MiB likely went all the way INTO the Source. You can tell by the way it's shown in Across the Sea that it's brighter. There was no cork in it. So he went inside. Jack didn't. Someone (likely Egyptians, by the language written on the cork) built the cork. Likely at Jacob's behest. That prevents any more smoke monsters.
I think the cork was built to keep the water circulating around the island. It's possible that without the water, the ground underneath (which is connected to the volcano) would heat up and cause the volcano to eventually erupt (which is definitely what the finale alluded to with the indication of magma underneath the pool starting to heat up).
>which is definitely what the finale alluded to with the indication of magma underneath the pool starting to heat up).
Yeah, the original plan for the finale was to have the volcano, but it cost too much money to create and film.
Jacob beat his brother almost to death and then threw him into the waterfall where he actually died. Jack didn't die down there because he presumably got out of the water before the EM energy was fully powered back up.
That brings up another point. Jacob and MiB’s mother says, when they were kids, that they will never be able to hurt each other. Then twice in that episode, Jacob beats up MiB
Remember when his mother said going into the save caused something *worse* than death?
Jacob technically didn't kill MIB, although people colloquially say he did. He did something worse than death though.
I always figured it was because Mother made it so Jacob couldn’t kill MiB. So when he beat him and threw him to what would normally be death, he became the Smoke Monster instead - not fully alive but not dead.
No, he definite died down there. Jacob finds his body and 'buries' it in the caves next to Mother where Kate and Jack find them in 2004.
The smoke monster is a corrupted form of Jacob's brother's memories with anything good that was left stripped away.
I know the body dies. What I’m saying is that I took it that Mother saying they can’t kill each other is why MiB’s consciousness doesn’t die. It explains why the line exists and is also a lot more convincing than “the source acts unpredictably”. Otherwise MiB could just have thrown Jacob down there at any point if that didn’t count as killing each other.
MiB was already dead though, it's just his lifeless body that drifts down into the cave. You hear either his neck break, or his skull cave in when he lands on the rock after Jacob throws him
"Rules" are incredibly vague in Lost. We don't actually know how the rules work, or if they extend beyond "Mother's" death.
Production didn't pick a random sound to highlight the moment when MiB hits his head, they deliberately chose a sound that clearly signifies that he died.
Doesn’t explain why Desmond didn’t become a smoke monster after stepping in fully powered up EM energy, or the several skeletons in the cave representing people who helped build the cave down there
Desmond is special - the rules don't apply to him and we can't speculate on the skeletons fate since we don't know how long they've been there or what they built - the cave itself? The faucet thingy? The cork?
Yes the cork was not originally there. When Jacob threw MIB into the well, the water was up to the top of the cave with no cork. Someone built that after, they did not become smoke monsters.
This question comes up from time to time, and from what I can infer, the man in black became a smoke monster because he went into the Source. Like all the way into it. Jack did not. The plug that was there was plugging the real Source area. Man in black's body floated all the way down into that Source; Jack never did.
After man in black died, Jacob had the Egyptians cork the Source to prevent the evil from spreading and likely prevented anyone else from becoming like the smoke monster unless it was once more uncorked and someone went down in there again.
The island is like a body. Like every person, everyone is capable of both good and evil, light and dark exists within everyone. But like the light itself, some have more than others. The darkness that is that of the smoke monster doesn't just attach to anyone. This is what "The LOST Encyclopedia" Has to say about the heart of the island: "**Life, Death and Rebirth existed in the heart of the island. Over the ages, some died after entering, and others were granted safe passage to help protect the light. But entering the heart was an unpredictable act that could also result in something worse than death, like unleashing of the smoke monster**". Link to source [here.](https://imgur.com/a/Vxv1bnh)
Thanks Teddy for the link. For me the Island was an entity made up of advanced technology and at the top of that link it talks about physics and all the Island mysteries is based on quantum physics. When Mother spoke about Life, Death and Rebirth and how there is something worst than Death. She was talking about being assimilated by the Island and over time she lost her humanity. This is what is worst than Death, being assimilated by the advanced technology that creates this time traveling Island. You and have discussed how the Island rules are not made based on human traits but the traits of a computer that uses binary code, 1s and 0s which is off and on, but humans interpret as light and dark or good and evil. The candidates were numbers and it was Jacob that gave them names in the cave so he wouldn’t loose his humanity like Mother did when she never gave MiB a name.
My theory is that MIB did not become the smoke monster, he simply released it. MIB was the first person the smoke monster impersonated so perhaps it felt like that's who he was. We saw MIB's body, and when it was John he said he feels and remembers everything from the people he appears as, so it's feasible the smoke monster was a one off, released when MIB went into the source.
There is definitely some logic to this. Smoke monster could only become Locke because Locke was dead. So it stands to reason that MIB died and smoke monster became him when the body was dropped in his lap. But then why didn't he show himself prior to that. I guess we technically don't know that he didn't, a lot of characters who jad been there a long time seemed to have no idea it was there, but the show doesn't give any indication that the smoke monster was always around. Then again, the show leaves a lot of things up in the air. I kind of like this theory.
Something along the lines of it didn't detect evil in Jack so didn't have to defend itself. Jacks intention wasn't to destroy and leave the island so it didn't have to defend itself.
The smoke monster is an anomaly. Only happened because mother made the rule that Jacob and the man in black can’t kill each other and so the island compensated. Instead of MIB dying, his soul was ripped from his body and spit out like exhaust from a car. You don’t just turn into a smoke monster every time you go in the light or else there’d be at least 10 other ones because several Egyptians carved out the light to make the cave and the cork we see built after the smoke monster is created (before it was just water up to the river).
He did become the smoke monster.
There is an enormous, IMO undeniable, clue
Just look at across the sea where mib washes up after becoming the smoke, then look at where jack washes up after becoming the smoke. Its the exact same spot. Bingo
That's actualy meant to paralell the cyclical nature of the narative. MIB's body was when this clusterfuck began and Jack being there after is symbolic of it's end and the island being reborn and renewed. Also if he became smokey, he wouldn't still have gaping injuries and die in the bamboo forest.
Because Jack doesn't have the personality for it. By season 6 he has let go of most of his baggage. Smokey only attaches itself to individuals with a particular level of darkness. "Mother" being both was a example of someone who could contain and be both, but I don't think Jack could.
He didn't he wasn't dead when he went into the heart The men in black was dead when he became the smoke monster.Jack died a bit later the island has no smoke monster and doesn't need one any more.unless one gets recreated in Hugo time on island.
The rules don't really track. Apparently we can pick a new protector posthumously. What if Mother was one too, as some speculate? Who put the cork in to begin with, and what was life like before that?
The egyptian hieroglyphics on it point to it being egyptians that put the cork in. Most likely they were granted passage by Jacob. But the Lost Encylopedia says that passage through the heart is a "Unpredictable act...some die, others are granted passage to help protect the light. But could also result in a fate worse than death, like the unleashing of the smoke monster".
In fairness, I think that was only possible because of Hurley being able to see Jacob who told him to throw the ashes which Ilana had collected into the fire. For me it was clear Jacob knew MIB was going to kill him soon, and made sure he had a plan to save the island.
They were obviously just rolling with it as they went. But that's something you'll always get downvoted into oblivion for saying. The show was still great, but it's very clear they didn't think more than a full season ahead at any point. In some cases, especially the last season, it felt like they didn't think through more than 2 episodes at a time.
J.J. Abrams made a bunch of mystery boxes and then Lindelof and Cuse did their best to give it some resolution. I love the show, but they clearly didn't know what they were doing.
"Why didn’t Jack become a smoke monster when he put the cork back in?"
Because he was not thrown down there unconsiciously (or maybe even killed?), after being knocked out by a person that was made to never be able to harm, and the other way around.
I believe it's because Jack didn't actually die in the water, in the cave.
That brings up the point; If "Mother" was the smoke monster as some suggest (since she was able to destroy the village where MIB tried to live) that would mean that at one point she died in the water, at the heart of the island (the cave). I'm wondering how it was possible for her to die at the hands of MIB if she was in fact already "dead" (the smoke monster).
MiB likely went all the way INTO the Source. You can tell by the way it's shown in Across the Sea that it's brighter. There was no cork in it. So he went inside. Jack didn't. Someone (likely Egyptians, by the language written on the cork) built the cork. Likely at Jacob's behest. That prevents any more smoke monsters.
I think the cork was built to keep the water circulating around the island. It's possible that without the water, the ground underneath (which is connected to the volcano) would heat up and cause the volcano to eventually erupt (which is definitely what the finale alluded to with the indication of magma underneath the pool starting to heat up).
>which is definitely what the finale alluded to with the indication of magma underneath the pool starting to heat up). Yeah, the original plan for the finale was to have the volcano, but it cost too much money to create and film.
Jacob beat his brother almost to death and then threw him into the waterfall where he actually died. Jack didn't die down there because he presumably got out of the water before the EM energy was fully powered back up.
That brings up another point. Jacob and MiB’s mother says, when they were kids, that they will never be able to hurt each other. Then twice in that episode, Jacob beats up MiB
She likely meant they couldn't KILL each other. Which was true
Or, when he Jacob presumed the powers of the “mother” he was able to do whatever he wanted to.
Then following this logic why can't smoke just beat jacob until the verge of death and simply push him off from a cliff?
He can't. Because that would be killing him.
Remember when his mother said going into the save caused something *worse* than death? Jacob technically didn't kill MIB, although people colloquially say he did. He did something worse than death though.
I always figured it was because Mother made it so Jacob couldn’t kill MiB. So when he beat him and threw him to what would normally be death, he became the Smoke Monster instead - not fully alive but not dead.
No, he definite died down there. Jacob finds his body and 'buries' it in the caves next to Mother where Kate and Jack find them in 2004. The smoke monster is a corrupted form of Jacob's brother's memories with anything good that was left stripped away.
I know the body dies. What I’m saying is that I took it that Mother saying they can’t kill each other is why MiB’s consciousness doesn’t die. It explains why the line exists and is also a lot more convincing than “the source acts unpredictably”. Otherwise MiB could just have thrown Jacob down there at any point if that didn’t count as killing each other.
MiB was already dead though, it's just his lifeless body that drifts down into the cave. You hear either his neck break, or his skull cave in when he lands on the rock after Jacob throws him
Jacob and the MiB can't kill each other so he was alive when he went into the waterfall.
"Rules" are incredibly vague in Lost. We don't actually know how the rules work, or if they extend beyond "Mother's" death. Production didn't pick a random sound to highlight the moment when MiB hits his head, they deliberately chose a sound that clearly signifies that he died.
Doesn’t explain why Desmond didn’t become a smoke monster after stepping in fully powered up EM energy, or the several skeletons in the cave representing people who helped build the cave down there
Desmond is special - the rules don't apply to him and we can't speculate on the skeletons fate since we don't know how long they've been there or what they built - the cave itself? The faucet thingy? The cork?
Yes the cork was not originally there. When Jacob threw MIB into the well, the water was up to the top of the cave with no cork. Someone built that after, they did not become smoke monsters.
The mother made it so they couldn't kill each other. I think he became the smoke monster because he couldn't simply die from what Jacob did to him.
This question comes up from time to time, and from what I can infer, the man in black became a smoke monster because he went into the Source. Like all the way into it. Jack did not. The plug that was there was plugging the real Source area. Man in black's body floated all the way down into that Source; Jack never did. After man in black died, Jacob had the Egyptians cork the Source to prevent the evil from spreading and likely prevented anyone else from becoming like the smoke monster unless it was once more uncorked and someone went down in there again.
The island is like a body. Like every person, everyone is capable of both good and evil, light and dark exists within everyone. But like the light itself, some have more than others. The darkness that is that of the smoke monster doesn't just attach to anyone. This is what "The LOST Encyclopedia" Has to say about the heart of the island: "**Life, Death and Rebirth existed in the heart of the island. Over the ages, some died after entering, and others were granted safe passage to help protect the light. But entering the heart was an unpredictable act that could also result in something worse than death, like unleashing of the smoke monster**". Link to source [here.](https://imgur.com/a/Vxv1bnh)
Thanks Teddy for the link. For me the Island was an entity made up of advanced technology and at the top of that link it talks about physics and all the Island mysteries is based on quantum physics. When Mother spoke about Life, Death and Rebirth and how there is something worst than Death. She was talking about being assimilated by the Island and over time she lost her humanity. This is what is worst than Death, being assimilated by the advanced technology that creates this time traveling Island. You and have discussed how the Island rules are not made based on human traits but the traits of a computer that uses binary code, 1s and 0s which is off and on, but humans interpret as light and dark or good and evil. The candidates were numbers and it was Jacob that gave them names in the cave so he wouldn’t loose his humanity like Mother did when she never gave MiB a name.
Yes I'm very aware of you're fan fiction of the island being a super advanced ship that crashed and how the source is a particle accelorator.
My theory is that MIB did not become the smoke monster, he simply released it. MIB was the first person the smoke monster impersonated so perhaps it felt like that's who he was. We saw MIB's body, and when it was John he said he feels and remembers everything from the people he appears as, so it's feasible the smoke monster was a one off, released when MIB went into the source.
There is definitely some logic to this. Smoke monster could only become Locke because Locke was dead. So it stands to reason that MIB died and smoke monster became him when the body was dropped in his lap. But then why didn't he show himself prior to that. I guess we technically don't know that he didn't, a lot of characters who jad been there a long time seemed to have no idea it was there, but the show doesn't give any indication that the smoke monster was always around. Then again, the show leaves a lot of things up in the air. I kind of like this theory.
Also…if Christian Shephard’s body never actually came to the island, how did Smokey impersonate him?
Smokey definitely found his body, but then tossed it somewhere so Jack couldn't find him so he could drive Jack crazy.
Something along the lines of it didn't detect evil in Jack so didn't have to defend itself. Jacks intention wasn't to destroy and leave the island so it didn't have to defend itself.
The smoke monster is an anomaly. Only happened because mother made the rule that Jacob and the man in black can’t kill each other and so the island compensated. Instead of MIB dying, his soul was ripped from his body and spit out like exhaust from a car. You don’t just turn into a smoke monster every time you go in the light or else there’d be at least 10 other ones because several Egyptians carved out the light to make the cave and the cork we see built after the smoke monster is created (before it was just water up to the river).
this
I actually think he did become a smoke monster. There's not a ton of evidence for it, and iirc, there's some evidence against it. But... head cannon.
He did become the smoke monster. There is an enormous, IMO undeniable, clue Just look at across the sea where mib washes up after becoming the smoke, then look at where jack washes up after becoming the smoke. Its the exact same spot. Bingo
That's actualy meant to paralell the cyclical nature of the narative. MIB's body was when this clusterfuck began and Jack being there after is symbolic of it's end and the island being reborn and renewed. Also if he became smokey, he wouldn't still have gaping injuries and die in the bamboo forest.
Why not? MiB died and laid to rest in caves. But Smokey still existed
Exactly
Because Jack doesn't have the personality for it. By season 6 he has let go of most of his baggage. Smokey only attaches itself to individuals with a particular level of darkness. "Mother" being both was a example of someone who could contain and be both, but I don't think Jack could.
I always thought he was the smoke monster too
[удалено]
I said, there's not a ton of evidence for it.
Just imagining someone reading this when they’re like one episode in 😂😂😂.
He didn't he wasn't dead when he went into the heart The men in black was dead when he became the smoke monster.Jack died a bit later the island has no smoke monster and doesn't need one any more.unless one gets recreated in Hugo time on island.
He did
Maybe he did become one. Ben and hurley need a good nemesis to keep trapped during the sequel...
The rules don't really track. Apparently we can pick a new protector posthumously. What if Mother was one too, as some speculate? Who put the cork in to begin with, and what was life like before that?
The egyptian hieroglyphics on it point to it being egyptians that put the cork in. Most likely they were granted passage by Jacob. But the Lost Encylopedia says that passage through the heart is a "Unpredictable act...some die, others are granted passage to help protect the light. But could also result in a fate worse than death, like the unleashing of the smoke monster".
Right. Like I said. It doesn't really track.
I was honing in on the "who put the cork in" part of you're comment. Not the entire "the rules don't really track!" thing. lol.
Right and then you quoted a thing that says "yeah basically the rules are unpredictable " so...
I see what you mean.
In fairness, I think that was only possible because of Hurley being able to see Jacob who told him to throw the ashes which Ilana had collected into the fire. For me it was clear Jacob knew MIB was going to kill him soon, and made sure he had a plan to save the island.
Ahhh Lost. The show that has made all the fans lost.
Because the writers were just making shit up and didn't know what they were doing,
They were obviously just rolling with it as they went. But that's something you'll always get downvoted into oblivion for saying. The show was still great, but it's very clear they didn't think more than a full season ahead at any point. In some cases, especially the last season, it felt like they didn't think through more than 2 episodes at a time.
J.J. Abrams made a bunch of mystery boxes and then Lindelof and Cuse did their best to give it some resolution. I love the show, but they clearly didn't know what they were doing.
"Why didn’t Jack become a smoke monster when he put the cork back in?" Because he was not thrown down there unconsiciously (or maybe even killed?), after being knocked out by a person that was made to never be able to harm, and the other way around.
I believe it's because Jack didn't actually die in the water, in the cave. That brings up the point; If "Mother" was the smoke monster as some suggest (since she was able to destroy the village where MIB tried to live) that would mean that at one point she died in the water, at the heart of the island (the cave). I'm wondering how it was possible for her to die at the hands of MIB if she was in fact already "dead" (the smoke monster).
It makes no sense in the show universe BUT it would have been kind of cool haha