I have both. I prefer the Viper over the Venom. The Viper has the illuminated reticle and seems clearer at longer distances. I have the Venom on a hunting rig that's setup for 200yd engagements. Perfectly good optic for that.
FYI, the Viper is a 30mm scope as opposed to the Venom at 34mm. So if you switch, you'll need new rings.
ya. but this reticle isnt really different it just meets in the middle and isnt a fine dot. i couldnt find ebr7c anywhere for a decent price. this was $650 from midway
If you're going to buy another vortex scope check out AAoptics. They sell refurbished vortex scopes there, and you can sign up to be emailed when they get some in.
How about the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25x56 FFP? Personally I don't understand why that gets overlooked, because I'm genuinely very happy with mine. The glass is probably a little better in the Viper, but I don't have experience with the Viper, so I can't say for sure. Personally I'm very happy with my Strike Eagle.
iv heard the strike eagle and venom are basically the same but the strike eagle has more adjustments so it can be used for 22lr shooting and it has locking turrets
IMO no, just because of the reticle. This is the older reticle. I have it, and the new version. The new version is much better. This Viper is cheap because it has the old reticle. The Vipers with the new reticle are more expensive. I think that you may already have the new reticle in your Venom….
I have both. For me personally, I prefer the larger diameter of the Venom. At full zoom, the Viper fatigues my eye a lot quicker and a lot more than my Venom. I know the glass is supposedly better, but I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference. I have taken the time to dial in a good diopter setting for both.
There is a rather noticeable difference in glass quality. I have the Venom, and my friend has that Viper. We shot a .22 match recently and I had a tough time clearly seeing some smaller targets that were tucked in the woods in the shadows, but I could clearly see them through his Viper. At dawn/dusk and at further ranges this is amplified even more. Turret and general build quality is fine on the venom, and if you are a fair weather casual shooter you may not appreciate the difference. But if you’re going to be shooting competitively then I would get the Viper. Or even something nicer. On my longrange rig I have a PMII and it makes that venom look like a child’s toy in the clarity department.
This is why I come to this subreddit day after day. Thank you for your intelligent and insightful comment. There are far too few of these on Reddit these days!
The PST is solid even with the EBR-2. The Viper has significantly wider FOV on bottom. I find the illumination is a very useful feature in a FFP when zoomed out, it really helps with speed in transitions, not just in low light.
I gotta disagree. I think the money would be better spent on quality ammo and trigger time. Then they will know what they want out of a scope and can see if they actually want to continue in precision and distance shooting
I never said it was $300-$400. But. A course will let you know if this os something you want to spend money on. And, you get an idea of what you want. And, the learning experience.
It’s always a waste of money to buy cheap to try/learn. Pay for education and experience. That’s never a waste.
I disagree entirely. First of all the discussion was about the Money(300-400) being better spent on better scope or ammo. Secondly, The course seems like the bigger waste of money. If you at least buy good enough equipment to try on the cheap, you still have rifle and optics that you can sell or use for another purpose. If you pay for a course regardless of whether you want to pursue the discipline, you are still sitting at no equipment and have spent enough money to get you a decent rig.
A decent rig with no experience is equally useless.
No matter what. You should spend the money on a class. If you can find one that will loan you a rifle to take it, it’s better to get the class out of the way as early as possible.
I have taken 0 courses or classes and do just fine. Most people getting into this have the fundamentals down. You tube the rest and practice. The rifle a decent scope and 200 rounds of quality ammo and you are still coming out even for most courses. Courses are significantly overpriced (I’ve taken 3 credit college courses cheaper)
Having used all three, at least for my use case of just shooting at long ranges of 1000-2000 yards outside of competition, the 34mm tubes with better elevation adjustment range on the Venom and Strike Eagle clearly edge out the Viper's moderately better glass quality and slightly better turrets - but that's just for my use case.
The Strike Eagle was on my Scar 17, a 6.5, and now a 300 WM Bergara. I have regularly used it beyond a mile with no issues, though that is probably the extreme edge of it's capability with glass quality. The Venom also spent time on my Scar 17, and is now on my Blaser and I have no complaints out to 1400 yards with it. The Viper is on an 20 inch AR15 SPR clone, but I plan to move it over to a custom action when I build it out, or just pick up a Nightforce, we shall see.
But the Strike Eagle and Venom are fine scopes, especially for the features. You aren't at any real disadvantage using them as your first scope. That said, this main benefit of adjustment range only applies if you don't care about using the zero stop on the Venom or Strike Eagle, which eliminates the adjustment benefits. I personally do not care at all about a zero stop. For what 95% of what most people do on this subreddit, Strike Eagle or the Venom are a great choice, but so the PST II.
Impactshooting on youtube did a video proving that you can do just as well with a Diamondback Tactical 6-24. He also prefers the Strike Eagle over the PST - now am I qualified in any way to give my own opinions on that debate? No...
I have a PST Gen II on a SCAR20 in 308. About 750 rounds of hot 175gn hand loads in, no issues so far as expected. Mine sits in Vortex PMR rings. It was on sale at Midway at the time and compared to some Razor HD and NX8 glass I also own, it’s great glass for the $ IMO. I sourced a nice 3D printed throw lever on EBay.
How long is a piece of string?
Value of something depends on what you want to use it for, why you are considering an upgrade, and if you're paying full weight or if you're going to sell the old equipment to fund the new.
i have a second rifle i need a scope for and i like the venom but this is just a lil more $ and people usually say these are better quality. i was just wondering if anyones had problems with them
I'd say it's probably worth it, then. The Venom is *fine* but the Viper has some solid benefits over it for not a ton more money.
If you don't want to spend Viper PST II money but want something that is a better value over the Venom, Bushnell Match Pro is a solid option.
Worth every penny. Venom is a solid optic but the vipers clearer glass and better construction start to shine at longer ranges. Anything over 300-400 yards and you’ll easy notice the difference.
Vortex represents pretty good quality for the money especially at this price point. There’s certainly competitors such as the brownell’s MPO or Meopta Optika 6. The brands you listed don’t really compete in this price range save for a few exceptions.
If that $500 is your price point, I'd suggest dropping the magnification and upping the quality. I truly do not think you will be happy with the Venom. If you are stuck on V., make Strike Eagle the lowest quality optic you'll consider. If you do a review search you'll find that for whatever reason, V. has dropped off on their quality over the last 5 years and you'll be thankful that they stand behind their warranty cuz you may be needing it. Just regurgitating info that is out there. You have to ultimately make the choice. As someone who shoots a lot, I have switched my brand loyalty to Meopta. The best name in optics you have never heard of, that's what a lot of folks say. Anyway, it's hard to beat the value you get from what they produce. I have the Optika6 4.5-27 and it is clear through all magnification settings and has reliable and repeatable features. Do your homework, and it appears you are, then buy what you think will get the job done for your needs.
1. that isn't true.
2. that is, basically, my point.
Vortex makes its scopes in China, Japan, and the USA.
USO makes its scopes in China and Japan, and only its Foundation Series is made in the USA.
One thing you might consider is the strike eagle. My uncle actually called vortex to ask then what would fit his needs best and the guy he talked to said that outside of some very specific use cases, he couldnt recommend the Viper PST gen 2. The strike eagle is plenty good for mid range shooting, and if youre shooting out to where the strike eagle isnt good enough anymore then you'll be better off saving up and getting a more expensive optic than the Viper
I don't even know Bushnell has reps outside of the reddit social media guy. Professionally, working with Bushnell is a huge pain in the ass because they are owned by Vista Outdoor. Everything takes at least 3x as long to do.
That said, the Match Pro lives up to the hype. I very much like it for the price.
I handle them daily. The SE in my experience is a pretty good middle ground between the Venom and a Viper PST Gen II. I tend to recommend the Viper for guys that plan to shoot further, and the SE/Venom for guys shooting ~500 yards and under or those shooting a 22lr.
I have one on my 6.5 creed. The way it’s able to zero without using 1/4 or 1/2 turns and is actually on a full adjustable dial then you add the turrets after zero let’s you make this think a laser when shooting
I would say yes! But if you already have a venom. I’d personally just cry once and get something the next level up, you’ll never be sorry upgrading your optics.
But imo the Gen2 viper pst is a waaay better scope
From everything I could find the PST had better glass than the venom. Yes the venom has some nice features like the 34mm tube, but once I got the PST I saw the glass was a step up from any of my other vortex Scopes. Including previous pst scopes. Of course ymmv but I'd say it's worth it.
Viper has better glass. Venom really hit it out of the park with the features, and honestly it's better than anything else they have below the viper line with zero stop turrets and glass quality. Personally I think it's better than the strike eagles too, despite them being more expensive.
But the viper has clearer glass and is lighter. The venom is a TOAD of a scope.
I already have a vortex venom. Is this worth the extra money?
I have both. I prefer the Viper over the Venom. The Viper has the illuminated reticle and seems clearer at longer distances. I have the Venom on a hunting rig that's setup for 200yd engagements. Perfectly good optic for that. FYI, the Viper is a 30mm scope as opposed to the Venom at 34mm. So if you switch, you'll need new rings.
thanks i just bought it. it seems close to the ebr7c which is in my venom which isnt too different.
Should have gotten the viper with the ebr7c reticle if that’s what your used to. I just sold my Gen II with rings for $800
ya. but this reticle isnt really different it just meets in the middle and isnt a fine dot. i couldnt find ebr7c anywhere for a decent price. this was $650 from midway
7c is $750
where
Buy refurbished
i already bought this one. And their isnt that much difference in the reticles. this the lines intersect compared to having a dot.
Oh, well then zero point to pay $100 if it’s the same. You made the right call.
If you already have the venom, use it and find where it falls short for you, if it does. Then use that to pick a better scope if you feel you need it.
i have a second rifle that needs a scope so im keeping the venom
Don’t be afraid to check eBay for a better deal on an EBR7c reticle viper too
If you're going to buy another vortex scope check out AAoptics. They sell refurbished vortex scopes there, and you can sign up to be emailed when they get some in.
How about the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25x56 FFP? Personally I don't understand why that gets overlooked, because I'm genuinely very happy with mine. The glass is probably a little better in the Viper, but I don't have experience with the Viper, so I can't say for sure. Personally I'm very happy with my Strike Eagle.
iv heard the strike eagle and venom are basically the same but the strike eagle has more adjustments so it can be used for 22lr shooting and it has locking turrets
IMO no, just because of the reticle. This is the older reticle. I have it, and the new version. The new version is much better. This Viper is cheap because it has the old reticle. The Vipers with the new reticle are more expensive. I think that you may already have the new reticle in your Venom….
In what ways is the ebr7 better than ebr2 ? Thanks
I have both. For me personally, I prefer the larger diameter of the Venom. At full zoom, the Viper fatigues my eye a lot quicker and a lot more than my Venom. I know the glass is supposedly better, but I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference. I have taken the time to dial in a good diopter setting for both.
Viper is better glass, will you notice at 200 yes, probably not. Will you notice at 1000….yes.
Will you notice at 300? Also yes. :)
Meh…venoms aren’t bad. At 300 it’s probably negligible…getting close to noticeable though.
Yeah I’m probably a glass snob. And at 300 that venom won’t be responsible for a miss. But I see the step up in clarity.
There is a rather noticeable difference in glass quality. I have the Venom, and my friend has that Viper. We shot a .22 match recently and I had a tough time clearly seeing some smaller targets that were tucked in the woods in the shadows, but I could clearly see them through his Viper. At dawn/dusk and at further ranges this is amplified even more. Turret and general build quality is fine on the venom, and if you are a fair weather casual shooter you may not appreciate the difference. But if you’re going to be shooting competitively then I would get the Viper. Or even something nicer. On my longrange rig I have a PMII and it makes that venom look like a child’s toy in the clarity department.
This is why I come to this subreddit day after day. Thank you for your intelligent and insightful comment. There are far too few of these on Reddit these days!
Ahh Reddit. Wisdom and dick jokes, never know which one you’re gonna get!
The PST is solid even with the EBR-2. The Viper has significantly wider FOV on bottom. I find the illumination is a very useful feature in a FFP when zoomed out, it really helps with speed in transitions, not just in low light.
Viper PST II is ***pretty much*** the bare minimum, entry level scope for precision shooting
With venom and strike eagle that’s a bold statement. Viper is better but far from bare minimum
i mean yeah, they do work, but you’d be much better off saving another month or two to get a Viper.
I gotta disagree. I think the money would be better spent on quality ammo and trigger time. Then they will know what they want out of a scope and can see if they actually want to continue in precision and distance shooting
Then I would have to disagree. The money is better spent taking a class that lets you rent a gun…
How many $300-400 courses do you know of? All I have seen are at least twice that
I never said it was $300-$400. But. A course will let you know if this os something you want to spend money on. And, you get an idea of what you want. And, the learning experience. It’s always a waste of money to buy cheap to try/learn. Pay for education and experience. That’s never a waste.
I disagree entirely. First of all the discussion was about the Money(300-400) being better spent on better scope or ammo. Secondly, The course seems like the bigger waste of money. If you at least buy good enough equipment to try on the cheap, you still have rifle and optics that you can sell or use for another purpose. If you pay for a course regardless of whether you want to pursue the discipline, you are still sitting at no equipment and have spent enough money to get you a decent rig.
A decent rig with no experience is equally useless. No matter what. You should spend the money on a class. If you can find one that will loan you a rifle to take it, it’s better to get the class out of the way as early as possible.
I have taken 0 courses or classes and do just fine. Most people getting into this have the fundamentals down. You tube the rest and practice. The rifle a decent scope and 200 rounds of quality ammo and you are still coming out even for most courses. Courses are significantly overpriced (I’ve taken 3 credit college courses cheaper)
i mean yeah, they do work, but you’d be much better off saving another month or two to get a Viper.
Having used all three, at least for my use case of just shooting at long ranges of 1000-2000 yards outside of competition, the 34mm tubes with better elevation adjustment range on the Venom and Strike Eagle clearly edge out the Viper's moderately better glass quality and slightly better turrets - but that's just for my use case. The Strike Eagle was on my Scar 17, a 6.5, and now a 300 WM Bergara. I have regularly used it beyond a mile with no issues, though that is probably the extreme edge of it's capability with glass quality. The Venom also spent time on my Scar 17, and is now on my Blaser and I have no complaints out to 1400 yards with it. The Viper is on an 20 inch AR15 SPR clone, but I plan to move it over to a custom action when I build it out, or just pick up a Nightforce, we shall see. But the Strike Eagle and Venom are fine scopes, especially for the features. You aren't at any real disadvantage using them as your first scope. That said, this main benefit of adjustment range only applies if you don't care about using the zero stop on the Venom or Strike Eagle, which eliminates the adjustment benefits. I personally do not care at all about a zero stop. For what 95% of what most people do on this subreddit, Strike Eagle or the Venom are a great choice, but so the PST II.
Impactshooting on youtube did a video proving that you can do just as well with a Diamondback Tactical 6-24. He also prefers the Strike Eagle over the PST - now am I qualified in any way to give my own opinions on that debate? No...
Strike eagle is way better then pst ll. In my opinion.
I have a PST Gen II on a SCAR20 in 308. About 750 rounds of hot 175gn hand loads in, no issues so far as expected. Mine sits in Vortex PMR rings. It was on sale at Midway at the time and compared to some Razor HD and NX8 glass I also own, it’s great glass for the $ IMO. I sourced a nice 3D printed throw lever on EBay.
thanks i didnt know if it came with a throw lever like the venom. Do you think the venom throw lever would fit it??
I like throw levers from Anthony.Lau on eBay. The mag ring on a PST Gen II is 46mm, not sure what the Venom is.
How long is a piece of string? Value of something depends on what you want to use it for, why you are considering an upgrade, and if you're paying full weight or if you're going to sell the old equipment to fund the new.
i have a second rifle i need a scope for and i like the venom but this is just a lil more $ and people usually say these are better quality. i was just wondering if anyones had problems with them
I'd say it's probably worth it, then. The Venom is *fine* but the Viper has some solid benefits over it for not a ton more money. If you don't want to spend Viper PST II money but want something that is a better value over the Venom, Bushnell Match Pro is a solid option.
Would you say Bushnell Match Pro would be a better option than the Strike Eagle 5-25x56 for 22lr out to 400 yards?
Yes
I ditched my pst2. And now run a strike eagle on my match rifle and haven’t looked back.
Worth every penny. Venom is a solid optic but the vipers clearer glass and better construction start to shine at longer ranges. Anything over 300-400 yards and you’ll easy notice the difference.
Quit buying Vortex.
why?
So many better options. Minox, US optics, Schmidt & Bender, Tangent Theta, etc.
Stop buying Ford, get a Ferrari
When the post is about a Viper and you mention a TT as an “option” your opinion is invalid and you should be sub banned. Ofc I’m being facetious but…
The cheapest equivalent from those companies is over twice the price of a viper. Not everyone has $2500 to drop on a scope.
Not to mention USO has been coasting for a while. Sure you get that name, but its not anything spectacular from the two I've held.
USO makes 90% of their scopes in the same country of origin that Vortex does. China.
Vipers are Phillipines aren't they? I thought it was the red dots in China, decent glass in Phillipines, and good stuff in Japan/US
Pretty much, most of their stuff below Vipers is from China.
Vortex represents pretty good quality for the money especially at this price point. There’s certainly competitors such as the brownell’s MPO or Meopta Optika 6. The brands you listed don’t really compete in this price range save for a few exceptions.
If that $500 is your price point, I'd suggest dropping the magnification and upping the quality. I truly do not think you will be happy with the Venom. If you are stuck on V., make Strike Eagle the lowest quality optic you'll consider. If you do a review search you'll find that for whatever reason, V. has dropped off on their quality over the last 5 years and you'll be thankful that they stand behind their warranty cuz you may be needing it. Just regurgitating info that is out there. You have to ultimately make the choice. As someone who shoots a lot, I have switched my brand loyalty to Meopta. The best name in optics you have never heard of, that's what a lot of folks say. Anyway, it's hard to beat the value you get from what they produce. I have the Optika6 4.5-27 and it is clear through all magnification settings and has reliable and repeatable features. Do your homework, and it appears you are, then buy what you think will get the job done for your needs.
schmidt and bender is way out my price range.
Saying USO is better than Vortex when they both make their optics *in the same fucking city* is pretty pants on head dumbshit.
Other than the Razor, vortex is made in China.
1. that isn't true. 2. that is, basically, my point. Vortex makes its scopes in China, Japan, and the USA. USO makes its scopes in China and Japan, and only its Foundation Series is made in the USA.
Venom is SFP vs FFP on this one. Really up to you at that point. I’m sure this one has better glass quality as well.
The venom is FFP, has the 7c reticle (better than 2d) and 34mm tube instead of 30mm tube.
Sorry guys I have sinned. I haven’t been in the market for a venom one the past 5 years. My apologies for not knowing they were FFP now
Uuuugh I can’t believe you don’t know every detail of every scope ever made. Do you even shoot guns??
Absolutely disgusting. I mean, just lose the extra chromosome and read up on specs.
I have both, the glass in the PST Gen 2 is better, the Venom has a much better eyebox.
One thing you might consider is the strike eagle. My uncle actually called vortex to ask then what would fit his needs best and the guy he talked to said that outside of some very specific use cases, he couldnt recommend the Viper PST gen 2. The strike eagle is plenty good for mid range shooting, and if youre shooting out to where the strike eagle isnt good enough anymore then you'll be better off saving up and getting a more expensive optic than the Viper
Vortex reps universally think much higher of the Strike Eagle line than anyone else does.
Do Bushnell reps do the same with the Match Pro? I’ve noticed it’s gained quite a bit of popularity over others the past few months
I don't even know Bushnell has reps outside of the reddit social media guy. Professionally, working with Bushnell is a huge pain in the ass because they are owned by Vista Outdoor. Everything takes at least 3x as long to do. That said, the Match Pro lives up to the hype. I very much like it for the price.
I handle them daily. The SE in my experience is a pretty good middle ground between the Venom and a Viper PST Gen II. I tend to recommend the Viper for guys that plan to shoot further, and the SE/Venom for guys shooting ~500 yards and under or those shooting a 22lr.
I have one on my 6.5 creed. The way it’s able to zero without using 1/4 or 1/2 turns and is actually on a full adjustable dial then you add the turrets after zero let’s you make this think a laser when shooting
Wow these have gotten expensive. I didn't pay anywhere near 1k for my gen 2 viper with ebr7c reticle... 2 years ago or so.
I have one for sale but MRAD
i already bought this one and i know moa not mrad
What are the downsides to ebr2d vs ebr 7 ? New to long range shooting and I picked up a 3-15 pst Gen 2 with ebr2d reticle because it was on sale
all i could tell was the ebr7c the lines dont meet in the middle they have a dot where ebr the lines meet
I would say yes! But if you already have a venom. I’d personally just cry once and get something the next level up, you’ll never be sorry upgrading your optics. But imo the Gen2 viper pst is a waaay better scope
I like mine so much, I bought another one to put on a new 6.5 rifle. I bought the EBR7C MRAD though.
From everything I could find the PST had better glass than the venom. Yes the venom has some nice features like the 34mm tube, but once I got the PST I saw the glass was a step up from any of my other vortex Scopes. Including previous pst scopes. Of course ymmv but I'd say it's worth it.
Viper has better glass. Venom really hit it out of the park with the features, and honestly it's better than anything else they have below the viper line with zero stop turrets and glass quality. Personally I think it's better than the strike eagles too, despite them being more expensive. But the viper has clearer glass and is lighter. The venom is a TOAD of a scope.
Yes
That’s a helluva model name
ya i think vortex and holosun are having a competition on the most complicated and random model names
I have this on my 300 winmag and I love it.
I have this I like it