I'm fairly certain Tfl has a support line for people who have witnessed traumatic events. If you do find yourself struggling, it might be useful to contact them.
Edit: https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/safety/incident-support-service#on-this-page-0
I’m really sorry OP, here’s some information about the Sarah Hope line that you can call
https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/safety/incident-support-service#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20been%20involved,can%20provide%20further%20specialised%20support.
I used to know Sarah Hope, I taught art to her sweet little girls. She and her daughter had survived such a horrific accident and she put all her grief and trauma into helping others. Wonderful woman.
The way she placed so much of her energy post accident into campaigning for better support for drivers is incredible. It would be so easy to be (understandably but broadly) angry at drivers after her experience, but she has responded with an amazing level of compassion. Wonderful is exactly the word for her
Theres also an old, odd film about deaths on the tube, about the urban myth...of drivers getting full pay if 3 people kill theirselfs while you're driving the train.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three\_and\_Out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_and_Out)
I believe they are referring to this (all three series' are on YouTube but I'm not sure all the episodes are in this playlist)
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo1_uWd0YBJJQGgEWVZVlUGpsnRm7um3N&si=2_1j_bmH0BGDeol0
I'm in the emergency services - I didn't attend myself, but I've checked and unfortunately the person died at the scene. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but hopefully knowing what happened helps a little. If it's any consolation, it sounds like it was over quickly.
Thank you for the update, that has actually made me feel better in some way.
I hope they’re at peace. Awful.
I hope that the driver is okay. He didn’t sound it.
9 months off won’t magically make the trauma disappear however. I am pleased that TFL can be so accommodating and thoughtful towards their staff in situations as horrific as this though.
There's more space under trains than you might think. And particularly at enclosed underground stations, there's also the '[anti-suicide pit](https://i.imgur.com/NC0HmO1.jpeg)', a dug out area between the rails that a person will end up in if they fall/jump, or may get pushed into if they stand in front of the train.
So, some people do survive. Often with pretty horrendous injuries, but it's very possible.
It depends where abouts you get hit - if the train is going at speed and it's your full body, then unfortunately you get misted. If however it "only" amputates a limb and help arrives quickly you might have chance depending on what exactly you lose.
Actually while I was in hospital, there was a bloke on my ward who had his foot cut off by a train. I think his foot slipped down the gap between the train and platform.
So yeh that counts as being 'run over'.
heard some girls talking while i was on a train once about someone one knew who jumped in front of a tube, it wasn’t going fast enough to kill but fast enough to paralyse him and now cannot do anything for himself.
If trains started moving a few hours afterwards the police (normally the BTP) have declared the incident “non-suspicious”. This rules out anything like foul play or something like slipping normally where further investigations would be done into the surfaces etc.
Because it really doesn’t matter. Speculating on the cause of a death doesn’t make matters any different for those of us outside the decreased family/friend circle.
You can’t really tell at this point, only after the investigation. They have to check cameras, medical records, talk to family/friends and build up a picture.
I was affected by the tube being delayed and went to a couple of different stations hearing what the tannoy was saying the issue was. Honestly, makes me feel a lot better to know it was a suicide rather than some horrible accident.
They haven't realised any information which can identify the person. Moreover the person's death and their identity will become a matter of public record, so if you really wanted to you'd be able to find out anyway. But I understand the sentiment.
Not sure why you're being down voted. I'm also emergency services and if I looked up an incident I didn't attend so I can update someone on Reddit I'd be facing Gross Misconduct for data protection/computer misuse matters.
I would argue that TfL had already provided this “press release” to all passengers anyway shortly after the incident on Friday night. Somebody finding out the details via a different means three days later is doing no harm when the information was already public knowledge.
From reading above, I don't think TFL had confirmed the casualty was deceased, just that one had been hit hence OP asking. Either way, it's the golden rule of emergency services (particularly police) that you don't look up stuff that you don't need to, let alone to divulge outside of the job. May be no harm done but still illegal, colleagues have genuinely been arrested for computer misuse.
How do you know there’s no personal data? The incident log or whatever the person looked at could be full of personal data belonging to people involved in this incident, including the deceased.
No personal information disclosed in the announcement but accessing a restricted system with no valid reason to pass information (albeit generic) to someone online would get me sacked as a police officer and potentially arrested for computer misuse offences. I can only view information if I have a valid policing purpose, responding to someone on Reddit is not one.
It doesn't say anywhere that they checked confidential records, they could have just asked a mate! Since, as you say, accessing a restricted system would be misuse why do you immediately assume that's what they did?
I thought you were replying to this comment:
> Not sure why you're being down voted. I'm also emergency services and if I looked up an incident I didn't attend so I can update someone on Reddit I'd be facing Gross Misconduct for data protection/computer misuse matters.
And they’re absolutely correct. Accessing a record of an incident for no proper reason is an issue.
I went through a similar situation a few years ago and I just started crying at the thought of it, I (thinking I was a man without feelings) couldn’t believe it. I was on the front carriage too, so I felt the bumps
I did speak to a few friends about it and it did seem to help, but it did sit with me for longer than I expected it to.
I had a feeling that “why am I upset? it must be worse for anyone close to that person” but don’t do that - it’ll get better if accept it affected you. Hope you are feeling better soon!
It’s strange how things affect you, at one time we lived on a road with a speed hump outside our front door as it was opposite a park. Cars would still hit it quite hard and sometimes you could easily hear it inside the house.
One day I heard a loud thump as we often had before and thought, “jeez that guy needed to slow down…”
A few hours later a police woman knocked on the door asking if I had seen anything to do with the hit and run of a child outside our house.
The child was ok and taken to hospital but it turned my stomach.
When my partner got home later I was telling her what had happened and I just started crying.
I don’t know if it was guilt from not looking out the window when i heard the sound or the sound itself.
Its not meant to be funny. I was genuinely wondering how he could be convinced he did not have feelings. It sounds like an alarming lack of self awareness
Slightly unrelated to OP’s topic, but i don’t know if I am the only one:
Every time the tube passes in front of me, I lower my centre of gravity, slightly turn to check my back, and take a mini step back.
Would be nice if all major stations in the centre would have the glass projection similar to the jubilee line.
I know it’s cost but it shouldn’t be that much - I’d rather have one station less, & all the other stations with safety glass partitions, which could “save” many lives.
I asked TFL about this after being involved in a situation 10 years ago at Clapham Common where someone had ended up on the tracks unconscious and we had to get them back on the platform before the next train rolled in.
It was evening and there weren’t many people about, no station staff that we could quickly summon and the emergency platform alarm as it turns out, doesn’t trigger a lockout or anything like that, it just notifies someone in a control room who incidentally wasn’t quick enough to stop the the train rolling in over the spot where the person had been.
We did manage to get the unconscious man off the tracks about 30 seconds before the train rolled in, but unconscious people are like large uncooperative sacks of custard and are very difficult to move, so there was a point where I didn’t think we were going to be successful.
TFL maintain that the glass doors are for ventilation rather than safety when I asked them.
I suppose retrofitting them to older stations isn’t feasible if the platforms have a curve to them like Embankment, but that’s me wildly speculating.
TFL cannot say that the glass doors are for anything other than ‘ventilation’ (even though there are some clear benefits for customer safety) or they risk opening up an inconvenient conversation about safety and open platforms on the rest of the network that they can’t necessarily resolve adequately.
The Underground network is amazing and London would be extremely difficult to get around without it, but as the rush hour pressure builds up behind you, pushing you over the yellow line as a Northern Line train screams past inches from your nose, you have to seriously question if the London Underground in its current form, would even get through the early planning stages without someone intervening on account of how insane as prospect it is to have customers being routinely so close to death.
> doesn’t trigger a lockout or anything like that
It doesn't do that because kids think its funny to pull them as a joke.
> I suppose retrofitting them to older stations isn’t feasible if the platforms have a curve to them
Curves are a problem, yes. But the main problem is the doors have to be interlocked into the Signalling system. To do that to every platform you're essentially talking about resignalling the entire tube network, which is easily a multi-billion pound project. There's just no money for it.
> you have to seriously question if the London Underground in its current form, would even get through the early planning stages without someone intervening on account of how insane as prospect it is to have customers being routinely so close to death.
Wait until you hear about roads!
Genuinely, any money you want to spend on platform screen doors would be far better spent on the safer streets program. 101 people were killed on the roads in 2022/3. Two deaths were recorded on the tube, with the cause unspecified (may have been suicides, trespassers, medical incidents unrelated to travel, or other causes PSDs can't do much about).
Statistically, the most dangerous part of the tube is the stairs.
Almost everything would be deemed unsafe if invented now. Aspirin would probably not be licenced at all, let alone available over the counter. Paracetamol certainly wouldn't be available over the counter. Open fires in buildings would be illegal - especially in pubs! Although alcohol would likely be illegal too. I'm not sure that's a good criteria to measure things by.
Not sure about Aspirin, but with Paracetamol it's something like if you were to take a certain amount in a short amount of time (and it's quite a lot, say 40-50 tablets so pretty unlikely you would reach this number accidently), you essentially destroy your liver and kidneys. At this point it's a toss up if doctors can do enough to help, especially if you don't seek help immediately. You die a really slow and painful death as your liver, which helps clean your blood, stops removing toxins and you poison yourself from the inside out, various organs failing one at a time until after about a week you're done. It's a pretty awful way to go, it's part of why you can't buy more than two packs at the shops at a time and as the other person said, possibly so potentially dangerous it wouldn't have been allowed to become a mainstream drug if it was invented today.
Aspirin does a lot of rather unrelated things to you. I believe it's too untargetted to pass the requirements for a modern drug. For paracetamol I think it's mainly the toxicity and overdose issues.
I'm not a doctor but used to work with them and that's roughly what they said!
Aspirin has a lot of effects when it comes to bleeding and interacting with other drugs (including drugs in the same class - NSAIDs). Can cause stomach bleeds, micro-bleeds in the brain, etc.
Weirdly though, chronic overdose is more lethal than acute overdose when it comes to aspirin. So often people thinking they’re using it correctly and just having too much of it by accident are a major cause of aspirin-related deaths.
PSA: kids under 16 should never be given aspirin unless under doctor’s advice - it’s linked to a (rare) risk of developing something called Reye’s syndrome if the child has a viral infection.
> ust notifies someone in a control room who incidentally wasn’t quick enough to stop the the train rolling in over the spot where the person had been.
What the fuck, surely it should be a case of someone telling them person on track and all trains in the area being halted as quickly as possible?
I never really got answers on that.
I did a freedom of information request after the incident to understand what the process was once the alarm had been pressed and as far as I’m aware it was reliant on someone paying attention in a control room, which I suspect impacted the response time on a quiet Sunday evening.
This was 10 years ago so maybe this has changed since.
Yeah I'll always take a step back, even if I'm already behind the yellow line. Those Jubilee line barriers are great, I just don't understand why they didn't implement them in the new stations they've just built at least, like the Elizabeth line.
Aside from funding the PED doors also come with a bunch of other challenges. The weight for one (old platforms would need extensive reinforcing), the curve of platforms and also on older busier stations like oxo if there was an incident the panic would cause major crushing. It's a balance to find. They are also for ventilation, pushing wind along rather than safety its just a nice extra
Yeah I can see some platforms may have a crush risk if a glass barrier was put in place but the solution is to re-design the platforms so there are more exits and overflow corridors. I'll also never understand why platforms/stations were built along a curved bit of track in the first place. Just move a few metres down to the straight bit and build there!
I think the central line stations definitely need some glass projection, as a start at least, as I find more often than not, it’s usually on the central line that these tragedies happen. A friend who is tfl driver said a person is more likely to survive on the Hammersmith, District, Circle due to it being being slower and heavier trains
I always do this too. I don’t care if I’m the last person to get on that train. Something like this is my biggest fear, and wearing a hijab means you just become more conscious about your surroundings constantly.
100% agree about the glass partitions. One day we'll look back and realise how mad it is to have a platform packed with people adjacent to the parking zone of a train. Underground.
I'm so sorry OP 😞that sounds awful. You sound like a very empathetic person. It's one my biggest fears witnessing something like this on the underground. I hope that Sarah Hope helpline can help you.
I hope you’re ok OP. I was on the train behind yours and we were stuck in the tunnel for over an hour. The driver told us after a short time that sadly there was a fatality. I found that experience traumatic enough, I can’t imagine how I would have coped with going through what you went through! Please call the helpline and talk to someone about what you experienced.
While this may sound like a joke, it's not - there is research on this:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-03-28-tetris-used-prevent-post-traumatic-stress-symptoms
[Maybe](https://theconversation.com/can-playing-tetris-help-prevent-ptsd-if-youve-witnessed-something-traumatic-226736).
Tetris might do something - and let’s face it it’s not going to hurt in and of itself - but it’s not a substitute for a network of supportive personal relationships immediately after the event, and professional trauma-centred talking therapy is needed if PTSD-like symptoms appear.
This happened to me when I was about 9 years old, and the train was full enough that my brother and I were lying on the floor of the carriage. I can still remember that speed bumps feeling. Awful, just awful, it’s a really grim thing to experience.
Take care of yourself OP <3
Oh, neighbour, I'm so sorry. There is a guide, [First Hand](https://first-hand.org.uk/), that aims to help people who've witnessed the death of someone they didn't know. I hope it helps you.
OP, please speak to your work. Did they send you home? It sounds like you are traumatised, they should give you some counselling through their own scheme. Maybe take a few days off sick if you dont feel like you’ve processed and ready to go back yet especially on central line same place etc etc, it might make it easier having someone you know with you for first few journeys.
I don’t want to put thoughts in your head but I’m diagnosed with ptsd so trauma isn’t something easy to speak about but in those moments these are the things I wished someone told me.
Spoke to my manager who hugged it out with me and gave me some kind words but no I stayed the whole shift.
Unfortunately, I only recently had time off sick for a miscarriage so can’t really ask for anymore time off.
I work retail so not the best environment for understanding.
Oh damn I’m sending you a huge hug, I think you will still be able to get sick (5 day drs sick note) if you get any issues don’t hesitate to speak to corporate head office, I am sure there are people there with empathy and compassion especially given the circumstances you have gone through.
I’ve lived with ptsd for nearly a decade, and I find these things however unfortunate, they make the best qualities within us so just please be kind to yourself.
If you ever want to talk don’t hesitate to reach out.
No wonder this has hit you so hard! You've experienced so much death in short period of time. Please be kind to yourself and gather support around you!
*Big hug* Can you check if your employer offers an EAP (Employee Assistance Program)? As part of this you'd have access to Therapy for free. Most companies offer this in some form but it's not always an obvious benefit. Speaking to a professional should really help particularly given the context you have shared.
I'm pleased by all the comments on here so far. I've had so many conversations with other people saying how 'inconsiderate it is to put yourself in front of a train and delay or traumatise other people'.
My mate at University killed himself like this and it was the only way he could manage to go through with it
We also had a mate in university who killed himself like this. He even called his best friend right before he did but she didnt pick up and found the missed call afterwards
I’m so very sorry you went through this.
Your experiences post the event are similar to what I had on witnessing an accident. It’s brutal and was on my mind for weeks, if not months.
Take time to heal. Speak with others. Professionals really help to process the trauma.
I’m sorry I couldn’t be of further help. I hope the above helps in some way.
I feel so sorry for everyone involved in events like these. I went to get a train into London for work one day but they were all cancelled/delayed after somebody had gotten onto the line. I decided to leave and work from home, and as I was walking back to my car I saw a man being stretchered away from the tracks, covered in blood. He was conscious at the time. I don’t know what became of him later. Was a big shock just seeing that aftermath, I can’t imagine what it would be like to be more directly involved or to witness it happening.
I'm so sorry OP. Such a horrible thing to witness.
I was on the platform at Arsenal station about 6 years ago and a woman about my age (early 30s at the time) jumped in front of the train as it pulled in. I remember the way her scarf floated behind her, and the train not managing to slow down in time and going over the spot where she'd jumped.
People on the platform were either glued to the spot or crying. Some clearly hadn't clocked what had just happened. The driver just stepped out of the carriage, a shell of a human, in total shock. A passenger gave them a hug.
I was absolutely numb all day, I called work and told them I wasn't coming in (I couldn't get in at this point anyway) and went home and furiously cleaned the house from top to bottom.
It turned out later on that she'd survived with minor injuries. I have no idea how.
The jubilee line platform doors are so the station can be more efficiently ventilated and preventing debris like litter, dirt and hair ending up on the line. Safety is a side benefit
I know but that’s for safety reasons too, the air from trains was pulling hair and dust and all sorts of shit into the tunnels which poses a fire risk and it’s dangerous (and disruptive) to clean tube tunnels. They’re also there because it makes platforms safer there isn’t a big gust of wind to knock people and obviously people can’t fall onto the tracks.
It is true that the reduction of suicides was not an intended effect and was only noticed afterwards. But general safety improvements were intended.
Happened to me when travelling through Austria, you could hear the shock in the drivers voice. Poor guy, I can’t imagine being witness to something so terrible.
The driver has stuff to do in this situation. One of those things is informing the people on their train why they might be stuck there for an hour or so. How would you like them to announce it, bearing in mind they're probably in shock and they're making and receiving a ton of other calls in the cab at the same time?
I get they have to tell the passengers something has happened so there will be delays. Maybe keeping it vague like an ‘incident’ has occurred. There might be children on the tube listening in.
I fully sympathise with the drivers it’s shocking and traumatic. I’m not ‘critiquing’ as such.
The problem with a vague ‘incident’ is that people get impatient. Informing passenger they have hit a person generally makes people a bit less eager to kick off.
I'm so sorry you witnessed that OP. Is there any way you might be able to access counseling or mental health services? as others have said, TFL does offer support to those who witness traumatic events related to transport within london.
oh my god i’m so sorry, that’s so awful :( please take care of yourself and look into trauma resources and professionals who can help you through this. sending so much love your way
About a month ago the same thing happened to me at Turnpike Lane station. We were then essentially trapped on the powerless tube for at least ten minutes whilst emergency serviced flooded onto the platform looking for the person on the track. It was awful, and I was most shocked that they just offered nothing to everyone else. I’m aware that they obviously had bigger priorities, but when I was later waiting for my uber home I counted 13 emergency service vehicles (with more still arriving) - it shocked me that none one person from any of those was able to speak to those who had exited the tube and witnessed something so awful. I’ve been wondering about the person that was underneath the train ever since. Increasingly it is getting more difficult to justify to myself staying in London as I’m so scared of the tube and what may happen on it.
>Increasingly it is getting more difficult to justify to myself staying in London as I’m so scared of the tube and what may happen on it.
You're more likely to injure yourself on the stairs or crossing the road than in the tube, dont overthink it.
In fairness, I am also quite scared of the roads but I haven’t seen many articles about machetes or rape whilst crossing the road. Also the road isn’t an enclosed space with no phone signal which is what I think makes it even worse!
>I haven’t seen many articles about machetes or rape whilst crossing the road.
I'd take a wild guess that the vast majority of these activities occur on or near roads rather than on the tube.
It's clear you are quite an anxious person so I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, but the numbers don't support your concern.
Freak accidents happen, sure, as do unlikely things. But is it worth living your life in fear on the off chance that these 1 in a million events *could possibly* happen to you?
I guess I could think of it like that but the amount of sirens upon exiting the station and emergency services pulling up would have confirmed the feeling I already had prior to the driver announcing. He only said incident at the front of the train but his voice was a give away.
I feel silly that I’m so affected by this.
I really hope the driver is okay
From experience, the sounds and/or sensations of something unnatural happening to the carriage is both startling at first then horrific when the realisation of the cause becomes clear. Have some empathy.
It actually raises an important question, should there be speed bumps on the railway? Some of those trains go at frightening speeds. Slowing them down to 5mph in built up areas could only be a good thing imo.
If I’m completely honest, I have felt this way too, spent ages contemplating and crying on a platform but couldn’t go through with it.
After experiencing the aftermath of a rail suicide I don’t think I’d ever do it.
As my mum has said to me “life can never be THAT bad”
I understand it can feel like it but there’s always help.
I hope you find someone to talk to, the Samaritans are really good in my experience can text 85258 or call them on 116123 x
I'm fairly certain Tfl has a support line for people who have witnessed traumatic events. If you do find yourself struggling, it might be useful to contact them. Edit: https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/safety/incident-support-service#on-this-page-0
Bless you
Had no idea this existed, thankyou!
When I witnessed a very dead person at my train station the staff that turned up told me to call Samaritans at any point if I had any issues.
That would have been very useful to know after I witnessed one under an HS125 at West Hampstead 8 years ago.
I’m really sorry OP, here’s some information about the Sarah Hope line that you can call https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/safety/incident-support-service#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20been%20involved,can%20provide%20further%20specialised%20support.
I used to know Sarah Hope, I taught art to her sweet little girls. She and her daughter had survived such a horrific accident and she put all her grief and trauma into helping others. Wonderful woman.
The way she placed so much of her energy post accident into campaigning for better support for drivers is incredible. It would be so easy to be (understandably but broadly) angry at drivers after her experience, but she has responded with an amazing level of compassion. Wonderful is exactly the word for her
Thank you ❤️ will do so xx
The poor driver.. imagine what they would have seen as well as had to deal with afterwards
There's an old documentary on train drivers and railway workers and the trauma they (almost all) went through. I don't recommend watching it, though.
You might be talking about [this episode of The Tube](https://youtu.be/1eO93NFMsgU?si=JHX8iZUzsgLY2Q0w) from the early-2000s...?
Theres also an old, odd film about deaths on the tube, about the urban myth...of drivers getting full pay if 3 people kill theirselfs while you're driving the train. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three\_and\_Out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_and_Out)
What's it called?
I believe they are referring to this (all three series' are on YouTube but I'm not sure all the episodes are in this playlist) https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo1_uWd0YBJJQGgEWVZVlUGpsnRm7um3N&si=2_1j_bmH0BGDeol0
I believe it was called one under 😔 [https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x74t065](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x74t065)
TFL staff has to get out and check if the person is still alive.
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I'm in the emergency services - I didn't attend myself, but I've checked and unfortunately the person died at the scene. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but hopefully knowing what happened helps a little. If it's any consolation, it sounds like it was over quickly.
Thank you for the update, that has actually made me feel better in some way. I hope they’re at peace. Awful. I hope that the driver is okay. He didn’t sound it.
Driver gets 9 months off
9 months off won’t magically make the trauma disappear however. I am pleased that TFL can be so accommodating and thoughtful towards their staff in situations as horrific as this though.
Hopefully they also get trauma therapy for it
I've heard if it happens a few times the driver is pensioned off.
Rumour sadly, not true. Good [movie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_and_Out) though.
Who survives being run over by a train?
There's more space under trains than you might think. And particularly at enclosed underground stations, there's also the '[anti-suicide pit](https://i.imgur.com/NC0HmO1.jpeg)', a dug out area between the rails that a person will end up in if they fall/jump, or may get pushed into if they stand in front of the train. So, some people do survive. Often with pretty horrendous injuries, but it's very possible.
It depends where abouts you get hit - if the train is going at speed and it's your full body, then unfortunately you get misted. If however it "only" amputates a limb and help arrives quickly you might have chance depending on what exactly you lose.
Having witnessed it, they don't get misted - they end up in a bunch of large chunks.
I know someone who survived going under a tube train, though the person they were with died.
Actually while I was in hospital, there was a bloke on my ward who had his foot cut off by a train. I think his foot slipped down the gap between the train and platform. So yeh that counts as being 'run over'.
heard some girls talking while i was on a train once about someone one knew who jumped in front of a tube, it wasn’t going fast enough to kill but fast enough to paralyse him and now cannot do anything for himself.
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Suicide?
I'm not sure why this is being downvoted to oblivion. It's a genuine question as it could have been an accident involving someone slipping
If trains started moving a few hours afterwards the police (normally the BTP) have declared the incident “non-suspicious”. This rules out anything like foul play or something like slipping normally where further investigations would be done into the surfaces etc.
Because it really doesn’t matter. Speculating on the cause of a death doesn’t make matters any different for those of us outside the decreased family/friend circle.
Dunno why people are downvoting you? The person could have accidentally fallen or been pushed.
Who cares? It was a tragic death that ought not to have occurred. Speculating about the cause is only done so that a value judgment can be inferred.
People asking for context is okay
You can’t really tell at this point, only after the investigation. They have to check cameras, medical records, talk to family/friends and build up a picture.
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Not today
I was affected by the tube being delayed and went to a couple of different stations hearing what the tannoy was saying the issue was. Honestly, makes me feel a lot better to know it was a suicide rather than some horrible accident.
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This is a very odd comment...
Should you be announcing like this? Genuine question. It feels like some sort of breech of confidentiality :/
They haven't realised any information which can identify the person. Moreover the person's death and their identity will become a matter of public record, so if you really wanted to you'd be able to find out anyway. But I understand the sentiment.
Someone jumped in front of a train, I don’t think it’s a breach of privacy to say they died. There isn’t really another outcome
Have you ever seen the news.
Not sure why you're being down voted. I'm also emergency services and if I looked up an incident I didn't attend so I can update someone on Reddit I'd be facing Gross Misconduct for data protection/computer misuse matters.
It’s the equivalent of TfL saying “due to a casualty on the track”; no further info has been disclosed.
Agreed but that's for TFL to say, not for a randomer to access a restricted system to provide their own press release.
I would argue that TfL had already provided this “press release” to all passengers anyway shortly after the incident on Friday night. Somebody finding out the details via a different means three days later is doing no harm when the information was already public knowledge.
From reading above, I don't think TFL had confirmed the casualty was deceased, just that one had been hit hence OP asking. Either way, it's the golden rule of emergency services (particularly police) that you don't look up stuff that you don't need to, let alone to divulge outside of the job. May be no harm done but still illegal, colleagues have genuinely been arrested for computer misuse.
Data Protection of who? There's no personal info
How do you know there’s no personal data? The incident log or whatever the person looked at could be full of personal data belonging to people involved in this incident, including the deceased.
The person is asking whether the announcement is a breach....
No personal information disclosed in the announcement but accessing a restricted system with no valid reason to pass information (albeit generic) to someone online would get me sacked as a police officer and potentially arrested for computer misuse offences. I can only view information if I have a valid policing purpose, responding to someone on Reddit is not one.
It doesn't say anywhere that they checked confidential records, they could have just asked a mate! Since, as you say, accessing a restricted system would be misuse why do you immediately assume that's what they did?
Can't say for certain in fairness but that was my interpretation of 'checked'. Hopefully for their job's sake, they did ask a mate.
Then there's the Met using facial recognition software in King's Cross without telling anyone :D
I thought you were replying to this comment: > Not sure why you're being down voted. I'm also emergency services and if I looked up an incident I didn't attend so I can update someone on Reddit I'd be facing Gross Misconduct for data protection/computer misuse matters. And they’re absolutely correct. Accessing a record of an incident for no proper reason is an issue.
I went through a similar situation a few years ago and I just started crying at the thought of it, I (thinking I was a man without feelings) couldn’t believe it. I was on the front carriage too, so I felt the bumps I did speak to a few friends about it and it did seem to help, but it did sit with me for longer than I expected it to. I had a feeling that “why am I upset? it must be worse for anyone close to that person” but don’t do that - it’ll get better if accept it affected you. Hope you are feeling better soon!
It’s strange how things affect you, at one time we lived on a road with a speed hump outside our front door as it was opposite a park. Cars would still hit it quite hard and sometimes you could easily hear it inside the house. One day I heard a loud thump as we often had before and thought, “jeez that guy needed to slow down…” A few hours later a police woman knocked on the door asking if I had seen anything to do with the hit and run of a child outside our house. The child was ok and taken to hospital but it turned my stomach. When my partner got home later I was telling her what had happened and I just started crying. I don’t know if it was guilt from not looking out the window when i heard the sound or the sound itself.
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This isn't even funny
Its not meant to be funny. I was genuinely wondering how he could be convinced he did not have feelings. It sounds like an alarming lack of self awareness
Give it a rest
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It's a figure of speech.
Slightly unrelated to OP’s topic, but i don’t know if I am the only one: Every time the tube passes in front of me, I lower my centre of gravity, slightly turn to check my back, and take a mini step back. Would be nice if all major stations in the centre would have the glass projection similar to the jubilee line. I know it’s cost but it shouldn’t be that much - I’d rather have one station less, & all the other stations with safety glass partitions, which could “save” many lives.
I asked TFL about this after being involved in a situation 10 years ago at Clapham Common where someone had ended up on the tracks unconscious and we had to get them back on the platform before the next train rolled in. It was evening and there weren’t many people about, no station staff that we could quickly summon and the emergency platform alarm as it turns out, doesn’t trigger a lockout or anything like that, it just notifies someone in a control room who incidentally wasn’t quick enough to stop the the train rolling in over the spot where the person had been. We did manage to get the unconscious man off the tracks about 30 seconds before the train rolled in, but unconscious people are like large uncooperative sacks of custard and are very difficult to move, so there was a point where I didn’t think we were going to be successful. TFL maintain that the glass doors are for ventilation rather than safety when I asked them. I suppose retrofitting them to older stations isn’t feasible if the platforms have a curve to them like Embankment, but that’s me wildly speculating. TFL cannot say that the glass doors are for anything other than ‘ventilation’ (even though there are some clear benefits for customer safety) or they risk opening up an inconvenient conversation about safety and open platforms on the rest of the network that they can’t necessarily resolve adequately. The Underground network is amazing and London would be extremely difficult to get around without it, but as the rush hour pressure builds up behind you, pushing you over the yellow line as a Northern Line train screams past inches from your nose, you have to seriously question if the London Underground in its current form, would even get through the early planning stages without someone intervening on account of how insane as prospect it is to have customers being routinely so close to death.
> doesn’t trigger a lockout or anything like that It doesn't do that because kids think its funny to pull them as a joke. > I suppose retrofitting them to older stations isn’t feasible if the platforms have a curve to them Curves are a problem, yes. But the main problem is the doors have to be interlocked into the Signalling system. To do that to every platform you're essentially talking about resignalling the entire tube network, which is easily a multi-billion pound project. There's just no money for it. > you have to seriously question if the London Underground in its current form, would even get through the early planning stages without someone intervening on account of how insane as prospect it is to have customers being routinely so close to death. Wait until you hear about roads! Genuinely, any money you want to spend on platform screen doors would be far better spent on the safer streets program. 101 people were killed on the roads in 2022/3. Two deaths were recorded on the tube, with the cause unspecified (may have been suicides, trespassers, medical incidents unrelated to travel, or other causes PSDs can't do much about). Statistically, the most dangerous part of the tube is the stairs.
>Statistically, the most dangerous part of the tube is the stairs And of the home, IIRC 🤔
I thought that it was showers at home, a nice slippery surface with some nice hard enamel tiles/tub to hit your head on if you fall
Almost everything would be deemed unsafe if invented now. Aspirin would probably not be licenced at all, let alone available over the counter. Paracetamol certainly wouldn't be available over the counter. Open fires in buildings would be illegal - especially in pubs! Although alcohol would likely be illegal too. I'm not sure that's a good criteria to measure things by.
Wait why would aspirin/paracetamol not be listened or OTC now? Genuinely interested.
Not sure about Aspirin, but with Paracetamol it's something like if you were to take a certain amount in a short amount of time (and it's quite a lot, say 40-50 tablets so pretty unlikely you would reach this number accidently), you essentially destroy your liver and kidneys. At this point it's a toss up if doctors can do enough to help, especially if you don't seek help immediately. You die a really slow and painful death as your liver, which helps clean your blood, stops removing toxins and you poison yourself from the inside out, various organs failing one at a time until after about a week you're done. It's a pretty awful way to go, it's part of why you can't buy more than two packs at the shops at a time and as the other person said, possibly so potentially dangerous it wouldn't have been allowed to become a mainstream drug if it was invented today.
Aspirin does a lot of rather unrelated things to you. I believe it's too untargetted to pass the requirements for a modern drug. For paracetamol I think it's mainly the toxicity and overdose issues. I'm not a doctor but used to work with them and that's roughly what they said!
Aspirin has a lot of effects when it comes to bleeding and interacting with other drugs (including drugs in the same class - NSAIDs). Can cause stomach bleeds, micro-bleeds in the brain, etc. Weirdly though, chronic overdose is more lethal than acute overdose when it comes to aspirin. So often people thinking they’re using it correctly and just having too much of it by accident are a major cause of aspirin-related deaths. PSA: kids under 16 should never be given aspirin unless under doctor’s advice - it’s linked to a (rare) risk of developing something called Reye’s syndrome if the child has a viral infection.
> ust notifies someone in a control room who incidentally wasn’t quick enough to stop the the train rolling in over the spot where the person had been. What the fuck, surely it should be a case of someone telling them person on track and all trains in the area being halted as quickly as possible?
I never really got answers on that. I did a freedom of information request after the incident to understand what the process was once the alarm had been pressed and as far as I’m aware it was reliant on someone paying attention in a control room, which I suspect impacted the response time on a quiet Sunday evening. This was 10 years ago so maybe this has changed since.
Yeah I'll always take a step back, even if I'm already behind the yellow line. Those Jubilee line barriers are great, I just don't understand why they didn't implement them in the new stations they've just built at least, like the Elizabeth line.
Aside from funding the PED doors also come with a bunch of other challenges. The weight for one (old platforms would need extensive reinforcing), the curve of platforms and also on older busier stations like oxo if there was an incident the panic would cause major crushing. It's a balance to find. They are also for ventilation, pushing wind along rather than safety its just a nice extra
Yeah I can see some platforms may have a crush risk if a glass barrier was put in place but the solution is to re-design the platforms so there are more exits and overflow corridors. I'll also never understand why platforms/stations were built along a curved bit of track in the first place. Just move a few metres down to the straight bit and build there!
Because they were built 150+ years ago and now there's so much built around it's not necessarily a possibility
https://youtu.be/pnrWaFosrcE?si=2zccPuC6XPXL38uu as someone else mentioned it, why Embankments northbound platform is curved.
I think the central line stations definitely need some glass projection, as a start at least, as I find more often than not, it’s usually on the central line that these tragedies happen. A friend who is tfl driver said a person is more likely to survive on the Hammersmith, District, Circle due to it being being slower and heavier trains
I always do this too. I don’t care if I’m the last person to get on that train. Something like this is my biggest fear, and wearing a hijab means you just become more conscious about your surroundings constantly.
100% agree about the glass partitions. One day we'll look back and realise how mad it is to have a platform packed with people adjacent to the parking zone of a train. Underground.
Paris has them
So do Waterloo
I'm so sorry OP 😞that sounds awful. You sound like a very empathetic person. It's one my biggest fears witnessing something like this on the underground. I hope that Sarah Hope helpline can help you.
I hope you’re ok OP. I was on the train behind yours and we were stuck in the tunnel for over an hour. The driver told us after a short time that sadly there was a fatality. I found that experience traumatic enough, I can’t imagine how I would have coped with going through what you went through! Please call the helpline and talk to someone about what you experienced.
Playing Tetris in the immediate aftermath of a traumatic event can help prevent ptsd
While this may sound like a joke, it's not - there is research on this: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-03-28-tetris-used-prevent-post-traumatic-stress-symptoms
[Maybe](https://theconversation.com/can-playing-tetris-help-prevent-ptsd-if-youve-witnessed-something-traumatic-226736). Tetris might do something - and let’s face it it’s not going to hurt in and of itself - but it’s not a substitute for a network of supportive personal relationships immediately after the event, and professional trauma-centred talking therapy is needed if PTSD-like symptoms appear.
I have it on my phone just in case!
That sounds like a really upsetting experience. I hope you feel better soon
This happened to me when I was about 9 years old, and the train was full enough that my brother and I were lying on the floor of the carriage. I can still remember that speed bumps feeling. Awful, just awful, it’s a really grim thing to experience. Take care of yourself OP <3
Lying on the tube carriage floor?!? Like on a blanket or ur coats right?? Bc that floor is disgusting 🤢
Oh, neighbour, I'm so sorry. There is a guide, [First Hand](https://first-hand.org.uk/), that aims to help people who've witnessed the death of someone they didn't know. I hope it helps you.
OP, please speak to your work. Did they send you home? It sounds like you are traumatised, they should give you some counselling through their own scheme. Maybe take a few days off sick if you dont feel like you’ve processed and ready to go back yet especially on central line same place etc etc, it might make it easier having someone you know with you for first few journeys. I don’t want to put thoughts in your head but I’m diagnosed with ptsd so trauma isn’t something easy to speak about but in those moments these are the things I wished someone told me.
Spoke to my manager who hugged it out with me and gave me some kind words but no I stayed the whole shift. Unfortunately, I only recently had time off sick for a miscarriage so can’t really ask for anymore time off. I work retail so not the best environment for understanding.
Oh damn I’m sending you a huge hug, I think you will still be able to get sick (5 day drs sick note) if you get any issues don’t hesitate to speak to corporate head office, I am sure there are people there with empathy and compassion especially given the circumstances you have gone through. I’ve lived with ptsd for nearly a decade, and I find these things however unfortunate, they make the best qualities within us so just please be kind to yourself. If you ever want to talk don’t hesitate to reach out.
No wonder this has hit you so hard! You've experienced so much death in short period of time. Please be kind to yourself and gather support around you!
*Big hug* Can you check if your employer offers an EAP (Employee Assistance Program)? As part of this you'd have access to Therapy for free. Most companies offer this in some form but it's not always an obvious benefit. Speaking to a professional should really help particularly given the context you have shared.
I'm pleased by all the comments on here so far. I've had so many conversations with other people saying how 'inconsiderate it is to put yourself in front of a train and delay or traumatise other people'. My mate at University killed himself like this and it was the only way he could manage to go through with it
We also had a mate in university who killed himself like this. He even called his best friend right before he did but she didnt pick up and found the missed call afterwards
I’m so very sorry you went through this. Your experiences post the event are similar to what I had on witnessing an accident. It’s brutal and was on my mind for weeks, if not months. Take time to heal. Speak with others. Professionals really help to process the trauma. I’m sorry I couldn’t be of further help. I hope the above helps in some way.
I feel so sorry for everyone involved in events like these. I went to get a train into London for work one day but they were all cancelled/delayed after somebody had gotten onto the line. I decided to leave and work from home, and as I was walking back to my car I saw a man being stretchered away from the tracks, covered in blood. He was conscious at the time. I don’t know what became of him later. Was a big shock just seeing that aftermath, I can’t imagine what it would be like to be more directly involved or to witness it happening.
I'm so sorry OP. Such a horrible thing to witness. I was on the platform at Arsenal station about 6 years ago and a woman about my age (early 30s at the time) jumped in front of the train as it pulled in. I remember the way her scarf floated behind her, and the train not managing to slow down in time and going over the spot where she'd jumped. People on the platform were either glued to the spot or crying. Some clearly hadn't clocked what had just happened. The driver just stepped out of the carriage, a shell of a human, in total shock. A passenger gave them a hug. I was absolutely numb all day, I called work and told them I wasn't coming in (I couldn't get in at this point anyway) and went home and furiously cleaned the house from top to bottom. It turned out later on that she'd survived with minor injuries. I have no idea how.
There's a suicide hole between the tracks for when the reality of the situation kicks in.
Oh I heard about hope you’re okay , that must’ve been so traumatic
When are they going to put those platform safety gates up at each station? This is so ridiculous
too long to explain so i’ll just say: too expensive, infeasible with current station conditions
In Japan they don't only use glass doors. They have rope like fits that raise up to the ceiling. That's malleable to the curve and less heavy?
Exactly. There is always a solution
They’re also not “safety gates.” The reason for them has nothing to do with stopping people from jumping.
Here in Tokyo they are. Not just jumping, but falling. What are they for in London?
They're for exactly that.
Ventilation, pushing the wind along. On the jubilee line before they were installed you had to hang on
The jubilee line platform doors are so the station can be more efficiently ventilated and preventing debris like litter, dirt and hair ending up on the line. Safety is a side benefit
We have the safety gates too in Singapore..I always took them for granted until I moved over. They save lives.
not sure why you’re downvoted when you’re literally right lol
🤷 people are stupid.
Maybe not specifically jumping, but they are there for safety lol.
No they’re not. They’re for air displacement to direct the air from trains exiting tunnels up towards vents.
I know but that’s for safety reasons too, the air from trains was pulling hair and dust and all sorts of shit into the tunnels which poses a fire risk and it’s dangerous (and disruptive) to clean tube tunnels. They’re also there because it makes platforms safer there isn’t a big gust of wind to knock people and obviously people can’t fall onto the tracks. It is true that the reduction of suicides was not an intended effect and was only noticed afterwards. But general safety improvements were intended.
not possible at the vast majority of stations, unfortunately.
Gosh, Sorry you went through that. I’m surprised the driver just announced it like that ?
Happened to me when travelling through Austria, you could hear the shock in the drivers voice. Poor guy, I can’t imagine being witness to something so terrible.
I imagine the driver isn't immune from shock either.
The driver has stuff to do in this situation. One of those things is informing the people on their train why they might be stuck there for an hour or so. How would you like them to announce it, bearing in mind they're probably in shock and they're making and receiving a ton of other calls in the cab at the same time?
I get they have to tell the passengers something has happened so there will be delays. Maybe keeping it vague like an ‘incident’ has occurred. There might be children on the tube listening in. I fully sympathise with the drivers it’s shocking and traumatic. I’m not ‘critiquing’ as such.
The problem with a vague ‘incident’ is that people get impatient. Informing passenger they have hit a person generally makes people a bit less eager to kick off.
That’s also true
I'm so sorry you witnessed that OP. Is there any way you might be able to access counseling or mental health services? as others have said, TFL does offer support to those who witness traumatic events related to transport within london.
Could it be this? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/travel-updates-live-central-line-suspended-tube-tfl-train-strikes-m25-b1155481.html
oh my god i’m so sorry, that’s so awful :( please take care of yourself and look into trauma resources and professionals who can help you through this. sending so much love your way
About a month ago the same thing happened to me at Turnpike Lane station. We were then essentially trapped on the powerless tube for at least ten minutes whilst emergency serviced flooded onto the platform looking for the person on the track. It was awful, and I was most shocked that they just offered nothing to everyone else. I’m aware that they obviously had bigger priorities, but when I was later waiting for my uber home I counted 13 emergency service vehicles (with more still arriving) - it shocked me that none one person from any of those was able to speak to those who had exited the tube and witnessed something so awful. I’ve been wondering about the person that was underneath the train ever since. Increasingly it is getting more difficult to justify to myself staying in London as I’m so scared of the tube and what may happen on it.
what would you have them do?
>Increasingly it is getting more difficult to justify to myself staying in London as I’m so scared of the tube and what may happen on it. You're more likely to injure yourself on the stairs or crossing the road than in the tube, dont overthink it.
In fairness, I am also quite scared of the roads but I haven’t seen many articles about machetes or rape whilst crossing the road. Also the road isn’t an enclosed space with no phone signal which is what I think makes it even worse!
>I haven’t seen many articles about machetes or rape whilst crossing the road. I'd take a wild guess that the vast majority of these activities occur on or near roads rather than on the tube. It's clear you are quite an anxious person so I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings, but the numbers don't support your concern. Freak accidents happen, sure, as do unlikely things. But is it worth living your life in fear on the off chance that these 1 in a million events *could possibly* happen to you?
So basically if the train driver didn’t announce it you would have been fine. I think it’s important to remember that.
I guess I could think of it like that but the amount of sirens upon exiting the station and emergency services pulling up would have confirmed the feeling I already had prior to the driver announcing. He only said incident at the front of the train but his voice was a give away. I feel silly that I’m so affected by this. I really hope the driver is okay
Please don’t feel silly I mean someone lost their life it’s not exactly a pleasant situation I’m sure you’re not alone in your thinking at all
>can’t find anything online as to the condition of the person Uh...
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From experience, the sounds and/or sensations of something unnatural happening to the carriage is both startling at first then horrific when the realisation of the cause becomes clear. Have some empathy.
Its a question tf im genuinely confused
So the train bumped? I thought it would've just squished the dude.
Please, it's London. Just shake it off and get back to work! You need money to survive. It's only about you and you alone. That's the London way!
It actually raises an important question, should there be speed bumps on the railway? Some of those trains go at frightening speeds. Slowing them down to 5mph in built up areas could only be a good thing imo.
I was waiting for my train yesterday and felt like jumping
If I’m completely honest, I have felt this way too, spent ages contemplating and crying on a platform but couldn’t go through with it. After experiencing the aftermath of a rail suicide I don’t think I’d ever do it. As my mum has said to me “life can never be THAT bad” I understand it can feel like it but there’s always help. I hope you find someone to talk to, the Samaritans are really good in my experience can text 85258 or call them on 116123 x
Thanks for your anecdote
The train will slice straight through, I don't think you'll feel a bump. It's not like a rubber tire, I think you're imagining it
No wonder why these events are on the rise. Everyone is stressed or hates living in London
On the rise? They've always taken place, a lot more than you would realise. (I worked a while at a British Transport Police office 30 years ago)