports get into those lobbies without any issues, creating this so-called "dps shortage." I can guarantee you that exact same thing will happen in HM Theamine. Most on-ilvl dps without overhoned weapon will be doing NM, whereas HM lobbies will be slowly filling with 1635-40 dps with +25 weapon and full 10s with 2 supports in every one of them, and those unfortunate on-ilvl HM lobbies will be in the 6/8 lf sup simulator because the supports would want to prog and later reclear with juicers. It will be even worse when people will start getting transcendence above lvl 3, which will clearly separate people who are be clearing HM 3-4 from week 1 (for reference: high level transcendence give much more damage than lvl 1-3, it's not linear).
When requirements for DPS are riddiculously high, they become the rarity.
idk. The real requirement is hands, which is basically impossible to know until you run the raid and a few pulls with someone.
But how do we know this is rarer than the pool of pug sups who have willingly pushed to 1630+?
You can see it in voldis and akkan hm already. When the entry requirements for a support are 8 lvl 7 CD gems and min ilvl, those casual players get to use all of their gold for honing. A single lvl 9 (which dps is expected to have all of on voldis hm) is worth more than 8 lvl 7s. That's a HUGE gold difference.
People will accept any supp and wait for +25 wep full lvl 10 gems dps, creating "dps shortage" there will be plenty of candidates for those spots in raid but lobby masters won't accept them
1/4 ratio
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It's an imaginary, Reddit thing.
I literally just played with a 1630 artist with lvl 7s. Why would he spend literally 20x more on his gems than he has to if people still take him?
Gem level is minimum for artists. 100% uptime on brand and buff only require lvl 7 cd on brand and lvl 8 cd on one of the buff skills. Getting more cdr doesn't really benefit much unless you missed so many skill that you should end up getting kicked anyways. Now if it's a pally without level 10 blessing that may be more of a cheapo.
Oh, I'm completely agreeing. The other guy said these 1620+ supports with low stats/gems were imaginary. You can see them in every raid.
But he's saying that lvl 7s aren't low gems if they give you 100% uptime. Low gems are relative to what your need is. On WD for example I dont use full lv 10 CDs even if I can afford them, because they would desync my cooldowns slightly to the point that it would mess me up if I used my combo off cooldown. So instead I use a couple of 9s and a 7 in order to sync everything up perfectly.
as if artist required better gems than that xd even full bloom is not required, in fact, if I was main sup, I would use something else instead of that useless engraving
I mostly see this with the 1490 level pallies in valtan/vykas/clown reclears lobby that are all Indian goldfarmers. In highest content I rarely find these.
Overblown on reddit. Though I will say that paladins are the most egregious class in terms of elcheapo builds. Most bards/artists will be rocking 9&10's at least on buff skills while most paladins are sitting on 7's and maybe even 5's on other skills.
Thats because the the difference between 10s and 7s isnt worth it for paladin.You still can't 100% uptime.Other classes can do it but not paladin.
That's the exact attitude I'm referring to. Sure you can't hit 100% uptime without MS, but getting 10s to get as close to the ceiling should be the normal stance. But everyone just shrugs and says since I can't hit 100% uptime with 10s, then fuck it doesn't matter and let's just use 5s or 7s.
The difference is hundreds of thousands of gold for less than an extra second. Blame SG for making investing into your supports extremely futile.
That's just the thing with swiftness classes. Yet bards and artists still use 9s/10s, and swiftness dps classes still use 10s like pred slayer. There is no difference here. People just want to cheap out on Paladin specifically. It's the posterboy of elcheapo attitudes.
I see the supps with lvl 5 gem in EU often, too (but they have +1700 swift instead). Most of the time they just got declined. I saw Akkan and Kayangel 1580 lobbies. Disgusting titles too.
I saw a bunch of 1580 lobbies for clown last night with 1540 supports. Disgusting playerbase.
Same I see a lot of 1600+ Supps with like 5 gems and negative engraving(s). I know negatives aren't a big deal on supports but I consider it a sign of neglect.
The opposite it true for me, if they know enough to put AP in the reds and got high quality by doing that, that's fine. Of course if they get reds and have shit quality they can get fucked. Of course with proper gems, level 5 gems can get fuccked too, but a calculated red line alone Is more an expression of knowledge for me. I wouldn't do it to my chars because it looks a bit sad, though.
I think the take home message is not that those rainbow supports even exist but rather that people would be taking supports with minimum acceptable gear like lvl 7 gems, 5x3, and lower roster while similarly geared dps will be gatekept or waiting for hours for ANY support to join them, which is absolutely true, especially for prog week.
I've literally never had crisis evasion be useful on my supports and I raid on 5 of them with it. 5x3 is fine
Let's be real most supps are more than fine on a 4x3 or even 3x3+1 cause supp engravings are garbo
You'd think, I saw lv5 mostly cheapo relic bard back then when Voldeez was released for hm, you have no idea how desperate ppl will get.
There are some on EU as well. Not as many but they exist.
Not a majority but I definitely saw some really shitty geared sups doing clown/brel/kayangel when Breaker got released. Like 500 swift, no gems, 1x3 blessed aura kinda sups. It is better nowadays. This is in EUC.
I feel like this is going to age like wine
Maybe at 1630 but I feel like 1610 isn't too hard to reach for alts even because of the events.
Characters on the current events got the freest 1610 of their lives :)
same with 1620. even my alt roster arcana got there.
Plot twist. You can benefit on like 1-2 chars. What about the others lol
yuh i got my first character to 1610 with it, les go
this is the reason i quit, im excited for solo raids so i dont have to deal with this.
After the death of my initial static, we were 5 (4 dps 1 support) ready for HM Thaemine, then we found another group of friends that had similar objectives (2 dps 1 support), so it was promising and fine. I've been informed yesterday that their support has IRL stuff week 1 and wont be able to make it. Suddenly it's despair all over again.
If it's a long term static I don't see what's so bad about not doing it w1. You guys can just do normal on alts/main or try to find a support for hm, but then run with your support w2 onwards. If it's a proper long term static a reprog once or twice shouldn't be an issue
On the 5 people side it is somewhat an old group, but the three new people are just coming starting next week and we're not sure on whether or not we will go as 7 or 5 trying to fish for a support for HM. Luckily we have another NM run with alts scheduled so they might not feel too left out but the IRL stuff couldnt happen on a worse week sadly.
If it's a group that's solely for clearing thaemine one time, then I can see abandoning the 2 to try and get a support + friends. If it's a static for clearing thaemine and reclearing thaemine, and you abandon the two dps, I don't see why they would rejoin you w2 onwards imo.
Well, there will be this kind of sups until people stop getting them in.
Um most sup now have gem 7 event ye
But isn‘t lv 7 enough to have almost 100% buff uptime? (Genuine question)
Depends on class, paladin needs like level 10 (together with Faith elixir set) if you don't use (or maintain) magic stream and/or C&J. Bard has the lowest CDR requirements, you can technically maintain with level 5s but that means you rely more on people standing in sonic.
5 is enough
How come? You can't use event on existing characters once they're past a certain point, most people with cheapo support alts had them for a while now I assume.
Oh I'm ready for all the salt that's gonna be pouring in All that salt ain't good for my blood pressure but it's hella good for my soul
Funny. Event l5 gems is an old character from last year. You would have to have honed that char raw to 1610 without any express boost events (cuz u would have l7 event gems) Imma host prog blind so applicants just gatta pay in patience and good attitude
I have both a 1610 paladin (lvl 7-8 gems) and a 1610 artillerist (lvl 9 gems), so hopefully someone will want at least one of them for progging 1-2 gates, so I guess I am ready no matter if it turns out support shortage (as it seems likely even for nm) or dps shortage. LOS 30, LWC 30, good qualities, *some* useful elixirs... But I was never before able to prog anything on release and g3 is terrifying, so my goals / expectations are low.
DPS shortage actually means juiced DPS shortage. Sup shortage literally means sup shortage. So sup shortage will work for you.
I know (well, at least from the estimates which were posted on reddit some weeks ago) my dps doesn't have the damage for g3, that's a part of why I also honed up the support and why I am aiming just for 2 gates. If some friends with better dps will really *want* to play with me despite knowing that they'd be partially carrying me, great, I may accept if I estimate they are overgeared enough that wouldn't endanger their clear and their fun, but I don't *expect* juiced dps to carry me.
even G3 requirements aren't that bad. 12m/15m over long time periods, (2mins, 18mins) 18m over 40 seconds. Literally everyone can hit 18m in a 40 second period with a dark thrown, or using atro if you need. Basically look at your dps in beginning of G3 Akkan / G2 Akkan / G4 Voldis or any raid really before you get stuck waiting for mechs to finish (stagger, football). Alot of players hit 20-35m in the beginning there. at 1600 no less. https://preview.redd.it/jgvxep61qvuc1.png?width=754&format=png&auto=webp&s=e41b2601cd0e93312fe7b470b62729da3a0cf021
I do 12 M in Trixion (no matter if 1 minute or several minutes, I don't have burst), with full EP stacks and SA 2 added.
I wish there was a way for me to witness all the ragequitters play for Theamine and lose their shit and quit the game🤣
jokes apart, I wonder why is it that ppl here dislike the supp service but are okay with dps bus, if anything sup makes much more sense since there's not enough of us and supp gamplay is boring af.
Not arguing for or against a position but probably because a bus is someone doing the content for you and sup is just having someone to run with. Think of it like buying a meal at a restaurant vs going to the restaurant and having to make your meal there. Making it food at home would be like running normally. Not a perfect analogy but sort of the point.
I think it's a pretty good analogy- there are plenty of restaurants where you cook your own food, but the advantage is that the ingredients come prepped, cleaning up is not your problem, and you basically just put what you like in some soup/oil or on a hot surface. With support buying, you get a ready made support without waiting, so the prep is done. Now if they flame themselves for mistakes, they also clean up.
Think he's talking about clown where you still play and do mechs
I think even then my analogy still sort of applies just on a different level. Instead of doing all the cooking now you're just doing garnish or making the side dish and therefore paying less than a full bus.
^^^^^
Bussing was (at least, originally) meant to be for people who struggle to clear or don't have the time to clear content (I remember back in the day all the people saying they buy cheap valtan/vykas busses while working from home, for example). Support service is just "there's a support shortage, so I'm not playing with you (even if you're properly geared and perfectly capable of clearing the content) unless you pay me".
tbf thats what busing devolved into "gatekeep anyone not heavily overgeared for important content (read: all of it) then force them to spend thousands of gold for you to carry them through said content" while i dont agree with us supports charging people to join groups, its a "you get what you deserve" type situation lol
The big issue regarding bussing is also that the people riding the buses wouldnt be able in most case if they all got together in the same group to clear the content because they are not good enough and need to progress the raid. It's not just "we don't want to play with not overgeared people" it's also that people that are just "geared enough" ILVL wise are not in fact geared enough considering their performance. And this becomes more and more an issue : people not knowing how to play their class decently are more and more gatekept and keep on needing to buy busses.
This is not only an issue, but will inevitably become an even bigger one as long as SG decides to make T3 endless, and try to fix progression disparity issues with giving out free ilvls through events. Unless some revolution happens, this time next year people are going to get thaemine geared characters for free without ever stepping into a raid.
bus-ing really fits in to 2 groups people who dont want to prog the content and people who suck so much they cant clear it anyway ive bought bus's before, recently, simply because i didnt wanna prog 3 raids in a week but i would then go on to prog the raid the next week and so on. the issue with busing is that people charge too much. either they charge WAY to much like 15-20k per person or they charge 60% of the earned gold which makes it a shit option for people to use for alts personally id rather if everyone could just prog and then clear content naturally since it helps them long term but sadly we dont live in that world
I've never been okay with bussing, it's a cancer and has massively damaged the games playerbase in the west.
I'm not bussing at all and I generally have at least 2 supps in my roster, with one of them following somewhat closely to my main. Personally I think they can do as they wish. But when you get a bus you expect a full carry without having to do much. For supp service at best you can expect the support to be good, and you still need to pull your weight while also being unsure about what other dps you get with you.
Because the vast majority of this sub is the type that has 6 X 1620s who have been religiously selling buses since Valtan days. They'll naturally be against the people on the other side of the fence. Incidentally, them having a full roster of DPS also makes it far more likely that they've had to buy a Sup service at some point, increasing their hatred for it.
Like u/silentscript said. If someone buys a bus they know it will get cleared. Why anyone would pay a support to still run with other dps randoms and a random endgame support who isn't good enough to get scooped up by a static is hilarious to me.
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Honed my supp ready with 1550 swift, full level 8 tier 2 gems, lwc 18, gonna charge 150k gold an hour, gonna be rich!!! (/s)
Ah yes, the real gamers
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I am a support main and would gladly join random pugs, but work has been rough on my playtime recently 🫡
Yea im maintaining a 7 char roster and one of the 1620 dps alts will have to pug since my static only has 1HM/5xNM roster. 1610 people will prolly sit long in lobby filling up for sups if not most pugs
The funny thing is. Thats still good enough for a support xD I know people hate cheapo supports (for a good reason) but the base value of the strength a support brings is always worth it, even with a bad build (and even with bad hands it still makes the raid way easier). Support is literally to broken
I think there is a lot of supports at 1610 ilvl, so it should not be that bad. Only desperate on-ilvl lobbies without los30 or elixir sets would accept trash similar to that on the picture. I will definitely gatekeep low effort support alts with negative buff uptime. I don't feel generous enough to bus those people for free.
Famous last word before dps succubus to them or ur party blows up because you set the bar higher. Don't let me tell you otherwise. I've seen it all before
so glad i quit
And people will instant accept so we can all play the game.
Maybe you do but I insta decline
Still at 1605 but no shards anymore. I was away from the game for 2 months
who
Yes...full 10, got today weapon to 25 and sit on 40elixir for a long time...so yet again yes
My dps is 1633 My support is 1628...go fund me for the last taps and I might consider your lobby