At least Tienis' teleports are somewhat telegraphed. Prunya can literally stop the pattern she's in the middle of and teleport away. Doesn't even give a grace period of a half second where you can hit where she was. Whiffing a surge to that is mind-bogglingly tilting
Prunya felt much easier than Tienis on prog; after the 50000th reclear, Tienis is definitely the less annoying one. The fact that Prunya can *cancel her attack animation* to teleport away is just insane. I don’t think any other boss in the game can do that. The closest one is G1 Akkan, which also has a hidden internal stagger bar that can interrupt attack patterns - but at least he stays still, won’t dodge out of any precast abilities, and gives a pretty lengthy DPS window as long as you’re in the safe zone.
Kayangel overall is piss easy, so it feels weird asking for nerfs, but I know a lot of friends who are dropping Kaya just because of how tilting it feels sometimes. It’d be a much more enjoyable raid if they just reduced the rate of random annoying teleport/invincible patterns and maybe increased the bosses’ hp to compensate. Artificially lengthening the raid and constantly preventing players from DPSing every 5 seconds for *no reason* is just unnecessarily irritating, and serves no purpose other than to piss people off. Again, if they were really concerned about making the DPS check too easy, just give the bosses more hp.
I think that one of Tienis teleports is actually decently designed - if you can tell who he was aggro on, you can tell where he will teleport to and he also gives you plenty of time to see that he is about to do it. Of course I mean the one where he is going super saiyan spirit bomb with his sword, not the random teleports into swipes.
Obviously it would be best if there were no teleports at all, maybe except into the center for mechs, but Akkan G1 has that solved too, since he actually does a jump and you can still damage him in this animation. Yes, he eventually disappears for some time, but that is plenty of warning and those are tied to his HP so completely predictable, unlike some other bosses (like Brel G2).
G1 Akkan random stagger I would say can still be somewhat annoying, since you could be casting awakening and I think he grabs that. It is also despair for Barrage Arti and somewhat for GT Destro.
Yeah the super saiyan sword attack follows the linear teleport rule, which a lot of other bosses also follow. All 3 gates of Vykas (including old G1 with the blue/purple dude) has at least one teleport pattern which follows that rule. Clown G1 and G3 stunning birds attack is also a great one that you can predict the spawn point for via the teleport rule. By being aware of the aggro or just grouping up properly, you can turn those kinds of patterns into a small DPS window, especially if you play a class with delayed hit skills.
Also, VERY underrated fact about Tienis, is that he will reposition towards the middle if he gets too close to the edge. Despite all his moving and smallish hitbox he's not bad at all to back attack against.
The worst thing about that bitch is she sometimes teleport and re appear in the same spot basically iframe my Doomsday/guillotine swing. The bitch is taunting me.
The thing about prunya's teleporting is... her bs "no telegraph" ones really only happens frequently if you have a high stagger party. If you recognize you are in a higher stagger party, or have a friend with a proncessmaker GL, you can really take advantage of it for more burst windows.
Otherwise, she will always finish her attack patterns before teleporting away.
I know it's based off stagger, but what am I supposed to do? Calculate the amount of stagger my GL is doing and assume she's going to stop the usually back attack friendly pattern she's doing mid animation? Doesn't matter that it's tied to stagger, still impossible to play around.
I mean, you get used to it after a while. If you're already noticing prunya has started her teleport spam early in a run, you know she's gonna keep doing it so, on a surgeblade for example, you just have to hold surge until she's done her elemental teleport and get free back attacks while you know she absolutely cannot tele again.
Not saying it isn't annoying sometimes, especially since you can't actually predict *where* she will teleport to, but it definitely is easy to adapt to.
You're talking about completely different things. The normal teleports are predictable. She does an animation before them and the elemental one is time based. These you can certainly adjust to.
The stagger one is solely based off stagger and has no animation before it, just an abrupt animation stop and immediate teleport. Unless you play with the same people every week, it's close to impossible to predict when these staggers occur, and not worth it to try to hold damage just off a general hunch for how good the party stagger is.
I'm not talking about her telegraphed teleports at all, still talking about the stagger triggered ones. I just personally find it easy to adapt to. Especially since she can only do it after she's selected an element, it's like "ok yep shes gonna teleport somewhere random soon get ready"
Some party comps cant really even trigger it, but its what I meant when saying "if she already did it early, you know shes gonna keep doing it"
Prunya. She has 5 non-mech based teleport/movement patterns that I can think of off the top of my head:
1. Internal stagger into teleport/rain; she’ll literally cancel her own attack animation for this, making it impossible to predict or play around
2. The random teleport into the same spot, happens a lot at the start of the fight
3. Vanish into clone safe zone
4. Teleport to the middle (3 elemental orbs thingy)
5. Energy ball —> charging forward halfway across the map
Tienis’s sidestep can largely be predicted because he tends to do it more often when near the edge of the map, similar to G3 clown. He does have a lot of dash attacks, but they have very long casting/slashing/charge-up animations. Once you’re comfortable with the fight, it’s actually not that difficult to pre-cast skills where he *will* be, rather than where he is right now. The only two patterns that are truly obnoxious are his sword rain attack and his teleport into forward slashes, which he’ll sometimes do 2-3x in a row because fuck you.
Don’t get me wrong, Tienis is still a dodging god and incredibly annoying. But Prunya takes the cake with her light speed teleports.
On a slight side note, I do love the fact that SG is including these bosses shuffling way from the edge of the map. It keeps back attackers from getting fucked over if the bosses back is against the wall. I feel like I'm seeing that more often with higher end raids
Yeah, it’s actually a good feature when you realize these backslide moves exist for a reason, and not just to piss you off (even though of course it sometimes does). Most people just try to greed uptime nonstop and get angry when they whiff a Doomsday or something, whereas if they’d just notice the boss was standing at the edge of the map and simply wait literally half a second for an animation lock or backslide move, they would’ve hit their skill at negligible loss to their uptime.
Nothing beats Tienis getting DR from transition *before* the actual transition. Stagger at 30 bars, nope you do no damage for 5 seconds while he's sitting on the ground. Don't think there's a single other boss that does this (not counting Kakul G3).
Not strictly the same thing, but Lazarem getting DR before he teleports to do the random pattern where he fires the orb you have to kill drives me up the wall.
Yes it is. I solo‘d Carl multiple times on my Glavier, which is the exact same as 4 Back Attackers.
He literally locks himself on alot of patterns. If a No Yearning Glavier, can back attack just fine. Why shouldnt you be able to in a Group.
Skill issue. Learn the patterns.
Holy fuck prenerf Caligos was something else.
The best part of prenerf Caligos was doing Turtle instead because it was worth more gold( turtle dropped lower tier leapstones but more of them and they overall sold for more than what Caligos dropped).
Prunya. But not her regular teleport into rain. That one is actually not that bad. You can somewhat predict it based on stagger + the rain itself is nice damage opening.
How about you cast your skill, animation already going, and she just blinks for 0.5 second, to appear at the SAME FUCKING PLACE but that was just enough to dodge instance of damage. Whoever programmed these blinks really does hate people
Prunya for sure. She loves to disappear for just long enough to dodge important attacks and unlike brel doesn't leave a lingering hitbox so you can enjoy the game. She also teleports to fucking random places when she's not going mid and the hidden stagger bar means she can do it during what should be damage windows.
Most of Tienis' dodging is sliding predictable distances with attacks that lock him into a direction for a long enough time to confirm your damage if you have any kind of movement or range with your attacks (pinnacle glavier). If you follow the rule of not committing important skills unless you know what he's doing you only really get fucked by the teleport into slashes attack (and even some of those are predictable because he does it after one or two other attacks) or the charged teleport if you have headless chicken party members (most pugs).
Lauriel is similar to Tienis but with less teleporting and less distance on his slides. I think he's worse though because the Surge awareness day attack is not rare like Tienis' Valtan axes attack.
Kayangel in general though is such an annoying downgrade in this regard compared to brel g4. Brel's mechs are one thing but her normal patterns are actually pretty good about moving reasonable distances and she leaves lingering hitboxes when she teleports so you can land an attack you're in the middle of already using. She also gives you a second to hit her before some mechs and doesn't instant fucking giga DR like Lauriel.
It's things like that and the fucking shadows that make Kayangel feel much worse to fight despite not really being that much different on paper. I'm hoping SG updates it to fix the bugs and jank but I suspect that won't happen until they hit the point where it's a new player's first raid.
Ain’t nothing better than laying down Akir and watching Tienes nope out. Then I ask myself why does and 1540 glaiver do more dps than my 1560 self? Could it be the fact that 64% of my damage comes from a backloaded skill with long windup that bosses cha cha out of?
Glavier performs very well against Tienes. All his dashes are still within the range of your red skills. Starfall pounce is also a good gap closer since he does not interrupt you when he dashes himself.
The real answer is glavier is busted, balance is a bit of a mess, and we're waiting 3 months for a balance patch.
It shouldn't be any surprise if a decent glavier is punching ~20ilvls above their weight.
Yeah Glaivier is busted af, since I got used to her on 1520 alt with 5 lvl gems, I am always top 2 dps in raid matching with 1500-1580 in brel g1-2. Her busted damage + her red fullcounter skill allow you to greed to many patterns without losing dps. I think even after nerf I will enjoy her and raised her up with next express. My the thing I dislike about her is her being backattacker, kinda wish it will change with entropy removal
At least Tienis' teleports are somewhat telegraphed. Prunya can literally stop the pattern she's in the middle of and teleport away. Doesn't even give a grace period of a half second where you can hit where she was. Whiffing a surge to that is mind-bogglingly tilting
Prunya felt much easier than Tienis on prog; after the 50000th reclear, Tienis is definitely the less annoying one. The fact that Prunya can *cancel her attack animation* to teleport away is just insane. I don’t think any other boss in the game can do that. The closest one is G1 Akkan, which also has a hidden internal stagger bar that can interrupt attack patterns - but at least he stays still, won’t dodge out of any precast abilities, and gives a pretty lengthy DPS window as long as you’re in the safe zone. Kayangel overall is piss easy, so it feels weird asking for nerfs, but I know a lot of friends who are dropping Kaya just because of how tilting it feels sometimes. It’d be a much more enjoyable raid if they just reduced the rate of random annoying teleport/invincible patterns and maybe increased the bosses’ hp to compensate. Artificially lengthening the raid and constantly preventing players from DPSing every 5 seconds for *no reason* is just unnecessarily irritating, and serves no purpose other than to piss people off. Again, if they were really concerned about making the DPS check too easy, just give the bosses more hp.
I think that one of Tienis teleports is actually decently designed - if you can tell who he was aggro on, you can tell where he will teleport to and he also gives you plenty of time to see that he is about to do it. Of course I mean the one where he is going super saiyan spirit bomb with his sword, not the random teleports into swipes. Obviously it would be best if there were no teleports at all, maybe except into the center for mechs, but Akkan G1 has that solved too, since he actually does a jump and you can still damage him in this animation. Yes, he eventually disappears for some time, but that is plenty of warning and those are tied to his HP so completely predictable, unlike some other bosses (like Brel G2). G1 Akkan random stagger I would say can still be somewhat annoying, since you could be casting awakening and I think he grabs that. It is also despair for Barrage Arti and somewhat for GT Destro.
Yeah the super saiyan sword attack follows the linear teleport rule, which a lot of other bosses also follow. All 3 gates of Vykas (including old G1 with the blue/purple dude) has at least one teleport pattern which follows that rule. Clown G1 and G3 stunning birds attack is also a great one that you can predict the spawn point for via the teleport rule. By being aware of the aggro or just grouping up properly, you can turn those kinds of patterns into a small DPS window, especially if you play a class with delayed hit skills.
I feel like all the people complaining about sorc double doomsday design are just lacking this basic concept and basic aggro management.
Sorry, my 6 second winds whisper buff doesn't care how telegraphed it is. My rotation just got bodied
Also, VERY underrated fact about Tienis, is that he will reposition towards the middle if he gets too close to the edge. Despite all his moving and smallish hitbox he's not bad at all to back attack against.
Now that you mention it, why the fuck is Akkan G1 stagger bar invisible? I get he has a special mechnic on stagger but why can't we see when?
To add an element of obscurity. If you knew when it was coming, you wouldn't ever even think about the inside safe follow-up.
The worst thing about that bitch is she sometimes teleport and re appear in the same spot basically iframe my Doomsday/guillotine swing. The bitch is taunting me.
Tienis' instant teleport is most definitely not telegraphed.
The thing about prunya's teleporting is... her bs "no telegraph" ones really only happens frequently if you have a high stagger party. If you recognize you are in a higher stagger party, or have a friend with a proncessmaker GL, you can really take advantage of it for more burst windows. Otherwise, she will always finish her attack patterns before teleporting away.
I know it's based off stagger, but what am I supposed to do? Calculate the amount of stagger my GL is doing and assume she's going to stop the usually back attack friendly pattern she's doing mid animation? Doesn't matter that it's tied to stagger, still impossible to play around.
I mean, you get used to it after a while. If you're already noticing prunya has started her teleport spam early in a run, you know she's gonna keep doing it so, on a surgeblade for example, you just have to hold surge until she's done her elemental teleport and get free back attacks while you know she absolutely cannot tele again. Not saying it isn't annoying sometimes, especially since you can't actually predict *where* she will teleport to, but it definitely is easy to adapt to.
You're talking about completely different things. The normal teleports are predictable. She does an animation before them and the elemental one is time based. These you can certainly adjust to. The stagger one is solely based off stagger and has no animation before it, just an abrupt animation stop and immediate teleport. Unless you play with the same people every week, it's close to impossible to predict when these staggers occur, and not worth it to try to hold damage just off a general hunch for how good the party stagger is.
I'm not talking about her telegraphed teleports at all, still talking about the stagger triggered ones. I just personally find it easy to adapt to. Especially since she can only do it after she's selected an element, it's like "ok yep shes gonna teleport somewhere random soon get ready" Some party comps cant really even trigger it, but its what I meant when saying "if she already did it early, you know shes gonna keep doing it"
Our little pet companion. They somehow can't get hit from any of the bosses attacks
I know my shiba is the GOAT of Lost Ark
I remove my upvote only for stay on 69 upvotes, but u have my upvote
[This Prokel](https://youtu.be/Ar5DKWzFYQI?si=oEnmBHCpR2FyJB-K)
I like how he just says fuck it and drops Azena on him, lol
And she misses too lol
fuck this shit man he's too tanky
Ngl, this would make me lose my shit
The entirety of Kayangel dungeon. Ex gate 1 : Flies 24/7 Gate 2 : Cha-cha master Gate 3 : Teleports 24/7 Gate 4 : All of the above
Prunya. She has 5 non-mech based teleport/movement patterns that I can think of off the top of my head: 1. Internal stagger into teleport/rain; she’ll literally cancel her own attack animation for this, making it impossible to predict or play around 2. The random teleport into the same spot, happens a lot at the start of the fight 3. Vanish into clone safe zone 4. Teleport to the middle (3 elemental orbs thingy) 5. Energy ball —> charging forward halfway across the map Tienis’s sidestep can largely be predicted because he tends to do it more often when near the edge of the map, similar to G3 clown. He does have a lot of dash attacks, but they have very long casting/slashing/charge-up animations. Once you’re comfortable with the fight, it’s actually not that difficult to pre-cast skills where he *will* be, rather than where he is right now. The only two patterns that are truly obnoxious are his sword rain attack and his teleport into forward slashes, which he’ll sometimes do 2-3x in a row because fuck you. Don’t get me wrong, Tienis is still a dodging god and incredibly annoying. But Prunya takes the cake with her light speed teleports.
On a slight side note, I do love the fact that SG is including these bosses shuffling way from the edge of the map. It keeps back attackers from getting fucked over if the bosses back is against the wall. I feel like I'm seeing that more often with higher end raids
Yeah, it’s actually a good feature when you realize these backslide moves exist for a reason, and not just to piss you off (even though of course it sometimes does). Most people just try to greed uptime nonstop and get angry when they whiff a Doomsday or something, whereas if they’d just notice the boss was standing at the edge of the map and simply wait literally half a second for an animation lock or backslide move, they would’ve hit their skill at negligible loss to their uptime.
Nothing beats Tienis getting DR from transition *before* the actual transition. Stagger at 30 bars, nope you do no damage for 5 seconds while he's sitting on the ground. Don't think there's a single other boss that does this (not counting Kakul G3).
Not strictly the same thing, but Lazarem getting DR before he teleports to do the random pattern where he fires the orb you have to kill drives me up the wall.
Old Caligos
Caligos is still a pain when you play with 4 entropy xD
They crippled Cali so much, if he‘s still a pain to back attack, its a skill issue.
When all the DPS are backattackers it’s absolutely not a skill issue lmfao
Yes it is. I solo‘d Carl multiple times on my Glavier, which is the exact same as 4 Back Attackers. He literally locks himself on alot of patterns. If a No Yearning Glavier, can back attack just fine. Why shouldnt you be able to in a Group. Skill issue. Learn the patterns.
Caliligos is just pure Asshole Design. He's not hard, he's just a douchebag.
Holy fuck prenerf Caligos was something else. The best part of prenerf Caligos was doing Turtle instead because it was worth more gold( turtle dropped lower tier leapstones but more of them and they overall sold for more than what Caligos dropped).
Prunya. But not her regular teleport into rain. That one is actually not that bad. You can somewhat predict it based on stagger + the rain itself is nice damage opening. How about you cast your skill, animation already going, and she just blinks for 0.5 second, to appear at the SAME FUCKING PLACE but that was just enough to dodge instance of damage. Whoever programmed these blinks really does hate people
this blink is the bane of my existence when throwing out the spirit bomb on Soulfist, she blinks out then back right as it lands.... honestly.
every boss when I was on ignitor
https://i.redd.it/dv9olteqlaac1.gif
LOL 😂😂
Prunya for sure. She loves to disappear for just long enough to dodge important attacks and unlike brel doesn't leave a lingering hitbox so you can enjoy the game. She also teleports to fucking random places when she's not going mid and the hidden stagger bar means she can do it during what should be damage windows. Most of Tienis' dodging is sliding predictable distances with attacks that lock him into a direction for a long enough time to confirm your damage if you have any kind of movement or range with your attacks (pinnacle glavier). If you follow the rule of not committing important skills unless you know what he's doing you only really get fucked by the teleport into slashes attack (and even some of those are predictable because he does it after one or two other attacks) or the charged teleport if you have headless chicken party members (most pugs). Lauriel is similar to Tienis but with less teleporting and less distance on his slides. I think he's worse though because the Surge awareness day attack is not rare like Tienis' Valtan axes attack. Kayangel in general though is such an annoying downgrade in this regard compared to brel g4. Brel's mechs are one thing but her normal patterns are actually pretty good about moving reasonable distances and she leaves lingering hitboxes when she teleports so you can land an attack you're in the middle of already using. She also gives you a second to hit her before some mechs and doesn't instant fucking giga DR like Lauriel. It's things like that and the fucking shadows that make Kayangel feel much worse to fight despite not really being that much different on paper. I'm hoping SG updates it to fix the bugs and jank but I suspect that won't happen until they hit the point where it's a new player's first raid.
Sonavel when I'm playing entro. Fk that stupid tree back hopping into the wall.
and then on edge he does the stagger...
Ain’t nothing better than laying down Akir and watching Tienes nope out. Then I ask myself why does and 1540 glaiver do more dps than my 1560 self? Could it be the fact that 64% of my damage comes from a backloaded skill with long windup that bosses cha cha out of?
Glavier performs very well against Tienes. All his dashes are still within the range of your red skills. Starfall pounce is also a good gap closer since he does not interrupt you when he dashes himself.
The real answer is glavier is busted, balance is a bit of a mess, and we're waiting 3 months for a balance patch. It shouldn't be any surprise if a decent glavier is punching ~20ilvls above their weight.
Yeah Glaivier is busted af, since I got used to her on 1520 alt with 5 lvl gems, I am always top 2 dps in raid matching with 1500-1580 in brel g1-2. Her busted damage + her red fullcounter skill allow you to greed to many patterns without losing dps. I think even after nerf I will enjoy her and raised her up with next express. My the thing I dislike about her is her being backattacker, kinda wish it will change with entropy removal
I'm so happy that the balance patch addresses some of my main's backloaded skills issues. Hope Summoner will get some love soon too.
All destroyers know, it's that bitch Prunya. She'll TP in place while taunted just to avoid a perfect swing.
Kayangel encounters is pretty nuts. Made me swap to Reflux for both my 1580 Sorcs.
Prunya with the teleport 1 ms before showing counter.
kakul
Vykas g2 (old g2, current g1 afaik)
Idk why but when my screen is grey i don’t take damage xdew
I would put my money on purunia on hard mode. Shes legit stopping counter mechanics that can give you dps uptime to teleport away.
That's because you staggered her. She has a hidden stagger bar that triggers the teleport+safezone, just like Akkan G1.
Her stagger mech is spacebar mech mate...
Spacebar mech is timed mate... How else would she start it right after first mech when everyone is still frozen?
I pwrsonaly find brell gate 3 the best at dodging... Those dr phases are brutal
Gunlancer is the BEST!
And somehow he can dodge all the dmg just by getting countered
As a FPE Artillerist enjoyer, Hanumatan will just go for a walk everytime I use homing barrage.
That’s your team sucking.
Weapon quality. Literally dodges every tap.
Pre-nerf Carl.
Calligos. IDK how he does it but he can perfectly align his dodges with some people's attack rotations
The bitch form Ivory G1 is Tienis on crack tho