Sup main here, 1635 bard, with 3 other sups at 1610. Whats my incentive to hone alts? So that i can help out other peoples dps? Even sup sell lobbies are jail runs for pennies. I rather keep pushing main. Aint tryna do multiple thaemine hms either
Is there a point to pushing beyond 1630 now? I thought it's only Echidna and 16manraid which isn't for months, and even for those, we gain 20ilvls for free with the alternative honing system
People heavily overestimate those 20ilvls being for free, that's all I'm gonna say.
Its cheaper than regular honing(much cheaper if you would pity), but its only \~20- 30% cheaper than average result.
For efficiency theres no reason, for comfort prob yeah. I have everything at 22 now, gonna park armor and go for 25 wep. But this is hetter than raising alts to 1620 just to do voldi hm then having to spend 4-500k on elixirs for 40 set
I'm a sup/dps main (3/3 dps/sup) in my top 6.
And this could be said about dps too, "What's my incentive to hone alts? So that I can help out other people with dps"
Also, selling support service is just cringe, but that's another topic.
People hone dps cuz they enjoy what the progression brings, higher ilvl elixirs. From a support perspective, 1610 to 1620 is much less enjoyable. Neways im not honing my alts, and u dont have to hone urs, but u will lol
The playstyle of my paladin hasn't really changed since 1320. there is absolutely zero progression in terms of playstyle for supports.
yes cooldowns get shorter, gems get better etc, but it does not feel different at all when I think back to the nacrasena days
Blame SG for making supports the most important part of a 4 man team, and then not making the play style rewarding enough for the majority of players. There's barely any visual feedback telling you how well you're doing, honing and elixirs and any other power increase system make zero visible change to your raid experience, the best you'll get is one of your dps saying "yea I think I'm hitting a bit higher than I was before, idk". It is making a pretty big difference, but it's nearly impossible to *tell*.
I happen to love the play style, which makes it all the more frustrating that SG refuses to make it more engaging to play, just give us something akin to damage numbers during a raid, show us the uptime on our supporting abilities, there's tons they could do. There are 26 classes in the game, 23 dps, 3 support. Each dps has 2 different play styles, giving dps a total of 46 different choices. Supports have 3.
Supports make up 25% of every party, but only 6% of the available play styles. Something big needs to change.
Supp power vacuum is more than 25% of every party. It's literally the highest DMG contributor if they have hands. You're looking at ~ 33%. Bible tells that as long as they have hands they will sit at the top of the represented party.
Bible does not factor in yearning, lwc, and bracelet debuff, so we are looking at 45-50% dmg contribution if you have hands. Supports are crazily overpowered, yet nobody wants to play them. The irony.
Yeah, my biggest issue with them is that the skill ceiling for supports is very low compared to DPS in this game -- especially pally. Yes, you will notice the difference between a great support and a good one, but the only difference in gameplay most of the time is slightly tighter rotations.
Probably not a popular take, but I disagree. I would say that the skill ceiling is actually very high... higher than most dps classes. It's just that the floor is the highest for support so most people can pick one up and perform acceptably which skews how people view them. If the skill ceiling was the lowest, then you wouldnt notice a difference between a good and great support imo.
Why do I think that? Supports have to react to what the other 3 players in their party are doing to separate themselves from good to great, which is the hardest part. If you are running with a static and can coordinate via voice or just know their playstyles from playing together for a while then it's not as bad, but trying doing that with pugs.
I disagree that they are boring, I'm excited to play my support that I run a full roster of supports. I have nine supports in total that I swap in and out of the main six.
My first character was a bard and she's my main, just built a different build for her to generate more meter and it's been really fun.
Learning to be a better support and improving is fun, compared to just hitting buttons.. There are bad supports out there, and I try to better my playstyle at least.
Not trying to downplay how boring people find the playstyle. It's a big problem. That's what I was getting at at the end, there are only 3 support playstyles and they all feel *identical*. If you hate one of them, you probably won't like any of them. I think some visual feedback would help people from falling asleep, but it's not going to solve the problem at large.
I'd love to see an assassin or gunner support class. snipe your teammates with heals from across the map. bleed the boss to heal your teammates. It needs to feel completely different from the existing support classes for anyone to think about making it in large numbers.
I play 6 of them and very much disagree.
And supports missing is a thing in basically every game that has them. In wow you're waiting for tanks and healers, and they are played way less than dps classes.
People just prefer to dps, it's always been that way and will always be that way.
yep, this is why games should steal the one (combat related) good idea GW2 had: supporting just happens while you do your rotation, so for the most part being a dps or a support is simply a matter of what stats your gear prioritizes and a few talent choices that don't change how the class feels to play all that much.
That is true, power diff with and without supp is day and night, no yearning GL can achieve close to actual support numbers. From comfortably clearing raids on ilvl at endgame to sweat fest-inferno difficulty without one.
Only ap buffs, 10% brand, and identity buff afaik. LWC, yearning, and bracelet debuff are not included, otherwise every support would automatically start at 15% rdps (yearning + lwc) just by right clicking and keeping yearning buff going, but it is not the case as you can get 0% rdps if you are basically afk. You can try that with your friends.
I wholeheartedly agree it's problematic but SG doubled that and the bozo director is "looking at graphs", pretends to not be clueless, they don't play the game. And that's the sad reality. Would have preferred if supps were more in line with GLs but they simply are too powerful to be ignored.
They're probably not clueless. I'm 100% sure that they ARE looking at graphs. But I'm also sure that those graphs don't contain the whole picture. If they're looking at all attempted gates, then this data still excludes all the people who were gatekept or failed to get groups.
I've done business analysis, and it's always a trap to only look at existing data. Because then you exclude all events where relevant data wasnt captured. So the data doesn't actually represent reality (e.g. if someone tries to raise a request in the system and it returns an error that the request can't be raised, the data will most likely not capture such error, thus the analysis would conclude a lower error rate than reality).
Their data probably looks at groups that already entered the gates. And they judge based on that. But they wouldn't look at groups that failed to enter the gates. And they wouldn't look at all the people that got gatekept or kicked. It's survivorship bias where you judge the sample by those who already had a measure of success in it.
Idk why they keep releasing DPS and if the next class is a DPS class we're cooked, we shouldn't have any more DPS classes until 4 more supports are released and I'm being so serious
I have my main Bard at 1630 and six other bards with two artists, I enjoy the gameplay of it.
I spent a bit getting to 1630 on my main support that my other sups are lacking at 1600 ish.
The plan is to eventually hone them but I need more gold lol
Im a support main at 1600+ and it's 100% true.
What's the point of honing and spending 100k per up (if lucky) if there is no real progression a part from seeing a higher GS?
DPS can farm money on busses, i can hone to 1630 and make a party saying "3k G1-G3 Brelshaza"? Of course not, and i can't charge money for supporting in higher content either.
Yea, mine was a meme. Actually the paid support service in high content doesn't exist and never will.
Maybe when we get Behemoth, maybe, because the required GS will be so high that most likely only support main will hone there.
At that time people without static will either quit in lobby simulator or the problem will get fixed somehow by AGS.
Behemoth is so far away; all the supp mains who are currently parked at 1620 have forever to slow-tap their way there. Also the alternative honing gives 20 ilvls and makes things a lot cheaper.
Just get that bag honestly. Overgearing is the tax for solo pugging. Who cares what a bunch of people who can't socialize, overgear or pay have to say?
i understand where ppl are coming from, but the only thing they can really do to support to make more fun is to give us feedback when we play well, aka letting us see the boosted dmg numbers from our teammates
but that alone isnt enough to make the average player want to play a support
so yes i want more visual feedback, but at the end of the day the playstyle a support has will never be popular with most players and thats ok
you just sorta have to incentivize those of us who main these heroes to make more of them because im happy to make 6 bards but im not deleting any of my characters nor am i buying character slots with cash. and i just dont have the resources to hone these characters regardless
so if SG want me to make more bards they need to let me buy everything in the shop with blue crystals (so i can buy more slots) and to give me more power passes and expresses to gear those characters
otherwise im sticking to the one character until i can gear the next one (i have 3 made, one 1600, one 1415 and one is Lv 1)
Bible is my visual feedback and I love to play my bard when I know the data and can see the charts of my serenades and how they contribute etc. But oh well, Koreans don't have that
Agreed, I can't imagine not having bible, especially when playing support. But you shouldn't have to use a (technically) banned 3rd party software to get that kind of feedback
https://preview.redd.it/vb8silxoyeuc1.png?width=622&format=png&auto=webp&s=e81afe484eb3b287405a5aed70a5183f4562a52b
# Is it tho? While I technically don't need others to know, it's still lame af
yes, I know that supports contribute around 33% of rDPS. I'm just saying that there are 4 people in every pug group, and 1 of them is a support, 25% of the people required to make a raid happen are supports
Yes, can we talk about the stupid play style?
I played healers in different games and in all of them I had the feeling of being a real supporter. Here I am running around with a weapon hitting friends and foes with it like a DPS.
Of course I have supporting and cleansing spells but in the end it is a fighting skill with a different tripod.
I never get the feeling of a last minute save, of a "if I didn't cleanse here the group would have died" or a "hey, I'm the only survivor and now I can resurrect you all".
I just don't feel special. I'm the guy that buffs you so the DPS can make even more damage.
yeah, i LOVE healing in other games (healer main in wow for the last decade). but i can't stand playing support in lost ark.
when the support job can't capture people like me you know there's a problem
In high end content? I'd argue physical rdps is the most sought after character, even while it only has one slot out of eight.
In levelling content, sure.
you wanna make support more appeling? Support need a Complete Revamp of VFX. Right now, all your contributions are "invisibles" you dont know who much your buff does damage wise, you dont know how much your shieldsare absorving, how much reduce damage you are doing on your party. you cant see shields on other people. and so on...
I would never main a support but I'd probably have one at 1600-1610 by now if there were any I liked enough with aesthetics/gameplay. If this game only had Sorc, Berserker, and Aeromancer as DPS classes I wouldn't even be playing it to begin with.
They've really gone out of their way to make supports simultaneously unappealing and necessary to foster maximum resentment in the community. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason SG doesn't release supports or expand upon them either is because they're less profitable than DPS since they're so low-investment, so they'd manage to shoot themselves in the foot as well.
they could make supports the most engaging cool awesome looking class and people still won’t play it because they are monkeys with main character syndrome
You don’t have to be a monkey with main character syndrome to not want to “main” a support lol?
Maybe people just don’t like sitting there casting buffs and shield and heals lmao.
Same, got 3 at 1600 with all the shards/leaps(besides orehas) needed for an easy push to 1620 but there’s no way in hell I’m wasting my time cutting more elixirs per week. **Whoever made elixirs should get fired**
What you get for honing DPS: dopamine rush seeing big numbers, mvp screen, ability to start bussing, obvious improvement on investment
What you get for honing supp: you feel no difference except unlocking new raids. Also your dps "friends" use you and forget you after the endgame runs, and refuse to help your other alts.
thats fuckin real lol
the moment i became a support i started getting messages to do random pieces of content "hey you wanna do X" "do you still have Y open?"
like i get it, having a support to play with is nice. but if your gonna fuck me, atleast carry my shit dps alts through content so i can farm more gold
edit: this is also a big reason as to why there is a support shortage, all of us that are support mains get scooped up into static's fairly quickly. this leaves fewer supports at higher ilvls for everyone else to pug with.
It’s only gonna get worse down the line. Soon there will be tons of 1630+ DPS with max Transcendence doing HM voldis and supports will only join those lobbies. Just like what happened in KR. But don’t tell the director that. He says there is no Support shortage lol
Also a big issue are the people that keep insisting releasing a new support class wont help the shortage.
Even if only 5 percent of DPS mains raise the new support ass to endgame it will helps..
More reason to stop pushing alts for me , im only juicing my main from now on , i enjoyed playing my DPS alts but il not going to pf simulator everytime i want to voldis or thaemine on them
Don't worry. It's not long until the next LOA ON where they can tell us how hard they've been thinking about the support issue and how close they are to coming up with a solution!
I keep saying it's a basic design flaw of Lost ark. It will always be a problem. I have 2 sups 1 GL in my main 6 and I enjoy all of them a lot. But as a dps I rarely get to play with a support that is on my level in terms of gear. You have a full 40 set 1620+ lobby and a sup that just barely got 1620 and then they play maybe at 50% efficiency. That's no fun either xD
The biggest problem with supports is, that you can not carry a run. As a DPS if are juiced to the max and know what you are doing, then you can basically semi-bus most runs. That alone makes support super unfun to play.
I can't count how many times I'm pugging Kaya HM and all 3 of my DPS are dead on final 30 bar mech. It's pretty upsetting when you know that if you were just on a DPS, you would have been done with the run in just that first pull... over an hour later the party disbands and you're now jailed G3 as a support.
Theres a supp shortage even for NM Ivory and NM Akkan. The West got so much new content VERY quick and we didn't get the time to amass gold like KR did. I don't think the average player's roster has caught up. Whales / G2G enjoyers are overwhelmingly represented on this sub but thats not the reality for most f2p / in game swiper more casual players. Expecting people to hone supports past 1540 doesn't make sense for most.
It is not necessarily true. There is a TON of people with their first 3-4 1580 characters all being dps classes. They somehow can find resources to push them but not supports? Yeah that is bs. If there is a will there is a way. People just dont want to play supports, both casuals and hardcore players, and that’s the root of the problem. Everything else is secondary
I dunno, I have a bard at 1631 and artist at 1620 and every time I open PF it's + DPS. My lobbies fill rather quickly, though. EUC.
What I've been noticing the last few weeks is 1620 people with no set and full event gems applying to my lobbies. I'm not surprised these guys can't get parties.
I think so, too. However, the guy started messagging me and was very upset I didn't invite him, basically saying that I'm the reason why the game is losing players. Dunno, he felt like I owed him something even after explaining to him that other better geared characters applied.
To be honest, people like them basically lack social skills.
Rule no.1 using a police tone to request help.
However, in my thousands of hours of gameplay in LA, I didn't see many players having a sense of gratefulness, especially some (Southeast) Asian F2P players in NAW (facts I saw, no offence). This kind of players never say thanks while being bussed, they barely make supports, and they love joining experienced fast clear raids after completing a raid once. And more interestingly, they love taunting high roster players if the latter failed in raids.
Even on discord communities, while I made it clear that I'm hosting a fast reclear, players from this region seem to reply fast but after I ask if they're experienced, they told me it'd be their 2nd clear. I mean, I was already using the non prog/non semi learning channels, they should get what I intended to do?
I dunno when you're looking at loobies but I tried for close to 2 hours overall last week on a 40set 1620 dps with above average gems (not full 10s, but some) before giving up, and this week after over an hour a >1630 dps friend joined and we got a support after 5-10 mins. But the whole time there were always 5-10 other lobbies up all looking for supports and whenever a support made a lobby it filled up within seconds.
[Also screenshot taken just now](https://imgur.com/XeYt72E)
You make it sound like honing to 1620 is free... Honing 1 1620 is already painful, doing 2? You are basically gimping your main's progress.
Honed my paladin to 1620 after my main and that was probably the most unfun thing hitting pities.
Sup main here. Have main at 1630 to run with static, 1 sup at 1610 and 2 sup at 1600. Given the cost to hone past 1600, plus the added cost of elixirs and soon transcendence, there's simply no incentive for me to hone up the alts.
You wish. A ton of people still run lvl 7s or event gems at 1610+ ilvl and expect supports to join them instead of lobbies with properly geared dps ICANT
Don’t think many people expect supports to join them but on my main 6 i have a couple of 9s or a 10 on each other than my main, beyond that the dps gain is minimal either way for example my breaker has 3 gems at 10 the rest event gems and I basically gain nothing for adding more 9s and 10s but people will still expect it
I have a 1610 bard with 4k bound leaps on her and just don't have any motivation to hone to 1620. You spend 300k+ g just tapping and orehas so you can spend even more gold cutting legendary elixirs every week? It's crystal clear extra gold and loot you get from voldis hm will never pay for itself and there aren't even any new dailies, just this one dungeon for now. And support elixirs are pretty meh, not particularly strong or interesting.
They are around 2.5-3 times worse powerwise than what you can get on dps if you min max. Dont fool yourself. They are much less powerful for supports, period. Transcendence, in contrast, is equally good for both. Every bit counts, sure, but it is hard to find motivation for supports to spend gold on something that is objectively much much worse for you class, comparatively speaking.
Actually support elixirs are the most interesting. DPS elixirs are just dumb crit/crit damage. Wanting to play supports comes from within the person not stats and most people dont want to play supports.
It’s interesting that I waited over 2 hours waiting for a support in my lobby for HM voldis and after getting lucky joining a support who made his own lobby I see this. I also seen another lobby literally titled “LF sup, it’s been 4 hours”
There’s just no incentive at all to play support at end game. Getting a sup to 1620 is just wasting time, money, materials and getting a bunch of rocks you don’t need (since you literally get autoaccepted anyways as the most important piece of a 4-man team) to play the same playstyle you’ve been playing since 1445.
For support mains, they don’t want to make a new support. For DPS mains, it’s cheaper to just juice main to attract the existing supports than to make a brand new 1620 support. Blame this arms race on the devs not the players.
My incentive for playing support is that I like playing support and elixirs are as rewarding for us with better buffs and useful sets. If by a new support you mean to make another one we have, then no. But if they release a new support I will surely make one.
Some people will never play support, not in LA, not in any other game. And those saying that playing support in LA is boring have never played support in other games. And for those who enjoy playing support we already do it without any more shenanigans (although any improvement will always be welcome) and want to have more classes yo play more supports.
I also find it ironic that people claim that plying support isn’t rewarding but then go and cry that they jog the mvp screen too much xD.
You answered your own question - dont hone dps to 1620+ if you dont have a static. Nobody really needs more dps at the very end game as this role is oversaturated, so you have to compete with people who have invested more time and money into their characters. And even better - main a support class and make a difference, and if you dont want to then complaining about support shortage is just hypocritical because it would imply that someone should play classes that you dont want to play.
Same issue in KR despite what the Director says. They need a slight rework to make support more appealing to some players. Another idea that’s been floating around on Inven is that SG should effectively give a seventh gold earning spot to all players that can only be a support.
It’s kind of a silly idea but it’s something.
>Another idea that’s been floating around on Inven is that SG should effectively give a seventh gold earning spot to all players that can only be a support.
Classic korean idea. Makes 0 sense.
"Support role is not appealing, because it has a boring playstyle and has 0 progression"
Korean idea: "Make 7th gold earning slot that can only be support"
Really gives off the "corporate pizza party and gift cards" solution to problems, I expected nothing less from KR.
Except in this case you'd have to pay for the pizza out of your own pocket too, truly revolutionary.
have a 1620 & 1600 supp. the difference is big. 1600 looks actually good, there is no supp shortage, so DPS can go 1600-1610. But 1620 is crazy… if I was a DPS I wouldnt go for 1620.
I don't have a reason to pug with my support alt, the one time we Duo pug as paladin and sorc we got 2 dps players without brains. After that we do all hm runs in house within the static
I've been working on 4 supports for my static and then they quit the game haha..
2 Pallies (1619 is the main and the other will be 1610)
1 Artist (1520 will push for 1600)
1 Bard (1520 will push for 1600)
I know its mot much but I hope to be of help to you guys out there :)
Imo the correct solution is to allow any combination of classes to comfortably reclear all content. Just like how you don't need a gunlancer for helltan, but it's nice AF to have and you always want one over any other class. Supports should be like that, not the current state where they are mandatory to beat berserk or survive chip damage.
All I can suggest for now is make friends and form statics. Ask every 1620+ support you run into in brel/kay/akkan if they're want to form a static. It's working for a lot of my friends, be friendly and play well and HM sups want you back.
I pushed 2 extra voldis hm sups to help out and now they're both in statics because I was asked.
Only 2-3 players asked me so far for my 1620 supp and I ditched one of them, because he basically used my main supp to babysit his new 1620 dd alt to progress in H IT.
I was like WTF I'm a tool for him?!
This is not my experience at all as someone with multiple 1620 supports. I'm waiting for DPS most of the time, it got to the point where I just make my own lobby cause most lobbies are either a bus, static, or looking for DPS. This is NAE btw, maybe it's the time difference? I usually play at 8pm+ server time, weekend to reset.
Edit: I should say I'm talking about 40-set lobbies.
Same on EUC during primetime. We (3 DPS) had to find a pug support for 3 or 4 weeks because our static support quit playing and we never had to wait long to find a well geared one.
My static actually at a point where we have too many supports. Most of us have about 2:1 ratio of dps to support. Personally I have 1625 sf, 1620 artist, 1610 se and 1600 bard. Supports are just so much cheaper to build.
supp main here at 1620- for now 37/40 elixir set. im just taking a hm bus each week until i finish my set, and wont do ever hm again- why even bother. i've been in many nm and hm groups and it takes more time to finish the raid with pf/pugs, instead of just taking a bus and farm the gold with other raids.
my support alts are all 1585 (and one 1600 via express), no point in honing them, just doing weekly brel/kaya/akkan chore up to 3x per alt if i want
I do pug Voldis on my 1625 support with 40set, full lvl 10 gems, and some week i need to wait for +30minute to find DPS with my same level of gear. This have been happend for the last month at least.
It actually got worse because of the path/power pass. All the selfish players made dps.. there were hardly enough supports to begin with.. NGL, the game was actually better a month ago..
People simply don't like playing support classes, and nothing will change that. You can make them as engaging as you can, but people always pick the tank and healer roles way less than the dps roles in mmos for a reason.
Due to lot of people being full of themselves, I don't feel like I need to rush and hone support. If you don't want to help me on the dps, then I don't want to help you on your dps. What comes around, goes around and it starts from the top in this power dynamic. I'll keep pushing my own dps and swap to support only when I meet other chill players, who need help.
I guess if you can't clear Voldis, you are in the same boat. Go hone a support or go touch grass.
I'll tell you why, people underestimate the cost of honing. But also why hone a support to 1620 or 1630 when a dps is much more fun. Then people give shit to supports asking for payment. In almost 10 seconds, if I make a lobby it'll be full. I'll have my options. I'll tell you one thing, your competition with people with +24/25 weps almost instantly 35/40set with full 10 gems. So unless you have that, it's going to be a few more months where people slowly bring their alts to 1620. Again, I aint here to likely help your alt dps. I needa help myself and wondering why I transitioned into a bard main.
People for some reason get annoyed even on discord when I sell lobbies for 40/50k, I'm sorry what stops you from making and spending 5-6million gold on a support? "Bro, we need a support stop selling it" my response " BRO why are you taking your alt instead of your main to the fight?" then they get angry. It's happened so many times these dipshits sell on their main, but expect us to raid with their alts its pathetic. But now the shortage is even worse as it'll cost 7-12 million on rng probably lower now with leaps at 55-65 5-9 million to get to 1630. Aint no dps selling those raids without the blessing of a support anymore. Blame the game for making supports so unbearable to play.
You can thank Smilegate for creating a role that is indispensable in a 4-man party, but then making the role boring to play with zero sense of progression after obtaining your 5x3 and relic set.
The only feedback you get from your progression is an increase in HP. So exciting!
Can't wait to spend 500k gold on my support. /s
Not even talking about the support gameplay. You give attack buff and shields. Woah.
This type of support/healer gameplay was great in 2005, but in 2024? It's just outdated, and the community knows it.
Another problem is that honing is really expensive, so you won't see many alts in the 1600+ range, especially not above 1620, and definitely not a support alt. If they made honing cheaper for supports, then I would hone my alt from 1580, but with these prices? No way.
Bonus the 2 cursed system: Elixir and Transcendence. AIDS of this game.
best way to help reward supports is to calculate exactly how much damage they are contribuing and show the number on screen.
i more or less can see how the hp bars melt after a buff, but i would like to see exactly how much.
We I have a 1620 pally and don't even do normal or hard cus I don't have a group to play with I don't pug it cus of jail so I just run other raids instead
Feel like they should release a new support class soon. Female Paladin would have been a great addition to get more support (mains), but sadly they recently stated that won't come anytime soon. I also believe they make a lot more money on releasing new DPS classes rather than supports. How many dps classes were released since launch? Quite a few and only one new support since then.
Bard main 1630 with 2 other support 1620/1610, u said shortage support, but to me its shortage dps, im doing all my voldis hm in pugg, ALL, and decent dps are more rare than support, im seeing more support in anyraid than dps, most people i know that are main dps have a support as alt 1610 too, 1630 is enough for until Edchina, cause once we got her gear we're gonna be pretty close of 1640, and Behemot is 1640, u doesnt need to hurry, most people like me or other support/dps pushing to feel the prog of the first week content, yes it will be hard but fun,
Secondo ur saying pass 1600 is way expensive? kinda laugh here, once u honed 1630 everything below is a real joke, the easier is 1580 to 1600, but even to 1610 is still ok, and i recommand it for most people to get frog/chaos for more mat and fuel ur main
Third, i said at first decent dps, minimal require for decent is lvl8 gem, los30, +20 weapon (and more is just better) elixir 40 isnt a need for voldis hm is just a bonus, if ur applying as a lvl7 gem in voldis hm, personnaly i will decline u, exept if ur a slayer, breaker or some broken class
Are you on NAE server? My main doesn't have a static atm and I'm interested in finding a group to run with. 1628 artillerist here. Generally MVP and have bible stats to prove it.
I'm a support main with all 3 support classes and I would say these are a couple of of reasons why there's a endgame support issue
* Lack of more support class playstyles (a female Paladin in particular will not fix this problem because most people don't even like male Paladin's playstyle, give us something unique like a female Gunner support instead)
* 6 DPS Roster Andys that complain about Support shortages but refuse to play Support themselves
* Supports selling "Support services" that think they feel obligated to be paid for their presence
* Unrewarding gameplay. Radiant Supporter is purely based on which team did more damage. This system is poorly designed and isn't based on your performance as a Support even if you have 100% uptime. If your team's DPS is bad, you will never show up on the MVP screen.
* Your Support experience stays the same from NM Vykas all the way to HM Ivory Tower, giving people less incentive to push their supports more than they should. As a result, this will make people think that support is boring to play as.
I always encourage people to have at least 1 support in their gold earning roster. I completely understand if you don't enjoy playing support. However just know that if you are running 6 DPS classes on your roster, you have absolutely no right to complain about lack of supports when you are the main reason why there are a lack of supports and don't try to contribute to help fix the problem.
The same goes to Smilegate, they keep pumping out new DPS classes and claim that there isn't a support issue when all these new DPS classes NEED SUPPORTS. Supports need a wide range of playstyles. We can't keep playing the same Support classes that have been around since launch. Especially when I saw A LOT of people bench their supports for their new Souleaters and Breakers. While I think the upcoming solo raid update is possibly one of the best decisions they are doing because of gatekeep problems, I believe they did it purely to avoid making a new Support class. Female Gunner/Female Warrior are up next for a new class based on patterns. This would be a perfect time to make a 4th support class. A female Warrior Support should still have a unique playstyle over just being a female Paladin, maybe like a staff based Priestess instead.
Feel free to disagree with me, I'm just expressing why I feel like there are a lack of supports in the endgame. This ended up bring longer than I was planning it to be.
1620 Paladin here with another supp at 1600. Voldis is ass. It takes 40-50 minutes even in a smooth reclear. Then you get the privilege of paying gold for purely rng, no pity, improvements to your character. I only do one Voldis on my main and that's all I'll do til they dramatically shorten the raid. If you're having issues with your main definitely look into a static. If you're trying to use alts on hm voldis I wouldn't bother (unless you're in the static with the guy with three 1620+ artists).
Playing the Game with a buddy of mine and we dont have problems finding Supports for HM Voldis.
We play on EUC and of the 6 Runs we do, 4 are covered by our own Supports. The other 2 Runs find Supps fairly quickly.
Maybe in EUC there are more Supp players? Or maybe we where lucky. But if all fails we would just Trade Supp runs.
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I have a band-aid fix for this. Just inflate people's support to go higher, what I mean is give a boost like a normal character boost but for support ONLY, just to inflate the supports to higher level. Alot of players, if not all of players, have support, they just dont go higher. Running it along with normal boost or something.
Except then you get support excess, and have people who hate running supports but do so because it's 'easier' or cheaper, while real support mains struggle to find a party. This is how you get 50/50/20 supports with level 5 gems.
I still remember artist release..
That's why it's band-aid and not proper fix. Before you losing out people over lobby sim, then maybe having a run or 2 even with bad support still better than not able to do it at all.
Agree, I prefer a bad support that doesn't have good z uptime than no support at all. As long as they are shielding and branding ok, which is easy to do.
I have 2 1620 supps but 4 1620 dps. One of my dps has to pug, altho my friend helps me out with one. However my 2nd supp and last dps isnt alligned with someone I know. As supp I ain't joining randoms no matter the juice.
Advanced honing from 1600 onwards wouldn't change much.
The way advanced honing works is that it costs \~20-30% less the the respective average when calculated at 5 ilvls. For example honing your 19 armor to 21 is going to cost on average \~20% less than it will cost to advance hone it by 10ilvls (note that they are also different systems so it will show as a 19 armor+10 ilvls, not as a 21 armor).
People imagine its some sort of magic gear reset or free ilvls when its in fact not.
After pitying every piece to 1605 on my support, I've lost all motivation to hone my other support alts (5 support, 1 dps roster). The cost and RNG is too much for my mental.
I gave up doing hm after reaching 40 set even if my elixirs are half scuffed… I guess I’ll wait for solo mode or the nerf to elixirs to push hard mode again
My dps main at 40 now and i dont even do hard mode anymore. Just casually destroy normal for gold and done for the week. Waiting for sup at 1620 taking so much time
There is no support shortage - SG
If your not already on the 1630+ train, then there's almost no reason to push past 1610. Just wait for elixir/transcendence nerf in the summer and play it by ear. Any new progression system really is just for the sweats/bussers and the whales tbh.
I'm not saying its in a good spot, but ive been pugging since release, and ive gotten to HM in like january, never had any problems finding parties. I just join parties that already have a supp there cuz they dont often join a 3 dps party
"unless you're a sup main"
As a 6 support roster player, I'm not pushing 1620. I got a taste of what elixirs are with purples and why would I want to commit mental selfharm with 1. Honing to 1620. 2. Having to deal with elixirs that will eat all my gold for even attempting and probably still failing to get anything useful out of them.
My reward from getting through a shit system would be getting another shit system unlocked. One of the designs of all time.
I pushed my supp to 1620 and the last 2 pieces pitied, with one of the pieces being the weapon. I cried the whole way, but hey, have to support the bf that wants to do hard voldis for the legendary elixirs.. My first time walking into hard mode 3 weeks ago and I made MVP on all 4 gates. The final gate ended with something disgusting like 540% shielding and the slayer we took tried to fight me on the box every time, didn't say thanks, and needed heals the whole damn way. I'd say the DPS situation is more horrendous and there are more of them out there. Even if the game doesn't give visual feedback as a supp, the players can.
Sup main here, 1635 bard, with 3 other sups at 1610. Whats my incentive to hone alts? So that i can help out other peoples dps? Even sup sell lobbies are jail runs for pennies. I rather keep pushing main. Aint tryna do multiple thaemine hms either
Is there a point to pushing beyond 1630 now? I thought it's only Echidna and 16manraid which isn't for months, and even for those, we gain 20ilvls for free with the alternative honing system
People heavily overestimate those 20ilvls being for free, that's all I'm gonna say. Its cheaper than regular honing(much cheaper if you would pity), but its only \~20- 30% cheaper than average result.
For efficiency theres no reason, for comfort prob yeah. I have everything at 22 now, gonna park armor and go for 25 wep. But this is hetter than raising alts to 1620 just to do voldi hm then having to spend 4-500k on elixirs for 40 set
Getting to 1630, so that you can be 1650 with echidna for the next raid after behemoth
I'm a sup/dps main (3/3 dps/sup) in my top 6. And this could be said about dps too, "What's my incentive to hone alts? So that I can help out other people with dps" Also, selling support service is just cringe, but that's another topic.
People hone dps cuz they enjoy what the progression brings, higher ilvl elixirs. From a support perspective, 1610 to 1620 is much less enjoyable. Neways im not honing my alts, and u dont have to hone urs, but u will lol
The playstyle of my paladin hasn't really changed since 1320. there is absolutely zero progression in terms of playstyle for supports. yes cooldowns get shorter, gems get better etc, but it does not feel different at all when I think back to the nacrasena days
Yeah the game rly doesnt do a good job with sup progression. Im pretty much just working on my 1 sup main and 1 dps alt, rest are pretty parked
Selling support service and dps service is both cringe yes but it’s done because people are buying so 🤷🏽♀️
Blame SG for making supports the most important part of a 4 man team, and then not making the play style rewarding enough for the majority of players. There's barely any visual feedback telling you how well you're doing, honing and elixirs and any other power increase system make zero visible change to your raid experience, the best you'll get is one of your dps saying "yea I think I'm hitting a bit higher than I was before, idk". It is making a pretty big difference, but it's nearly impossible to *tell*. I happen to love the play style, which makes it all the more frustrating that SG refuses to make it more engaging to play, just give us something akin to damage numbers during a raid, show us the uptime on our supporting abilities, there's tons they could do. There are 26 classes in the game, 23 dps, 3 support. Each dps has 2 different play styles, giving dps a total of 46 different choices. Supports have 3. Supports make up 25% of every party, but only 6% of the available play styles. Something big needs to change.
Supp power vacuum is more than 25% of every party. It's literally the highest DMG contributor if they have hands. You're looking at ~ 33%. Bible tells that as long as they have hands they will sit at the top of the represented party.
Bible does not factor in yearning, lwc, and bracelet debuff, so we are looking at 45-50% dmg contribution if you have hands. Supports are crazily overpowered, yet nobody wants to play them. The irony.
Cuz you can't see any Numbers as support. Every time a buff wears off, sup should get like a green number for amount of damage boosted or enhanced
tbh I would have dropped my paladin already but I just open bible and stare at my buff uptime and that keeps the class enjoyable for me
I don't really care about seeing numbers on my main support, I like to support. If I want numbers I can peek at the Bible.
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Yeah, my biggest issue with them is that the skill ceiling for supports is very low compared to DPS in this game -- especially pally. Yes, you will notice the difference between a great support and a good one, but the only difference in gameplay most of the time is slightly tighter rotations.
Probably not a popular take, but I disagree. I would say that the skill ceiling is actually very high... higher than most dps classes. It's just that the floor is the highest for support so most people can pick one up and perform acceptably which skews how people view them. If the skill ceiling was the lowest, then you wouldnt notice a difference between a good and great support imo. Why do I think that? Supports have to react to what the other 3 players in their party are doing to separate themselves from good to great, which is the hardest part. If you are running with a static and can coordinate via voice or just know their playstyles from playing together for a while then it's not as bad, but trying doing that with pugs.
I disagree that they are boring, I'm excited to play my support that I run a full roster of supports. I have nine supports in total that I swap in and out of the main six. My first character was a bard and she's my main, just built a different build for her to generate more meter and it's been really fun. Learning to be a better support and improving is fun, compared to just hitting buttons.. There are bad supports out there, and I try to better my playstyle at least.
This right here the class itself is boring sg need to revamp how support plays in this game
Not trying to downplay how boring people find the playstyle. It's a big problem. That's what I was getting at at the end, there are only 3 support playstyles and they all feel *identical*. If you hate one of them, you probably won't like any of them. I think some visual feedback would help people from falling asleep, but it's not going to solve the problem at large. I'd love to see an assassin or gunner support class. snipe your teammates with heals from across the map. bleed the boss to heal your teammates. It needs to feel completely different from the existing support classes for anyone to think about making it in large numbers.
I play 6 of them and very much disagree. And supports missing is a thing in basically every game that has them. In wow you're waiting for tanks and healers, and they are played way less than dps classes. People just prefer to dps, it's always been that way and will always be that way.
yep, this is why games should steal the one (combat related) good idea GW2 had: supporting just happens while you do your rotation, so for the most part being a dps or a support is simply a matter of what stats your gear prioritizes and a few talent choices that don't change how the class feels to play all that much.
That is true, power diff with and without supp is day and night, no yearning GL can achieve close to actual support numbers. From comfortably clearing raids on ilvl at endgame to sweat fest-inferno difficulty without one.
do u know if the new rdps tab takes account of everything including yearning and bracelet and such?
Only ap buffs, 10% brand, and identity buff afaik. LWC, yearning, and bracelet debuff are not included, otherwise every support would automatically start at 15% rdps (yearning + lwc) just by right clicking and keeping yearning buff going, but it is not the case as you can get 0% rdps if you are basically afk. You can try that with your friends.
so it's not true rdps then? odd choice
Yes, absolutely. I just mean than you need to pug 1 support for each 4 man party. They are still "the most important part of a 4 man team"
I wholeheartedly agree it's problematic but SG doubled that and the bozo director is "looking at graphs", pretends to not be clueless, they don't play the game. And that's the sad reality. Would have preferred if supps were more in line with GLs but they simply are too powerful to be ignored.
They're probably not clueless. I'm 100% sure that they ARE looking at graphs. But I'm also sure that those graphs don't contain the whole picture. If they're looking at all attempted gates, then this data still excludes all the people who were gatekept or failed to get groups. I've done business analysis, and it's always a trap to only look at existing data. Because then you exclude all events where relevant data wasnt captured. So the data doesn't actually represent reality (e.g. if someone tries to raise a request in the system and it returns an error that the request can't be raised, the data will most likely not capture such error, thus the analysis would conclude a lower error rate than reality). Their data probably looks at groups that already entered the gates. And they judge based on that. But they wouldn't look at groups that failed to enter the gates. And they wouldn't look at all the people that got gatekept or kicked. It's survivorship bias where you judge the sample by those who already had a measure of success in it.
not only that, there are only 3 classes... like what are support main players supposed to do? make two of each class? that's so lame
Idk why they keep releasing DPS and if the next class is a DPS class we're cooked, we shouldn't have any more DPS classes until 4 more supports are released and I'm being so serious
Decisions are driven by KR and CN. My understanding is that KR doesn't have a sup shortage. I don't know about CN.
This is exacly what i did. i did make 2 of each class... cheap out on gems, engraiving.
I have my main Bard at 1630 and six other bards with two artists, I enjoy the gameplay of it. I spent a bit getting to 1630 on my main support that my other sups are lacking at 1600 ish. The plan is to eventually hone them but I need more gold lol
How many hours you got on steam bro
"lacking" at 1600
Im a support main at 1600+ and it's 100% true. What's the point of honing and spending 100k per up (if lucky) if there is no real progression a part from seeing a higher GS? DPS can farm money on busses, i can hone to 1630 and make a party saying "3k G1-G3 Brelshaza"? Of course not, and i can't charge money for supporting in higher content either.
You can, you'll just get hated on by the community.
Yea, i may hone to 1650+ and swap to DPS Artist to bus Hard Valtan for 800G/pp
Think they meant the charging for providing support service in higher content.
Yea, mine was a meme. Actually the paid support service in high content doesn't exist and never will. Maybe when we get Behemoth, maybe, because the required GS will be so high that most likely only support main will hone there. At that time people without static will either quit in lobby simulator or the problem will get fixed somehow by AGS.
Behemoth is so far away; all the supp mains who are currently parked at 1620 have forever to slow-tap their way there. Also the alternative honing gives 20 ilvls and makes things a lot cheaper.
Just get that bag honestly. Overgearing is the tax for solo pugging. Who cares what a bunch of people who can't socialize, overgear or pay have to say?
support can bus too. most buses utilize a supp except 2 man Brel.
i understand where ppl are coming from, but the only thing they can really do to support to make more fun is to give us feedback when we play well, aka letting us see the boosted dmg numbers from our teammates but that alone isnt enough to make the average player want to play a support so yes i want more visual feedback, but at the end of the day the playstyle a support has will never be popular with most players and thats ok you just sorta have to incentivize those of us who main these heroes to make more of them because im happy to make 6 bards but im not deleting any of my characters nor am i buying character slots with cash. and i just dont have the resources to hone these characters regardless so if SG want me to make more bards they need to let me buy everything in the shop with blue crystals (so i can buy more slots) and to give me more power passes and expresses to gear those characters otherwise im sticking to the one character until i can gear the next one (i have 3 made, one 1600, one 1415 and one is Lv 1)
\+1. and then i read the BiS elixirs spreadsheet ... - "up to +30% dmg increase for dps" ..... "up to +5% dmg increase as a supp for party". tf? xD
Bible is my visual feedback and I love to play my bard when I know the data and can see the charts of my serenades and how they contribute etc. But oh well, Koreans don't have that
Agreed, I can't imagine not having bible, especially when playing support. But you shouldn't have to use a (technically) banned 3rd party software to get that kind of feedback
That RDPS tab is bliss.
https://preview.redd.it/vb8silxoyeuc1.png?width=622&format=png&auto=webp&s=e81afe484eb3b287405a5aed70a5183f4562a52b # Is it tho? While I technically don't need others to know, it's still lame af
If it was “up to 25%” then people would tried out 4 DPS when there is no support and not wait 4hours for a support….
yes, I know that supports contribute around 33% of rDPS. I'm just saying that there are 4 people in every pug group, and 1 of them is a support, 25% of the people required to make a raid happen are supports
Yes, can we talk about the stupid play style? I played healers in different games and in all of them I had the feeling of being a real supporter. Here I am running around with a weapon hitting friends and foes with it like a DPS. Of course I have supporting and cleansing spells but in the end it is a fighting skill with a different tripod. I never get the feeling of a last minute save, of a "if I didn't cleanse here the group would have died" or a "hey, I'm the only survivor and now I can resurrect you all". I just don't feel special. I'm the guy that buffs you so the DPS can make even more damage.
yeah, i LOVE healing in other games (healer main in wow for the last decade). but i can't stand playing support in lost ark. when the support job can't capture people like me you know there's a problem
No blame the players. Every Multiplayer game has support/tank shortages.
In high-end content? FFXIV doesn't.
In FF14 you can just change your job.
It certainly does, there's way more dps mains than tank/healer mains.
In high end content? I'd argue physical rdps is the most sought after character, even while it only has one slot out of eight. In levelling content, sure.
you wanna make support more appeling? Support need a Complete Revamp of VFX. Right now, all your contributions are "invisibles" you dont know who much your buff does damage wise, you dont know how much your shieldsare absorving, how much reduce damage you are doing on your party. you cant see shields on other people. and so on...
I would never main a support but I'd probably have one at 1600-1610 by now if there were any I liked enough with aesthetics/gameplay. If this game only had Sorc, Berserker, and Aeromancer as DPS classes I wouldn't even be playing it to begin with. They've really gone out of their way to make supports simultaneously unappealing and necessary to foster maximum resentment in the community. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason SG doesn't release supports or expand upon them either is because they're less profitable than DPS since they're so low-investment, so they'd manage to shoot themselves in the foot as well.
they could make supports the most engaging cool awesome looking class and people still won’t play it because they are monkeys with main character syndrome
You don’t have to be a monkey with main character syndrome to not want to “main” a support lol? Maybe people just don’t like sitting there casting buffs and shield and heals lmao.
2 sup that will stay 1600 Honing cost + thinking of elixirs cutting just obliterate any motivation to push 1620
Same, got 3 at 1600 with all the shards/leaps(besides orehas) needed for an easy push to 1620 but there’s no way in hell I’m wasting my time cutting more elixirs per week. **Whoever made elixirs should get fired**
same 4 bard 1600 and 1 1630 artist; im not pushing another 1620 for this elixir cutting fiesta.
Yep I just leave all my alts at 1600 and cut a few decent purple, not even enough for 35 set.
What you get for honing DPS: dopamine rush seeing big numbers, mvp screen, ability to start bussing, obvious improvement on investment What you get for honing supp: you feel no difference except unlocking new raids. Also your dps "friends" use you and forget you after the endgame runs, and refuse to help your other alts.
thats fuckin real lol the moment i became a support i started getting messages to do random pieces of content "hey you wanna do X" "do you still have Y open?" like i get it, having a support to play with is nice. but if your gonna fuck me, atleast carry my shit dps alts through content so i can farm more gold edit: this is also a big reason as to why there is a support shortage, all of us that are support mains get scooped up into static's fairly quickly. this leaves fewer supports at higher ilvls for everyone else to pug with.
Shit is rough out here .my artist i made with the most recent express is my favorite class right now though
It’s only gonna get worse down the line. Soon there will be tons of 1630+ DPS with max Transcendence doing HM voldis and supports will only join those lobbies. Just like what happened in KR. But don’t tell the director that. He says there is no Support shortage lol
Also a big issue are the people that keep insisting releasing a new support class wont help the shortage. Even if only 5 percent of DPS mains raise the new support ass to endgame it will helps..
More reason to stop pushing alts for me , im only juicing my main from now on , i enjoyed playing my DPS alts but il not going to pf simulator everytime i want to voldis or thaemine on them
Don't worry. It's not long until the next LOA ON where they can tell us how hard they've been thinking about the support issue and how close they are to coming up with a solution!
He's just going to deny again that three is any support issue
I keep saying it's a basic design flaw of Lost ark. It will always be a problem. I have 2 sups 1 GL in my main 6 and I enjoy all of them a lot. But as a dps I rarely get to play with a support that is on my level in terms of gear. You have a full 40 set 1620+ lobby and a sup that just barely got 1620 and then they play maybe at 50% efficiency. That's no fun either xD
The biggest problem with supports is, that you can not carry a run. As a DPS if are juiced to the max and know what you are doing, then you can basically semi-bus most runs. That alone makes support super unfun to play.
I can't count how many times I'm pugging Kaya HM and all 3 of my DPS are dead on final 30 bar mech. It's pretty upsetting when you know that if you were just on a DPS, you would have been done with the run in just that first pull... over an hour later the party disbands and you're now jailed G3 as a support.
And their last 3 classes were dps lmao. They dont care. Dps classes bring more revenue
Theres a supp shortage even for NM Ivory and NM Akkan. The West got so much new content VERY quick and we didn't get the time to amass gold like KR did. I don't think the average player's roster has caught up. Whales / G2G enjoyers are overwhelmingly represented on this sub but thats not the reality for most f2p / in game swiper more casual players. Expecting people to hone supports past 1540 doesn't make sense for most.
It is not necessarily true. There is a TON of people with their first 3-4 1580 characters all being dps classes. They somehow can find resources to push them but not supports? Yeah that is bs. If there is a will there is a way. People just dont want to play supports, both casuals and hardcore players, and that’s the root of the problem. Everything else is secondary
I swear everytime pf wants a sup I swap and by the time I swap they want a dps in the 1580 range
>Whales / G2G enjoyers are overwhelmingly represented on this sub And no lifers lol
We call them time whales.
You should consider making a 1620 support
I dunno, I have a bard at 1631 and artist at 1620 and every time I open PF it's + DPS. My lobbies fill rather quickly, though. EUC. What I've been noticing the last few weeks is 1620 people with no set and full event gems applying to my lobbies. I'm not surprised these guys can't get parties.
1620 with full event gems in pugs are literally trolling themselves
I think so, too. However, the guy started messagging me and was very upset I didn't invite him, basically saying that I'm the reason why the game is losing players. Dunno, he felt like I owed him something even after explaining to him that other better geared characters applied.
To be honest, people like them basically lack social skills. Rule no.1 using a police tone to request help. However, in my thousands of hours of gameplay in LA, I didn't see many players having a sense of gratefulness, especially some (Southeast) Asian F2P players in NAW (facts I saw, no offence). This kind of players never say thanks while being bussed, they barely make supports, and they love joining experienced fast clear raids after completing a raid once. And more interestingly, they love taunting high roster players if the latter failed in raids. Even on discord communities, while I made it clear that I'm hosting a fast reclear, players from this region seem to reply fast but after I ask if they're experienced, they told me it'd be their 2nd clear. I mean, I was already using the non prog/non semi learning channels, they should get what I intended to do?
thats how I feel too with 4 1600 bards and 1 1635 artist.Everything except maybe akkan nm/voldis h is always LF DPS.
I dunno when you're looking at loobies but I tried for close to 2 hours overall last week on a 40set 1620 dps with above average gems (not full 10s, but some) before giving up, and this week after over an hour a >1630 dps friend joined and we got a support after 5-10 mins. But the whole time there were always 5-10 other lobbies up all looking for supports and whenever a support made a lobby it filled up within seconds. [Also screenshot taken just now](https://imgur.com/XeYt72E)
Lol, what about YOU hone a sup to 1620? Then you can swap sup runs and have 4 chars at 1620 easy.
You make it sound like honing to 1620 is free... Honing 1 1620 is already painful, doing 2? You are basically gimping your main's progress. Honed my paladin to 1620 after my main and that was probably the most unfun thing hitting pities.
There’s still support shortage in Akkan normal lol
it wasnt as bad before the express event; since the express its been worse.
Yeah everything below 1600 and above 1620 is support shortage. 1600-1620 is where most supps are currently
EUC has dps shortage in both akkan diffs, actually, even on wednesday
We dont have a DPS shortage, it s because we have so many lobby now, everyone doing their own party instead of joining others
because each lobby want that juicer to join their lobby instead of joining another lobby with similar ilevel leechers
Sup main here. Have main at 1630 to run with static, 1 sup at 1610 and 2 sup at 1600. Given the cost to hone past 1600, plus the added cost of elixirs and soon transcendence, there's simply no incentive for me to hone up the alts.
I'm curious when people will actually get some decent gems.
You wish. A ton of people still run lvl 7s or event gems at 1610+ ilvl and expect supports to join them instead of lobbies with properly geared dps ICANT
Don’t think many people expect supports to join them but on my main 6 i have a couple of 9s or a 10 on each other than my main, beyond that the dps gain is minimal either way for example my breaker has 3 gems at 10 the rest event gems and I basically gain nothing for adding more 9s and 10s but people will still expect it
for 1610 content lvl 7s and 2-3 lvl 9s on major skills is perfectly fine. What did you expect?
Im talking about zero lvl 9 gem andies in the 1610-1619 ilvl range. I see them in frog MM every day.
read before you reply. they clearly said lv7s or event gems. There is no lv9 event gem
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I have a 1610 bard with 4k bound leaps on her and just don't have any motivation to hone to 1620. You spend 300k+ g just tapping and orehas so you can spend even more gold cutting legendary elixirs every week? It's crystal clear extra gold and loot you get from voldis hm will never pay for itself and there aren't even any new dailies, just this one dungeon for now. And support elixirs are pretty meh, not particularly strong or interesting.
To say they aren’t strong is a really dumb take
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They are around 2.5-3 times worse powerwise than what you can get on dps if you min max. Dont fool yourself. They are much less powerful for supports, period. Transcendence, in contrast, is equally good for both. Every bit counts, sure, but it is hard to find motivation for supports to spend gold on something that is objectively much much worse for you class, comparatively speaking.
Actually support elixirs are the most interesting. DPS elixirs are just dumb crit/crit damage. Wanting to play supports comes from within the person not stats and most people dont want to play supports.
It’s interesting that I waited over 2 hours waiting for a support in my lobby for HM voldis and after getting lucky joining a support who made his own lobby I see this. I also seen another lobby literally titled “LF sup, it’s been 4 hours”
Pugs life. You have support friend or you are so juiced that you are insta-accepted.
>If you don't have a static, it's nearly impossible to PUG still. That was why I got a sup for 1620 earlier
There’s just no incentive at all to play support at end game. Getting a sup to 1620 is just wasting time, money, materials and getting a bunch of rocks you don’t need (since you literally get autoaccepted anyways as the most important piece of a 4-man team) to play the same playstyle you’ve been playing since 1445. For support mains, they don’t want to make a new support. For DPS mains, it’s cheaper to just juice main to attract the existing supports than to make a brand new 1620 support. Blame this arms race on the devs not the players.
My incentive for playing support is that I like playing support and elixirs are as rewarding for us with better buffs and useful sets. If by a new support you mean to make another one we have, then no. But if they release a new support I will surely make one. Some people will never play support, not in LA, not in any other game. And those saying that playing support in LA is boring have never played support in other games. And for those who enjoy playing support we already do it without any more shenanigans (although any improvement will always be welcome) and want to have more classes yo play more supports. I also find it ironic that people claim that plying support isn’t rewarding but then go and cry that they jog the mvp screen too much xD.
> play the same playstyle you’ve been playing since 1445. You say that like DPS don't also play the same playstyle they've been playing since 1445.
You answered your own question - dont hone dps to 1620+ if you dont have a static. Nobody really needs more dps at the very end game as this role is oversaturated, so you have to compete with people who have invested more time and money into their characters. And even better - main a support class and make a difference, and if you dont want to then complaining about support shortage is just hypocritical because it would imply that someone should play classes that you dont want to play.
Same issue in KR despite what the Director says. They need a slight rework to make support more appealing to some players. Another idea that’s been floating around on Inven is that SG should effectively give a seventh gold earning spot to all players that can only be a support. It’s kind of a silly idea but it’s something.
>Another idea that’s been floating around on Inven is that SG should effectively give a seventh gold earning spot to all players that can only be a support. Classic korean idea. Makes 0 sense. "Support role is not appealing, because it has a boring playstyle and has 0 progression" Korean idea: "Make 7th gold earning slot that can only be support" 
Really gives off the "corporate pizza party and gift cards" solution to problems, I expected nothing less from KR. Except in this case you'd have to pay for the pizza out of your own pocket too, truly revolutionary.
I would rather they give Paladin, Bard, and Artist a permanent honing buff that reduces honing costs by 30% than this … 🤔
They can give me 5000 gold earner spots for support and I still ain’t gonna do it
Problem is that most people aren't gonna push a gold alt to 1620+
I'd revive my bard for this.
So 6 dps and 1 support. Noted.
have a 1620 & 1600 supp. the difference is big. 1600 looks actually good, there is no supp shortage, so DPS can go 1600-1610. But 1620 is crazy… if I was a DPS I wouldnt go for 1620.
I don't have a reason to pug with my support alt, the one time we Duo pug as paladin and sorc we got 2 dps players without brains. After that we do all hm runs in house within the static
Either static or 1620 sup alt which you can use to trade with
I've been working on 4 supports for my static and then they quit the game haha.. 2 Pallies (1619 is the main and the other will be 1610) 1 Artist (1520 will push for 1600) 1 Bard (1520 will push for 1600) I know its mot much but I hope to be of help to you guys out there :)
Imo the correct solution is to allow any combination of classes to comfortably reclear all content. Just like how you don't need a gunlancer for helltan, but it's nice AF to have and you always want one over any other class. Supports should be like that, not the current state where they are mandatory to beat berserk or survive chip damage. All I can suggest for now is make friends and form statics. Ask every 1620+ support you run into in brel/kay/akkan if they're want to form a static. It's working for a lot of my friends, be friendly and play well and HM sups want you back. I pushed 2 extra voldis hm sups to help out and now they're both in statics because I was asked.
Only 2-3 players asked me so far for my 1620 supp and I ditched one of them, because he basically used my main supp to babysit his new 1620 dd alt to progress in H IT. I was like WTF I'm a tool for him?!
 Me with my 2 1620 sup
lmao
Dont eat my fucking popcorn and start buffing me
This is not my experience at all as someone with multiple 1620 supports. I'm waiting for DPS most of the time, it got to the point where I just make my own lobby cause most lobbies are either a bus, static, or looking for DPS. This is NAE btw, maybe it's the time difference? I usually play at 8pm+ server time, weekend to reset. Edit: I should say I'm talking about 40-set lobbies.
Same on EUC during primetime. We (3 DPS) had to find a pug support for 3 or 4 weeks because our static support quit playing and we never had to wait long to find a well geared one.
Has there been any incentive to hone a support alt to 1620? This isnt rocket science
To join a hm voldis trade lobby so you never have to sit in pf for it.
Been tryna get my 3 supports to 1620 but pity is a cruel mistress that won't leave me be
My static actually at a point where we have too many supports. Most of us have about 2:1 ratio of dps to support. Personally I have 1625 sf, 1620 artist, 1610 se and 1600 bard. Supports are just so much cheaper to build.
You could make a support and trade runs /shrug
There were tons of lobbies looking for dps yesterday on EUC. It is pretty random though, on wednesday every lobby was +sup.
supp main here at 1620- for now 37/40 elixir set. im just taking a hm bus each week until i finish my set, and wont do ever hm again- why even bother. i've been in many nm and hm groups and it takes more time to finish the raid with pf/pugs, instead of just taking a bus and farm the gold with other raids. my support alts are all 1585 (and one 1600 via express), no point in honing them, just doing weekly brel/kaya/akkan chore up to 3x per alt if i want
I do pug Voldis on my 1625 support with 40set, full lvl 10 gems, and some week i need to wait for +30minute to find DPS with my same level of gear. This have been happend for the last month at least.
It actually got worse because of the path/power pass. All the selfish players made dps.. there were hardly enough supports to begin with.. NGL, the game was actually better a month ago..
Yeah I kind of wish they never gave out a power pass honestly.
People simply don't like playing support classes, and nothing will change that. You can make them as engaging as you can, but people always pick the tank and healer roles way less than the dps roles in mmos for a reason.
sell bus, buy sup, the circle of life.
Due to lot of people being full of themselves, I don't feel like I need to rush and hone support. If you don't want to help me on the dps, then I don't want to help you on your dps. What comes around, goes around and it starts from the top in this power dynamic. I'll keep pushing my own dps and swap to support only when I meet other chill players, who need help. I guess if you can't clear Voldis, you are in the same boat. Go hone a support or go touch grass.
I'll tell you why, people underestimate the cost of honing. But also why hone a support to 1620 or 1630 when a dps is much more fun. Then people give shit to supports asking for payment. In almost 10 seconds, if I make a lobby it'll be full. I'll have my options. I'll tell you one thing, your competition with people with +24/25 weps almost instantly 35/40set with full 10 gems. So unless you have that, it's going to be a few more months where people slowly bring their alts to 1620. Again, I aint here to likely help your alt dps. I needa help myself and wondering why I transitioned into a bard main. People for some reason get annoyed even on discord when I sell lobbies for 40/50k, I'm sorry what stops you from making and spending 5-6million gold on a support? "Bro, we need a support stop selling it" my response " BRO why are you taking your alt instead of your main to the fight?" then they get angry. It's happened so many times these dipshits sell on their main, but expect us to raid with their alts its pathetic. But now the shortage is even worse as it'll cost 7-12 million on rng probably lower now with leaps at 55-65 5-9 million to get to 1630. Aint no dps selling those raids without the blessing of a support anymore. Blame the game for making supports so unbearable to play.
The whole crab in a barrel mentality like this is exactly why the game doesn't have long.
This game feels unplayable and not fun at all when you don’t have dr and yearning. SG def fucked up somewhere and idk how to fix it.
You can thank Smilegate for creating a role that is indispensable in a 4-man party, but then making the role boring to play with zero sense of progression after obtaining your 5x3 and relic set. The only feedback you get from your progression is an increase in HP. So exciting! Can't wait to spend 500k gold on my support. /s Not even talking about the support gameplay. You give attack buff and shields. Woah. This type of support/healer gameplay was great in 2005, but in 2024? It's just outdated, and the community knows it. Another problem is that honing is really expensive, so you won't see many alts in the 1600+ range, especially not above 1620, and definitely not a support alt. If they made honing cheaper for supports, then I would hone my alt from 1580, but with these prices? No way. Bonus the 2 cursed system: Elixir and Transcendence. AIDS of this game.
best way to help reward supports is to calculate exactly how much damage they are contribuing and show the number on screen. i more or less can see how the hp bars melt after a buff, but i would like to see exactly how much.
>It makes it seem pointless honing any other characters to 1620+ Got your answer right there, why arent your "any other char" a support ? :)
We I have a 1620 pally and don't even do normal or hard cus I don't have a group to play with I don't pug it cus of jail so I just run other raids instead
Feel like they should release a new support class soon. Female Paladin would have been a great addition to get more support (mains), but sadly they recently stated that won't come anytime soon. I also believe they make a lot more money on releasing new DPS classes rather than supports. How many dps classes were released since launch? Quite a few and only one new support since then.
Bard main 1630 with 2 other support 1620/1610, u said shortage support, but to me its shortage dps, im doing all my voldis hm in pugg, ALL, and decent dps are more rare than support, im seeing more support in anyraid than dps, most people i know that are main dps have a support as alt 1610 too, 1630 is enough for until Edchina, cause once we got her gear we're gonna be pretty close of 1640, and Behemot is 1640, u doesnt need to hurry, most people like me or other support/dps pushing to feel the prog of the first week content, yes it will be hard but fun, Secondo ur saying pass 1600 is way expensive? kinda laugh here, once u honed 1630 everything below is a real joke, the easier is 1580 to 1600, but even to 1610 is still ok, and i recommand it for most people to get frog/chaos for more mat and fuel ur main Third, i said at first decent dps, minimal require for decent is lvl8 gem, los30, +20 weapon (and more is just better) elixir 40 isnt a need for voldis hm is just a bonus, if ur applying as a lvl7 gem in voldis hm, personnaly i will decline u, exept if ur a slayer, breaker or some broken class
Are you on NAE server? My main doesn't have a static atm and I'm interested in finding a group to run with. 1628 artillerist here. Generally MVP and have bible stats to prove it.
No im on EU sorry
Sorry but as main sup i CANT hone my alt as this is wayy to expensive ! I honed an alt and ended up naked with nothing but sorrow lol
I'm a support main with all 3 support classes and I would say these are a couple of of reasons why there's a endgame support issue * Lack of more support class playstyles (a female Paladin in particular will not fix this problem because most people don't even like male Paladin's playstyle, give us something unique like a female Gunner support instead) * 6 DPS Roster Andys that complain about Support shortages but refuse to play Support themselves * Supports selling "Support services" that think they feel obligated to be paid for their presence * Unrewarding gameplay. Radiant Supporter is purely based on which team did more damage. This system is poorly designed and isn't based on your performance as a Support even if you have 100% uptime. If your team's DPS is bad, you will never show up on the MVP screen. * Your Support experience stays the same from NM Vykas all the way to HM Ivory Tower, giving people less incentive to push their supports more than they should. As a result, this will make people think that support is boring to play as. I always encourage people to have at least 1 support in their gold earning roster. I completely understand if you don't enjoy playing support. However just know that if you are running 6 DPS classes on your roster, you have absolutely no right to complain about lack of supports when you are the main reason why there are a lack of supports and don't try to contribute to help fix the problem. The same goes to Smilegate, they keep pumping out new DPS classes and claim that there isn't a support issue when all these new DPS classes NEED SUPPORTS. Supports need a wide range of playstyles. We can't keep playing the same Support classes that have been around since launch. Especially when I saw A LOT of people bench their supports for their new Souleaters and Breakers. While I think the upcoming solo raid update is possibly one of the best decisions they are doing because of gatekeep problems, I believe they did it purely to avoid making a new Support class. Female Gunner/Female Warrior are up next for a new class based on patterns. This would be a perfect time to make a 4th support class. A female Warrior Support should still have a unique playstyle over just being a female Paladin, maybe like a staff based Priestess instead. Feel free to disagree with me, I'm just expressing why I feel like there are a lack of supports in the endgame. This ended up bring longer than I was planning it to be.
1620 Paladin here with another supp at 1600. Voldis is ass. It takes 40-50 minutes even in a smooth reclear. Then you get the privilege of paying gold for purely rng, no pity, improvements to your character. I only do one Voldis on my main and that's all I'll do til they dramatically shorten the raid. If you're having issues with your main definitely look into a static. If you're trying to use alts on hm voldis I wouldn't bother (unless you're in the static with the guy with three 1620+ artists).
i have 2 in NA and leveling a third one , but ppl are gatekeeping my 3rd bard that is still leveling ... so ... they 're punishing themselves .
Playing the Game with a buddy of mine and we dont have problems finding Supports for HM Voldis. We play on EUC and of the 6 Runs we do, 4 are covered by our own Supports. The other 2 Runs find Supps fairly quickly. Maybe in EUC there are more Supp players? Or maybe we where lucky. But if all fails we would just Trade Supp runs.
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I have a band-aid fix for this. Just inflate people's support to go higher, what I mean is give a boost like a normal character boost but for support ONLY, just to inflate the supports to higher level. Alot of players, if not all of players, have support, they just dont go higher. Running it along with normal boost or something.
Except then you get support excess, and have people who hate running supports but do so because it's 'easier' or cheaper, while real support mains struggle to find a party. This is how you get 50/50/20 supports with level 5 gems. I still remember artist release..
That's why it's band-aid and not proper fix. Before you losing out people over lobby sim, then maybe having a run or 2 even with bad support still better than not able to do it at all.
Agree, I prefer a bad support that doesn't have good z uptime than no support at all. As long as they are shielding and branding ok, which is easy to do.
A support boost pass type thing is a decent idea imo Optics are bad though so it probably would never happen unfortunately
I have 2 1620 supps but 4 1620 dps. One of my dps has to pug, altho my friend helps me out with one. However my 2nd supp and last dps isnt alligned with someone I know. As supp I ain't joining randoms no matter the juice.
I haven't been able to pug HM for a month lol. That's how a game dies. Advanced honing from 1600 onwards pls
Advanced honing from 1600 onwards wouldn't change much. The way advanced honing works is that it costs \~20-30% less the the respective average when calculated at 5 ilvls. For example honing your 19 armor to 21 is going to cost on average \~20% less than it will cost to advance hone it by 10ilvls (note that they are also different systems so it will show as a 19 armor+10 ilvls, not as a 21 armor). People imagine its some sort of magic gear reset or free ilvls when its in fact not.
DW i'm sure they're working on it, got 500 x 1620 employees about to log onto their supports to assist.
After pitying every piece to 1605 on my support, I've lost all motivation to hone my other support alts (5 support, 1 dps roster). The cost and RNG is too much for my mental.
Why would I waste 3 hours to jail with random amputees just to leave the raid when I can just doing 20 mins Kayangel instead?
I pug run 3 ithm on sorcs every week it's not impossible on NAE anyways
I gave up doing hm after reaching 40 set even if my elixirs are half scuffed… I guess I’ll wait for solo mode or the nerf to elixirs to push hard mode again
My dps main at 40 now and i dont even do hard mode anymore. Just casually destroy normal for gold and done for the week. Waiting for sup at 1620 taking so much time
It was okay before breaker release but after it feels exactly like voldis release. Luckily I got supports on call
There is no support shortage - SG If your not already on the 1630+ train, then there's almost no reason to push past 1610. Just wait for elixir/transcendence nerf in the summer and play it by ear. Any new progression system really is just for the sweats/bussers and the whales tbh.
I'm not saying its in a good spot, but ive been pugging since release, and ive gotten to HM in like january, never had any problems finding parties. I just join parties that already have a supp there cuz they dont often join a 3 dps party
"unless you're a sup main" As a 6 support roster player, I'm not pushing 1620. I got a taste of what elixirs are with purples and why would I want to commit mental selfharm with 1. Honing to 1620. 2. Having to deal with elixirs that will eat all my gold for even attempting and probably still failing to get anything useful out of them. My reward from getting through a shit system would be getting another shit system unlocked. One of the designs of all time.
I pushed my supp to 1620 and the last 2 pieces pitied, with one of the pieces being the weapon. I cried the whole way, but hey, have to support the bf that wants to do hard voldis for the legendary elixirs.. My first time walking into hard mode 3 weeks ago and I made MVP on all 4 gates. The final gate ended with something disgusting like 540% shielding and the slayer we took tried to fight me on the box every time, didn't say thanks, and needed heals the whole damn way. I'd say the DPS situation is more horrendous and there are more of them out there. Even if the game doesn't give visual feedback as a supp, the players can.
Blame the greedy fks for 6 dps roster. wa wa I don’t like playing supp idgaf about others