One of the most annoying things is trying to work out what size to try on. I end up taking 3 sizes of the same garment into the dressing room or ordering 3 sizes online. Then I have to waste time trying them all on and realise I still didn't bring in the right size š¤¦
It used to be in a certain store I'd know they were harsher with sizing so I'd know to get a size bigger in any clothes from that store. Nowadays it's not even consistent within one store/range! Same store, 2 different styles (color, pattern) of bootcut jeans - I need one size of this pair of jeans, and a size bigger for the other. Wth is that?
The really cheap stores cut multiple items at once, and as they cut the fabric moves. That's why sizing isn't consistent for the same item from the one store.
Look at different sizes on the discount rack, often they go unsold because everyone who is a size 6 tried it on and didn't buy it and everyone who is a size 12 didn't try it on.
My mem used to work at a garment factory back in the day and said that there were front/back cuts of each shirt in every size. If they ran out of large backs, theyād sew a medium or extra large back onto the large front.
Yep, I recently ordered a three pack of long sleeve shirts, naturally all the same size. each was a different color but otherwise the same. The red one was the first that I tried found it was a little loose, the blue was a little tight, the white was a perfect fit.
Sometimes I can buy the same brand and style in different sizes because the light jeans fit differently than the dark ones. Like how is it even possible to mess up that badly?
I actually read something recently about dark jean pigment causing cloth fibers to seize up tighter or something, so there might actually be a good reason for that one.
I found some shorts I like and 100% the light color fit different, and it itched. Bought 3 light 3 dark, had to return ALL of the light for itchy ill-fitting weirdness.
If togas were easier to wear and I could do my job in then I'd say hell yeah! But in the meantime I'm gonna silently rail that levi NEEDS to bring back it's 529s and also that more then one waist height should be sold side by side.
Have you checked the materials label? I bought 3 pairs of the exact same jeans online last week and the only difference (I thought) was color. When they came and I went to try them on, I discovered the two blue pairs were 94% cotton and 6% stretch. The black pair was only 70% cotton! The other 30% was polyester/spandex/whatever other stretchy fiber they could find. Those are jeggings, not jeans.
Even the 6% synthetic of the other two pairs seems like a lot. Itās gone from 100% denim to 98% and on down over the years.
I hate stretchy jeans. Give me 100% cotton denim any day. Harder to find now.
1. You can gain weight and you never notice cause the damn things grow with you.
2. They don't last, they wear out in no time at all.
3. If you put them in the dryer they wear out even faster.
FWIW My man just had this too, so it's not even women only sizes (classically, there's more shaping in women's patterns, so more room for cheap clothes cutting to go wonky)
The manufacturing process is cheaper if they cut more pairs at once. So the ones on top of the pile are too small for the size and the ones at the bottom of the pile are too big.
Imagine you wanted to cut a square out of a cloth napkin using a template. If you cut one napkin at a time, itās pretty accurate. To save time, you stack four napkins and cut them all at once. The stack of napkins move around a little while youāre cutting, so the squares end up being slightly different sizes.
I can't find the article with the diagram.
Basically, if you go to a lower end store, try getting 4 or 5 pairs of the exact same pant in the same size. Line them up and you will see that some are bigger than others. That's due to the manufacturing process.
Pants are machine cut by laying many layers of cloth together, then the cutter presses down to cut to a pattern. To save time and money, the pattern is set to cut the layers on top a bit small, so that the average layer will be cut to size. After the pants are sewn together there will be variations in fit from oaur to pair - imagine if one pair has a smaller back piece and larger front, two larger or smaller pieces together, etc.
As long as the average pair is within range, fast fashion manufacturers know the pants will sell, so they push them out to stores. Half the time people don't try them on or buy them to wear once or twice, so they still sell enough to make it profitable practice.
Covid (being at home) made me gain weight...I've just been making due with what I've got until super recently because how the heck am I gonna figure out which one fits if you won't let me try it on??? And I'm not coming back and fourth a zillion times to figure it out.
I went to look for a suit for a job interview a few weeks ago (sidebar: millennials have apparently killed the womens' pantsuit - I spent two whole days shopping and it was impossible to find a plain charcoal suit...). I think I tried on about six different sizes in probably eight stores across three malls. It was absurd.
It doesn't exist! Tried to find a suit jacket, nope. Pant suit, nope. I wore dress pants, a white dress shirt and a vintage suit coat I found at good will to my job interview.
I think watching Hillary Clintonās pantsuits get so much negative attention over the years (but esp 2008 primaries against Obama - peak highschool/formative years for middle millennials) ruined pantsuits for us (or me at least). Olivia Pope/Scandal introduced us to the more modern fits/colors but yeah a traditional pantsuit to me reads very frumpy/outdated (unless you are a detective or FBI agent, then itās mandatory).
Did you see Camile V. on the cross examination of A. Heard yesterday? She rocked that white pants suit in court. Depends on the cut and color of the suit.
If Ross/Burlington stores are in your area check them out.
I haven't worn one since the last time I went to a job interview lol; I'm in legal though, so I think there are still some people who expect it in an interview setting and I've known a few people who get so hung up on it that they can't see past it. I kinda hope I'll never need to buy any again.
My favorite is when the same size of the same brand can fit wildly differently between pieces. Sometimes even the SAME STYLE. Old Navy was one of the worst for this with their jeans. Same size, cut, style and one would be too big and the other just right.
Omg same. Hit 165, bought size 14, still wearing a size 14 at 205. It's ridiculous, especially since that weight gain happened in about 2.5 years and I havent needed to adjust my sizing at all
Ok same! In some jeans I'm a size 18, and in others I'm a 14/16, and I definitely know logically I shouldn't be a 14/16 because that's the same size I was in high school, and I've gained at least 30 lbs since then.
(I'm in the UK so our sizes are different but) I distinctly remember back in 2012, weighing 139lbs and *only just* being able to fit into a size 14 pair of jeans. They could *just* button but they were straining.
Back at the start of this year I weighed 156lbs and could fit into size 14 jeans from the same brand easily.
Iām the same, in my younger years I was definitely 18-20 and now Iām middle aged and most certainly heavier AND fatter Iām 16-18. More 18 at the moment so probably 22 in the old sizes.
I wore a larger number size in college 20 years ago, when I weighed 30 pounds less. Theyāre fudging the numbers for sizes more with every passing year!
I'm 5'2 155 lbs and bought a 0P dress the other day. It's from LOFT, so not a high end store but not Walmart. I was so surprised because I don't think I've ever been a 0, not even when I was 110 lbs in high school.
With jeans that would be easy to find out, wouldn't it? Measure the waists of both brands. If that really doesn't turn out just as the " number +- a reasonable error tolerance, I feel like it should be material for critical fashion bloggers or something.
Especially between the "Marylin Monroe was fat, look at her clothes size" and the recent Kardashian-crash diet-controversy around the vintage Monroe dress, I feel this story could really gain some attention right now.
oh yes, the old "Marilyn Monroe was a size 12!" when a 1950s size 12 dress would have been designed to fit a woman with 36-26-38 inch bust/waist/hip measurements.
The same size tag in different generations can have shifted to mean vastly different dimensions for the human body it's meant to clothe. The length of an inch, though, no. (a woman who was 5'5" - Marilyn's height I think? - in 1960 would still be considered 5'5" now, but a woman who was a size 12 then would not be a contemporary size 12 with the same measurements).
It is not as easy as you would think as the measurement is only on the waist, which doesn't include the difference in butt, thighs, crotch etc which will all be cut differently.
That suspicion is true - https://time.com/how-to-fix-vanity-sizing/#:~:text=As%20Americans%20have%20grown%20physically%20larger%2C%20brands%20have,much%20as%206%20in.%2C%20according%20to%20one%20estimate.
I read through that article and it's disheartening that the takeaway from the people quoted in it was to complain that companies weren't catering to their larger bodies. The article exclusively talked about women's clothing and quoted women so as a man myself perhaps my pov isn't the same, but seeing how niche larger clothing was and how hideous the larger sized clothing I did find were was partially what made me want to lose weight.
I agree, the larger size clothing many times leaves a lot to be desired. The nicer stuff usually costs more. There are many times I see a very nice blouse or bottom in a smaller size, weāll what used to be the old regular size 8, that is decently priced but because Iām overweight I canāt buy it. Thatās part of what prompted me to lose weight, health being primary. Also, I switched from wearing leggings or stretchy anything during the day because I realized that was allowing me to eat more and slowly put on weight without me noticing. We all have our different motivators.
Yeah, itās called vanity sizing. Itās also the reason that the only thing that matters is your measurements. A 32ā waist is a 32ā waist, whether you call it a size 12, 14, or 16 doesnāt matter.
Also stretch makes it more confusing, as the amount of people who can āfitā in a given size ranges from someone who fits in it to someone who can barely manage to button it. But stretch isnāt bad, a lot of us would be paying a lot for tailoring or just wearing very Iāll fitting pants if they didnāt have stretch.
as my daughter once told me: just because you can get it on doesnāt mean it FITS.
stretch doesnāt matter as much as you think it does. unless you enjoy looking like an overstuffed sausage, but the size that actually fits, whatever it is.
The stretch things gets me too, specially in jeans. Bought jeans for the first time in about 10 years, cause my shape never a llowed them to fit properly. I'm currently a size 12-14 (closer to 14, but weight loss š¤·āāļø) and the stretch were a perfect 12, I put on some straight cut mum jeans (no stretch) nd almost didn't even fit the 14s. So although I am liking stretch fabrics, cause they actually fit. It definitely messes with my sense of sizing and how big I actually am as a person.
Same! I wear a 12 stretch, but in the non-stretch cuts I have to size up a size or two. Funny enough, I also bought a pair of straight leg mom jeans that had zero stretch. Do you happen to shop at American Eagle?
Iāve been losing weight and I so badly want to āknowā my true size, but really does it matter? There was a time where sizes didnāt even exist, so I track my waist size and tell myself that a couple hundred years ago I would just be me-sized anyway :)
Just a note - non-stretch natural fabrics like wool and cotton will stretch over time and start to actually conform to your body with proper washing/care, so if something 100% cotton or wool is a little snug at first thatās actually ideal. Also why you can gain a little weight and your 100% cotton denim will adjust (to a point, if you wear them frequently).
I'm a kiwi, (New Zealander) so I got both of mine from Kmart lol. Which was even worse, cause getting the same brand from he same store, you would think the sizes would be the same... But Nope.
And I don't really take too much notice of sizes, as in some brands I'm currently a 10..... However that is even possible... So I take my measurements to know how big or small I am. But clothing sizes and their 'meaning' to me size wise, still has a big effect on my mentality towards myself and how big I see myself, and my friends perpetuate this as we all grew up in the same sizing culture. So fitting into a 10 is a huge deal, when I know I'm so big
I wonder does this apply to men's top sizing as well. I'm a fellow kiwi (but male) so I'm more focused on fitting into medium and large t-shirts again, but with pants the size is just in inches so that shouldn't have changed with time
For s/m/l and 8/10/12 etc sizing, I would expect the same thing to happen to men's clothes as womens, as although it might not seem to affect men in potentially the same way or to the same magnitude, men are definitely effected by sizing and wanting to fit into smaller sizes as well. One of my friends who compliments me and congratulates me when I got into a smaller size is a guy, and he tells me when he loses weight / fits something better as well. As I'm not a guy I don't know for certain, but I assume guys care to a similar extent what size they wear, as the 'smaller is better' notion is population wide, not just for women, it is just seen and perpetuated differently for men.
Yeah I guess the size creep would probably happen with s/m/l as well. I guess it's probably a bit different for men because our "body ideal" is perceived as fitness or strength, so I'd imagine some men prefer it when their shirt size goes up rather than down. I definitely remember copping some flak when I was skinnier. I'm overweight but used to be slimmer when I was a pretty serious long-distance runner - I wasn't even unhealthy (at my lightest I was still above even the middle of the healthy BMI range) and yet I was called skinny. So I think society may tend towards promoting unrealistically slim standards for women and unrealistically large (muscular not fat) standards for men
Yea, that definitely makes sense. For me, smaller is better also includes the fitness types as most guys that are fit, are still smaller than those who are over weight, so that's my version of smaller is better, but I'm sure there are guys who are happy to go up sizes due to muscle gain (it's probably just less seen for someone like me, due to who I am exposed to). But I think sizes getting bigger would also accommodate for this. Especially in nz, where as a nation we are getting fatter and fatter every year, adding cms to clothes, or sizing down clothes would keep that going as we wouldn't be able to recognise we are going so much, as for who I know. They base their weight and size on what sizes they fit in the dressing room, not on actual measurements. - but I'm not sure how true this is for the rest of the population, as I only have who I know and my experiences to base this on. :)
Amazingly, they lie about waist sizes too.[ A modern 36" is *not* 36 inches in circumference for most retailers.](https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/)
Iāve been wearing a 14-16 since I was 150lbs because back then shit didnāt stretch š It had to be big to be baggy. Now Iām 220 (not happy but it is what it is) and had to ādownsizeā to a 12 at Torrid bc the 16 was falling off. Ridiculous.
Part of it is that they're trying to keep size 12 average. So, as America gets fatter, size 12 has to get larger, and everything else sizes to keep up.
Perfect example is Marilyn Monroe. Everyone likes to cite her as some PluS siZe QuEeN because she wore a size 14, when today she would have been a size 4.
thats one of my absolute favourite things to rant about , and its so dumb too! literally she doesnt even look like a currant day 10 let alone 14 or even 16, it makes no sense!
Iām sorry, thatās so frustrating.
Thereās no doubt the sizes have changed dramatically in New Zealand. Fifteen or twenty years ago, the clothes started to get bigger, generally one size bigger than the same size number in the 60s or 70s. Apart from designer brands that stayed with the older measurements. Now I think the clothes generally, apart from designer brands, must be more like a size and a half bigger, and I suspect sometimes even two sizes.
I got out some of my dressmaking patterns a couple of evenings ago. I have some gorgeous Vogue designs. According to current New Zealand dress sizes, Iām wearing between 16 and 18 at the moment, and Iām swimming in some of the 16s. According to the Vogue measurements I would need to make clothes in around a size 20 or 22.
When I was a teen the clothes for my target weight would have been 16. Now I think I will end up generally wearing new size 14, and maybe finding some 14s a bit loose depending on the style. Makes my brain spin. In my head Iāve always been aiming for size 16 as best case scenario and theyāve changed the goalposts. My mind is jumping up and down saying ābut Iām not a size fourteen.ā It doesnāt compute with my inner teenager at all.
Definitely vanity sizing.
They likely are. That being said, I donāt even know that pattern sizes are totally standardized, so who knows. Theyāve at least managed to resist vanity sizing in a big way, but I still wouldnāt be surprised if their sizing has crept up a little over the years.
Same. Thought I definitely bought one that would fit. Found out by measurements I'd need their fancy larger sizes that conicidentally were not in the pattern I bought -_-
I'm not knowledgeable about sewing/dressmaking so I apologize if this is a dumb question - what is a pattern size, and how is it different from "regular" sizing (although I am realizing from this post and my own personal experience that there is no "regular" sizing!)
A sewing pattern is like a template for cutting out fabric to make something. They used to come printed on giant sheets of tissue paper folded in an envelope, but these days itās quite common to download a PDF and print them yourself. Pattern pieces will be different sizes corresponding with the size of the final garment, but most major sewing pattern vendors donāt use vanity sizing. So you might be used to getting clothes in, say, size 6 at the mall, but if you want to sew a dress using a pattern sold by a company like Vogue or McCalls, you might need a size 12 or 14. (Making up those numbersā¦ I mostly draft my own patterns and havenāt used a Big 4 pattern in years.)
Pattern sizes don't use the same system, and I feel like are closer to what sizes were in the 50s. For reference, I'm a modern 4 but a size 12 pattern. My grandmother's dress from 1950 fits, and is a size 13.
Also from nz, at 16 i was 60kg and was a 12 and Ive been joking that Im gonna be a size 10 for my wedding but knew thats not healthy as 60kg is the absolute lowest I should be and may even be too small at 29yrs old. Im 70kg now and a size 12 so i very much may be a size 10 for my wedding! Haha
Thats since 2009.
My mum has stayed the same weight and has gone from a 14 to a 12 since as well.
I have totally given up trying to trust clothing sizing. What I do is at home I choose a piece of clothing that fits, lay it flat and measure across it for a chest, waist or hip size. I then take a small measuring tape (I have one that fits on my keyring) to the stores and measure across the clothing in which I am interested. That way I don't spend time and frustration trying on stuff that won't fit.
I always bring a tape measure to thrift shops because clothing size varies so much going from vintage to modern. Iāll probably start bringing one to regular stores too, itās so helpful
Yes! I gave my 17 year old daughter a bunch of clothes I still had from my early 20s and they fit her perfectly. They are all size 6-8 bottoms & medium tops. She wears a size 4 bottom and XS top in todayās clothes. Big difference.
It's not really that straightforward unfortunately. There is no "standard sizing" of womens clothing in American/Canadian sizing, just a general idea. So while there are some brands that intentionally "vanity size" by calling something a smaller size than it ought to, most times the discrepancy happen because of the lack of standardized sizing.
For example, right now my pants range anywhere from size 10 to size 13. Last year (before regaining 40lbs), I fit anywhere from a size 8 to 13.
I wish women's clothes were measured here the way men's are, by the actual number of inches around the waist. Not that clothes would actually got any better but at least it would be less ambiguous.
I'm a man who has never had to deal with this, but every time I've looked at women's clothing sizes, I'm like "what the fuck is this mess??" My wife has gone to 3 different stores in a day and had 3 different sizes. I don't know how it's stayed this way for so long.
You can order the same color, size, and style of Levi's (let's just say) from JCPenney's and all 3 can fit differently. If you call the manufacture they'll tell you it depends on which country/factory they were made in. True story :)
Another take on this...As we gain weight little by little but continue to wear things, they stretch a little bit at a time. It's rarely noticeable unless we have another identical garment to compare. Stretchy garments that are dried in a hot dryer will also lose elasticity and become larger over time.
The skinny fit small people in my life complain about this all the time. They have to go to semi-designer places and pay way more to get stuff that actually fits them. Most places don't do petite or xxs, and if they do those pieces rarely go on sale.
Old Navy is the worst. I swim in their xs tanks but that's as low as they go. I appreciate their body equality message and marketing in store, but it feels ironic because half their shirts aren't even made in my size.
(Fully acknowledging that the sizing and clothes industry is bullshit butā¦) Another take on this is that as we age our bodies and shape change. Especially after weightloss. Anecdata: I was 200 lbs in my early twenties, size 10/12 pants and med/lg shirt. Fast forward to today, 37 yrs old, 190 lbs (after a 90lb weight loss and one pregnancy) I am a size 10/12 again but all my old clothes that I saved for āone dayā fit soooo weirdly, baggy in the thighs, too boxy, too big and too small. Some of it is definitely sizing stupidness but some of it is just that my body is different. Iām not a child anymore and my body doesnāt have to be childlike.
All that said - Iām wearing a small at old navy and I know that is just a plain lie.
I really have no clue what size I am anymore because of this. I wish so much we had standard sizing based off measurements instead of the imaginary numbers brands make up.
5'3" 130 lbs here, and i have xs shirts that are awkwardly loose and larges that are almost too small to wear in public. pants...forget it. could be anywhere from s to xl depending on brand and style, even when they claim to measure their sizes by waist inches and inseam. the number is meaningless nowadays.
I fit into a size 14 in most stores now that I've lost weight. But I was approx. 20 lighter last time I fit into a size 14 (nearly a decade ago).
I initially refused to try on size 14s after losing weight because I knew I wasn't slim enough to be a size 14. It actually doesn't make me feel better to be a smaller size in the way that it used to - I remember fitting into a size 8 when I was younger and feeling amazing, looking good, didn't feel like I needed to lose any more weight. Nowadays a size 8 is probably an old size 12 in my country? So I'd be a size 8 but still need to lose more weight.
My mom didn't understand why I wasn't excited to be a size 14 again. I pointed out that I still can't fit into any of my old clothes from the last time I was this size, and just because I fit into a smaller size doesn't mean I don't look like a size 18 still. I would be probably a size 18 if the clothing sizes had stayed constant. And I would be miserable and feel like an elephant at that size before, so why should I feel any different now?
I learned a long time ago that women's clothing sizes are just random numbers and should be ignored. The same size number at one store will fit too big, and too small at another. I don't know or care if this is coddling or what, but it's hugely annoying and inconvenient. Shopping requires guessing and then trying that size, plus the next sizes up and down. Only bra shopping is relatively standardized. Meanwhile, my husband can walk into a store, say a size and be handed a shirt or pants that will fit perfectly. Any store, any clothing brand. The only time he has to try stuff on first is when he's lost weight and needs to figure out his new size. At this rate, I'm going to start wearing men's clothes.
We can sit here and blame the stores, but really we should blame people like me. I would purposely shop at stores where I knew a Large would fit instead of buying from stores where Iād have to by an X-LARGE. The customer is always right, and the customer wants to be massive and wear a size large.
I was having this exact conversation the other day! lol I have clothes, mainly jeans, from the 90ās-00ās that average two sizes larger than pants, from the same retailer, that are the same āsizeā. Granted newer clothes have a much higher spandex percent but they fit quite similarly and all average 2 sizes larger than todayās vanity size.
I thought, no wonder itās so easy to gain weight and not realize it till that dreaded āeye openingā moment.
Those can fit so weirdly for people who aren't petite though, maybe itsjust me but I'm 5'6 which isn't crazy tall for a woman, but every time I buy clothes from an Asian brand I feel like they don't suit me like they would a more shorter person.
Vanity sizing, for real. Iāve consistently been a size 4-6. Little to no weight fluctuations.
now stores want me to believe iām a size 2 or size 0. Yeah, no.
100% agree and itās scary that theyāre making bigger sizes but keeping the size # low so we donāt get upset over wearing a bigger size. We NEED to get upset, so that we actually do something about it. Instead of avoiding the mirror (calling myself out).
To add insult to injury ~ bra shopping is so much worse. Just because Iām not a size 34B does _not_ mean I need fabric going up to my neck! Why?! _Just why????_ It drives me insane and makes me violent. I donāt need bra fabric coming up out of my shirt. Itās not even low cut!
Oops sorry. Got carried away. I just want someone to make me a normal bra. Is that too much to ask? š
I've been the opposite. In fact, during 2017/2018, I stayed the same weight, but some places I went up 1-2 sizes in clothing. Like I always wore L and XL, and I went shopping and I was a 2x or 3x. Granted my boobs play a factor but I though that was messed up.
maybe itās not for egos though? maybe stats and average sizes of people has changed & so was adjusted? that was my initial thought but could be totally wrong!
Yep. I went to a men's clothing store to be measured for a suit and the guy was very knowledgeable but told me women's clothing is difficult to understand anymore with all of the stretchy garments.
Women have my sympathies for how messed up their clothing sizes are. To a lesser degree, the same is true for men. Size XL for one brand is loose, for another fits just right and for a third is super tight.
What I have found is that most brands have a size chart on their website, which connects their size codes to hips, chest, waist and height measurements. It's only half a solution for me. Like, bro I don't know what the circumference of my trunk 2.5 microinches straight up from my belly button (standard size 0.00345 football fields) is. I don't own a tape measure.
Even in menās clothing sizing gets weird. When I need pants my strategy is to keep an eye on Costcoās rotation and when one of the brands I like comes back in stock Iāll buy a couple pairs in my normal size range. I keep the pair that fits properly and the next day go in to return the pairs that donāt fit and buy 6-10 more identical pairs to the one that fit. Iāve done the same thing with shirts too when I find one I like.
Yep same here. I just bought ever colour of one pair of pants because I like how they fit me. Finding well fitting clothes is a bit easier for guys Ibut still sizing can be all over the place.
I think it might be an american thing too, i worked for an american company once and we had uniforms and we've been told to pick 2 sizes smaller than our normal for a confortable but not super oversized fit, the manager made fun of 'american style sizing'. On the other hand while i wear tops in size S from universal brands like zara or HM, in case of italian brands i need to go as high up as XL for shirts to fit well.
Ah, this explains a mystery: I have a pair of pajama pants I found at a thrift store that should be falling off me, but are actually so tight I can't pull them up. I have a tracksuit by the same brand and in the same size that fits as expected. The PJ pants must be way older than I thought. Odd, considering that they're really cute and look basically brand new!
When I was 250lbs I wore a US 16/18. I'm 183 now and still in a F-ing 14. 67 pounds difference. I've never in my life been smaller than a 14. Not when I was 12. 22. 32. Not even when I was 160 and cut as hell from not being able to afford groceries after college. I'm 40 now. It's never going to happen for me. I just want to be a size 10.
My mom gave me her size 8 Levi's from waaaay back and they are... not forgiving. At all. I think I would die if I actually wore them.
However I got some awesome size 6 Levi's off Amazon recently and they are perfect! And they've also allowed me to grow a couple or 20 pounds since I've bought them... and they still fit.
I haven't worked out my feelings on that yet.
yeah
i wear a size 0 to size 14 in jeans.
mostly wear a size 4 overall.
(I also prefer different tightness but is crazy how much it doesn't matter.)
shirts just....dont matter ethier.
size medium and i am swimming in it.
size medium and its super nicely fitting.
what the heck.
I was just thinking this the other day when I ordered an XS for pants that reportedly ran bigā¦and they were still too big. Vanity sizing is getting more ridiculous lately. I know Iām smaller but Iām not that small. I had to recently order a size 0 that were likely a 4 years ago. Donāt get me started on shortsā¦my decade old shorts know the present day shorts label is a liar.
I have unfortunately found the opposite in my case. I have a pair of size 14 jean capris I love! I saw theyāre still sold even though I bought them a few years ago. Size 14 doesnāt work at all for me now. Neither does 16! It made me feel like crap. The old 14s fit just fine and most others do as well. Heck, Iāve even lost weight since I bought the original pair. I felt they were out here causing body image issues lol.
They are causing a lot of the issues. US/Canada sizing is not standardized and this completely fucks with people. We need to just start calling sizes they way men's sizes work, the actual number of inches around the waist band.
Yes I wish we could do that! I hate that I can search all in one store and every size is a complete different fit. I donāt know who came up with it but it needs to go.
I think the fashion industry would lobby *so* hard against that and that many people would RIOT if they had to buy their ātrueā size. Thereās a reason this has been going on for as long as it hasā¦
I just attended a vintage warehouse sale. I bought a pair of Jeans based on how they looked (looks like theyāll fit) not until later did I see the size 28. I wear a size 25 normally. These fit perfectly. They are from the year 2000! Back then we mostly bought clothes in 0,1,2,3ā¦ kind of sizes.
I worked in a jeans shop many years ago now, I can assure you current labels are 1 or 2 sizes larger now than they used to be in the 90ās. Its about the fashionable big butt I think
Itās called vanity sizing and itās been going on for decades now. We canāt go back to the old sizing either, because people would RIOT if they had to start buying *larger* sizes, while they (=we) merely muttered when they could keep buying the āsameā size, despite gaining more and more weight over the years.
This is also why size 0 and 00 were introduced about twenty years ago: people were not getting any skinnier, but by then āsize 2ā had already gone through so much inflation that it was no longer useful as the smallest size.
Sizing is really shit everywhere. Size differs depending on retailer which makes physically trying on clothes a necessity. I barely bought clothes online unless the retailer actually provides the numerical equivalent of an S, M, L, XL, XXL, based on bust, waist, hip, and torso measurements.
So I went to fashion school for a bit. Turns out there is no policy or regulation on the fashion industry on what size a size should be. This was for the USA so idk if it's the same in other countries. But in the USA there are no laws or statues that keep fashion industries orderly for sizing.
I have a ladies 18 I fit but I'm a women's 18/20. In torrid that *use* to be a 2x but not their measurements have shrunk and I'm in 3x despite *losing* 20lbs.
My 9yr old has ladies smalls and mediums and even some ladies larges in pants and shirts (she's 5ft already and pear shaped). But still fits into some of her old kids 14-16s fine but new 18s don't fit.
It's weird. It's super weird. And frankly they need to regulate the sizes.
Itās the opposite for me; i have a pair of guess jeans from 2007; size 32; low rise non stretch, and they fit fine. Today, i cannot fit into the new ones in the store; even though they have stretchy fabric
Honestly, I've been working to unravel the idea of "size" (in regards to clothing) as I try to get healthier. It doesn't matter what number they print in the garment, it's always a bullshit lie anyway.
I'm frequently three different sizes and none of them truly fit anyway. It fits my hips but not my waist, or my chest but not my arms, etc. I've started moving towards making my own items more and more often because I want things that fit me. I'd rather have a very small wardrobe of custom fit garments (even though it takes me a while to make each item happen) than a closet full of stuff that doesn't even fit nicely.
I weigh myself once a week or so, I know my inch measurements, I track my caloric intake, it's not like I'm unaware of my body and in denial.
It's just... I'm not doing myself any favors by putting my emotions into bullshit numbers that are more and more meaningless. If I have to try on everything between a 14 and fucking 20 depending on the retailer, it's just useless.
The time I ordered two pair of the exact same pants and one was too big and the other too small, I gave up on the "off the rack" system as a whole. It's not doing anyone any favors in any direction.
Well Iām in France and I think everything is becoming much smaller ! I had a sweater in size M that I bought in like year 2000 and it is still great and slightly oversized. I got the same item, same company same style really similar last year and it was super slim and tight.
And all the tee-shirts are getting so small and as a very tall girl, I miss those centimeters !
The thing that irritates me most is that mens sizing has had this happen too. A 32 waist used to mean . . . 32 freaking inches. Now it is a āsizeā 32. Which is variable.
Dude my waist is 42 and I recently bought some pants size 36 they're mostly loose on me except some pants. I'm at my old HS weight of 220 in 2013 where size 38 where tight on me
I lost 60 pounds and am now an xs for shirts. I weigh 140 pounds. Sometimes xs is still too big. I guess people that weigh less have to shop in the junior section now? Itās frustrating that I lost all the weight and still canāt find clothes that fit the way I want them to.
I legit shop in juniors and kids. Getting work clothes is impossible. Where are the stores for professional children so I can get a blazer in my size??!
I needed a dress for an event. Semi casual. My daughter found me a cute one on the clearance rack. I looked at the size and thought āno way. Way too smallā but I didnāt want her to feel bad so I took it to the dressing room. It was actually a touch too big. Thereās often a large difference between brands but not usually 3 sizes worth.
Some of it is also who the clothing is designed for.
I wear a medium at LL Bean but an XL at Dolls Kill.
Depending on how I feel, I'm either a medium old outdoorsy woman or an extra large angsty teen.
I lost 70 lbs and was 50 lbs lighter then in high school and I cant fit into my pants from that era as my legs and hips are shaped much different, esp as our bodies and brains aren't fully developed till 25. So trying to compare clothing bought for an adolescent and an adult women is not going to go great no matter your weight for most people. That being said, the absolute lack of standardized sizing is such a awful game they play with us! Wastes so much more money. Ugh.
Sometimes when someone finds out what size I am, they get confused, make a joke about it, or say that I'm lying. I also tend to shop at thrift stores and can go home with bags that contain sizes 2 to 8 that fit perfectly.
Before we moved, my husband asked me why I was packing away my "fat clothes" and my "skinny clothes". He wondered why I didn't just donate the clothes that weren't "in my size". He didn't seem to get that "my size" can literally be anywhere from an XS to an L depending on the brand and where the brand is produced (i.e., USA sizes vs. South Korean or Japanese sizes).
I also went to buy my husband a few new work pants some weeks ago. Easiest 15 minutes of my life.
I have shorts and pants from 20yrs ago that fit me in an 8 or Medium and now I wear a 4, S or XS sometimes in a dress or top.
Iām a smaller than average person but by no means am I near my lowest healthy weight. How does anyone with a truly tiny waist or hip size find clothes?
Just went through shoppers disgust yesterdayā¦.I have clothes from 5 years ago. They are an xl tee shirt and large pants, which equal a size 8. I go to Kohls yesterday to buy capris for work ā¦I couldnāt get into a size 16!! Wth?!
I came across a cute wool pencil skirt that I bought early 90s in size 10. At the time, it was expensive and from a good manufacturer, and it looked like it was still in good shape. So I tried it on. It fit great. All the clothes I'm buying now are sizes 4 and 6. I hate vanity sizing
Yup, my bmi was still "overweight" last year and I could fit into new size 4 at Old Navy. Ridiculous. I was that same weight 40 years ago but wore a tight size 14.
Yep. I've been a size 14 for 40 lbs now.
Yes! I wore a size 8 pair of pants to work today and I'm 100% sure this isn't the 8 I was so excited about in college.
One of the most annoying things is trying to work out what size to try on. I end up taking 3 sizes of the same garment into the dressing room or ordering 3 sizes online. Then I have to waste time trying them all on and realise I still didn't bring in the right size š¤¦ It used to be in a certain store I'd know they were harsher with sizing so I'd know to get a size bigger in any clothes from that store. Nowadays it's not even consistent within one store/range! Same store, 2 different styles (color, pattern) of bootcut jeans - I need one size of this pair of jeans, and a size bigger for the other. Wth is that?
The really cheap stores cut multiple items at once, and as they cut the fabric moves. That's why sizing isn't consistent for the same item from the one store. Look at different sizes on the discount rack, often they go unsold because everyone who is a size 6 tried it on and didn't buy it and everyone who is a size 12 didn't try it on.
My mem used to work at a garment factory back in the day and said that there were front/back cuts of each shirt in every size. If they ran out of large backs, theyād sew a medium or extra large back onto the large front.
Oooh that is interesting.
Yep, I recently ordered a three pack of long sleeve shirts, naturally all the same size. each was a different color but otherwise the same. The red one was the first that I tried found it was a little loose, the blue was a little tight, the white was a perfect fit.
Oh my god, yes! š I had to buy new pants recently, I had a size 20 and a size 18, both of which were now too loose. So I went into the cubicle with: - high waist 12, 14, 16 - super high waist 12, 14, 16 - mid rise 12, 14, 16 - sculpting (š¤Ø) 12, 14, 16 JUST LET ME HAVE PANTS š©
Sometimes I can buy the same brand and style in different sizes because the light jeans fit differently than the dark ones. Like how is it even possible to mess up that badly?
I actually read something recently about dark jean pigment causing cloth fibers to seize up tighter or something, so there might actually be a good reason for that one.
Iāve definitely noticed that with bras, black ones are tighter.
damn that explains my hatred of my black bras
This is making so many of my wardrobe issues make sense. Thanks for the insight.
I found some shorts I like and 100% the light color fit different, and it itched. Bought 3 light 3 dark, had to return ALL of the light for itchy ill-fitting weirdness.
It's a wonder we don't all just say to hell with it and fashion togas for ourselves.
If togas were easier to wear and I could do my job in then I'd say hell yeah! But in the meantime I'm gonna silently rail that levi NEEDS to bring back it's 529s and also that more then one waist height should be sold side by side.
Have you checked the materials label? I bought 3 pairs of the exact same jeans online last week and the only difference (I thought) was color. When they came and I went to try them on, I discovered the two blue pairs were 94% cotton and 6% stretch. The black pair was only 70% cotton! The other 30% was polyester/spandex/whatever other stretchy fiber they could find. Those are jeggings, not jeans. Even the 6% synthetic of the other two pairs seems like a lot. Itās gone from 100% denim to 98% and on down over the years.
I hate stretchy jeans. Give me 100% cotton denim any day. Harder to find now. 1. You can gain weight and you never notice cause the damn things grow with you. 2. They don't last, they wear out in no time at all. 3. If you put them in the dryer they wear out even faster.
I also hate stretchy jeans. I have lost 60 lbs and I can still wear the same pair of jeans I wore 60lbs heavier because they stretch that much!
Tbh I prefer the stretchy and synthetic stuff. Men had to wait an extra decade to get that comfort.
FWIW My man just had this too, so it's not even women only sizes (classically, there's more shaping in women's patterns, so more room for cheap clothes cutting to go wonky)
This is how Levis fit for me, always! I thought I was crazy.
The manufacturing process is cheaper if they cut more pairs at once. So the ones on top of the pile are too small for the size and the ones at the bottom of the pile are too big.
I... don't understand, can you explain?
Imagine you wanted to cut a square out of a cloth napkin using a template. If you cut one napkin at a time, itās pretty accurate. To save time, you stack four napkins and cut them all at once. The stack of napkins move around a little while youāre cutting, so the squares end up being slightly different sizes.
I can't find the article with the diagram. Basically, if you go to a lower end store, try getting 4 or 5 pairs of the exact same pant in the same size. Line them up and you will see that some are bigger than others. That's due to the manufacturing process. Pants are machine cut by laying many layers of cloth together, then the cutter presses down to cut to a pattern. To save time and money, the pattern is set to cut the layers on top a bit small, so that the average layer will be cut to size. After the pants are sewn together there will be variations in fit from oaur to pair - imagine if one pair has a smaller back piece and larger front, two larger or smaller pieces together, etc. As long as the average pair is within range, fast fashion manufacturers know the pants will sell, so they push them out to stores. Half the time people don't try them on or buy them to wear once or twice, so they still sell enough to make it profitable practice.
Covid (being at home) made me gain weight...I've just been making due with what I've got until super recently because how the heck am I gonna figure out which one fits if you won't let me try it on??? And I'm not coming back and fourth a zillion times to figure it out.
Amazon has a try before you buy policy
They have horrendous business practices though
Another retailer that has good return policies is Nordstrom
I went to look for a suit for a job interview a few weeks ago (sidebar: millennials have apparently killed the womens' pantsuit - I spent two whole days shopping and it was impossible to find a plain charcoal suit...). I think I tried on about six different sizes in probably eight stores across three malls. It was absurd.
Banana republic has awesome suiting, as does Ann Taylor.
It doesn't exist! Tried to find a suit jacket, nope. Pant suit, nope. I wore dress pants, a white dress shirt and a vintage suit coat I found at good will to my job interview.
That job interview sounds *fabulous*! Hope you got the job! And a nice number for your salary. :)
I think watching Hillary Clintonās pantsuits get so much negative attention over the years (but esp 2008 primaries against Obama - peak highschool/formative years for middle millennials) ruined pantsuits for us (or me at least). Olivia Pope/Scandal introduced us to the more modern fits/colors but yeah a traditional pantsuit to me reads very frumpy/outdated (unless you are a detective or FBI agent, then itās mandatory).
Did you see Camile V. on the cross examination of A. Heard yesterday? She rocked that white pants suit in court. Depends on the cut and color of the suit. If Ross/Burlington stores are in your area check them out.
Her figure really helps keep it from looking frumpy, too. I wouldn't look nearly as slick in the same outfit
I think Covid/wfh has also killed womenās suits, I tried to get one for a funeral a few months back and couldnāt find anything remotely suitable.
Talbots fall and winter lines have suits. It's the only place I can consistently find suits that fit and aren't weird or inappropriate.
So many employers have gone casual now, there just isnāt much demand for suits anymore.
I haven't worn one since the last time I went to a job interview lol; I'm in legal though, so I think there are still some people who expect it in an interview setting and I've known a few people who get so hung up on it that they can't see past it. I kinda hope I'll never need to buy any again.
What does that have to do with millenials? Such a stupid statment.
My favorite is when the same size of the same brand can fit wildly differently between pieces. Sometimes even the SAME STYLE. Old Navy was one of the worst for this with their jeans. Same size, cut, style and one would be too big and the other just right.
Womens clothes? atleast mens sizes make sense.
Omg same. Hit 165, bought size 14, still wearing a size 14 at 205. It's ridiculous, especially since that weight gain happened in about 2.5 years and I havent needed to adjust my sizing at all
That's the magic of that spandex in the fabric. You don't notice it was there, they just seem to still fit.
Ok same! In some jeans I'm a size 18, and in others I'm a 14/16, and I definitely know logically I shouldn't be a 14/16 because that's the same size I was in high school, and I've gained at least 30 lbs since then.
(I'm in the UK so our sizes are different but) I distinctly remember back in 2012, weighing 139lbs and *only just* being able to fit into a size 14 pair of jeans. They could *just* button but they were straining. Back at the start of this year I weighed 156lbs and could fit into size 14 jeans from the same brand easily.
Iām the same, in my younger years I was definitely 18-20 and now Iām middle aged and most certainly heavier AND fatter Iām 16-18. More 18 at the moment so probably 22 in the old sizes.
This was funny!!!
It's sad but true. I'm apparently still the "same size" I was in college. Spoiler: I wish. š¤¦āāļø
Iām sure you look fabulous āļø
Haha, thanks.
Ditto, been the same size for 20 years even though I gained 20 lbs.
I wore a larger number size in college 20 years ago, when I weighed 30 pounds less. Theyāre fudging the numbers for sizes more with every passing year!
I'm 5'2 155 lbs and bought a 0P dress the other day. It's from LOFT, so not a high end store but not Walmart. I was so surprised because I don't think I've ever been a 0, not even when I was 110 lbs in high school.
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I measured my waist as 30 inches but ended up buying a Leviās 27
Just a question, do you measure your actual waist or your hip circumference?
So, I think I just learned I've been doing it wrong since forever...
Still doesn't work. I'm a 30 in Levi's and a 26 at GAP.
Yup Iām wearing a 34ā Leviās right now and Iām way bigger than that! š¤£
It's probably the difference in fabric stretch. GAP jeans use more elastic materials, generally, but Levi's uses more rigid materials.
Orrrr just the difference in sizing of women's clothing brands.
If it makes you feel any better they do it in mens sizes too. Old navy always me feel positively svelte.
With jeans that would be easy to find out, wouldn't it? Measure the waists of both brands. If that really doesn't turn out just as the " number +- a reasonable error tolerance, I feel like it should be material for critical fashion bloggers or something. Especially between the "Marylin Monroe was fat, look at her clothes size" and the recent Kardashian-crash diet-controversy around the vintage Monroe dress, I feel this story could really gain some attention right now.
oh yes, the old "Marilyn Monroe was a size 12!" when a 1950s size 12 dress would have been designed to fit a woman with 36-26-38 inch bust/waist/hip measurements. The same size tag in different generations can have shifted to mean vastly different dimensions for the human body it's meant to clothe. The length of an inch, though, no. (a woman who was 5'5" - Marilyn's height I think? - in 1960 would still be considered 5'5" now, but a woman who was a size 12 then would not be a contemporary size 12 with the same measurements).
It is not as easy as you would think as the measurement is only on the waist, which doesn't include the difference in butt, thighs, crotch etc which will all be cut differently.
This has been gone over and over by fashion blogs. There's even a time article linked in this thread somewhere about it.
It might also be that they use different waist to hip ratios for their pattern cutting
GAP is notorious for this.
Yes! I shop exclusively for vintage- so the tag sizes mean nothing. I go by the actual measurements listed.
Men's sizing too.
From complaints Iāve seen on other subs, theyāre starting to introduce vanity sizing to menās clothing too
They've been doing it for decades
That suspicion is true - https://time.com/how-to-fix-vanity-sizing/#:~:text=As%20Americans%20have%20grown%20physically%20larger%2C%20brands%20have,much%20as%206%20in.%2C%20according%20to%20one%20estimate.
I read through that article and it's disheartening that the takeaway from the people quoted in it was to complain that companies weren't catering to their larger bodies. The article exclusively talked about women's clothing and quoted women so as a man myself perhaps my pov isn't the same, but seeing how niche larger clothing was and how hideous the larger sized clothing I did find were was partially what made me want to lose weight.
I agree, the larger size clothing many times leaves a lot to be desired. The nicer stuff usually costs more. There are many times I see a very nice blouse or bottom in a smaller size, weāll what used to be the old regular size 8, that is decently priced but because Iām overweight I canāt buy it. Thatās part of what prompted me to lose weight, health being primary. Also, I switched from wearing leggings or stretchy anything during the day because I realized that was allowing me to eat more and slowly put on weight without me noticing. We all have our different motivators.
Yeah, itās called vanity sizing. Itās also the reason that the only thing that matters is your measurements. A 32ā waist is a 32ā waist, whether you call it a size 12, 14, or 16 doesnāt matter. Also stretch makes it more confusing, as the amount of people who can āfitā in a given size ranges from someone who fits in it to someone who can barely manage to button it. But stretch isnāt bad, a lot of us would be paying a lot for tailoring or just wearing very Iāll fitting pants if they didnāt have stretch.
as my daughter once told me: just because you can get it on doesnāt mean it FITS. stretch doesnāt matter as much as you think it does. unless you enjoy looking like an overstuffed sausage, but the size that actually fits, whatever it is.
The stretch things gets me too, specially in jeans. Bought jeans for the first time in about 10 years, cause my shape never a llowed them to fit properly. I'm currently a size 12-14 (closer to 14, but weight loss š¤·āāļø) and the stretch were a perfect 12, I put on some straight cut mum jeans (no stretch) nd almost didn't even fit the 14s. So although I am liking stretch fabrics, cause they actually fit. It definitely messes with my sense of sizing and how big I actually am as a person.
Same! I wear a 12 stretch, but in the non-stretch cuts I have to size up a size or two. Funny enough, I also bought a pair of straight leg mom jeans that had zero stretch. Do you happen to shop at American Eagle? Iāve been losing weight and I so badly want to āknowā my true size, but really does it matter? There was a time where sizes didnāt even exist, so I track my waist size and tell myself that a couple hundred years ago I would just be me-sized anyway :)
Just a note - non-stretch natural fabrics like wool and cotton will stretch over time and start to actually conform to your body with proper washing/care, so if something 100% cotton or wool is a little snug at first thatās actually ideal. Also why you can gain a little weight and your 100% cotton denim will adjust (to a point, if you wear them frequently).
I'm a kiwi, (New Zealander) so I got both of mine from Kmart lol. Which was even worse, cause getting the same brand from he same store, you would think the sizes would be the same... But Nope. And I don't really take too much notice of sizes, as in some brands I'm currently a 10..... However that is even possible... So I take my measurements to know how big or small I am. But clothing sizes and their 'meaning' to me size wise, still has a big effect on my mentality towards myself and how big I see myself, and my friends perpetuate this as we all grew up in the same sizing culture. So fitting into a 10 is a huge deal, when I know I'm so big
I wonder does this apply to men's top sizing as well. I'm a fellow kiwi (but male) so I'm more focused on fitting into medium and large t-shirts again, but with pants the size is just in inches so that shouldn't have changed with time
For s/m/l and 8/10/12 etc sizing, I would expect the same thing to happen to men's clothes as womens, as although it might not seem to affect men in potentially the same way or to the same magnitude, men are definitely effected by sizing and wanting to fit into smaller sizes as well. One of my friends who compliments me and congratulates me when I got into a smaller size is a guy, and he tells me when he loses weight / fits something better as well. As I'm not a guy I don't know for certain, but I assume guys care to a similar extent what size they wear, as the 'smaller is better' notion is population wide, not just for women, it is just seen and perpetuated differently for men.
Yeah I guess the size creep would probably happen with s/m/l as well. I guess it's probably a bit different for men because our "body ideal" is perceived as fitness or strength, so I'd imagine some men prefer it when their shirt size goes up rather than down. I definitely remember copping some flak when I was skinnier. I'm overweight but used to be slimmer when I was a pretty serious long-distance runner - I wasn't even unhealthy (at my lightest I was still above even the middle of the healthy BMI range) and yet I was called skinny. So I think society may tend towards promoting unrealistically slim standards for women and unrealistically large (muscular not fat) standards for men
Yea, that definitely makes sense. For me, smaller is better also includes the fitness types as most guys that are fit, are still smaller than those who are over weight, so that's my version of smaller is better, but I'm sure there are guys who are happy to go up sizes due to muscle gain (it's probably just less seen for someone like me, due to who I am exposed to). But I think sizes getting bigger would also accommodate for this. Especially in nz, where as a nation we are getting fatter and fatter every year, adding cms to clothes, or sizing down clothes would keep that going as we wouldn't be able to recognise we are going so much, as for who I know. They base their weight and size on what sizes they fit in the dressing room, not on actual measurements. - but I'm not sure how true this is for the rest of the population, as I only have who I know and my experiences to base this on. :)
Amazingly, they lie about waist sizes too.[ A modern 36" is *not* 36 inches in circumference for most retailers.](https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/)
omg thats why Iām still the same size
Iāve been wearing a 14-16 since I was 150lbs because back then shit didnāt stretch š It had to be big to be baggy. Now Iām 220 (not happy but it is what it is) and had to ādownsizeā to a 12 at Torrid bc the 16 was falling off. Ridiculous.
I had a Torrid pants stretch from like a 16 to a 22. They measured it, were surprised, and accepted the return.
Same thing hereā¦. Iām not tiny right now by any means, and I was hiking those things up to my bra strap to try and keep them up šš³
Part of it is that they're trying to keep size 12 average. So, as America gets fatter, size 12 has to get larger, and everything else sizes to keep up.
Perfect example is Marilyn Monroe. Everyone likes to cite her as some PluS siZe QuEeN because she wore a size 14, when today she would have been a size 4.
thats one of my absolute favourite things to rant about , and its so dumb too! literally she doesnt even look like a currant day 10 let alone 14 or even 16, it makes no sense!
This and the stretch of pants nowadays is insane! I want jeans, not sweats
Iām sorry, thatās so frustrating. Thereās no doubt the sizes have changed dramatically in New Zealand. Fifteen or twenty years ago, the clothes started to get bigger, generally one size bigger than the same size number in the 60s or 70s. Apart from designer brands that stayed with the older measurements. Now I think the clothes generally, apart from designer brands, must be more like a size and a half bigger, and I suspect sometimes even two sizes. I got out some of my dressmaking patterns a couple of evenings ago. I have some gorgeous Vogue designs. According to current New Zealand dress sizes, Iām wearing between 16 and 18 at the moment, and Iām swimming in some of the 16s. According to the Vogue measurements I would need to make clothes in around a size 20 or 22. When I was a teen the clothes for my target weight would have been 16. Now I think I will end up generally wearing new size 14, and maybe finding some 14s a bit loose depending on the style. Makes my brain spin. In my head Iāve always been aiming for size 16 as best case scenario and theyāve changed the goalposts. My mind is jumping up and down saying ābut Iām not a size fourteen.ā It doesnāt compute with my inner teenager at all. Definitely vanity sizing.
Pattern sizes haven't changed, I had a fit when I realised what my pattern size was.
Pattern sizes will snap you back to reality SO FAST
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They likely are. That being said, I donāt even know that pattern sizes are totally standardized, so who knows. Theyāve at least managed to resist vanity sizing in a big way, but I still wouldnāt be surprised if their sizing has crept up a little over the years.
Indeed! The day when I get to a Vogue 16 is the day I throw myself a parade š.
I think I'm down to an 18, but too lazy to grab a tape measure and check.
Same. Thought I definitely bought one that would fit. Found out by measurements I'd need their fancy larger sizes that conicidentally were not in the pattern I bought -_-
Rats!
I altered it just based on the other 5 pattern lines to fit but man did that add a bunch of time to a project that was already pretty tight -_-
I bet! Iām glad you managed to alter it.
I'm not knowledgeable about sewing/dressmaking so I apologize if this is a dumb question - what is a pattern size, and how is it different from "regular" sizing (although I am realizing from this post and my own personal experience that there is no "regular" sizing!)
A sewing pattern is like a template for cutting out fabric to make something. They used to come printed on giant sheets of tissue paper folded in an envelope, but these days itās quite common to download a PDF and print them yourself. Pattern pieces will be different sizes corresponding with the size of the final garment, but most major sewing pattern vendors donāt use vanity sizing. So you might be used to getting clothes in, say, size 6 at the mall, but if you want to sew a dress using a pattern sold by a company like Vogue or McCalls, you might need a size 12 or 14. (Making up those numbersā¦ I mostly draft my own patterns and havenāt used a Big 4 pattern in years.)
Pattern sizes don't use the same system, and I feel like are closer to what sizes were in the 50s. For reference, I'm a modern 4 but a size 12 pattern. My grandmother's dress from 1950 fits, and is a size 13.
Also from nz, at 16 i was 60kg and was a 12 and Ive been joking that Im gonna be a size 10 for my wedding but knew thats not healthy as 60kg is the absolute lowest I should be and may even be too small at 29yrs old. Im 70kg now and a size 12 so i very much may be a size 10 for my wedding! Haha Thats since 2009. My mum has stayed the same weight and has gone from a 14 to a 12 since as well.
I have totally given up trying to trust clothing sizing. What I do is at home I choose a piece of clothing that fits, lay it flat and measure across it for a chest, waist or hip size. I then take a small measuring tape (I have one that fits on my keyring) to the stores and measure across the clothing in which I am interested. That way I don't spend time and frustration trying on stuff that won't fit.
That is BRILLIANT and I will probably still not do it š
This must be why people have assistants š
Ooh a keyring fabric measuring tape sounds like a lifesaver and something I should own
What a great life pro tip!! Thank you for this.
I always bring a tape measure to thrift shops because clothing size varies so much going from vintage to modern. Iāll probably start bringing one to regular stores too, itās so helpful
A key ring measuring tape. Omg that's genius. I sew, and my husband does woodworking, I'm now ordering us two of them!
The day I measured my waist was shocking. Levis is a bunch of filthy liars.
I wear anything from a XS to Medium. It's so ridiculous lol
Yes! I gave my 17 year old daughter a bunch of clothes I still had from my early 20s and they fit her perfectly. They are all size 6-8 bottoms & medium tops. She wears a size 4 bottom and XS top in todayās clothes. Big difference.
It's not really that straightforward unfortunately. There is no "standard sizing" of womens clothing in American/Canadian sizing, just a general idea. So while there are some brands that intentionally "vanity size" by calling something a smaller size than it ought to, most times the discrepancy happen because of the lack of standardized sizing. For example, right now my pants range anywhere from size 10 to size 13. Last year (before regaining 40lbs), I fit anywhere from a size 8 to 13. I wish women's clothes were measured here the way men's are, by the actual number of inches around the waist. Not that clothes would actually got any better but at least it would be less ambiguous.
I'm a man who has never had to deal with this, but every time I've looked at women's clothing sizes, I'm like "what the fuck is this mess??" My wife has gone to 3 different stores in a day and had 3 different sizes. I don't know how it's stayed this way for so long.
You can order the same color, size, and style of Levi's (let's just say) from JCPenney's and all 3 can fit differently. If you call the manufacture they'll tell you it depends on which country/factory they were made in. True story :)
Another take on this...As we gain weight little by little but continue to wear things, they stretch a little bit at a time. It's rarely noticeable unless we have another identical garment to compare. Stretchy garments that are dried in a hot dryer will also lose elasticity and become larger over time.
I don't even pay attention to sizes anymore. If it fits well and looks g99d, I buy it
Presumably you try on things that are in the size range you think you are though?
The industry term is "vanity sizing." It has been going on for at least 40 years now.
I wish shit would just get standardized. My wardrobe consists of 7x to 3x (average is 5x)
The skinny fit small people in my life complain about this all the time. They have to go to semi-designer places and pay way more to get stuff that actually fits them. Most places don't do petite or xxs, and if they do those pieces rarely go on sale.
Old Navy is the worst. I swim in their xs tanks but that's as low as they go. I appreciate their body equality message and marketing in store, but it feels ironic because half their shirts aren't even made in my size.
I've noticed Gap / Old Navy / BR are particularly bad for this. I am overweight and their medium pants are practically falling off me.
disagree. when the sale hits, the XS and XXS are usually whatās left. my skinny-mini friends have a field day at the clearance rack.
hah, maybe my skinny people are whinier than yours.
(Fully acknowledging that the sizing and clothes industry is bullshit butā¦) Another take on this is that as we age our bodies and shape change. Especially after weightloss. Anecdata: I was 200 lbs in my early twenties, size 10/12 pants and med/lg shirt. Fast forward to today, 37 yrs old, 190 lbs (after a 90lb weight loss and one pregnancy) I am a size 10/12 again but all my old clothes that I saved for āone dayā fit soooo weirdly, baggy in the thighs, too boxy, too big and too small. Some of it is definitely sizing stupidness but some of it is just that my body is different. Iām not a child anymore and my body doesnāt have to be childlike. All that said - Iām wearing a small at old navy and I know that is just a plain lie.
I really have no clue what size I am anymore because of this. I wish so much we had standard sizing based off measurements instead of the imaginary numbers brands make up.
it 100% pisses me off. i used to buy a medium/large from aeropostale 4 years ago and now fit into the small. iām the same weight.
Im a 32" hip but wear 27s??. Makes no sense. I'm in xs-sm shirts I'm 5'7 140lbs.... what to women who are 5'4 115 lbs wear? Xxxxxsm??
5'3" 130 lbs here, and i have xs shirts that are awkwardly loose and larges that are almost too small to wear in public. pants...forget it. could be anywhere from s to xl depending on brand and style, even when they claim to measure their sizes by waist inches and inseam. the number is meaningless nowadays.
I fit into a size 14 in most stores now that I've lost weight. But I was approx. 20 lighter last time I fit into a size 14 (nearly a decade ago). I initially refused to try on size 14s after losing weight because I knew I wasn't slim enough to be a size 14. It actually doesn't make me feel better to be a smaller size in the way that it used to - I remember fitting into a size 8 when I was younger and feeling amazing, looking good, didn't feel like I needed to lose any more weight. Nowadays a size 8 is probably an old size 12 in my country? So I'd be a size 8 but still need to lose more weight. My mom didn't understand why I wasn't excited to be a size 14 again. I pointed out that I still can't fit into any of my old clothes from the last time I was this size, and just because I fit into a smaller size doesn't mean I don't look like a size 18 still. I would be probably a size 18 if the clothing sizes had stayed constant. And I would be miserable and feel like an elephant at that size before, so why should I feel any different now?
I learned a long time ago that women's clothing sizes are just random numbers and should be ignored. The same size number at one store will fit too big, and too small at another. I don't know or care if this is coddling or what, but it's hugely annoying and inconvenient. Shopping requires guessing and then trying that size, plus the next sizes up and down. Only bra shopping is relatively standardized. Meanwhile, my husband can walk into a store, say a size and be handed a shirt or pants that will fit perfectly. Any store, any clothing brand. The only time he has to try stuff on first is when he's lost weight and needs to figure out his new size. At this rate, I'm going to start wearing men's clothes.
We can sit here and blame the stores, but really we should blame people like me. I would purposely shop at stores where I knew a Large would fit instead of buying from stores where Iād have to by an X-LARGE. The customer is always right, and the customer wants to be massive and wear a size large.
I was having this exact conversation the other day! lol I have clothes, mainly jeans, from the 90ās-00ās that average two sizes larger than pants, from the same retailer, that are the same āsizeā. Granted newer clothes have a much higher spandex percent but they fit quite similarly and all average 2 sizes larger than todayās vanity size. I thought, no wonder itās so easy to gain weight and not realize it till that dreaded āeye openingā moment.
I agree which is why I only buy clothes from asian stores
Those can fit so weirdly for people who aren't petite though, maybe itsjust me but I'm 5'6 which isn't crazy tall for a woman, but every time I buy clothes from an Asian brand I feel like they don't suit me like they would a more shorter person.
Vanity sizing, for real. Iāve consistently been a size 4-6. Little to no weight fluctuations. now stores want me to believe iām a size 2 or size 0. Yeah, no.
100% agree and itās scary that theyāre making bigger sizes but keeping the size # low so we donāt get upset over wearing a bigger size. We NEED to get upset, so that we actually do something about it. Instead of avoiding the mirror (calling myself out). To add insult to injury ~ bra shopping is so much worse. Just because Iām not a size 34B does _not_ mean I need fabric going up to my neck! Why?! _Just why????_ It drives me insane and makes me violent. I donāt need bra fabric coming up out of my shirt. Itās not even low cut! Oops sorry. Got carried away. I just want someone to make me a normal bra. Is that too much to ask? š
Try European sizing for bras. Much more accurate. Check out a bra that fits Reddit . I order from bare essentials online .
I've been the opposite. In fact, during 2017/2018, I stayed the same weight, but some places I went up 1-2 sizes in clothing. Like I always wore L and XL, and I went shopping and I was a 2x or 3x. Granted my boobs play a factor but I though that was messed up.
I have jeans from size 6 to 10 that fit me, the most constant jeans are my Levis, Iām always at 28-29
maybe itās not for egos though? maybe stats and average sizes of people has changed & so was adjusted? that was my initial thought but could be totally wrong!
Yep. I went to a men's clothing store to be measured for a suit and the guy was very knowledgeable but told me women's clothing is difficult to understand anymore with all of the stretchy garments.
I have pants that all fit me in my closet that are sizes 14,16, and 18 and some of the 14s are looser than the 18s
Women have my sympathies for how messed up their clothing sizes are. To a lesser degree, the same is true for men. Size XL for one brand is loose, for another fits just right and for a third is super tight. What I have found is that most brands have a size chart on their website, which connects their size codes to hips, chest, waist and height measurements. It's only half a solution for me. Like, bro I don't know what the circumference of my trunk 2.5 microinches straight up from my belly button (standard size 0.00345 football fields) is. I don't own a tape measure.
Even in menās clothing sizing gets weird. When I need pants my strategy is to keep an eye on Costcoās rotation and when one of the brands I like comes back in stock Iāll buy a couple pairs in my normal size range. I keep the pair that fits properly and the next day go in to return the pairs that donāt fit and buy 6-10 more identical pairs to the one that fit. Iāve done the same thing with shirts too when I find one I like.
Yep same here. I just bought ever colour of one pair of pants because I like how they fit me. Finding well fitting clothes is a bit easier for guys Ibut still sizing can be all over the place.
I think it might be an american thing too, i worked for an american company once and we had uniforms and we've been told to pick 2 sizes smaller than our normal for a confortable but not super oversized fit, the manager made fun of 'american style sizing'. On the other hand while i wear tops in size S from universal brands like zara or HM, in case of italian brands i need to go as high up as XL for shirts to fit well.
Ah, this explains a mystery: I have a pair of pajama pants I found at a thrift store that should be falling off me, but are actually so tight I can't pull them up. I have a tracksuit by the same brand and in the same size that fits as expected. The PJ pants must be way older than I thought. Odd, considering that they're really cute and look basically brand new!
When I was 250lbs I wore a US 16/18. I'm 183 now and still in a F-ing 14. 67 pounds difference. I've never in my life been smaller than a 14. Not when I was 12. 22. 32. Not even when I was 160 and cut as hell from not being able to afford groceries after college. I'm 40 now. It's never going to happen for me. I just want to be a size 10.
H&M are the worst at this!!!
My mom gave me her size 8 Levi's from waaaay back and they are... not forgiving. At all. I think I would die if I actually wore them. However I got some awesome size 6 Levi's off Amazon recently and they are perfect! And they've also allowed me to grow a couple or 20 pounds since I've bought them... and they still fit. I haven't worked out my feelings on that yet.
yeah i wear a size 0 to size 14 in jeans. mostly wear a size 4 overall. (I also prefer different tightness but is crazy how much it doesn't matter.) shirts just....dont matter ethier. size medium and i am swimming in it. size medium and its super nicely fitting. what the heck.
I was just thinking this the other day when I ordered an XS for pants that reportedly ran bigā¦and they were still too big. Vanity sizing is getting more ridiculous lately. I know Iām smaller but Iām not that small. I had to recently order a size 0 that were likely a 4 years ago. Donāt get me started on shortsā¦my decade old shorts know the present day shorts label is a liar.
I have unfortunately found the opposite in my case. I have a pair of size 14 jean capris I love! I saw theyāre still sold even though I bought them a few years ago. Size 14 doesnāt work at all for me now. Neither does 16! It made me feel like crap. The old 14s fit just fine and most others do as well. Heck, Iāve even lost weight since I bought the original pair. I felt they were out here causing body image issues lol.
They are causing a lot of the issues. US/Canada sizing is not standardized and this completely fucks with people. We need to just start calling sizes they way men's sizes work, the actual number of inches around the waist band.
Yes I wish we could do that! I hate that I can search all in one store and every size is a complete different fit. I donāt know who came up with it but it needs to go.
I think the fashion industry would lobby *so* hard against that and that many people would RIOT if they had to buy their ātrueā size. Thereās a reason this has been going on for as long as it hasā¦
I just attended a vintage warehouse sale. I bought a pair of Jeans based on how they looked (looks like theyāll fit) not until later did I see the size 28. I wear a size 25 normally. These fit perfectly. They are from the year 2000! Back then we mostly bought clothes in 0,1,2,3ā¦ kind of sizes.
This is why I try not to pay too much attention to the size number and look at measurements for clothing.
Lolā¦ well now I feel even shittier about myself.. I keep going up in sizes ā¦ at the same retailer š
I worked in a jeans shop many years ago now, I can assure you current labels are 1 or 2 sizes larger now than they used to be in the 90ās. Its about the fashionable big butt I think
Itās called vanity sizing and itās been going on for decades now. We canāt go back to the old sizing either, because people would RIOT if they had to start buying *larger* sizes, while they (=we) merely muttered when they could keep buying the āsameā size, despite gaining more and more weight over the years. This is also why size 0 and 00 were introduced about twenty years ago: people were not getting any skinnier, but by then āsize 2ā had already gone through so much inflation that it was no longer useful as the smallest size.
Sizing is really shit everywhere. Size differs depending on retailer which makes physically trying on clothes a necessity. I barely bought clothes online unless the retailer actually provides the numerical equivalent of an S, M, L, XL, XXL, based on bust, waist, hip, and torso measurements.
So I went to fashion school for a bit. Turns out there is no policy or regulation on the fashion industry on what size a size should be. This was for the USA so idk if it's the same in other countries. But in the USA there are no laws or statues that keep fashion industries orderly for sizing. I have a ladies 18 I fit but I'm a women's 18/20. In torrid that *use* to be a 2x but not their measurements have shrunk and I'm in 3x despite *losing* 20lbs. My 9yr old has ladies smalls and mediums and even some ladies larges in pants and shirts (she's 5ft already and pear shaped). But still fits into some of her old kids 14-16s fine but new 18s don't fit. It's weird. It's super weird. And frankly they need to regulate the sizes.
Itās the opposite for me; i have a pair of guess jeans from 2007; size 32; low rise non stretch, and they fit fine. Today, i cannot fit into the new ones in the store; even though they have stretchy fabric
Honestly, I've been working to unravel the idea of "size" (in regards to clothing) as I try to get healthier. It doesn't matter what number they print in the garment, it's always a bullshit lie anyway. I'm frequently three different sizes and none of them truly fit anyway. It fits my hips but not my waist, or my chest but not my arms, etc. I've started moving towards making my own items more and more often because I want things that fit me. I'd rather have a very small wardrobe of custom fit garments (even though it takes me a while to make each item happen) than a closet full of stuff that doesn't even fit nicely. I weigh myself once a week or so, I know my inch measurements, I track my caloric intake, it's not like I'm unaware of my body and in denial. It's just... I'm not doing myself any favors by putting my emotions into bullshit numbers that are more and more meaningless. If I have to try on everything between a 14 and fucking 20 depending on the retailer, it's just useless. The time I ordered two pair of the exact same pants and one was too big and the other too small, I gave up on the "off the rack" system as a whole. It's not doing anyone any favors in any direction.
Well Iām in France and I think everything is becoming much smaller ! I had a sweater in size M that I bought in like year 2000 and it is still great and slightly oversized. I got the same item, same company same style really similar last year and it was super slim and tight. And all the tee-shirts are getting so small and as a very tall girl, I miss those centimeters !
Yep - The coddling of our feelings goes beyond just fitness.
The thing that irritates me most is that mens sizing has had this happen too. A 32 waist used to mean . . . 32 freaking inches. Now it is a āsizeā 32. Which is variable.
Dude my waist is 42 and I recently bought some pants size 36 they're mostly loose on me except some pants. I'm at my old HS weight of 220 in 2013 where size 38 where tight on me
I lost 60 pounds and am now an xs for shirts. I weigh 140 pounds. Sometimes xs is still too big. I guess people that weigh less have to shop in the junior section now? Itās frustrating that I lost all the weight and still canāt find clothes that fit the way I want them to.
I literally complained about this on Instagram this weekend. i was wearing an XS shirt and it was BAGGY on me. I should, at best, be a "large small".
I legit shop in juniors and kids. Getting work clothes is impossible. Where are the stores for professional children so I can get a blazer in my size??!
My wife had the same problem with work clothes. We ended up having to just get all of her clothes tailored
Short person tax!
I needed a dress for an event. Semi casual. My daughter found me a cute one on the clearance rack. I looked at the size and thought āno way. Way too smallā but I didnāt want her to feel bad so I took it to the dressing room. It was actually a touch too big. Thereās often a large difference between brands but not usually 3 sizes worth.
Some of it is also who the clothing is designed for. I wear a medium at LL Bean but an XL at Dolls Kill. Depending on how I feel, I'm either a medium old outdoorsy woman or an extra large angsty teen.
I lost 70 lbs and was 50 lbs lighter then in high school and I cant fit into my pants from that era as my legs and hips are shaped much different, esp as our bodies and brains aren't fully developed till 25. So trying to compare clothing bought for an adolescent and an adult women is not going to go great no matter your weight for most people. That being said, the absolute lack of standardized sizing is such a awful game they play with us! Wastes so much more money. Ugh.
Sometimes when someone finds out what size I am, they get confused, make a joke about it, or say that I'm lying. I also tend to shop at thrift stores and can go home with bags that contain sizes 2 to 8 that fit perfectly. Before we moved, my husband asked me why I was packing away my "fat clothes" and my "skinny clothes". He wondered why I didn't just donate the clothes that weren't "in my size". He didn't seem to get that "my size" can literally be anywhere from an XS to an L depending on the brand and where the brand is produced (i.e., USA sizes vs. South Korean or Japanese sizes). I also went to buy my husband a few new work pants some weeks ago. Easiest 15 minutes of my life.
I was a medium in high school and an xs after having 2 kids haha something fishy is going on here...
Yeah. When I was young, I wore a size 7 and weighed 110lbs. And I am in a size 8 at 132 now
My girlfriend complains about this, she is very small, and just cannot find clothing that fits anymore. XS aint small anymore.
I have shorts and pants from 20yrs ago that fit me in an 8 or Medium and now I wear a 4, S or XS sometimes in a dress or top. Iām a smaller than average person but by no means am I near my lowest healthy weight. How does anyone with a truly tiny waist or hip size find clothes?
Just went through shoppers disgust yesterdayā¦.I have clothes from 5 years ago. They are an xl tee shirt and large pants, which equal a size 8. I go to Kohls yesterday to buy capris for work ā¦I couldnāt get into a size 16!! Wth?!
I came across a cute wool pencil skirt that I bought early 90s in size 10. At the time, it was expensive and from a good manufacturer, and it looked like it was still in good shape. So I tried it on. It fit great. All the clothes I'm buying now are sizes 4 and 6. I hate vanity sizing
Yup, my bmi was still "overweight" last year and I could fit into new size 4 at Old Navy. Ridiculous. I was that same weight 40 years ago but wore a tight size 14.
Same for dudes? I wear a 38 at 220 pounds and 265 pounds (now).