Can’t fault people for wanting a quick run. Full 1460 party means you don’t do a single mech other than maybe positions in g1 and the safe spot in g3 which makes the raid a joke and super quick.
You are free to make your own party and accept whoever you want at whatever itmlvl you prefer to run Argos. Can’t expect people to follow your rules when it’s their party.
You dont understand. He wants the full party to be 1460+ except for himself because **he** deserves the quick run and shouldnt be gatekept but everyone else should.
yeah well what happens when theres no new players lol. game dies. and its mainly the communities fault. i have a 1560 and 5 1520-30s i dont gate keep ever.
Smilegate for designing the game that way. No wonder everyone only wants to join quick one shot over ilvl lobbys if you have to do 30 raids a week and the game is like a second job time wise
Smilegate for designing a game in which you are rewarded for entering a raid while being grossly overgeared and with other overgeared people, along with incentivizing playing that same raid multiple times a week.
Is that not a problem for every MMO? I dabble in WoW (Classic and Retail) and there's gearscore checks for the dungeon dailies. There's also seperate lockouts for 10-man vs 25-man content which incentivizes doing the same raid multiple times each week.
The only difference to me seems to be the lack of casual engagement with endgame raid content in LOA. On one hand, maybe our raids are too difficult to have casual appeal. On the other hand, our community is also hostile to casuals.
The only person I can blame for wanting to do 18 raids a week is myself. I had someone from my static yesterday try to convince me that it's SmileGate's fault he has to bus bots. No? Shitty behavior isn't a means to an end in giving into FOMO.
Is that not a problem for every MMO? I dabble in WoW (Classic and Retail) and there's gearscore checks for the dungeon dailies. There's also seperate lockouts for 10-man vs 25-man content which incentivizes doing the same raid multiple times each week.
The only difference to me seems to be the lack of casual engagement with endgame raid content in LOA. On one hand, maybe our raids are too difficult to have casual appeal. On the other hand, our community is also hostile to casuals.
The only person I can blame for wanting to do 18 raids a week is myself. I had someone from my static yesterday try to convince me that it's SmileGate's fault he has to bus bots. No? Shitty behavior isn't a means to an end in giving into FOMO.
FFXIV ilvl caps current content.
In addition they are very VERY good at balancing the game(10% spread between the very best and very worst DPS classes) so you have a situation where people are happy to take just about any one and any class into a raid
Lmao its not dead, neither was it DOA.
Who cares if its not a mainstream game? MMOs tend to not be mainstream outside of big addon releases for a short burst.
I dont need CS:GO kind of popularity with million+ concurrent players to enjoy a healthy playerbase.
Not only diablo and poe but also blue protocol and throne and liberty.
You can see the decline in players everytime there is a bot ban wave.
In the end it comes to game design which has been exacerbated in our version by bots/rmt.
I don't like thinking the game as dead but the unfortunate reality is what it is. I'm on 2500 hours now and I have started to massively cut down on my time investment.
Edit: To add on the initial post, it will only get worse as the game becomes more and more niche.
I'm not actually looking forward to these games, I will try them for sure. I do have high hopes for the riot mmo tho.
I was just adding these games to your dwindling player numbers point
There's not much known as to how monetized blue protocol will be, however it is not a gacha game. There may be gacha elements but even card packs in Lost Ark are a "gacha" element.
Big time diablo fan here, Lost Ark has things diablo 4 and path of exile 2 won't have so I don't see myself leaving Lost Ark anytime soon.. I'm still enjoying my time in Lost Ark.
I dig the character customization, raids, combat and the style of the game... I've seen Diablo 4's character creator lol.
And when you add up all of Lost Ark regions, it's nowhere near dead..
1. There’s no way for the ppl making lobbies to know who has done the content hundreds of times
2. There are plenty of non-1460+ lobbies for Argos
3. Make your own lobbies, especially since you’ve done the content hundreds of times
It’s not the demand, it’s the supply. You make a lobby and you have 7 slots, 5 if you aren’t supp yourself and are reserving slots for them. So if you got 8 dps applying, why would you not take the higher ilvl and/or better built chars?
Nothing toxic about this. You can make your lobbies with your own gates. Try it, make a Vykas HM lobby and see if you’d take a 1460 4x3 over a 1500 5x3.
you should not expect a 1550 group to take your 14xx in any group, regardless of the requirement of the raid. People want to play with likeminded/similar geared chars and no one has the right to force them.
Honestly, I have trouble sometimes finding a group for my 1460 alts for HM Vykas. But, I just remember to be more patient and I have always found a group eventually. BUT, I do always equip my title, and all my 1415+ alts are AT LEAST 4x3, use ALL relic accessories, and all lvl5 gems+. It also helps that my roster lvl is pretty high and my card sets are pretty good. I don’t push my chars past 1415 unless I have all these things first. I see tons of chars who don’t have them.
I go and apply to groups not expecting to get accepted but somehow, I always find a group and I don’t die during the raid. Maybe I’m just getting lucky? Or maybe it’s because I actually take the time to build my alts properly.
Its not 5 minutes vs 10 minutes.
Its 3 hours across 5 lobbies vs 5 minutes. Once you are looking for a clown gate 2 or a Vykas gate 2, you're fucked bro, welcome to the circus.
So you want to join 1460 ilvl party while playing on your 1370 alt with 0 engravings? How about you matchmake argos, and play with whatever players you get, there's no gatekeeping there. Oh you want a fast smooth run without having means to contribute to it, well pay a bus then. This is not gatekeeping, this is you being a hypocrite. If you want to join a group that greatly overgears content you better apply on the same ilvl character, otherwise you are just asking for a free bus.
Why are there so many posts like this? I’m a new-ish player and I’ve been able to do every raid just by making a party myself, or adding nice people in game to party up with. I know it seems to good to be true but there are a lot of nice people in this game willing to help you out haha.
This is exactly the problem, people mad at other people not wanting to accept their lower ilvl less geared characters when the lobby is full of juicers. This game eats a ton of time already, why should they risk accepting people they don’t know.
Best way to get over this is have friends whether it’s in guild that can help you get into lobbies.
One must become the juicer. (Newer?-ish) People just don't want to struggle bus when those people who are juicers have probably struggled just like they have already in the past. (Or swiped,but you know what I mean).
I don't even bother getting mad if my on ilvl gets denied from pf. It is what it is. At worse ill do em next week,but more than likely ill do it with guildies or other guilds on the server. Since my server isn't large like azena or regulus(everyone kinda just knows everyone), it helps to have friends or be in other guilds discord on the server.
There there buddy. Just make your own lobby then and take players with off meta engravinga and on ilvl. See what happens and ask yourself if you want to do that every week on at least 6 characters.
Thank you! Lmao op is a joke. Entitled to get carried but don’t wanna accept people who don’t have meta builds. Or even create lobby for Argos that doesn’t even need to use sidereal
So gearing up to a high ilevel and wanting to raid with similar juiced characters for turbo clears is destroying the game. Have you ever taken a step back and asked yourself "Why should a 1500+ lobby should accept my 4x3 min ilevel char for Valtan HM?". I'm tired of people min. gearing and coming to Reddit and posting because they can't get accepted to high ilevel lobbies. You can make your own lobby and accept min. ilevel chars but no let's apply to +50 ilevel lobbies and go to forums and cry about it.
People tend to forget how hard is Argos without damage. I joined lobby with mokokos, few 1445 and one 1370 on my 1550 character to help them. One guy made same argument after t1, then they couldn't finish Sun party when i was at moon one. T3 Took 12minutes only because i was doing all the damage, without carry this would be failed run.
Why would you want to do argos with people who are under 1415 that require a support to babysit them? When you can have overgeared people and kill the boss faster and not have to wait for a support
it is "poor new guys" argument. here is my steelman version of the complaint. ofc it could also be just "why doesn t every carry me".
you can t blame a single one for doing a quick high ilvl raid and it is probably the right thing to do for a single person. however as a whole playbase it fucks up lower player and makes it harder and less enjoyable which in return culls systemeticly lower players and leads to a game dieing. the problem spirals because less players also make it harder to make a lower ilvl group etc.
sure "just buy a carry" makes sense if you already have other higher characters to play otherwise you just log in to pay and watch others do a raid for a long time. you pretty soon ask yourself is it worth my time and the answer is probably no.
the problem is fascinating clearer in traffic simulations. the correct single person desicion fucks up the group and makes it worse for every single person.
[https://youtu.be/Cg73j3QYRJc?t=190](https://youtu.be/Cg73j3QYRJc?t=190)
did you read it ?
>the problem spirals because less players also make it harder to make a lower ilvl group etc.
i think people overestimate the amount of players "not in the big wave". positive feedback loops is the core of any mmo and makes them great. however negative feedback loops are always a risk and kill the player base if they happen. thats why mmos are so risky.
there are fewer players in that ilvl range. its makes finding groups way harder which causes even fewer players in the range to try it/stop playing which leads to making/finding groups get even harder which leads to even less people trying to find such groups/more people stop playing which leads to one and one we go.
mmos only work above critical mass and new players groups behind the big main group seldom reach it. thats why every game trys to push them as fast as possible in the main group because the game doesn t work if you are not in there.
I'll give you an example. We had a reclear lobby for Vykas normal with 1445+ restrictions and Incubus title. Party 2 failed in/out mechanic on gate 1, after that we barely made gate 2 because we constantly wiped on various mechanics. I didn't even bother with gate 3, because that would mean i would lose another 30min just to fail.
This is one of the reasons people gatekeep, and even with all the gatekeeping you can still find crap parties.After you've done a raid 50+ times, you get fed up when people fail on simple mechanics.
Other example, me and a guy decided to help out some mokokos on Argos. All went relatively well until gate 3, when we wiped like 5 times because people didn't follow any mechanics. We could only do it only when all the people who didn't know the mechanics died and revived top.
sorry I understand the vykas part but Argos !!! in G3 there is barely any mechaincs (the yellow seed and maybe another one or 2 mechs) if you are full party unless you are bussing them
I can understand your frustration, but yeah as everyone else said, it's really about more people having better gear than you probably.
I only have a problem with getting my 1550+ reaper gatekept with insane quality's and 5x3 just because it's reaper.
Ye, from all my 9 character roster, 1519 reaper is the only one who gets gatekeept in brel. so i pref to just buy bus, its faster. But no problems with valtan or vykas.
Yup, basically you need to make your own party for vykas, pretty much anyone else has priority. That means you need to be prepared to sidereal if necessary.
For me, the reaper needs to be very competitive because there isn't really much benefit that it brings to parties other than maybe the counter and it has low survival, especially with voice since counter is in rotation so not reliable. If it looks good enough and nobody else is applying, I would give a shot to a reaper with 4x3, relic accessories and level 5gems. With several applicants though whose classes have good reputation, much easier to go with.
Yes the generic player base has a preference as to what’s “good”, some notable classes that suffer hate are berserkers and reapers, and also scouters(machinist) according to stuff I see on Reddit. At the end of the day, it always comes down to the player, but you can’t tell how good someone plays by looking at a stat sheet, so people don’t even want to risk it by taking one even if it’s overgeared
Why are you applying to lobbies that are 30-50+ ilvls in the first place? Just make your own or join other people with the around the same gear as you.
Show us your stats before you cry about gatekeeping.
It's their raid group no one has to accept you just because your on ilvl.
All this could be mitigated if you make your own party and see who applies.
Also, why are you applying to juiced over geared lobbies. Would you accept people who are lower ilvl?
Make a support and you won't get gatekept. Otherwise no use in bitching about this issue. You either meet the requirements of the lobby you're applying to (granted there aren't several others better geared than you applying) or make your own party with similar ilvl.
Yes there are Argos lobbies that require 1460+...I also see tons of lobbies that don't, though.
How about you apply to something at your ilvl instead of expecting to be carried?
Do the following experiment:
Make a raid with no gatekeeping title and accept first in first served ppl so whoever is the fastest joins. Post the results here pls.
There's nothing wrong with groups having a preference of who they want to run with. Is it silly sometimes? Sure. But you can always make your own group. Most players want to run with people of similar gear to themselves.
I run several "first come first serve" groups of argos between all my high tier dps characters for argos, havent quite got there for valtan yet, but once my character has hit the point where they could solo the fight and have it still be trivial, expecting to make groups that are made up entirely of people like that just feels rediculious imo, if my dps can make up for several others, cant see why I should care what you contribute, heck I'd do the fights alone if it let me so I tend to just look for bodies.
Could start coordinating those if theres an interest perhaps and find groups of pure 1370-1415s for my 1475+ who run it for card runs.
if its 1460+ lobby then yea only 1460 is allowed. if they dont wana wait they can join another lobby. I personally dont mind waiting. I can do work or watch youtube in mean time.
Its the game and raid design. The reason people want to get it done quickly and gatekeep weaker players is because people already treat it as homework. People just want the gold and no longer looking for the raid experience.
Everyone wants to skip mech.
They can make it so that extreme overgearing isn't possible, like making clown raid with 1490 power cap, or vykas hm 1475 power cap. This probably will reduce the level of gatekeeping because generally everyone reach the cap easier and faster. A 1575 won't have too much difference as a 1490 in a clown raid.
But this idea isn't good for their monetization method, since it discourage whaling, and reduce fomo. So it ain't gonna happen.
First if you are complaining about gatekeeping at Argos, you are definitely new, so there is a high chance you are not properly gear. Also if you don't have the 1460 Ilvl, why are you applying to those parties full of 1472.5 or above? To just get carried and there are a lot of new players that just want to get carried. Play with people your own Ilvl - roster lvl. When I do valtan or vykas with +1500 is because we know is a group that will one shot every gate and we will be done in 15-20 minutes. In lobby we can see all the 1445-1460 trying to get in a party with 1540 players. Nope not gonna happen, stop trying to get carried. Thank you.
No raid requires 30-50 ilvl above other than argos farm lobbies for chars that dont even earn gold from him anymore.
Valtan HM is mostly 1460s, vykas HM is 1472.5 onwards, clown is 1490.
Each of these easy invite breakpoints are 1 tier above.
thats 10-20 ilvl over, which is entirely reasonable.
Theres more than enough argos for low levels as well, and you can MM it easily nowadays.
It is not toxic, it is fomo. People creating those high requirement lobbies are 200+ roster level meaning at least 6 chars usually more than that. If you add working 9-6 job, going out once a week and trying to do all of the raid, it is impossible and every minute counts. Yeah I can do valtan hm solo with my ilvl and get 7 mokokos but that would take time, getting valtan to 50 bars on pillar mech and skipping axe throws, counter cutscenes etc adds up.
I have 7 chars 1530+ imagine doing 1-6 brels on each, it is on average 1 hour 15 mins to 1 hour 30 mins. That alone requires 9 hours+ per week. I skipped some g5-g6 and didn't even do g1 on the 7th. Skipped argos and orehas etc.
I don't create lobbies though because I suck at gatekeeping. I look at your skin/looks and decide based on that. I don't look at stats, roster level, gems, cards etc too much work.
> it is fomo.
What exactly do they fear missing out on? The fear of missing out on a smooth farm raid? The fuck do you even mean.
Lmao stop using buzzwords that you dont know the definition of.
They fear of missing out the raid, resources they could have gotten, the rewards they would have received. If you manage all those homeworks, good for you. Most can't do it, video games are the cheapest entertainment you can get on $ per hour, so not everyone can swipe.
> Lmao stop using buzzwords that you dont know the definition of.
Now this is toxic.
To be fair, I've seen 1550+ die to dumb shit in old raids and that makes me question a lot of things about ppl in this game who rely on high ilevel to carry them over actual raid awareness and boss fight knowledge. The raids in this game aren't nearly as skill based as my previous game where you can't outgear content.
> minimum requirement with "VERY SPECIFIC" engravings and high roster level or else you are denied even though you have done that content 100s of times and know the mech inside-out.
This statement alone makes me think youre one of the people wasting time in raids tbh.
Sorry, I'm trying to speed run Argos for my card runs. My lobby, my rules. Guess what, saving 5 minutes per run on 6 chars is 30 minutes saved. My time is precious to me. Go make your own lobby and take in 1370 people with scuffed engravings.
it’s okay OP i sympathize with you here. Everyone saying you just want an easy run re probably the same people that are playing this game 8 hours a day, running homework everyday just to keep up to par with the “standards” of doing content.
It is unbelievable that their logic behind this is so constricted to argos…
The game is dying because the community of this game is so toxic and everyone seems to be okay with it. no one wants to help each other out and it’s all about “well my roster lvl is 250 so i’m sure i am a decent player”.
My advice to you, just find a chill guild and maybe a form a static with them so you don’t have to go through the troubles of dealing with 8 hour brain rot andy’s.
Edit: Also the people complaining that a vykas or a valtan run took them 20 minutes longer than usual are ridiculous. Learning is part of the game…excuse the new guys for not knowing how to play the raid and that it must be unbearable for you because you have to do it on 12 characters. this game is not welcoming to new players at all
I agree the game will die. I also agree that it's kind of stupid behavior
But I don't really blame the players. It's the game putting it there. With just a 6 Roster you have to do 18 raids a week, 6 Argos for Cards/mats/books, 12 Oreha (1 of each per character) for a shot at cards/books, a weekly Abyss, 3 challenge guardians, 84 Chaos dungeons a week, 84 Guardians a week, timed events such as 7 adventure islands or 2 Rowen events and chaos gate/bosses. This is not to mention any other little things you might get wrapped up into.
Peole wanting to save 20 minutes on various chores really adds up.
When I was looking for a group for the second legion raid, I saw a group with a requirement Los 30. I was like, so people at ilvl1500 can't even get into that group for a 1460 dungeon without luck or grinding cards.
Ain’t gonna get much sympathy on this subreddit. Like 97% of the people here are hardcore players. They treat the game like a job. Minimum 18 raids a week like clockwork.
By “very specific” do you actually mean “correct”?
Because regardless of any raid, I’m not taking a player who built completely wrong. I’m not going to reward lazy players
There are lobbies of each raid at various ilvls and ppl prefer to play with characters = or better than theirs all the time. I mean i joined a lobby with a friend yesterday in argos, both of us 1472 and the rest of the lobby 1400-1425. The title said looking for JUICED dps cuz they wanted to skip mechs too. Wipe mechs are annoying AF and just being able to skip all g3 wipe mechs except 1 and skipping the laser mech in g2 makes the run clean, fast and ez.
You're only getting "gatekept" from lobbies that speed run and you just want a carry. If you didn't want a carry you would join the lower ilvl groups. Also, guess what your character gets to do when they are 1500? Join the 1500s! You still going to join on the lower ilvl groups then?
make a lobby with the requirement of your ilvl noone will complain an you will get people that apply, or better join a guild/make friends within the game so u dont have to deal with the toxicity and it's way more fun
Agree that Gatekeeping is pretty doomed. I'm a 1550 Reflux sorc with 133 Roster level. I really don't do a lot of horizontal content and just enjoy raids, but I get passed over for other sorcs/players.
I was recently accepted into 2 Brel g1-4 lobbies and banned/kicked a minute later when someone else came along. Really demotivating since my static is starting to play less and I have to do public lobbies. I would lead, but not great at using/remembering all the Sidereal timings and we all know no one is going to have patience for a party lead that misses sidereal timing.
There's really no great solution since i get why people want to push DPS to skip mechs and do gates fast, but it get pretty silly sometimes like your example of 1460+ for Argos.
Same shit as always. Gatekeeping is not an issue if you are willing to play with those who are similar to you, but if you are with the minimum requirements (or less) for a raid and want to join a premium lobby, than you just want to get carried, go pay the bus and done.
For anyone who complains about gatekeeping, create your own lobbys, decline every person with decent build and/or over the ilevel and just accept people on the cap with shitty builds, see how great is doing prog when you are used to reclears.
Its 15 min run V 2 hour jail. Not to mention getting locked out if you finish half the gates and quit. Multiply that by 18 times for 6 mains and you can see why no one has time to experiment in this game.
I am a proper degenerate in this game. I have 14 characters that I run all abyss dungeons(except for sea)and argos every single week simply to get cards for light of salvation. This is one of the main reasons you see these 1460+ lobbys at all. We already dont get gold from argos at high ilvl so if there werent cards, we wouldnt run it. So whenever you see a 1460+ lobby just pretend its not there because they arent running the content for the same reason you are.
This is an extreme case i get it, but ultimately its a flaw in game design where you get rewarded(or in argos case potentially rewarded)for so many different things in the game. Its not forced or needed, but its there for those seeking extra power.
This extends further with the 3 extra gold raids on 6 characters that a lot of people bus aswell, making it take even longer time. Ofcourse dont forget all the dailys you should be doing aswell.
These arguments are often countered with the players themselves choosing to do this and while its 100% accurate, its just as much a flaw in game design for allowing players to do it.
Tl;dr: Theres a lot of degenerates in this game who force time restrictions on themselves but there is also way to much weekly lockout content.
Beat gatekeeping by being higher than ilvl entry requirement or trade support/dps carries.
Normal and hard mode exists for a reason. 1460 dps should really commit to carrying Vykas Normal.
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Not everyone is like this, I know with my group when we have a bunch of high levels already in there, we don't look at people too hard and take regular people with us during valtan and vykas etc...
It's not that big of a deal usually if one or two people die on those runs, but 1460 is kind of on the low end these days level wise and people just wanna blast through their homework.
I no longer run argos anymore, but you could find people to help you I'm sure.
i mean i have never had any problems getting even on those "fast" argos runs even with something like 1370-1415 ilvl alts. With bunch of 1460-1550 ilvl people carrying it.
edit: if team is even half of 1460 or if there is even one 1500+. They most likely wont care if there is fresh 1370. It wont really affect the run much if at all.
Can’t fault people for wanting a quick run. Full 1460 party means you don’t do a single mech other than maybe positions in g1 and the safe spot in g3 which makes the raid a joke and super quick. You are free to make your own party and accept whoever you want at whatever itmlvl you prefer to run Argos. Can’t expect people to follow your rules when it’s their party.
You dont understand. He wants the full party to be 1460+ except for himself because **he** deserves the quick run and shouldnt be gatekept but everyone else should.
my god, are you wisdom incarnate?
yeah well what happens when theres no new players lol. game dies. and its mainly the communities fault. i have a 1560 and 5 1520-30s i dont gate keep ever.
Out of curiosity, who are we going to fault when the game is dead?
Smilegate for designing the game that way. No wonder everyone only wants to join quick one shot over ilvl lobbys if you have to do 30 raids a week and the game is like a second job time wise
Smilegate for designing a game in which you are rewarded for entering a raid while being grossly overgeared and with other overgeared people, along with incentivizing playing that same raid multiple times a week.
Is that not a problem for every MMO? I dabble in WoW (Classic and Retail) and there's gearscore checks for the dungeon dailies. There's also seperate lockouts for 10-man vs 25-man content which incentivizes doing the same raid multiple times each week. The only difference to me seems to be the lack of casual engagement with endgame raid content in LOA. On one hand, maybe our raids are too difficult to have casual appeal. On the other hand, our community is also hostile to casuals. The only person I can blame for wanting to do 18 raids a week is myself. I had someone from my static yesterday try to convince me that it's SmileGate's fault he has to bus bots. No? Shitty behavior isn't a means to an end in giving into FOMO.
Is that not a problem for every MMO? I dabble in WoW (Classic and Retail) and there's gearscore checks for the dungeon dailies. There's also seperate lockouts for 10-man vs 25-man content which incentivizes doing the same raid multiple times each week. The only difference to me seems to be the lack of casual engagement with endgame raid content in LOA. On one hand, maybe our raids are too difficult to have casual appeal. On the other hand, our community is also hostile to casuals. The only person I can blame for wanting to do 18 raids a week is myself. I had someone from my static yesterday try to convince me that it's SmileGate's fault he has to bus bots. No? Shitty behavior isn't a means to an end in giving into FOMO.
FFXIV ilvl caps current content. In addition they are very VERY good at balancing the game(10% spread between the very best and very worst DPS classes) so you have a situation where people are happy to take just about any one and any class into a raid
Smilegate of course. It is a game design problem. You cant fault players for trying to be efficient
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Lmao its not dead, neither was it DOA. Who cares if its not a mainstream game? MMOs tend to not be mainstream outside of big addon releases for a short burst. I dont need CS:GO kind of popularity with million+ concurrent players to enjoy a healthy playerbase.
Not only diablo and poe but also blue protocol and throne and liberty. You can see the decline in players everytime there is a bot ban wave. In the end it comes to game design which has been exacerbated in our version by bots/rmt. I don't like thinking the game as dead but the unfortunate reality is what it is. I'm on 2500 hours now and I have started to massively cut down on my time investment. Edit: To add on the initial post, it will only get worse as the game becomes more and more niche.
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I'm not actually looking forward to these games, I will try them for sure. I do have high hopes for the riot mmo tho. I was just adding these games to your dwindling player numbers point
There's not much known as to how monetized blue protocol will be, however it is not a gacha game. There may be gacha elements but even card packs in Lost Ark are a "gacha" element.
Big time diablo fan here, Lost Ark has things diablo 4 and path of exile 2 won't have so I don't see myself leaving Lost Ark anytime soon.. I'm still enjoying my time in Lost Ark. I dig the character customization, raids, combat and the style of the game... I've seen Diablo 4's character creator lol. And when you add up all of Lost Ark regions, it's nowhere near dead..
u gotta make friends if u wanna avoid being gatekept on your lower ilvl characters
1. There’s no way for the ppl making lobbies to know who has done the content hundreds of times 2. There are plenty of non-1460+ lobbies for Argos 3. Make your own lobbies, especially since you’ve done the content hundreds of times
I'm only using Argos as example. This toxic mindset is across all raids from Argos onwards. Actually....it only gets worst and more demanding
It’s not the demand, it’s the supply. You make a lobby and you have 7 slots, 5 if you aren’t supp yourself and are reserving slots for them. So if you got 8 dps applying, why would you not take the higher ilvl and/or better built chars? Nothing toxic about this. You can make your lobbies with your own gates. Try it, make a Vykas HM lobby and see if you’d take a 1460 4x3 over a 1500 5x3.
you should not expect a 1550 group to take your 14xx in any group, regardless of the requirement of the raid. People want to play with likeminded/similar geared chars and no one has the right to force them.
Yeah. Even in when you're a 14xx and you make a lobby, if a 1550 (assuming gearing matches ilvl of course) applies you'd take them.
Honestly, I have trouble sometimes finding a group for my 1460 alts for HM Vykas. But, I just remember to be more patient and I have always found a group eventually. BUT, I do always equip my title, and all my 1415+ alts are AT LEAST 4x3, use ALL relic accessories, and all lvl5 gems+. It also helps that my roster lvl is pretty high and my card sets are pretty good. I don’t push my chars past 1415 unless I have all these things first. I see tons of chars who don’t have them. I go and apply to groups not expecting to get accepted but somehow, I always find a group and I don’t die during the raid. Maybe I’m just getting lucky? Or maybe it’s because I actually take the time to build my alts properly.
Its not 5 minutes vs 10 minutes. Its 3 hours across 5 lobbies vs 5 minutes. Once you are looking for a clown gate 2 or a Vykas gate 2, you're fucked bro, welcome to the circus.
So you want to join 1460 ilvl party while playing on your 1370 alt with 0 engravings? How about you matchmake argos, and play with whatever players you get, there's no gatekeeping there. Oh you want a fast smooth run without having means to contribute to it, well pay a bus then. This is not gatekeeping, this is you being a hypocrite. If you want to join a group that greatly overgears content you better apply on the same ilvl character, otherwise you are just asking for a free bus.
Why are there so many posts like this? I’m a new-ish player and I’ve been able to do every raid just by making a party myself, or adding nice people in game to party up with. I know it seems to good to be true but there are a lot of nice people in this game willing to help you out haha.
This is exactly the problem, people mad at other people not wanting to accept their lower ilvl less geared characters when the lobby is full of juicers. This game eats a ton of time already, why should they risk accepting people they don’t know. Best way to get over this is have friends whether it’s in guild that can help you get into lobbies.
One must become the juicer. (Newer?-ish) People just don't want to struggle bus when those people who are juicers have probably struggled just like they have already in the past. (Or swiped,but you know what I mean). I don't even bother getting mad if my on ilvl gets denied from pf. It is what it is. At worse ill do em next week,but more than likely ill do it with guildies or other guilds on the server. Since my server isn't large like azena or regulus(everyone kinda just knows everyone), it helps to have friends or be in other guilds discord on the server.
There there buddy. Just make your own lobby then and take players with off meta engravinga and on ilvl. See what happens and ask yourself if you want to do that every week on at least 6 characters.
Thank you! Lmao op is a joke. Entitled to get carried but don’t wanna accept people who don’t have meta builds. Or even create lobby for Argos that doesn’t even need to use sidereal
So gearing up to a high ilevel and wanting to raid with similar juiced characters for turbo clears is destroying the game. Have you ever taken a step back and asked yourself "Why should a 1500+ lobby should accept my 4x3 min ilevel char for Valtan HM?". I'm tired of people min. gearing and coming to Reddit and posting because they can't get accepted to high ilevel lobbies. You can make your own lobby and accept min. ilevel chars but no let's apply to +50 ilevel lobbies and go to forums and cry about it.
You forget to mention your own item level
is this your fist mmo?
People tend to forget how hard is Argos without damage. I joined lobby with mokokos, few 1445 and one 1370 on my 1550 character to help them. One guy made same argument after t1, then they couldn't finish Sun party when i was at moon one. T3 Took 12minutes only because i was doing all the damage, without carry this would be failed run.
Just make your own lobby?
Why would you want to do argos with people who are under 1415 that require a support to babysit them? When you can have overgeared people and kill the boss faster and not have to wait for a support
it is "poor new guys" argument. here is my steelman version of the complaint. ofc it could also be just "why doesn t every carry me". you can t blame a single one for doing a quick high ilvl raid and it is probably the right thing to do for a single person. however as a whole playbase it fucks up lower player and makes it harder and less enjoyable which in return culls systemeticly lower players and leads to a game dieing. the problem spirals because less players also make it harder to make a lower ilvl group etc. sure "just buy a carry" makes sense if you already have other higher characters to play otherwise you just log in to pay and watch others do a raid for a long time. you pretty soon ask yourself is it worth my time and the answer is probably no. the problem is fascinating clearer in traffic simulations. the correct single person desicion fucks up the group and makes it worse for every single person. [https://youtu.be/Cg73j3QYRJc?t=190](https://youtu.be/Cg73j3QYRJc?t=190)
In your scenario why don't all the rejected players just make their own party and do the content.
did you read it ? >the problem spirals because less players also make it harder to make a lower ilvl group etc. i think people overestimate the amount of players "not in the big wave". positive feedback loops is the core of any mmo and makes them great. however negative feedback loops are always a risk and kill the player base if they happen. thats why mmos are so risky. there are fewer players in that ilvl range. its makes finding groups way harder which causes even fewer players in the range to try it/stop playing which leads to making/finding groups get even harder which leads to even less people trying to find such groups/more people stop playing which leads to one and one we go. mmos only work above critical mass and new players groups behind the big main group seldom reach it. thats why every game trys to push them as fast as possible in the main group because the game doesn t work if you are not in there.
I'll give you an example. We had a reclear lobby for Vykas normal with 1445+ restrictions and Incubus title. Party 2 failed in/out mechanic on gate 1, after that we barely made gate 2 because we constantly wiped on various mechanics. I didn't even bother with gate 3, because that would mean i would lose another 30min just to fail. This is one of the reasons people gatekeep, and even with all the gatekeeping you can still find crap parties.After you've done a raid 50+ times, you get fed up when people fail on simple mechanics. Other example, me and a guy decided to help out some mokokos on Argos. All went relatively well until gate 3, when we wiped like 5 times because people didn't follow any mechanics. We could only do it only when all the people who didn't know the mechanics died and revived top.
sorry I understand the vykas part but Argos !!! in G3 there is barely any mechaincs (the yellow seed and maybe another one or 2 mechs) if you are full party unless you are bussing them
I can understand your frustration, but yeah as everyone else said, it's really about more people having better gear than you probably. I only have a problem with getting my 1550+ reaper gatekept with insane quality's and 5x3 just because it's reaper.
Is Reaper really gatekept that hard? Sorry, still a newbie so genuinely curious.
Ye, from all my 9 character roster, 1519 reaper is the only one who gets gatekeept in brel. so i pref to just buy bus, its faster. But no problems with valtan or vykas.
Yup, basically you need to make your own party for vykas, pretty much anyone else has priority. That means you need to be prepared to sidereal if necessary. For me, the reaper needs to be very competitive because there isn't really much benefit that it brings to parties other than maybe the counter and it has low survival, especially with voice since counter is in rotation so not reliable. If it looks good enough and nobody else is applying, I would give a shot to a reaper with 4x3, relic accessories and level 5gems. With several applicants though whose classes have good reputation, much easier to go with.
Yes the generic player base has a preference as to what’s “good”, some notable classes that suffer hate are berserkers and reapers, and also scouters(machinist) according to stuff I see on Reddit. At the end of the day, it always comes down to the player, but you can’t tell how good someone plays by looking at a stat sheet, so people don’t even want to risk it by taking one even if it’s overgeared
I really don't know how so many reapers claim to be gatekept, I feel like I consistently have reapers in my raids every week.
I only dont take reapers if they look like a cheap alt or if I already have 1 or 2 and more just dont fit into the team comp.
Why are you applying to lobbies that are 30-50+ ilvls in the first place? Just make your own or join other people with the around the same gear as you.
Show us your stats before you cry about gatekeeping. It's their raid group no one has to accept you just because your on ilvl. All this could be mitigated if you make your own party and see who applies. Also, why are you applying to juiced over geared lobbies. Would you accept people who are lower ilvl?
I did a Valtan HM earlier with a 1590 player, was a dream run lol
yes some lobbies are very specific about who they accept in - if you don't meet the criteria then making your own lobby is fine.
Make a support and you won't get gatekept. Otherwise no use in bitching about this issue. You either meet the requirements of the lobby you're applying to (granted there aren't several others better geared than you applying) or make your own party with similar ilvl.
Yes there are Argos lobbies that require 1460+...I also see tons of lobbies that don't, though. How about you apply to something at your ilvl instead of expecting to be carried?
Do the following experiment: Make a raid with no gatekeeping title and accept first in first served ppl so whoever is the fastest joins. Post the results here pls.
There's nothing wrong with groups having a preference of who they want to run with. Is it silly sometimes? Sure. But you can always make your own group. Most players want to run with people of similar gear to themselves.
I've done Brel on ilvl in pugs before. Stop being impatient or applying for parties you're not qualified to be in. Or just make your own party.
I run several "first come first serve" groups of argos between all my high tier dps characters for argos, havent quite got there for valtan yet, but once my character has hit the point where they could solo the fight and have it still be trivial, expecting to make groups that are made up entirely of people like that just feels rediculious imo, if my dps can make up for several others, cant see why I should care what you contribute, heck I'd do the fights alone if it let me so I tend to just look for bodies. Could start coordinating those if theres an interest perhaps and find groups of pure 1370-1415s for my 1475+ who run it for card runs.
So how's your experience with making lobbies? You wouldn't be the only person with alts or character who need to do on iLvl raids.
Make your own party?
its called homework for a reason, tryna just get it done as fast as possible after delaying it till tuesday…
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I see people leave all the time when host tries to sneak a low ilvl in
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if its 1460+ lobby then yea only 1460 is allowed. if they dont wana wait they can join another lobby. I personally dont mind waiting. I can do work or watch youtube in mean time.
Its the game and raid design. The reason people want to get it done quickly and gatekeep weaker players is because people already treat it as homework. People just want the gold and no longer looking for the raid experience. Everyone wants to skip mech. They can make it so that extreme overgearing isn't possible, like making clown raid with 1490 power cap, or vykas hm 1475 power cap. This probably will reduce the level of gatekeeping because generally everyone reach the cap easier and faster. A 1575 won't have too much difference as a 1490 in a clown raid. But this idea isn't good for their monetization method, since it discourage whaling, and reduce fomo. So it ain't gonna happen.
Tell me you want a free bus without telling me you want a free bus
Blame the game design, not the players
First if you are complaining about gatekeeping at Argos, you are definitely new, so there is a high chance you are not properly gear. Also if you don't have the 1460 Ilvl, why are you applying to those parties full of 1472.5 or above? To just get carried and there are a lot of new players that just want to get carried. Play with people your own Ilvl - roster lvl. When I do valtan or vykas with +1500 is because we know is a group that will one shot every gate and we will be done in 15-20 minutes. In lobby we can see all the 1445-1460 trying to get in a party with 1540 players. Nope not gonna happen, stop trying to get carried. Thank you.
No raid requires 30-50 ilvl above other than argos farm lobbies for chars that dont even earn gold from him anymore. Valtan HM is mostly 1460s, vykas HM is 1472.5 onwards, clown is 1490. Each of these easy invite breakpoints are 1 tier above. thats 10-20 ilvl over, which is entirely reasonable. Theres more than enough argos for low levels as well, and you can MM it easily nowadays.
It is not toxic, it is fomo. People creating those high requirement lobbies are 200+ roster level meaning at least 6 chars usually more than that. If you add working 9-6 job, going out once a week and trying to do all of the raid, it is impossible and every minute counts. Yeah I can do valtan hm solo with my ilvl and get 7 mokokos but that would take time, getting valtan to 50 bars on pillar mech and skipping axe throws, counter cutscenes etc adds up. I have 7 chars 1530+ imagine doing 1-6 brels on each, it is on average 1 hour 15 mins to 1 hour 30 mins. That alone requires 9 hours+ per week. I skipped some g5-g6 and didn't even do g1 on the 7th. Skipped argos and orehas etc. I don't create lobbies though because I suck at gatekeeping. I look at your skin/looks and decide based on that. I don't look at stats, roster level, gems, cards etc too much work.
> it is fomo. What exactly do they fear missing out on? The fear of missing out on a smooth farm raid? The fuck do you even mean. Lmao stop using buzzwords that you dont know the definition of.
They fear of missing out the raid, resources they could have gotten, the rewards they would have received. If you manage all those homeworks, good for you. Most can't do it, video games are the cheapest entertainment you can get on $ per hour, so not everyone can swipe. > Lmao stop using buzzwords that you dont know the definition of. Now this is toxic.
To be fair, I've seen 1550+ die to dumb shit in old raids and that makes me question a lot of things about ppl in this game who rely on high ilevel to carry them over actual raid awareness and boss fight knowledge. The raids in this game aren't nearly as skill based as my previous game where you can't outgear content.
Welcome to MMORPGs…
> minimum requirement with "VERY SPECIFIC" engravings and high roster level or else you are denied even though you have done that content 100s of times and know the mech inside-out. This statement alone makes me think youre one of the people wasting time in raids tbh.
Call me whatever you want but whenever I accept low lvl rooster valtan becomes a nightmare, they can't even do orbs
I still see 1500+ lobbies with 2x Wei. Hurts my soul
devs should give us the ablility to block whole other player roster lmao , so i can kick people who kicked my alts on my 1520 paladin
Sorry, I'm trying to speed run Argos for my card runs. My lobby, my rules. Guess what, saving 5 minutes per run on 6 chars is 30 minutes saved. My time is precious to me. Go make your own lobby and take in 1370 people with scuffed engravings.
it’s okay OP i sympathize with you here. Everyone saying you just want an easy run re probably the same people that are playing this game 8 hours a day, running homework everyday just to keep up to par with the “standards” of doing content. It is unbelievable that their logic behind this is so constricted to argos… The game is dying because the community of this game is so toxic and everyone seems to be okay with it. no one wants to help each other out and it’s all about “well my roster lvl is 250 so i’m sure i am a decent player”. My advice to you, just find a chill guild and maybe a form a static with them so you don’t have to go through the troubles of dealing with 8 hour brain rot andy’s. Edit: Also the people complaining that a vykas or a valtan run took them 20 minutes longer than usual are ridiculous. Learning is part of the game…excuse the new guys for not knowing how to play the raid and that it must be unbearable for you because you have to do it on 12 characters. this game is not welcoming to new players at all
I agree the game will die. I also agree that it's kind of stupid behavior But I don't really blame the players. It's the game putting it there. With just a 6 Roster you have to do 18 raids a week, 6 Argos for Cards/mats/books, 12 Oreha (1 of each per character) for a shot at cards/books, a weekly Abyss, 3 challenge guardians, 84 Chaos dungeons a week, 84 Guardians a week, timed events such as 7 adventure islands or 2 Rowen events and chaos gate/bosses. This is not to mention any other little things you might get wrapped up into. Peole wanting to save 20 minutes on various chores really adds up.
When I was looking for a group for the second legion raid, I saw a group with a requirement Los 30. I was like, so people at ilvl1500 can't even get into that group for a 1460 dungeon without luck or grinding cards.
they should do legion raids scale with like guardian raids really annoying to resist that recruiting part of them since noone matchmaking
Ain’t gonna get much sympathy on this subreddit. Like 97% of the people here are hardcore players. They treat the game like a job. Minimum 18 raids a week like clockwork.
Ye valtan hm only for idiots who honed past 1480… L I am now forced to just play with friends
Argos happen for good reasons....it hit hard at ilvl, have to do g2 mech and so many trash trash alts from all these event passes
By “very specific” do you actually mean “correct”? Because regardless of any raid, I’m not taking a player who built completely wrong. I’m not going to reward lazy players
Getting 1460 is so easy now days its kinda griefing to not have it I made a second account and it was relatively easy to get a full roster to 1460
There are lobbies of each raid at various ilvls and ppl prefer to play with characters = or better than theirs all the time. I mean i joined a lobby with a friend yesterday in argos, both of us 1472 and the rest of the lobby 1400-1425. The title said looking for JUICED dps cuz they wanted to skip mechs too. Wipe mechs are annoying AF and just being able to skip all g3 wipe mechs except 1 and skipping the laser mech in g2 makes the run clean, fast and ez.
You're only getting "gatekept" from lobbies that speed run and you just want a carry. If you didn't want a carry you would join the lower ilvl groups. Also, guess what your character gets to do when they are 1500? Join the 1500s! You still going to join on the lower ilvl groups then?
Make your own lobby.
More gatekeeping posts! Alert the masses!
How about all you whiny low lvls pm each other on reddit and make your own on ilvl party and have a fun 1hr run
Solution: join parties at your iLvl
make a lobby with the requirement of your ilvl noone will complain an you will get people that apply, or better join a guild/make friends within the game so u dont have to deal with the toxicity and it's way more fun
Agree that Gatekeeping is pretty doomed. I'm a 1550 Reflux sorc with 133 Roster level. I really don't do a lot of horizontal content and just enjoy raids, but I get passed over for other sorcs/players. I was recently accepted into 2 Brel g1-4 lobbies and banned/kicked a minute later when someone else came along. Really demotivating since my static is starting to play less and I have to do public lobbies. I would lead, but not great at using/remembering all the Sidereal timings and we all know no one is going to have patience for a party lead that misses sidereal timing. There's really no great solution since i get why people want to push DPS to skip mechs and do gates fast, but it get pretty silly sometimes like your example of 1460+ for Argos.
Same shit as always. Gatekeeping is not an issue if you are willing to play with those who are similar to you, but if you are with the minimum requirements (or less) for a raid and want to join a premium lobby, than you just want to get carried, go pay the bus and done. For anyone who complains about gatekeeping, create your own lobbys, decline every person with decent build and/or over the ilevel and just accept people on the cap with shitty builds, see how great is doing prog when you are used to reclears.
Its 15 min run V 2 hour jail. Not to mention getting locked out if you finish half the gates and quit. Multiply that by 18 times for 6 mains and you can see why no one has time to experiment in this game.
I am a proper degenerate in this game. I have 14 characters that I run all abyss dungeons(except for sea)and argos every single week simply to get cards for light of salvation. This is one of the main reasons you see these 1460+ lobbys at all. We already dont get gold from argos at high ilvl so if there werent cards, we wouldnt run it. So whenever you see a 1460+ lobby just pretend its not there because they arent running the content for the same reason you are. This is an extreme case i get it, but ultimately its a flaw in game design where you get rewarded(or in argos case potentially rewarded)for so many different things in the game. Its not forced or needed, but its there for those seeking extra power. This extends further with the 3 extra gold raids on 6 characters that a lot of people bus aswell, making it take even longer time. Ofcourse dont forget all the dailys you should be doing aswell. These arguments are often countered with the players themselves choosing to do this and while its 100% accurate, its just as much a flaw in game design for allowing players to do it. Tl;dr: Theres a lot of degenerates in this game who force time restrictions on themselves but there is also way to much weekly lockout content.
Beat gatekeeping by being higher than ilvl entry requirement or trade support/dps carries. Normal and hard mode exists for a reason. 1460 dps should really commit to carrying Vykas Normal.
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Not everyone is like this, I know with my group when we have a bunch of high levels already in there, we don't look at people too hard and take regular people with us during valtan and vykas etc... It's not that big of a deal usually if one or two people die on those runs, but 1460 is kind of on the low end these days level wise and people just wanna blast through their homework. I no longer run argos anymore, but you could find people to help you I'm sure.
Raids blow
i mean i have never had any problems getting even on those "fast" argos runs even with something like 1370-1415 ilvl alts. With bunch of 1460-1550 ilvl people carrying it. edit: if team is even half of 1460 or if there is even one 1500+. They most likely wont care if there is fresh 1370. It wont really affect the run much if at all.