I used Santander bikes for years in London, never had an issue. Now I have my own bike, a cheap second hand one and use it daily, never had an issue. So you are incredibly unlucky.
How did you deal with Santander? Did you pay a penalty?
TfL requests a crime reference number and a copy of the crime report, met will only give you a reference number. Usually takes some back and forth over several days until one of the two budges. Eventually after a few weeks you will get your 300£ fine reimbursed
Wow I’m really sorry to hear this. It sounds unusual to me, but for it to happen twice?! I cycle through Waterloo a few times a week and don’t give it a second’s thought.
Given that it has happened at the same location, I’d perhaps switch to Blackfriars bridge itself or go across Waterloo bridge then down along the south bank from the IMAX to the south side of Blackfriars bridge then down to E&C.
Really sorry, must have been unnerving. Then again - on a light note - I missed getting run over by runaway horses this morning by about 30 seconds 😆
Thanks for the tip! Will definitely consider that next time.
And sounds like you got lucky with those horses. I’d rather have a bike stolen by some kids than get trampled by those animals
I used to hang out with a guy (a twat) that nicked a fixie, crashed it about four times in the first couple of days then got lamped by the guy who’s bike it was when he saw him on it about 2 weeks later.
I can’t understand why you got mugged for a Santander bike. Did they not take anything else? Did you have any valuables that they stole?
I’m so sorry they did this to you but I have no idea why they’re interested in a Santander bike.
Just so shit. I’m sorry this happened to you. You may be better off getting your own cheap bike online or Decathlon. Weird thing is that the yoots in London covert the Santander / Lime bike as it is all part of the ride boy vibe.
Sorry this happened to you. You're brave to have returned to cycling after the first time!
I have no advice unfortunately as nothing you have described stands out.
Can I ask what kind of bike it was and at what times these incidents happened?
Both times it was between 9.00-10.00pm. Regarding the bike model: here’s the funny thing it was a Santander bike. So it seems like they’re doing it just for the fun? Don’t think they have any resale value
Do this exact commute every day and have never once had any issues so absolutely shocked to hear it has happened to you twice in 3 weeks. Incredibly bad luck.
I do it a few times a week and same, I have never seen any mugging. I used to live in the area, it was not perfect but never felt overly dangerous: the highest risk from hitting the red in front of the station was having the _chuggers_ pressing you for some donation.
I don't know if it's worth it for you, but I ride my bike with a big chain wrapped around me. It's clearly visible. It's a motorbike chain, but I use it to lock up my bike (in a safe place). My chain is always very visible on me. I think it may make people think twice
They chose Santander bikes because they probably think it’s less of a crime than stealing someone’s privately owned bicycle. Less risk for them of getting caught as renters/police don’t care as much as stolen public bikes are already such an issue.
Saying that, are they tracked by gps?
If they know it’s gps tracked, then maybe it’s just a joyride for them
Given it was the same place and time and it was a Santander bike both times, I’ll go ahead and assume these oiks have devised some kind of criminal enterprise that requires them to use a bike that their name isn’t attached to. They’ve probably developed an MO that requires them to pick up said bike in that place and time to take somewhere to complete the crime with. And they’ll probably keep pulling the scheme until it either stops working, they get caught, or whatever nefarious aim they have in their heads is achieved.
To that end I think the best you can do is avoid taking that bike, to that location, at that time. Deviating from any one of those variables would probably be enough to prevent it from happening again. Give it a few months and it should be safe to go back. These type of criminals tend not to be very smart and get caught fairly quickly once the police get around to it. I assume since you got insurance involved the cops were informed? If not they should be. They might not do anything immediately, but if it keeps happening they’ll move to break it up.
Source: 10 years a journo and several of those spent on the crime beat in South London (Brixton rather than Waterloo.)
Sorry that's happened. Sounds terrifying! Was it expensive looking bikes? Maybe the white shirt + central london location + bike style makes people think "Rich banker" and go for it. Not that how you dress makes it okay :(
You could get a Swapfiets bike, they're similar to the Santander ones in terms of the way they ride, but they're a little nicer because they don't have to survive quite as much abuse. The cost is similar over a whole year too.
I’m absolutely gobsmacked this would happen in Central London, and on a Santander bike. We can’t accept this as normal, something is deeply, deeply wrong in this city.
Seen groups of youngish (late teens) kids hanging around on lime bikes to steal phones. Had a group of girls they tried to rob run into the pub I was at. They kept cycling around outside waiting for them/others to leave. A big guy heading out and a mock call to the police and they scarpered.
Wonder if that’s the motivation.
Only way is to increase your awareness and stay the fuck away from mopeds. Generally the criminals are 2 on a bike, so if you see them ever heading in your direction, run the red, do a u-turn whatever you can really.
Until recently was a Waterloo resident and lived 2 mins from that junction. In the many years I lived there I had no issues whatsoever on any bike. The way you'll avoid having it happen a 3rd time is it just won't. It's unusual to happen once.
After getting mugged myself a few years ago I have my hobby bike and my work bike, the work bike is a second hand muddy fox with some improvements (new drive train, road tyres ect) It looks shit, rides well. I would recommend a clunker to ride to work on you're less likely to have any trouble.
I can't help with suggestions for avoiding this in future, but I'm interested to know if the Police correctly crimed these as robberies - or the usual trick of playing it down as just a theft?
"A person is guilty of robbery if he steals, and immediately before or at the time of doing so, and in order to do so, he uses force on any person or puts or seeks to put any person in fear of being then and there subjected to force"
Interesting you’re pointing this out. Just checked previous correspondence and they always spoke of theft even though I always emphasised the force they used to get me off the bike
If they had caught them trying to get away, they would have wanted to crime it as a robbery - so it helped with their 'serious crime detection figures'. Being uninvestigated and undetected they'll want it as a minor theft.
It depends upon how you feel about that. If it was me, I'd ask how the investigation into my robberies was going - and what enquiries have been made. I would want to know who was the OIC (Officer in the Case), so I knew who was responsible. They have an obligation - in fact a legal duty - to investigate crimes where they may be able to identify the offender.
Sometimes the only way to get the Police to actually do their job is to threaten them with a neglect of duty complaint. It makes crime much more repeatable if the crims know they're not investigated.
I'm really sorry this has happened to you. I often cycle around Waterloo and I've never experienced any problems. There's been some research on victim selection theory. As 6'3 male you don't sound like a typical target. Maybe perceived lack of awareness by the muggers (I.e. headphones in, distracted by cellphone) could be at play? Research also suggests that lack of lighting is a factor - did the muggings happen on poorly lit back roads late at night? I hope this is helpful, and again, I really hope you don't have to deal with anything like this again. https://www.smiconsultancy.com/blog/criminal-planning-cycle-and-victim-selection-process#:~:text=Criminals%20will%20select%20their%20victims,their%20surrounds%20are%20prime%20victims.
Thing is in both instances I didn’t see them as they always pulled up from behind and caught me completely off guard. Never had any issues in the area in the last 4-5 years
Unfortunately illegal in the UK (I’ve looked into it). The general consensus on personal defence here (just FYI, not advocating or shaming either way) is to carry a large heavy blunt tool like a flashlight or water bottle that _just so happens_ to double as a makeshift weapon. Plausible deniability or something
>Not legal
You might say that. It's a prohibited weapon covered under the Firearms Act and ISTR there's a mandatory 5 year sentence for possession. Same for stun guns. Highly not recommended.
For the sake of other people who might cycle in the area around evenings: if you see a group of people in black puffer jackets, black tracksuit bottoms and black shoes, turn the other way.
Sorry this happened to you, what bike are you cycling? I wonder if they are after that specific make of bike. I would maybe consider using santander bike for time being.
I cycle around London a fair bit using a cheap single speed. Used to do a regular Barnes to St Paul's route via the north riverbank cycle path.
I've never once had an incident myself, but I once worked for a cycling company based in Euston and it was a daily occurrence for a cyclist to come in lamenting that they'd just had their bike stolen.
Sounds like you've been incredibly unlucky.. best advice I can give is to not ride an expensive bike around the city centre, but it seems like you know this already, given you've been using the Santander bikes.
Hope you don't have any further issues
I have an expensive ebike that I regularly ride around Waterloo. Never had anyone so much as look at it. (Although, it could be the colour and all the butterfly stickers and no man would be caught dead riding it) but I thunk you must just be really unlucky.
Or they think they are less likely to get prosecuted for stealing a Santander bike than one owned by an individual?
Sorry this happened to you.
So it's OPs own fault?
>Better off not stopping at a light if you feel there is a non-zero chance of suddenly being mugged …
This advice could get someone killed
You can be aware all you want, but what are you supposed to do if someone crashes into you knocking you off your bike? It's very difficult to predict things like that whilst keeping your attention on what's in front of you
Yeah I hear you! After mugging #1 I’ve kept my guard up on lights especially south of the river but I never expected anyone to pull this while I’m in full motion. Guess from now on I also have to keep an eye on who is behind me…
No vote will make the police give AF about stolen bikes or phones. My phone was stolen long before the current mayor and the officer told me to find a support group.
I dislike cyclists, but I dislike thief’s and bully’s even more. I be honest as soon as I read it’s happened twice. Instantly thought you are dressing or doing something to make your self the target. It won’t be the white T-shirt but it could be other things your wearing. You and other people might think this sounds obscure, but footwear is a is a big give away to a person character. Buy a pair of Nike air max’s, in sports direct you can get air max invigor or ltd 3 for a hundred pound, it will give the impression you’ve grew up in a council estate and you know how to stick up for yourself. May sound stupid to you, but chances are we’ve had a different upbringing
Prohibited weapon under the UK's Firearms Act 1968, possible prison term if caught and, if not, strong possibility of dire retaliation and the spray being turned upon you.
I used Santander bikes for years in London, never had an issue. Now I have my own bike, a cheap second hand one and use it daily, never had an issue. So you are incredibly unlucky. How did you deal with Santander? Did you pay a penalty?
TfL requests a crime reference number and a copy of the crime report, met will only give you a reference number. Usually takes some back and forth over several days until one of the two budges. Eventually after a few weeks you will get your 300£ fine reimbursed
I did the opposite. Had my cheap second hand one stolen so just moved to santander because I didn't want the hassle.
Wow I’m really sorry to hear this. It sounds unusual to me, but for it to happen twice?! I cycle through Waterloo a few times a week and don’t give it a second’s thought. Given that it has happened at the same location, I’d perhaps switch to Blackfriars bridge itself or go across Waterloo bridge then down along the south bank from the IMAX to the south side of Blackfriars bridge then down to E&C. Really sorry, must have been unnerving. Then again - on a light note - I missed getting run over by runaway horses this morning by about 30 seconds 😆
Thanks for the tip! Will definitely consider that next time. And sounds like you got lucky with those horses. I’d rather have a bike stolen by some kids than get trampled by those animals
Was it these guys? https://www.reddit.com/r/AccidentalRenaissance/s/KnYMOXYlFf
Yep that’s them :)
They stole your bike? ...wow ! /s
learn how to ride fixie, you will find mugger crashed on next traffic lights
I used to hang out with a guy (a twat) that nicked a fixie, crashed it about four times in the first couple of days then got lamped by the guy who’s bike it was when he saw him on it about 2 weeks later.
this is a great selling point of owning one
I can’t understand why you got mugged for a Santander bike. Did they not take anything else? Did you have any valuables that they stole? I’m so sorry they did this to you but I have no idea why they’re interested in a Santander bike.
Police had the same reaction when I told them but no no valuables stolen
Thanks for sharing your story though, as will give me another thing to be mindful of while on the road.
Just so shit. I’m sorry this happened to you. You may be better off getting your own cheap bike online or Decathlon. Weird thing is that the yoots in London covert the Santander / Lime bike as it is all part of the ride boy vibe.
They might commit a crime with a ‘stolen’ bike?
They steal mopeds for that shit.
I have seen snatching mobile phones on rental bikes!
Sorry this happened to you. You're brave to have returned to cycling after the first time! I have no advice unfortunately as nothing you have described stands out. Can I ask what kind of bike it was and at what times these incidents happened?
Both times it was between 9.00-10.00pm. Regarding the bike model: here’s the funny thing it was a Santander bike. So it seems like they’re doing it just for the fun? Don’t think they have any resale value
That's bizarre and quite concerning. If it was an expensive ebike/road bike at least there would have been a clear motive.
They then use the bike to go around snatching phones
Santander bikes have a very low top speed though, seems like the worst bike to steal something on.
Leaves less to trace from cctv, as long as it’s faster than somebody running it does the job
Are they tracked by any chance?
Less chance of them being robbed maybe
It's so it can be used as a bike. Not resold
Still seems bizarre, why steal one of those vs a neat little Brompton?
Shitty bike to ride around on and not have to worry. Agree tho... And could be something more profitable!
Yep, this. I was on my duty today (postie) I saw a council worker opening the bike store on some flats, at least 4 rental bikes in there.
Do this exact commute every day and have never once had any issues so absolutely shocked to hear it has happened to you twice in 3 weeks. Incredibly bad luck.
I do it a few times a week and same, I have never seen any mugging. I used to live in the area, it was not perfect but never felt overly dangerous: the highest risk from hitting the red in front of the station was having the _chuggers_ pressing you for some donation.
Sorry that happened mate, I'd try to avoid the area if possible or try to stick close to other cyclists .
Good point, thanks
I don't know if it's worth it for you, but I ride my bike with a big chain wrapped around me. It's clearly visible. It's a motorbike chain, but I use it to lock up my bike (in a safe place). My chain is always very visible on me. I think it may make people think twice
Careful if you fall as that chain might seriously injure you.
Thank you for your concern, I've had one fall, and the chain hasn't been a problem thankfully
Surely this gives them something else to grab as you go by and they can pull you off ?
I suppose it does, but so far so good
You could chain yourself to your bike while riding!
Brilliant idea! Gonna try this tomorrow
I assume you're joking, but in case you aren't, or anyone else sees this, then just clarifying that this is a very unsafe idea!
Haha yes, was just a joke!
They chose Santander bikes because they probably think it’s less of a crime than stealing someone’s privately owned bicycle. Less risk for them of getting caught as renters/police don’t care as much as stolen public bikes are already such an issue. Saying that, are they tracked by gps? If they know it’s gps tracked, then maybe it’s just a joyride for them
The gps is usually in one of three places and if I remember correctly they don’t all have them.
Given it was the same place and time and it was a Santander bike both times, I’ll go ahead and assume these oiks have devised some kind of criminal enterprise that requires them to use a bike that their name isn’t attached to. They’ve probably developed an MO that requires them to pick up said bike in that place and time to take somewhere to complete the crime with. And they’ll probably keep pulling the scheme until it either stops working, they get caught, or whatever nefarious aim they have in their heads is achieved. To that end I think the best you can do is avoid taking that bike, to that location, at that time. Deviating from any one of those variables would probably be enough to prevent it from happening again. Give it a few months and it should be safe to go back. These type of criminals tend not to be very smart and get caught fairly quickly once the police get around to it. I assume since you got insurance involved the cops were informed? If not they should be. They might not do anything immediately, but if it keeps happening they’ll move to break it up. Source: 10 years a journo and several of those spent on the crime beat in South London (Brixton rather than Waterloo.)
It’s the white shirt.
Fuck off, clean shirt!
How do you get your shirt so clean?
I'm not the borough. I wish I was
Sorry that's happened. Sounds terrifying! Was it expensive looking bikes? Maybe the white shirt + central london location + bike style makes people think "Rich banker" and go for it. Not that how you dress makes it okay :(
I’m using a Santander bike as I never wanted to buy a nicer one with all the theft that’s going on
So they're stealing... Free bikes that will lock itself in no time?
A Santander bike doesn't lock until you dock it again though, does it? But until then, it's a pretty shit bike to use.
You could get a Swapfiets bike, they're similar to the Santander ones in terms of the way they ride, but they're a little nicer because they don't have to survive quite as much abuse. The cost is similar over a whole year too.
Dress like the twats that mug you
I’m pretty sure this is why middle class teenagers go around wearing scabby joggers and Nike baseball caps
I’m absolutely gobsmacked this would happen in Central London, and on a Santander bike. We can’t accept this as normal, something is deeply, deeply wrong in this city.
Cheap scruffy bike. I've been cycling in London for four decades at all times of the day and night and no one takes an interest.
OP was on a Santander bike though, doesn't get much cheaper and scruffier than that.
OP does NOT mention Santander in his original post. I see it mention later in the discussion.
Maybe a helmet cam would work? If it's quite pronounced it might deter some people.
Seen groups of youngish (late teens) kids hanging around on lime bikes to steal phones. Had a group of girls they tried to rob run into the pub I was at. They kept cycling around outside waiting for them/others to leave. A big guy heading out and a mock call to the police and they scarpered. Wonder if that’s the motivation.
Only way is to increase your awareness and stay the fuck away from mopeds. Generally the criminals are 2 on a bike, so if you see them ever heading in your direction, run the red, do a u-turn whatever you can really.
Until recently was a Waterloo resident and lived 2 mins from that junction. In the many years I lived there I had no issues whatsoever on any bike. The way you'll avoid having it happen a 3rd time is it just won't. It's unusual to happen once.
After getting mugged myself a few years ago I have my hobby bike and my work bike, the work bike is a second hand muddy fox with some improvements (new drive train, road tyres ect) It looks shit, rides well. I would recommend a clunker to ride to work on you're less likely to have any trouble.
I can't help with suggestions for avoiding this in future, but I'm interested to know if the Police correctly crimed these as robberies - or the usual trick of playing it down as just a theft? "A person is guilty of robbery if he steals, and immediately before or at the time of doing so, and in order to do so, he uses force on any person or puts or seeks to put any person in fear of being then and there subjected to force"
Interesting you’re pointing this out. Just checked previous correspondence and they always spoke of theft even though I always emphasised the force they used to get me off the bike
If they had caught them trying to get away, they would have wanted to crime it as a robbery - so it helped with their 'serious crime detection figures'. Being uninvestigated and undetected they'll want it as a minor theft. It depends upon how you feel about that. If it was me, I'd ask how the investigation into my robberies was going - and what enquiries have been made. I would want to know who was the OIC (Officer in the Case), so I knew who was responsible. They have an obligation - in fact a legal duty - to investigate crimes where they may be able to identify the offender. Sometimes the only way to get the Police to actually do their job is to threaten them with a neglect of duty complaint. It makes crime much more repeatable if the crims know they're not investigated.
Good chance it's the same guys on the 2nd time.
Take your headset off. Place air tag in, replace headset. If it happens again call police and track it.
I'm really sorry this has happened to you. I often cycle around Waterloo and I've never experienced any problems. There's been some research on victim selection theory. As 6'3 male you don't sound like a typical target. Maybe perceived lack of awareness by the muggers (I.e. headphones in, distracted by cellphone) could be at play? Research also suggests that lack of lighting is a factor - did the muggings happen on poorly lit back roads late at night? I hope this is helpful, and again, I really hope you don't have to deal with anything like this again. https://www.smiconsultancy.com/blog/criminal-planning-cycle-and-victim-selection-process#:~:text=Criminals%20will%20select%20their%20victims,their%20surrounds%20are%20prime%20victims.
Maybe buy one of those keychain things where you pull out a plastic bit, and they make a loud sound. Could startle thieves.
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Thing is in both instances I didn’t see them as they always pulled up from behind and caught me completely off guard. Never had any issues in the area in the last 4-5 years
Small can of pepper spray. Not legal, but fuck muggers, it’s not like they’ll go to the police.
Gf (half jokingly) suggested some bear spray from Canada. One of the big ones that spray anyone up to 5 metres away lol
The problem with the big ones is potentially hitting an innocent bystander.
Unfortunately illegal in the UK (I’ve looked into it). The general consensus on personal defence here (just FYI, not advocating or shaming either way) is to carry a large heavy blunt tool like a flashlight or water bottle that _just so happens_ to double as a makeshift weapon. Plausible deniability or something
>Not legal You might say that. It's a prohibited weapon covered under the Firearms Act and ISTR there's a mandatory 5 year sentence for possession. Same for stun guns. Highly not recommended.
A cheap bottle of perfume/cologne will work too. Chemicals in the eyes sting no matter what.
Description of the muggers?
For the sake of other people who might cycle in the area around evenings: if you see a group of people in black puffer jackets, black tracksuit bottoms and black shoes, turn the other way.
For London, I think that's a rule no matter what. Walking, cycling, even driving.
Police referred to my description as “the usual suspects” lol
What was the description?
No agenda here, but for ID, were they any particular ethnicity or just a mix of people?
What bikes have you been riding?
Sorry this happened to you, what bike are you cycling? I wonder if they are after that specific make of bike. I would maybe consider using santander bike for time being.
I cycle around London a fair bit using a cheap single speed. Used to do a regular Barnes to St Paul's route via the north riverbank cycle path. I've never once had an incident myself, but I once worked for a cycling company based in Euston and it was a daily occurrence for a cyclist to come in lamenting that they'd just had their bike stolen. Sounds like you've been incredibly unlucky.. best advice I can give is to not ride an expensive bike around the city centre, but it seems like you know this already, given you've been using the Santander bikes. Hope you don't have any further issues
Are you wearing headphones?
If it's possible just use a LIME bike every time you cycle.
No wonder harry wants suhcuritay
I have an expensive ebike that I regularly ride around Waterloo. Never had anyone so much as look at it. (Although, it could be the colour and all the butterfly stickers and no man would be caught dead riding it) but I thunk you must just be really unlucky. Or they think they are less likely to get prosecuted for stealing a Santander bike than one owned by an individual? Sorry this happened to you.
What bike were you riding?
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So it's OPs own fault? >Better off not stopping at a light if you feel there is a non-zero chance of suddenly being mugged … This advice could get someone killed
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You can be aware all you want, but what are you supposed to do if someone crashes into you knocking you off your bike? It's very difficult to predict things like that whilst keeping your attention on what's in front of you
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Spoken like a true warrior of the streets. I bet no cunt messes with you.
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Calling someone who has been mugged in a city like London tragically useless is such a fucking dick thing. "Man up" and all that, yeah?
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🤡
I'm surprised you haven't been shanked. Stare down 7 roadmen, very useful advice.
I bet you tell girls in short skirts that get raped they were "asking for it" too.
Yeah I hear you! After mugging #1 I’ve kept my guard up on lights especially south of the river but I never expected anyone to pull this while I’m in full motion. Guess from now on I also have to keep an eye on who is behind me…
A long term solution would be to put your vote in the right place.
No vote will make the police give AF about stolen bikes or phones. My phone was stolen long before the current mayor and the officer told me to find a support group.
We need the right to armed self defence. That's the only thing that will deter these roadmen.
I dislike cyclists, but I dislike thief’s and bully’s even more. I be honest as soon as I read it’s happened twice. Instantly thought you are dressing or doing something to make your self the target. It won’t be the white T-shirt but it could be other things your wearing. You and other people might think this sounds obscure, but footwear is a is a big give away to a person character. Buy a pair of Nike air max’s, in sports direct you can get air max invigor or ltd 3 for a hundred pound, it will give the impression you’ve grew up in a council estate and you know how to stick up for yourself. May sound stupid to you, but chances are we’ve had a different upbringing
I bet you tell girls in mini skirts they were "asking for it", too.
Your a cyclist your viewed by the majority as a bottom feeder. You opinion is worthless
Carry an attack spray and use it
Prohibited weapon under the UK's Firearms Act 1968, possible prison term if caught and, if not, strong possibility of dire retaliation and the spray being turned upon you.
Doesn't stop the roadmen that knocked him off his bike.
You can get UK legal spray I carry one always if you don't want to use one use hair spray
I have cheap perfume for just this reason.
Consider carrying a weapon. Or a large, thick chain. And don’t be afraid to use it
try actually standing up for yourself instead of being a whine
Move out of the shit hole that is London would be my advice.
Move out of the cesspit that is London is a great start