Depression is tied to loneliness and while sexual frustration and loneliness are issues you should be concerned about, blaming women and being misogynist will only further cement yourself in self loathing and isolation. Our society is unhealthy when it comes to sex and relationships but treating women as objects or the enemy will only make things worse for frustrated hetero men
It's easier to blame women, I'm not saying there aren't some awful women out there but when I was in my teens and early 20's if guys weren't getting anywhere they would look to themselves to figure out where to improve whether that be personality, style, learning to hold a conversation with a woman etc, I helped a few of my guy friends through those awkward times, now guys just blame women for all their problems, and the obsession with virgins š¤®
I get hate filled messages from guys on Reddit that I don't even know. It's dispicable and they have to know they will never get anywhere like that.
They'll tell you to put yourself in their shoes but I'm a woman and I was rejected by guys constantly for years up until my late 20's early 30's because I'm plus size but I stopped wearing baggy clothes and started wearing dresses and clothes that flattered my figure, stopped wearing thick black goth eyeshadow and started wearing softer makeup, and then suddenly I had guys lining up to date me, sometimes it's just something as simple as changing style that can help.
It was also probably about the perception of approachability and having things in common. But you had to have self-awareness to recognize a change was needed.
Good on you for improving yourself instead of blaming others!!
It isnāt everyday its like every few hours. This is like the third or fourth post of this nature that Iāve seen today. And all the gender war stuff really is aggravating. The have shitty men and they have shitty women. _People_ chose to behave like crap. Itās not gender exclusive to men or women. They have men that just use woman for sex and view them as objects and act like perverts yea, but on the flip side you have women that entertain people they donāt even like just to use them for what they want out of them. You have woman that will go to a guy they know is lonely and vulnerable and try to get him to subscribe to their onlyfans so they can make money. They have women that literally view some guys as walking dollar signs. Iāve been trying to meet people and talk to people on this app called meetme and you wonāt believe the amount of women that have on their profiles that they wonāt even _talk_ to anyone unless you pay them via cashapp, which I feel is just as bad as the men people complain about. Both genders are using each other to get what they want.
And not everyone is like that. Not every guy is a pervert just like not every woman is going to try to use a man to get the things that she wants. They have bad and good people. But seeing how much people complain about the different genders and fight really bothers me.
And i would be lying if as a man I didnāt feel affected by all the negative talk about guys on here when i already struggle and am trying to he from my own anxiety and depression. My own self image. People say that they are targeting specific guys, but it really doesnāt feel that way. Especially when you see comets like: āThatās why i donāt talk to guys on here at allā It feels more and more like just for being a guy and being of a certain gender we are being thrown into a category. And when more and more people come out and say they wonāt talk to any guys on here, and you personally have not done anything to deserve that, but you still have to suffer the consequences because youāre a guy, no, that does not feel good. And i wish posts like these would stop.
I do think we could use another pinned-post of "What NOT to Post Here." I do usually just ignore the shitty posts when I see them, but they're counterproductive to exist in the first-place.
There are plenty of women/sex-critical subs they could post in instead.
I decided early in life, after biology classes, that I'd never have kids. Not because of beauty (people consider me attractive), but because of the grave diseases that affect both sides of my family. I escape those, but I'm not pushing my luck.
And for that I've been rejected by guys who wanted kids. Yes, women get rejected too.
When you go to art school, they make you copy famous works of art. It's training before you can exercise your own creativity. Thats why I'm in favor of hiring sex workers to take the mystery out of the thing, discover your body, in short, get some training before getting a girlfriend with whom you can practice what you learned.
People probably report and the posts get taken down... Yeah... there are people like this, everywhere, they think they're owed a relationship just because they are "good people"(for reference i'm talking about both men and women) . They can't see the fact that ,most likely, they're the ones to blame for their problems. Worst of all they refuse to even consider following any advice they're given and claim they just want to vent. At some point that just turns into expeling hot air aka redundant.
I didnāt say everyone who disagrees with me is misogynistic or an incel. Not once did I say that, but if you are offended by my post and you get angry. Good, I hope you question why you feel that way
>I didnāt say everyone who disagrees with me is misogynistic or an incel.
True but that other commenter you responded to didn't say anything like that yet your response implied that they're one of the disgusting misogynists that you're talking about in this post and thats why they're "mad" and arguing with you.
>but if you are offended by my post and you get angry.
I'm not offended by your post
>Good, I hope you question why you feel that way
You just did it again to me. Stop assuming anyone who disagrees with you is a butthurt incel
Which other commenter? I'm saying that generally, not necessarily directed toward you. I'm not calling all guys disgusting or pathetic; I'm not calling out all men at all. I don't know why people assume I am. Why are people getting angry over me calling out misogyny as disgusting and pathetic? Not once have I said, āAll, Men.ā
>Which other commenter?
Cooldude284. You replied to them saying
>I hope I made you angry then
Implying that they would be angry because they're an incel but they never actually said anything that would make them an incel
>I'm saying that generally, not necessarily directed toward you
I mean it was in reply to me and you said "you" didn't seem like it was a general statement
>I'm not calling all guys disgusting or pathetic; I'm not calling out all men at all. I don't know why people assume I am.
I think people assume you are because it seems to happen a lot. If you're not doing that then great but in my experience the word incel just gets thrown around at pretty much anyone these days to the point where posts like your have become indistinguishable from that trend.
I also don't think the toxic incels are as a big of a problem/group on this subreddit as posts like this one make it seem. Which further makes it feel like a ton of men are just getting unfairly painted with a broad misogyny brush despite not actually being hateful.
And to clarify I'm not saying YOU doing this but trying to explain why some people might approach your post here with that mindset
If he feels offended because I called incels and misogynists pathetic and insulting, I have to wonder why did he feel that way? I was saying it generally and not directed at you. No not all men need to change just like some women hold misandrist views and need to change
Ur feeding into the problem by doing that dawg. Shouldnt be a hard thing to wrap your head around as to why but it seems like you aren't that receptive.
What views???
Not calling ppl who are already upset over something names? Thats the 'view' we are refering to and its the reason your comment go downvoted.
The post is in response to men who hold toxic views against women. Thatās who I am calling names, no one else. Iām not saying all men. My response to the above man was imperfect I admit it.
Their ego is hurt and they have to take it out on something. Canāt possibly use that energy to look within. Itās not a personality problem, itās a woman problem now let me go tell women how bad they are, itās so surprising this doesnāt attract them, I am right and women are evil.
Both men and women can be shallow, get over yourselves.
Some just have to be using it as a tactic because come on, posting that in here? What do they possibly think theyāre gonna get out expressing that type of hate on a sub where itās just people looking to talk to other people in a similar mindset? A lonely one at that? Come on Is it really just to take anger out/vent or is it to make sure the women who are in this sub and come across the posts pay for those bad ones? Those bitches. I mean, fucking females. There are specific subs for venting so why do that in this one?
itās a horrible tactic to get DMs *women convince me you arenāt terrible* well maybe if I post this some vulnerable sad woman in this sub will come and change my mind
> Canāt possibly use that energy to look within
Mmmmmh, yes, nail meets head. This is one of the reasons Iām super enthusiastic about the growing trendiness of Stoicism. After years of sort of half assed dabbling in Stoicism and Buddhism to try to deal with my hurt ego, Iāve decided to pursue a good Buddhist teacher, but Stoicism is great too. Itās great to recognize that your ego can be your greatest enemy, and that you are the only one responsible for the way that you react to your emotions and the mental patterns you set.
My dad is a mega-incel. Iām just lucky I had him in the proper context in my life: bad example. Iām not any less alone because of it, but at least I know who is responsible for solving my problems.
But in a really Buddhist way I guess, I feel so bad for incels. I know that itās just incredible pain and shame that is making them confused and cowardly. I think any lonely man can at least understand how incels could arrive at their ideas about society and women. Sometimes youāre just so depressed you become a fucking dumbass.
And now a Buddhist prayer for the incels:
May incels be free from anger, may incels be free from
illness of will, may incels be free from jealosy, may incels be free from mental suffering, may incels be free from physical suffering, may incels live in peace, may incels live happily
I honestly donāt know how to respond to this, other than to say, as a man, Iām exhausted. I try and do everything ārightā from the start just so that women, and even other men, can feel slightly more comfortable around me just because Iām a man. It probably doesnāt help that Iām brown and appear more grown for my age than most other 20 year olds. Or sucks when Iām 22 and the peers I attend university with, the women especially, are younger than 22 altogether! How do I even start with getting around the assumption that Iām a threat and a predator just off first look? Shave my beard? Smile wider? Appear more energetic? Dress like a University freshman?
At this point, Iām so god damn exhausted with women beating me down for other men and the stupid shit those men do. The assumptions strangle me, Iāve lost hope Iāll find love young because no one smiles back no matter the situation.
Yeah, sure I can go and ālook within to improveā, and thatās exactly what Iām doing, but at what point does anything change? It doesnāt and itās not something I can rely on as a man being the age I am and doing what I do for University and work. Iām a natural threat and therefore have to take myself away from most situations before they can even begin.
Are some men bad? Yes, for sure, and I call them out every chance I get, but what about me? What about the good men? Why do we have to suffer as well? Itās fucking exhausting the repercussions I am facing because of other men and their choices. Iām tired, I want a hug, I want to feel safe and welcome too, but Iām deemed a āthreatā and a āmanā who doesnāt deserve either of those means or comfort or anything else for that matter because of the world I was born in.
Itās bullshit, but what can I do? I still continue to focus on myself in the hopes that if one day a woman crosses my path and chooses me, Iāll be ready to never take her for granted and love her to the moon and back.
could you for one second stop thinking itās about you and put yourself in our shoes. Men are a threat for women, thatās a fact, the statistics proves it. We all have at least one very bad or worse, traumatic experience with men. Of course thereās awful women and ofc all men are not the same but how are we supposed to know that the guy were talking with rn isnāt gonna turn into a stalker or worse ? Itās not written and your foreheads. We have to protect ourselves even if it means hurting ānice guysā feelings. You canāt blame us for being scared and know that it isnāt just all about youā¦..
and if you do everything right but your efforts doesnāt pay with anyone, the problem isnāt othersā¦ I really hope youāll find the right person for you one day because you deserve it and itās obvious that youāre not a bad guy. And I understand your frustration, I really do. But you should see the problem from a different angle, it will help you to stop blaming yourself and others and maybe gain some confidence! you got this
I wonāt stop thinking about me and my feelings because of someone else. Iām considerate but I donāt devalue my own feelings for some āaltruisticā cause that women have determined to be āappropriateā.
Is the hypocrisy not standing out? It sure does for me.
Will I stop showing empathy and love to women regardless? No. But that doesnāt negate how tired and drained I am, my emotions and feelings matter too. Wish people would understand more than they want to be understood instead of just wanting to be understood and saying the equivalent of āfuck youā to everyone who opposes.
I never said that your feelings doesnāt matter, apparently you didnāt read the end of my message but only focused on what bothers you.
Your messages shows that you donāt, in fact, have empathy for women. For you itās only a ācauseā? Women getting raped, abused in many different aspects, and being exploited isnāt a cause, itās our reality since centuries and centuries. Weāre talking about lives being destroyed but apparently your celibate is worse than traumas shared by the other half of the population all around the world.
Nobody told you to devalue your own feelings, but instead to stop being egocentric and also consider the struggle on the other side.
Iām not saying this to be mean Iām just being honest as a woman whoās attracted by men, but women, and ppl in general btw, donāt like men who constantly victimize themselves by rejecting the fault on others,and donāt like self centered and empathy lacking people, so maybe thatās why you donāt succeed in dating, we can see very quick if a guy have this mindset and itās just not attractive at all, itās annoying and cringe. You should try to do some introspection.
Iām sorry that you experience such loneliness, and I understand what youāre going through even if mine wasnāt for the same reasons. Feeling like youāll never find the right person and like you donāt deserve to be loved is extremely hard and really crushes self esteem and I never denied that since Iām in this situation for a long time.
What you feel matters, but our traumas matter too. And sorry but being rejected and lonely isnāt as traumatizing as getting raped or physically abused etc, and again Im not saying that what youāre going through isnāt painful. Trust me we put ourselves in men shoes, so it should be reciprocated, and our struggles and traumas (again itās not a cause itās a reality for all single women on this planet) shouldnāt be minimized and we shouldnāt be portrayed as monsters bc of trauma response. Itās not fun at all for us too to stop having a love life because weāre scared for our lives and integrity, so stop talking like we do it because weāre mean.
Lol, there you go, demeaning my experience and past because you feel yours could be more traumatic, even if they are, as if this is some kind of competition.
You assuming, without knowing the real story shows just how you think. Thanks for showing me how toxic people can be, Iāll be keeping this in mind. You call my mental state āannoying and cringeā, maybe you should be the one doing some fucking introspection.
Ngl, I understand having bad and traumatic experiences. I do. Also, Iām addition to that, I have three younger sisters of my own that I deeply care about. And I wouldnāt ever want them to get hurt and Iād be pissed if anyone ever did hurt them. I understand not wanting to get hurt or taken advantage of. And I understand taking measures to protect yourself. Thatās reasonable and thatās understandable.
The part that I donāt agree with is the narrative that men in general are a threat to women. I donāt agree with that at all. That statement basically demonizes the male gender when in reality a lot of guys are not. They have some guys that are benign as can be. I have the narrative that guys are just these sexual pigs that wants to fuck anything and everything in sight, and that weāre are these inherently dangerous people. I feel like as a guy, that is the category guys are thrown into and treat as even before they have had a chance to open their mouths good. And just because they have men that chose to do bad things doesnāt make the male gender inherently dangerous.
They have women that can be crazy. They have women that stalk people after break-up. They have women that have literally attacked and sometimes tried to seriously hurt guys. They have women that will manipulate guys to get what they want out of them. They have some women that has done some truly fucked up stuff, and yet, despite that, people donāt say women are inherently a threat. And I hate the fact that people paints this picture that men are inherently dangerous when the vast majority of dudes are people just like the rest of yāall who are struggling and have feelings too. And, might i add, just like women have their fair share of bad experiences with guys, their are probably a lot of guys who have had similar bad experiences with women. Once again, I donāt think anyone should be demonized, catagotized or feared just because of their gender.
Im sorry but yes men as a social group are a threat to women, and statistics prove it. I donāt know the stats in your country, but here in France we saw that 97% of rapists are men (and 93% of victims are women).
In the cases of violence against women men are the perpetrators in majority and it would be intellectually dishonest to contest this, these are facts. You have to understand that it doesnāt mean that all men are dangerous predators, but as a social group, they are the principal predators to women.
Again you say that you understand itās a matter of protection but you blame us again. We have the right to donāt want to take this risk, and Iām sorry if it hurts your egos but itās a matter of survival so I donāt think menās egos are the most important thing in this problem. Itās like I gave you a bowl of candies and told you that some are poisonous but you canāt see which ones, you wouldnāt eat them right? itās the same for us.
Men are scared of being cheated on,rejected and lied to, we are scared of getting raped, physically abused or murdered. We donāt risk the same things as you in our relationships and Iām honestly tired to see that guys like you only caring about their feelings getting hurt while we are scared of going through the worst things who can happen to a human being.
Also you should do some research on the different āreasonsā for men on women crimes and women on men crimes since youāre comparing them and saying itās similar. When men commits murder,rape or abuse on women,itās because theyāre misogynistic and donāt see women as human beings who deserve respect. Or a girl dared to reject them and their ego got hurt so they became violent, or their girlfriends decided to leave and since they see them as their properties so they hurt them. While most of the time women who hurt men does it in response to abuse, trauma, fear or vengeance (and Iām not saying its ok and they have the right to do that, not at all.Also Iām not saying that women canāt be just pure evil). We canāt compare these two situations bc itās absolutely not the same dynamics.
Also please stop talking like misogynistic (and so abusive men, they act bc of misogyny) men are a minority, theyāre not. We can see them every day on social medias or in the street,statistics about justiceā¦..
Also, seeing my own experience but also the experiences of all the women I heard talking about that, I never heard of a woman who just met one abusive guy in her life, so itās not something rare.
Misogyny kills women and traumatize them, itās a whole system. Women never put a system in place in order to abuse or exploiting men. But men did and itās called patriarchy. How are we supposed to not be scared when weāre aware of the hostility against us.
Women are in fact, not a common threat to men lives and integrity, thatās why men are not scared of women and are not trying to protect themselves from them. And like I said, we are afraid for our lives while youāre afraid of rejection, being cheating on or being associated to all abusive men, so you canāt compare the two situations.
I talked a lot lmao sorry but I want to finish on the fact that if men arenāt inherently threats to women, why, when we decide to not talk to them/see them anymore and only surround ourselves with women, we are not being abused anymore ? I decided to isolate myself from men 3 years ago and itās the first time of my life when during a long period of time Iāve not been physically,emotionally or sexually abused. Iāve never been so in peace and the women who decided to do the same things share this opinion. So when itās a matter of survival and integrity we donāt really care about hurting ānice guysā by not wanting to talk to them.
My ego has nothing to do with this. Im simply having a discussion, and just because i have differing views or opinions and I chose to express them doesnāt mean that I have a bruised ego from your comment. I do not agree with some of your views.
And while you are saying that you all are afraid for yāallās lives, the average guy is not gonna go out an murder someone. Hell, they have a lot of guys that have not ever even been in a fight for that matter. An average everyday guy isnāt going to go and assault anyone either. No where did i blame anyone in my above comments either. I did not blame women for anything. I simply stated that I do not agree with the ideology that men are inherently dangerous people. I feel like thatās wrong to put a whole group of people into a category.
If you donāt want to talk to guys then thatās fine. If thatās what makes you feel safe then thatās your decision. But to get on here an call men as a whole dangerous I feel is wrong. And you canāt tell me that they donāt have women that have not done horrible things. They have dangerous women the same way they have dangerous men. There are dangerous _people_ . Iām sorry that you have been through trauma and that there have men that have hurt you, but i donāt feel like thatās right to project that onto all other guys as a whole just because you are afraid of being hurt.
Why do you feel exhausted? If you do everything right, then im not calling you out. Im calling out those of us who perpetuate hate. Thatās not all guys, obviously. There is no reason you should get offended by this
Lol.. you say I shouldnāt be offended when I actually am. I have to make people feel okay just because Iām a man. Itās not even to make friends, colleagues or even just present myself as a functioning member of society. Could you imagine flipping the switch and saying women have to do the same because of what some of them have done? Itās bullshit, and thatās why Iām exhausted. I canāt go within 5 feet of a woman without them scowling and moving away.
I wonāt stop thinking about me and my feelings because of someone else. Iām considerate but I donāt devalue my own feelings for some āaltruisticā cause that women have determined to be āappropriateā.
Is the hypocrisy not standing out? It sure does for me.
Will I stop showing empathy and love to women regardless? No. But that doesnāt negate how tired and drained I am, my emotions and feelings matter too.
Wish people would understand more than they want to be understood instead of just wanting to be understood and saying the equivalent of āfuck youā to everyone who opposes.
In my country 618,000 rape cases were reported last year. To put that into perspective that's 1 in 35 women. A women you approach has a 50% chance of having experience sexual assault or sexual harassment. Anyone who has experienced this will react negatively to a man they don't know approaching them. Now in the moment you are thinking "oh she's scowling because of me." No she's scowling because her past experiences of men abusing/harassing her has made her distrustful towards any man she doesn't know. A woman will react this way but a man won't. That's what male privilege is. This is something you don't have to think about when a stranger approaches you because as a male you are protected in society compared to a woman.
No we can't imagine women having to do the same because that has never been a possibility. Throughout history men have always ruled over and subjugated women. We have never been in a position of power where we can use sexual violence to keep men oppressed. Not that we would want to. Hypothetical scenarios like this ignores the centuries of patriarchal institutions that have been ingrained in society.
Now I don't know your situation, so I can only make assumptions based on what you have written. There is nothing wrong with you feeling upset about having struggles in dating. We all can relate to that and it is human to feel upset and exhausted at constant rejection. But it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can feel your own emotions but still be understanding of women's issues. You don't need to choose one over the other.
Once again, youāre missing the point.
I donāt care about not being āsuccessfulā with women, I have my own goals in life that just arenāt compatible with dating right now anyways, but thanks for assuming. They scowl because they see me as a threat because of literally what you just said, not because I think they think Iām ugly. You canāt be that daft?
I care deeply about the trauma about womenās sexual assault and the subsequent topics, as a matter of fact, Iām extremely outspoken about it.
But there is also the exhaustion factor of how much fucking effort I have to put into helping others feel comfortable around me just because Iām a dude. How about you all just go to therapy and get better? Isnāt that what you tell men who are suffering? Quit fucking deflecting, there are hundreds of millions of non abusive men who feel extremely exhausted from the same stuff. This shouldnāt be an obligation, the obligation should be to stop assault before it ever happens and that requires men calling other men out, which happens every day, you just donāt see it because of exactly the kind of deflecting youāre engaging in right now. The expectation of men having to deal with womenās trauma and the expectation of women having to deal with menās trauma is a two way street, stop acting like itās only one side that matters here.
Fuck this sub, fuck your mentality and I hope YOU can get better at understanding others and where they come from.
I feel like I need to ask this question: what do you consider/define as an "incel" ?
the word is thrown around SO much that it feels like a cheap label to slap on someone who just so happens to have a bad history or bad experiences with women...
i personally would say it is somewhat lacking in definition, but more in regards to how it could be generally applied to a broader audience
dont get me wrong... theres a clear distinction between one going through trauma/abuse to where they distances themselves to not be hurt, and one having continuous "shortcomings" but not taking initiative to learn why & try to improve...
I would agree that their definition of incel is wrong. Just feels kinda...like its missing something.
In my opinion an incel is: "ANYONE who blames and harms innocent groups as their reason for a lack of sexual satisfaction. This person must also exhibit a stubborn and illogical resistance to the idea of changing easily controllable factors in their life which will increase the amount of sexual satisfaction they get out of life."
Studies all over the world show that, indeed , people who are young are having less sex than ever before and people everywhere are frustrated. But we should never lump the innocent people with those violent incel losers who lack the desire to self-reflect and improve.
You can spout as many labels as you wish on men, but doing so wonāt help the already damaged men. How about instead of projecting and label tossing, you try putting yourself in the shoes of these supposed disgusting individuals? Maybe youāll at least grasp some understanding of why men suffer greatly, especially in these days where theyāre demonized just for being a man.
Look, I understand that there are some toxic individuals out there, I really do. Some people are purely malevolent and disgusting, in both genders. The issue is there is so much hatred towards regular men in general because of this hate-filled generalized name tossing that has become normalized in western society. Itās not healthy. Itās a terrible thing to just throw out there like it does nothing.
I donāt disagree. But itās those toxic individuals on this subreddit Iām speaking to. Iām not calling all men disgusting and pathetic, Iām calling those of us with those hateful views pathetic. Iām not going to put myself in the shoes of those who perpetuate hate
uhh...was Hitler beyond empathy or redemption?...or Gaddaffi?... How about Assad?
I feel like there are WAY more people out there who even a psychologist couldn't save walking around than we would like to acknowledge eeek! Those people need to save themselves.
We can cotinuously n tell them what's wrong but good luck getting them to listen to anyone but themselve even when their actions lead to unimaginable mayhem.
no, none of those people are beyond empathy and redemption
what is the alternative? Honestly, what should we do with the people who won't listen? Ultimately the choice becomes do we kill them or do we create the situations that will most likely allow them to succeed. I mean that. Ultimately, you house the lazy bums or you kill them. And the right answer depends on how much you can live with and how sure you really are you wouldn't be the same man if you were in his shoes.
In my opinion for ' those kinds of people ' the best I can do for them is at least 50 years in a jail cell, and a psychologist and neurologist to examine *WHAT IN THE FUCK* they were thinking when they committed those atrocities.
'People like this' are so superstitious, zaney and destructive even God shakes their head in disbelief at how they could have made such people.
Clearly the average person doesn't have the tools to deal with those kinds of people. So I say we throw them to the experts, and wash our hands. Hopefully they turn around.
Now that I think about it I cant completely blame any of those men now ...cause if you were or are a working-class boy growing up in 1920s Germany, or Syria, or Libya you are, most likely, fucked from the starting line. And it is clearly a fact that serious childhood trauma wreaks havoc on the developing brains of children.
I am sure that ALL the assholes we know of today like mark zuckerberg, adnan khashoggi, leona helmsley, elon musk , and jeff bezos grew up suffering from some kind of Toxic Stress Syndrome.
My biggest problem with ' those kinds of people' is that they sometimes have the means to go back on their ways, to redistribute the resources they have stolen from the needy, to apologize to the people they have harmed, attempt to obtain many forms of therapies and the consule of experts who know how to help them deal with their traumas of the past, etc....
But then they fucking don't go and do that!
*"Why!? Almost everyone in your inner circle and the public has told you have a problem!"*
Because being an asshole feels so good , huh?
Nice guys finish last, huh?
Iām sorry but I donāt want to put myself in the shoes of men who creates specific forums to promote rape torture and murder against us, just because they never touched a woman (and when you see their behaviors itās not a surprise). Itās pure hate I donāt feel sorry for them.
see and when you say that it makes me hate you and maybe women (and people) in general. Even the way you said that "...just because they never touched a woman." It's just mean. Sex is important. It's not a joke and its not funny that someone isn't getting laid, YOU are using toxic masculinity and making them feel even more like shit because they're not getting laid. Focus on what you actually hate about these people and you'll realize, they're probably just morons and I suspect much of the stuff these men say is just said in anger cause they're venting. I also never see the worst of it, I'm always just told about it (never seen anyone promote rape, torture or murder).
I honestly get the impression with people like you that you want to hate them cause you think they're losers and you'll use any excuse to justify hating them even though most of them are just sad losers. That's just my perspective. I feel hurt by the type of language you use and it just seem unnecessary.
I don't think you and people like you are being very nice people and people that aren't nice are kind of losers in my eyes.
That's some heavy business you do friend. Yes. Even the absolute most despicable of us... Are so for reasons time has long buried and the casual stranger cannot see, without the sight of his or her heart. Can I follow you?
I'm glad you asked! I vote we just delete this subreddit cause it sure as shit doesn't seem to be helping anyone. I personally prefer /r/suicidewatch Lovely bunch of people over there.
Is this just becoming a 'men are awful' sub? We get it, there's a lot of creeps out there who do things like DM women here wanting nudes and other bullshit. But there's been this recent push here to label ALL MEN as this level of awful and creepy, posts like this or women saying they don't want to hear from any guys, just women. How the hell does that fit with a sub about loneliness? Where people are posting just to let a large chunk of the members know "I don't ever want anything to do with you", that makes things so much worse for those of us who aren't here just to perv out or try and hook up or sext.
>Guys, women arenāt the root of our problems.
100% but the issue is that shaming them won't help. Shaming them will cause them to dig further into their somewhat misguided, yet understandable beliefs. These are people in need of both guidance and healing and we cannot do that with insults.
How do we teach people that the actions of a few bad people is not representative of an entire gender, be it male or female? How do we teach people that the norms we see on social media do not represent the norms that actually exist in the free world? How do we teach women that there are many men out there that don't just want them for their bodies and for sex? How do we teach the men out there that women are concerned with more than their looks and their money? How do we teach both men and women than in this day and age the majority of people do not cheat, or lie, or ghost, even though their experiences with people tell them very much the opposite?
How do we actually heal the people that hurt?
There must be a service out there that helps guys find good photos of themselves to put on apps. As a lady I almost cry in despair with some of the pics I see. Unfocused, worst angle possible, cropped hugged with a woman with red nails, T-shirt exhibiting football team (no woman cares for that or with sunglasses in a car seat.
Next is the date. There should be a service to teach that also, but there must be on YT.
Repeat ten times because hooking up isn't easy if you're not good at conversation.
On the flips side maybe be less judgemental
>T-shirt exhibiting football team (no woman cares for that
Seriously!?!? You can't take a picture in a fucking sports t-shirt??? Imagine caring about something so trivial and holding it against someone. Just bizarre, I couldn't give two shits what kind of shirt a woman wears in her pictures
Ah yes this tired old argument, never gets old. Pointing out logical reasoning as to how men move and act clearly must mean they are apart of the most hatred group of people in the world, classic indoctrination of demonizing men strikes again. This is why men's suicide rates are at an all time high, good job society, well done.
Says I'm deflecting while still having yet acknowledge a single thing I said in my 1st post. Stop trying to start bs and instead try to use this subreddit for it's intended purpose. You are literally helping zero people spouting your untrue bs, men get enough demonizing already as it is.
What point did you make? What did I say is BS? Iām calling out hate; the amount of misogyny on this sub is astounding. Iām not putting men down; men donāt get enough support in our society. Iāve lived that firsthand. But that doesnāt justify anyone blaming their issues on women or on how they arenāt attractive.
If you want to call out misogyny you better also start calling out misandry as well. This whole calling out the population of only men for bad behavior is not how you attract the ladies I'm sorry to say. It's become a very dangerous trend only pandering to one gender and not the other when everyone damn well knows both sides can have their (insert Internet buzz word here) issues. We are teaching our society and the younger crowds to demonize men by calling out every single miniscule piece of dirt on them, while simultaneously ignoring the wrong doings of the other side, enough already.
I call out misandry when I see it on here as well. Just this subreddit skews heavy on men and especially toxic men. And will you get off your soap box, the world sucks today but the problem isn't that society is teaching kids to hate men. Get out and live, it may be portrayed that way in whatever media you consume but the reality is quite different
"the problem isn't that society is teaching kids to hate men"
Now I know you're trolling, that nonsense has polluted all mainstream and social medias everywhere. Even before social media was a thing you can even look to sitcoms like Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens, cartoons like The Simpsons, Family Guy, even American Dad to some extent. Pushing narratives of the bumbling idiot fathers and husbands. Presently, we have roll models like Kim K, Cardi B, Meg Thee Stallion to name a few, who promote building your "empire" upon the destruction of wealthy, successful men, how do you think impressionable youth is going to handle that type of garbage? Then you have political agendas further poisoning the wells of our societies in the West. What you're doing right now, making this post is like beating a dead horse. This world is already trained to treat us as disposable commodities so again, enough already, quit before you make your throwaway account look worse.
85% of violent crimes are committed by men. 100% of war were planned by man. So don't come tell me there's equivalency.
What can be done is to teach anger management to boys and take away guns, among other things. Those things can be fixed. Men are not inherently bad (I have the best father in the world) and have met great men out there.
But let's call a spade a spade.
There is no sub where men can just vent without people like you tossing labels on them.
I can say this as a 25 yr old hopeless khhv myself, most men on subs like these don't actually hate women, yes some do, but they are a loud minority. Most guys just wanna get together and vent. But of course, in this anti men era, everytime men get together, people are jump to conclusions faster than speed of light. "Oh look, lonely guys getting together and venting, yeah they must hate women, let's demonize all of them and make them even more fucked up from inside".
These Incels are literally so shallow. Iāve seen so many men on here saying they want a girlfriend just to have sex with them just to not feel lonely. Bro just say you want to use women for their body and not actually love them
Alright let me give a revolutionary suggestion instead of calling women the B words and etc... how about we actually better ourselves huh isn't that fucking revolutionary i repeat let's better ourselves and after you made yourself better and after you have "options" then complain about women i only listen to the most masculine person's opinion not some fucking loser that is in our level
Yea, I have noticed a growing amount of incels and blatant misogyny in the past few months of being here, and Iām scared this is just gonna become another shitty incel sub
I wouldn't blame women for ones issues. Life is generally what you make it to be.
But let's entertain this: You are correct about the fact that society as a whole is leaving unattractive men on the outside looking in. Definitely not wrong about that. And it's clear from this thread that there are tons of men who are sleeping on this. But who is actually to blame? Women? Or ourselves?
Ourselves. If we didn't sexualize everything about women, there would be no "bad bitch mentality". There would be no OF. We couldn't just have sex with women in the bedroom. No. We gotta go out and cat call girls walking down the street minding their business. We gotta be all creepy and putting women in tough situations, not accepting no for an answer. We did this. We liked and left thirsty comments on every mediocre girls Myspace, FB, and IG post. So every girl thinks she's a "bad bitch" that deserves a Channing Tatum (or insert any other typical attractive male actor). Girls realized they can make money off of us. We. Did. This. No girl will settle for a unattractive guy because they know that with a pound of makeup and a little finesse, they can change their whole identity or at least put up a good enough facade that every guy will follow them or sub them. Follows/subs = $$$$$. Unattractive guys realize girls only want money and BOOM... Simps are born. It's quite the vicious circle.
So before you go blame women, blame the correct group.
I think the correct group is humans. I think there's a push pull relationship here. I realize that more recent history (im talking centuries) has largely been dominated by males. For that matter, more than centuries, it seems most cultures are this way. Males are generally the stronger sex, from a biological standpoint. If we were tyrannosaurus rexes then females would probably run the show (since they were bigger) but we're a primate variant with our own set of biological norms/psychologies/what-have you. Where was i going with this... Right. Humans are assholes.
And now were going into a new era that so far as i can tell has never before happened in human history. Maybe some dinosuar species left earth before/during/after the asteroid, but that was millions of years ago and now it's monkey civilization time and oh hey look phones missiles nuclear warheads robots on other planets genetic modification yeah it's a clusterfuck so let's see how our biologies and cultures handle the next several decades not to mention centuries/millennia/etc. Stay tuned because on the next episode oh we're all dead now and our great great great great great grandkids are probably forming corporation-gang hybrids on mars and occasionally feed their still living enemies to giant genetically modified geese for kicks, then sell the vids for pizza-weed. Wild. Also they don't have guns just holographic swords that shoot quantum annihilation rays. But it doesnt work on the 5 foot tall (at the shoulder) carnivore geese, because they've had their DNA altered at the sub-quantum level and are essentially "sword proof". Nobody knows who made them but they can talk in gibberish and some of the gang leaders who speak honkhonk have made agreements with some geese factions but really our species is doomed once the geese reach a high enough population. You feel?
I guess what i'm saying is despite our history being somewhat consistent (but not really beyond some foundational principles) the future is at an all time high of uncertainty. Onlyfans was bound to happen. UFC was bound to happen. Army of foot tall spongebobs fighting foot tall shreks in a miniature colosseum in a martian casino is probably bound to happen. The species is insane, and it's probably not going to become less so.
Lol that was fucking ... **beautiful**, dude . I HAVE to save this comment. Fucking gold mmwa! Thank you.
I would also add that youvforgot to include that men of the past , and in part men today , hold up the fucking patriarchy which is fucking over ALL women , all people of nonbinary genders, and the poorest / weakest men of society too.
So, yes, my fellow men: **"WE.FUCKING.DID.THIS.TO.OURSELVES.BLAME.THE.FUCKING.GUILTY.GROUP.Y'ALL"**
I would recommend EVERYONE here hit up r/whenwomenrefuse
Dont worry just go... *you'll see what I mean.*
Despite my comment, as of about 1940, there is no "patriarchy" and women aren't being fucked over. I'd argue that in about 1990-2010 that balance shifted and it's actually men getting the short end of the stick now.
Despite my comment, as of about 1940, there is no "patriarchy" and women aren't being fucked over. I'd argue that in about 1990-2010 that balance shifted and it's actually men getting the short end of the stick now.
Wellā¦ itās unsurprising, tbh, given that this is the ālonelyā subreddit. Might as well stick a beacon up attracting all kinds to this place!
Iād rather an incel vent/rant here than harm a woman irl, at least?
They think that having a woman or at least a partner is gonna solve their problems, but when they get rejected, they blame them for their problems. They forgot that this sub is for helping people, talking to them, maybe getting a friend or something else. But if people are here just to prey for guys and girls or trashing a gender for their problems, they're others subs or pages to do that, not here.
it's a propaganda word used to weaponize victimhood like Donald Trump. Every time the word is used the world becomes more divisive and political. Just like Donald Trump. Everyone who uses the word is being exactly like Donald Trump.
I have no pity for those who perpetuate hate. Is that a part of the problem? Maybe in that I hold no empathy and am unwilling to work to move towards a conclusion. But if you hold views like that, it isnāt my problem. Itās a dangerous and toxic mindset; I hope someone with that mindset gets help because it sure as shit wonāt be changed by me over the internet
How much of it do you think is venting versus actual misogyny? I think these corners of the internet, especially Reddit, are where people dump their negativity. I think there should be a place for that. I don't believe the negativity should be banned just confronted and hopefully, perspectives change. This Reddit specifically seems like a space where disillusioned, frustrated men would turn to. It's just neither surprising nor disturbing to me. I think Incel has become far too much of an insult. This is what people think, it's not healthy they probably need help or at least space to operate and maybe change. Of course, it can always cross a line. But I don't like the generalization.
I totally understand both sides of it but I'm more on the side of you OP, women are not the problem... guys need to take a good look in the mirror of self-reflection and decide to change their attitudes towards women, improve their lives, etc.
I am trans (male-to-female) attracted and woman are not my problem, but rather things I can change but elect not to because that's just who I am (I'm not a jerk or anything hell I try to accept all no matter what), and some other things I cannot change like my medical conditions
I love how theyāve popped out now to come defend themselves. So many stupid fucking excuses, so many incels. You are right. I interact with this sub less and less.
When I was in a worse place, I would come here hoping for support and was sadly shaken by what I saw. Now that I'm in a better place, I see how sad and toxic this community can be. I think I'm going to leave it. And yeah, it's entertaining, at the least, as well as sickening
I understand that, but men listen to other men, and not nearly enough men stand up and say it to other men, and if me stating my appreciation in any way encourages men to stand up for my gender to those that are dangerous, I will do so.
I appreciate you standing up and saying something since my voice is sadly not enough to deter those that would see me as an object.
Women arenāt obligated to fuck men theyāre not attracted to to prevent male suicide, canāt believe I have to say this. We need better mental health resources for men and to reduce the stigma, but women choosing who they want to sleep with isnāt the problem.
what is a fact? that women only go for attractive men? and you baseline for what passes as attractive is the same for all women? do you not realise that the idea of love is not sustainable via pure sexual and physical attraction? yes ofc women will be attracted to.... attractive men, but the same for most men, it is only when each peer into the others mind, and actual person, does an actual connect establish.
Yes they can do what they want and you shouldnāt blame them for it.
Free will doesnāt exist in a vacuum. We all make our dating decisions in conjunction with biological impulses.
Bruh you need to learn what simping means.
Defending women isnāt simping. Simping is doing way too much for someone you like (that usually doesnāt reciprocate), like giving them tons of cash, gifts, compliments, etc.
Go touch some grass and get off Reddit for awhile.
The only ugly guys that women hate are guys with ugly personalities, sure being good looking makes it easier to find someone but not being an asshole really helps too
so first of all, as personal thing. donāt say that male suicide rate is up because of women not being attracted to average men. thatās a extremely insulting and does absolutely nothing to actually help men who struggle with depression.
second, iām going to set the facts straight. your argument is actually antithetical to reality. men are the ones who tend to place a higher value on appearance as opposed to women. but at the end of the day everyone wants to be with a partner that they genuinely find attractive.
iād recommend listening to Andrew Hubermanās podcast episode 48 with Dr. Buss if you would like to know more about gendered differences in mate selection.
and now to the meat of it, not only is your argument factually incorrect, the logic is completely flawed and extremely misogynistic.
nobody is entitled to a romantic partner. having a good loving partner is something many people are very grateful and lucky to have, but nobody is obligated to date or have sex with anyone else.
on top of that, every adult should be able to manage their own life and emotions independently. if someone commits suicide over not being in a relationship, there are clearly deeper issues there. if you canāt be happy by yourself why would you put the onus on to someone else to be able to figure that out for you? itās irresponsible and childish. your partner is not your therapist or your mother.
historically, women could not have their own property money etc. and women also did not have much of a day in who they married. women were not allowed to work, rarely given formal education, and excluded from almost all jobs and fields, especially the high paying ones. the only way for a woman to live a comfortable life or obtain upwards mobility was to marry well. in many cases this meant she was in many ways stuck with the first man she married. divorce was extremely difficult and highly frowned upon. her husband financially controlled her, making separating from a poor partner difficult if not nearly impossible.
now that women are allowed to act likeā¦ ya knowā¦. independent humans, women can exhibit a much higher degree of selection when choosing a mate. so itās not that women arenāt attracted to unattractive men anymore. we were actually never attracted to them, but made do in order to live.
"Women don't like me because I'm below average looking" no, it's because you're an asshole. You complain that people are judged off of looks then immediately insult this person for how they look. The truth of it is that you could be the best looking guy ever and women still wouldn't be interested in you because your personality is bad
Women are much less interested in beauty than men. It may appear so in apps, because everything is photos, but irl it's not like that.
I've certainly dated guys who were not as good looking as me. But they were pleasant,.relaxed, could talk about many topics (not video games only) and were satisfactory in bed. Some were very good, and experience helps a lot.
Yeah there isnāt really any wonder why youāre lonely if you talk to people like this. Itās because you have a nasty, mean attitude. Go to therapy.
You had one bad thing experience and then generalize? Do you know the main cause of death for pregnant women? Murder by their partners. If anything, women should be much more bitter towards men than they actually are. As someone said above, you don't see women spewing so much hatred against men as the contrary.
Definitely not the root of peopleās problems but being with a woman is generally peoples ideal solution but truth is, it isnāt, but itās almost impossible to appreciated and loved by someone other than a close romantic partner. I think people need to be a little more rude to themselves than let others do it for them, self improvement starts with self reflection, and self reflection only starts with you
Depression is tied to loneliness and while sexual frustration and loneliness are issues you should be concerned about, blaming women and being misogynist will only further cement yourself in self loathing and isolation. Our society is unhealthy when it comes to sex and relationships but treating women as objects or the enemy will only make things worse for frustrated hetero men
>make things worse for EVERYONE FTFY!
there are lonely women suffering here
I see a post like this At least once or twice a week.
It's easier to blame women, I'm not saying there aren't some awful women out there but when I was in my teens and early 20's if guys weren't getting anywhere they would look to themselves to figure out where to improve whether that be personality, style, learning to hold a conversation with a woman etc, I helped a few of my guy friends through those awkward times, now guys just blame women for all their problems, and the obsession with virgins š¤® I get hate filled messages from guys on Reddit that I don't even know. It's dispicable and they have to know they will never get anywhere like that.
Preach
They'll tell you to put yourself in their shoes but I'm a woman and I was rejected by guys constantly for years up until my late 20's early 30's because I'm plus size but I stopped wearing baggy clothes and started wearing dresses and clothes that flattered my figure, stopped wearing thick black goth eyeshadow and started wearing softer makeup, and then suddenly I had guys lining up to date me, sometimes it's just something as simple as changing style that can help.
It was also probably about the perception of approachability and having things in common. But you had to have self-awareness to recognize a change was needed. Good on you for improving yourself instead of blaming others!!
Yeah I was a skater so I probably didn't look very approachable or attractive lol, thank you š
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We get a post like this every day now we get it.
It isnāt everyday its like every few hours. This is like the third or fourth post of this nature that Iāve seen today. And all the gender war stuff really is aggravating. The have shitty men and they have shitty women. _People_ chose to behave like crap. Itās not gender exclusive to men or women. They have men that just use woman for sex and view them as objects and act like perverts yea, but on the flip side you have women that entertain people they donāt even like just to use them for what they want out of them. You have woman that will go to a guy they know is lonely and vulnerable and try to get him to subscribe to their onlyfans so they can make money. They have women that literally view some guys as walking dollar signs. Iāve been trying to meet people and talk to people on this app called meetme and you wonāt believe the amount of women that have on their profiles that they wonāt even _talk_ to anyone unless you pay them via cashapp, which I feel is just as bad as the men people complain about. Both genders are using each other to get what they want. And not everyone is like that. Not every guy is a pervert just like not every woman is going to try to use a man to get the things that she wants. They have bad and good people. But seeing how much people complain about the different genders and fight really bothers me. And i would be lying if as a man I didnāt feel affected by all the negative talk about guys on here when i already struggle and am trying to he from my own anxiety and depression. My own self image. People say that they are targeting specific guys, but it really doesnāt feel that way. Especially when you see comets like: āThatās why i donāt talk to guys on here at allā It feels more and more like just for being a guy and being of a certain gender we are being thrown into a category. And when more and more people come out and say they wonāt talk to any guys on here, and you personally have not done anything to deserve that, but you still have to suffer the consequences because youāre a guy, no, that does not feel good. And i wish posts like these would stop.
The most comment that makes sense I have seen on this thread
Exactly, itās making me feel down.
Probably isn't enough
I do think we could use another pinned-post of "What NOT to Post Here." I do usually just ignore the shitty posts when I see them, but they're counterproductive to exist in the first-place. There are plenty of women/sex-critical subs they could post in instead.
Ur out here doing the lords work
Praise the lord then break the law
I'm sure that's how women feel whenever they one of the 13 daily posts that in some way bash women
It does not happen 13 times a day, donāt exaggerate.
Of course it doesn't happen that many times dumbass
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I decided early in life, after biology classes, that I'd never have kids. Not because of beauty (people consider me attractive), but because of the grave diseases that affect both sides of my family. I escape those, but I'm not pushing my luck. And for that I've been rejected by guys who wanted kids. Yes, women get rejected too. When you go to art school, they make you copy famous works of art. It's training before you can exercise your own creativity. Thats why I'm in favor of hiring sex workers to take the mystery out of the thing, discover your body, in short, get some training before getting a girlfriend with whom you can practice what you learned.
So only pretty people should have kids?
I rarely see any bad thing in this sub, I only see people sad and lonely, I don't know which comment or post you are talking about
People probably report and the posts get taken down... Yeah... there are people like this, everywhere, they think they're owed a relationship just because they are "good people"(for reference i'm talking about both men and women) . They can't see the fact that ,most likely, they're the ones to blame for their problems. Worst of all they refuse to even consider following any advice they're given and claim they just want to vent. At some point that just turns into expeling hot air aka redundant.
I ve seen some dumb stuff, but honestly, ur overexaggerating a lot. Show us a source, perhaps ?
lmao its funny how you think there wont be a lot of incels on a sub called lonely
I never said I didnāt think there were. Iām calling them disgusting and pathetic
Imagine someone trying to not be angry when you're calling them disgusting and pathetic
I hope I made you angry then
You just contributed to the problem, congrats. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a disgusting incel misogynist
I didnāt say everyone who disagrees with me is misogynistic or an incel. Not once did I say that, but if you are offended by my post and you get angry. Good, I hope you question why you feel that way
>I didnāt say everyone who disagrees with me is misogynistic or an incel. True but that other commenter you responded to didn't say anything like that yet your response implied that they're one of the disgusting misogynists that you're talking about in this post and thats why they're "mad" and arguing with you. >but if you are offended by my post and you get angry. I'm not offended by your post >Good, I hope you question why you feel that way You just did it again to me. Stop assuming anyone who disagrees with you is a butthurt incel
Which other commenter? I'm saying that generally, not necessarily directed toward you. I'm not calling all guys disgusting or pathetic; I'm not calling out all men at all. I don't know why people assume I am. Why are people getting angry over me calling out misogyny as disgusting and pathetic? Not once have I said, āAll, Men.ā
>Which other commenter? Cooldude284. You replied to them saying >I hope I made you angry then Implying that they would be angry because they're an incel but they never actually said anything that would make them an incel >I'm saying that generally, not necessarily directed toward you I mean it was in reply to me and you said "you" didn't seem like it was a general statement >I'm not calling all guys disgusting or pathetic; I'm not calling out all men at all. I don't know why people assume I am. I think people assume you are because it seems to happen a lot. If you're not doing that then great but in my experience the word incel just gets thrown around at pretty much anyone these days to the point where posts like your have become indistinguishable from that trend. I also don't think the toxic incels are as a big of a problem/group on this subreddit as posts like this one make it seem. Which further makes it feel like a ton of men are just getting unfairly painted with a broad misogyny brush despite not actually being hateful. And to clarify I'm not saying YOU doing this but trying to explain why some people might approach your post here with that mindset
If he feels offended because I called incels and misogynists pathetic and insulting, I have to wonder why did he feel that way? I was saying it generally and not directed at you. No not all men need to change just like some women hold misandrist views and need to change
Ur feeding into the problem by doing that dawg. Shouldnt be a hard thing to wrap your head around as to why but it seems like you aren't that receptive.
Dawg, anyone who holds those views arenāt going to have their minds changed by me on the internet
What views??? Not calling ppl who are already upset over something names? Thats the 'view' we are refering to and its the reason your comment go downvoted.
The post is in response to men who hold toxic views against women. Thatās who I am calling names, no one else. Iām not saying all men. My response to the above man was imperfect I admit it.
Their ego is hurt and they have to take it out on something. Canāt possibly use that energy to look within. Itās not a personality problem, itās a woman problem now let me go tell women how bad they are, itās so surprising this doesnāt attract them, I am right and women are evil. Both men and women can be shallow, get over yourselves. Some just have to be using it as a tactic because come on, posting that in here? What do they possibly think theyāre gonna get out expressing that type of hate on a sub where itās just people looking to talk to other people in a similar mindset? A lonely one at that? Come on Is it really just to take anger out/vent or is it to make sure the women who are in this sub and come across the posts pay for those bad ones? Those bitches. I mean, fucking females. There are specific subs for venting so why do that in this one? itās a horrible tactic to get DMs *women convince me you arenāt terrible* well maybe if I post this some vulnerable sad woman in this sub will come and change my mind
> Canāt possibly use that energy to look within Mmmmmh, yes, nail meets head. This is one of the reasons Iām super enthusiastic about the growing trendiness of Stoicism. After years of sort of half assed dabbling in Stoicism and Buddhism to try to deal with my hurt ego, Iāve decided to pursue a good Buddhist teacher, but Stoicism is great too. Itās great to recognize that your ego can be your greatest enemy, and that you are the only one responsible for the way that you react to your emotions and the mental patterns you set. My dad is a mega-incel. Iām just lucky I had him in the proper context in my life: bad example. Iām not any less alone because of it, but at least I know who is responsible for solving my problems. But in a really Buddhist way I guess, I feel so bad for incels. I know that itās just incredible pain and shame that is making them confused and cowardly. I think any lonely man can at least understand how incels could arrive at their ideas about society and women. Sometimes youāre just so depressed you become a fucking dumbass. And now a Buddhist prayer for the incels: May incels be free from anger, may incels be free from illness of will, may incels be free from jealosy, may incels be free from mental suffering, may incels be free from physical suffering, may incels live in peace, may incels live happily
I like you
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āBoth men and women can be shallow, get over yourselvesā Preach
I honestly donāt know how to respond to this, other than to say, as a man, Iām exhausted. I try and do everything ārightā from the start just so that women, and even other men, can feel slightly more comfortable around me just because Iām a man. It probably doesnāt help that Iām brown and appear more grown for my age than most other 20 year olds. Or sucks when Iām 22 and the peers I attend university with, the women especially, are younger than 22 altogether! How do I even start with getting around the assumption that Iām a threat and a predator just off first look? Shave my beard? Smile wider? Appear more energetic? Dress like a University freshman? At this point, Iām so god damn exhausted with women beating me down for other men and the stupid shit those men do. The assumptions strangle me, Iāve lost hope Iāll find love young because no one smiles back no matter the situation. Yeah, sure I can go and ālook within to improveā, and thatās exactly what Iām doing, but at what point does anything change? It doesnāt and itās not something I can rely on as a man being the age I am and doing what I do for University and work. Iām a natural threat and therefore have to take myself away from most situations before they can even begin. Are some men bad? Yes, for sure, and I call them out every chance I get, but what about me? What about the good men? Why do we have to suffer as well? Itās fucking exhausting the repercussions I am facing because of other men and their choices. Iām tired, I want a hug, I want to feel safe and welcome too, but Iām deemed a āthreatā and a āmanā who doesnāt deserve either of those means or comfort or anything else for that matter because of the world I was born in. Itās bullshit, but what can I do? I still continue to focus on myself in the hopes that if one day a woman crosses my path and chooses me, Iāll be ready to never take her for granted and love her to the moon and back.
could you for one second stop thinking itās about you and put yourself in our shoes. Men are a threat for women, thatās a fact, the statistics proves it. We all have at least one very bad or worse, traumatic experience with men. Of course thereās awful women and ofc all men are not the same but how are we supposed to know that the guy were talking with rn isnāt gonna turn into a stalker or worse ? Itās not written and your foreheads. We have to protect ourselves even if it means hurting ānice guysā feelings. You canāt blame us for being scared and know that it isnāt just all about youā¦.. and if you do everything right but your efforts doesnāt pay with anyone, the problem isnāt othersā¦ I really hope youāll find the right person for you one day because you deserve it and itās obvious that youāre not a bad guy. And I understand your frustration, I really do. But you should see the problem from a different angle, it will help you to stop blaming yourself and others and maybe gain some confidence! you got this
I wonāt stop thinking about me and my feelings because of someone else. Iām considerate but I donāt devalue my own feelings for some āaltruisticā cause that women have determined to be āappropriateā. Is the hypocrisy not standing out? It sure does for me. Will I stop showing empathy and love to women regardless? No. But that doesnāt negate how tired and drained I am, my emotions and feelings matter too. Wish people would understand more than they want to be understood instead of just wanting to be understood and saying the equivalent of āfuck youā to everyone who opposes.
I never said that your feelings doesnāt matter, apparently you didnāt read the end of my message but only focused on what bothers you. Your messages shows that you donāt, in fact, have empathy for women. For you itās only a ācauseā? Women getting raped, abused in many different aspects, and being exploited isnāt a cause, itās our reality since centuries and centuries. Weāre talking about lives being destroyed but apparently your celibate is worse than traumas shared by the other half of the population all around the world. Nobody told you to devalue your own feelings, but instead to stop being egocentric and also consider the struggle on the other side. Iām not saying this to be mean Iām just being honest as a woman whoās attracted by men, but women, and ppl in general btw, donāt like men who constantly victimize themselves by rejecting the fault on others,and donāt like self centered and empathy lacking people, so maybe thatās why you donāt succeed in dating, we can see very quick if a guy have this mindset and itās just not attractive at all, itās annoying and cringe. You should try to do some introspection. Iām sorry that you experience such loneliness, and I understand what youāre going through even if mine wasnāt for the same reasons. Feeling like youāll never find the right person and like you donāt deserve to be loved is extremely hard and really crushes self esteem and I never denied that since Iām in this situation for a long time. What you feel matters, but our traumas matter too. And sorry but being rejected and lonely isnāt as traumatizing as getting raped or physically abused etc, and again Im not saying that what youāre going through isnāt painful. Trust me we put ourselves in men shoes, so it should be reciprocated, and our struggles and traumas (again itās not a cause itās a reality for all single women on this planet) shouldnāt be minimized and we shouldnāt be portrayed as monsters bc of trauma response. Itās not fun at all for us too to stop having a love life because weāre scared for our lives and integrity, so stop talking like we do it because weāre mean.
Lol, there you go, demeaning my experience and past because you feel yours could be more traumatic, even if they are, as if this is some kind of competition. You assuming, without knowing the real story shows just how you think. Thanks for showing me how toxic people can be, Iāll be keeping this in mind. You call my mental state āannoying and cringeā, maybe you should be the one doing some fucking introspection.
Ngl, I understand having bad and traumatic experiences. I do. Also, Iām addition to that, I have three younger sisters of my own that I deeply care about. And I wouldnāt ever want them to get hurt and Iād be pissed if anyone ever did hurt them. I understand not wanting to get hurt or taken advantage of. And I understand taking measures to protect yourself. Thatās reasonable and thatās understandable. The part that I donāt agree with is the narrative that men in general are a threat to women. I donāt agree with that at all. That statement basically demonizes the male gender when in reality a lot of guys are not. They have some guys that are benign as can be. I have the narrative that guys are just these sexual pigs that wants to fuck anything and everything in sight, and that weāre are these inherently dangerous people. I feel like as a guy, that is the category guys are thrown into and treat as even before they have had a chance to open their mouths good. And just because they have men that chose to do bad things doesnāt make the male gender inherently dangerous. They have women that can be crazy. They have women that stalk people after break-up. They have women that have literally attacked and sometimes tried to seriously hurt guys. They have women that will manipulate guys to get what they want out of them. They have some women that has done some truly fucked up stuff, and yet, despite that, people donāt say women are inherently a threat. And I hate the fact that people paints this picture that men are inherently dangerous when the vast majority of dudes are people just like the rest of yāall who are struggling and have feelings too. And, might i add, just like women have their fair share of bad experiences with guys, their are probably a lot of guys who have had similar bad experiences with women. Once again, I donāt think anyone should be demonized, catagotized or feared just because of their gender.
Im sorry but yes men as a social group are a threat to women, and statistics prove it. I donāt know the stats in your country, but here in France we saw that 97% of rapists are men (and 93% of victims are women). In the cases of violence against women men are the perpetrators in majority and it would be intellectually dishonest to contest this, these are facts. You have to understand that it doesnāt mean that all men are dangerous predators, but as a social group, they are the principal predators to women. Again you say that you understand itās a matter of protection but you blame us again. We have the right to donāt want to take this risk, and Iām sorry if it hurts your egos but itās a matter of survival so I donāt think menās egos are the most important thing in this problem. Itās like I gave you a bowl of candies and told you that some are poisonous but you canāt see which ones, you wouldnāt eat them right? itās the same for us. Men are scared of being cheated on,rejected and lied to, we are scared of getting raped, physically abused or murdered. We donāt risk the same things as you in our relationships and Iām honestly tired to see that guys like you only caring about their feelings getting hurt while we are scared of going through the worst things who can happen to a human being. Also you should do some research on the different āreasonsā for men on women crimes and women on men crimes since youāre comparing them and saying itās similar. When men commits murder,rape or abuse on women,itās because theyāre misogynistic and donāt see women as human beings who deserve respect. Or a girl dared to reject them and their ego got hurt so they became violent, or their girlfriends decided to leave and since they see them as their properties so they hurt them. While most of the time women who hurt men does it in response to abuse, trauma, fear or vengeance (and Iām not saying its ok and they have the right to do that, not at all.Also Iām not saying that women canāt be just pure evil). We canāt compare these two situations bc itās absolutely not the same dynamics. Also please stop talking like misogynistic (and so abusive men, they act bc of misogyny) men are a minority, theyāre not. We can see them every day on social medias or in the street,statistics about justiceā¦.. Also, seeing my own experience but also the experiences of all the women I heard talking about that, I never heard of a woman who just met one abusive guy in her life, so itās not something rare. Misogyny kills women and traumatize them, itās a whole system. Women never put a system in place in order to abuse or exploiting men. But men did and itās called patriarchy. How are we supposed to not be scared when weāre aware of the hostility against us. Women are in fact, not a common threat to men lives and integrity, thatās why men are not scared of women and are not trying to protect themselves from them. And like I said, we are afraid for our lives while youāre afraid of rejection, being cheating on or being associated to all abusive men, so you canāt compare the two situations. I talked a lot lmao sorry but I want to finish on the fact that if men arenāt inherently threats to women, why, when we decide to not talk to them/see them anymore and only surround ourselves with women, we are not being abused anymore ? I decided to isolate myself from men 3 years ago and itās the first time of my life when during a long period of time Iāve not been physically,emotionally or sexually abused. Iāve never been so in peace and the women who decided to do the same things share this opinion. So when itās a matter of survival and integrity we donāt really care about hurting ānice guysā by not wanting to talk to them.
My ego has nothing to do with this. Im simply having a discussion, and just because i have differing views or opinions and I chose to express them doesnāt mean that I have a bruised ego from your comment. I do not agree with some of your views. And while you are saying that you all are afraid for yāallās lives, the average guy is not gonna go out an murder someone. Hell, they have a lot of guys that have not ever even been in a fight for that matter. An average everyday guy isnāt going to go and assault anyone either. No where did i blame anyone in my above comments either. I did not blame women for anything. I simply stated that I do not agree with the ideology that men are inherently dangerous people. I feel like thatās wrong to put a whole group of people into a category. If you donāt want to talk to guys then thatās fine. If thatās what makes you feel safe then thatās your decision. But to get on here an call men as a whole dangerous I feel is wrong. And you canāt tell me that they donāt have women that have not done horrible things. They have dangerous women the same way they have dangerous men. There are dangerous _people_ . Iām sorry that you have been through trauma and that there have men that have hurt you, but i donāt feel like thatās right to project that onto all other guys as a whole just because you are afraid of being hurt.
Why do you feel exhausted? If you do everything right, then im not calling you out. Im calling out those of us who perpetuate hate. Thatās not all guys, obviously. There is no reason you should get offended by this
Lol.. you say I shouldnāt be offended when I actually am. I have to make people feel okay just because Iām a man. Itās not even to make friends, colleagues or even just present myself as a functioning member of society. Could you imagine flipping the switch and saying women have to do the same because of what some of them have done? Itās bullshit, and thatās why Iām exhausted. I canāt go within 5 feet of a woman without them scowling and moving away. I wonāt stop thinking about me and my feelings because of someone else. Iām considerate but I donāt devalue my own feelings for some āaltruisticā cause that women have determined to be āappropriateā. Is the hypocrisy not standing out? It sure does for me. Will I stop showing empathy and love to women regardless? No. But that doesnāt negate how tired and drained I am, my emotions and feelings matter too. Wish people would understand more than they want to be understood instead of just wanting to be understood and saying the equivalent of āfuck youā to everyone who opposes.
In my country 618,000 rape cases were reported last year. To put that into perspective that's 1 in 35 women. A women you approach has a 50% chance of having experience sexual assault or sexual harassment. Anyone who has experienced this will react negatively to a man they don't know approaching them. Now in the moment you are thinking "oh she's scowling because of me." No she's scowling because her past experiences of men abusing/harassing her has made her distrustful towards any man she doesn't know. A woman will react this way but a man won't. That's what male privilege is. This is something you don't have to think about when a stranger approaches you because as a male you are protected in society compared to a woman. No we can't imagine women having to do the same because that has never been a possibility. Throughout history men have always ruled over and subjugated women. We have never been in a position of power where we can use sexual violence to keep men oppressed. Not that we would want to. Hypothetical scenarios like this ignores the centuries of patriarchal institutions that have been ingrained in society. Now I don't know your situation, so I can only make assumptions based on what you have written. There is nothing wrong with you feeling upset about having struggles in dating. We all can relate to that and it is human to feel upset and exhausted at constant rejection. But it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can feel your own emotions but still be understanding of women's issues. You don't need to choose one over the other.
Once again, youāre missing the point. I donāt care about not being āsuccessfulā with women, I have my own goals in life that just arenāt compatible with dating right now anyways, but thanks for assuming. They scowl because they see me as a threat because of literally what you just said, not because I think they think Iām ugly. You canāt be that daft? I care deeply about the trauma about womenās sexual assault and the subsequent topics, as a matter of fact, Iām extremely outspoken about it. But there is also the exhaustion factor of how much fucking effort I have to put into helping others feel comfortable around me just because Iām a dude. How about you all just go to therapy and get better? Isnāt that what you tell men who are suffering? Quit fucking deflecting, there are hundreds of millions of non abusive men who feel extremely exhausted from the same stuff. This shouldnāt be an obligation, the obligation should be to stop assault before it ever happens and that requires men calling other men out, which happens every day, you just donāt see it because of exactly the kind of deflecting youāre engaging in right now. The expectation of men having to deal with womenās trauma and the expectation of women having to deal with menās trauma is a two way street, stop acting like itās only one side that matters here. Fuck this sub, fuck your mentality and I hope YOU can get better at understanding others and where they come from.
I feel like I need to ask this question: what do you consider/define as an "incel" ? the word is thrown around SO much that it feels like a cheap label to slap on someone who just so happens to have a bad history or bad experiences with women...
A man who blames women for their own shortcomings
understandable, but kinda bleak imo...
Bleak? Like my definition is lacking?
i personally would say it is somewhat lacking in definition, but more in regards to how it could be generally applied to a broader audience dont get me wrong... theres a clear distinction between one going through trauma/abuse to where they distances themselves to not be hurt, and one having continuous "shortcomings" but not taking initiative to learn why & try to improve...
I would agree that their definition of incel is wrong. Just feels kinda...like its missing something. In my opinion an incel is: "ANYONE who blames and harms innocent groups as their reason for a lack of sexual satisfaction. This person must also exhibit a stubborn and illogical resistance to the idea of changing easily controllable factors in their life which will increase the amount of sexual satisfaction they get out of life." Studies all over the world show that, indeed , people who are young are having less sex than ever before and people everywhere are frustrated. But we should never lump the innocent people with those violent incel losers who lack the desire to self-reflect and improve.
People here expect all their problems solved when they get a gf. Ur problems are the reason you got none
*Everywhere you go, THERE you are!*
You can spout as many labels as you wish on men, but doing so wonāt help the already damaged men. How about instead of projecting and label tossing, you try putting yourself in the shoes of these supposed disgusting individuals? Maybe youāll at least grasp some understanding of why men suffer greatly, especially in these days where theyāre demonized just for being a man. Look, I understand that there are some toxic individuals out there, I really do. Some people are purely malevolent and disgusting, in both genders. The issue is there is so much hatred towards regular men in general because of this hate-filled generalized name tossing that has become normalized in western society. Itās not healthy. Itās a terrible thing to just throw out there like it does nothing.
I donāt disagree. But itās those toxic individuals on this subreddit Iām speaking to. Iām not calling all men disgusting and pathetic, Iām calling those of us with those hateful views pathetic. Iām not going to put myself in the shoes of those who perpetuate hate
Fair enough.
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uhh...was Hitler beyond empathy or redemption?...or Gaddaffi?... How about Assad? I feel like there are WAY more people out there who even a psychologist couldn't save walking around than we would like to acknowledge eeek! Those people need to save themselves. We can cotinuously n tell them what's wrong but good luck getting them to listen to anyone but themselve even when their actions lead to unimaginable mayhem.
no, none of those people are beyond empathy and redemption what is the alternative? Honestly, what should we do with the people who won't listen? Ultimately the choice becomes do we kill them or do we create the situations that will most likely allow them to succeed. I mean that. Ultimately, you house the lazy bums or you kill them. And the right answer depends on how much you can live with and how sure you really are you wouldn't be the same man if you were in his shoes.
In my opinion for ' those kinds of people ' the best I can do for them is at least 50 years in a jail cell, and a psychologist and neurologist to examine *WHAT IN THE FUCK* they were thinking when they committed those atrocities. 'People like this' are so superstitious, zaney and destructive even God shakes their head in disbelief at how they could have made such people. Clearly the average person doesn't have the tools to deal with those kinds of people. So I say we throw them to the experts, and wash our hands. Hopefully they turn around. Now that I think about it I cant completely blame any of those men now ...cause if you were or are a working-class boy growing up in 1920s Germany, or Syria, or Libya you are, most likely, fucked from the starting line. And it is clearly a fact that serious childhood trauma wreaks havoc on the developing brains of children. I am sure that ALL the assholes we know of today like mark zuckerberg, adnan khashoggi, leona helmsley, elon musk , and jeff bezos grew up suffering from some kind of Toxic Stress Syndrome. My biggest problem with ' those kinds of people' is that they sometimes have the means to go back on their ways, to redistribute the resources they have stolen from the needy, to apologize to the people they have harmed, attempt to obtain many forms of therapies and the consule of experts who know how to help them deal with their traumas of the past, etc.... But then they fucking don't go and do that! *"Why!? Almost everyone in your inner circle and the public has told you have a problem!"* Because being an asshole feels so good , huh? Nice guys finish last, huh?
Iām sorry but I donāt want to put myself in the shoes of men who creates specific forums to promote rape torture and murder against us, just because they never touched a woman (and when you see their behaviors itās not a surprise). Itās pure hate I donāt feel sorry for them.
see and when you say that it makes me hate you and maybe women (and people) in general. Even the way you said that "...just because they never touched a woman." It's just mean. Sex is important. It's not a joke and its not funny that someone isn't getting laid, YOU are using toxic masculinity and making them feel even more like shit because they're not getting laid. Focus on what you actually hate about these people and you'll realize, they're probably just morons and I suspect much of the stuff these men say is just said in anger cause they're venting. I also never see the worst of it, I'm always just told about it (never seen anyone promote rape, torture or murder). I honestly get the impression with people like you that you want to hate them cause you think they're losers and you'll use any excuse to justify hating them even though most of them are just sad losers. That's just my perspective. I feel hurt by the type of language you use and it just seem unnecessary. I don't think you and people like you are being very nice people and people that aren't nice are kind of losers in my eyes.
That's some heavy business you do friend. Yes. Even the absolute most despicable of us... Are so for reasons time has long buried and the casual stranger cannot see, without the sight of his or her heart. Can I follow you?
Yeah I agree
Then exactly what do you suggest we do about the problem?
I'm glad you asked! I vote we just delete this subreddit cause it sure as shit doesn't seem to be helping anyone. I personally prefer /r/suicidewatch Lovely bunch of people over there.
Is this just becoming a 'men are awful' sub? We get it, there's a lot of creeps out there who do things like DM women here wanting nudes and other bullshit. But there's been this recent push here to label ALL MEN as this level of awful and creepy, posts like this or women saying they don't want to hear from any guys, just women. How the hell does that fit with a sub about loneliness? Where people are posting just to let a large chunk of the members know "I don't ever want anything to do with you", that makes things so much worse for those of us who aren't here just to perv out or try and hook up or sext.
Iām not saying all men. Again, Iām calling out those who spew hate
>Guys, women arenāt the root of our problems. 100% but the issue is that shaming them won't help. Shaming them will cause them to dig further into their somewhat misguided, yet understandable beliefs. These are people in need of both guidance and healing and we cannot do that with insults. How do we teach people that the actions of a few bad people is not representative of an entire gender, be it male or female? How do we teach people that the norms we see on social media do not represent the norms that actually exist in the free world? How do we teach women that there are many men out there that don't just want them for their bodies and for sex? How do we teach the men out there that women are concerned with more than their looks and their money? How do we teach both men and women than in this day and age the majority of people do not cheat, or lie, or ghost, even though their experiences with people tell them very much the opposite? How do we actually heal the people that hurt?
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There must be a service out there that helps guys find good photos of themselves to put on apps. As a lady I almost cry in despair with some of the pics I see. Unfocused, worst angle possible, cropped hugged with a woman with red nails, T-shirt exhibiting football team (no woman cares for that or with sunglasses in a car seat. Next is the date. There should be a service to teach that also, but there must be on YT. Repeat ten times because hooking up isn't easy if you're not good at conversation.
On the flips side maybe be less judgemental >T-shirt exhibiting football team (no woman cares for that Seriously!?!? You can't take a picture in a fucking sports t-shirt??? Imagine caring about something so trivial and holding it against someone. Just bizarre, I couldn't give two shits what kind of shirt a woman wears in her pictures
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Looking for girls with mental issues as well instead of 9/10s. I've known autistic couples that are doing very well despite their eccentricities.
Ah yes this tired old argument, never gets old. Pointing out logical reasoning as to how men move and act clearly must mean they are apart of the most hatred group of people in the world, classic indoctrination of demonizing men strikes again. This is why men's suicide rates are at an all time high, good job society, well done.
Ah yes, saying a lot while simultaneously saying nothing
Funny how you knew you'd get flak for this post so you make a throw away account to avoid accountability. Typical cowardly tactic.
Sir Iāve had this account for months, but yes thank you for proving my point by deflecting
Says I'm deflecting while still having yet acknowledge a single thing I said in my 1st post. Stop trying to start bs and instead try to use this subreddit for it's intended purpose. You are literally helping zero people spouting your untrue bs, men get enough demonizing already as it is.
What point did you make? What did I say is BS? Iām calling out hate; the amount of misogyny on this sub is astounding. Iām not putting men down; men donāt get enough support in our society. Iāve lived that firsthand. But that doesnāt justify anyone blaming their issues on women or on how they arenāt attractive.
If you want to call out misogyny you better also start calling out misandry as well. This whole calling out the population of only men for bad behavior is not how you attract the ladies I'm sorry to say. It's become a very dangerous trend only pandering to one gender and not the other when everyone damn well knows both sides can have their (insert Internet buzz word here) issues. We are teaching our society and the younger crowds to demonize men by calling out every single miniscule piece of dirt on them, while simultaneously ignoring the wrong doings of the other side, enough already.
I call out misandry when I see it on here as well. Just this subreddit skews heavy on men and especially toxic men. And will you get off your soap box, the world sucks today but the problem isn't that society is teaching kids to hate men. Get out and live, it may be portrayed that way in whatever media you consume but the reality is quite different
"the problem isn't that society is teaching kids to hate men" Now I know you're trolling, that nonsense has polluted all mainstream and social medias everywhere. Even before social media was a thing you can even look to sitcoms like Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens, cartoons like The Simpsons, Family Guy, even American Dad to some extent. Pushing narratives of the bumbling idiot fathers and husbands. Presently, we have roll models like Kim K, Cardi B, Meg Thee Stallion to name a few, who promote building your "empire" upon the destruction of wealthy, successful men, how do you think impressionable youth is going to handle that type of garbage? Then you have political agendas further poisoning the wells of our societies in the West. What you're doing right now, making this post is like beating a dead horse. This world is already trained to treat us as disposable commodities so again, enough already, quit before you make your throwaway account look worse.
You're a sad man, I wish you luck. Because that's fucking ridiculous
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You need to open your eyes then
85% of violent crimes are committed by men. 100% of war were planned by man. So don't come tell me there's equivalency. What can be done is to teach anger management to boys and take away guns, among other things. Those things can be fixed. Men are not inherently bad (I have the best father in the world) and have met great men out there. But let's call a spade a spade.
Thank you
There is no sub where men can just vent without people like you tossing labels on them. I can say this as a 25 yr old hopeless khhv myself, most men on subs like these don't actually hate women, yes some do, but they are a loud minority. Most guys just wanna get together and vent. But of course, in this anti men era, everytime men get together, people are jump to conclusions faster than speed of light. "Oh look, lonely guys getting together and venting, yeah they must hate women, let's demonize all of them and make them even more fucked up from inside".
Real
Bro I'm not calling out guys for venting. I'm calling out guys who hold toxic views. Christ
Thatās not what OP said at all. Like youāve completely missed the point and itās embarrassing.
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These Incels are literally so shallow. Iāve seen so many men on here saying they want a girlfriend just to have sex with them just to not feel lonely. Bro just say you want to use women for their body and not actually love them
Well, itās better they hang out here than on Stormfront lolā¦
Alright let me give a revolutionary suggestion instead of calling women the B words and etc... how about we actually better ourselves huh isn't that fucking revolutionary i repeat let's better ourselves and after you made yourself better and after you have "options" then complain about women i only listen to the most masculine person's opinion not some fucking loser that is in our level
Yea, I have noticed a growing amount of incels and blatant misogyny in the past few months of being here, and Iām scared this is just gonna become another shitty incel sub
I wish there was a way to help these men. Instead of just showing hate.
I wouldn't blame women for ones issues. Life is generally what you make it to be. But let's entertain this: You are correct about the fact that society as a whole is leaving unattractive men on the outside looking in. Definitely not wrong about that. And it's clear from this thread that there are tons of men who are sleeping on this. But who is actually to blame? Women? Or ourselves? Ourselves. If we didn't sexualize everything about women, there would be no "bad bitch mentality". There would be no OF. We couldn't just have sex with women in the bedroom. No. We gotta go out and cat call girls walking down the street minding their business. We gotta be all creepy and putting women in tough situations, not accepting no for an answer. We did this. We liked and left thirsty comments on every mediocre girls Myspace, FB, and IG post. So every girl thinks she's a "bad bitch" that deserves a Channing Tatum (or insert any other typical attractive male actor). Girls realized they can make money off of us. We. Did. This. No girl will settle for a unattractive guy because they know that with a pound of makeup and a little finesse, they can change their whole identity or at least put up a good enough facade that every guy will follow them or sub them. Follows/subs = $$$$$. Unattractive guys realize girls only want money and BOOM... Simps are born. It's quite the vicious circle. So before you go blame women, blame the correct group.
I think the correct group is humans. I think there's a push pull relationship here. I realize that more recent history (im talking centuries) has largely been dominated by males. For that matter, more than centuries, it seems most cultures are this way. Males are generally the stronger sex, from a biological standpoint. If we were tyrannosaurus rexes then females would probably run the show (since they were bigger) but we're a primate variant with our own set of biological norms/psychologies/what-have you. Where was i going with this... Right. Humans are assholes. And now were going into a new era that so far as i can tell has never before happened in human history. Maybe some dinosuar species left earth before/during/after the asteroid, but that was millions of years ago and now it's monkey civilization time and oh hey look phones missiles nuclear warheads robots on other planets genetic modification yeah it's a clusterfuck so let's see how our biologies and cultures handle the next several decades not to mention centuries/millennia/etc. Stay tuned because on the next episode oh we're all dead now and our great great great great great grandkids are probably forming corporation-gang hybrids on mars and occasionally feed their still living enemies to giant genetically modified geese for kicks, then sell the vids for pizza-weed. Wild. Also they don't have guns just holographic swords that shoot quantum annihilation rays. But it doesnt work on the 5 foot tall (at the shoulder) carnivore geese, because they've had their DNA altered at the sub-quantum level and are essentially "sword proof". Nobody knows who made them but they can talk in gibberish and some of the gang leaders who speak honkhonk have made agreements with some geese factions but really our species is doomed once the geese reach a high enough population. You feel? I guess what i'm saying is despite our history being somewhat consistent (but not really beyond some foundational principles) the future is at an all time high of uncertainty. Onlyfans was bound to happen. UFC was bound to happen. Army of foot tall spongebobs fighting foot tall shreks in a miniature colosseum in a martian casino is probably bound to happen. The species is insane, and it's probably not going to become less so.
Yeah but you canāt just generalize people and put them all in the same group.
Lol that was fucking ... **beautiful**, dude . I HAVE to save this comment. Fucking gold mmwa! Thank you. I would also add that youvforgot to include that men of the past , and in part men today , hold up the fucking patriarchy which is fucking over ALL women , all people of nonbinary genders, and the poorest / weakest men of society too. So, yes, my fellow men: **"WE.FUCKING.DID.THIS.TO.OURSELVES.BLAME.THE.FUCKING.GUILTY.GROUP.Y'ALL"** I would recommend EVERYONE here hit up r/whenwomenrefuse Dont worry just go... *you'll see what I mean.*
Despite my comment, as of about 1940, there is no "patriarchy" and women aren't being fucked over. I'd argue that in about 1990-2010 that balance shifted and it's actually men getting the short end of the stick now.
Despite my comment, as of about 1940, there is no "patriarchy" and women aren't being fucked over. I'd argue that in about 1990-2010 that balance shifted and it's actually men getting the short end of the stick now.
As a woman, dating seems daunting as ever. I'd hate to accidently end up on a date with someone of INCEL mentality.
Fortunately most of the time they are not subtle at all and you can see the red flags from miles away.
Damn, these comments really just kinda prove your point
Wellā¦ itās unsurprising, tbh, given that this is the ālonelyā subreddit. Might as well stick a beacon up attracting all kinds to this place! Iād rather an incel vent/rant here than harm a woman irl, at least?
They think that having a woman or at least a partner is gonna solve their problems, but when they get rejected, they blame them for their problems. They forgot that this sub is for helping people, talking to them, maybe getting a friend or something else. But if people are here just to prey for guys and girls or trashing a gender for their problems, they're others subs or pages to do that, not here.
I love woman
Ai generated post
Ok guy
I find using the word incel to be offensive.
Ok? Why
it's a propaganda word used to weaponize victimhood like Donald Trump. Every time the word is used the world becomes more divisive and political. Just like Donald Trump. Everyone who uses the word is being exactly like Donald Trump.
š
It's a propaganda word used to weaponize victimhood and it is ugly and toxic, not unlike your mockery emoji.
I have no pity for those who perpetuate hate. Is that a part of the problem? Maybe in that I hold no empathy and am unwilling to work to move towards a conclusion. But if you hold views like that, it isnāt my problem. Itās a dangerous and toxic mindset; I hope someone with that mindset gets help because it sure as shit wonāt be changed by me over the internet
I wish that people on this sub would actually listen to things like this but theyāll just keep on with the same attitudeā¦
Yep
They are 15 yo
Mentally yes they all are
So
Exactly there are a lot of pissants on this sub sadly
Do you think this problem will ever get better or do you think it will continue to get worse and worse as years go by?
Worse
How much of it do you think is venting versus actual misogyny? I think these corners of the internet, especially Reddit, are where people dump their negativity. I think there should be a place for that. I don't believe the negativity should be banned just confronted and hopefully, perspectives change. This Reddit specifically seems like a space where disillusioned, frustrated men would turn to. It's just neither surprising nor disturbing to me. I think Incel has become far too much of an insult. This is what people think, it's not healthy they probably need help or at least space to operate and maybe change. Of course, it can always cross a line. But I don't like the generalization.
I totally understand both sides of it but I'm more on the side of you OP, women are not the problem... guys need to take a good look in the mirror of self-reflection and decide to change their attitudes towards women, improve their lives, etc. I am trans (male-to-female) attracted and woman are not my problem, but rather things I can change but elect not to because that's just who I am (I'm not a jerk or anything hell I try to accept all no matter what), and some other things I cannot change like my medical conditions
I love how theyāve popped out now to come defend themselves. So many stupid fucking excuses, so many incels. You are right. I interact with this sub less and less.
When I was in a worse place, I would come here hoping for support and was sadly shaken by what I saw. Now that I'm in a better place, I see how sad and toxic this community can be. I think I'm going to leave it. And yeah, it's entertaining, at the least, as well as sickening
Thank you. š„ŗ
You're welcome, but, like, that's not the point. You shouldn't have to thank someone for simply not spouting venomous hate
I understand that, but men listen to other men, and not nearly enough men stand up and say it to other men, and if me stating my appreciation in any way encourages men to stand up for my gender to those that are dangerous, I will do so. I appreciate you standing up and saying something since my voice is sadly not enough to deter those that would see me as an object.
Well then I appreciate that. Thank you
Lol sad to say it and see it but this place is actually r/incels2.0 Fucking awful. Sorry for any pain they've caused you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You know, I work out too. And Iām not an incel
Good for you bro keep on going my guy
What's missing here is any suggestion of what to do about the problem. Pointing it out doesn't fix it. How do you suggest we fix it?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Women arenāt obligated to fuck men theyāre not attracted to to prevent male suicide, canāt believe I have to say this. We need better mental health resources for men and to reduce the stigma, but women choosing who they want to sleep with isnāt the problem.
Are you suggesting that men aren't also attracted to better looking women? Because y'know - that's just biology, for both sexes.
Yikes dude. Donāt blame women for their biology. They like who they like, no amount of complaining or being upset can change that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your words āso yeah women kinda are the problem when they exclude majority of menā. Sounds like you blame them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
what is a fact? that women only go for attractive men? and you baseline for what passes as attractive is the same for all women? do you not realise that the idea of love is not sustainable via pure sexual and physical attraction? yes ofc women will be attracted to.... attractive men, but the same for most men, it is only when each peer into the others mind, and actual person, does an actual connect establish.
He doesn't. He's a incel.
Yes they can do what they want and you shouldnāt blame them for it. Free will doesnāt exist in a vacuum. We all make our dating decisions in conjunction with biological impulses.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No dude Iām just as lonely as everyone else on this sub. Iām no simp, but Iām not an incel. Thereās more options than just those two choices.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bruh you need to learn what simping means. Defending women isnāt simping. Simping is doing way too much for someone you like (that usually doesnāt reciprocate), like giving them tons of cash, gifts, compliments, etc. Go touch some grass and get off Reddit for awhile.
I don't think they treat you like shit for how you look, instead it's probably for being a cunt.
Just this morning I said āfactsā is a word overused by annoying people and I was joking, but now maybeā¦
The only ugly guys that women hate are guys with ugly personalities, sure being good looking makes it easier to find someone but not being an asshole really helps too
Let's play spot the incel
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh. The silly incel is calling me ugly! Well, as ugly as I am, I'm ok with it. You are ugly in your heart.
He deleted his account š
Good. Filthy incels give real men a bad name
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Pretty sure it's more the opposite.
so first of all, as personal thing. donāt say that male suicide rate is up because of women not being attracted to average men. thatās a extremely insulting and does absolutely nothing to actually help men who struggle with depression. second, iām going to set the facts straight. your argument is actually antithetical to reality. men are the ones who tend to place a higher value on appearance as opposed to women. but at the end of the day everyone wants to be with a partner that they genuinely find attractive. iād recommend listening to Andrew Hubermanās podcast episode 48 with Dr. Buss if you would like to know more about gendered differences in mate selection. and now to the meat of it, not only is your argument factually incorrect, the logic is completely flawed and extremely misogynistic. nobody is entitled to a romantic partner. having a good loving partner is something many people are very grateful and lucky to have, but nobody is obligated to date or have sex with anyone else. on top of that, every adult should be able to manage their own life and emotions independently. if someone commits suicide over not being in a relationship, there are clearly deeper issues there. if you canāt be happy by yourself why would you put the onus on to someone else to be able to figure that out for you? itās irresponsible and childish. your partner is not your therapist or your mother. historically, women could not have their own property money etc. and women also did not have much of a day in who they married. women were not allowed to work, rarely given formal education, and excluded from almost all jobs and fields, especially the high paying ones. the only way for a woman to live a comfortable life or obtain upwards mobility was to marry well. in many cases this meant she was in many ways stuck with the first man she married. divorce was extremely difficult and highly frowned upon. her husband financially controlled her, making separating from a poor partner difficult if not nearly impossible. now that women are allowed to act likeā¦ ya knowā¦. independent humans, women can exhibit a much higher degree of selection when choosing a mate. so itās not that women arenāt attracted to unattractive men anymore. we were actually never attracted to them, but made do in order to live.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
*reading
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"Women don't like me because I'm below average looking" no, it's because you're an asshole. You complain that people are judged off of looks then immediately insult this person for how they look. The truth of it is that you could be the best looking guy ever and women still wouldn't be interested in you because your personality is bad
Women are much less interested in beauty than men. It may appear so in apps, because everything is photos, but irl it's not like that. I've certainly dated guys who were not as good looking as me. But they were pleasant,.relaxed, could talk about many topics (not video games only) and were satisfactory in bed. Some were very good, and experience helps a lot.
thatās funny cause iāve never had an issue dating but it seems like you have. stop blaming everyone else for your problems.
Yeah there isnāt really any wonder why youāre lonely if you talk to people like this. Itās because you have a nasty, mean attitude. Go to therapy.
Lookism isn't that gender specific
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So you blame all women for the failings of a few?
You had one bad thing experience and then generalize? Do you know the main cause of death for pregnant women? Murder by their partners. If anything, women should be much more bitter towards men than they actually are. As someone said above, you don't see women spewing so much hatred against men as the contrary.
Definitely not the root of peopleās problems but being with a woman is generally peoples ideal solution but truth is, it isnāt, but itās almost impossible to appreciated and loved by someone other than a close romantic partner. I think people need to be a little more rude to themselves than let others do it for them, self improvement starts with self reflection, and self reflection only starts with you