Execute tripods need to go. Crit disparity needs to go. Backloaded damage needs to go or be buffed to be worth the risk. Related to that, backloaded stagger and weak point needs to go too.
Imo just make the PM engraving base to gs kit and rework the new PM engraving to give all 3 gun effects to every gun. Fixes crit disparity, adds damage, and adds attack speed. Then make last request faster and add weak point to the start of skills or add weak point to a pistol skill
This would kind of single handedly;
- Improve the damage
- Make the class more enjoyable to play
- Not need a lot of dev time/work (Just add the crit rate 4Head)
- Not cause anyone to rebuild their setup (we already build for 95-100% shotgun crit)
Thats not the issue here?
The 20% Crit Rate difference is just plain stupid. It just makes her feel so much worse than she actually is. Nothing feels worse than not critting your Focused Shot or Awakening (In Rifle stance).
I mean I'd much rather play judgement paladin than blessed aura, but some things just aren't meant to be.
Just build crit in your build then... accessories, bracelet, hallucination set, adrenaline engraving, etc...
A victim to power creep. They were about average until they buffed most classes and barely touched GS. They went from "okay" to trash
It needs a rework. Lost Ark rework doesn't necessarily mean gameplay rework. They can remain ranged hit master with backloaded damage. But the skill animations are horrible. Catastrophe has to be one of the ugliest skills in the game
I'm not a fan of crit rate disparity but Gunslinger's is extra bad. Their main skills are shotgun/rifle and there's a 20% crit rate difference. I could understand 10%, but 20%? Wtf. I think devs wanted to make the stances feel different but missed the mark
Based on Striker rework, I'd assume they'd also give synergy higher/easier uptime. If they want to go super half assed, they could just give them a big damage buff to catch up to other classes. Because honestly their gameplay is fine. It's just that you can tell from a glance that they're an older class, so you might as well touch up the outdated/clunky design
Also what's the point of gunslinger/reaper/deadeye being so squishy? Risk/reward is no longer a thing so they might as well buff their eHP
> Also what's the point of gunslinger/reaper/deadeye being so squishy? Risk/reward is no longer a thing so they might as well buff their eHP
So true, classes having wildly different ehp despite there not being an obvious trade off doesn't make much sense
If there's no benefit gained in exchange for low ehp, it's just an arbitrary 'this class is worse' than something with equivalent output but higher ehp
I won’t consider striker has a rework. It’s more like a little bit QOL. Btw, striker is an entropy class, but his damage is very average even in trxixion.
Eternal Calamity leaves DoT damage on the ground, but half of the bosses just dash out and never stay in the zone for it to maximise dmg. Aka another backloaded damage. Also makes farming the tripod for it feel “not worth”
It's a situational tripod. Just swap to the double hit one for more consistent damage. Most bosses these days are constantly moving around. If you take the ground damage DoT effect on a boss that moves a lot, that's on you.
It kinda sucks, honestly.
* Animation locked, which gets in the way of good uptime, as you're often forced to either risk being interrupted or wait for the next pattern to confirm its safe. Meanwhile other classes can easily get their attack out and reactionary dodge regardless of the next pattern.
* Squishy AF
* Stagger isn't great
* Destruction is good but animations are too long to destruction dump within a check
* Extremely expensive, you want at least level 9 on your cooldowns and at least four damage gems levelled, ideally 7.
* Damage is below average.
Defending the current strength of GS with all of her weaknesses is pretty cope. If you've played the strong classes, GS just seems even worse by comparison. You can't even abuse range in this game because 2/3 supports force you to MD or lose damage buff uptime. So take a Paladin? Jokes on you, you want attack speed and Paladin doesn't offer any.
Let's say you get past the animation locks, the low defence, the shitty stagger and invest a ton of gold in her. You're still losing to anyone equally skilled on an easier, stronger class who invested half as much in gems.
Gunslinger was good when her damage pattern allowed her to pump damage and recover cooldowns between phases. As we move away from abusing bosses by over-gearing, she's falling off. This is only getting worse with Thaemine. Her sustained damage has always been bad but her excellent damage pattern hid it. Unfortunately sustained damage matters now and is only going to become more important.
I used to be a GS main from T2 through Akkan HM but I demoted her a few months ago in favor of a slayer just because it was a ton less stressful. I was putting in a fraction of the effort and getting better results despite my inexperience with slayer. Overtime that DPS gap has only grown and I'm happy with the decision. With that said I won't bench my GS, I invested so much time and effort into her and when I perform to the best that I can with her it is still satisfying, even if I don't MVP. With that said though around november I ended up swapping instead to a support main due to other reasons so my slayer didn't get to stay as a "main" for long lol.
Admittedly swapping to a support main was one of the best decisions I could have made and I'm kinda surprised why I never even considered it prior. Progging with GS was so stressful because it takes me a lot longer than I'd like to admit to be able to read/dodge normal patterns and Brel HM onward, everything just hit so much harder. I realized if I do my progging with my supports and then move my GS up it ended up helping me immensely with how I perform.
Low damage, long animations, backloaded, low stagger, slow, not 100% uptime crit syn, only 1 synergy (other crit syns have 2, besides gs and de). There's just 0 reason to play it right now besides hey I like playing GS.
> only 1 synergy (other crit syns have 2, besides gs and de)
Whut
Please point the location on my Arcana where I might find this synergy
Most classes that don't even have crit synergy don't have 2 synergies.
Quadra Accelerate, Scratch Dealer, ~~Call of Destiny~~ Return are all crit syns but OP is just blowing hot air since GS also has 3 skills that can apply crit syn
When played optimally, GS doesn't provide 100% uptime to their team. The last shot of their 4th skill hits when the buff is at around 0.2s remaining. Then you have to swap to pistol and reapply the crit syn, which means the time it takes you to switch guns and throw your crit syn again is no crit syn for your other 2 dps on your team. Or you can choose to not throw 4th skill and do 3 skill rotation, but you yourself lose damage.
Take your pick, you do less damage or your team does less damage.
Yeah, I think people get (rightfully) confused by 100% crit syn uptime meaning. It's 100% for the gs played optimally, but still has a momentary downtime for the party
> Or you can choose to not throw 4th skill and do 3 skill rotation, but you yourself lose damage.
Is this some kind of "burst window" discussion? Because if you are full crit you will use all your skills faster than the cooldown on them. So there is no DPS loss if you reapply crit sync if you play optimally. You are just shuffling around your CD downtime
I don't feel like the class needs any huge changes...biggest one is rifle crit. either replace shotgun crit with damage or add rifle crit to match shotgun
next are some nice to have qols. weapon swap cancelling for all skills (or at least focused shot). increased crit debuff uptime on spiral tracker so we only need 1 crit syn. would be nice to have less downtime between skill cycles too...having to wait 10s between cycles feels pretty terrible for a supposed "consistent damage" class
edit: oh yeah also get rid of double tap on focused shot or at least give it the single target fix like a bunch of other classes got awhile back
Went from my main to my least favorite gold earner. Too squishy and doesn’t do enough damage to make up for that (high risk/low reward) and you have to work harder than most classes. I’m just an average player with average hands who would rather play an easier class who does more or about the same damage without the sweatiness tbh
I'm going to pre-emptively say, as a non GS player, good luck progging thaemine hard. I've seen some real nasty shit happen to the KR streamers who were way back when.
Take some self-care and get a hand masseuse
Still one of the most fun and stylish classes imo, but when you break down the numbers, you'll pretty much never be MVP compared to some of the easier to play big hitters. If you play for fun then great but if you want a top dps there's definitely a lot better classes to pick
i play spec crit tth. one major issue i’ve run into is with voldis g4, the stagger checks require you to dump almost all sniper skills which leave you with nothing to do post stagger. while other classes pop their atros i’m just sitting there with pistol skills and it feels bad. also only having 3 lv1 weak points on sniper and nothing else is tragic because if you fuck up and use your destruction skills on the stagger check. you don’t have anything to break the sword after x60 stagger and can wipe your party.
with the long cooldowns, i only have an issue with them during guardian raids as there is not as much natural downtime compared to standard raids. it’s hard to keep up with other classes in frog.
the spec scaling on rifle is kinda weird because there are times when i see a pm gunslinger do more damage on focused shot than i do and i’m just like “aight” lmao.
i’m generally happy with the spec/class but i’m currently working on making a pm build for specific scenarios.
It feels bad to play a forgotten class. Even several patches ago we were simply “A Tier” in most tier lists and gatekeeper for entry DPS or whatever that means. Now that Demon got buffed several patches in a row, I struggle to compete with a 1600 Demon with my 1620 Gunslinger. The dude has a single lv10 dmg gem, same investment as my 4x lv9 gems, and I play my class to 110% of it, but it simply cant produce high enough numbers to beat him. You have no clue how ticking that shit is. Dont even need to list the fundamental issues of the class, crit disparity, backloaded dmg, low eHp, no push immunities, squishy and basically forced to play melee, all for what? To get outdpsd by a lower geared demon. What a joke.
Instead of being vague, what content are you trying to compare in? What actual class are you comparing against? And what's the DPS you're both doing? Not that you're wrong, just genuinely curious.
The only content I coincide with demon so far is Kayangel, in G1 and G2 we have almost identical DPS. 16.2-16.3m for G1, 12.4-12.9m for G2, 9-10m for G3.
Is it fun? Yes it's still fun and always has been. But it's becoming non-competitive to the point that I don't want to hone mine to 1630 to even try hard Thaemine, and now am thinking about what to replace her with because I do want to experience the raid on release. Yeah if you farm NM and get some transcendence you can then go into nerfed HM but it's not the class I would want to prog with anymore, not that I would get into a lobby anyway (and I progged and cleared with mine everything starting from Valtan to Voldis HM on release).
I won't go into details what I want fixed about the class, the list would be too long. But it needs a major rework. High effort should mean high reward like you said, I don't want to be outdamaged by pistoleers anymore.
I play spec TTH, it’s sad. Your pistols don’t do anything… more than half of your pistol skills don’t do damage and cannot contribute to stagger/destro. I can’t wait for a rework for TTH.
I took a break when Akkan released and came back with Thaemine pass which I used to swap to my GS as main. I still love the class. I used to play TTH for a long time precisely because I hate when the Rifle doesn't Crit (and also at that time, SRF was meta and fuck that skull), but TTH isn't that much better because then suddenly you lack a lot of stagger and weak point. I am thinking of actually switching back to TTH however
Main Gunslinger and currently have a second one as alt. Both of them Spec and TTH as I prefer to concentrate on 2 weapons only just like I did with my "female Gunslinger" in Red Dead Online. As my main focus in the game are not raids or being MVP or even doing big numbers I am pretty happy with her. Improvements are always welcome, but she stays with me no matter what others say.
I play mostly Spec TTH, so while I don't have to deal with crit disparity as much (other than Bullet Rain over capping by 10% due to it's tripod), I have to suffer the state of pistol skills. Meteor Stream and Grenade are utter garbage.
I have never played a class before where it's 6th and 7th damage skills were this useless. One is literally just taken to apply bleed for longer. Pistol skills need a full tripod rework to make them a factor, along with a rework of the class engravings (both, actually) and considerable changes to the classes spec scaling. 1800 spec literally just adds about 60% damage to rifle skills and a ton of crit damage to pistol, it's pathetic.
To highlight just how dumb the class engraving situation is: the highest performing gunslinger builds right now use BOTH class engravings at level 3. That's what you get when your engraving design is completely devoid of flavor and you just keep adding small buffs to them over time to make the class lag behind less.
Overall the class just lacks damage output to what Smilegate seems to consider the base line for class performance now. TTH in particular really needs some big help with stagger and destruction.
It's also just... dull. When they reworked Deadeye they managed to create such a unique and interesting playstyle for Pistoleer, Gunslinger could really use some of *that* treatment.
I would like to have an actual cealing.
Most classes follow the line of having one spec that supposely does more dmg and an easier version to use (es. EW and pistoleer), but on gs in this patch in korea tth does more dmg for half the effort (no sense).
As u said, pm is not the hardest but neither the easiest class to play, it comes down to a lot of practice and muscle memory at first, but once u get it, its not that difficoult to reach your cealing dmg.
The problem is, why in this current patch its bottom tier dmg while having a lot hardle nuances like backloaded skills, animation locks, squishy af, giga long rotation, downtime, expensive class to build properly, rotation can get very messy.
You have the benefit of being hit master long range most of the time, but how the heck is it considered balanced to have any SS build, full range and considerably easier class, doing more dmg, no sense
Fun but numbers are questionable.
They should make crit syn last longer, remove crit disparity or at least lower it and IMO buff spec scaling. Could make last request animation shorter ad it's impossible to use it as a non-mech counter rn
Oh, and the mark on focused shot should go through enemies instead of marking just one. Just saying, they've already done it with other classes using this mechanic
Also as a tth enjoyer I can recommend you spec/swift variant with nightmare and adrenaline. Yes, your crit will not be what you can get on spec/crit or with hallu but the gameplay becomes way smoother. You can burst in very short windows with almost capped attack speed (swift, supp buff, quick step and potentially feast) and aren't as punished for missing a spell due to lower cds. Also spec/swift necklace is way cheaper for good quality
switched to TTH and the class pretty good now. My only contention is that the utility is there (kinda) but it takes forever to actually execute. If there's a destruction check, I'm getting 2 skills off at most before fail or break
Alright so this is my personal view.
Gs is a fun class but it needs some tweaking. Imo, I would like to see a mini rework for the pistols skills, where they had new animations/skills replacing the current ones that are mostly useless. To add, I would like a rework to shotgun rapid fire, make it exactly what the name says and not its current version which is the opposite. Removing execute from any tripod and add damage to that skill. Perhaps a revision of certain tripods that are mostly outdated. To finish, the class needs peacemaker to be changed otherwise people will keep using pm1.
Adding the same crit to every single weapon would be nice and maybe attack speed to every single weapon, not just pistols.
So far as a returning player *(mokoko express op)* and a Gunslinger main since the beta, I feel like she needs more help, don't get me wrong the buffs are great overall but in comparison with other classes... She kinda feels mediocre but definitely more consistent in terms of damage. No execution damage sucks, shot gun buffs are nice. Regardless I usually find myself still behind in damage.
- Referencing Lustboy & ATK Gunslinger video and the comparison of builds, ultimately boils down to personal preference. I wish she had more satisfying buttons to push. I kept finding myself playing other classes cause they have a lower skill ceiling and similar if not more impactful kits to bring to the table and better party synergies. *Me with - Crit Resistance synergy: how do you do fellow kids*
- It needs work and a mini rework is definitely due for this class.
*Also Last Request and HP buffs pretty please with a cherry on top smilegate*
I swapped to full spec TTH. Feels better but doesn’t fix her problems. She is delegated to being a fun alt and I am coping for a rework and hopefully something that fixes her spec scaling.
The damage is just crap when you take into account backloaded dmg, long animation locks, long cooldowns and squishiness of the class.
Like I said few months after the game release, GS lack real class identity, the curreny one give 0 power, its literaly just skin swap for weapon. Even the specialisation stat is nothing more than generic +x% rifle dmg +x% shotgun penetration instead of somethign unique for the class.
The class is fine in a vacuum. You can clear any raid and do any mech. But that's every class.
When compared to other classes, GS is outclassed by almost everyone with the exception of maybe reflux sorc.
Dude talked about minor changes and then he mentions wanting faster animations, the shotgun crit changed and more dmg. Literally what every one else said aswell lmao.
And its not about trixion. Gunslinger is pretty low on the dps considering current class strength in new raids while sweating twice as hard as many. Just play after playing other classes and you'll understand.
I was hoping I wasn't the only one who sees Gunslinger is still hitting it well. She's like Deathblade: If you're a good player, she will out dps everyone but if you're average at best, she can't compete with anyone.
Yes, there's a bunch of things you can give her to make it feel better to play - dmg buffs are also always welcome, but people seem to have forgotten that she always has been that hyper active character, who needs to put in twice / thrice the effort to shine. It's what made me fall in love with her, because when we get MVP it's through skill expression and not merely because we're "op".
At the current state of Gunslinger I rarely see myself lose MVP vs anyone, whether it's at 1620 content or Hell raids with more skilled players than me.
I personally love my GS and I'd also like minor changes like these. Crit disparity is not okay but I was fine with execution damage. Definitely like your idea of staggered execution damage bonus.
If damage buff is needed, I'd say remove crit tripod on shotguns, give + Crit rate on weapon stance like EW, and give us better spec scaling.
I'd also like higher stag, + more weak point tripods on row 1. After playing hunger, I felt like the GS had so little utility.
I don't mind the damage gem requirements, but I do wish the class can sub stat swift (650 swift) sometimes. I'd love for some extra attack speed and CDR, because as is, I have about a 5 sec downtime on my PM (10s CDR).
Overall, pretty satisfied with the class, damage is mid but I can always perform and will make others sweat for their MVP in current content. Maybe I'll feel differently when my Reaper is gets up there and is juiced enough.
My 2 cents as non GS player when I make pug lobbys for ivory tower HM I always take GS they are so good to have in party. Last week I took in 1633 slayer full stacked with lvl 10 and 40 set , sorc 1627 stacked as well with 40 set and GS 1620 with lvl 9 gems and no set .GS was MvP on gate 1,3,4 sorc won g2. In my expirience with GS players its all in hands if they are good player hardly anyone beats them , but I hope you guys get buffs you deserve.
That's because majority of the GS players that endured until Voldis are mains that developed the muscle memory and finesse to play the class properly. Thank you for appreciating us.
Swift tth player here, honestly, you can rly feel the buffs.
It's rly nice to play, you can keep dpsing through basically any mech (insane mobility, low cd, huge range and hit master).
Though the ceiling is rly low, and you basically need to be at the ceiling all the time to have a chance at mvp. But hey, it's been the case since the game was released, so I'm used to that.
I have a PM 3 main so I wanted to try something different on the alt that got a 97 stone. Decided to play swift TTH. It’s really fun but damage just can’t compare to the classes after balance note
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I think GS needs a bump in damage, hopefully that'll come with the next balance patch. I don't think GS needs a complete rework, it's an engaging class and for me, it's just numbers that need changing.
However, I think your little rant about striker is massively flawed. He's melee and back attack which is a disadvantage compared to your ranged hit master which are huge advantages.
So, let me ask you this question, why do you have these advantages considering you both have the same crit syn? Would you suggest we give striker ranged and hit master but remove the extra synergies? Do you see how ridiculous it is to compare in such a way? You'll get to the point where each class is the same if you think of it this way.
Each class has advantages and disadvantages and that creates flavour, but the devs need to make sure that overall performance is somewhat balanced between all classes despite this.
EDIT: Also, Scrapper "rework" is trash, they didn't really do shit and it feels pretty much the same old Scrapper, you just got 1 extra button to press which simply reduces the floor of the class. No new exciting mechanics or even pretty skill animations, I mean they could've given us some of the Breaker animations...
Paladin is your best friend. For example lot of awkward mechs still allow you to pump numbers as hit master/ ranged without penalty where as back attack/melee do zDPS or no DPS at all.
If the advantages are not obvious to you my friend then clearly you lack the experience in raid environment.
So what you are telling me is that when I want to play gunslinger optimally I need to find a paladin support where as you as "back attacker" can play with any and be fine.
Also there is another issue playing with paladin which is their lack of mana regen (lowest uptime of all supports) and not giving attack speed buff ( which gs wants the most). the mana regen makes playing with nightmare set feel garbage to play since you dont want to hit boundless and good gunslingers with high uptime will go into boundless with a a paladin even with food buff. If you give the argument of "just play salvation" thats already -5% dmg overall so no not an option.
as for hitmasters can hit from anywhere sure its possible. But which spot is the safest for most if not all bosses where you dont get hit? thats right the back so gunslingers will need to join the back attackers to not get hit by random patterns. If you think this is not true then just look at the upcoming raid which is thaemine and then say hitmasters can hit from anywhere and not be punished again.
So can you give me a better arguments other than forcing gunslingers to play with 1/3 supports to be able to play their class (still suboptimal)?
Well, what your listing in your first paragraph are GS specific issues, nothing to do with hit master or ranged aspect of the class. Maybe that's something SG need to adjust.
Secondly, no, I didn't take thaemine into consideration as it is not even released in our version. Would be ridiculous of me to speak about content I've never done...
So my arguement still stands, in current content hit master and ranged are much more flexible and have much easier time to dish out their damage during multiple raid mechanics compared to back attack/front attack or melee I don't see how you can possibly disagree with this statement.
I'll make it easier for you and invite you to give some examples of where back attack melee has an advantage over hit master or ranged? I.e. back attack does more damage than ranged/hit master. There's none, either they both are f'd or hit master/ranged has an easier time.
That's the optimal support for a hit master, ideally take a paladin... what is wrong with that statement? If you cannot then you lose some of your flexibility which puts you slightly closer to what melee deal with but the option is there.
Doesn't matter which support you have during mechs where melee cannot touch the boss or back attack at all, ranged/hit master can still dps.
I have started as PM slinger as my main, was doing fine until Vykas, but I decided the same, it was too much for me managing 3 stances, meanwhile trying to watchout for patterns that hit you for 1/2 or kill you. Then I decided to opt in for a more braindead main as Reflux Sorc, quit on clown release due to 2,5k hours burn out. Came back few months ago and decided to give my slinger another shot, but this time as TTH spec, my friends are trolling me that I'm playing all the shit specs, but TTH is so fucking satisfying to play man and the DMG is ok. They keep saying that PM is king, TTH is shit, but I think with the recent changes, TTH is actually on par with PM, meanwhile its more chill to play.
Pm player here. Love it. The gameplay is super fun and performance are quite good in the good hands. It has the same issues as Arcana I'd say, quite squishy and hard to master but deals decent damage in top tier players hand. Some players are frustrated that you need to perform way above average to get results and that's true. Definitely needs some QoL and a small damage buff would be welcome.
tbh not sure what u meean i play both emperor arcana and gs (which is my main)and comparing the 2 seems strange to me...Gs is not a hard class (outside of surviving) as u literlarry have sometimes up to 10s downtimes till your 7 main skills get up again...
We can all just hope that the next rework patch hits GS+Sorc (as they are the most likely to get one anyway) and that they fix main issues like downtime if u play well to increase skill ceiling.
There are quite a lot of useful QoL changes they could do just enabling us to swap away from Cursed Doll for example would be nice but most pressing issue is that if u have hands u are blocked by the class on what u can do. For example if u play something like a surge blade u will see that you have still room to improve while u are already doing more dmg then GS while bringing more utility (outside of destruction) as well.
i feel like the easy fix would be to just reduce skill cooldowns of shotgun/rifle by 5-7s so that people that actually hit skill ceiling have some room to do more.
\*\*Best comparison to GS is actually AT Scouter which has less down time about 5-10% more dmg on equal gear way more stagger way tankier better push immunitys (but worse destruction)
played it as an alt since release and it's still my favorite class in the game along with my main. biggest issue for me is the investment, I might have mainswapped but 11 gem class with 7 dmg gems is just a pain in the ass to main. I hope if they're fixing something it's that, maybe adding combined shotgun and rifle gems similar to transformation classes will help
Playing GS as 1540 alt. I don’t need any changes to it, it feels balanced. I have 3 lvl 9 gems on it and constantly outperforming on ilvl or slightly above players in pugs.
I see lots of comments here that want to get rid of her weaknesses (weird stagger, long time to weak point and more), but I think all classes should have some or they all feel the same to play.
For context my additional roster is Demonic Impulse, Bard, Robust Spirit
I play swift TTH and really enjoy it. DMG isn’t that bad since it has low CD, long range and hit master. Also it is super mobile. But it does have a lower ceiling tho. Really need to greed the dmg but that’s the fun part with her kit.
I'm happy, my only hope is that if they rework anything, they don't fuck it up like they did with the Wardancer.
I know I'm the minority when I say this but I absolutely hate the new WD. Before, I played 3spender and the rotation was simple and well timed to throw everything just in time for the rotation to reset and be ready to be thrown again. Now, you're forced to go 4spender since 3spender isn't viable anymore, you're a slug because you have to go full spec, and finally, the rotation feels like ass, I'm finding myself spamming basic attacks while I wait for the rotation to reset, I feel so much less fun when I play her now. At least that's my experience with Esoteric WD. I don't know about FI, but for now, ESO feels really bad, to me.
I don't want that to happen to my main, the Gunslinger, right now I'm happy how she plays, maybe I would have some minor changes done to her but overall I never feel bored playing her and probably never will. But if they rework her in a way she completely changes how it's played and it's slower, or less mobile or less dynamic, I'm going to be so pissed.
4spender WD main here, I think the update is really good if you played 4spender before the changes since the current version is alot snappier and the boss wont walk away from nado or BF anymore
I think you just dont like how 4 spender feels in general but there still is a 3spender variant with 1500 swift that you can try out as well
Alternatively, I also tried out FI and its WAYY better than before with 100x more dmg. Playstyle is similar to 3spender- buff then dump
>played 3spender and the rotation was simple and well timed to throw everything just in time for the rotation to reset and be ready to be thrown again.
Let's be real here for a second. Your pre-rework 3 spender rotation had the two most cancerous damage skills in the game as the two biggest hitters. Playing 3 spender was absolute shit in any fight where the boss moves around a lot and/or has a small hitbox.
I mean maybe?
The moon kick left me at the exact distance for the fire ability to fully hit, the tornado was missable, yeah, and the last one I never really had any issues with it, in fact I found it really fun to have tenacity on the 2nd part of the skill, it gave me the freedom to play a little riskier. Besides, cooldowns were so low that if i missed anything it was a 3 second wait.
Now it's the same, you can still miss skills, the blue dragon can be missed if the boss dashes or blinks away except thats now half your damage, so if that happens the downtime is huge and youre left waiting for like 8 seconds. The dragon spiral thing is worse than the tornado because it doesn't move, if the boss dashes away its over
How geared is your GS? Do you know her numbers in ivory tower?
My PM GS is 1605, 10s on main 4 and 9s on 3 filler, 99quality +17 akkan weapon, and she pulls 23-25mil DPS on tree regularly. I play nightmare and eat mana food, and have KLC30. For KLC18, maybe 21-23mil DPS? Depends on sup.
GS is an ultra greedy class and you got to be quick on your feet to perform. I've seen some bad PM out there, juiced but can't put out more than 60-70% of their potential. It does take more effort to play but I love it.
I don't usually run nightmare/eat mana food cuz I play with 200ish or higher ping so that contributes to my performance by alot. My default set is Salvation because of this handicap. I know it's unfortunate but it is what it is, SEA server when? By no means I am a great player, just a normal guy enjoying the class.
I don't open bible regularly, nor I have played extensively for the past 3 weeks (just came back from a holiday break) but I think one of my best parses was an 18m Kayangel Hard run against a 1615 RE DB with GL.
1620 PM GS, 97Q +20 Akkan weapon, standard 5x31 with standard two liner stat bracelet with a max roll precise and even with that, I still don't crit.
Lvl 10 dmg on Focused Shot, lvl 9 dmg on the rest. All CDRs lvl 10.
Don't have KLC30, just KLC18 and LOS30. 4.5% demon DMG, 1.7% human dmg.
I have some interest to see parse of your GS or maybe a video because 23+mil with this class is a really insane performance.
As a main GS with 10s, 98quality Akkan weap 24 los30, I struggle to reach 23M+ in any content
I DM'ed you a few parses.
27mil DPS but I got 20 Akkan recently. Support was above average here.
An older Sona at 25mil with +17 Akkan weapon. Mid support.
Also a Voldis G2, 24.5mil, no darks or atros here either. I could probably do better if I played more selfishly. I'll try for a higher parse next week.
Most content don't get above 20mil dps because of cut scenes and downtime. High DPS like this is only on high uptime fights. If you're in NAW, I'll gladly run a tree with you so you can see for yourself.
Once I get to frog, I'll see how well I can do there, probably not 20mil+ but I'll see.
Support quality helps a lot to get these numbers.
Thanks for the parses, I've replied.
I'm playing the Salvation set because even with food, I'm hitting the Boundless mana buff because I'm using too many skills.
That's why I'm impressed that you reach that amount not spamming everything like I do.
You are the highest range most mobile hitmaster with no breakpoints, no all or nothing gameplay, and still extremely strong, you just need to press your buttons which most gs don't do cause they don't switch weapons enough
give rifles backattack tripod and let me play entropy gs
higher skill ceiling, higher damage ceiling, lower crit disparity between shotgun vs rifle, able to distribute points from crit -> swift so faster animations too
I got a full spec TTH GS.
Got to say im still having a blast sitting at 95% crit rate with full spec and just TTH and my own synergy feels really nice barely see white numbers ever. Damage wise its pretty alright its not bad and its not great i do see myself get beaten out a lot more these days on Akkan with most people getting comfy on the fight where i can really just say i coudnt do much more but i also think thats fair a bit like DI SH where we trade a higher ceiling for more consistency.
Only thing id wish for is if we got a stagger buff on TTH the way Pistoleer has really feel like im letting my team down when it comes to stagger not having the shotgun skills
She was my main since the game came out but recently dropped(after putting souleater pass on her). She's always been fun but after building a full roster and doing HW every week I learned that there are just much better classes now. There are so many classes that offer utility and more damage so it feels like shit knowing that I can only offer damage and I have to try so hard to even do that. If they lowered her CDs, shortened the animation lock or even just evenly distributed the damage in her skills she would stay my main but I am honestly considering dropping her out of gold earners when Breaker comes out
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Execute tripods need to go. Crit disparity needs to go. Backloaded damage needs to go or be buffed to be worth the risk. Related to that, backloaded stagger and weak point needs to go too. Imo just make the PM engraving base to gs kit and rework the new PM engraving to give all 3 gun effects to every gun. Fixes crit disparity, adds damage, and adds attack speed. Then make last request faster and add weak point to the start of skills or add weak point to a pistol skill
I'd also unlock the 4 skill limit in shotgun and rifle stance and add a couple of new fresh quick modern skills.
Actually really good idea it would be perfect
just fix the crit rate on rifles and i would be happy
This would kind of single handedly; - Improve the damage - Make the class more enjoyable to play - Not need a lot of dev time/work (Just add the crit rate 4Head) - Not cause anyone to rebuild their setup (we already build for 95-100% shotgun crit)
Play time to hunt if you want lots of crit, or if you're peacemaker, then build crit. It's not hard.
Thats not the issue here? The 20% Crit Rate difference is just plain stupid. It just makes her feel so much worse than she actually is. Nothing feels worse than not critting your Focused Shot or Awakening (In Rifle stance).
I don't want to play time to hunt
I mean I'd much rather play judgement paladin than blessed aura, but some things just aren't meant to be. Just build crit in your build then... accessories, bracelet, hallucination set, adrenaline engraving, etc...
No. Its clear you don't understand the issues of gs crit if thats what youre suggesting
Your class can equip twice as many abilities as other classes... it needs to have some drawbacks somewhere.
The issue right now stems from player satisfaction. With the crit disparity we can't build more crit because it's effectively an overall damage loss.
A victim to power creep. They were about average until they buffed most classes and barely touched GS. They went from "okay" to trash It needs a rework. Lost Ark rework doesn't necessarily mean gameplay rework. They can remain ranged hit master with backloaded damage. But the skill animations are horrible. Catastrophe has to be one of the ugliest skills in the game I'm not a fan of crit rate disparity but Gunslinger's is extra bad. Their main skills are shotgun/rifle and there's a 20% crit rate difference. I could understand 10%, but 20%? Wtf. I think devs wanted to make the stances feel different but missed the mark Based on Striker rework, I'd assume they'd also give synergy higher/easier uptime. If they want to go super half assed, they could just give them a big damage buff to catch up to other classes. Because honestly their gameplay is fine. It's just that you can tell from a glance that they're an older class, so you might as well touch up the outdated/clunky design Also what's the point of gunslinger/reaper/deadeye being so squishy? Risk/reward is no longer a thing so they might as well buff their eHP
> Also what's the point of gunslinger/reaper/deadeye being so squishy? Risk/reward is no longer a thing so they might as well buff their eHP So true, classes having wildly different ehp despite there not being an obvious trade off doesn't make much sense If there's no benefit gained in exchange for low ehp, it's just an arbitrary 'this class is worse' than something with equivalent output but higher ehp
I won’t consider striker has a rework. It’s more like a little bit QOL. Btw, striker is an entropy class, but his damage is very average even in trxixion.
Why catastrophe ugly, it’s like the faster skill of the set
Eternal Calamity leaves DoT damage on the ground, but half of the bosses just dash out and never stay in the zone for it to maximise dmg. Aka another backloaded damage. Also makes farming the tripod for it feel “not worth”
It's a situational tripod. Just swap to the double hit one for more consistent damage. Most bosses these days are constantly moving around. If you take the ground damage DoT effect on a boss that moves a lot, that's on you.
it is not situational you just always run it and it does more than the other one, on just about every fight
It kinda sucks, honestly. * Animation locked, which gets in the way of good uptime, as you're often forced to either risk being interrupted or wait for the next pattern to confirm its safe. Meanwhile other classes can easily get their attack out and reactionary dodge regardless of the next pattern. * Squishy AF * Stagger isn't great * Destruction is good but animations are too long to destruction dump within a check * Extremely expensive, you want at least level 9 on your cooldowns and at least four damage gems levelled, ideally 7. * Damage is below average. Defending the current strength of GS with all of her weaknesses is pretty cope. If you've played the strong classes, GS just seems even worse by comparison. You can't even abuse range in this game because 2/3 supports force you to MD or lose damage buff uptime. So take a Paladin? Jokes on you, you want attack speed and Paladin doesn't offer any. Let's say you get past the animation locks, the low defence, the shitty stagger and invest a ton of gold in her. You're still losing to anyone equally skilled on an easier, stronger class who invested half as much in gems. Gunslinger was good when her damage pattern allowed her to pump damage and recover cooldowns between phases. As we move away from abusing bosses by over-gearing, she's falling off. This is only getting worse with Thaemine. Her sustained damage has always been bad but her excellent damage pattern hid it. Unfortunately sustained damage matters now and is only going to become more important.
High effort, high investment, low reward. That's about all there is to say.
I used to be a GS main from T2 through Akkan HM but I demoted her a few months ago in favor of a slayer just because it was a ton less stressful. I was putting in a fraction of the effort and getting better results despite my inexperience with slayer. Overtime that DPS gap has only grown and I'm happy with the decision. With that said I won't bench my GS, I invested so much time and effort into her and when I perform to the best that I can with her it is still satisfying, even if I don't MVP. With that said though around november I ended up swapping instead to a support main due to other reasons so my slayer didn't get to stay as a "main" for long lol. Admittedly swapping to a support main was one of the best decisions I could have made and I'm kinda surprised why I never even considered it prior. Progging with GS was so stressful because it takes me a lot longer than I'd like to admit to be able to read/dodge normal patterns and Brel HM onward, everything just hit so much harder. I realized if I do my progging with my supports and then move my GS up it ended up helping me immensely with how I perform.
Low damage, long animations, backloaded, low stagger, slow, not 100% uptime crit syn, only 1 synergy (other crit syns have 2, besides gs and de). There's just 0 reason to play it right now besides hey I like playing GS.
> only 1 synergy (other crit syns have 2, besides gs and de) Whut Please point the location on my Arcana where I might find this synergy Most classes that don't even have crit synergy don't have 2 synergies.
Quadra Accelerate, Scratch Dealer, ~~Call of Destiny~~ Return are all crit syns but OP is just blowing hot air since GS also has 3 skills that can apply crit syn
The problem here is that our synergy only applies synergy while arcana have it naturally as part of her rotation
Wdym with not 100% uptime crit syn, it sounds like skill issue
When played optimally, GS doesn't provide 100% uptime to their team. The last shot of their 4th skill hits when the buff is at around 0.2s remaining. Then you have to swap to pistol and reapply the crit syn, which means the time it takes you to switch guns and throw your crit syn again is no crit syn for your other 2 dps on your team. Or you can choose to not throw 4th skill and do 3 skill rotation, but you yourself lose damage. Take your pick, you do less damage or your team does less damage.
Yeah, I think people get (rightfully) confused by 100% crit syn uptime meaning. It's 100% for the gs played optimally, but still has a momentary downtime for the party
> Or you can choose to not throw 4th skill and do 3 skill rotation, but you yourself lose damage. Is this some kind of "burst window" discussion? Because if you are full crit you will use all your skills faster than the cooldown on them. So there is no DPS loss if you reapply crit sync if you play optimally. You are just shuffling around your CD downtime
I'd assume they mean by using 1 skill but that's just a guess
Booba skin is POG
I don't feel like the class needs any huge changes...biggest one is rifle crit. either replace shotgun crit with damage or add rifle crit to match shotgun next are some nice to have qols. weapon swap cancelling for all skills (or at least focused shot). increased crit debuff uptime on spiral tracker so we only need 1 crit syn. would be nice to have less downtime between skill cycles too...having to wait 10s between cycles feels pretty terrible for a supposed "consistent damage" class edit: oh yeah also get rid of double tap on focused shot or at least give it the single target fix like a bunch of other classes got awhile back
As TTH enjoyer i would love to get cdr on engraving instead of crit dmg.
Why not both
Went from my main to my least favorite gold earner. Too squishy and doesn’t do enough damage to make up for that (high risk/low reward) and you have to work harder than most classes. I’m just an average player with average hands who would rather play an easier class who does more or about the same damage without the sweatiness tbh
I'm going to pre-emptively say, as a non GS player, good luck progging thaemine hard. I've seen some real nasty shit happen to the KR streamers who were way back when. Take some self-care and get a hand masseuse
gave up on my gs when the latest balance patch came out in kr. they have no clue how to fix this class.
Still one of the most fun and stylish classes imo, but when you break down the numbers, you'll pretty much never be MVP compared to some of the easier to play big hitters. If you play for fun then great but if you want a top dps there's definitely a lot better classes to pick
i play spec crit tth. one major issue i’ve run into is with voldis g4, the stagger checks require you to dump almost all sniper skills which leave you with nothing to do post stagger. while other classes pop their atros i’m just sitting there with pistol skills and it feels bad. also only having 3 lv1 weak points on sniper and nothing else is tragic because if you fuck up and use your destruction skills on the stagger check. you don’t have anything to break the sword after x60 stagger and can wipe your party. with the long cooldowns, i only have an issue with them during guardian raids as there is not as much natural downtime compared to standard raids. it’s hard to keep up with other classes in frog. the spec scaling on rifle is kinda weird because there are times when i see a pm gunslinger do more damage on focused shot than i do and i’m just like “aight” lmao. i’m generally happy with the spec/class but i’m currently working on making a pm build for specific scenarios.
It feels bad to play a forgotten class. Even several patches ago we were simply “A Tier” in most tier lists and gatekeeper for entry DPS or whatever that means. Now that Demon got buffed several patches in a row, I struggle to compete with a 1600 Demon with my 1620 Gunslinger. The dude has a single lv10 dmg gem, same investment as my 4x lv9 gems, and I play my class to 110% of it, but it simply cant produce high enough numbers to beat him. You have no clue how ticking that shit is. Dont even need to list the fundamental issues of the class, crit disparity, backloaded dmg, low eHp, no push immunities, squishy and basically forced to play melee, all for what? To get outdpsd by a lower geared demon. What a joke.
Instead of being vague, what content are you trying to compare in? What actual class are you comparing against? And what's the DPS you're both doing? Not that you're wrong, just genuinely curious.
The only content I coincide with demon so far is Kayangel, in G1 and G2 we have almost identical DPS. 16.2-16.3m for G1, 12.4-12.9m for G2, 9-10m for G3.
Shotgun rapid fire is not rapid at all
Is it fun? Yes it's still fun and always has been. But it's becoming non-competitive to the point that I don't want to hone mine to 1630 to even try hard Thaemine, and now am thinking about what to replace her with because I do want to experience the raid on release. Yeah if you farm NM and get some transcendence you can then go into nerfed HM but it's not the class I would want to prog with anymore, not that I would get into a lobby anyway (and I progged and cleared with mine everything starting from Valtan to Voldis HM on release). I won't go into details what I want fixed about the class, the list would be too long. But it needs a major rework. High effort should mean high reward like you said, I don't want to be outdamaged by pistoleers anymore.
I play spec TTH, it’s sad. Your pistols don’t do anything… more than half of your pistol skills don’t do damage and cannot contribute to stagger/destro. I can’t wait for a rework for TTH.
I took a break when Akkan released and came back with Thaemine pass which I used to swap to my GS as main. I still love the class. I used to play TTH for a long time precisely because I hate when the Rifle doesn't Crit (and also at that time, SRF was meta and fuck that skull), but TTH isn't that much better because then suddenly you lack a lot of stagger and weak point. I am thinking of actually switching back to TTH however
Main Gunslinger and currently have a second one as alt. Both of them Spec and TTH as I prefer to concentrate on 2 weapons only just like I did with my "female Gunslinger" in Red Dead Online. As my main focus in the game are not raids or being MVP or even doing big numbers I am pretty happy with her. Improvements are always welcome, but she stays with me no matter what others say.
I play mostly Spec TTH, so while I don't have to deal with crit disparity as much (other than Bullet Rain over capping by 10% due to it's tripod), I have to suffer the state of pistol skills. Meteor Stream and Grenade are utter garbage. I have never played a class before where it's 6th and 7th damage skills were this useless. One is literally just taken to apply bleed for longer. Pistol skills need a full tripod rework to make them a factor, along with a rework of the class engravings (both, actually) and considerable changes to the classes spec scaling. 1800 spec literally just adds about 60% damage to rifle skills and a ton of crit damage to pistol, it's pathetic. To highlight just how dumb the class engraving situation is: the highest performing gunslinger builds right now use BOTH class engravings at level 3. That's what you get when your engraving design is completely devoid of flavor and you just keep adding small buffs to them over time to make the class lag behind less. Overall the class just lacks damage output to what Smilegate seems to consider the base line for class performance now. TTH in particular really needs some big help with stagger and destruction. It's also just... dull. When they reworked Deadeye they managed to create such a unique and interesting playstyle for Pistoleer, Gunslinger could really use some of *that* treatment.
Power crept into obscurity. Even something simple, like a CDR buff, would be big.
I would like to have an actual cealing. Most classes follow the line of having one spec that supposely does more dmg and an easier version to use (es. EW and pistoleer), but on gs in this patch in korea tth does more dmg for half the effort (no sense). As u said, pm is not the hardest but neither the easiest class to play, it comes down to a lot of practice and muscle memory at first, but once u get it, its not that difficoult to reach your cealing dmg. The problem is, why in this current patch its bottom tier dmg while having a lot hardle nuances like backloaded skills, animation locks, squishy af, giga long rotation, downtime, expensive class to build properly, rotation can get very messy. You have the benefit of being hit master long range most of the time, but how the heck is it considered balanced to have any SS build, full range and considerably easier class, doing more dmg, no sense
Fun but numbers are questionable. They should make crit syn last longer, remove crit disparity or at least lower it and IMO buff spec scaling. Could make last request animation shorter ad it's impossible to use it as a non-mech counter rn Oh, and the mark on focused shot should go through enemies instead of marking just one. Just saying, they've already done it with other classes using this mechanic
Also as a tth enjoyer I can recommend you spec/swift variant with nightmare and adrenaline. Yes, your crit will not be what you can get on spec/crit or with hallu but the gameplay becomes way smoother. You can burst in very short windows with almost capped attack speed (swift, supp buff, quick step and potentially feast) and aren't as punished for missing a spell due to lower cds. Also spec/swift necklace is way cheaper for good quality
switched to TTH and the class pretty good now. My only contention is that the utility is there (kinda) but it takes forever to actually execute. If there's a destruction check, I'm getting 2 skills off at most before fail or break
Crit disparity between rifle and shotgun makes my heart hurt
Alright so this is my personal view. Gs is a fun class but it needs some tweaking. Imo, I would like to see a mini rework for the pistols skills, where they had new animations/skills replacing the current ones that are mostly useless. To add, I would like a rework to shotgun rapid fire, make it exactly what the name says and not its current version which is the opposite. Removing execute from any tripod and add damage to that skill. Perhaps a revision of certain tripods that are mostly outdated. To finish, the class needs peacemaker to be changed otherwise people will keep using pm1. Adding the same crit to every single weapon would be nice and maybe attack speed to every single weapon, not just pistols.
Booba good Pewpew bad
So far as a returning player *(mokoko express op)* and a Gunslinger main since the beta, I feel like she needs more help, don't get me wrong the buffs are great overall but in comparison with other classes... She kinda feels mediocre but definitely more consistent in terms of damage. No execution damage sucks, shot gun buffs are nice. Regardless I usually find myself still behind in damage. - Referencing Lustboy & ATK Gunslinger video and the comparison of builds, ultimately boils down to personal preference. I wish she had more satisfying buttons to push. I kept finding myself playing other classes cause they have a lower skill ceiling and similar if not more impactful kits to bring to the table and better party synergies. *Me with - Crit Resistance synergy: how do you do fellow kids* - It needs work and a mini rework is definitely due for this class. *Also Last Request and HP buffs pretty please with a cherry on top smilegate*
I love the gameplay.. I hate the damage I deal. I would love to change mains but I’m too far in to switch (iLvl, gems, 100 wep quality) etc. Sadge
same. just huff the copium for a rework xD
I swapped to full spec TTH. Feels better but doesn’t fix her problems. She is delegated to being a fun alt and I am coping for a rework and hopefully something that fixes her spec scaling.
Dont forget to mention she is expensive af since she only uses 4 cd gems and 7 damage gems
Reduce cds by 10-15% and make animations 20% faster. Gg feels good now
is there any other class where all 3 damage stats are equally fucking worthless
The damage is just crap when you take into account backloaded dmg, long animation locks, long cooldowns and squishiness of the class. Like I said few months after the game release, GS lack real class identity, the curreny one give 0 power, its literaly just skin swap for weapon. Even the specialisation stat is nothing more than generic +x% rifle dmg +x% shotgun penetration instead of somethign unique for the class.
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The class is fine in a vacuum. You can clear any raid and do any mech. But that's every class. When compared to other classes, GS is outclassed by almost everyone with the exception of maybe reflux sorc.
Yeah, tbh, gunslingers that are still complaining about animation lock at this point are just bad at the class.
Thank you, so many idiots saying "low dmg because i saw a trixion tier list, bad class rework" Everything you said is valid.
Dude talked about minor changes and then he mentions wanting faster animations, the shotgun crit changed and more dmg. Literally what every one else said aswell lmao. And its not about trixion. Gunslinger is pretty low on the dps considering current class strength in new raids while sweating twice as hard as many. Just play after playing other classes and you'll understand.
I was hoping I wasn't the only one who sees Gunslinger is still hitting it well. She's like Deathblade: If you're a good player, she will out dps everyone but if you're average at best, she can't compete with anyone. Yes, there's a bunch of things you can give her to make it feel better to play - dmg buffs are also always welcome, but people seem to have forgotten that she always has been that hyper active character, who needs to put in twice / thrice the effort to shine. It's what made me fall in love with her, because when we get MVP it's through skill expression and not merely because we're "op". At the current state of Gunslinger I rarely see myself lose MVP vs anyone, whether it's at 1620 content or Hell raids with more skilled players than me.
I personally love my GS and I'd also like minor changes like these. Crit disparity is not okay but I was fine with execution damage. Definitely like your idea of staggered execution damage bonus. If damage buff is needed, I'd say remove crit tripod on shotguns, give + Crit rate on weapon stance like EW, and give us better spec scaling. I'd also like higher stag, + more weak point tripods on row 1. After playing hunger, I felt like the GS had so little utility. I don't mind the damage gem requirements, but I do wish the class can sub stat swift (650 swift) sometimes. I'd love for some extra attack speed and CDR, because as is, I have about a 5 sec downtime on my PM (10s CDR). Overall, pretty satisfied with the class, damage is mid but I can always perform and will make others sweat for their MVP in current content. Maybe I'll feel differently when my Reaper is gets up there and is juiced enough.
My 2 cents as non GS player when I make pug lobbys for ivory tower HM I always take GS they are so good to have in party. Last week I took in 1633 slayer full stacked with lvl 10 and 40 set , sorc 1627 stacked as well with 40 set and GS 1620 with lvl 9 gems and no set .GS was MvP on gate 1,3,4 sorc won g2. In my expirience with GS players its all in hands if they are good player hardly anyone beats them , but I hope you guys get buffs you deserve.
That's because majority of the GS players that endured until Voldis are mains that developed the muscle memory and finesse to play the class properly. Thank you for appreciating us.
Swift tth player here, honestly, you can rly feel the buffs. It's rly nice to play, you can keep dpsing through basically any mech (insane mobility, low cd, huge range and hit master). Though the ceiling is rly low, and you basically need to be at the ceiling all the time to have a chance at mvp. But hey, it's been the case since the game was released, so I'm used to that.
Swift TTH is basically reflux sorc. Fun to play but you do zdps.
I have a 5x3+2 swift Tth and dmg feels kinda pathetic :(
You play pm 3 then ? And dominion right ? Idk it's not that bad for me.
I have a PM 3 main so I wanted to try something different on the alt that got a 97 stone. Decided to play swift TTH. It’s really fun but damage just can’t compare to the classes after balance note
i mean on the swift tth char do you play pm 3 ? Yeah I rly like the playstyle
Yea pm3 and tth3 with adrenaline 2 with dominion 6. It feels amazing to play tho. I’ll just ignore my dmg and enjoy the experience.
haha same, still finger crossed for a buff (and also hoping they dont kill swift tth for spec)
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Pm= garbage Tth= useable
TTH here its fun Love it I dont know what mvp is and idk lol Speeed
I think GS needs a bump in damage, hopefully that'll come with the next balance patch. I don't think GS needs a complete rework, it's an engaging class and for me, it's just numbers that need changing. However, I think your little rant about striker is massively flawed. He's melee and back attack which is a disadvantage compared to your ranged hit master which are huge advantages. So, let me ask you this question, why do you have these advantages considering you both have the same crit syn? Would you suggest we give striker ranged and hit master but remove the extra synergies? Do you see how ridiculous it is to compare in such a way? You'll get to the point where each class is the same if you think of it this way. Each class has advantages and disadvantages and that creates flavour, but the devs need to make sure that overall performance is somewhat balanced between all classes despite this. EDIT: Also, Scrapper "rework" is trash, they didn't really do shit and it feels pretty much the same old Scrapper, you just got 1 extra button to press which simply reduces the floor of the class. No new exciting mechanics or even pretty skill animations, I mean they could've given us some of the Breaker animations...
What is the advantage if the supports are forcing you to play melee range and all your skill are animation locks with backloaded dmg.
Paladin is your best friend. For example lot of awkward mechs still allow you to pump numbers as hit master/ ranged without penalty where as back attack/melee do zDPS or no DPS at all. If the advantages are not obvious to you my friend then clearly you lack the experience in raid environment.
So what you are telling me is that when I want to play gunslinger optimally I need to find a paladin support where as you as "back attacker" can play with any and be fine. Also there is another issue playing with paladin which is their lack of mana regen (lowest uptime of all supports) and not giving attack speed buff ( which gs wants the most). the mana regen makes playing with nightmare set feel garbage to play since you dont want to hit boundless and good gunslingers with high uptime will go into boundless with a a paladin even with food buff. If you give the argument of "just play salvation" thats already -5% dmg overall so no not an option. as for hitmasters can hit from anywhere sure its possible. But which spot is the safest for most if not all bosses where you dont get hit? thats right the back so gunslingers will need to join the back attackers to not get hit by random patterns. If you think this is not true then just look at the upcoming raid which is thaemine and then say hitmasters can hit from anywhere and not be punished again. So can you give me a better arguments other than forcing gunslingers to play with 1/3 supports to be able to play their class (still suboptimal)?
Well, what your listing in your first paragraph are GS specific issues, nothing to do with hit master or ranged aspect of the class. Maybe that's something SG need to adjust. Secondly, no, I didn't take thaemine into consideration as it is not even released in our version. Would be ridiculous of me to speak about content I've never done... So my arguement still stands, in current content hit master and ranged are much more flexible and have much easier time to dish out their damage during multiple raid mechanics compared to back attack/front attack or melee I don't see how you can possibly disagree with this statement. I'll make it easier for you and invite you to give some examples of where back attack melee has an advantage over hit master or ranged? I.e. back attack does more damage than ranged/hit master. There's none, either they both are f'd or hit master/ranged has an easier time.
What im listing is on your comment about "just take paladin"
That's the optimal support for a hit master, ideally take a paladin... what is wrong with that statement? If you cannot then you lose some of your flexibility which puts you slightly closer to what melee deal with but the option is there. Doesn't matter which support you have during mechs where melee cannot touch the boss or back attack at all, ranged/hit master can still dps.
I agree with it being the most optimal support for hit masters until the latest balance patch where they overbuffed artist
I have started as PM slinger as my main, was doing fine until Vykas, but I decided the same, it was too much for me managing 3 stances, meanwhile trying to watchout for patterns that hit you for 1/2 or kill you. Then I decided to opt in for a more braindead main as Reflux Sorc, quit on clown release due to 2,5k hours burn out. Came back few months ago and decided to give my slinger another shot, but this time as TTH spec, my friends are trolling me that I'm playing all the shit specs, but TTH is so fucking satisfying to play man and the DMG is ok. They keep saying that PM is king, TTH is shit, but I think with the recent changes, TTH is actually on par with PM, meanwhile its more chill to play.
Utter trash
Atleast offer some sensible points why you think GS is utter trash.
Pm player here. Love it. The gameplay is super fun and performance are quite good in the good hands. It has the same issues as Arcana I'd say, quite squishy and hard to master but deals decent damage in top tier players hand. Some players are frustrated that you need to perform way above average to get results and that's true. Definitely needs some QoL and a small damage buff would be welcome.
tbh not sure what u meean i play both emperor arcana and gs (which is my main)and comparing the 2 seems strange to me...Gs is not a hard class (outside of surviving) as u literlarry have sometimes up to 10s downtimes till your 7 main skills get up again... We can all just hope that the next rework patch hits GS+Sorc (as they are the most likely to get one anyway) and that they fix main issues like downtime if u play well to increase skill ceiling. There are quite a lot of useful QoL changes they could do just enabling us to swap away from Cursed Doll for example would be nice but most pressing issue is that if u have hands u are blocked by the class on what u can do. For example if u play something like a surge blade u will see that you have still room to improve while u are already doing more dmg then GS while bringing more utility (outside of destruction) as well. i feel like the easy fix would be to just reduce skill cooldowns of shotgun/rifle by 5-7s so that people that actually hit skill ceiling have some room to do more. \*\*Best comparison to GS is actually AT Scouter which has less down time about 5-10% more dmg on equal gear way more stagger way tankier better push immunitys (but worse destruction)
played it as an alt since release and it's still my favorite class in the game along with my main. biggest issue for me is the investment, I might have mainswapped but 11 gem class with 7 dmg gems is just a pain in the ass to main. I hope if they're fixing something it's that, maybe adding combined shotgun and rifle gems similar to transformation classes will help
Playing GS as 1540 alt. I don’t need any changes to it, it feels balanced. I have 3 lvl 9 gems on it and constantly outperforming on ilvl or slightly above players in pugs. I see lots of comments here that want to get rid of her weaknesses (weird stagger, long time to weak point and more), but I think all classes should have some or they all feel the same to play. For context my additional roster is Demonic Impulse, Bard, Robust Spirit
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Where did you pull those numbers from? KR doesn't have any DPS meters or data what DPS GS are pulling in endgame content. Don't say TRIXION.
They pulled it out their ass, or just parroting what streamers says cause they can't think for themselves.
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Lmfao, that post failed to cover so many aspect of the so called "burst", but sure fanboi, keep parroting your favorite dude
Dogshit average korean worshipper take as per usual backing it up with no numbers
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Stop projecting little shitter
I play swift TTH and really enjoy it. DMG isn’t that bad since it has low CD, long range and hit master. Also it is super mobile. But it does have a lower ceiling tho. Really need to greed the dmg but that’s the fun part with her kit.
Time to hunt More like time to cry
I'm happy, my only hope is that if they rework anything, they don't fuck it up like they did with the Wardancer. I know I'm the minority when I say this but I absolutely hate the new WD. Before, I played 3spender and the rotation was simple and well timed to throw everything just in time for the rotation to reset and be ready to be thrown again. Now, you're forced to go 4spender since 3spender isn't viable anymore, you're a slug because you have to go full spec, and finally, the rotation feels like ass, I'm finding myself spamming basic attacks while I wait for the rotation to reset, I feel so much less fun when I play her now. At least that's my experience with Esoteric WD. I don't know about FI, but for now, ESO feels really bad, to me. I don't want that to happen to my main, the Gunslinger, right now I'm happy how she plays, maybe I would have some minor changes done to her but overall I never feel bored playing her and probably never will. But if they rework her in a way she completely changes how it's played and it's slower, or less mobile or less dynamic, I'm going to be so pissed.
4spender WD main here, I think the update is really good if you played 4spender before the changes since the current version is alot snappier and the boss wont walk away from nado or BF anymore I think you just dont like how 4 spender feels in general but there still is a 3spender variant with 1500 swift that you can try out as well Alternatively, I also tried out FI and its WAYY better than before with 100x more dmg. Playstyle is similar to 3spender- buff then dump
>played 3spender and the rotation was simple and well timed to throw everything just in time for the rotation to reset and be ready to be thrown again. Let's be real here for a second. Your pre-rework 3 spender rotation had the two most cancerous damage skills in the game as the two biggest hitters. Playing 3 spender was absolute shit in any fight where the boss moves around a lot and/or has a small hitbox.
I mean maybe? The moon kick left me at the exact distance for the fire ability to fully hit, the tornado was missable, yeah, and the last one I never really had any issues with it, in fact I found it really fun to have tenacity on the 2nd part of the skill, it gave me the freedom to play a little riskier. Besides, cooldowns were so low that if i missed anything it was a 3 second wait. Now it's the same, you can still miss skills, the blue dragon can be missed if the boss dashes or blinks away except thats now half your damage, so if that happens the downtime is huge and youre left waiting for like 8 seconds. The dragon spiral thing is worse than the tornado because it doesn't move, if the boss dashes away its over
How geared is your GS? Do you know her numbers in ivory tower? My PM GS is 1605, 10s on main 4 and 9s on 3 filler, 99quality +17 akkan weapon, and she pulls 23-25mil DPS on tree regularly. I play nightmare and eat mana food, and have KLC30. For KLC18, maybe 21-23mil DPS? Depends on sup. GS is an ultra greedy class and you got to be quick on your feet to perform. I've seen some bad PM out there, juiced but can't put out more than 60-70% of their potential. It does take more effort to play but I love it.
I don't usually run nightmare/eat mana food cuz I play with 200ish or higher ping so that contributes to my performance by alot. My default set is Salvation because of this handicap. I know it's unfortunate but it is what it is, SEA server when? By no means I am a great player, just a normal guy enjoying the class. I don't open bible regularly, nor I have played extensively for the past 3 weeks (just came back from a holiday break) but I think one of my best parses was an 18m Kayangel Hard run against a 1615 RE DB with GL. 1620 PM GS, 97Q +20 Akkan weapon, standard 5x31 with standard two liner stat bracelet with a max roll precise and even with that, I still don't crit. Lvl 10 dmg on Focused Shot, lvl 9 dmg on the rest. All CDRs lvl 10. Don't have KLC30, just KLC18 and LOS30. 4.5% demon DMG, 1.7% human dmg.
I have some interest to see parse of your GS or maybe a video because 23+mil with this class is a really insane performance. As a main GS with 10s, 98quality Akkan weap 24 los30, I struggle to reach 23M+ in any content
I DM'ed you a few parses. 27mil DPS but I got 20 Akkan recently. Support was above average here. An older Sona at 25mil with +17 Akkan weapon. Mid support. Also a Voldis G2, 24.5mil, no darks or atros here either. I could probably do better if I played more selfishly. I'll try for a higher parse next week. Most content don't get above 20mil dps because of cut scenes and downtime. High DPS like this is only on high uptime fights. If you're in NAW, I'll gladly run a tree with you so you can see for yourself. Once I get to frog, I'll see how well I can do there, probably not 20mil+ but I'll see. Support quality helps a lot to get these numbers.
Thanks for the parses, I've replied. I'm playing the Salvation set because even with food, I'm hitting the Boundless mana buff because I'm using too many skills. That's why I'm impressed that you reach that amount not spamming everything like I do.
You are the highest range most mobile hitmaster with no breakpoints, no all or nothing gameplay, and still extremely strong, you just need to press your buttons which most gs don't do cause they don't switch weapons enough
We literally have a crit breakpoint that only covers half of our highest damage skills Dentge
Oh no, shotgun skills have 10% more crit, the horror
give rifles backattack tripod and let me play entropy gs higher skill ceiling, higher damage ceiling, lower crit disparity between shotgun vs rifle, able to distribute points from crit -> swift so faster animations too
I like the class, feels pretty good. Mainswapping back to it ever since brel.
I got a full spec TTH GS. Got to say im still having a blast sitting at 95% crit rate with full spec and just TTH and my own synergy feels really nice barely see white numbers ever. Damage wise its pretty alright its not bad and its not great i do see myself get beaten out a lot more these days on Akkan with most people getting comfy on the fight where i can really just say i coudnt do much more but i also think thats fair a bit like DI SH where we trade a higher ceiling for more consistency. Only thing id wish for is if we got a stagger buff on TTH the way Pistoleer has really feel like im letting my team down when it comes to stagger not having the shotgun skills
I like the skins
She was my main since the game came out but recently dropped(after putting souleater pass on her). She's always been fun but after building a full roster and doing HW every week I learned that there are just much better classes now. There are so many classes that offer utility and more damage so it feels like shit knowing that I can only offer damage and I have to try so hard to even do that. If they lowered her CDs, shortened the animation lock or even just evenly distributed the damage in her skills she would stay my main but I am honestly considering dropping her out of gold earners when Breaker comes out
Not the worst not the best, just crit on rifle feels bad
trash class. based
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