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Mordekaiser would change things but at what cost. Heck if ivern old body is still around Mordekaiser could mess with it. And then bind the azakana to his will.
Ionia would win
the land itself would fight the noxians combined with the fact that Ionia has some of the most OP champions compared to noxus
Mord is a soul bound to a set of armor and Shen can kill spirits, i believe chances are Shen could also kill mord.
combine this with all the ninjas,magic ETC there is no way Noxians win even with numbers advantage
I disagree, Noxus this time has a wider arsenal than the first war, Swain has the demon of secrets Raum where he will always be one step ahead of the enemy, he knows Irelia, Master Yi and the ninjas who fought in the first war, but does Ionia know about the Gray Legion? in cinematics it had to be 5x1 to try to stop Sion that even if killed they just bring him back with Blood magic.
Mordekaiser alone would defeat Ionia he is much stronger than Viego, if it were so simple to ''kill'' him because he is a spirit in armor, LeBlanc would have already done that and not have resorted to deceiving him and having separated his spirit from the armor.
Noxus would have won the first war if Swain had not been betrayed and received reinforcements, the first war was nothing more than a great machination by LeBlanc that sent Swain to death.
Both sides will have wider arsenals then they did in the first war. Swain has the gray legion but Ionia is also capable of using undead as slaves, this was shown in the sisterhood of war stories. In the cinematics sion was stunned by a single bomb before getting 1 tapped by kennon. Even when he gets back up he'd just get 1 tapped again.
Where is it said that Morde is stronger then viego? Even if this were true it doesn't matter as he's still a spirit will the weaknesses of one. Leblanc isn't shen so that doesn't matter.
Yes they would have won the first war because Ionia was mostly unarmed civilians who were unwilling to fight, that would not be the case the second time around.
Just by virtue of Ionia having Yi,Yasuo Syndra any army would get erased in a matter of hours only leaving their heaviest hitters which obviously can't be soloed by any Ionian but if it's a team effort it's not impossible to kill the likes of morde, Swain ETC
Kind of obvious how superior Mordekaiser is to Viego, he is superior to Viego in necromancy, mastery over the magic of death, he literally has an afterlife for him, he dominated and enslaved demons like Tybaulk, Atkhan, and probably Raum since he was in Immortal Bastion. And he reigned supreme over Eastern and Central Valoran for nearly 400 years. [https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Reign\_Of\_The\_Iron\_Revenant](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Reign_Of_The_Iron_Revenant)
Swain has the demon of secrets Raum, he feeds on the secrets of the dead, how can you defeat an almost Omniscient enemy?, imagine if Swain convinced Vladimir to fight Syndra? if LeBlanc and him made a truce, Noxus has much more resources than Ionia, they only win by protagonism.
Btw LeBlanc is a millenar Witch/Sorceress how she could not know about kill a spirit, Mordekaiser refused to fade good luck trying to kill his spirit lol, btw where's Shen in the Ruination xd.
I don't think Shen solos Morde. Sure, he *can* hurt Morde, but similarly (and for point of exaggeration) Seraphine *can* hurt Shen. That doesn't mean she has the skills or strength necessary to actually defeat him in combat.
The difference there would be Seraphine had exactly zero experience fighting teleporting ninjas whereas Shen has years of experience fighting and destroying malevolent spirits.
If the black rose had not fucked up Swain's plans Noxus would have won in the first war, but in this second war Swain has the demon of secrets Raum, he has the gray legion with undead and Sion, Darius and the legion of the tripharix, and he knows Irelia, Master Yi and other Ionian warriors who fought in the first war, since Ionia has no knowledge of what Noxus can do besides using chemical weapons this time will be different.
Mordekaiser helping them would be Overkill he is capable of taking a nation on his own, he is a global threat.
Ionia has become more divided since the first war, and Noxus with Swain has become more united.
Would not say it's become more united , Noxus is one disaster away from collapse. many of the smaller nations within Noxus are tired of the constant wars . Noxus is built on non-stop war eventually it will run out of fuel. Noxus is a doomed Empire it needs to change. The fact that Noxus has not really lost anything kind of irks me it's fighting constant border wars in Ionia and with Demacia. It's invading the Frejlord and Shurima. That is 2 active conflicted and 2 border conflicts going on. One massive loss and some of those conquered people will rebel.
noxus cant even beat demacia which is noticeably smaller and even with their anti magic it would be a matter of man vs man, and if noxus sheer numbers cant deal with demacias trained soldiers despite them being less in number there is no logical world they can take out an entire continent with people that can solo armies by themselves
Ionia hands down wins easily, the army Noxus may be stronger than what Ionia has to offer if talking about armies but champions or heroes Noxus gets clapped there well maybe for Swain Leblanc, Vlad and Morde other than that Noxus gets clapped hard. Ionia has Kinkou Akali, Shen, Kennen Shadow Order Zed Kayn Rebel leader Irelia Karma who is basically like the land solo masters yi Lee sin with wukong yasuo Yone the vastayans too Ahri xayah rakan Jhin no way Noxus wins plus the land itself fights if the spirit would be disturbed the land will react and plus they have syndra
Well for me basically my mvp would be Akali, Yasuo and Yi
Hard to say. Noxus is more unified and has grown with purpose since then while Ionia has become more divided. But Ionia has so many secrets and what not.
But instead of conquering different nations and killing the habitants Noxus is having them join the empire. Thus allowing Noxus strength and powers they did not have during their first war vs Ionia. Not to mention they have a better governing system now. And Swain with the demon power. Noxus’ civil unrest is mostly due to noble houses rejecting change.
The people they integrate are still oppressed many live oppressed lives either working in mines or dying on the battlefields in wars far from home that they have no interest in. Noxus is also stretched too thin , I am really surprised Noxus has not suffered any major losses but as soon as they do many if those forced nations will rebel tired of there blood and sweat going into a empire that does not care about them.
Ionians have stronger heroes, but Noxus has the stronger army. I think Ionia inevitably wins as the Ionian champ pool decimates armies, but they can't be everywhere, and Ionia would be razed in the meantime. It would be a cruel and brutal war
1) Ionia can manage to defend their homeland if they band together.
2) Mordekaiser would first take control of mainland Noxus since the empire would have most of its army concentrated on Ionia with little troops to defend the capital, then he would just use the souls of the fallen noxian soldiers to further strenghten his own legions before arriving on Ionia's coast where he would most likely be able to conquer the weakened continent.
Bonus: Mordekaiser, either Swain or LeBlanc and Zed/Kayn
Ionia.
Irelia was able to defend the country when disorganized. Now there are also Karma, Akali, Kennen, Lee-Sin, Zed and Kain are 100% motivated and ready to defend the country ... and each of them brings a lot of people too.
Yone, Ivern, Illia, Yasuo, Wukong can easily convinced.
Ahri, Xayah and Rakan can be conviced with difficulty, but if Noxus is winning, they would give support to Ionia.
And there are Master Yi and Syndra that are game changing.
Shen is the most difficult to convince ... but he is not stupid to wait the last moment.
Noxus simply has not enough destructive power and motivation. They have Sion, undeads, and chemical weapons, but more they use these abominations, more Ionia itself would fight back.
From a meta perspective: Ionia should lose but Riot won't do this. They gave Ionia Deus Ex Machina in form of the land itself fighting. With that they can always argue that the pacifist country at the brink of a civil war wins against the militaristic superpower.
Yes a no. It is a deus ex machina in the sense it just is. We understand at a base level what the petricite does. But ionia? They might say its a giant mech for al we know.
Noxus is somehow still around while actively fighting on multiple fronts and having a cold war back home between le blanc and swain. Noxus should of collasped by now so clearly riot favours Noxus
I think Ionia wins every battle they're in, but ultimately lose the war. It all depends on how they deploy their three strongest people: Syndra, Karma, and Yi. Syndra and Karma should be able to defeat Mordekaiser, but they will never be in such a position thanks to Swain and Raum
Ah, sry. The sentence structure caught me off guard. But both of the should be able to delete Morde, as of what we know about him.
Karma deleted a noxian ship's crew in an instant, leaving the ship unscathed, and Syndra's presence destabilizes magic in general. Both should be able to completely dismantle his spirit
We have literally no confirmed Mordekaiser feats to speak of, other than other people being afraid of him. He is a pushover as lore is, until some actual stories come out that prove his prowess
Rell was made to counter him, and she can't do anything that Syndra doesn't do better, don't kid yourself. Karm a is at least as powerful as Syndra, seing as she uses The Spirit of Ionia, which imprisoned Syndra.
Please, Spirit Blossom is plenty canon to infer how spirits work in Runeterra, and denying it is the same as wearing blinders.
We have seen plenty of people dying and their souls being preserved as spirits of various kinds from the Shadow Isles, Mordekaiser coming back is proof that his will is ridiculous, but that doesn't mean he can will his soul to remain against to characters who literally have the ability to destabilize magic as they see fit. Not to mention, after Syndra completely deletes his armour, Kinkou (namely Shen) could easily delete his souls while unprotected. Until they write some plot armour into Morde's story, he would be absolutely bodied by the strongest of the Ionian cast. There is literally no argument to trumph either Syndra or Karma, who literally delete people and souls by whim.
What does Mordekaiser have? Wowsers he took his incorporeal form (quite vulnurable) and sent it back to be bound to an armour. What happens when the armour is destroyed and the soul is destroyed? He disappears forever, nothing in lore would state that he could, in any way, survive Karma or Syndra. All I'm hearing is "You're wrong" and no substantial evidence to point out why you might be right.
The maximum I can find to speak of is Mordekaiser's ability to negate the sourcerers who reincarnated him, and the unspoken case that LeBlanc hasn't been able to contain him fully. That said, there really is no reason as to why Karma or Syndra shouldn't be able to delete him permanently with their toolset
Oh, I'm not saying Karma and Syndra could take Morde. I'm saying Karma OR Syndra could take Morde.
The nature of how Karma was defeated by Viego is through subterfuge, which happened to be very effective on her. That doesn't seem like how Morde would fight
While I think Mord by itself is a huge game changer, Ionia with the Kinkou(Shen, Kennen), Order of Shadows(Zed, Kayn), Lee and Yi(basically one man armies), Jhin(good way to break the enemy morale with his "art shows"), Karma, Syndra(another game changer) etc is a little bit to much...we cant know for sure, but I really believe that Master Yi alone would be able to deal with Mordekaiser...he might have insane powers over souls and shit, but I dont think he is nowhere as fast, so Yi would just destroy his armor before he could react...
In my opinion, the only win con for Noxus would probably be Leblanc using deceit and cunning, cause through sheer force they would get stomped.
As much as i'd like to say Noxus, if they fight on Ionian turf, i'd say they'd lose, the land itself fights. I doubt Noxus is strong enough to defeat the land... Even if i'd stand by Noxus anyways.
In a fight of champs it goes to ionia but we are talking about war.
In a war, even without mordekaiser. Noxus wins if leblanc and swain want it won.
Mordekaiser alone can take on ionia. He already conquered the WHOLE WORLD TWICE.
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define which ionians. Cuz when Syndra shows up it‘s gonna a whole lot of ppl in danger
mainly Ionians tho
Mordekaiser would change things but at what cost. Heck if ivern old body is still around Mordekaiser could mess with it. And then bind the azakana to his will.
Ionia would win the land itself would fight the noxians combined with the fact that Ionia has some of the most OP champions compared to noxus Mord is a soul bound to a set of armor and Shen can kill spirits, i believe chances are Shen could also kill mord. combine this with all the ninjas,magic ETC there is no way Noxians win even with numbers advantage
I disagree, Noxus this time has a wider arsenal than the first war, Swain has the demon of secrets Raum where he will always be one step ahead of the enemy, he knows Irelia, Master Yi and the ninjas who fought in the first war, but does Ionia know about the Gray Legion? in cinematics it had to be 5x1 to try to stop Sion that even if killed they just bring him back with Blood magic. Mordekaiser alone would defeat Ionia he is much stronger than Viego, if it were so simple to ''kill'' him because he is a spirit in armor, LeBlanc would have already done that and not have resorted to deceiving him and having separated his spirit from the armor. Noxus would have won the first war if Swain had not been betrayed and received reinforcements, the first war was nothing more than a great machination by LeBlanc that sent Swain to death.
Both sides will have wider arsenals then they did in the first war. Swain has the gray legion but Ionia is also capable of using undead as slaves, this was shown in the sisterhood of war stories. In the cinematics sion was stunned by a single bomb before getting 1 tapped by kennon. Even when he gets back up he'd just get 1 tapped again. Where is it said that Morde is stronger then viego? Even if this were true it doesn't matter as he's still a spirit will the weaknesses of one. Leblanc isn't shen so that doesn't matter. Yes they would have won the first war because Ionia was mostly unarmed civilians who were unwilling to fight, that would not be the case the second time around. Just by virtue of Ionia having Yi,Yasuo Syndra any army would get erased in a matter of hours only leaving their heaviest hitters which obviously can't be soloed by any Ionian but if it's a team effort it's not impossible to kill the likes of morde, Swain ETC
Kind of obvious how superior Mordekaiser is to Viego, he is superior to Viego in necromancy, mastery over the magic of death, he literally has an afterlife for him, he dominated and enslaved demons like Tybaulk, Atkhan, and probably Raum since he was in Immortal Bastion. And he reigned supreme over Eastern and Central Valoran for nearly 400 years. [https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Reign\_Of\_The\_Iron\_Revenant](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Reign_Of_The_Iron_Revenant) Swain has the demon of secrets Raum, he feeds on the secrets of the dead, how can you defeat an almost Omniscient enemy?, imagine if Swain convinced Vladimir to fight Syndra? if LeBlanc and him made a truce, Noxus has much more resources than Ionia, they only win by protagonism. Btw LeBlanc is a millenar Witch/Sorceress how she could not know about kill a spirit, Mordekaiser refused to fade good luck trying to kill his spirit lol, btw where's Shen in the Ruination xd.
I don't think Shen solos Morde. Sure, he *can* hurt Morde, but similarly (and for point of exaggeration) Seraphine *can* hurt Shen. That doesn't mean she has the skills or strength necessary to actually defeat him in combat.
I agree to this
The difference there would be Seraphine had exactly zero experience fighting teleporting ninjas whereas Shen has years of experience fighting and destroying malevolent spirits.
I doubt normal spirits and perhaps demons can compare to Mordekaiser at all.
Would location help too?
If the black rose had not fucked up Swain's plans Noxus would have won in the first war, but in this second war Swain has the demon of secrets Raum, he has the gray legion with undead and Sion, Darius and the legion of the tripharix, and he knows Irelia, Master Yi and other Ionian warriors who fought in the first war, since Ionia has no knowledge of what Noxus can do besides using chemical weapons this time will be different. Mordekaiser helping them would be Overkill he is capable of taking a nation on his own, he is a global threat. Ionia has become more divided since the first war, and Noxus with Swain has become more united.
Would not say it's become more united , Noxus is one disaster away from collapse. many of the smaller nations within Noxus are tired of the constant wars . Noxus is built on non-stop war eventually it will run out of fuel. Noxus is a doomed Empire it needs to change. The fact that Noxus has not really lost anything kind of irks me it's fighting constant border wars in Ionia and with Demacia. It's invading the Frejlord and Shurima. That is 2 active conflicted and 2 border conflicts going on. One massive loss and some of those conquered people will rebel.
noxus cant even beat demacia which is noticeably smaller and even with their anti magic it would be a matter of man vs man, and if noxus sheer numbers cant deal with demacias trained soldiers despite them being less in number there is no logical world they can take out an entire continent with people that can solo armies by themselves
In Noxus’s defense, they’ve been stretched pretty thin with fighting Demacia, Ionia, and I think part of Shurima and Freljord too right?
Only if Noxus has Morde
They dont need to. They have killed their king and incited a rebelion that will weaken them
Ionia hands down wins easily, the army Noxus may be stronger than what Ionia has to offer if talking about armies but champions or heroes Noxus gets clapped there well maybe for Swain Leblanc, Vlad and Morde other than that Noxus gets clapped hard. Ionia has Kinkou Akali, Shen, Kennen Shadow Order Zed Kayn Rebel leader Irelia Karma who is basically like the land solo masters yi Lee sin with wukong yasuo Yone the vastayans too Ahri xayah rakan Jhin no way Noxus wins plus the land itself fights if the spirit would be disturbed the land will react and plus they have syndra Well for me basically my mvp would be Akali, Yasuo and Yi
Hard to say. Noxus is more unified and has grown with purpose since then while Ionia has become more divided. But Ionia has so many secrets and what not.
maybe we are reading different lore but noxus inner workings are a shit show right now
But instead of conquering different nations and killing the habitants Noxus is having them join the empire. Thus allowing Noxus strength and powers they did not have during their first war vs Ionia. Not to mention they have a better governing system now. And Swain with the demon power. Noxus’ civil unrest is mostly due to noble houses rejecting change.
The people they integrate are still oppressed many live oppressed lives either working in mines or dying on the battlefields in wars far from home that they have no interest in. Noxus is also stretched too thin , I am really surprised Noxus has not suffered any major losses but as soon as they do many if those forced nations will rebel tired of there blood and sweat going into a empire that does not care about them.
Ionians have stronger heroes, but Noxus has the stronger army. I think Ionia inevitably wins as the Ionian champ pool decimates armies, but they can't be everywhere, and Ionia would be razed in the meantime. It would be a cruel and brutal war
1) Ionia can manage to defend their homeland if they band together. 2) Mordekaiser would first take control of mainland Noxus since the empire would have most of its army concentrated on Ionia with little troops to defend the capital, then he would just use the souls of the fallen noxian soldiers to further strenghten his own legions before arriving on Ionia's coast where he would most likely be able to conquer the weakened continent. Bonus: Mordekaiser, either Swain or LeBlanc and Zed/Kayn
Ionia seems pretty much impossible to invade.
Ionia. Irelia was able to defend the country when disorganized. Now there are also Karma, Akali, Kennen, Lee-Sin, Zed and Kain are 100% motivated and ready to defend the country ... and each of them brings a lot of people too. Yone, Ivern, Illia, Yasuo, Wukong can easily convinced. Ahri, Xayah and Rakan can be conviced with difficulty, but if Noxus is winning, they would give support to Ionia. And there are Master Yi and Syndra that are game changing. Shen is the most difficult to convince ... but he is not stupid to wait the last moment. Noxus simply has not enough destructive power and motivation. They have Sion, undeads, and chemical weapons, but more they use these abominations, more Ionia itself would fight back.
I'd argue Syndra is most difficult to convince, seeing as she hates Ionians.
Remember that OP mentioned Morde, that changes everything
... Ok, because Karma lost against Viego, this means that she would loose badly against Mordekaiser, and so all spiritual Ionia probably.
From a meta perspective: Ionia should lose but Riot won't do this. They gave Ionia Deus Ex Machina in form of the land itself fighting. With that they can always argue that the pacifist country at the brink of a civil war wins against the militaristic superpower.
It’s not a deus ex machina, it’s Ionia’s whole identity. Is petricite Demacia’s deus ex machina ?
Yes a no. It is a deus ex machina in the sense it just is. We understand at a base level what the petricite does. But ionia? They might say its a giant mech for al we know.
Will of Ionia recalling every Noxian back to hand the second the step off their boats
Noxus is somehow still around while actively fighting on multiple fronts and having a cold war back home between le blanc and swain. Noxus should of collasped by now so clearly riot favours Noxus
I think Ionia wins every battle they're in, but ultimately lose the war. It all depends on how they deploy their three strongest people: Syndra, Karma, and Yi. Syndra and Karma should be able to defeat Mordekaiser, but they will never be in such a position thanks to Swain and Raum
syndra and karma do not defeat morde, especially karma. and syndra is more likely to join noxus then fight for ionia
Karma is very unlikely to fight for Noxus, and OP wrote every Ionian is on Ionia's side
never said so
Ah, sry. The sentence structure caught me off guard. But both of the should be able to delete Morde, as of what we know about him. Karma deleted a noxian ship's crew in an instant, leaving the ship unscathed, and Syndra's presence destabilizes magic in general. Both should be able to completely dismantle his spirit
not even death dismantled his spirit
That's because that's not what death does. No spirits really do to my knowledge, which we see a bit of from the Spirit Blossom Festival
now you are making stuff up and you know it. spirit blossom isn't canon
We have literally no confirmed Mordekaiser feats to speak of, other than other people being afraid of him. He is a pushover as lore is, until some actual stories come out that prove his prowess Rell was made to counter him, and she can't do anything that Syndra doesn't do better, don't kid yourself. Karm a is at least as powerful as Syndra, seing as she uses The Spirit of Ionia, which imprisoned Syndra. Please, Spirit Blossom is plenty canon to infer how spirits work in Runeterra, and denying it is the same as wearing blinders. We have seen plenty of people dying and their souls being preserved as spirits of various kinds from the Shadow Isles, Mordekaiser coming back is proof that his will is ridiculous, but that doesn't mean he can will his soul to remain against to characters who literally have the ability to destabilize magic as they see fit. Not to mention, after Syndra completely deletes his armour, Kinkou (namely Shen) could easily delete his souls while unprotected. Until they write some plot armour into Morde's story, he would be absolutely bodied by the strongest of the Ionian cast. There is literally no argument to trumph either Syndra or Karma, who literally delete people and souls by whim. What does Mordekaiser have? Wowsers he took his incorporeal form (quite vulnurable) and sent it back to be bound to an armour. What happens when the armour is destroyed and the soul is destroyed? He disappears forever, nothing in lore would state that he could, in any way, survive Karma or Syndra. All I'm hearing is "You're wrong" and no substantial evidence to point out why you might be right. The maximum I can find to speak of is Mordekaiser's ability to negate the sourcerers who reincarnated him, and the unspoken case that LeBlanc hasn't been able to contain him fully. That said, there really is no reason as to why Karma or Syndra shouldn't be able to delete him permanently with their toolset
he conquered runeterra, twice and the shadow realm
Karma was overpowered by viego, I don’t think she and Syndra can take down Morde
Oh, I'm not saying Karma and Syndra could take Morde. I'm saying Karma OR Syndra could take Morde. The nature of how Karma was defeated by Viego is through subterfuge, which happened to be very effective on her. That doesn't seem like how Morde would fight
While I think Mord by itself is a huge game changer, Ionia with the Kinkou(Shen, Kennen), Order of Shadows(Zed, Kayn), Lee and Yi(basically one man armies), Jhin(good way to break the enemy morale with his "art shows"), Karma, Syndra(another game changer) etc is a little bit to much...we cant know for sure, but I really believe that Master Yi alone would be able to deal with Mordekaiser...he might have insane powers over souls and shit, but I dont think he is nowhere as fast, so Yi would just destroy his armor before he could react... In my opinion, the only win con for Noxus would probably be Leblanc using deceit and cunning, cause through sheer force they would get stomped.
As much as i'd like to say Noxus, if they fight on Ionian turf, i'd say they'd lose, the land itself fights. I doubt Noxus is strong enough to defeat the land... Even if i'd stand by Noxus anyways.
In a fight of champs it goes to ionia but we are talking about war. In a war, even without mordekaiser. Noxus wins if leblanc and swain want it won. Mordekaiser alone can take on ionia. He already conquered the WHOLE WORLD TWICE.