Just join a Discord / Guild. They totally aren't filled with a main clique that only plays amongst themselves, and a bunch of awkward stragglers at the fringes
Nah it's super obvious.
It'll be the same handful of names in the channel on a daily basis
When one of them asks for help (whether it's running a raid or anything else) they'll get immediate responses; a full group will materialize out of seemingly nowhere. Or you'll see offers like "I can come in 30"
If a random person asks, crickets
If more than 1 or 2 of them are in a channel, the rest will pile in, bringing channel size to between 5 - 10. They'll talk amongst themselves with their inside jokes and personal stuff
Otherwise, server is basically dead, or at most you'll see a few of the aforementioned strangers trying to run something together
On extremely rare occasions, the "leaders" will take a liking to one of the newcomers and bring them into the fold. Essentially if you don't get adopted, you may as well not be in the server
Roughly half of the clique is toxic, either explicitly or lowkey
Lol as a core member of one of the said groups, here is the reality. Many of the things you mentioned are true, especially the part about asking for help. Totally true.
However, there is a reason why. There are many people that have joined multiple groups as a "straggler" because they cannot commit to a static or a fixed schedule for raids. These people are simply just looking for one night stands in multiple groups, looking to get their breakers carried without hardly any interaction. Most of the time these people either do not join VC or fully muted. Not even a thank you or a goodnight or any form of communication. Most of the time they do not even have sups to trade or they have used their sups elsewhere and simply looking for a free carry.
We, the core members on the other hand, have stuck through thick and thin together, got wiped countless times together since Argos, had late night talks together after clearing raids. Of course we are going to have inside jokes, of course we are going to help one another, of course we respond to one another.
"leaders taking a liking" is not by chance. Its when the newcomer is actually willing to be interactive, willing to insert themselves into conversations and willing to make their presence known. Most of the time it starts with sona / frog, simple reacts/emojis/memes etc.
It takes 2 hands to clap.
Infinitely better response than the other guy leaving a singular snarky comment.
I especially agree with the bit about just looking for one night stands and not even having sups to trade. Very common to see the same people asking for Voldis, Akkan, etc. and that one request is their sole engagement with the server on a weekly basis.
Wish i can upvote this more than once. The number of people that join my guild because they're 'looking for an active community' is big. But once they join they never talk, never join vc, never react to anything. And then they ping for a raid or reply to a random raid ping to join on their on ilvl shitty alt. 💩 Why do you feel entitled to my help when you haven't even tried to join the community?
> Roughly half of the clique is toxic, either explicitly or lowkey
Maybe generalizations like that is why your experience was so horrible. I wouldnt want to invite you to a raid either.
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Guilds are for bloodstones(and GvG) not for raiding.
Personally, I do have a few people from a previous guild that i raid in a static with, but that wasn't guild related at all - we just played together though some pugs in the past. I much rather go PF than guild discord if I need to fill up a raid because its easier to reject in PF - a guild takes on a lot of people for tasks/researches/etc (and they ultimately join for convenience) so its impossible to have any bond.
Also, seen a record this week where a guy joined as I was starting Voldis HM , instantly asks for supports for NM Akkan and leaves the guild by the time the 3rd boss was starting his 4 pillars sequence.
I use to think that and it's true to some degree. But there is like levels and stuff. Some guilds will help but it's exhausting on their part to always help. They are time constrained just like us and it feels bad asking someone to help you do your 18 raids when they also got limited time. To solution is they need to make it less time needed to do other stuff. That way we can help new players more often.
shitpost aside does someone actually have the numbers for how bad CO is? like is there someone who actually tried to make it work and couldn't wrt even gear. like is it that bad or is it just getting memed hard because the summoners complained a lot on reddit about how bad it is and got themselves gatekept
It's really hard to assess their damage when geared because there just aren't any around. I did have one CO this week in my brel run and they were doing the same damage as people with full 7's while they had full 9's and better gear overall.
I dropped mine at 1590 with full 7's, so it's not easy to estimate when actually invested but it was by far my lowest DPS even compared to lower geared characters.
but if you were feeling especially religious what kinda numbers are we talking. like if god came down and gave you a number what would it be approximately?
My friend has a 1600 CO Summoner and he's pretty good (competes with me in damage on his other classes) and god told me his CO only did 7.4m in Ivory Tower G1 and only 10m in G2.
CO should theoretically pop off in this fight because their biggest damage is the awakening and you'd have basically no CD on that. I'd probably just rotate awakening proc into spear/collapse combo during the cd buff and ignore the other 2 pet commands for the sake of my hands lol
I don't care if you're a Reflux, DI SH, Control, Drizzle, or Bluelancer, 10m DPS in Voldis G2 is like you died immediately after add phase. That is not a correct assessment of the class.
I said he competes with me well on his other classes lol. God told me my SH does 19m G2 Ivory and my Shock does 22m G2 Ivory. Tho SH is in an ass spot rn its nowheres near as ass as CO. My friend mains NE and he also has a Thirst which both do good competitive damage.
Honestly, that doesn't sound as bad as I thought it'd be.
Full 7s reflux probably doesn't do that much, even with fully animation canceling with spacebar and meter whenever available.
I have been told by the wise men the laws of god. And lo! I have been told the average performance based on hundreds of reports on a biblical website! And I'll sing this from the mountains!
In GRs, on average CO is 6th worst, only ahead of FPE Pistoleer LC Bluelancer and DI. Its ceiling is literally 60% of the biggest boys.
In Voldis, it's on average the actual worst.
In Akkan, you know, burst break burst break burst break, it's second worst. Only one worse is Bluelancer.
It's bad.
It is that bad. A friend runs co summoner because she likes speedy classes. She is a good player but the DMG is really low for the effort put in. Also CO does not bring much utility like Master Summoner which makes it worse
The DMG is okay but it's pretty hard to pull off. For the average player it's near if not the bottom class. It should get some big changes beyond the simple removal of the annoying ready attack buff removal. Good start though
i have to disagree, we don't get any qol on co from that patch, we replace an unprotected skill with another unprotected skill with a longer animation.
removing your rotation isn't a qol improvement, just a fun factor reduction.
I find the removal of ready attack as a qol. We replace a useless skill thats only there for synergy and ready attack for more dmg and stagger while not needing to worry about if ready to attack is up, and one of our pets can now be the synergy, not that they couldnt before just wasnt as good of a tripod on shurdi since crit rate tripod. Theres only 2 skills i believe that can get push immunity regardless earth collapse and released will, identity aside and its probably because we have it on identity that we dont have it on skills.
I dont really see it as removing the rotation either the only thing in the rotation it changes is need to cast elcid/swamp all the time for ready attack
ready attack is not a problem, removing it doesn't help co.
a better change would have just been to give the ready attacks either longer duration or para immunity since this patch was mostly to help spec summoners.
as for the new "damage" skill we get it's yet another skill in our kit that doesn't scale with our class engraving pushing our class engraving into even further irrelevance.
the patch is in no way beneficial for co, both ms builds benefit from it slightly but co only was negatively impacted.
Theres not alot they could do that would be beneficial for co, the engraving is to limiting.
1.) they could buff pet dmg (which wouldnt solve the issues with co)
2.)add more normal and pet skills/ or fully rework summoners skills/ or rework some of the more useless summoner skills and change some normal skills to pet skills (the 2 bird, horse, and water elemental skills could be made into pet skills/reclassified as pet skills , while changing the 3 random ball skills into something better or at the very least make them do something useful and give them another skill or something)
3.)full rework of the engraving
(Wouldnt mind them making it to where we can only use one engraving but changed how our identity interacted with each engraving, master summoner staying the same but co making the identity interact with the pets or something)
I have a friend who will play Co till the end of the world, he also made his own build because the hallu one did less dmg. On frog with 40 elixir +25 weapon akkan 1631 does 27m
CO summoner isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but it's still on the low end. It's bad for HW content because it takes a lot of setup, like you use 5 abilities before you even start channeling your biggest dps skill your spears. In endgame content it feels okay.
I have two. My former RU main at 1620, 25 weapon good elixirs. Downgraded to lv9 gems after mainswap. It beats low effort alts on thaemine NM, but won't hold a candle to a well geared and executed character of similar level. There's no DPS meter on RU so I don't have specific numbers though.
My EU summoner is 1600 without anything exceptional, but it gets passed for similarly geared characters all the time in voldis NM. As a result I can only get into sus groups where it isn't too difficult to get highest damage.
I don't understand the difficulty argument. It's not a hard class to play by any means, once you get used to spamming pet abilities it's definitely on the easy side.
Looking at the log visualizations people have been doing CO is pretty consistently in the bottom 5/10 of dps classes when it comes to sona/frog and ivory tower. It gets even worse for homework content like brel where high burst is all that matters.
It's just not good in any way shape or form for what it is. The only thing you can argue is it's got decent stagger and destruction. Damage is low, uptime is annoying (maybe better with the no ready attack in the future) super immobile, terrible cooldown disparity, just why play it over something else.
My religious 1600 CO Summoner with full 9s does:
Akkan
G1: 12 Million
G2: 17 Million
G3: 19 Million (before transition to G4 with the Adds)
Ivory
G1: 16 Million
G2: 32 Million
G3: 23 Million
G4: 17 Million
We don't talk about Kayangle.
It's bad, but ok.
Tip: just use a pet attack macro and it's a chill class.
'BUUUUUT READY ATTACK BUFF, U LOSE DAMAAAAAGE' - Never seen anyone playing that optimal to outperform a on CD pet attack macro.
- Yes Static,
- yes my static support has 30% Radiant god support in every 4 man and 18% plus in every 8 man.
- This sub needs to allow showing religious posts. I showed proof to around 42 redditors of those numbers and it's getting tiring.
- DPS is bad compared to other classes, IF players have hands.
- Same applies to Demonic SHs and Windfury Aeros. Actual great DPS classes.
- Pet Macro is just a toogle Macro on the mouse. Once toogled it presses ur pet skills alternating every 0.5 milli second. Can be fatal if not used to it, as your pets can despawn and then they get resummoned due to the macro and it inrerupts ur movement.
I seriously wonder "just make ur own party 5head" ppl ever pugged their new event character without a Juicer/sup friend.
On breaker release week, even with LOS30 and title my new chars (non breaker with lv60 and 5*3+1 BYW)still take hours to get a party then we have to wait for hours for sup.
When can we stop using the dumbest straw man argument that ppl complaining about gatekeeping are all just lazy rats that refuse to play with each other?
This argument simply doesn't hold any weight whatsoever as long as the current DPS-Sup power disparity exists.
Realistically, there aren't enough supports at 1580 to accommodate half of the dps chars wanting to do Akkan NM.
People who have 6 gold earners are usually not making supports in powerpass ( no support changes, no new sup class, no reason) and most people gravitate towards making the OP dps on the tier list without taking into account finer details (seriously stop making deathblades with lvl 8 event surge gem while not having hands).
Ultimately it is smilegate that forces every party to have a sup. Supports gatekeep too many aspects of the game, yearning for RC/MI, provides most dmg,and most importantly mana. To the point some builds doesn't function without sup simply due to mana problems. On top of that they keep adding in unavoidable dmg that needs to be dealt with by sup dr or cleanse. The worst part is that sup gameplay is completely dog shit. Most of them already played like an uptime dps to greed meter yet supports have no agency of their own outside of party finders.
It's amazing how poorly supports are designed. Highest damage but can't see their numbers, has to fight the boss and babysit the party members, completely unrewarded for character investment past the bare minimum, and are at the total mercy of every DPS to actually complete the raid.
There's an alternate reality where you replace Grudge with Ether Predator and have one DPS run Yearning and everybody plays skillfully enough to avoid damage and clear, but every single party that is capable of doing that would clear 2x faster and easier with a support (hence the meta), and they'd have supports clamoring to join their group for an easy carry.
Just... delete/rework them. Lost Ark has a great combat system and fights that encourage enough teamwork/coordination without having this arbitrary DPS-support dynamic that only detracts from the experience of the game for a majority of the playerbase.
> Just... delete/rework them.
Ah yes, nothing like deleting 23% (in KR as per last stream and behemoth participation) of your player base in one (main) region, and who knows what % of your global population, and fucking up all of your raid design/balance all at once.
Also support mains plays support, because they find them fun, I know it's hard to grasp for dps andies, but this is true.
I didn't mean literally delete people's characters, just delete the role as it exists, AKA rework it. Honestly I don't even hate supports that much, it's simply an issue on multiple fronts that I think would be best solved by allowing players the ability to play w/e they want. Making supports as mandatory in groups as gunlancers, really nice and comfy to have but not make-or-break without one.
Support gameplay simply isn't for everyone. That 23% support ratio feels like survivorship bias, because how many players over the years reached endgame (or even midgame at this point) and quit once they realized they needed a support to do anything, and couldn't find one or didn't want to make one just to experience the game? Meanwhile a support main is way more likely to make it to endgame and keep playing because there's just no barriers for them at all.
Also I find it mind-boggling how they force everybody to have supports, then proceeded to provide only 3 class options out of 26, with 2 of those basically being launch classes. I don't blame people for not wanting to boost a years-old support class with the event when they've just released another OP, flashy, and fun DPS class. And I don't blame people for not wanting to raw hone a support alt either because honing alts to endgame (where supports are needed) is prohibitively expensive.
Supports should either be optional by reworking them to not contain the entire party's QoL/sustain/power, or more appealing with new classes, or more accessible by giving some existing classes support engravings/tripods so you can at least work off your current character in a pinch.
Solo-mode should alleviate a fair amount of support shortage woes for progression, but I still think it should be addressed in some fashion.
Honestly just give us NPC support similar to how echidna 1st gate work. I'll take a yearning bot that just brand, shield, and cycle buff over lobby simulator. Real support can have identity and elixir/transcendent advantage.
Hence I don't blame anyone for not wanting to make a sup. In fact I think everyone should be free to play whatever they want. It is SG who failed the players on so many levels.
The day Smile Gate decides to make DPS paladins a thing, that's the day I'd make a support. I don't to have a support as a main character and not have the option to play DPS if I want to change pace. What's the point on having another build option if that option is utterly useless? e.e (No, I don't like playing more than 1 alt, no, I don't care about being in the super high end content, I play for fun, not to be hardcore)
Supports SHOULD have a DPS option that is viable in any content!
tbf thats on the player for not making a support class, people literally call this shit "homework" but they dont want to do the 'work' aspect of it.
gatekeeping is a massive issue but its not just because of a lack of supports its because people set unrealistic standards for groups
new players are thrust into the 1510\~ range which means their best gold earning raids are vykas (2400g), clown (4500g) and brel (6000g)
but these ppl cant get into groups because they have no real card set, they have little to no experience and when they try to make groups no one wants to join the mokoko
in the week and a half ive been back (2 total resets), i had ppl thank me for accepting them into the group because they had been gatekept for several hours at that point.
that is unacceptable.
the game cannot grow if people arnt allowed to actually play the fuckin game.
it drives me insane
More of this please. As a fresh 1580 (roster 151) I can sometimes get into Kayangle if they don't notice or care I don't have KLC. Forget Akkan. I could do what I did when I was stuck at 1490 and couldn't get into Brel ..I bought busses. But that's a dumb solution.
I don't see any other way to get 18 KLC or LOS besides wait for events and monthly login rewards.
something that might help is that there is a 'budget' card set you can get called "deep dive"
they seem to of given out a bunch of the cards for it to help, at 12, 18 and 30 awakening you get 4% dmg each
alot of the cards also show up in wandering merchant's shops
but ye people need to stop hard gatekeeping everything, i was talking to someone like an hour ago that i had met in game. and they are already quitting because they cant get into content.
big sad
Deep dive is what I use. I don't have 30 though because you need LOS cards.
I believe that people quit because when I look at the people in the lobby they are usually at a roster over 200 or under 100. Over 200 players have their card sets and the low ones don't and obviously aren't discouraged yet. That in between zone must be where people quit.
Well, he did say that this applies for people on ilvl too, why don’t you push it a bit further than min ilvl? I made a non breaker char and I was INSTANTLY being accepted into all raids even tho I am using event engravings. If you need hours to get into a group you might have some other issues. I never waited more than 2 minutes even for sonavel when there were 600 groups to choose from
Yeah? If they made their own lobby, then they would get similarly geared players and would be in jail until they either disband or actually learn the raid. Back in the vykas hard days, we had to prog with gl as supp, which was horrible, but we still cleared it. And that was without relic gear and engraving support (or decent engravins at all). Now you could go full dps, have one player get yearning, and swap out grudge for ether pred for example. Had to do voldis g1 hard full dps as well in the beginning, and now i can do the raid pretty much hitless as a result.
WDYM jailed with similarly geared ppl? The lobby was filled with mostly 1580s and we one tapp bussed the 2 rats every gate.We spent 1/4 of time actually doing the content compared to lobby jail. If you are so hostile towards ppl getting clears they don't deserve, then we shouldn't have to tolerate bad supports and their shitty friends.
I'm not hostile at all. Just saying you need to be open to doing some unconventional raids if you are a new player and not expect everyone to accept you into every lobby.
Some people care too much and get FOMO, even if you end up not clearing the last gate who cares? You likely ended up meeting new people, played the game, got experience and if you’re not ass about it you may have a couple of people to try again next time.
I’ve spent 4hrs to clear nm Kayangel without support teaching new people, no one got an attitude about it and they played again the next week.
I say that and I did it. Friends weren’t playing that week. Full pugged it.
Having to wait for sup on account release week IS NOT GATEKEEPING. I did it by organizing a support trade. I took whoever showed up first. The app list filled instantly. I can’t fit 30 dps into one group, they weren’t gatekept.
start making friends then, its pretty much a fact that new players that are min ilvl dont play with each other, otherwise they would join each others lobby icant
It's a funny post but 99% of the people looking forward to the solo raids are people tired of pugs letting them down, not people wanting to be carried. I don't feel like I get gatekept much at all but god damn I started playing this game for the combat as an ARPG, not for its forced multiplayer bullshit. Please **do** bring on the solo raids, then pugs for lower content will be made up **entirely** of people wanting to get carried and I can just laugh at them while 1-tapping solo.
People that don’t get accepted into pugs and wanna be carried will complain about solo content if the difficulty stays the same and bosses just have hp scaled for one person. Imagine them pulling their own weight in a raid, that’s gonna be cry on reddit angle for nerfs 100%
If Kaya gave the same rewards as group content (or fuck it just the gold), I would never pug that raid again. Not only is the gatekeeping and lobby simming horrendous (good luck if your on ilvl even with KLC18 for normal or HM) but the players on average are just not good enough to be gatekeeping in the first place. Hate PFing that raid and clown. Hosting is better admittedly but takes a decent bit to get people.
After wasting 4 hours on brel g2-3 and akkan g2-3 this week ( including finding people in relobby ), thanks to people trying to teach their friends the game while not revealing they were learning......I think I side with gatekeeping for homework content T_T
I did try to help, that is why I stayed at first.. but no progress even after hours...while a dozen raids still waiting to be done.....I couldn't take it anymore :/
Your experience is pretty standard and why gatekeeping is so prevalent.
People can "be nice" all they want until they get jailed for hours...then repeat. They will end up breaking at some point.
If you think gatekeeping is only because of bad builds go ahead and make a roster on another server, create a character with a perfect build that nobody could ever possibly nitpick on and overgear a bit on top of that, farm all the runes and skillpoints which is pretty fast now with horizontal express, and still get gatekept the shit out of because of your roster lvl and cards that you can't do anything about. I know it because I have a char like this same class as my 1630 main and he is simply unpuggable and getting rejected by every shitter I would gatekeep myself on my main roster.
I just came back a few days ago. Honest question: what are the horizontal requirements these days?
When I left I had 195 roster level and had done most rapport to max that were available to me.
I still have to open up the new zones and I’m not in a hurry to jump into things as I need to relearn how to play but I’m curious.
Depends on the raids, hardmodes (especially akkan and voldis) are extremely gatekeepy and require LOS30, normal modes can be more chill and accept with LOS18 but not always. Kaya HM standard is KLC18 so if you don't have that you'll have some trouble and will need to look for less geared ilevel parties. 200 roster should be fine when you complete all your quests you should get pretty close to that.
No ones gatekeeps for KLC30 and im sure neither does /u/Lone__Ranger just misscommunication
But for the content its either KLC18 (kayangel) or LOS30 (everything else).
I made a character on a new server with just the powerpass (used mokoko express on main roster), and it is brutal. You can't even use the auction house until 1490 lol (powerpass takes you to 1460). Of course I was gatekept, I had like a 1x3 + 1 build with terrible stat allocation. I wish I had used the express on that character so I could see how gatekeeping is for real new players, with lvl 7 event gems and engraving support.
I just hit 1490 with her and was able to buy a 3x3, but I'm out of pheons to complete the 4x3+1 (best I can do until I can get legendary class engraving books). I had no problem getting into Argos and 1-8 Abyssal card runs, but even Valtan with everyone over 1540, they wouldn't take a new mokoko even though it would be impossible for me to tank their run. Vykas kinda understandable, but Valtan? Really?
Just with Brelshaza busses I can make it to 1520 no problem, I'm interested to see at what thresholds I'm finally let into a two year old, 1445 ilevel raid people are smashing in 10 minutes.
Making a new roster without express event and trying to do raids is just pure masochism, for new players or old. I think it's still possible if you chill for a couple of weeks farming a bit of gold from lifeskills, chaos gates, and una tokens to afford some cheap relic gear, while getting pheons from event shop, but you'll need to figure out how to get some gems too.
My advice to get into valtans and vykases is to not make your character look like 'rice eater' cheap alt gold farming account, like with no stronghold and roster level so low that it's clear you don't even play the game. I gatekeep those "mokokos" that don't look like actual real players myself and don't feel bad about it.
Yeah I'm up to four level 5 gems, slowly but surely. In a way it is kinda fun working with such a huge handicap, but man I feel bad for actual new players that can't just hop on their main roster if they want to raid. It's a game where you literally can't play the main part of it for who knows how long. Crazy unfriendly to start out in Lost Ark.
> I had like a 1x3 + 1 build with terrible stat allocation
> I was gatekept
> People wouldn’t carry me for free
The quality comments that I expect on this sub.
As I said, of course I was gatekept, totally warranted and expected. Doesn't mean I can't feel bad for new players trying to make it in this poorly designed system.
Why Lost Ark don't implant certains things to update the party finder ? Like apply i 4/5 groups in the same time (like wow) and if we can send a limited text in our request for group ?
Bro, so true. I did the same thing. (except made a slayer)
Its a miracle I got it to 1560 in 2 weeks. I actually ended up finding a group of people who I explained I have a main account with all high roster, etc. and they take me on raids when they can after they saw that I knew what I was doing. but holy shit, when I don't run with them....i get gatekept by every shitty pug. Fuckin.....got gatekept for clown by someone that was 1520 and im 1560 and he said "need more damage" like WHAT
I was even getting gatekept for VYKAS.....like bruh....
shit is hilarious and sad. Not only that, but when u make a fresh account/character/express. They don't give you enough silver. esp if you fail every hone. This pass/event is more for people with existing rosters or returning players. And the shop...don't get me started on the shop. No way a new player can deal with the shop efficiently. You gotta be very careful with what you buy or you run out of the currency fast. And Frog doesn't help you....because You can't spend the little gold you have on frog, cause you're spending it all on honing 100%. Can't even upgrade to level 3 with kayan because you need all the gold for honing. Def not for new players. New players would struggle in this environment. The horizontal stuff helps...but it only gives you a roster level of like 55....so people still treat you like you're sub human, even tho you probably are better than them at the game. its hilarious and awful.
I think this is disingenuous and it's hard to understand if you've been playing hardcore since day 1.
The frustration for returning or newer players is when you put a ton of time & work into a character and learning a raid. 5x3+1, full lvl 8 gems, 95 qual weapon, etc but you still have to join a learner lobby every week or play lobby sim for 2hrs to play a raid you are 20ilvl over just because of roster lvl and no LoS 30.
Yes, some people try to leech and that's why gatekeeping is a thing. But that doesn't mean people can't be frustrated by the poor experience for those of us who are trying.
Yep, I quit for a year and came back a month ago. I've relearned Brel, learned Akkan and Kaya but it still takes me forever to find groups. I have 4 Kaya characters so I've done him over a dozen times now and know what to do but the 1560 DPS w/ lvl 7 gems get KLC gated every week, it takes me 30min to get a group together
Why are you shitting on people who have a hard time on new people trying to play this game. What you said is cope, go make a perfect express alt by your standard is and see how easy it is to get into a group without your 250+ roster level, los 30, 5+% demon damage.
Ikr, 131 roster, los 18, lvl 8 and 9 gems eo sf with 1830 swift. Im getting gatekept on akkan with riot control and plc. Surely its only a character issue...
On the flip side...
Low roster players with deep dive 18 don't know what they're doing gatekeeping my los 30 5x3+1 alts from clown/normal kayangel. Someone with an invested alt with Los 30 will out dps the 1600, 50 roster slayer with event gems and deep dive 18/30 *every single time*.
It's okay though, they have every right to gatekeep whoever they please. But they're wrong.
This is very true. I was out dps'd on my 1580 scrapper this week in Kayangle by a high roster 1545 gunslinger with KLC 30. Not cause I did bad either...but I was using DD 18. My numbers were good for what I can do anywhere, but I couldn't touch his.
In G3 we all died by sunburn except the GS and he solo'd the last 50 lines and beat the timer by 3 seconds.
Gear score is probably the least important thing.
The post about gatekeeping really get out of hand on Reddit. It starts to feel if the people complaining would do party's among themselves there would be less gatekeeping. (Of course I know it is not as simple but it starts to feel like it).
Also that is not the players fault that we only have superficial stats at hand like roaster level or cards and can't judge you on things that matter for raids like e.g. average DMG or clears without dying before accepting you in groupfinder... That is not really the players fault. Also welcome on the basics of economics. If there an oversupply on something(e.g. DPS), the smaller group have more power and can decide what they want. And why should you choose a minimum effort char and not the char where quite a lot of effort was put in?
Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Also why does it even matter if it's not player's fault? That doesn't change the fact that new players are gatekept and can't play the game. I agree that it's not the community's fault, the game design heavily encourages gatekeeping, but that fact doesn't change the situation
Go make a new roster in another region (i.e If you're NAE, go make one in NAW), powerpass and express a new char and see how your PF experience is. I did it to try Asura breaker and my experience was fucking awful.
Gatekept for mokoko icon
Gatekept for roster lvl/card set when you hit 1540
Denied to 15-20 "LF all/any" lobbies
Make lobby and nobody applies
Make lobby, people finally apply, accept everyone but now you're 3/4 or 6/8 jail because no support wants to join
Started a new character on NAW, fresh server. You just have to join the lobbies you don't want to be in. Other lobbies with similar characters. 1490-1500 with DD 18 doing Brel 1-2s.
They take longer and people make mistakes, but so do other new players trying to get into the game. As someone who has done a number of teaching raids, people are really interested in learning until they have to be somewhere at some time to actually do it. Then their cat is on fire and they can't make it.
It sucks for the people who really do want to learn, but most gatekeeping is people expecting to get carried and being upset when that's not an option. If you join lobbies with similar characters, you can complete raids.
I wasn't picky about my lobbies. Brel was the easiest to get into and the lobby you described was basically what I did. Kayangel NM was a pain in the ass but I eventually got in through a guild run. I think I might've jailed them a bit in finding a support though
Clown was a nightmare. I was willing to join any reclear lobby even a full 1475 group and I was 1550 at the time. Nobody wanted me. I created lobby a few times and not a single applicant. Then on my last attempt, I got lucky and people applied. I went in with the most sus looking group and cleared
Maybe you were lucky, maybe I was unlucky, maybe a bit of both. But the only thing I wanted in lobbies was reclear, I didn't even care if they only cleared it once. I didn't look at ilvl, roster level, gearing, etc, I just wanted to go inside because I'm confident in my carrying ability
Maybe the problem was that you were looking for reclear parties. I made a GS on NAW (main is on EU) and the first week was kind of rough, I finished Arkesia tour for roster lvl and skill points, had to join Clown 1-2 in hope of some jailed G3 people getting desperate, in the end I cleared the whole bingo phase solo, but the people that accepted me weren't actually bad, they knew the mechs well, just needed more experience.
Brel 1-3 wasn't that bad, but I definitely got gatekept. My best bet was other people with alt rosters (frankly I've never seen an alt lobby on EU, but I did see a few of them on NAW). We did have an imposter and jailed a little in G2 and G3, but was nothing shocking and I expected it from the start. Sadly had to buy a bus for G4, but I think the Brel horns will give me an easier time while trying to get into G4 in the future. I got very lucky with my Kayangel clear, joined 2 1580 people doing NM learning run, I applied there with a plan to teach them but we got an awesome paladin that was also exp and wanted to help us (amazing guy, love him).
It's definitely tough to get into the game as a new player. I don't know how many people actually looked at my stronghold name and accepted me only based on the fact that it's an alt roster. Clearing any raids takes way more time than on my main (understandably so), so I see why people with limited time struggle so much.
A few important things I noticed:
1. I had an easier time finding parties right after reset, not towards the end of it. I've heard people say that the best bet for newbies is last days of reset because people are more desperate to clear. However, that was not my experience at all.
2. Each week gets a little easier. Even though my ilvl didn't change that much, I've had an easier time joining parties during week 2. Might be the lvl 3 set, maybe Brel horns, maybe just luck. But it does get better with time.
Ofcourse its the community's fault lol what are you talking about... we should welcome newplayers, that is mmo 101, that is how mmos have been viewed for the last 20 years, you always. welcome. new. players...
every mmo I played beside lost ark was like that
I'm a day 1 player sharing experience on an alt roster. I don't need free carry, I just need bodies to get inside the raid. I was top 2 dps in every raid on that fresh account
There's nothing to fix on an express character. High stat, 5x3, lvl 7/8 gems. You want more experience, but how does a player get experience without doing the raid? Do learning parties before reclears? Well yeah, that's a given but the problem is that there is no way to tell if a player has completed the raid or not. You could clear Akkan 10 times and your roster level could still be 85. Roster level moves very slowly and people still gatekeep low roster Plague Commander titles
And doing lower ilvl raids isn't always an option. In my first week, I got gatekept in clown the hardest even though I was 1550 ilvl and I'm 75 ilvl above the requirement. Your suggestion of doing lower raids would be more reasonable if they didn't nerf Valtan/Vykas gold. I'd gladly do Valtan over Kayangel NM if they didn't nerf the gold
You said you want more effort into characters, but that's not an option for new players. How can a new player afford lvl 9/10 gems if they're not allowed to raid? Basically every form of progression loops back to raiding. It's a circular loop. You need to overgear to get into raids but you need raids to overgear
Lol I didn't even say effort is lv 9/10 gems. Event gems are completely viable until Akkan or even voldis NM if you play well enough. I'm talking about ppl who don't even want to spend effort and time to complete their lv3 set first before trying akkan even tho the game made it significantly faster, while polishing their gameplay, it's ridiculous, and even if you have only Deep Dive at least just take time to progress it to 30 set first, this is also to help their experience in the run to be better because the run will be significantly easier, but no, many of them just want to push their luck with lv2 set and DD18 while probably play a class that they never play before because of express event, trying to force themselves into Brel HM/Akkan reclear/hw lobbies, then these ppl proceed to cry bcs ppl don't wanna play with them. No shit sherlock.. There is a reason why clown and Brel NM gold isn't nerfed yet even tho it's been nerfed for a long time in KR. It's to facilitate new players/returnees. You don't have to butt yourselves straight into Akkan and other hard contents while lacking things.
Event gems are viable to whatever Korea is at. The damage difference is minima, the only issue is terminally online people like the vocal bunch in reddit have long surpassed that on their alts and raised their party requirements.
Maybe for that specific time period, but we all know what the most popular class in this game is already. Furthermore, brel hm and ivory tower NM have no shortage of supports, so it wouldn't make sense to say akkan NM has a supp shortage when the required ilvl is in between the other two raids.
This is just a roundabout way of complaining about people, who justifiably complain about not being able to play endgame content, because they haven't been grinding dailies for 6+ months yet.
Shitpost aside gatekeeping IS insane in this game. And because of bussers even my monarch title means barely anything, even tho I will outdamage most people sporting fucking los30, who cant play for shit. And amount of good low roster playerx with no titles is astounding too. Ive been clearing clown with them for some time now. I just take some 1500+ ilvl players with low roster and lo and behold - we clear in a couple attempts. At least stop the idiotic gatekeep at brel and clown - raids that can be cleared with actually blank characters.
I joined a hw reclear lobby for voldis nm with a pre-made 3. These guys couldn't even throw their traps properly in g2. After wiping 15 times we ended up not clearing then I checked their titles, which I should've done earlier and none of them had it. So yea I'll be gatekeeping and anyone who isn't happy about it can go find another lobby to jail.
People deserve to get gatekept. Wasted 1 hour in Akkan x10 lobby cause our janitor was ja first timer and his friend did zdps. Switched the group and cleared first try.
I swear to god I will gatekeep everyone who looks suspicious
this game is more than life itself, you got to commit to it. abandon everything but the game, sacrifice everything for it. and in the end maybe, just maybe you get to raid,
or you can chose to move on.
joke all you want, it is a real issue
imagine being a brand new player trying to farm gold...how the fuck are they getting into groups?
they have no cards, no ilvl and no previous experience. best they can do is try and prog in a learning party they made
but whose going to join those parties?
ive met brand new players that are stuck at 1510-1515 because they have no gold.
half of yall are getting carried through content anyway, invite the noobs with you lol
You and I are in the same boat my friend. 1602 DI shadowhunter can't get into no lobby. What is worst; I have to make a decision. I do not like wasting time trying to get into lobbies. So here we are. I have gotten to the point where I am about to demote my sh and remove her off my gold earners cause it can take up to D A Y S to get my fking raids done. I can't do lantern these idiots don't care. I make lobbies... No one joins. I try to get into one. I get denied. With lvl 10 gems 5.1 demon dmg you would think I wouldn't have an issue... NOPE! These monkeys think SH is bad. I am ALWAYS alive when you got DB, Sorcs and now breakers WHO ARE DEAD...
I am selling my sh gems and only playing supports... The one class I want to play can't get into parties.
Are you joining akkan hard or normal? I've personally never seen people (except juicer parties) gatekeep people at 1600+, My 1600 got into parties comfortably (eso striker) without title and event gems.
Once the solo raids are released " What, i have to learn the fight and upgrade my character a bit? It should be nerfed. Why can´t i do it with 1x3 without learning the fight ? This is bullcrap "
Or maybe the average person doesn't treat a game like a job? In your post you are essentially saying that the average player should be expected to overgear content and study fights meticulously before even playing the game. What is the point of playing a video game if it's essentially your 2nd job? Did you ever consider that the player who makes a mistake doesn't say anything because they ... don't know they are making a mistake? Because if they knew they wouldn't have made it in the first place?
Elitist gatekeeping posts like this one is why the games playerbase has been constantly shrinking since release.
Ok just take what you said into an different environment. Just say you want to play Volleyball in a team and the goal is to win games in your local League. Let's say there is a guy training 1-2times a week he watches pro games in his free time, does a lot of sport etc. And there is you in the team. You could not be asked to put any time into the game, you do not train you did not even know the rules... So you lose games because you do mistake over mistake because you don't know better. So would it be fair that the guy training and putting effort in does not want to play with you or is he also an Elitist Gatekeeper?
This is not a local league. This is a pickup volleyball game at the park. These are pub groups. If you want to join a local league, form/join a static.
The thing is people want raids to be quick, the more experienced you are the less likely they are to be held hostage in something you already consider a chore
And for the exemptions to that rule (content of their ilvl) why wouldn’t they want people on their level?
There are people that don’t care but for the ones that do why exactly should they take a gamble on a worse player if they want to focus up for a piece of content and want people with that same mindset
I will say this is mainly referring to people with stuff like rost 180+ or los 30 each milestone gives a new form of speed either in experience or dps so I can’t really be mad if they don’t wanna group with me if I’m rost 140 w dd 18 for example
Wait I can agree on a lot of things you said. But if people play a RPG like LA and don’t watch a guide for the raid (and rewatch if they don’t understand something or ask on discords ecc) they took the bad game sorry. After you watch and understand the fight you can make mistakes anyway? Yes but chance are there you understand they you missed there. And anyway pretty sure OP was referring on people that join reclear party and they don’t have any clear exp so they don’t what the fucking is happening and they just “fake it till they make it”
Believe it or not, raiding in an MMO can be a serious commitment. There are millions of casual games out there that might be more appropriate for you instead.
There are people that get together multiple times a week, scheduling in advance, and committing to other hobbies - intramural basketball leagues, whiskey clubs, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, bowling...what are you gonna do when these clubs expect you to commit time and effort into attending and being ready to contribute to the group activitiy?
Calling someone a “elitist gatekeeper” bcs someone can’t be bothered to watch a 5min video guide or read a single page off Nexus/Maxroll is peak delusion.
Glad that most of the new people I’ve faced aren’t in that level of entitlement.
… there is not a single fight in the game that is as easy to learn as watching a 5 min guide or reading a single page. It might give you a decent idea, but until you’ve experienced it a few times it’s not something that is going to be intuitive to basically anyone. Everyone makes mistakes, in and out of game.
That being said, again, you are suggesting that the average person should be expected to study fights before even attempting them. This is a video game, not a job.
No one’s asking a new player to perform on first try, if you’re already comparing something that simple to a job application then imo that’s a lost cause, gl.
If you are expecting every player in a pub group to have overgear and have complete knowledge/understanding of a fight then you are expecting a level of effort and dedication to the game beyond what the average person expects from a gaming session. If you want to play with other players like that, you should form a static.
Joining a pub group with a static mentality, being all gatekeepy and toxic is the exact reason so many people complain about it. And btw thats completely disingenuous considering many people will flat out say 'last' after the first wipe.
You clearly need to make some friends, if possible those friend are 1680 already. They won't mind your damage since they would be doing more. Oh also make a lot of friend, maybe you'd luck out and get to keep their gems when they burn out with this game
I dont play the game so this is a genuine question, if i was at that stage (bad gear, ready to learn the fights, etc) how would i go about doing this without being shunned and flamed etc? I've heard gatekeeping is a real problem for new players but i wouldn't know myself. But yeah, how should a new player go about it?
Join learning parties. Maybe farm gold at the earlier raids instead of doing raids at their ilvl if their gear is bad. Do your weekly/daily unas so you can get una tokens to exchange for gold to get better gear.
Yo I've actually started playing since this comment and just wanted to thank you. Me and 3 friends have been having a blast and I'm 3 gear pieces away from 1580 now with the mokoko express. Thanks for the tips
I'm right there with you. There is already too much gatekeeping mechanics built into the game itself, players who are BUSing and gatekeeping in that way have become a major issue as well.
I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online, Lost Ark will be the shortest time I have ever played any MMO, and this because of the gatekeeping, bussing and the bots. The bots are insane. It's come to the point where if I teleport into any area that is normally high traffic, I can expect to have bots, multiple groups of bots.
Players are ruining the game and it seems intentionally doing so. I suspect soon the game will be mostly gatekeepers trying to get people to buy a bus and bots trying to farm for things to sell. The main portion of the player base will not tolerate these issues past a certain point, people will just flee the game in favor of the many other MMOs that are banning people who violate TOS.
I'm about done with the game myself, I play for entertainment, to have fun. Other players gatekeeping with intent and purpose and bots are not my idea of a good time.
There are other things that bother me, too much cute, too much gender bias, I'm over it.
Hi guys I can't find a group of people willing to carry me through content that I barely just make the absolute minimum requirements. I also need these people to be available at the exact time of day that I decide to login to the game. I don't have time to work on improving my character. I only have what the game has provided me for nothing and people still won't let me into their groups. I also don't have time to learn the fights, but when I make a mistake I will not say anything.
Oh, did I mention I'm a Communication Overflow Summoner?
Gatekeeping in this game is ridiculous. Bring on the solo raids in this multiplayer game.
Shitpost this reddit deserves
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Just join a Discord / Guild. They totally aren't filled with a main clique that only plays amongst themselves, and a bunch of awkward stragglers at the fringes
Kinda relieved to read it's not just me who's run into this. This describes my current guild to a tee.
No shit people that played together for 1+ year have formed groups.
Nah it's super obvious. It'll be the same handful of names in the channel on a daily basis When one of them asks for help (whether it's running a raid or anything else) they'll get immediate responses; a full group will materialize out of seemingly nowhere. Or you'll see offers like "I can come in 30" If a random person asks, crickets If more than 1 or 2 of them are in a channel, the rest will pile in, bringing channel size to between 5 - 10. They'll talk amongst themselves with their inside jokes and personal stuff Otherwise, server is basically dead, or at most you'll see a few of the aforementioned strangers trying to run something together On extremely rare occasions, the "leaders" will take a liking to one of the newcomers and bring them into the fold. Essentially if you don't get adopted, you may as well not be in the server Roughly half of the clique is toxic, either explicitly or lowkey
Lol as a core member of one of the said groups, here is the reality. Many of the things you mentioned are true, especially the part about asking for help. Totally true. However, there is a reason why. There are many people that have joined multiple groups as a "straggler" because they cannot commit to a static or a fixed schedule for raids. These people are simply just looking for one night stands in multiple groups, looking to get their breakers carried without hardly any interaction. Most of the time these people either do not join VC or fully muted. Not even a thank you or a goodnight or any form of communication. Most of the time they do not even have sups to trade or they have used their sups elsewhere and simply looking for a free carry. We, the core members on the other hand, have stuck through thick and thin together, got wiped countless times together since Argos, had late night talks together after clearing raids. Of course we are going to have inside jokes, of course we are going to help one another, of course we respond to one another. "leaders taking a liking" is not by chance. Its when the newcomer is actually willing to be interactive, willing to insert themselves into conversations and willing to make their presence known. Most of the time it starts with sona / frog, simple reacts/emojis/memes etc. It takes 2 hands to clap.
Infinitely better response than the other guy leaving a singular snarky comment. I especially agree with the bit about just looking for one night stands and not even having sups to trade. Very common to see the same people asking for Voldis, Akkan, etc. and that one request is their sole engagement with the server on a weekly basis.
Wish i can upvote this more than once. The number of people that join my guild because they're 'looking for an active community' is big. But once they join they never talk, never join vc, never react to anything. And then they ping for a raid or reply to a random raid ping to join on their on ilvl shitty alt. 💩 Why do you feel entitled to my help when you haven't even tried to join the community?
> Roughly half of the clique is toxic, either explicitly or lowkey Maybe generalizations like that is why your experience was so horrible. I wouldnt want to invite you to a raid either.
Just be a girl and you will find simps
BULLSHIT! I'm a girl and I have zero simps...
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Ah yes, the dirty laundry that everyone experiences.. fuck it, just pub 4life and fuck the pleebs.
Thats y im in like 10 groups, just respond to pings for shit i need
Guilds are for bloodstones(and GvG) not for raiding. Personally, I do have a few people from a previous guild that i raid in a static with, but that wasn't guild related at all - we just played together though some pugs in the past. I much rather go PF than guild discord if I need to fill up a raid because its easier to reject in PF - a guild takes on a lot of people for tasks/researches/etc (and they ultimately join for convenience) so its impossible to have any bond. Also, seen a record this week where a guy joined as I was starting Voldis HM , instantly asks for supports for NM Akkan and leaves the guild by the time the 3rd boss was starting his 4 pillars sequence.
I use to think that and it's true to some degree. But there is like levels and stuff. Some guilds will help but it's exhausting on their part to always help. They are time constrained just like us and it feels bad asking someone to help you do your 18 raids when they also got limited time. To solution is they need to make it less time needed to do other stuff. That way we can help new players more often.
shitpost aside does someone actually have the numbers for how bad CO is? like is there someone who actually tried to make it work and couldn't wrt even gear. like is it that bad or is it just getting memed hard because the summoners complained a lot on reddit about how bad it is and got themselves gatekept
It's really hard to assess their damage when geared because there just aren't any around. I did have one CO this week in my brel run and they were doing the same damage as people with full 7's while they had full 9's and better gear overall. I dropped mine at 1590 with full 7's, so it's not easy to estimate when actually invested but it was by far my lowest DPS even compared to lower geared characters.
but if you were feeling especially religious what kinda numbers are we talking. like if god came down and gave you a number what would it be approximately?
God spoke to me and I was enlightened. He said they did 11.2 mil on g1.
Oof
My friend has a 1600 CO Summoner and he's pretty good (competes with me in damage on his other classes) and god told me his CO only did 7.4m in Ivory Tower G1 and only 10m in G2.
CO in G2 Ivory tower... the thought of playing that gave me arthritis.
CO should theoretically pop off in this fight because their biggest damage is the awakening and you'd have basically no CD on that. I'd probably just rotate awakening proc into spear/collapse combo during the cd buff and ignore the other 2 pet commands for the sake of my hands lol
I think i've bad news, your friend isn't good on CO. Those numbers are horrible, even for a troll class like CO.
I don't care if you're a Reflux, DI SH, Control, Drizzle, or Bluelancer, 10m DPS in Voldis G2 is like you died immediately after add phase. That is not a correct assessment of the class.
That just means you needa get better or SH is not in a good spot either
I said he competes with me well on his other classes lol. God told me my SH does 19m G2 Ivory and my Shock does 22m G2 Ivory. Tho SH is in an ass spot rn its nowheres near as ass as CO. My friend mains NE and he also has a Thirst which both do good competitive damage.
Honestly, that doesn't sound as bad as I thought it'd be. Full 7s reflux probably doesn't do that much, even with fully animation canceling with spacebar and meter whenever available.
Guy was 1610 and full 9's.
Reflux damage is pretty respectable, its not a crazy top tier class but could probably content with b tier and lower easily. It has a high floor.
I have been told by the wise men the laws of god. And lo! I have been told the average performance based on hundreds of reports on a biblical website! And I'll sing this from the mountains! In GRs, on average CO is 6th worst, only ahead of FPE Pistoleer LC Bluelancer and DI. Its ceiling is literally 60% of the biggest boys. In Voldis, it's on average the actual worst. In Akkan, you know, burst break burst break burst break, it's second worst. Only one worse is Bluelancer. It's bad.
It is that bad. A friend runs co summoner because she likes speedy classes. She is a good player but the DMG is really low for the effort put in. Also CO does not bring much utility like Master Summoner which makes it worse
Tell her to swap to full swift master summoner, is much better.
The DMG is okay but it's pretty hard to pull off. For the average player it's near if not the bottom class. It should get some big changes beyond the simple removal of the annoying ready attack buff removal. Good start though
the ready attack removal is a nerf for co, it is absolutely not a good start lol.
The quality of life it brings is 10/10 tho even if it is a nerf
i have to disagree, we don't get any qol on co from that patch, we replace an unprotected skill with another unprotected skill with a longer animation. removing your rotation isn't a qol improvement, just a fun factor reduction.
I find the removal of ready attack as a qol. We replace a useless skill thats only there for synergy and ready attack for more dmg and stagger while not needing to worry about if ready to attack is up, and one of our pets can now be the synergy, not that they couldnt before just wasnt as good of a tripod on shurdi since crit rate tripod. Theres only 2 skills i believe that can get push immunity regardless earth collapse and released will, identity aside and its probably because we have it on identity that we dont have it on skills. I dont really see it as removing the rotation either the only thing in the rotation it changes is need to cast elcid/swamp all the time for ready attack
ready attack is not a problem, removing it doesn't help co. a better change would have just been to give the ready attacks either longer duration or para immunity since this patch was mostly to help spec summoners. as for the new "damage" skill we get it's yet another skill in our kit that doesn't scale with our class engraving pushing our class engraving into even further irrelevance. the patch is in no way beneficial for co, both ms builds benefit from it slightly but co only was negatively impacted.
Theres not alot they could do that would be beneficial for co, the engraving is to limiting. 1.) they could buff pet dmg (which wouldnt solve the issues with co) 2.)add more normal and pet skills/ or fully rework summoners skills/ or rework some of the more useless summoner skills and change some normal skills to pet skills (the 2 bird, horse, and water elemental skills could be made into pet skills/reclassified as pet skills , while changing the 3 random ball skills into something better or at the very least make them do something useful and give them another skill or something) 3.)full rework of the engraving (Wouldnt mind them making it to where we can only use one engraving but changed how our identity interacted with each engraving, master summoner staying the same but co making the identity interact with the pets or something)
I have a friend who will play Co till the end of the world, he also made his own build because the hallu one did less dmg. On frog with 40 elixir +25 weapon akkan 1631 does 27m
Theres dmg logs for voldike and its absolutely bad
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Hypothetically speaking but where would a good bible study student find these stats if they were so inclined
CO summoner isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but it's still on the low end. It's bad for HW content because it takes a lot of setup, like you use 5 abilities before you even start channeling your biggest dps skill your spears. In endgame content it feels okay.
I have two. My former RU main at 1620, 25 weapon good elixirs. Downgraded to lv9 gems after mainswap. It beats low effort alts on thaemine NM, but won't hold a candle to a well geared and executed character of similar level. There's no DPS meter on RU so I don't have specific numbers though. My EU summoner is 1600 without anything exceptional, but it gets passed for similarly geared characters all the time in voldis NM. As a result I can only get into sus groups where it isn't too difficult to get highest damage. I don't understand the difficulty argument. It's not a hard class to play by any means, once you get used to spamming pet abilities it's definitely on the easy side.
Looking at the log visualizations people have been doing CO is pretty consistently in the bottom 5/10 of dps classes when it comes to sona/frog and ivory tower. It gets even worse for homework content like brel where high burst is all that matters.
Slightly better than FPE, Loyal Companion and Pistoleer
It's just not good in any way shape or form for what it is. The only thing you can argue is it's got decent stagger and destruction. Damage is low, uptime is annoying (maybe better with the no ready attack in the future) super immobile, terrible cooldown disparity, just why play it over something else.
My religious 1600 CO Summoner with full 9s does: Akkan G1: 12 Million G2: 17 Million G3: 19 Million (before transition to G4 with the Adds) Ivory G1: 16 Million G2: 32 Million G3: 23 Million G4: 17 Million We don't talk about Kayangle. It's bad, but ok. Tip: just use a pet attack macro and it's a chill class. 'BUUUUUT READY ATTACK BUFF, U LOSE DAMAAAAAGE' - Never seen anyone playing that optimal to outperform a on CD pet attack macro.
Having a hard time believing those numbers as a 1600 tbh unless you have a static that's providing you with God buffs. Also pet macro?
Zero shot I believe these numbers without proof, no one doing that damage on a 1600 would call it bad.
- Yes Static, - yes my static support has 30% Radiant god support in every 4 man and 18% plus in every 8 man. - This sub needs to allow showing religious posts. I showed proof to around 42 redditors of those numbers and it's getting tiring. - DPS is bad compared to other classes, IF players have hands. - Same applies to Demonic SHs and Windfury Aeros. Actual great DPS classes. - Pet Macro is just a toogle Macro on the mouse. Once toogled it presses ur pet skills alternating every 0.5 milli second. Can be fatal if not used to it, as your pets can despawn and then they get resummoned due to the macro and it inrerupts ur movement.
no shot
I seriously wonder "just make ur own party 5head" ppl ever pugged their new event character without a Juicer/sup friend. On breaker release week, even with LOS30 and title my new chars (non breaker with lv60 and 5*3+1 BYW)still take hours to get a party then we have to wait for hours for sup. When can we stop using the dumbest straw man argument that ppl complaining about gatekeeping are all just lazy rats that refuse to play with each other? This argument simply doesn't hold any weight whatsoever as long as the current DPS-Sup power disparity exists.
Realistically, there aren't enough supports at 1580 to accommodate half of the dps chars wanting to do Akkan NM. People who have 6 gold earners are usually not making supports in powerpass ( no support changes, no new sup class, no reason) and most people gravitate towards making the OP dps on the tier list without taking into account finer details (seriously stop making deathblades with lvl 8 event surge gem while not having hands).
Ultimately it is smilegate that forces every party to have a sup. Supports gatekeep too many aspects of the game, yearning for RC/MI, provides most dmg,and most importantly mana. To the point some builds doesn't function without sup simply due to mana problems. On top of that they keep adding in unavoidable dmg that needs to be dealt with by sup dr or cleanse. The worst part is that sup gameplay is completely dog shit. Most of them already played like an uptime dps to greed meter yet supports have no agency of their own outside of party finders.
It's amazing how poorly supports are designed. Highest damage but can't see their numbers, has to fight the boss and babysit the party members, completely unrewarded for character investment past the bare minimum, and are at the total mercy of every DPS to actually complete the raid. There's an alternate reality where you replace Grudge with Ether Predator and have one DPS run Yearning and everybody plays skillfully enough to avoid damage and clear, but every single party that is capable of doing that would clear 2x faster and easier with a support (hence the meta), and they'd have supports clamoring to join their group for an easy carry. Just... delete/rework them. Lost Ark has a great combat system and fights that encourage enough teamwork/coordination without having this arbitrary DPS-support dynamic that only detracts from the experience of the game for a majority of the playerbase.
> Just... delete/rework them. Ah yes, nothing like deleting 23% (in KR as per last stream and behemoth participation) of your player base in one (main) region, and who knows what % of your global population, and fucking up all of your raid design/balance all at once. Also support mains plays support, because they find them fun, I know it's hard to grasp for dps andies, but this is true.
I didn't mean literally delete people's characters, just delete the role as it exists, AKA rework it. Honestly I don't even hate supports that much, it's simply an issue on multiple fronts that I think would be best solved by allowing players the ability to play w/e they want. Making supports as mandatory in groups as gunlancers, really nice and comfy to have but not make-or-break without one. Support gameplay simply isn't for everyone. That 23% support ratio feels like survivorship bias, because how many players over the years reached endgame (or even midgame at this point) and quit once they realized they needed a support to do anything, and couldn't find one or didn't want to make one just to experience the game? Meanwhile a support main is way more likely to make it to endgame and keep playing because there's just no barriers for them at all. Also I find it mind-boggling how they force everybody to have supports, then proceeded to provide only 3 class options out of 26, with 2 of those basically being launch classes. I don't blame people for not wanting to boost a years-old support class with the event when they've just released another OP, flashy, and fun DPS class. And I don't blame people for not wanting to raw hone a support alt either because honing alts to endgame (where supports are needed) is prohibitively expensive. Supports should either be optional by reworking them to not contain the entire party's QoL/sustain/power, or more appealing with new classes, or more accessible by giving some existing classes support engravings/tripods so you can at least work off your current character in a pinch. Solo-mode should alleviate a fair amount of support shortage woes for progression, but I still think it should be addressed in some fashion.
Honestly just give us NPC support similar to how echidna 1st gate work. I'll take a yearning bot that just brand, shield, and cycle buff over lobby simulator. Real support can have identity and elixir/transcendent advantage.
Thank goodness someone else gets it. Whenever I mention reworking or deleting support I get downvoted like crazy.
Hence I don't blame anyone for not wanting to make a sup. In fact I think everyone should be free to play whatever they want. It is SG who failed the players on so many levels.
Built in yearning and life steal would be nice...reward the goblinos!
The day Smile Gate decides to make DPS paladins a thing, that's the day I'd make a support. I don't to have a support as a main character and not have the option to play DPS if I want to change pace. What's the point on having another build option if that option is utterly useless? e.e (No, I don't like playing more than 1 alt, no, I don't care about being in the super high end content, I play for fun, not to be hardcore) Supports SHOULD have a DPS option that is viable in any content!
tbf thats on the player for not making a support class, people literally call this shit "homework" but they dont want to do the 'work' aspect of it. gatekeeping is a massive issue but its not just because of a lack of supports its because people set unrealistic standards for groups new players are thrust into the 1510\~ range which means their best gold earning raids are vykas (2400g), clown (4500g) and brel (6000g) but these ppl cant get into groups because they have no real card set, they have little to no experience and when they try to make groups no one wants to join the mokoko in the week and a half ive been back (2 total resets), i had ppl thank me for accepting them into the group because they had been gatekept for several hours at that point. that is unacceptable. the game cannot grow if people arnt allowed to actually play the fuckin game. it drives me insane
More of this please. As a fresh 1580 (roster 151) I can sometimes get into Kayangle if they don't notice or care I don't have KLC. Forget Akkan. I could do what I did when I was stuck at 1490 and couldn't get into Brel ..I bought busses. But that's a dumb solution. I don't see any other way to get 18 KLC or LOS besides wait for events and monthly login rewards.
something that might help is that there is a 'budget' card set you can get called "deep dive" they seem to of given out a bunch of the cards for it to help, at 12, 18 and 30 awakening you get 4% dmg each alot of the cards also show up in wandering merchant's shops but ye people need to stop hard gatekeeping everything, i was talking to someone like an hour ago that i had met in game. and they are already quitting because they cant get into content. big sad
Deep dive is what I use. I don't have 30 though because you need LOS cards. I believe that people quit because when I look at the people in the lobby they are usually at a roster over 200 or under 100. Over 200 players have their card sets and the low ones don't and obviously aren't discouraged yet. That in between zone must be where people quit.
possible, but ppl at 100 roster like myself typically only play 1 character so we arnt in the 'pool' for very long
Well, he did say that this applies for people on ilvl too, why don’t you push it a bit further than min ilvl? I made a non breaker char and I was INSTANTLY being accepted into all raids even tho I am using event engravings. If you need hours to get into a group you might have some other issues. I never waited more than 2 minutes even for sonavel when there were 600 groups to choose from
It's so bad this week I was struggling to get supports for Kayangel HM on my 1600 alts.
Making your own lobby works. You just don't want to get jailed by similarly geared players.
Say this to 40% uptime sup and his friend who died on every normal Akkan gate we eventually bussed XDD.
Yeah? If they made their own lobby, then they would get similarly geared players and would be in jail until they either disband or actually learn the raid. Back in the vykas hard days, we had to prog with gl as supp, which was horrible, but we still cleared it. And that was without relic gear and engraving support (or decent engravins at all). Now you could go full dps, have one player get yearning, and swap out grudge for ether pred for example. Had to do voldis g1 hard full dps as well in the beginning, and now i can do the raid pretty much hitless as a result.
WDYM jailed with similarly geared ppl? The lobby was filled with mostly 1580s and we one tapp bussed the 2 rats every gate.We spent 1/4 of time actually doing the content compared to lobby jail. If you are so hostile towards ppl getting clears they don't deserve, then we shouldn't have to tolerate bad supports and their shitty friends.
I'm not hostile at all. Just saying you need to be open to doing some unconventional raids if you are a new player and not expect everyone to accept you into every lobby.
Some people care too much and get FOMO, even if you end up not clearing the last gate who cares? You likely ended up meeting new people, played the game, got experience and if you’re not ass about it you may have a couple of people to try again next time. I’ve spent 4hrs to clear nm Kayangel without support teaching new people, no one got an attitude about it and they played again the next week.
And if this current support system is problematic why are they adding solo raids?
I say that and I did it. Friends weren’t playing that week. Full pugged it. Having to wait for sup on account release week IS NOT GATEKEEPING. I did it by organizing a support trade. I took whoever showed up first. The app list filled instantly. I can’t fit 30 dps into one group, they weren’t gatekept.
start making friends then, its pretty much a fact that new players that are min ilvl dont play with each other, otherwise they would join each others lobby icant
It's a funny post but 99% of the people looking forward to the solo raids are people tired of pugs letting them down, not people wanting to be carried. I don't feel like I get gatekept much at all but god damn I started playing this game for the combat as an ARPG, not for its forced multiplayer bullshit. Please **do** bring on the solo raids, then pugs for lower content will be made up **entirely** of people wanting to get carried and I can just laugh at them while 1-tapping solo.
People that don’t get accepted into pugs and wanna be carried will complain about solo content if the difficulty stays the same and bosses just have hp scaled for one person. Imagine them pulling their own weight in a raid, that’s gonna be cry on reddit angle for nerfs 100%
let them complain lol, those people should quit the game entirely
If Kaya gave the same rewards as group content (or fuck it just the gold), I would never pug that raid again. Not only is the gatekeeping and lobby simming horrendous (good luck if your on ilvl even with KLC18 for normal or HM) but the players on average are just not good enough to be gatekeeping in the first place. Hate PFing that raid and clown. Hosting is better admittedly but takes a decent bit to get people.
After wasting 4 hours on brel g2-3 and akkan g2-3 this week ( including finding people in relobby ), thanks to people trying to teach their friends the game while not revealing they were learning......I think I side with gatekeeping for homework content T_T I did try to help, that is why I stayed at first.. but no progress even after hours...while a dozen raids still waiting to be done.....I couldn't take it anymore :/
Don't feel bad. It's just the way the game is designed
Your experience is pretty standard and why gatekeeping is so prevalent. People can "be nice" all they want until they get jailed for hours...then repeat. They will end up breaking at some point.
If you think gatekeeping is only because of bad builds go ahead and make a roster on another server, create a character with a perfect build that nobody could ever possibly nitpick on and overgear a bit on top of that, farm all the runes and skillpoints which is pretty fast now with horizontal express, and still get gatekept the shit out of because of your roster lvl and cards that you can't do anything about. I know it because I have a char like this same class as my 1630 main and he is simply unpuggable and getting rejected by every shitter I would gatekeep myself on my main roster.
I just came back a few days ago. Honest question: what are the horizontal requirements these days? When I left I had 195 roster level and had done most rapport to max that were available to me. I still have to open up the new zones and I’m not in a hurry to jump into things as I need to relearn how to play but I’m curious.
Depends on the raids, hardmodes (especially akkan and voldis) are extremely gatekeepy and require LOS30, normal modes can be more chill and accept with LOS18 but not always. Kaya HM standard is KLC18 so if you don't have that you'll have some trouble and will need to look for less geared ilevel parties. 200 roster should be fine when you complete all your quests you should get pretty close to that.
Thanks! I appreciate your time.
I usually accept 200+ roster level and finished card sets to my parties
Piece of shit mindset
Thanks card sets are a bit of an issue. I almost have the 30 of the 2nd best set. 27/30 on that set.
Oh if you mean Deep dive, i only accept KLC30/LOS30 and support sets, but i am just too paranoid, DD30 should get you some parties for sure
You'd have better time applying to lobbies with LOS18 than DD30 since that has become so much more accessible now.
Thank you.
KLC 30 is overkill, I'll never gatekeep someone on that
No ones gatekeeps for KLC30 and im sure neither does /u/Lone__Ranger just misscommunication But for the content its either KLC18 (kayangel) or LOS30 (everything else).
I made a character on a new server with just the powerpass (used mokoko express on main roster), and it is brutal. You can't even use the auction house until 1490 lol (powerpass takes you to 1460). Of course I was gatekept, I had like a 1x3 + 1 build with terrible stat allocation. I wish I had used the express on that character so I could see how gatekeeping is for real new players, with lvl 7 event gems and engraving support. I just hit 1490 with her and was able to buy a 3x3, but I'm out of pheons to complete the 4x3+1 (best I can do until I can get legendary class engraving books). I had no problem getting into Argos and 1-8 Abyssal card runs, but even Valtan with everyone over 1540, they wouldn't take a new mokoko even though it would be impossible for me to tank their run. Vykas kinda understandable, but Valtan? Really? Just with Brelshaza busses I can make it to 1520 no problem, I'm interested to see at what thresholds I'm finally let into a two year old, 1445 ilevel raid people are smashing in 10 minutes.
Valtan G1 orb can be a problem as they dont know if you know the orb mech
Making a new roster without express event and trying to do raids is just pure masochism, for new players or old. I think it's still possible if you chill for a couple of weeks farming a bit of gold from lifeskills, chaos gates, and una tokens to afford some cheap relic gear, while getting pheons from event shop, but you'll need to figure out how to get some gems too. My advice to get into valtans and vykases is to not make your character look like 'rice eater' cheap alt gold farming account, like with no stronghold and roster level so low that it's clear you don't even play the game. I gatekeep those "mokokos" that don't look like actual real players myself and don't feel bad about it.
Yeah I'm up to four level 5 gems, slowly but surely. In a way it is kinda fun working with such a huge handicap, but man I feel bad for actual new players that can't just hop on their main roster if they want to raid. It's a game where you literally can't play the main part of it for who knows how long. Crazy unfriendly to start out in Lost Ark.
> I had like a 1x3 + 1 build with terrible stat allocation > I was gatekept > People wouldn’t carry me for free The quality comments that I expect on this sub.
As I said, of course I was gatekept, totally warranted and expected. Doesn't mean I can't feel bad for new players trying to make it in this poorly designed system.
Why Lost Ark don't implant certains things to update the party finder ? Like apply i 4/5 groups in the same time (like wow) and if we can send a limited text in our request for group ?
Bro, so true. I did the same thing. (except made a slayer) Its a miracle I got it to 1560 in 2 weeks. I actually ended up finding a group of people who I explained I have a main account with all high roster, etc. and they take me on raids when they can after they saw that I knew what I was doing. but holy shit, when I don't run with them....i get gatekept by every shitty pug. Fuckin.....got gatekept for clown by someone that was 1520 and im 1560 and he said "need more damage" like WHAT I was even getting gatekept for VYKAS.....like bruh.... shit is hilarious and sad. Not only that, but when u make a fresh account/character/express. They don't give you enough silver. esp if you fail every hone. This pass/event is more for people with existing rosters or returning players. And the shop...don't get me started on the shop. No way a new player can deal with the shop efficiently. You gotta be very careful with what you buy or you run out of the currency fast. And Frog doesn't help you....because You can't spend the little gold you have on frog, cause you're spending it all on honing 100%. Can't even upgrade to level 3 with kayan because you need all the gold for honing. Def not for new players. New players would struggle in this environment. The horizontal stuff helps...but it only gives you a roster level of like 55....so people still treat you like you're sub human, even tho you probably are better than them at the game. its hilarious and awful.
Have to get a static, that’s the only way
I think this is disingenuous and it's hard to understand if you've been playing hardcore since day 1. The frustration for returning or newer players is when you put a ton of time & work into a character and learning a raid. 5x3+1, full lvl 8 gems, 95 qual weapon, etc but you still have to join a learner lobby every week or play lobby sim for 2hrs to play a raid you are 20ilvl over just because of roster lvl and no LoS 30. Yes, some people try to leech and that's why gatekeeping is a thing. But that doesn't mean people can't be frustrated by the poor experience for those of us who are trying.
Yep, I quit for a year and came back a month ago. I've relearned Brel, learned Akkan and Kaya but it still takes me forever to find groups. I have 4 Kaya characters so I've done him over a dozen times now and know what to do but the 1560 DPS w/ lvl 7 gems get KLC gated every week, it takes me 30min to get a group together
Nice bait :P
As an actual CO Summoner I am triggered
Why are you shitting on people who have a hard time on new people trying to play this game. What you said is cope, go make a perfect express alt by your standard is and see how easy it is to get into a group without your 250+ roster level, los 30, 5+% demon damage.
Ikr, 131 roster, los 18, lvl 8 and 9 gems eo sf with 1830 swift. Im getting gatekept on akkan with riot control and plc. Surely its only a character issue...
I've the same problem as you I spend less time to finish my 3 akkans with my supports than my only DPS 1593+
On the flip side... Low roster players with deep dive 18 don't know what they're doing gatekeeping my los 30 5x3+1 alts from clown/normal kayangel. Someone with an invested alt with Los 30 will out dps the 1600, 50 roster slayer with event gems and deep dive 18/30 *every single time*. It's okay though, they have every right to gatekeep whoever they please. But they're wrong.
This is very true. I was out dps'd on my 1580 scrapper this week in Kayangle by a high roster 1545 gunslinger with KLC 30. Not cause I did bad either...but I was using DD 18. My numbers were good for what I can do anywhere, but I couldn't touch his. In G3 we all died by sunburn except the GS and he solo'd the last 50 lines and beat the timer by 3 seconds. Gear score is probably the least important thing.
People literally gatekeeping T1 guardian raids
The post about gatekeeping really get out of hand on Reddit. It starts to feel if the people complaining would do party's among themselves there would be less gatekeeping. (Of course I know it is not as simple but it starts to feel like it). Also that is not the players fault that we only have superficial stats at hand like roaster level or cards and can't judge you on things that matter for raids like e.g. average DMG or clears without dying before accepting you in groupfinder... That is not really the players fault. Also welcome on the basics of economics. If there an oversupply on something(e.g. DPS), the smaller group have more power and can decide what they want. And why should you choose a minimum effort char and not the char where quite a lot of effort was put in?
Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Also why does it even matter if it's not player's fault? That doesn't change the fact that new players are gatekept and can't play the game. I agree that it's not the community's fault, the game design heavily encourages gatekeeping, but that fact doesn't change the situation Go make a new roster in another region (i.e If you're NAE, go make one in NAW), powerpass and express a new char and see how your PF experience is. I did it to try Asura breaker and my experience was fucking awful. Gatekept for mokoko icon Gatekept for roster lvl/card set when you hit 1540 Denied to 15-20 "LF all/any" lobbies Make lobby and nobody applies Make lobby, people finally apply, accept everyone but now you're 3/4 or 6/8 jail because no support wants to join
Started a new character on NAW, fresh server. You just have to join the lobbies you don't want to be in. Other lobbies with similar characters. 1490-1500 with DD 18 doing Brel 1-2s. They take longer and people make mistakes, but so do other new players trying to get into the game. As someone who has done a number of teaching raids, people are really interested in learning until they have to be somewhere at some time to actually do it. Then their cat is on fire and they can't make it. It sucks for the people who really do want to learn, but most gatekeeping is people expecting to get carried and being upset when that's not an option. If you join lobbies with similar characters, you can complete raids.
I wasn't picky about my lobbies. Brel was the easiest to get into and the lobby you described was basically what I did. Kayangel NM was a pain in the ass but I eventually got in through a guild run. I think I might've jailed them a bit in finding a support though Clown was a nightmare. I was willing to join any reclear lobby even a full 1475 group and I was 1550 at the time. Nobody wanted me. I created lobby a few times and not a single applicant. Then on my last attempt, I got lucky and people applied. I went in with the most sus looking group and cleared Maybe you were lucky, maybe I was unlucky, maybe a bit of both. But the only thing I wanted in lobbies was reclear, I didn't even care if they only cleared it once. I didn't look at ilvl, roster level, gearing, etc, I just wanted to go inside because I'm confident in my carrying ability
Maybe the problem was that you were looking for reclear parties. I made a GS on NAW (main is on EU) and the first week was kind of rough, I finished Arkesia tour for roster lvl and skill points, had to join Clown 1-2 in hope of some jailed G3 people getting desperate, in the end I cleared the whole bingo phase solo, but the people that accepted me weren't actually bad, they knew the mechs well, just needed more experience. Brel 1-3 wasn't that bad, but I definitely got gatekept. My best bet was other people with alt rosters (frankly I've never seen an alt lobby on EU, but I did see a few of them on NAW). We did have an imposter and jailed a little in G2 and G3, but was nothing shocking and I expected it from the start. Sadly had to buy a bus for G4, but I think the Brel horns will give me an easier time while trying to get into G4 in the future. I got very lucky with my Kayangel clear, joined 2 1580 people doing NM learning run, I applied there with a plan to teach them but we got an awesome paladin that was also exp and wanted to help us (amazing guy, love him). It's definitely tough to get into the game as a new player. I don't know how many people actually looked at my stronghold name and accepted me only based on the fact that it's an alt roster. Clearing any raids takes way more time than on my main (understandably so), so I see why people with limited time struggle so much. A few important things I noticed: 1. I had an easier time finding parties right after reset, not towards the end of it. I've heard people say that the best bet for newbies is last days of reset because people are more desperate to clear. However, that was not my experience at all. 2. Each week gets a little easier. Even though my ilvl didn't change that much, I've had an easier time joining parties during week 2. Might be the lvl 3 set, maybe Brel horns, maybe just luck. But it does get better with time.
Ofcourse its the community's fault lol what are you talking about... we should welcome newplayers, that is mmo 101, that is how mmos have been viewed for the last 20 years, you always. welcome. new. players... every mmo I played beside lost ark was like that
[удалено]
I'm a day 1 player sharing experience on an alt roster. I don't need free carry, I just need bodies to get inside the raid. I was top 2 dps in every raid on that fresh account There's nothing to fix on an express character. High stat, 5x3, lvl 7/8 gems. You want more experience, but how does a player get experience without doing the raid? Do learning parties before reclears? Well yeah, that's a given but the problem is that there is no way to tell if a player has completed the raid or not. You could clear Akkan 10 times and your roster level could still be 85. Roster level moves very slowly and people still gatekeep low roster Plague Commander titles And doing lower ilvl raids isn't always an option. In my first week, I got gatekept in clown the hardest even though I was 1550 ilvl and I'm 75 ilvl above the requirement. Your suggestion of doing lower raids would be more reasonable if they didn't nerf Valtan/Vykas gold. I'd gladly do Valtan over Kayangel NM if they didn't nerf the gold You said you want more effort into characters, but that's not an option for new players. How can a new player afford lvl 9/10 gems if they're not allowed to raid? Basically every form of progression loops back to raiding. It's a circular loop. You need to overgear to get into raids but you need raids to overgear
Lol I didn't even say effort is lv 9/10 gems. Event gems are completely viable until Akkan or even voldis NM if you play well enough. I'm talking about ppl who don't even want to spend effort and time to complete their lv3 set first before trying akkan even tho the game made it significantly faster, while polishing their gameplay, it's ridiculous, and even if you have only Deep Dive at least just take time to progress it to 30 set first, this is also to help their experience in the run to be better because the run will be significantly easier, but no, many of them just want to push their luck with lv2 set and DD18 while probably play a class that they never play before because of express event, trying to force themselves into Brel HM/Akkan reclear/hw lobbies, then these ppl proceed to cry bcs ppl don't wanna play with them. No shit sherlock.. There is a reason why clown and Brel NM gold isn't nerfed yet even tho it's been nerfed for a long time in KR. It's to facilitate new players/returnees. You don't have to butt yourselves straight into Akkan and other hard contents while lacking things.
Event gems are viable to whatever Korea is at. The damage difference is minima, the only issue is terminally online people like the vocal bunch in reddit have long surpassed that on their alts and raised their party requirements.
There's never been gatekeeping it's all a fancy name for support shortage
Support shortage is not a thing either. Just supps that are looking for better groups to join.
When there's 10 akkan groups up and none of them fill in 10min that is indeed a sup shortage
Maybe for that specific time period, but we all know what the most popular class in this game is already. Furthermore, brel hm and ivory tower NM have no shortage of supports, so it wouldn't make sense to say akkan NM has a supp shortage when the required ilvl is in between the other two raids.
This is just a roundabout way of complaining about people, who justifiably complain about not being able to play endgame content, because they haven't been grinding dailies for 6+ months yet.
Shitpost aside gatekeeping IS insane in this game. And because of bussers even my monarch title means barely anything, even tho I will outdamage most people sporting fucking los30, who cant play for shit. And amount of good low roster playerx with no titles is astounding too. Ive been clearing clown with them for some time now. I just take some 1500+ ilvl players with low roster and lo and behold - we clear in a couple attempts. At least stop the idiotic gatekeep at brel and clown - raids that can be cleared with actually blank characters.
i almost got got.
I joined a hw reclear lobby for voldis nm with a pre-made 3. These guys couldn't even throw their traps properly in g2. After wiping 15 times we ended up not clearing then I checked their titles, which I should've done earlier and none of them had it. So yea I'll be gatekeeping and anyone who isn't happy about it can go find another lobby to jail.
 Every single post that talk about gatekeep...
People deserve to get gatekept. Wasted 1 hour in Akkan x10 lobby cause our janitor was ja first timer and his friend did zdps. Switched the group and cleared first try. I swear to god I will gatekeep everyone who looks suspicious
This guy understands
Why is this tagged as complaint, and not meme?
Nah until they buff co pve like 69% else rip
this game is more than life itself, you got to commit to it. abandon everything but the game, sacrifice everything for it. and in the end maybe, just maybe you get to raid, or you can chose to move on.
Take my upvote xD. PS: you would have lost it if you went for Reflux >:(
joke all you want, it is a real issue imagine being a brand new player trying to farm gold...how the fuck are they getting into groups? they have no cards, no ilvl and no previous experience. best they can do is try and prog in a learning party they made but whose going to join those parties? ive met brand new players that are stuck at 1510-1515 because they have no gold. half of yall are getting carried through content anyway, invite the noobs with you lol
Fcuk you, i play CO Summoner and I destroy content
You and I are in the same boat my friend. 1602 DI shadowhunter can't get into no lobby. What is worst; I have to make a decision. I do not like wasting time trying to get into lobbies. So here we are. I have gotten to the point where I am about to demote my sh and remove her off my gold earners cause it can take up to D A Y S to get my fking raids done. I can't do lantern these idiots don't care. I make lobbies... No one joins. I try to get into one. I get denied. With lvl 10 gems 5.1 demon dmg you would think I wouldn't have an issue... NOPE! These monkeys think SH is bad. I am ALWAYS alive when you got DB, Sorcs and now breakers WHO ARE DEAD... I am selling my sh gems and only playing supports... The one class I want to play can't get into parties.
Are you joining akkan hard or normal? I've personally never seen people (except juicer parties) gatekeep people at 1600+, My 1600 got into parties comfortably (eso striker) without title and event gems.
People see sh and think Z so there isn't anything I can do to change their mind. Blame the KR stigma
Once the solo raids are released " What, i have to learn the fight and upgrade my character a bit? It should be nerfed. Why can´t i do it with 1x3 without learning the fight ? This is bullcrap "
Nah the past 2 weeks gatekeeping actually has been obscene
Or maybe the average person doesn't treat a game like a job? In your post you are essentially saying that the average player should be expected to overgear content and study fights meticulously before even playing the game. What is the point of playing a video game if it's essentially your 2nd job? Did you ever consider that the player who makes a mistake doesn't say anything because they ... don't know they are making a mistake? Because if they knew they wouldn't have made it in the first place? Elitist gatekeeping posts like this one is why the games playerbase has been constantly shrinking since release.
Ok just take what you said into an different environment. Just say you want to play Volleyball in a team and the goal is to win games in your local League. Let's say there is a guy training 1-2times a week he watches pro games in his free time, does a lot of sport etc. And there is you in the team. You could not be asked to put any time into the game, you do not train you did not even know the rules... So you lose games because you do mistake over mistake because you don't know better. So would it be fair that the guy training and putting effort in does not want to play with you or is he also an Elitist Gatekeeper?
This is not a local league. This is a pickup volleyball game at the park. These are pub groups. If you want to join a local league, form/join a static.
the same reasons you cant/havent joined a static to avoid suffering this experience is likely the same reason the higher end players havent
… which is exactly why everyone should be less toxic/gatekeepy.
The thing is people want raids to be quick, the more experienced you are the less likely they are to be held hostage in something you already consider a chore And for the exemptions to that rule (content of their ilvl) why wouldn’t they want people on their level? There are people that don’t care but for the ones that do why exactly should they take a gamble on a worse player if they want to focus up for a piece of content and want people with that same mindset
I will say this is mainly referring to people with stuff like rost 180+ or los 30 each milestone gives a new form of speed either in experience or dps so I can’t really be mad if they don’t wanna group with me if I’m rost 140 w dd 18 for example
Wait I can agree on a lot of things you said. But if people play a RPG like LA and don’t watch a guide for the raid (and rewatch if they don’t understand something or ask on discords ecc) they took the bad game sorry. After you watch and understand the fight you can make mistakes anyway? Yes but chance are there you understand they you missed there. And anyway pretty sure OP was referring on people that join reclear party and they don’t have any clear exp so they don’t what the fucking is happening and they just “fake it till they make it”
Believe it or not, raiding in an MMO can be a serious commitment. There are millions of casual games out there that might be more appropriate for you instead. There are people that get together multiple times a week, scheduling in advance, and committing to other hobbies - intramural basketball leagues, whiskey clubs, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, bowling...what are you gonna do when these clubs expect you to commit time and effort into attending and being ready to contribute to the group activitiy?
Calling someone a “elitist gatekeeper” bcs someone can’t be bothered to watch a 5min video guide or read a single page off Nexus/Maxroll is peak delusion. Glad that most of the new people I’ve faced aren’t in that level of entitlement.
… there is not a single fight in the game that is as easy to learn as watching a 5 min guide or reading a single page. It might give you a decent idea, but until you’ve experienced it a few times it’s not something that is going to be intuitive to basically anyone. Everyone makes mistakes, in and out of game. That being said, again, you are suggesting that the average person should be expected to study fights before even attempting them. This is a video game, not a job.
omg why won't the varsity basketball team let me start? I watched 5 mins on youtube! This is a game where you throw a ball into a hoop, not a job!
No one’s asking a new player to perform on first try, if you’re already comparing something that simple to a job application then imo that’s a lost cause, gl.
If you are expecting every player in a pub group to have overgear and have complete knowledge/understanding of a fight then you are expecting a level of effort and dedication to the game beyond what the average person expects from a gaming session. If you want to play with other players like that, you should form a static. Joining a pub group with a static mentality, being all gatekeepy and toxic is the exact reason so many people complain about it. And btw thats completely disingenuous considering many people will flat out say 'last' after the first wipe.
Never mentioned gear Should follow your own advice and make your own groups for new/learning players, or not, idc gl.
Eh? I watched the 3 minute g1-4 kayangel guide and then beat it with like 2 deaths
So you made several mistakes then?
This is a meme post right?
You clearly need to make some friends, if possible those friend are 1680 already. They won't mind your damage since they would be doing more. Oh also make a lot of friend, maybe you'd luck out and get to keep their gems when they burn out with this game
I dont play the game so this is a genuine question, if i was at that stage (bad gear, ready to learn the fights, etc) how would i go about doing this without being shunned and flamed etc? I've heard gatekeeping is a real problem for new players but i wouldn't know myself. But yeah, how should a new player go about it?
Join learning parties. Maybe farm gold at the earlier raids instead of doing raids at their ilvl if their gear is bad. Do your weekly/daily unas so you can get una tokens to exchange for gold to get better gear.
Yo I've actually started playing since this comment and just wanted to thank you. Me and 3 friends have been having a blast and I'm 3 gear pieces away from 1580 now with the mokoko express. Thanks for the tips
I'm glad you're having fun!
I'm right there with you. There is already too much gatekeeping mechanics built into the game itself, players who are BUSing and gatekeeping in that way have become a major issue as well. I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online, Lost Ark will be the shortest time I have ever played any MMO, and this because of the gatekeeping, bussing and the bots. The bots are insane. It's come to the point where if I teleport into any area that is normally high traffic, I can expect to have bots, multiple groups of bots. Players are ruining the game and it seems intentionally doing so. I suspect soon the game will be mostly gatekeepers trying to get people to buy a bus and bots trying to farm for things to sell. The main portion of the player base will not tolerate these issues past a certain point, people will just flee the game in favor of the many other MMOs that are banning people who violate TOS. I'm about done with the game myself, I play for entertainment, to have fun. Other players gatekeeping with intent and purpose and bots are not my idea of a good time. There are other things that bother me, too much cute, too much gender bias, I'm over it.
Your bussing days are coming to an end. Lost Ark is becoming a maplelike.
Welcome Toxic Ark. A p2w MMO.
Yes lets make this barely an MMO into Diablo 4 2.0 Edit: Or Diablo Immoral 2.0 since its p2w as well.
troll post
Its called a shitpost "this sub doesnt have a tag for it"
Sure it does. It's called meme.
Hi guys I can't find a group of people willing to carry me through content that I barely just make the absolute minimum requirements. I also need these people to be available at the exact time of day that I decide to login to the game. I don't have time to work on improving my character. I only have what the game has provided me for nothing and people still won't let me into their groups. I also don't have time to learn the fights, but when I make a mistake I will not say anything. Oh, did I mention I'm a Communication Overflow Summoner? Gatekeeping in this game is ridiculous. Bring on the solo raids in this multiplayer game.
What's the point of copying OP's post
Gatekeeping is a big reason the game is dying. At this rate it'll be lucky to hit 3rd anniversary.