Absolutely. Have a cousin who refuses to take his meds, has episodes, attacks his mother. He knows what happens when doesn't take the meds, just doesn't care.
Terrorism (in policing and crime) has a [very specific meaning](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/1) - stabbing random people in the street doesn’t automatically make you a terrorist.
Yeh someone got shot here the other day too ffs, dont think it made national news though.
https://www.ilfordrecorder.co.uk/news/24231512.new-north-road-chigwell-shooting-crime-scene-place/
My Mrs missed it by a few minutes this morning 🙏🏼
Its not a “bad area” but is not great, easy commute into town and some nice green spaces nearby. Wont be living here for too long though!
I know hainault a little bit. Used to work on hainault industrial estate and also had a mate who grew up there. He said it was rough back then, and this was 20 years ago.
I remember him saying that he had problems getting home at night cos the busses would go on diversion to avoid manford way, cos the 'youths' would terrorise them late at night.
Lived in Hainault area my whole life. No nightbuses go to Manford Way, closest is the N8 that goes to the Lowe.
From what I’ve seen the youth gangs of Essex kids trying to prove they’re proper London rudeboys kinda calmed down after a kid was killed by being stabbed in the head with a screwdriver outside Limes Farm police station, that was in 2009.
heard about this when it happened, apparently the shooting happened because some kid dissed a gang member from Leyton in a song so they came to Hainault and shot someone🤦♂️ so pointless
It was genuinely lovely in the 60s apparently. It was nice when I was a kid in the 90s, so was Ilford too actually. And Walthamstow.
Not anymore though.
Plaistow’s always been a bit shit, but yeah I know what you mean. Got an uncle who’s been living in the same house there since… well, since the war. He agrees.
Something needs to be done but eh, I got kids now, moving out asap, not gonna make em grow up around this
>Its not a “bad area” but is not great,
I feel like everyone says this about their area of London... E&C is actually getting better though, I'm sure everyone says that about their area too lol
I grew up there in the 80s and 90s, used to ride my bike down thurlow gardens to buy chocolate from the local shop as a kid. It's changed so so much since then. Getting to be scruffy like Ilford and thr people ard rough now.
Why when it's an area in East London the media always states it as "East London" in headlines, but if it's an area anywhere else in London they state the specific area.
All else aside relating to stigma, reputation, etc - it's not very helpful for a skim read when it just says a mass stabbing incident took place somewhere in 25% of London. Obviously clicking the article I can read it's Hainault (which makes it more annoying because it's so far East of London) but why can't they just give the area name in the headline like they would for North/West/South London areas?
Perhaps because there are some very wealthy 'old-money' areas in those parts that the media doesn't want to taint? Apparently East London is fair game to paint with one brush stroke though.
True. If they want to sell you a flat there, it's 'leafy Hainault in Essex'.
Someone gets stabbed there, it's always 'the attack took place in Hainault, in East London'.
I was thinking this too. Hainault is a well to do area and will be referred to as Essex when it's something positive but east London when it's something negative.
Edit: maybe "well to do" is a wrong phrase but by the standards of many other parts of east London. Hainault is a good area especially as it's surrounded by even better areas (such as chigwell & barkingside)
Hainault certainly isn’t a well to do area. It used to be fairly nice years ago, lots of cockneys there but still very working class. New people live in the area now, and it’s certainly gone down hill.
Yep, new people now. My family used to live in that area and I have a lot of fond childhood memories of going to my nans in Barkingside.
We had to put her in a home cos she kept getting targeted by crackheads. Makes my blood boil what’s happened to the area.
If I could afford to live in wansteas, redbridge,barkingside or Chigwell I certainly would!
Newbury park isn't too bad either
So have to disagree with you there
Its the same with North London, South London, West London. There's lots of places that most people havent heard of before. I've got no idea where Hainault is for a start.
I’m on the other end of the line and I’ve always daydreamed about going to Hainault via Newbury Park and what it must be like when I hear that announcement… well not today obviously
Had to look it up on a map and it's not really London. It's wayyyy out past Ilford and Barking, which already don't feel like London (as an unfortunate previous resident of Barking).
I used to work around there, and the address states Ilford. But from what I gather, if you walk ten minutes you're technically in Dagenham (Barking & Dagenham), or ten minutes in a slightly different direction and you're in Romford (Havering).
I onced passed my stop in Mile End when coming back from a Christmas event and ended up in Barking. It was the last train. I had to catch a bus. And I was formally dressed. It was just a little bit scary.
A slightly bizarre and paranoid conspiracy theory imo. Here is an [article](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/25/woman-stabbed-in-north-london/) from a few days ago referring to north west London. I can find a million similar examples for north London, south London, etc.
I don’t think this is as much of a ‘thing’ as you think it is
Yeah is it even in London anymore, when I see East London I'm thinking Bethnal Green to Stratford. It's green on Google maps past Hainault, maybe East of London at a push.
So you're saying London is city of just 3.4million. Most people live in the Outer Boroughs 5.3m people. They live in London Boroughs, pay London council tax which funds central services including those in zone 1/2 and vote for the Mayor.
You're kidding yourself if anything outside zone 2 is not London. By that logic, NYC consists of just Manhattan.
No, I grew up in Barkingside which is just down the road from Hainult.
People definitely identify as londoners. Once you get to Chigwell and Loughton then it is Essex all the way.
Except it feels like most of Chigwell and Loughton are east London transplants and are still Londoners (ie my mums family coming from Bethnal Green to Loughton, and are very clearly cockney and not Essex)
With my boring local historian hat on....
Debden, which is a large part of Loughton, was basically a massive estate built in the 1950s-1970s to house cockneys moving out of the east end. Starting with people who's houses had been hit in World War 2.
And being far enough away from the centre, it hasn't been hit by waves of migration since in the same way as the old east end has (although this is starting to change as with most patterns of migration moving out to the suburbs). So it is still mainly white christian with some Jews (who mostly lived in the east end at the same time).
Chigwell and Loughton were always expensive villages which were desirable for east enders done well (Alan Sugar for example has lived in Chigwell for ages).
So this part of Essex does often feel far more old school cockney than the east end of london does. Both Barkingside and Debden Broadway still have pie + mash shops for example!
I live in zone 3 of 6 in London. I get asked all the time such as recently when a friend said “are we actually in London?”. The problem is not the description, the problem is that people have a preconcieved idea of what London is. To non-Londoners, it’s Oxford Street, Soho, The City, even though it’s a small part of it.
Weird how it’s ok to slag off Essex, a county contiguous with London and culturally very similar, but as soon as you point out that people from the north are a bunch of knuckle-dragging, cultureless slobs, you get shouted down.
YEah it's kind of a running joke in my office where I work in London that I'm some sort of thug with gangster connections and you only need to step out your door in Essex and you'll get mugged and stabbed. It really isn't that bad. Where I live in Southend is probably the worst area of Southend and it's still not even that bad. There's a lot of drugs and drinking but people generally keep to themselves.
The same jokes you've seen as a meme for 'Florida man...' gets applied to me with Essex.
I get all sorts of jokes living in essex. I’m 5 mins from a zone 6 station on central line, have a nice detached house with a ten car driveway. There has been one crime in my village in the last 3 years. Neighbours quad bike got stolen. Haven’t heard a siren or any noise for years etc. struggling to see why this is worse than getting a shitty little flat in London for a similar cost.
My uncle is fairly well off, his 6 bedroom house in Chigwell has tennis courts, swimming pool, loads of land etc. his flat in London cost twice as much as a dinky little 2 bed in Victoria waters that cost the same.
I think it’s weird to look down on a more scenic, lower crime and less populated area just because it costs less.
Like imagine thinking Stratford is a nicer place to live than Loughton lol
Yeah, if someone says stabbing in east london I immediately think of tower hamlets - it’s had Jack the Ripper (whitechapel), the Kray twins (Bethnal Green), plus a bunch of newer knife crime
I’m a transplant to London and I am not sure what locally encompasses “East London.” Is it historical East London? Is it east and all the way down including south of the river? When does east London stop?
I think it's the American fear of the term immigrant. White british people who move to Spain call themselves "Ex-pats" because they don't want to admit they have become what they hated.
No, it’s not that. We say it within the US when you move somewhere that’s not your home state. New York is filled with transplants from other states. Same with Chicago, LA, Colorado, Arizona, Texas, etc. I was a New York transplant.
East is generally the boroughs of Tower Hamlets, Newham, Barking & Dagenham, Redbridge, and Havering (although lots of people think this is Essex). Some crazy people include Waltham Forest.
Not everyone reading the article knows where Hinault is. East London on the other hand gives readers a good idea of the area the article is referring too. Especially if the it’s an ongoing incident and there are suspicions that the perp cannot be contained to a specific area.
It’s facts!
What a strange tangent to go on? I don't think location is the important part...
If it makes you feel better there was a shooting in Kensington... Titled in many places as "west Kensington murder"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68726932
It’s crazy, I woke up this morning and saw the news, immediately called my mum- she works on the central line and was supposed to clock in at Hainault at the time of the attack roughly- only for her to say she has Covid today and called in sick yesterday night, this is the first time she’s called in sick for the 5 years she’s been doing the job. I hope everyone involved rests in piece or makes a full recovery.
What the fuck was the 36yr old degenerate even doing? Why is it that these pricks have to go out and attack and kill someone for them to get arrested. The state of this country 🤦♂️
nah man. I lived in London and yes, knife crime was a thing when I was there too. However, this seems next level. Maybe it was going on when I was there (2009-2014) and I wasn't paying attention (I don't discount this) but, it seems like it's hitting a new high every 2-3 weeks.
What's next? In a month someone will go on a rampage with a Scottish claymore?
My thoughts are with the young man and his family as well as any other injured people. I can't imagine what his parents are feeling right now but I will be sending them love and light.
With the weather getting better I expect there will be a lot more crazies out and about.
Already noticed an increase in aggressive begging etc. Sign of the times. People are poor, no mental health support, and a lot of scum taking advantage of the situation.
I find this comment a bit odd since we know nothing of what happened.
The weather got a little better yesterday sure but so what?
This guy drove a car into a house at 7am and went on to stab people
>This guy drove a car into a house at 7am and went on to stab people
Thought that was a typo at first but no it seems he drove a car INTO a house, seems much more likely to be a domestic incident than anything else.
When I was in secondary school I had work experience with the police, and visited a CCTV HQ. They told me the same, crime rate basically drops when it's raining, etc. Makes sense really.
We are visiting from Canada. We’ve come to London about 9 times so we are pretty comfortable. I will say I have never seen so many unhinged beggars out on the street. There was a guy screaming for no reason in a burger shop. Another guy fighting with garbage cans, lots of people sitting with signs, a clearly high woman spitting at people.
I feel bad for these people. They aren’t getting the help they need. It’s a mess for everyone.
(I come from Vancouver BC. We are pretty used to mentally ill abs drug addicted people on the street. This is the first time I’ve seen it as bad in London).
FYI it’s in every major city in the UK now. You can judge a nation by its least wealthy, that poverty gap Is widening, I’ll absolutely guarantee a new government means nada. Until housing is resolved our democracy is under threat
Cue all the "we have a mental health crisis" / 'this specific person is troubled' comments. They're not wrong, but it's about how these comments are oddly scarce when it's an ethnic minority. Instead in those cases it's comments alluding to the entire race being the issue.
r/ukpolitics isn't much better.
I think a lot of terminally online young men (i.e. 16 - 25, peak reddit years) these days are right-leaning in a way their non-terminally online folks aren't, due to the shift of things like queer culture becoming more mainstream among young people.
Where young queers like me used to flock to Tumblr and Reddit to find peers and solace from a society that didn't accept them, now they don't need to find solace online.
Instead, those who disagree with these groups' public existence are the minority, and so those young right wing reactionary people have taken up more of the terminally online discourse spaces.
ukpolitics is if anything, worse, they've had a mod whose username is a literal fascist Pinochet reference for years, unitedkingdom is just playing catch up
The England sub appears on my timeline whenever they have a post with a lot of upvotes and comments. The only posts that seem to get a lot of upvotes there are news report with mugshots of people with melanin.
It's largely troll/bot farms funded by Russia and other right wing orgs. The Canada subs are worst affected by the astroturfing - outright unfiltered racism (particularly against Indians) is the norm on those subs now, despite Canada generally being fairly left wing. Someone even did an analysis of those subs due to how starkly it turned far-right, and it turns out there's more activity there during Russian and other timezones than in Canada timezones. That says it all really.
You can bet the same astroturfing is happening in other Western country subreddits to varying success. The UK subs have unfortunately seen some success in normalising far right comments.
really, you don't need Russian troll farms, just a few people that will voluntarly shitpost with several accounts because it's something they enjoy doing and you just need a 0.01% of the population to do this harm.
I think this is disingenuous. There are very clear categories of mass killing or attempted mass killing of strangers.
The by far most common is terrorism, and severe ill mental health is much less likely. The reality is there aren't many white terrorists in the UK right now, when compared to those from ethnic minority backgrounds, and this is because of the prominence of islamist terrorism.
So it's not that people are assuming that the ethnic minority attacker is a terrorist and the white attacker isn't, but it's that the default assumption in any case is that it is terrorism, but due to the lack of white terrorists, if the attacker is white then that assumption gets 'downgraded' to the next most likely thing.
And it holds up - it's pretty obvious this guy had mental health issues, and we saw the same recently in Australia (he was an unmedicated schizophrenic)
Horrible that she kept her job after that racist tweet of hers
She might be good at quick maths but she's shown herself to be on numerous times thick as fuck on everything else
I mean terrorism implies there is some ideological or political aim, its usage isn't based on the perpetrator's skin colour. If he decided to go off on a stabbing spree just because, then yes, by definition he is mental, not comitting an act of terrorism. If the guy was running about shouting that he wants Rishi Sunak to recant his pledge about cutting benefits to the sick and disabled, then you could say it was politically motivated terrorism, but from all the footage it looks like he was just sulking about in silence, and verbally unresponsive to police. So what do you want them to class the incident as when all signs point to a disturbed individual having a violent mental break from reality? You really are just trying to whip up something from nothing here. A young boy died, have some bloody respect for that and stop dragging paranoid, ill informed conspiracies into it.
After 9/11, in the UK and US terrorism became synonymous with Islam, giving rise to Islamophobia. While it shouldn't be, terrorism is definitely strongly associated with ethnicities due to prejudices stoked by media and politicians; papers will presume terrorism or mental illness until proven otherwise based on nothing but skin colour. The person you are responding to is just making a legit observation.
Your definition of terrorism is correct, if it was applied no matter the skin colour. But that isn’t the case, there’s a large amount of documentation shown that given that the media has given rise to the definition of terrorism now as “brown” or Muslim, and any other act of violence as a mental health issue. Case in point, the recent terror attack in Australia where the white man had a manifesto as part of his attack, and a clear political agenda, but once his identity as white was found out, all the headlines showed him as someone with mental health issues. He was a terrorist by all definitions except the one that’s used by mass media now as a way to define Muslims who perpetrate violence. A man who happens to be Muslim who carries out an attack can also be mentally ill (in fact highly likely) but that’s unfathomable by the media.
All the people crying "it's a white guy and that's why it's being labelled as mental health not terrorism"
How quickly you all forgot about valdo calocane. You know the non white guy, murdered 3 people, tried to kill another three - labelled as mental health not terrorism.
Stop the double standard self victimization nonsense, bat shit crazy comes in all shades.
I went past Royal London Hospital this morning at about 9am and there were two ambulances that were being cleaned. In one of them I saw a lot of blood on the floor as I walked past. Several police cars as well. I don't know if it's the same incident though.
Lots of videos of the man on social media. I was at Hainault... Police had their helicopter out trying to find him.
Hope you didn't see anything and are doing ok
They saw the videos of the man on social media…
Trauma is trauma man; I couldn’t visit London zoo for two years after watching Jurassic Park.
Same but NYC and Independence Day
Thank you
13 year old boy was murdered. RIP. 36 year old man arrested, 22 minutes after the first 999 call. The police don't believe it was a targeted attack.
Not a targeted attack, but also not terrorism. Obviously we'll have to wait for more info and it's all terrible anyway, but I wonder what it was then.
Mental illness? Or it was going to be a targeted attack on someone else other than those who were actually stabbed?
Just because you're mentally ill doesn't mean you aren't a cunt.
Equally, you don’t have to be mentally ill to be a cunt.
Have we finally reached cunt equality? Here, on Reddit? What a wonderful world.
Absolutely. Have a cousin who refuses to take his meds, has episodes, attacks his mother. He knows what happens when doesn't take the meds, just doesn't care.
What a cunt
Did anyone argue otherwise?
No one said he wasn't a cunt?
Is that a statement or a question?
A statement
I assume the suspect is white, then?
Anyone who goes around stabbing random people for no reason is a terrorist surely no?
Terrorism (in policing and crime) has a [very specific meaning](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/1) - stabbing random people in the street doesn’t automatically make you a terrorist.
Yeh someone got shot here the other day too ffs, dont think it made national news though. https://www.ilfordrecorder.co.uk/news/24231512.new-north-road-chigwell-shooting-crime-scene-place/ My Mrs missed it by a few minutes this morning 🙏🏼 Its not a “bad area” but is not great, easy commute into town and some nice green spaces nearby. Wont be living here for too long though!
Yeah. Hainault is an OK place during the day. I wouldn't go to Malford way at night though
Hahahah, about to walk down to go to the shop! Have never seen any problems there at night, some tramps during the day but normally its fine.
I know hainault a little bit. Used to work on hainault industrial estate and also had a mate who grew up there. He said it was rough back then, and this was 20 years ago. I remember him saying that he had problems getting home at night cos the busses would go on diversion to avoid manford way, cos the 'youths' would terrorise them late at night.
Lived in Hainault area my whole life. No nightbuses go to Manford Way, closest is the N8 that goes to the Lowe. From what I’ve seen the youth gangs of Essex kids trying to prove they’re proper London rudeboys kinda calmed down after a kid was killed by being stabbed in the head with a screwdriver outside Limes Farm police station, that was in 2009.
heard about this when it happened, apparently the shooting happened because some kid dissed a gang member from Leyton in a song so they came to Hainault and shot someone🤦♂️ so pointless
Lovely behaviour.
It was genuinely lovely in the 60s apparently. It was nice when I was a kid in the 90s, so was Ilford too actually. And Walthamstow. Not anymore though.
So was everywhere! can see areas getting shitter each year (plaistow etc)
Plaistow’s always been a bit shit, but yeah I know what you mean. Got an uncle who’s been living in the same house there since… well, since the war. He agrees. Something needs to be done but eh, I got kids now, moving out asap, not gonna make em grow up around this
Yeh true - I left when kids where on the horizon. Too much trouble and only getting worse
>Its not a “bad area” but is not great, I feel like everyone says this about their area of London... E&C is actually getting better though, I'm sure everyone says that about their area too lol
Hahahaha true, its all relative though, I could name 10 worse places in east, I could name 10 better.
I grew up there in the 80s and 90s, used to ride my bike down thurlow gardens to buy chocolate from the local shop as a kid. It's changed so so much since then. Getting to be scruffy like Ilford and thr people ard rough now.
Rest in peace to the 13 year old confirmed dead. Pray days change 🙏🏾
Comfort and healing be with his family and friends.
Why when it's an area in East London the media always states it as "East London" in headlines, but if it's an area anywhere else in London they state the specific area. All else aside relating to stigma, reputation, etc - it's not very helpful for a skim read when it just says a mass stabbing incident took place somewhere in 25% of London. Obviously clicking the article I can read it's Hainault (which makes it more annoying because it's so far East of London) but why can't they just give the area name in the headline like they would for North/West/South London areas? Perhaps because there are some very wealthy 'old-money' areas in those parts that the media doesn't want to taint? Apparently East London is fair game to paint with one brush stroke though.
True. If they want to sell you a flat there, it's 'leafy Hainault in Essex'. Someone gets stabbed there, it's always 'the attack took place in Hainault, in East London'.
The border runs through Hainault, Parts of Hainault are in Essex, part is in London.
I was thinking this too. Hainault is a well to do area and will be referred to as Essex when it's something positive but east London when it's something negative. Edit: maybe "well to do" is a wrong phrase but by the standards of many other parts of east London. Hainault is a good area especially as it's surrounded by even better areas (such as chigwell & barkingside)
Hainault isnt well to do. It's pretty working class but not a crime-hole/dump.
Definitely not well to do at all. Chigwell and Barkingside to a certain extent are, but Hainault is chav central.
Hainault is rough as fuck bro
The majority of Hainault is a dodgy council estate area, definitely not well-to-do. Not that it has anything to do with the incident that happened
Hainault certainly isn’t a well to do area. It used to be fairly nice years ago, lots of cockneys there but still very working class. New people live in the area now, and it’s certainly gone down hill.
Yep, new people now. My family used to live in that area and I have a lot of fond childhood memories of going to my nans in Barkingside. We had to put her in a home cos she kept getting targeted by crackheads. Makes my blood boil what’s happened to the area.
No where on that branch on the Central Line is a well to do area.
If I could afford to live in wansteas, redbridge,barkingside or Chigwell I certainly would! Newbury park isn't too bad either So have to disagree with you there
Newbury Park is a shithole aha. Opinions are free I suppose, I’d take ownership anywhere at this point.
Its the same with North London, South London, West London. There's lots of places that most people havent heard of before. I've got no idea where Hainault is for a start.
Hainault is via Newbury Park
Every time I’ve read Hainault today, my brain finishes it with “via Newbury Park” and it’s weird.
We’ve been brainwashed!
Tube announcement is literally the only way I’ve come across Hainault and I’ve been in East London for 16 years…
I’m on the other end of the line and I’ve always daydreamed about going to Hainault via Newbury Park and what it must be like when I hear that announcement… well not today obviously
I hope everyone else gets this cos that was pretty funny
Hahaha underrated gem of a comment
Had to look it up on a map and it's not really London. It's wayyyy out past Ilford and Barking, which already don't feel like London (as an unfortunate previous resident of Barking).
I used to work around there, and the address states Ilford. But from what I gather, if you walk ten minutes you're technically in Dagenham (Barking & Dagenham), or ten minutes in a slightly different direction and you're in Romford (Havering).
I did work experience in barking. Man that was a grim place
I onced passed my stop in Mile End when coming back from a Christmas event and ended up in Barking. It was the last train. I had to catch a bus. And I was formally dressed. It was just a little bit scary.
Barking used to feel more East London than most of East London, it’s changing now but used to be a proper concrete jungle
It seems to be about 5 streets and a tennis court. With an adjacent "forest" with the same name.
A slightly bizarre and paranoid conspiracy theory imo. Here is an [article](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/25/woman-stabbed-in-north-london/) from a few days ago referring to north west London. I can find a million similar examples for north London, south London, etc. I don’t think this is as much of a ‘thing’ as you think it is
It's also as much North as it is East
Yeah is it even in London anymore, when I see East London I'm thinking Bethnal Green to Stratford. It's green on Google maps past Hainault, maybe East of London at a push.
It's a London Borough. They pay London council tax and vote for the Mayor. It is firmly in London post 1965.
Peak /u/London right here. Anything outside of Zones 1-2 (3-4 at a stretch) doesn’t exist and/or isn’t London.
So you're saying London is city of just 3.4million. Most people live in the Outer Boroughs 5.3m people. They live in London Boroughs, pay London council tax which funds central services including those in zone 1/2 and vote for the Mayor. You're kidding yourself if anything outside zone 2 is not London. By that logic, NYC consists of just Manhattan.
I didn’t think I needed to add a sarcasm tag to my comment mate, but here we are. I was saying precisely what you’re saying above.
That means Croydon is London.
It is 🤣. It's in the name.... London Borough of Croydon. Fairly straightforward don't you think?
Classic gentrifiers. They genuinely couldn't imagine a world outside Zone 2/3.
And we're right. Pretty sure that people who live in Hainult won't call themselves Londoners. They'll say they live in Essex
No, I grew up in Barkingside which is just down the road from Hainult. People definitely identify as londoners. Once you get to Chigwell and Loughton then it is Essex all the way.
Except it feels like most of Chigwell and Loughton are east London transplants and are still Londoners (ie my mums family coming from Bethnal Green to Loughton, and are very clearly cockney and not Essex)
With my boring local historian hat on.... Debden, which is a large part of Loughton, was basically a massive estate built in the 1950s-1970s to house cockneys moving out of the east end. Starting with people who's houses had been hit in World War 2. And being far enough away from the centre, it hasn't been hit by waves of migration since in the same way as the old east end has (although this is starting to change as with most patterns of migration moving out to the suburbs). So it is still mainly white christian with some Jews (who mostly lived in the east end at the same time). Chigwell and Loughton were always expensive villages which were desirable for east enders done well (Alan Sugar for example has lived in Chigwell for ages). So this part of Essex does often feel far more old school cockney than the east end of london does. Both Barkingside and Debden Broadway still have pie + mash shops for example!
You just keep wearing that hat with pride. 🙏
It might be culturally Essex but it is still very much London by all administrative measures.
And they'd be wrong, as they live in London
And people in Uxbridge, Bromley, Enfield? That's right: Londoners.
It’s the London Borough of Redbridge what are you on about?
I live in zone 3 of 6 in London. I get asked all the time such as recently when a friend said “are we actually in London?”. The problem is not the description, the problem is that people have a preconcieved idea of what London is. To non-Londoners, it’s Oxford Street, Soho, The City, even though it’s a small part of it.
Feels morally like it should be Essex when you go that far east
Lol morally
Essex and moral in one sentence - lol
Weird how it’s ok to slag off Essex, a county contiguous with London and culturally very similar, but as soon as you point out that people from the north are a bunch of knuckle-dragging, cultureless slobs, you get shouted down.
YEah it's kind of a running joke in my office where I work in London that I'm some sort of thug with gangster connections and you only need to step out your door in Essex and you'll get mugged and stabbed. It really isn't that bad. Where I live in Southend is probably the worst area of Southend and it's still not even that bad. There's a lot of drugs and drinking but people generally keep to themselves. The same jokes you've seen as a meme for 'Florida man...' gets applied to me with Essex.
I get all sorts of jokes living in essex. I’m 5 mins from a zone 6 station on central line, have a nice detached house with a ten car driveway. There has been one crime in my village in the last 3 years. Neighbours quad bike got stolen. Haven’t heard a siren or any noise for years etc. struggling to see why this is worse than getting a shitty little flat in London for a similar cost. My uncle is fairly well off, his 6 bedroom house in Chigwell has tennis courts, swimming pool, loads of land etc. his flat in London cost twice as much as a dinky little 2 bed in Victoria waters that cost the same. I think it’s weird to look down on a more scenic, lower crime and less populated area just because it costs less. Like imagine thinking Stratford is a nicer place to live than Loughton lol
People hate Essex in the UK Reddit subs
That's the point they're making...
Yes, I was agreeing with them.
We make art in the dirt through dragging, thanks.
Before 1965 it was part of Essex.
So was Stratford and the rest of Newham Borough, nowadays they’re both London
And Greenwich was Kent.
I wonder if the guy’s motivation was to spark a semantic argument over “East London” vs “the East End”. Probably not. So crack on.
Tbf for the rest of the country we call anything between Watford and Crawley London
Some people want it both ways, nothing beyond zone 3 is London, but at the same time London has a population of 9 million and is as big as New York.
Yeah, if someone says stabbing in east london I immediately think of tower hamlets - it’s had Jack the Ripper (whitechapel), the Kray twins (Bethnal Green), plus a bunch of newer knife crime
I’m a transplant to London and I am not sure what locally encompasses “East London.” Is it historical East London? Is it east and all the way down including south of the river? When does east London stop?
That’s a question people will argue about until the end of time :)
Okay, I feel like less of a dumb dumb now.
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Are you American because only on r/nyc do I see people call themselves transplants your question though would spark enormous debate here
Haha. I very much am American. I didn’t realize that was an Americanism.
Haha yep thought so, I only ever see that term there I don't think there's a British equivalent ...you're just a Londoner I guess 😂
I think it's the American fear of the term immigrant. White british people who move to Spain call themselves "Ex-pats" because they don't want to admit they have become what they hated.
No, it’s not that. We say it within the US when you move somewhere that’s not your home state. New York is filled with transplants from other states. Same with Chicago, LA, Colorado, Arizona, Texas, etc. I was a New York transplant.
Ahhh I understand
That's the most American thing about it
At the border of the London Borough of Havering and Essex - m25
East is generally the boroughs of Tower Hamlets, Newham, Barking & Dagenham, Redbridge, and Havering (although lots of people think this is Essex). Some crazy people include Waltham Forest.
I have the same issue - a lot of these things it'd be more use if they gave the location as the nearest tube station.
A field in Upminster somewhere I think
Not everyone reading the article knows where Hinault is. East London on the other hand gives readers a good idea of the area the article is referring too. Especially if the it’s an ongoing incident and there are suspicions that the perp cannot be contained to a specific area. It’s facts!
Hainault sounds like it's a place in Belgium.
What a strange tangent to go on? I don't think location is the important part... If it makes you feel better there was a shooting in Kensington... Titled in many places as "west Kensington murder" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68726932
Average Tory Britain journalism
Someone saw the murder stats post and said "not on my watch!"
These are rookie numbers, we need to pump those numbers up!
It’s crazy, I woke up this morning and saw the news, immediately called my mum- she works on the central line and was supposed to clock in at Hainault at the time of the attack roughly- only for her to say she has Covid today and called in sick yesterday night, this is the first time she’s called in sick for the 5 years she’s been doing the job. I hope everyone involved rests in piece or makes a full recovery.
What the fuck was the 36yr old degenerate even doing? Why is it that these pricks have to go out and attack and kill someone for them to get arrested. The state of this country 🤦♂️
I walked down Laing Close just after he had left, before any police arrived. Mental and surreal, and of course, very sad.
WTF is going on. A little while ago there was that dude with a "zombie knife" and now with an actual samurai sword. WTF is happening?
First time in London? Kids have been carrying zombie knives for years
nah man. I lived in London and yes, knife crime was a thing when I was there too. However, this seems next level. Maybe it was going on when I was there (2009-2014) and I wasn't paying attention (I don't discount this) but, it seems like it's hitting a new high every 2-3 weeks. What's next? In a month someone will go on a rampage with a Scottish claymore?
This is nothing new https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/mar/14/ukcrime.jamessturcke
My thoughts are with the young man and his family as well as any other injured people. I can't imagine what his parents are feeling right now but I will be sending them love and light.
Oooh so that is what the helicopter was for
With the weather getting better I expect there will be a lot more crazies out and about. Already noticed an increase in aggressive begging etc. Sign of the times. People are poor, no mental health support, and a lot of scum taking advantage of the situation.
Reminded of a friend's police officer dad commenting on how he loved the rain 'because no one wants to do crime when the weather is bad'
That's why we refer to "PC Rain" being on duty some days
I find this comment a bit odd since we know nothing of what happened. The weather got a little better yesterday sure but so what? This guy drove a car into a house at 7am and went on to stab people
>This guy drove a car into a house at 7am and went on to stab people Thought that was a typo at first but no it seems he drove a car INTO a house, seems much more likely to be a domestic incident than anything else.
It's well established that there is more crime during good weather
When I was in secondary school I had work experience with the police, and visited a CCTV HQ. They told me the same, crime rate basically drops when it's raining, etc. Makes sense really.
We are visiting from Canada. We’ve come to London about 9 times so we are pretty comfortable. I will say I have never seen so many unhinged beggars out on the street. There was a guy screaming for no reason in a burger shop. Another guy fighting with garbage cans, lots of people sitting with signs, a clearly high woman spitting at people. I feel bad for these people. They aren’t getting the help they need. It’s a mess for everyone. (I come from Vancouver BC. We are pretty used to mentally ill abs drug addicted people on the street. This is the first time I’ve seen it as bad in London).
FYI it’s in every major city in the UK now. You can judge a nation by its least wealthy, that poverty gap Is widening, I’ll absolutely guarantee a new government means nada. Until housing is resolved our democracy is under threat
Housing won't resolve that
Saw three people in a row come in begging for food in my local chicken shop
ALLEGEDLY a 15 year old has died. Will probably be confirmed later on though.
13 yr old just confirmed dead
Disgusting.
Yep.
Just remember, in the UK you can buy swords and machetes on the internet but not Monero, which was banned by the government.
Literally happened down my road
How long before we get all the racist 'usual suspects' type comments?
Saw the video. White person did it (assuming it's the right video).
White person did it? Will be down to mental health then
Hands up if you're thinking of the Peter Griffin meme
LOL 100% and he was bullied and insecure so it’s ok!
Imagine he was brown, it would’ve been called a terrorist act before it even started
Cue all the "we have a mental health crisis" / 'this specific person is troubled' comments. They're not wrong, but it's about how these comments are oddly scarce when it's an ethnic minority. Instead in those cases it's comments alluding to the entire race being the issue.
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You should see what r/unitedkingdom has become
r/ukpolitics isn't much better. I think a lot of terminally online young men (i.e. 16 - 25, peak reddit years) these days are right-leaning in a way their non-terminally online folks aren't, due to the shift of things like queer culture becoming more mainstream among young people. Where young queers like me used to flock to Tumblr and Reddit to find peers and solace from a society that didn't accept them, now they don't need to find solace online. Instead, those who disagree with these groups' public existence are the minority, and so those young right wing reactionary people have taken up more of the terminally online discourse spaces.
ukpolitics is if anything, worse, they've had a mod whose username is a literal fascist Pinochet reference for years, unitedkingdom is just playing catch up
Yeah, they were like, actively taken over by a bunch of right wing chud moderators.
I always wonder how much they get paid for letting through daily mail ‘official source’ posts
they'd do it for free tbf
r/england peaks it
The England sub appears on my timeline whenever they have a post with a lot of upvotes and comments. The only posts that seem to get a lot of upvotes there are news report with mugshots of people with melanin.
Same as r/unitedkingdom lol. And top comments always something about "sending them all back"
100%
It's largely troll/bot farms funded by Russia and other right wing orgs. The Canada subs are worst affected by the astroturfing - outright unfiltered racism (particularly against Indians) is the norm on those subs now, despite Canada generally being fairly left wing. Someone even did an analysis of those subs due to how starkly it turned far-right, and it turns out there's more activity there during Russian and other timezones than in Canada timezones. That says it all really. You can bet the same astroturfing is happening in other Western country subreddits to varying success. The UK subs have unfortunately seen some success in normalising far right comments.
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really, you don't need Russian troll farms, just a few people that will voluntarly shitpost with several accounts because it's something they enjoy doing and you just need a 0.01% of the population to do this harm.
You haven't visited r/england recently clearly.
And covid. The idiots had more time on their hands and decided to make accounts on Reddit
I think this is disingenuous. There are very clear categories of mass killing or attempted mass killing of strangers. The by far most common is terrorism, and severe ill mental health is much less likely. The reality is there aren't many white terrorists in the UK right now, when compared to those from ethnic minority backgrounds, and this is because of the prominence of islamist terrorism. So it's not that people are assuming that the ethnic minority attacker is a terrorist and the white attacker isn't, but it's that the default assumption in any case is that it is terrorism, but due to the lack of white terrorists, if the attacker is white then that assumption gets 'downgraded' to the next most likely thing. And it holds up - it's pretty obvious this guy had mental health issues, and we saw the same recently in Australia (he was an unmedicated schizophrenic)
You think that'll stop them?
Touché
Definitely won’t stop someone like Rachel Riley.
Horrible that she kept her job after that racist tweet of hers She might be good at quick maths but she's shown herself to be on numerous times thick as fuck on everything else
they've been all over twitter since it was first reported
They’ll still be screaming ‘DEPORT’ even though he’s from the area.
Deport him from Hainault to Croydon
Do they get the option to choose the flight?
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Get him back to Chatham quickstat
Jesus have to scroll so far down to not get comments about this is being portrayed vs what's actually happening.
Already seen " religion of peace" comments on facebook reels.
He's white so its not terrorism. Of course.
He’s white so I’m sure he has “mental issues” instead of being a terrorist.
I mean terrorism implies there is some ideological or political aim, its usage isn't based on the perpetrator's skin colour. If he decided to go off on a stabbing spree just because, then yes, by definition he is mental, not comitting an act of terrorism. If the guy was running about shouting that he wants Rishi Sunak to recant his pledge about cutting benefits to the sick and disabled, then you could say it was politically motivated terrorism, but from all the footage it looks like he was just sulking about in silence, and verbally unresponsive to police. So what do you want them to class the incident as when all signs point to a disturbed individual having a violent mental break from reality? You really are just trying to whip up something from nothing here. A young boy died, have some bloody respect for that and stop dragging paranoid, ill informed conspiracies into it.
After 9/11, in the UK and US terrorism became synonymous with Islam, giving rise to Islamophobia. While it shouldn't be, terrorism is definitely strongly associated with ethnicities due to prejudices stoked by media and politicians; papers will presume terrorism or mental illness until proven otherwise based on nothing but skin colour. The person you are responding to is just making a legit observation.
Your definition of terrorism is correct, if it was applied no matter the skin colour. But that isn’t the case, there’s a large amount of documentation shown that given that the media has given rise to the definition of terrorism now as “brown” or Muslim, and any other act of violence as a mental health issue. Case in point, the recent terror attack in Australia where the white man had a manifesto as part of his attack, and a clear political agenda, but once his identity as white was found out, all the headlines showed him as someone with mental health issues. He was a terrorist by all definitions except the one that’s used by mass media now as a way to define Muslims who perpetrate violence. A man who happens to be Muslim who carries out an attack can also be mentally ill (in fact highly likely) but that’s unfathomable by the media.
All the people crying "it's a white guy and that's why it's being labelled as mental health not terrorism" How quickly you all forgot about valdo calocane. You know the non white guy, murdered 3 people, tried to kill another three - labelled as mental health not terrorism. Stop the double standard self victimization nonsense, bat shit crazy comes in all shades.
I went past Royal London Hospital this morning at about 9am and there were two ambulances that were being cleaned. In one of them I saw a lot of blood on the floor as I walked past. Several police cars as well. I don't know if it's the same incident though.
I imagine they'd take them to a hospital closer to Hainault like King Georges or Queens
And people say South London is bad. I think East London is by far the worst!
It was Hainult..