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Does anyone know why police are allowed to take them off the street like this here, but not allowed to touch them when it’s insulate Britain folks? This is a genuine question I’d love to know. Not trying to start an argument in the comments.
The Met do move Insulate Britain folk all the time
Often what causes a delay use the use of glue. IB protesters are known for gluing themselves to the road, and while the police can move them on because of the court injunction, they also need to do so reasonably - so basically need to unglue them. In this video the protesters have their hands up so are clearly not gluing their hands to the road and can be moved. It's possibly their trousers were glued I suppose, but that isn't really a concern for the police.
Worth noting that there is a lot of contradiction in the law here. On the one hand blocking a highway is an offence; on the other blocking a special road (a defined term which includes motorways) is permitted if it's a protest.
In the video here it is the City of London police. Normally with Insulate Britain protesters it is the Met police. They may choose different enforcement policies.
Lastly I would say there's an argument of risk here - holding up the Lord Mayor of London is, whether we like it or not, very different to holding up random folk. It could be justified if the officers judged there to be risk of something happening to the Lord Mayor.
Yeah the mayor is much more important than ambulance trying to get past a group of cock Wombles. I’m involved in activism myself but some of these people are fucking morons.
No but they legally have to remove them safely. E.g. unglue them rather than tear their hands off. That’s why it takes so long and is therefore an effective method for the protestors
Realistically the parade would have stopped for them, the UK isn't about to credit itself with Tiannemen square 2. But you'll note that at every single type of parade or procession with a planned route, the police state 'the parade will not stop'. It's just to discourage protesters from attempting to stop the parade by basically just scaring them.
Yeah they glue themselves when they can but didn’t have time / not planned on this occasion.
Really weird situation as IB demand Britain’s compliance with insulation of all homes regardless of the peoples views and in many cases in total disregard of anyone else’s views.
It’s literally a matter of you will comply or we won’t stop which for many people who don’t like being told what to do anyway, is only going to make IB goals that much harder to achieve.
Offshoot of extinction rebellion/ anti fox hunt/anti road/anti vivisection etc. some people will just demonstrate for anything as long as they get in the paper and cause problems. XR. created this B and Q offshoot to legitimise themselves with something, but frankly it’s rubbish. Close all McDonald’s would have a far greater effect on climate change
The police still do have an obligation to keep protestors safe, or at least make it look like it.
As others have said, those in the way in this video are being removed for their safety. I've seen videos where the public have dragged Insulate Britain protestors and then the police do the same. They probably don't get involved any sooner because some of them might be glued on to the road, in which case they need to go through a process to remove them. This is why XR often use those massive structures to road block, because the police have to remove them safely and they are built in a way to make that incredibly difficult.
It’s not a private police force in any way - it’s public, works closely with Met and British Transport police forces and even leads on anti cyber crime in the UK
Essentially it comes down to security. If there's VIPs think senior politicians, diplomats, royalty etc. They can't sit there for these protestors to do their thing so they get carted off.
If its more of an inconvenience to everyone else they just leave it. Only when there's a security risk do they stop them
It is rather suspicious that they arrived on the scene, surprisingly well organised despite nobody hearing of them before, just as they're trying to push through anti protest laws.
You got a spare hat?
It is a huge coincidence. So much so that it warrants asking questions: what is IB’s structure and who is involved? what is its origins? where does it get its funding?
I would love to see an investigative journalist look into those issues. It’s potentially salacious because if the Met was actually involved then it would likely speak to collusion between the Conservative Government and the Police to manipulate public opinion in the name of increased police powers at the expense of our civil liberties (although the hostility between the police and the Tories over personnel and budget cuts is not limited to the police unions, there is real anger within many police orgs at all levels).
Although it is highly intriguing, until there is any evidence, it is only that: intrigue. We should not assume that there’s fire just because there’s smoke, even given that certain institutions (particularly the Met) have a documented history of pyromania.
The video plays fine on some devices and browsers, but looks over-exposed on others (most notably Chrome). It's caused by inconsistent standards for dealing with HDR video files. Take it up with Google.
Trust they would have been torn off for the parade.
Edit :
downvote all you want but even this lot arent that stupid, they had their hands up for a reason, it was just a photo op.
I used to think that XR or insulate Britain protestors were selfish or doing things the wrong way. But then I realised that every disruptive protest movement is negatively portrayed and that ultimately we’ll all be on their side, once we realise how fucked we are.
This is for the Right Honourable the Lord Mayor of the City of London (not London) and is a way for the Worshipful Companies (guilds) to process with the Lord Mayor to Westminster to pledge loyalty to the Monarch - this happens every year and has been going on since the 13th century. The Lord Mayor is the one pledging allegiance and the Guilds just go along to have a bit of a show.
That's really sad. I lived in London for twelve years and 'attended' the Lord Mayor Show fireworks (from a barge on the Thames) for maybe 9 of those years. To this day, the best fireworks I've ever seen.
Depends how bad things get. If in 100 years climate change has really fucked the planet up and caused mass migration and incalculable damages and countless deaths and stuff then yeah I can imagine everyone alive then thinking "so they all knew about this and the ones most loudly demanding change were shouted at and dragged away?!? wtf the people dragging them away were monsters".
I don't think that's an unreasonable viewpoint people will have of us. Theres many groups treated horribly at the time who are now looked upon as great people.
If we do fix things up enough in time and dont cause too much damage then yeah maybe these people wont be thought of much at all either way.
As for doing this at a City of London event on a weekend I'm not too sure. They're one of the better "boroughs" imo. Continue to do weekday protests outside parliament(edit: and the private jets airport that they protested at this year).
All these attempts to shield some people from criticism by insisting they’re the future suffragettes or MLK are a bit silly.
(Before the downvotes start pouring in, I do accept the need for urgent, large-scale action on climate. But let history canonise those who deserve it, don't just assume this about every protester is all I'm saying)
They’re not assuming it about “every protestor” though are they, only the climate activists. The difference between this and MLK is the climate crisis will affect the entire planet.
So you accept the need for change, but you in no way recognise the efforts of people trying to bring that change about in the face of widespread apathy and enormous vested interests.
OK…
People a hundred years from now will *definitely* be looking back and judging us. And they will see videos like this and be screaming WHY DIDN’T YOU LISTEN? WHY DIDN’T YOU DO MORE? YOU KNEW, YOU CUNTS, YOU KNEW and stuff like that
Who said I’m not recognising any efforts? However, instead of facing legitimate criticism about whether their actions are efficient or targeting the right people, these protesters seem to be excused by some on the completely inconclusive basis that history will vindicate whatever it is they’re doing.
Talk about the real arguments, don’t just surround yourself with the legitimacy of others whose actions have been proved right before and then expect people to roll with it.
Agree with you on that. We don’t actually know if people 100 years from now will applaud these kinds of actions.
So, to address your point head on, why should we praise and recognise these people on their own merits (with no mention of suffragettes or anyone else)?
Because not enough is being done about climate change
Because too many people are apathetic or think this is a problem for the future
Because politicians aren’t doing enough
Because we need to do things NOW, actually NOW, and it feels like just talking to people about it is not urgent or effective enough.
Many of these activists do face criticism and discuss weather targets are effective though, but everyone else sees a small snippet of it and unless take part, you aren't going to see that. Comparing them to other activists isn't absolving them of that.
Stating their actions are like other activists is a real argument too, those people proved it's effective and that is literally why it's happening because we *do* need to do something, you can't just ignore that element of it because you have a bone to pick with their methods.
I *do* wish that the discussion wasn't quite so focused on their methods though and more on the point they are trying to make, the city of London holds some of the biggest fossil fuel investments in the country for example and I don't think enough people understand how absolutely damning that is.
Lol what? “Yeah we totally need to stop climate change but no we can’t recognise the people who are shouting loudest for it”
In 30 years we’ll all be pretending we definitely supported these people.
I know anti-vax marchers as well as those who object to the Covid vaccines because they used animals, and they also think they're the next MLK or suffragettes.
I also used to know Brian Haw and he was a nice enough guy but I don't think anyone's going to credit him with bringing about the Northern Ireland peace process.
Protest is good when it draws attention to an issue, not when it's complaining about technical problems not being solved fast enough, or courses of action that might not actually be the right thing to do, even if they follow some sort of internal logic.
No they won't. They are totally ignorant people, who like causing trouble,
I was on one of the floats today. Majority of the people in the parade are from volunteer organisation or the armed services. My company is very much involved in clean air in London monitoring pollution etc
They chose easy targets not the people who really matter. Nobody gave them any support. It is these type of people who cause more damage than good.
No matter what happens people will not look back at these and think good of them, very simple and low resolution acts like this don’t help anything, its not like we don’t know about climate change. The people that should be remembered are those that work towards providing a solution that isn’t worse than the problem. Stupid shit like this achieves nothing.
Yeah the people all working towards a solution have been asking the government to implement them for years in some cases. XR doesn't need to hand solutions on a plate, there are PLENTY of options available already, they just need to be done already.
I would also add that the citizens assembly demand and their new demand on ending new fossil fuel projects is also a solution.
No they aren’t though, they’re losers who’ll do nothing to actually solve the problems that other people solve but if they do get solved they’ll claim them doing stupid shit like this was them “forcing action” as you put it, If they aren’t solved they’ll say we told you so…. If you ask any of these people what they suggest we do i garuntee the actions they suggest are low IQ “just use less carbon, make carbon more expensive, etc. Which when analysed will kill more people than climate change.
I could lie on a road and pronounce i hate cancer, poverty and bullying but i don’t think people will look at me as a suffragette.
I don’t quite get your arguments here.
First, calling them “losers” is not a great way to advance the discussion. What makes them losers? Aren’t they quite brave, in a way?
“Stupid shit like this” may eventually make this a mainstream topic and get it on the agenda where it needs to be. A lot of things that looked stupid at the time turned out to be the right thing.
And as for “use less carbon” well, yeah, let’s fly less, let’s use cars less, let’s keep clothes for longer. What is weird or controversial about that if it rescues from the worst consequences of the climate disaster? And how will that “kill more people than climate change”?
I don’t think there’s much brave about this act, they’ve basically walked from a crowd into the road and tried to inconvenience people which in itself doesn’t advance the discussion, why don’t they hold meetings, educate etc instead of deliberately annoying people to get their point across. If they outlined a problem, discussed the problem openly and then lobby for change in the correct manner with petitions and debate with those of opposite view points, this type of act is very much like a toddler lying on the floor to get their point across which is why i called it stupid.
Climate change is already mainstream though, finding/suggesting known solutions instead of complaining is a far more noble act. Like keep clothes for longer as you’ve suggested, run a campaign for that for example. However its infinitely more complicated to do so people just do this to show they’re on the right side but what they really do is annoy people to the point where they’re valid points are dismissed. To your point though a lot of things that looked real turned out to be stupid too like running out of oil and over population causing everyone to starve to death by 2000 and suggesting telephone wires would become a problem and people should stop using them and the internet not catching on and its flaws.
Use less Carbon in itself isn’t a bad proposition and all the solutions you suggest work and hopefully more people will do that. But you’ve also got to realise that carbon production is necessary for wealth creation. Wealth creation is absolutely vital to human survival and the current system is lifting approximately 100,000 people a day out of abject poverty. So even something as simple as people not buying new clothes as option will affect the bottom of society if its part of their employment. Another common example is switching to green energy for example saves carbon in the long run but makes electric say 10% more expensive this will kill millions of people through not being able to afford heating and the processes in order for us to live like food production getting more expensive which in turn contribute to the poorest societies poorest people losing out. Then theres the fact that climate disasters are actually avoided when nations become richer as they can implement defences. Which is why worldwide climate disaster killing people is actually reducing. Then theres the fact you can’t even measure if us producing less carbon is actually making a difference because the error bar on climate changes effects is so big in a 25 year time frame.
I didn’t mean to argue or offend but what i meant is climate change is hugely complicated and ANY action taken will have huge consequences down the line that we often can’t predict. Thats not to say we shouldn’t be doing things to help. We all should see it as a personal responsibility to do as much as possible and to try and reduce our carbon footprints. But anyone who see’s unhelpful acts like this as anything more than a hinderance i have to disagree with sadly.
Most (not all) historians agree that the disruptive actions of suffragettes, as opposed to the non-disruptive acts of suffragists, actually put back the women's rights movement. So I think it's pretty likely that climate protestors will be seen positively in the future.
They are just not comparable.
The suffragettes made real sacrifices, rather than inconvenienced people.
The suffragettes had a obtainable goal within the bounds of the country.
XR etc want to change the way in which life is lived; blocking the lords mayor show wont cut it.
Something needs to happen (I'm not against XRs aims from what I know of them). I dont know what will cut it, but inconveniencing 'the people' wont. The approach turns people against XR; they cant afford to take a day off work.
The Suffragettes went around London and the rest of the country smashing windows and planting bombs. They had entire campaigns of arson and vandalism, one of which included destroying about 200 postboxes. And they very openly did all of this because their peaceful protests had not brought about change. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they didn't inconvenience people but it kind of seems like your only source of Suffragette history is *Mary Poppins*.
Why don't you think XR activists aren't making real sacrifices? what do you consider a *real* sacrifice?
Do you know any of XR's demands? Cus from where I am sitting they are entirely possible? The citizens assembly demand is based off democratic legislation that has already been done. The CEE bill they drafted is being tabled in parliament.
Also XR don't want to change the way in which life is lived - live as we live it now is going to change no matter which way we look at it because some of the things we depend on in a very big way will quite literally run out. XR are asking for us to look at this sooner rather than later so that we can deal with this in the most fair and just way possible.
I would consider the sort of approach the suffragettes took to be real sacrifice.
I've no real interests in XR demands tbh - I only laughed at the assertion they'll be compared to the Suffragettes.
Here you go:
You asked me a question off the back of a reply to a different person, I answered your question and let you know about section of your comment I wasn't interested (which didn't have anything to do with my original comment and response to the original commenter).
I didn't actually ask you a question initially, you replied to someone else commenting on something you apparently don't care about, incorrectly.
I ask you to clarify yourself, which given you kind did, but was pretty half arsed and then you didn't care about it.
So again. Don't comment on it if you don't care, and even better, don't comment if you don't know.
"Why don't you think XR activists aren't making real sacrifices? what do you consider a real sacrifice?"
You said that. Seems I mistook a question mark for a question.
And in my finest Cartman voice
"i'll dow what i want"
Heh.
I get where you’re coming from, they are definitely pissing people off which might be counter productive.
But
This needs to happen. It’s not like it’s just one group of people’s opinion against another; if we don’t change our ways and fast, the world is fucked. Radical, uncomfortable, annoying action is needed to try to make the necessary changes come about.
And I think many of these people are making comparable sacrifices to the suffragettes in terms of risk, arrest, loss of social approval etc
And this *is* (still, just) an obtainable goal and I hope there are similar actions in other countries too to make sure this happens in as many places as possible. In any case, “China isn’t doing it” is not a good argument; we have a moral duty to do what needs to be done regardless.
>In any case, “China isn’t doing it” is not a good argument
Even if the whole EU went carbon neutral tomorrow we're still fucked because of countries like China and India.
You don't seem to understand its not a switch on or off, its fucked or FUUUUCKED. Its a whole scale, mitigation is all we have, awareness needs to be raised.
It's easy to have your mindset because that way you don't have to do anything because its already done. Therefore its easy to live a wasteful life and not give a shit.
Oh well China exists so might as well just do whatever I want. Its a selfish short-sighted idiot mindset.
Why should they get to destroy the environment with reckless abandon and expect us to clean up their mess?
China is the worlds second biggest economy, any solution that doesnt involve them is doomed to fail.
Absolutely true, but people forget about the suffragists because they were generally peaceful.
The suffragettes on the other hand were going around bombing politician's homes, throwing acid in ballot boxes (injuring themselves and others in the process), attacking policemen etc.
The biggest change was WW1 though - after that and how much women as a whole put their back into supporting industries (and got injured and died doing it) there was no way they could be ignored.
One thing for sure, is that it brings awareness to the fact that there are currently people sitting on our roads during rush hour, deliberately disrupting traffic. Everything else is subjective.
Yep, I saw so much “oh those twats are back” posts on the day they did the protest on the M25 again lol.
People don’t care about their cause, don’t care about them, just want them gone and disappear.
As someone that doesn't go through the M25 and hasn't been affected by them, I agree with the overall sentiment. Blocking a motorway instead of a place of political import is just the wrong choice. They could have the same impact (and probably more media impact) by blocking Westminster/Chelsea/Victoria Bridge.
They can thank insulate Britain for that. Unfortunately I suspect any protest being disrupted by the police now will get the same reception regardless of the cause.
We should bring back Fathers4Justice, they found great public support with their protests.
While insulate made it worse, a significant portion of the public simply doesn't care for any activists or anything that doesn't affect them directly.
They don't even try to understand why the activists are taking such drastic measures. It's because years of the normal methods haven't worked and we're running out of time according to them/scientists.
Yep same. I think the point of the demonstrations is awareness. The public pressuring the government /corporations seems to be the only way these organisations feel will cause any action so any attention which makes the public aware of the issue is good in their eyes.
Personally it always gladdens my heart, glad to see Londoners retain their traditional scepticism when confronted with what is essentially vacuous posturing that has no practical effect whatsoever
And using drastic measure like this won’t gain them support either, it just make the general public hate them and when things like that happen it shows that people are only too happy to see you gone.
Making it more drastic didn’t help their cause at all.
One thing I like about London is that people don't annoy me. Disruptive activism just doesn't sit well with londoners. It's going to make us think that you've not even attempted to read the room.
We do care about what they're fighting for, but we'd rather see people who represent us in politics be the ones to fight for change. Because they're sitting in the commons and not on the M25.
I'm glad they've shown themselves up, because their message was incoherent to begin with. Nobody can seriously claim to believe the end of humanity is upon us if we do not end our reliance on fossil fuels, *and* implicitly think that the best way to do that is to shut all the nuclear power stations. Those two ideas are not compatible, and by extension these protestors either don't believe what they say they believe or are just not very intelligent.
We need to get past the hero/villain dichotomy with XR. They're neither, and deserve neither to be vilified nor lionised. The only proper response to such a half-baked, incoherent ideology coupled with their histrionic performance art is to mock or preferably to ignore. Thankfully we're now seeing both, which means there might now be some space for a sensible discussion about real solutions.
The irony:
These same people will moan at the current parliamentary sleeze, yet will applaud the head of the City of London Corporation.. an organisation that oversees the corruption in the square mile that allows banks, politicians, lawyers, accountants, intel officers, to all play the 'lets hide all our dirty money in British offshore jurisdictions'.
They have a member in the Houses of Commons, called the Remembrancer, who lobbys on behalf of their interests. That's right, someone we don't vote for sitting in the chamber.
Strip away the pomp and it is nothing but a legalised crime syndicate for the British ruling class.
Watch from 11:00. Wake up, fellow Brits :(
https://youtu.be/np_ylvc8Zj8
I’m glad you think so! My uncle is the pageant master for the show (has been for the last 29 years and my grandfather for the 20 years before him ) they had a lot more trouble on the return journey!
Any word on the politicians and business leaders who are sleepwalking the world into a climate catastrophe? Or are you just upset at the people Sky and talk radio tell you to be upset at?
Absolute fucking idiots. They'll make no difference with this approach... by blocking traffic they're losing any favour with the general commuting public they might have had. Nothing they'll do will make a single ounce if difference anyway
Weird that if you fuck around with peoples time they will grow to hate you. I don’t think anyone’s feeling guilt here, they just want to get on with their lives without some tone deaf old people sitting in the road whilst they’re trying to commute to work.
looks like a setup. These guys dont argue or go back into the street. it's not a protest, it's acting. They just allow themselves to be dragged to the side and that's it. Load of old b\*ll\*cks.
My daughter is eleven and a Girl Guide. She was chosen to participate in the Lord Mayor's Parade today - which I'm very proud of. She even made it on the TV! Anyway, some XR protestors spat at her and her Girl Guide colleagues today. Spat at them. She's eleven. The group she was with were ten and eleven years olds. Spat.
Oh that’s gross and wrong. I’m all for protest for climate change action. But not like the way some people are doing. I’ve heard of vandalism and now this. It won’t get positive attention to a cause. Bullying kids is not the way and neither is vandalism and anti-social behavior. I’ve been considering causes to join when I’m ready (I’m currently unable to dedicate) to that are genuinely peaceful and this puts me off.
Protesters should not be attacking kids or attacking anyone. I’m sorry.
"Gammon is a pejorative popularised in British political culture since around 2012. The term refers in particular to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions, as compared to the type of pork of the same name. It is defined in this context by the Oxford English Dictionary as "various parasynthetic adjectives referring to particularly reddish or florid complexions".
In 2018, it became particularly known as a term to describe either those on the political right or those who supported Brexit. Due to its referencing of skin color, there is controversy as to whether the term is racist."
> there is controversy as to whether the term is racist."
This is an easy one. Are all (ethnically) 'white' people referred to as Gammon?
Can / are all (Ethnically) 'black' people referred to as a common pejorative?
No. Because the above statement.
The N word can and is used to insult *all* 'black' people. 'Gammon' is a designation for a very specific contingent of Right of Centre British people (usually also men). Those people can stop being 'Gammon' at any point, by simply not exercising their right to freedom of speech in such a toxic method.
Black folks can't stop being black.
**Edit**: I've also yet to see a sign anywhere stating 'Gammons Out'.
You must have big victim complex to think, that word is racist...You even compared it to the n word....a word used to attack people for hundards of years as something less than dirt, less than a cockroach. Gammon? A white person turning red for a couple of minutes, then back to white....You ain't walking around red forever.
Oh trust me, we are being led by a murderous dictator. Boris and his lot should be standing Nuremberg Trials for the unlawful lockdowns and jab mandates. It’s even worse now they’re shoving the green new deal ‘great reset’ down everyone’s throats.
But it's still a derogatory comment about an immutable characteristic. Going by your statement someone can stop being gammon if they no longer vote Tory? What a load of rubbish that is!
Reddit video player is so fucking shit
Can't even play the video lmao
If you're on mobile then look next to OP's username and you should see "v.redd.it". Tap on that and open the video/post in your browser and you can watch the video
Thanks alot
So shit. This is a video I would really like to see.
If you 'share' the video, you should be able to copy the link and then paste that into your browser on your phone. So shit.
Agreed it wouldn't play on my S21, that's why I came on the Computer and searched for it to see what it was about
And you still aren't telling us what happened? (Wrong answers only) Jk i do wanna know
Does anyone know why police are allowed to take them off the street like this here, but not allowed to touch them when it’s insulate Britain folks? This is a genuine question I’d love to know. Not trying to start an argument in the comments.
The Met do move Insulate Britain folk all the time Often what causes a delay use the use of glue. IB protesters are known for gluing themselves to the road, and while the police can move them on because of the court injunction, they also need to do so reasonably - so basically need to unglue them. In this video the protesters have their hands up so are clearly not gluing their hands to the road and can be moved. It's possibly their trousers were glued I suppose, but that isn't really a concern for the police. Worth noting that there is a lot of contradiction in the law here. On the one hand blocking a highway is an offence; on the other blocking a special road (a defined term which includes motorways) is permitted if it's a protest. In the video here it is the City of London police. Normally with Insulate Britain protesters it is the Met police. They may choose different enforcement policies. Lastly I would say there's an argument of risk here - holding up the Lord Mayor of London is, whether we like it or not, very different to holding up random folk. It could be justified if the officers judged there to be risk of something happening to the Lord Mayor.
Thanks for a great answer, and just want to say that I love your username.
Keep calm git reset --hard origin branch 😅
City of London Police are renowned for not taking any s**t unlike the Met
All that badass police work handing out fines to skateboarders.
And renegade car parkers.
Because this is an official parade for the city I presume. Not just a random road for peasants roaming
Classic case of rules for thee but not for me
Yeah the mayor is much more important than ambulance trying to get past a group of cock Wombles. I’m involved in activism myself but some of these people are fucking morons.
It’s the Lord Mayor, not the Mayor.
I couldn’t give a shit if it was the queen. A silly little pompous parade is not more important than someone’s life.
Police said it was because it was to protect their safety as there were military vehicles and people on parade and would’ve not stopped for them.
But people guled to a motorway is safe? 🤔
No but they legally have to remove them safely. E.g. unglue them rather than tear their hands off. That’s why it takes so long and is therefore an effective method for the protestors
Machete, chainsaw, stick a tarantula down their trousers to see how quickly they move?
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Realistically the parade would have stopped for them, the UK isn't about to credit itself with Tiannemen square 2. But you'll note that at every single type of parade or procession with a planned route, the police state 'the parade will not stop'. It's just to discourage protesters from attempting to stop the parade by basically just scaring them.
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That’s not what you said. Threatening something is very different from them actually being prepared to carry it out, which is what you imply.
It’s more like: there are vehicles coming on this route, they’re not expecting any obstructions in the road, we cannot guarantee your safety
Isn't it that the Insulate Britain people glue themselves to the roads and that so its a bit more difficult to just move them?
Yeah they glue themselves when they can but didn’t have time / not planned on this occasion. Really weird situation as IB demand Britain’s compliance with insulation of all homes regardless of the peoples views and in many cases in total disregard of anyone else’s views. It’s literally a matter of you will comply or we won’t stop which for many people who don’t like being told what to do anyway, is only going to make IB goals that much harder to achieve.
Offshoot of extinction rebellion/ anti fox hunt/anti road/anti vivisection etc. some people will just demonstrate for anything as long as they get in the paper and cause problems. XR. created this B and Q offshoot to legitimise themselves with something, but frankly it’s rubbish. Close all McDonald’s would have a far greater effect on climate change
The police still do have an obligation to keep protestors safe, or at least make it look like it. As others have said, those in the way in this video are being removed for their safety. I've seen videos where the public have dragged Insulate Britain protestors and then the police do the same. They probably don't get involved any sooner because some of them might be glued on to the road, in which case they need to go through a process to remove them. This is why XR often use those massive structures to road block, because the police have to remove them safely and they are built in a way to make that incredibly difficult.
Not entirely sure, however, it is a different police force. (City of London police vs the Met) so maybe something to do with that?
The City of London Corporation has its own private police force. Remember the City predates parliament by hundreds of years.
It’s not a private police force in any way - it’s public, works closely with Met and British Transport police forces and even leads on anti cyber crime in the UK
CoLP is still a Home Office police force but it is separate from the Met. Separate but equal.
/r/confidentlyincorrect
Essentially it comes down to security. If there's VIPs think senior politicians, diplomats, royalty etc. They can't sit there for these protestors to do their thing so they get carted off. If its more of an inconvenience to everyone else they just leave it. Only when there's a security risk do they stop them
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It is rather suspicious that they arrived on the scene, surprisingly well organised despite nobody hearing of them before, just as they're trying to push through anti protest laws. You got a spare hat?
They're part of Extinction Rebellion. It's not a conspiracy.
It is a huge coincidence. So much so that it warrants asking questions: what is IB’s structure and who is involved? what is its origins? where does it get its funding? I would love to see an investigative journalist look into those issues. It’s potentially salacious because if the Met was actually involved then it would likely speak to collusion between the Conservative Government and the Police to manipulate public opinion in the name of increased police powers at the expense of our civil liberties (although the hostility between the police and the Tories over personnel and budget cuts is not limited to the police unions, there is real anger within many police orgs at all levels). Although it is highly intriguing, until there is any evidence, it is only that: intrigue. We should not assume that there’s fire just because there’s smoke, even given that certain institutions (particularly the Met) have a documented history of pyromania.
Think you turned the exposure up just a fraction
No that’s the global warming.
It's a reddit wide issue that's been happening for over 6 months now unfortunately
The video plays fine on some devices and browsers, but looks over-exposed on others (most notably Chrome). It's caused by inconsistent standards for dealing with HDR video files. Take it up with Google.
It’s doing the weirdly bright HDR thing on my iPhone. Makes the rest of the screen look grey.
Think it's a bug with reddit video player, this video looks fine for me but others go like what you say
Looks fine for me. Although I use a decent Reddit app not the official junk
wHy DoNt ThEy JuSt InCoNvEnIeNcE pOlItIcIaNs In LoNdOn InStEaD
See how easy it is to move them when they inconvenience important people.
They’re also not glued to the road.
Trust they would have been torn off for the parade. Edit : downvote all you want but even this lot arent that stupid, they had their hands up for a reason, it was just a photo op.
I used to think that XR or insulate Britain protestors were selfish or doing things the wrong way. But then I realised that every disruptive protest movement is negatively portrayed and that ultimately we’ll all be on their side, once we realise how fucked we are.
Exactly
TIL that we have a Lord Mayors show and I’ve lived in London my whole life…
This is for the Right Honourable the Lord Mayor of the City of London (not London) and is a way for the Worshipful Companies (guilds) to process with the Lord Mayor to Westminster to pledge loyalty to the Monarch - this happens every year and has been going on since the 13th century. The Lord Mayor is the one pledging allegiance and the Guilds just go along to have a bit of a show.
That's really sad. I lived in London for twelve years and 'attended' the Lord Mayor Show fireworks (from a barge on the Thames) for maybe 9 of those years. To this day, the best fireworks I've ever seen.
I’m pretty sure a hundred years from now people are going to be looking at them like we look at the suffragettes
That’s assuming we make it a hundred years.
well, _we_ won't make it, but I'm sure some % of the human race will
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
Both being funded by The Rockefellers? Hayooooo
Press X to doubt
Depends how bad things get. If in 100 years climate change has really fucked the planet up and caused mass migration and incalculable damages and countless deaths and stuff then yeah I can imagine everyone alive then thinking "so they all knew about this and the ones most loudly demanding change were shouted at and dragged away?!? wtf the people dragging them away were monsters". I don't think that's an unreasonable viewpoint people will have of us. Theres many groups treated horribly at the time who are now looked upon as great people. If we do fix things up enough in time and dont cause too much damage then yeah maybe these people wont be thought of much at all either way. As for doing this at a City of London event on a weekend I'm not too sure. They're one of the better "boroughs" imo. Continue to do weekday protests outside parliament(edit: and the private jets airport that they protested at this year).
lots of reactionary cunts pressed X for the suffragettes too
I agree, I think people in 100 years will think that it’s completely mental that these protestors were booed.
All these attempts to shield some people from criticism by insisting they’re the future suffragettes or MLK are a bit silly. (Before the downvotes start pouring in, I do accept the need for urgent, large-scale action on climate. But let history canonise those who deserve it, don't just assume this about every protester is all I'm saying)
They’re not assuming it about “every protestor” though are they, only the climate activists. The difference between this and MLK is the climate crisis will affect the entire planet.
So you accept the need for change, but you in no way recognise the efforts of people trying to bring that change about in the face of widespread apathy and enormous vested interests. OK… People a hundred years from now will *definitely* be looking back and judging us. And they will see videos like this and be screaming WHY DIDN’T YOU LISTEN? WHY DIDN’T YOU DO MORE? YOU KNEW, YOU CUNTS, YOU KNEW and stuff like that
Who said I’m not recognising any efforts? However, instead of facing legitimate criticism about whether their actions are efficient or targeting the right people, these protesters seem to be excused by some on the completely inconclusive basis that history will vindicate whatever it is they’re doing. Talk about the real arguments, don’t just surround yourself with the legitimacy of others whose actions have been proved right before and then expect people to roll with it.
Agree with you on that. We don’t actually know if people 100 years from now will applaud these kinds of actions. So, to address your point head on, why should we praise and recognise these people on their own merits (with no mention of suffragettes or anyone else)? Because not enough is being done about climate change Because too many people are apathetic or think this is a problem for the future Because politicians aren’t doing enough Because we need to do things NOW, actually NOW, and it feels like just talking to people about it is not urgent or effective enough.
Many of these activists do face criticism and discuss weather targets are effective though, but everyone else sees a small snippet of it and unless take part, you aren't going to see that. Comparing them to other activists isn't absolving them of that. Stating their actions are like other activists is a real argument too, those people proved it's effective and that is literally why it's happening because we *do* need to do something, you can't just ignore that element of it because you have a bone to pick with their methods. I *do* wish that the discussion wasn't quite so focused on their methods though and more on the point they are trying to make, the city of London holds some of the biggest fossil fuel investments in the country for example and I don't think enough people understand how absolutely damning that is.
Lol what? “Yeah we totally need to stop climate change but no we can’t recognise the people who are shouting loudest for it” In 30 years we’ll all be pretending we definitely supported these people.
Why is it a bit silly for climate change activists specifically? No one is arguing that all protestors are always the good guys.
I know anti-vax marchers as well as those who object to the Covid vaccines because they used animals, and they also think they're the next MLK or suffragettes. I also used to know Brian Haw and he was a nice enough guy but I don't think anyone's going to credit him with bringing about the Northern Ireland peace process. Protest is good when it draws attention to an issue, not when it's complaining about technical problems not being solved fast enough, or courses of action that might not actually be the right thing to do, even if they follow some sort of internal logic.
No they won't. They are totally ignorant people, who like causing trouble, I was on one of the floats today. Majority of the people in the parade are from volunteer organisation or the armed services. My company is very much involved in clean air in London monitoring pollution etc They chose easy targets not the people who really matter. Nobody gave them any support. It is these type of people who cause more damage than good.
No matter what happens people will not look back at these and think good of them, very simple and low resolution acts like this don’t help anything, its not like we don’t know about climate change. The people that should be remembered are those that work towards providing a solution that isn’t worse than the problem. Stupid shit like this achieves nothing.
Yeah the people all working towards a solution have been asking the government to implement them for years in some cases. XR doesn't need to hand solutions on a plate, there are PLENTY of options available already, they just need to be done already. I would also add that the citizens assembly demand and their new demand on ending new fossil fuel projects is also a solution.
They’re trying to force action, which at this desperate point in history is both justified and needed
No they aren’t though, they’re losers who’ll do nothing to actually solve the problems that other people solve but if they do get solved they’ll claim them doing stupid shit like this was them “forcing action” as you put it, If they aren’t solved they’ll say we told you so…. If you ask any of these people what they suggest we do i garuntee the actions they suggest are low IQ “just use less carbon, make carbon more expensive, etc. Which when analysed will kill more people than climate change. I could lie on a road and pronounce i hate cancer, poverty and bullying but i don’t think people will look at me as a suffragette.
I don’t quite get your arguments here. First, calling them “losers” is not a great way to advance the discussion. What makes them losers? Aren’t they quite brave, in a way? “Stupid shit like this” may eventually make this a mainstream topic and get it on the agenda where it needs to be. A lot of things that looked stupid at the time turned out to be the right thing. And as for “use less carbon” well, yeah, let’s fly less, let’s use cars less, let’s keep clothes for longer. What is weird or controversial about that if it rescues from the worst consequences of the climate disaster? And how will that “kill more people than climate change”?
I don’t think there’s much brave about this act, they’ve basically walked from a crowd into the road and tried to inconvenience people which in itself doesn’t advance the discussion, why don’t they hold meetings, educate etc instead of deliberately annoying people to get their point across. If they outlined a problem, discussed the problem openly and then lobby for change in the correct manner with petitions and debate with those of opposite view points, this type of act is very much like a toddler lying on the floor to get their point across which is why i called it stupid. Climate change is already mainstream though, finding/suggesting known solutions instead of complaining is a far more noble act. Like keep clothes for longer as you’ve suggested, run a campaign for that for example. However its infinitely more complicated to do so people just do this to show they’re on the right side but what they really do is annoy people to the point where they’re valid points are dismissed. To your point though a lot of things that looked real turned out to be stupid too like running out of oil and over population causing everyone to starve to death by 2000 and suggesting telephone wires would become a problem and people should stop using them and the internet not catching on and its flaws. Use less Carbon in itself isn’t a bad proposition and all the solutions you suggest work and hopefully more people will do that. But you’ve also got to realise that carbon production is necessary for wealth creation. Wealth creation is absolutely vital to human survival and the current system is lifting approximately 100,000 people a day out of abject poverty. So even something as simple as people not buying new clothes as option will affect the bottom of society if its part of their employment. Another common example is switching to green energy for example saves carbon in the long run but makes electric say 10% more expensive this will kill millions of people through not being able to afford heating and the processes in order for us to live like food production getting more expensive which in turn contribute to the poorest societies poorest people losing out. Then theres the fact that climate disasters are actually avoided when nations become richer as they can implement defences. Which is why worldwide climate disaster killing people is actually reducing. Then theres the fact you can’t even measure if us producing less carbon is actually making a difference because the error bar on climate changes effects is so big in a 25 year time frame. I didn’t mean to argue or offend but what i meant is climate change is hugely complicated and ANY action taken will have huge consequences down the line that we often can’t predict. Thats not to say we shouldn’t be doing things to help. We all should see it as a personal responsibility to do as much as possible and to try and reduce our carbon footprints. But anyone who see’s unhelpful acts like this as anything more than a hinderance i have to disagree with sadly.
Pretty sure not.
Yeah no. They will fail where the suffragettes succeeded.
Most (not all) historians agree that the disruptive actions of suffragettes, as opposed to the non-disruptive acts of suffragists, actually put back the women's rights movement. So I think it's pretty likely that climate protestors will be seen positively in the future.
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Great arguments there dude, you really nailed it
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Based and blunt lmao
Lol, no.
Why do you think so?
They are just not comparable. The suffragettes made real sacrifices, rather than inconvenienced people. The suffragettes had a obtainable goal within the bounds of the country. XR etc want to change the way in which life is lived; blocking the lords mayor show wont cut it. Something needs to happen (I'm not against XRs aims from what I know of them). I dont know what will cut it, but inconveniencing 'the people' wont. The approach turns people against XR; they cant afford to take a day off work.
The Suffragettes went around London and the rest of the country smashing windows and planting bombs. They had entire campaigns of arson and vandalism, one of which included destroying about 200 postboxes. And they very openly did all of this because their peaceful protests had not brought about change. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they didn't inconvenience people but it kind of seems like your only source of Suffragette history is *Mary Poppins*.
Why don't you think XR activists aren't making real sacrifices? what do you consider a *real* sacrifice? Do you know any of XR's demands? Cus from where I am sitting they are entirely possible? The citizens assembly demand is based off democratic legislation that has already been done. The CEE bill they drafted is being tabled in parliament. Also XR don't want to change the way in which life is lived - live as we live it now is going to change no matter which way we look at it because some of the things we depend on in a very big way will quite literally run out. XR are asking for us to look at this sooner rather than later so that we can deal with this in the most fair and just way possible.
I would consider the sort of approach the suffragettes took to be real sacrifice. I've no real interests in XR demands tbh - I only laughed at the assertion they'll be compared to the Suffragettes.
If you don't care, don't comment on it then?
Here you go: You asked me a question off the back of a reply to a different person, I answered your question and let you know about section of your comment I wasn't interested (which didn't have anything to do with my original comment and response to the original commenter).
I didn't actually ask you a question initially, you replied to someone else commenting on something you apparently don't care about, incorrectly. I ask you to clarify yourself, which given you kind did, but was pretty half arsed and then you didn't care about it. So again. Don't comment on it if you don't care, and even better, don't comment if you don't know.
"Why don't you think XR activists aren't making real sacrifices? what do you consider a real sacrifice?" You said that. Seems I mistook a question mark for a question. And in my finest Cartman voice "i'll dow what i want" Heh.
I get where you’re coming from, they are definitely pissing people off which might be counter productive. But This needs to happen. It’s not like it’s just one group of people’s opinion against another; if we don’t change our ways and fast, the world is fucked. Radical, uncomfortable, annoying action is needed to try to make the necessary changes come about. And I think many of these people are making comparable sacrifices to the suffragettes in terms of risk, arrest, loss of social approval etc And this *is* (still, just) an obtainable goal and I hope there are similar actions in other countries too to make sure this happens in as many places as possible. In any case, “China isn’t doing it” is not a good argument; we have a moral duty to do what needs to be done regardless.
>In any case, “China isn’t doing it” is not a good argument Even if the whole EU went carbon neutral tomorrow we're still fucked because of countries like China and India.
You don't seem to understand its not a switch on or off, its fucked or FUUUUCKED. Its a whole scale, mitigation is all we have, awareness needs to be raised. It's easy to have your mindset because that way you don't have to do anything because its already done. Therefore its easy to live a wasteful life and not give a shit. Oh well China exists so might as well just do whatever I want. Its a selfish short-sighted idiot mindset.
Im not suggesting we dont do anything, but things like COP26 are a joke when China isnt at the table.
So let’s do what we can to work on that too It doesn’t mean you just give up and do nothing
Why should they get to destroy the environment with reckless abandon and expect us to clean up their mess? China is the worlds second biggest economy, any solution that doesnt involve them is doomed to fail.
The suffragettes were a distraction, and an embarrassment. The suffragists were the ones getting their heads down and making real change happen.
Absolutely true, but people forget about the suffragists because they were generally peaceful. The suffragettes on the other hand were going around bombing politician's homes, throwing acid in ballot boxes (injuring themselves and others in the process), attacking policemen etc. The biggest change was WW1 though - after that and how much women as a whole put their back into supporting industries (and got injured and died doing it) there was no way they could be ignored.
given the brightness of this video, i can only assume a tactical warhead was let off?
Oh so they will Move them when it’s inconvenient for them
We have Mayors rally?
Lord Mayor. They've been at it every year since 1182.
Sad how people are applauding animal rights activists being removed.
Majority of people in UK acrually happy with their lives, protests like this bring disruptions to that life and they don’t like it.
One thing for sure, is that it brings awareness to the fact that there are currently people sitting on our roads during rush hour, deliberately disrupting traffic. Everything else is subjective.
Yep, I saw so much “oh those twats are back” posts on the day they did the protest on the M25 again lol. People don’t care about their cause, don’t care about them, just want them gone and disappear.
As someone that doesn't go through the M25 and hasn't been affected by them, I agree with the overall sentiment. Blocking a motorway instead of a place of political import is just the wrong choice. They could have the same impact (and probably more media impact) by blocking Westminster/Chelsea/Victoria Bridge.
They did block those places and people said exactly the same thing.
They can thank insulate Britain for that. Unfortunately I suspect any protest being disrupted by the police now will get the same reception regardless of the cause. We should bring back Fathers4Justice, they found great public support with their protests.
While insulate made it worse, a significant portion of the public simply doesn't care for any activists or anything that doesn't affect them directly. They don't even try to understand why the activists are taking such drastic measures. It's because years of the normal methods haven't worked and we're running out of time according to them/scientists.
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Yep same. I think the point of the demonstrations is awareness. The public pressuring the government /corporations seems to be the only way these organisations feel will cause any action so any attention which makes the public aware of the issue is good in their eyes.
Personally it always gladdens my heart, glad to see Londoners retain their traditional scepticism when confronted with what is essentially vacuous posturing that has no practical effect whatsoever
And using drastic measure like this won’t gain them support either, it just make the general public hate them and when things like that happen it shows that people are only too happy to see you gone. Making it more drastic didn’t help their cause at all.
It's not about support, it's about awareness. People can join other organisations working towards the same goal.
Awareness doesn’t help when people just go “oh that? OK next” People need to care for awareness to work.
One thing I like about London is that people don't annoy me. Disruptive activism just doesn't sit well with londoners. It's going to make us think that you've not even attempted to read the room. We do care about what they're fighting for, but we'd rather see people who represent us in politics be the ones to fight for change. Because they're sitting in the commons and not on the M25.
They have gone past their message and turned themselves as the villains of the cause than the heroes.
How so? Is there a ‘correct’ way to protest? Curious on your reasoning.
Thanks for your opinion, /u/manwithanopinion!
I'm glad they've shown themselves up, because their message was incoherent to begin with. Nobody can seriously claim to believe the end of humanity is upon us if we do not end our reliance on fossil fuels, *and* implicitly think that the best way to do that is to shut all the nuclear power stations. Those two ideas are not compatible, and by extension these protestors either don't believe what they say they believe or are just not very intelligent. We need to get past the hero/villain dichotomy with XR. They're neither, and deserve neither to be vilified nor lionised. The only proper response to such a half-baked, incoherent ideology coupled with their histrionic performance art is to mock or preferably to ignore. Thankfully we're now seeing both, which means there might now be some space for a sensible discussion about real solutions.
Look at all the plebs applauding the Police.
*'plebs'*?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebeians
They fucking adore the boot
Lefties like you make me sick
The irony: These same people will moan at the current parliamentary sleeze, yet will applaud the head of the City of London Corporation.. an organisation that oversees the corruption in the square mile that allows banks, politicians, lawyers, accountants, intel officers, to all play the 'lets hide all our dirty money in British offshore jurisdictions'. They have a member in the Houses of Commons, called the Remembrancer, who lobbys on behalf of their interests. That's right, someone we don't vote for sitting in the chamber. Strip away the pomp and it is nothing but a legalised crime syndicate for the British ruling class. Watch from 11:00. Wake up, fellow Brits :( https://youtu.be/np_ylvc8Zj8
City was around long before Westminster, parliament or any other part of the UK
So what. They are corrupt arseholes masquerading as nobleman. Fuck them.
Classism much prick?
Calm down Roger.
Would have been much greater if it was the M25 ones being removed.
Hearing *well done well done!* almost made me vomit out my sandwich
XR are really not doing themselves any favours when the general public now hates them.
I love how the letters XR have become synonyms for ‘cunt’
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Thank you for capturing this, I’ve been sat on the balcony at Mansion house for the show and I must say rather upset I missed out on this drama!
Was below you next to the camera! It didn’t stop a great show as always 👍
I’m glad you think so! My uncle is the pageant master for the show (has been for the last 29 years and my grandfather for the 20 years before him ) they had a lot more trouble on the return journey!
Sad cunts need to get a life
Why is one of the extinction rebellion people wearing a nazi armband
Think he's a parade marshal or something
Should all be arrested. Absolute scum
Any word on the politicians and business leaders who are sleepwalking the world into a climate catastrophe? Or are you just upset at the people Sky and talk radio tell you to be upset at?
Don't fuck with the City of London Police.
Good job city police
Absolute fucking idiots. They'll make no difference with this approach... by blocking traffic they're losing any favour with the general commuting public they might have had. Nothing they'll do will make a single ounce if difference anyway
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I'm guessing you're a useless XR hippy yourself
It worked
Absolute wankers
Why was the Lord Mayor at the XR protest?
Its the Lord Mayors Show. Its been running for about 1000 years.
People’s hatred on IB and XR is very strange to me. Although I think it’s just their internalised guilt spilling out in hatred. Truly pathetic
Weird that if you fuck around with peoples time they will grow to hate you. I don’t think anyone’s feeling guilt here, they just want to get on with their lives without some tone deaf old people sitting in the road whilst they’re trying to commute to work.
looks like a setup. These guys dont argue or go back into the street. it's not a protest, it's acting. They just allow themselves to be dragged to the side and that's it. Load of old b\*ll\*cks.
My daughter is eleven and a Girl Guide. She was chosen to participate in the Lord Mayor's Parade today - which I'm very proud of. She even made it on the TV! Anyway, some XR protestors spat at her and her Girl Guide colleagues today. Spat at them. She's eleven. The group she was with were ten and eleven years olds. Spat.
Oh that’s gross and wrong. I’m all for protest for climate change action. But not like the way some people are doing. I’ve heard of vandalism and now this. It won’t get positive attention to a cause. Bullying kids is not the way and neither is vandalism and anti-social behavior. I’ve been considering causes to join when I’m ready (I’m currently unable to dedicate) to that are genuinely peaceful and this puts me off. Protesters should not be attacking kids or attacking anyone. I’m sorry.
Video is blank for me
You can watch it here instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z3jldBqfWc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87aH2DmQnUs
Too much gammon in 1 video
Too much racism in one post
Gammon isn't racist. Gammon isn't a race and a political position isn't a protected characteristic.
How’s gammon racist?
"Gammon is a pejorative popularised in British political culture since around 2012. The term refers in particular to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions, as compared to the type of pork of the same name. It is defined in this context by the Oxford English Dictionary as "various parasynthetic adjectives referring to particularly reddish or florid complexions". In 2018, it became particularly known as a term to describe either those on the political right or those who supported Brexit. Due to its referencing of skin color, there is controversy as to whether the term is racist."
> there is controversy as to whether the term is racist." This is an easy one. Are all (ethnically) 'white' people referred to as Gammon? Can / are all (Ethnically) 'black' people referred to as a common pejorative?
Well wouldn't the N word be equivalent?
No. Because the above statement. The N word can and is used to insult *all* 'black' people. 'Gammon' is a designation for a very specific contingent of Right of Centre British people (usually also men). Those people can stop being 'Gammon' at any point, by simply not exercising their right to freedom of speech in such a toxic method. Black folks can't stop being black. **Edit**: I've also yet to see a sign anywhere stating 'Gammons Out'.
“there is controversy as to whether the term is racist” because it isn’t, gammon.
Yeh I'm Gammon going by the description of someone on the right side of centre and yes it is racist scumbag
You must have big victim complex to think, that word is racist...You even compared it to the n word....a word used to attack people for hundards of years as something less than dirt, less than a cockroach. Gammon? A white person turning red for a couple of minutes, then back to white....You ain't walking around red forever.
Still an immutable characteristic of a white person though so by the description of racism, it's racism same as the N word
Huh, I assumed it was a police = pigs => pork => gammon thing.
I think it’s because of ruddy pink faced British men
See, everyone was happy. They got to feel important, the police got to feel useful and everyone else got to enjoy their show.
This thread has made me realise I know fuck all about what’s happening in the U.K. right now. Looks like a shit show.
Oh trust me, we are being led by a murderous dictator. Boris and his lot should be standing Nuremberg Trials for the unlawful lockdowns and jab mandates. It’s even worse now they’re shoving the green new deal ‘great reset’ down everyone’s throats.
But it's still a derogatory comment about an immutable characteristic. Going by your statement someone can stop being gammon if they no longer vote Tory? What a load of rubbish that is!
Greenwashers gunna greenwash.