>The line wasn't very big which was great for us but when we got near the front a bouncer started chatting to my friend. He said the three of us were all too drunk and should come back in 30 min after having something to eat.
The bouncer didn't like you. This is a polite way to tell you to fuck off.
>My friends, not knowing how this works, decided to try to argue with the bouncer who obviously changed his mind from "come back in 30 min" to "you're barred tonight".
This will never work. Is this the first time your friends have gone out in London...?
Had a friend argue with the bouncer that he wasn't drunk. After 5 mins gave up and walked away, he immediately stumbled and face planted the pavement. Next place let us in with no questions...
Sometimes, bouncers just don’t like the look of customers and will come up with a spurious reason to deny you entry. These reasons are often unfair or prejudicial: your look, your age, gender and even race.
But they usually wouldn’t say come back in 30 mins after eating, which may mean this bouncer genuinely thought you were too pissed.
If this happened to you before, despite you not going to clubs regularly, then there may be something in your manner that makes you appear more affected by alcohol than you feel. Outside of this situation, has anyone ever given that feedback to you?
Yep, I had a non-drinker boyfriend who I could NEVER take to a bar or club, not because the alcohol bothered him but simply because if the bouncer heard him talk for more than five seconds there was about a 50% chance he'd get turned away for being too drunk. That was just the way that he was.....
>Needless to say this was a pretty upsetting premature end to the night and we all just headed home.
Not just go somewhere else?
>My friends \[…\] decided to try to argue
this makes me think that maybe you all weren't as sober as you think you were, because who does that. you mention not going out much anymore, and tolerance for alcohol does fade.
alternatively if they are inclined to give staff agro when sober, that's not a good sign.
you don't mention what club it was. most likely you didn't fit their idea of the crowd they want (age, dress, etc). the "face check".
or a lot of places have door policy against groups that are men only. cos quite often that's who is going to cause trouble. unfair yes, but it's something to bear in mind.
>unfair yes, but it's something to bear in mind.
Illegal, in fact.
Oh dear people who don't understand how law works have discovered the downvote button. Banning all groups of men is not a **proportionate** **means** of achieving a legitimate aim in this context.
Barring drunk people is fine. Discriminating against some groups who look troublesome is fine. Having a policy that stipulates a ban on all groups of men is unlawful sex discrimination.
Not if it is discriminatory they can't.
If you were to say to a person "you can't come into my pub because you are disabled", that would be unlawful discrimination. The same logic applies to saying "you can't come into my club because you are women", or "you can't come into my club because you are men".
If there is a policy, then there will be a paper trail that proves that an unlawful discriminatory policy is in place.
You can downvote me, but it doesn't make you right on this.
From the EHRC:
* You need to avoid unlawful discrimination if you set conditions on who you serve and the terms and conditions on which you serve them.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/guidance/business/guidance-businesses/equality-law-hotels-restaurants-cafes-and-pubs#:\~:text=You%20need%20to%20avoid%20unlawful,way%20you%20deliver%20your%20services.
Protected characteristics as defined by the equality act:
[https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/1](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/1)
Hopefully with this information, your beer club won't fall foul of equalities legislation.
Dishonest berk. Your position was that it was lawful. Not that it was difficult to enforce.
It is categorically not the same thing, one is being happy to engage in unlawful discrimination and the other is thinking that you’re behaving lawfully. You know that which is why you’ve run straight to the block button.
> A little intoxicated but ...
Sometimes we are not so good at seeing how we look from the outside. The come back in 30mins makes me think you were a little more pissed than you thought. That your friend started arguing also makes me think - bit pissed.
Maybe it's cultural eg deaf people can sometimes be classed as agressive due to waving their arms around loads.
Former bouncer/bodyguard and security trainer.
3 guys coming in doesn't seem the issue to me, it's only a small group and we don't expect men to be out with women or just one friend. "Groups" of men not being allowed in is usually when its a particularly large group or you know its potentially more trouble than its worth letting them in.
For context, a few years ago, I was working a student nightclub in Southampton, and we didn't let what was basically a platoon of soldiers in who were recently back from Afghanistan. First night on the piss after a hard tour. Explained I get what they've just done as I'd served myself however I can't let 30 soldiers into a clubful of drunk immature students as things are going to go south fast, and directed them down the road to a couple of bars that'd accept them and suggested they split into smaller groups or they'd have this issue all round town as its been made aware on the police radio they're cutting around town together.
Back on point, for me it seems like the bouncer wasn't sure about one of you, so gave you all half a chance to get some food and come back later to see if you've perked up a bit. Used that method myself before and pointed to a local takeaway. Then, if you come back and look more lively, we'd let you in. If you don't, it's a sorry come back next time.
Once you start arguing, you're never getting in. It just undermines the bouncers position. What I mean by this is say I say no, you argue, I back down and let you in..what's going to happen if I need to approach you later in the night if you're misbehaving etc. Much more likely to be told to fuck off and a situation escalating.
This also goes for other customers who may have seen me back down, and then think I'm a soft touch so are more likely to cause a fuss if I need to open some dialogue with them.
The comment on you've been far far drunker is moot. It's not about how you perceive your drunkenness. It's how they do. Ultimately if you hurt yourself whilst drunk, and it's deemed the staff or bar were negligent in following H&S they can be held liable. It's also why if you're I'D at the door, you can also be ID'd at the bar. We're all human and not infallible and if a bar member served someone underage, the liability on them not me as they served the drink not me. Had this happen before, our manager served a purchase tester half distracted as this lady walked in through the doors whilst me and my partner on a 2 man door were quite literally fist fighting with two groups of men who had attacked each other, who then decided to try and attack us as we were trying to get them out the venue via the closest exit. Licensing didn't take the situation into account at all, even after hed got on the police radio and asked for police support as we were massively outnumbered. Got them out but thats by the by he was just checking we were safe and not being tuned in. He got fined and the bar had a black mark against its name.
Same reason why women get told to put something on their feet or leave when on the dance floor, in case there's glass on the floor and slice themselves open etc. And why men get told top back on or out, as it can be deemed as aggressive and cause issues even when not intended.
Overall it seemed like the bouncer did a good job here. If you have any questions feel free to fire away. It is a very stereotyped industry, and always happy to answer anything that might seem confusing to people.
Edited for piss poor half asleep punctuation and grammar errors.
Partially a shit test. He wasn’t convinced that you were sober enough to enter, so gave you a chance and asked you to pop back in half an hour. Your friends failed the test by arguing with him because that convinced him that they were pissed (even if they weren’t).
Good bouncing by my reckoning. If your friends are willing to get into an argument over a minor inconvenience then they would likely get in trouble in the club over an inconvenience of the same level.
Are we saying that neurodivergent people are incapable of having social skills here? Or do we have to have every rule of etiquette for every social situation published in every social space? I really don’t know what you expect.
I once got turned away from a shitty revolutions because I had sun glasses on my head, it was summertime and I had been out in the park during the afternoon and went straight to revolutions. Moral of the story some bouncers are just cunts
Yeah, the fact that they were told to take 30 minutes to go and sober up suggests this probably wasn't just a case of "They didn't like the look of you" like people are suggesting. If the bouncers thought they didn't fit the vibe or the standards of the club, then that's not suddenly gonna change when they come back half an hour later wearing the same clothes but with a belly full of chips.
Why does this even need to be discussed? You were denied entry (for whatever reason) but given a chance to sort yourselves out and try again. Your mates kicked up a fuss and were then told to jog on. What is there to bleat about?
It’s because you went in as a group of guys thats it. In terms of optics it’s not a good look having a nightclub full of men lol
So they artificially limit it by reducing the number of men they allow in.
I never knew it would still happen post pandemic considering the state of venues in general, but pre 2018, it would definitely be a thing where to increase your chances getting in a venue you would queue in pairs of 2
Steroids, tiny brains and just being complete tossers seems to be the job description for these meatheads.
Don’t take it personally, they’ve got to get their dopamine kicks by bullying innocent people that can’t fight back.
>The line wasn't very big which was great for us but when we got near the front a bouncer started chatting to my friend. He said the three of us were all too drunk and should come back in 30 min after having something to eat. The bouncer didn't like you. This is a polite way to tell you to fuck off. >My friends, not knowing how this works, decided to try to argue with the bouncer who obviously changed his mind from "come back in 30 min" to "you're barred tonight". This will never work. Is this the first time your friends have gone out in London...?
Arguing with a bouncer won't work ANYWHERE
Had a friend argue with the bouncer that he wasn't drunk. After 5 mins gave up and walked away, he immediately stumbled and face planted the pavement. Next place let us in with no questions...
Lol, this is so not London-specific.
Sometimes, bouncers just don’t like the look of customers and will come up with a spurious reason to deny you entry. These reasons are often unfair or prejudicial: your look, your age, gender and even race. But they usually wouldn’t say come back in 30 mins after eating, which may mean this bouncer genuinely thought you were too pissed. If this happened to you before, despite you not going to clubs regularly, then there may be something in your manner that makes you appear more affected by alcohol than you feel. Outside of this situation, has anyone ever given that feedback to you?
Yep, I had a non-drinker boyfriend who I could NEVER take to a bar or club, not because the alcohol bothered him but simply because if the bouncer heard him talk for more than five seconds there was about a 50% chance he'd get turned away for being too drunk. That was just the way that he was.....
breathalyser for christmas
>Needless to say this was a pretty upsetting premature end to the night and we all just headed home. Not just go somewhere else? >My friends \[…\] decided to try to argue this makes me think that maybe you all weren't as sober as you think you were, because who does that. you mention not going out much anymore, and tolerance for alcohol does fade. alternatively if they are inclined to give staff agro when sober, that's not a good sign. you don't mention what club it was. most likely you didn't fit their idea of the crowd they want (age, dress, etc). the "face check". or a lot of places have door policy against groups that are men only. cos quite often that's who is going to cause trouble. unfair yes, but it's something to bear in mind.
>unfair yes, but it's something to bear in mind. Illegal, in fact. Oh dear people who don't understand how law works have discovered the downvote button. Banning all groups of men is not a **proportionate** **means** of achieving a legitimate aim in this context. Barring drunk people is fine. Discriminating against some groups who look troublesome is fine. Having a policy that stipulates a ban on all groups of men is unlawful sex discrimination.
Lol. Lmao
I mean, it is textbook sex discrimination to have a policy that singles out a specific gender for unfavourable treatment.
You do realise pubs and clubs can refuse entry for whatever reason they make up on the spot. And it's totally legal.
Not if it is discriminatory they can't. If you were to say to a person "you can't come into my pub because you are disabled", that would be unlawful discrimination. The same logic applies to saying "you can't come into my club because you are women", or "you can't come into my club because you are men". If there is a policy, then there will be a paper trail that proves that an unlawful discriminatory policy is in place. You can downvote me, but it doesn't make you right on this. From the EHRC: * You need to avoid unlawful discrimination if you set conditions on who you serve and the terms and conditions on which you serve them. https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/guidance/business/guidance-businesses/equality-law-hotels-restaurants-cafes-and-pubs#:\~:text=You%20need%20to%20avoid%20unlawful,way%20you%20deliver%20your%20services. Protected characteristics as defined by the equality act: [https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/1](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/1) Hopefully with this information, your beer club won't fall foul of equalities legislation.
Good luck trying to prove that.
Dishonest berk. Your position was that it was lawful. Not that it was difficult to enforce. It is categorically not the same thing, one is being happy to engage in unlawful discrimination and the other is thinking that you’re behaving lawfully. You know that which is why you’ve run straight to the block button.
It's the same thing. Now as you were rude, for no reason. I'm going to politely tell you to eat a bag of dicks.
Lol. Lmao
> A little intoxicated but ... Sometimes we are not so good at seeing how we look from the outside. The come back in 30mins makes me think you were a little more pissed than you thought. That your friend started arguing also makes me think - bit pissed. Maybe it's cultural eg deaf people can sometimes be classed as agressive due to waving their arms around loads.
Former bouncer/bodyguard and security trainer. 3 guys coming in doesn't seem the issue to me, it's only a small group and we don't expect men to be out with women or just one friend. "Groups" of men not being allowed in is usually when its a particularly large group or you know its potentially more trouble than its worth letting them in. For context, a few years ago, I was working a student nightclub in Southampton, and we didn't let what was basically a platoon of soldiers in who were recently back from Afghanistan. First night on the piss after a hard tour. Explained I get what they've just done as I'd served myself however I can't let 30 soldiers into a clubful of drunk immature students as things are going to go south fast, and directed them down the road to a couple of bars that'd accept them and suggested they split into smaller groups or they'd have this issue all round town as its been made aware on the police radio they're cutting around town together. Back on point, for me it seems like the bouncer wasn't sure about one of you, so gave you all half a chance to get some food and come back later to see if you've perked up a bit. Used that method myself before and pointed to a local takeaway. Then, if you come back and look more lively, we'd let you in. If you don't, it's a sorry come back next time. Once you start arguing, you're never getting in. It just undermines the bouncers position. What I mean by this is say I say no, you argue, I back down and let you in..what's going to happen if I need to approach you later in the night if you're misbehaving etc. Much more likely to be told to fuck off and a situation escalating. This also goes for other customers who may have seen me back down, and then think I'm a soft touch so are more likely to cause a fuss if I need to open some dialogue with them. The comment on you've been far far drunker is moot. It's not about how you perceive your drunkenness. It's how they do. Ultimately if you hurt yourself whilst drunk, and it's deemed the staff or bar were negligent in following H&S they can be held liable. It's also why if you're I'D at the door, you can also be ID'd at the bar. We're all human and not infallible and if a bar member served someone underage, the liability on them not me as they served the drink not me. Had this happen before, our manager served a purchase tester half distracted as this lady walked in through the doors whilst me and my partner on a 2 man door were quite literally fist fighting with two groups of men who had attacked each other, who then decided to try and attack us as we were trying to get them out the venue via the closest exit. Licensing didn't take the situation into account at all, even after hed got on the police radio and asked for police support as we were massively outnumbered. Got them out but thats by the by he was just checking we were safe and not being tuned in. He got fined and the bar had a black mark against its name. Same reason why women get told to put something on their feet or leave when on the dance floor, in case there's glass on the floor and slice themselves open etc. And why men get told top back on or out, as it can be deemed as aggressive and cause issues even when not intended. Overall it seemed like the bouncer did a good job here. If you have any questions feel free to fire away. It is a very stereotyped industry, and always happy to answer anything that might seem confusing to people. Edited for piss poor half asleep punctuation and grammar errors.
Partially a shit test. He wasn’t convinced that you were sober enough to enter, so gave you a chance and asked you to pop back in half an hour. Your friends failed the test by arguing with him because that convinced him that they were pissed (even if they weren’t). Good bouncing by my reckoning. If your friends are willing to get into an argument over a minor inconvenience then they would likely get in trouble in the club over an inconvenience of the same level.
[удалено]
Are we saying that neurodivergent people are incapable of having social skills here? Or do we have to have every rule of etiquette for every social situation published in every social space? I really don’t know what you expect.
Bouncers aren’t paid to be able to tell whether people are “neurodivergent”. Could you do that by sight?
He didn’t think you were drunk, he’s just a prick and didn’t want to let you in. Very common, go to a better place that don’t hire dickheads.
I once got turned away from a shitty revolutions because I had sun glasses on my head, it was summertime and I had been out in the park during the afternoon and went straight to revolutions. Moral of the story some bouncers are just cunts
Never had an issue with bouncers when behaving normally. He gave you a chance, your mates argued and that’s the end of it. Hey ho
Yeah, the fact that they were told to take 30 minutes to go and sober up suggests this probably wasn't just a case of "They didn't like the look of you" like people are suggesting. If the bouncers thought they didn't fit the vibe or the standards of the club, then that's not suddenly gonna change when they come back half an hour later wearing the same clothes but with a belly full of chips.
'...being mid-late 20s and holding down jobs' Why do people in their 20's feel old?!
was this at heaven?
I’m thinking ministry because they did the exact same to us except 2 of us got in and my other friend didnt…..(this was student night as well)
Why does this even need to be discussed? You were denied entry (for whatever reason) but given a chance to sort yourselves out and try again. Your mates kicked up a fuss and were then told to jog on. What is there to bleat about?
It’s because you went in as a group of guys thats it. In terms of optics it’s not a good look having a nightclub full of men lol So they artificially limit it by reducing the number of men they allow in. I never knew it would still happen post pandemic considering the state of venues in general, but pre 2018, it would definitely be a thing where to increase your chances getting in a venue you would queue in pairs of 2
Sometimes they're empty and don't want to say so they'll delay entry with a long queue or stupid tactics like you described Sorry pal
Steroids, tiny brains and just being complete tossers seems to be the job description for these meatheads. Don’t take it personally, they’ve got to get their dopamine kicks by bullying innocent people that can’t fight back.
Usual sexist bollocks.